Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy Was Never Meant To Be Heard, In Bigger Than The Sound
Long-delayed LP might finally be released ? which means anything is possible.
By James Montgomery
Oct 1 2008


On The Record: W. Axl Rose: The Great Destroyer

There is a passage from Chuck Palahniuk's book "Fight Club" that strikes me as incredibly appropriate this week, given that there is roughly a 60 percent chance that it may actually be prophetic.

"We wanted to blast the world free of history. ... Picture yourself planting radishes and seed potatoes on the 15th green of a forgotten golf course. You'll hunt elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center and dig clams next to the skeleton of the Space Needle leaning at a 45-degree angle. We'll paint the skyscrapers with huge totem faces and goblin tikis, and every evening what's left of mankind will retreat to empty zoos and lock itself in cages as protection against the bears and big cats and wolves that pace and watch us from outside the cage bars at night."

Oh, did you think I was referring to the implosion of our economy, the freefall on Wall Street, the impending sense of doom that looms over us all like a giant, pitch-black penny loafer, or the fact that pretty soon we're going to be left wearing barrels like they did during the Great Depression? No, no, no. I'm actually talking about Guns N' Roses.

(http://www.mtv.com/shared/promoimages/bands/g/gunsnroses/uniqlo_11092006/281x211.jpg)

Or, more specifically, the fact that ? after more than a decade of false starts, empty promises and litigious gymnastics ? GN'R's long-awaited Chinese Democracy album could actually be foisted upon us as early as next month, exclusively at your neighborhood Best Buy.

If the reports are true ? and given that W. Axl Rose is involved, there's a very good chance they might not be ? then Chinese Democracy is coming, and its release would be an event unlike any other in the history of rock music. The sun would be blotted out, the gates of heaven would open, and we'd all be reduced to grunting, screaming primates. It would be like every bank in the United States failing simultaneously, only more so, because it would involve die-hard Guns N' Roses fans getting drunk in Best Buy parking lots at midnight. It would reset the clock, empty the reservoirs, crumble the towers. It would be rock-and-roll Year Zero (which is not to be confused with Nine Inch Nails' Year Zero.

This is because Chinese Democracy was never supposed to happen. It was destined to be the eternal punch line, a $13 million albatross and an ongoing testament to the will, ego and insanity of Axl Rose. There is perhaps no rock-and-roll album as starstruck or anticipated in history ? eternally promoted by disastrous world tours, tinkered with by no less that five producers and featuring contributions from God-knows-how-many musicians. Democracy has been in the works since at least 1998, victimized by infinite false starts (the industrial mess of "Oh My God," featured in the industrial-size mess that was Arnold Schwarzenegger's "End of Days," Rose's winded performance at the 2004 Video Music Awards, Buckethead) and promised (threatened?) to be released more times than I care to recall. (Resident metalhead Chris Harris attempted to do so in a blog post earlier this year.) It's become a FEMA-level catastrophe at this point, and the fact that the entire saga has played out before our eyes only makes its actual conclusion seem all the more improbable. This is an album that we were supposed to speculate about, snicker at but never ? ever ? hear. This just wasn't supposed to happen.

But now, apparently, it is. And frankly, I'm not sure if we're prepared. If and when the first crate of Democracy is opened in a Best Buy storeroom, it'll represent the moment when all bets are off, when anything can happen, music-wise. Will it come bundled with a copy of Dr. Dre's long-delayed Detox album? Will it inspire My Bloody Valentine or the Pixies to drop new albums? After Democracy, will we finally get to hear Pink Floyd's Household Objects or the Who's Lifehouse? The answer to any of those questions might very well be "yes," if only because, like Democracy, no one really believed any of those albums would see the light of day either. In short, it would be entirely possible that we would never not hear anything ever again.

And when it has finally moved from the storeroom to the shelves, will there be mass chaos? When GN'R fans ? half-crazed with anticipation, half-dazed from spending the past 48 hours sleeping in line outside an electronics retailer ? actually catch a glimpse of the album, will they summarily combust? And are we prepared, in these darkest of times (I'm speaking in terms of the music industry, not Wall Street), for an album that's unlike any this decade? It could be an honest-to-goodness event, a surefire blockbuster that will cause music fans to behave like music fans, cueing up for midnight sales, throwing the album on in their cars, celebrating the release of a dozen or so pieces of recorded music. We will be transformed into savage rock-and-roll animals. Again, this isn't supposed to happen.

Oh, and about those pieces of recorded music. They're insignificant in all this, because really, there is absolutely no way that anyone is going to be happy with the content of Chinese Democracy. It's just not going to happen. Anticipation is too high, we've lost a little bit of faith in the all-knowing Axl, and to be honest, the stuff we've heard from the album (none of which, to be fair, might actually be on the album) has been spotty, to say the least. The exception to this is, of course, "Shackler's Revenge," the just-released (via "Rock Band 2") track that is most certainly on the album, and in addition to having a title that reminds me of a National Lampoon film, is also pretty terrible. (OK, it's really terrible.)

But again, none of that matters, because people are still going to buy the ever-loving crap out of Chinese Democracy, even though they know they're ultimately going to end up disappointed. They will be strangely compelled to do so, if only because, well, they have to buy it. Likewise, critics will slay the album, because that's their job, but they will do so knowing that nothing they write will matter in any way, shape or form. None of this has ever happened before. Nothing will be the same ever again.

After typing that last sentence, I got so freaked out that I hid underneath my desk for a good 20 minutes. Eventually, I mustered up the courage to uncurl myself from the fetal position, climb back up into my chair and re-read everything I've written so far. And here's what struck me more than anything: Basically everything I've written about Chinese Democracy is interchangeable with this country's current economic collapse. The idea of the album being released once seemed as impossible as banks failing or massive, multinational brokerage firms filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, yet both are happening. The results of both are relatively terrifying, if only because they mean that, really, nothing is certain anymore. Both involve large sums of money and ego being handled irresponsibly. And both ? be it the sinking feeling that Democracy will be rather bad or the proposed $700 billion bailout currently flailing on Capitol Hill ? are accompanied by some rather unpleasant side effects. Also, after our economy disintegrates, it's entirely possible that China might actually buy us, creating an actual Chinese democracy. Marinate on that.

And all of that either proves that Axl Rose is: A) a genius; B) a prognosticator; or C) the rock-and-roll version of T. Boone Pickens, because he's seemingly omnipresent, insanely wealthy, kind of creepy and is trying to pitch you something that seems legit, except you can't shake the lingering feeling that you're being conned, because, well, the dude's an oil baron (you know, that and his ties to the whole Swift Boat thing). Either way, he's terrifying. He's going to bring society to its knees. He's going to change the world forever.

Get your barrels ready. Chinese Democracy could be right around the corner.

Questions? Concerns? Comments? E-mail me at BTTS@MTVStaff.com.


Source: MTV (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1595991/20080930/guns_n_roses.jhtml)

The line about getting wasted in Best Buy parking lot's pretty funny

I have to question the logic of recording music, playing it live but never intending to release it.....

Isn't it funny how the media likes to twist things around?

For years they were the ones making the jokes about the album never coming out. Now when it is coming out, their tune has changed to "it was never meant to come out".

 :hihi:





That's true.

Considering the person who wrote this blog entry is part of that group......





/jarmo

And yet.....it's probably what will happen.

I can tell you this:  I intend to go to the closest Best Buy doing a midnight opening (if any) and party my brains out that night waiting.  I'm not sure about "wasted"....but certainly partying.   I'm 34 years old....wife and 3 kids.  If the album inspires me in that direction, I'm thinking it might do the same amongst some other fans. :)

Hopefully, they'll do a pre-order on the album, so we can all ensure we'll get one that night and we won't have to actually wait "in line" to ensure it.  That will make the party all that much better......

See, I don't think the author (for all his foibles) means: "Axl recorded music and never intended to release it".

I think he means "Releasing CD is akin to the sun exploding...it's something everyone knows is possilble, but nobody actually expects to happen".

Edit: And we KNOW there are a number of people who feel/felt that way....you can see it evidenced in many of the posts on this board.  I know...many didn't/don't (me being among them), but I think you'd find that a slew of people outside the GnR fandom world felt/feel that way....

I know what he meant.

But still.

It's like the "joke" changed.


The whole "it wasn't supposed to happen" attitude.....

Brings to mind the old saying "he who laughs last....".



/jarmo

Envy, jelousy and fear.... this article is rank with it!!

 :hihi:

I went to middle school and high school and college with the author of this article.

It's the same old James who likes being a smartass to provoke a reaction.  Having known him personally, I don't think James would do anything than jump on the bandwagon and bash Axl and GN'R just to be smartass.  He proved me right with this article.  Don't pay any attention to him.  He never liked GN'R during their heyday.

Ali

Sorry, I should have quoted it...I was really responding to "Blowupyourvideo"'s post.

Talking of shit that's "not supposed to happen".

Is MTV gonna start playing MUSIC?





/jarmo

Nahhhh.....why would they do that???

:)

We have about 4 or 5 different MTV/VH1 channels that actually play MUSIC VIDEOS, each it's own specific "category" (country, rock, top 40, etc).  But I can't REMEMBER the last time I saw a video on VH1 or MTV....now it's all cluttered with bad reality TV.  Sorta sad, eh?

MTV in Sweden still plays some music. Just during the night....  :hihi:

VH1 Europe is still playing music.

MTV2 Europe is still mostly dedicated to new music, alternative and rock....





/jarmo

MTV??   

 isnt that the girly channel with "take my wreck of a car an paint it then give it me back with the same 7 year old oil in it"

 and "my 16 year old daughter is a spoilt little brat so we got her a unicorn for her birthday to keep her feet on the ground"

promised (threatened?) to be released more times than I care to recall.

name one time it was promised (excluding the TENTATIVE release date)

At which point you could have done us all a favour and discovered what the delete button was for.   : ok:

I have one vacation day remaining for the rest of the year, and it is reserved for just this occasion!

Is it coming out,(for sure)...?

Fuck what he said, nobody's gonna care what any of them say anway.  We're (the fans) gonna be happy as hell when that day comes.  Besides I remember Axl saying its just an album, nothing more and nothing less, to not put your life on hold for it. 

You think Axl and the band didn't intend for the music to be released?

Really?




/jarmo

I think he meant if the album is really coming out soon (this year)...

No, but you sound like its coming out now...

Until I hear otherwise, my attitude is the same as it was in January.

This is the year.





/jarmo

Exactly. :)

I can picture once this album is out and whirlwind of people will wanna talk to Axl.  Asking questions probaly some stupid one's like I thought you would never put this record out what made you change your mind ? ect just what the media does they lambast you one minute and then whe something big happens or comes out they wanna talk to you.  Either way what im saying has probaly been said before, With hearing what we have heard regarding new material I think alot of people will be surprised and shock by the new sound of Guns N' Roses.  Im getting ready cause this is gonna be one helluva ride and it makes it just more sweet being behind this band and album since day one.

The guy who wrote this pile of crap is a tool...first he got the VMA year wrong, it was 2002 not 2004, and work on "Democracy" started before '98...when I saw that I almost stopped reading because he didnt even bother to fact check the easy shit...and what is that nonsense about "Shacklers" being a terrible song?  It is a great song...Axl told Kurt Loder in 1999 that "we are not working on all this to keep it buried" and in 2002 "YOU"LL SEE IT, i dont know if soon in the word" and this douche is telling us how the record was never actually supposed to come out....moron....but hey its MTV what do you expect...

Of course.

All the magazines, newspapers, radio/TV channels and web sites that have been writing shit for all this time will want to talk to him.





/jarmo

Yeah a pre-order is probably a safe bet. Otherwise if they run out of copies the angry drunks might start a riot!

If I were Axl and I faced such diatribes and hate from what  should be an enthusiastic source, or at least neutral, I would not be in a hurry either. MTV in the US is a shadow of what  it was meant to be.

Fuck any and all 'future reviews' of the album - they were written YEARS ago anyways. I'm no axl-nutswinger but the critics always wanna bring the man down for whatever reason. This album could be the best body of musical material ever recorded and people will still find faults with it. If not with 'it' with the fact it took long, it cost alot, it isn't 'guns n roses' and all that garbage.

My advice is this - go buy the album when you can, judge it for yourself. Hopefully you will enjoy it and it will be worth the wait - if not, move on and find something else.

DON'T be swayed by some schmuck in an office sitting behind a laptop with an agenda (a a text document written 5 years ago)

Democracy starts really soon, good time to be a real fan of Axl and GNR!!

Peace friends.  :peace:

p.s. be prepared for some really shocking 'surprises' when this album drops - a few twists in the road awaits.  :beer:

Alright, Mr. Saul.  You can't leave on that last line and not elaborate :)

Does one of those twists have to do with a certain Bucket-headed one?

Ali

I know it was a bash, but that article really made me laugh out loud.  The whole CD thing really has been something that the masses never expected to come out.  First thing people ask me when I mention that I'm a big GNR fan is "Ok, when is CD gonna be released" forcing me to facepalm.


I can't wait for the whole circus that's going to happen with the damn thing is finally released.  Like always before, I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the ride, but this time I'll have MUSIC to listen to  :peace:

Is MTV even relevant anymore? Back in the heyday of MTV, GnR was king. Now, they mock Axl? Sure, perhaps I'm a little longer in the tooth than some other people here (I was a senior in high school when the Illusions came out, for time reference), but MTV is absolutely useless. Where is the "M" in MTV? I thought I was so out of touch when I couldn't relate to MTV anymore, figured it was that out of school and getting a real job and responsibilities thing. Then I started watching FUSE and tune into sirius radio. I suddenly realized that it wasn't me out of touch with things, it was just MTV dragging everything down with its own sense of self proclaimed hip-ness and crappy reality TV. GnR were MTV's bread and butter for a good stretch, they got me to tune in. I'll be on line for Chinese Democracy, and I just may even get drunk in the parking lot for shits and giggles (if I don't have to work the next day  :hihi: ).

I may or may not have laughed at some parts of that article  :-[ whatever! GN'R fans ARE crazy  :hihi:

this piece was really annoying to read.

but one thing hit me...with the financial crisis going on in the U.S. right now, the environment is similar to that of 1987 when AFD was released. it's kinda ironic.

"There is perhaps no rock-and-roll album as starstruck or anticipated in history ? eternally promoted by disastrous world tours"

Obviously this a-hole hasn't been to a show in the past several years, which have been anything but disastrous......They are still the greatest rock band of all time and the shows are mind blowing.

Do you think it's required to know what you're talking about before writing articles on MTV.com?

 :hihi:





/jarmo

FUCK THE HATERS......

everyones coming out of the woodwork now its close to getting released, all these so called stories hitting the web and stirring shit for the sake of stirring shit....I dont know what bothers me more, the stories or the amount of fans that suck it all in

GET IN THE RING MUTHERFUCKERS

The only requirement is for you to be a straight-out-of college,Starbucks' drinking, liberal with a bone to pick. Knowledge of music or the music business is not what Music Television (MTV) is about or is known for...

Coming from the same people that gave Flavor Flav and Hulk Hogan TV shows.

I know for a fact the guy that wrote this article never went and saw the old lineup of GN'R and I'd be willing to bet he hasn't seen the new lineup.  I don't think there's any doubt that he has no idea about the live experience of GN'R.  Having said that, he's just trying to provoke a reaction.

Ali

I liked the Flavor Flav show.  :hihi:

I'd like to think band is prepared for the crap that follows the release.. It's envitable that music journalists and radio-dj:s will bash Chinese Democracy when it's released. Every fan can imagine those "for this they worked so long ?"-comments.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS ALBUM SMASH THE CHARTS AND SAY FUCK YOU TO THOSE SMART-ASSES  :)

This is just another empty headed 'teaser'...obviously not a lot of thought or effort went into it.  Sadly, the deuche who wrote it probably gets paid more than 90% of us, to burn one, and write stream of thought nonsense.

HAHAHA  Good point. :rofl:

this guy is a grade A tool.....however i think it is indicative of what the review in a lot of magazines will be. At least the guy is smart enough to know that his opinion counts for nothing with the music buying public.

on a different note, i think the only magazine/ journo's that want axl to succeed is Classic Rock. almost everythng they print about axl is positive. They reviewed the leak and gave everything big thumbs up, saying they couldn't wait for the album......let's hope that sort of sentiment catches on

The title is just so stupid, I'm not even going to read that. 

Might be a good time for Axl to be a little more open to VH1--lol.

MTV..........suckas of satans cock!!

No wonder MTV are a joke now

The writer didn't even know that GNR played on the 2002 VMA's.

Plus, we have probably 25 posters on THIS forum alone who are better writers than this so called "Professional"


Shackler's is terrible?

HOW u figure that?

Where is Kurt Loder when you need him? lol. 

I stopped paying attention to MTV, VH1 and the rest of that garbage a long time ago. Not worth it.

First they were saying "it's never coming out".
Now they're saying "it was never meant to come out".

works behind the scenes now. he's too "old" i guess. he does voice overs and hosts thru voice... he does movie reviews lol...

I barely remember buying the double UYI, late night, years ago. We walked from out apartment, down to the mall which was maybe a mile  away. We actually picked up the cassette tapes (as opposed to CDs) if I remember.

Drinking beer, looking at the tape player, and listening....

aside from the obvious bias against gnr i thought the article was very well written

Sorry, maybe it?s a stupid question but I?m not around here anymore like I used to be in the past 10 years or so ...

this Nov. 25 is for real? We?ve got the release date?

Shackler?s Revenge and If The World will be on the album?

Thank you!

No date has been announced officially yet.


Very likely.



/jarmo

Thank you Jarmo.

Show me one link if my next question is already answered, but why this date Nov. 25? Rolling Stone said Nov. 25 based on what?

thanks!

I think that rumored date comes from Best Buy.






/jarmo

Maybe if Guns puts out a music video they'll make an exception? Could be like '87 with Jungle all over again.

Hang in there G&R camp. It will come.........have a little faith........ :beer:

So, english is not my first language, can someone give me a summary of this?

Lots of bashing + Comparisons of Chinese Democracy to the failing U.S. economy.

The MTV way  :hihi:

Agreed!  :)

Between my girlfriend and me. She's the one watching MTV, though I'm the one who's most fan of music. She watches The Hills and Laguna High or whatever it's called...

I think the press/critics are sort of in the dark as to what their role in the music industry is these days. I used to be the manager at a recordstore in Norway, and remember the days when people who worked at recordstores and music-critics in the press were the ones that heard "the new stuff" before anybody else. With private listening-parties, free beer and the promo-CD's.
These days the internet seems to have shifted that. Now any kid with a laptop knows what the next big release sounds like before it hit the shelves.

So it seems like some critics/journalists have a hard time grasping what the hell is going on in the world of GN'R. You got respected sites/magazines reporting what the word is on the different fan-forums. And considering Axl's "love" for the media, ("I'll pay VH1 2 million dollars to leave me the fuck alone"), I can only imagine them going: "What??! Chinese Democracy is getting ready for release? What the hell are we gonna do? What? The songs sounds amazing?  :nervous:

For me, and I guess for many of you, the next events to unfold will be interesting......   :beer:

So true. Their other pronouncement through the years (although moreso in the mid to late 90's) was that Kurt Cobain and grunge had killed Guns N' Roses to such an extent that it was irrelevant whether another GN'R album would come out b/c no one would buy it. They now foresee the huge sales potential of this album and are forced to spin the story that we're all crazed sub-humans looking for a nostalgia trip and that the music will actually suck- irregardless of the sales numbers. It really is rather embarrassing at this point.

BTW: I predict Chinese Democracy gets quite a few positive reviews.

This article was longer than one my posts not to mention boring as shit. I could not even finish it. Nothing substantive.

MTV is such a piece of crap now. My friend bought an old 80's videos DVD and we watched them for a little while the other day. Although they were dated and a little cheesy, it was still pretty cool to see the messages artists were trying to convey through their music. It reminded me of the purpose of videos... putting a visual to the song.  No one did it better than GNR in the heyday. Everyone believes songs have certain meanings, but I think it is really cool when musicians make videos to show their fans how they see the song or how they want a message to be perceived.

I do not understand why MTV cannot have a channel designated for videos only. Initially that was the purpose of MTV2. Then they just started putting all their crappy reality shows. I am sure their ratings would still be more or less the same. The reason people initially tuned into MTV was for MUSIC VIDEOS anyways.

I remeber MTV's slogan used to be... "I got to have my MTV," I cannot recall the last time someone spoke positive about MTV. They are obviously still making money, but it is just lame. I think the only time I watch that channel is to watch Cribs...  or the MTV awards which have also been pretty shitty lately. This channel used to be so ground breaking and innovative now they are just boring. Even when they try to do something cool it comes off as cheesy or gimmicky and people see right through it.

This guy rambles bullshit for 1,000 words and they post it. I remain unimpressed by MTV.

I thought it was funny he said critic will trash the album because that's their job. I thought there job was to evaluate music and give an honest opinion of it. I didn?t think a critics job was to look at how long an album has taken to make, how much they dislike the group or how much the global economy is taking a dump. I thought they were supposed to listen, evaluate and give an opinion on THE MUSIC, not the politics surrounding it. But that?s just me ...

I have whined about the same kinds of things as far as the false starts and such, but I'm not a music critic. I'm just a dumbass fan on a message board. People actually listen to critics ... or do they?

I am loving it how everyone who said this album will never see the light of day etc are now backpeddling like fuck and the best part is that it wont matter, there gonna have a wall between GN'R and the fans, there will be able to look but won't able to touch, so goodbye fuckers ! I am gonna enjoy watching the record labels go down the pan !  8) :beer:

ROUND 2  :D
 
:peace:

I think the guy is just pissed because Axl is really a genius! He even hints at it towards the end of the article. Seriously, people will buy this disc just because they are going to want to hear how it sounds after all this time. Axl has created that mystique regardless if you are a fan or not. That is a stroke of genius!

All the bitchin, complaining, etc...the guy is really a genius IMO. And I don't give a shit what anyone says, writes, or feels, I'm going to celebrate and use my hard earned money to purchase the disc and anything else Axl cares to put out. I am my own critic and hardly conform to society.

The press, music magazines, MTV etc etc can insult Axl, slam the new band, rip apart the new album as much as they want. They are amusing themselves. They are imbeciles who are too stupid to get a decent job so that's how they make their living - 'writing' about others.

It doesn't matter if the majority of the world are suckers and buy the garbage from their mouth.

When the album comes out, we will get what we have waited for, and we'll be able to enjoy it for the rest of our lives.

They will still be bitching and moaning and bitter about the past.

The music world currently is in a really sorry and pathetic state. I've lost my faith in music over the last number of years.

I have only kept faith in GNR, and I know they will deliver. They will deliver FOR ME. What anybody else says or thinks about it doesn't mean shit.

Axl is an artist, one we have all admired. He has captured the imagination and won the hearts of thousands of people across the world aswell as provoke controversy, rumours about this and that. He's recruited a whole new band and recorded a whole bunch of new material. Love him or hate him, it doesn't matter. He's about to give us an album of work that's gonna sell sell sell and no matter what the critics say, I know all the true GnR fans are gonna love it! Music doesn't have to sound commercial to do well. Axl has a mega fanbase and we want to hear his music. I'm so looking forward to this day. I reckon we'll be hearing news of another album being released within a year of Chinese Democracy

Latest fair and objective review of unreleased Gn'R album (completely made up of course):

"Axl Rose sucks according to an anonymous source, his hair is braided itself after a voodo curse was placed on him, his album, which we have been waiting to rip on, is almost entirely taken up with fart noises, animal screeches, and what sounds like snapping a handful of spaghetti according to what we have heard on youtube.  The artwork was drawn by mentally challenged arangutans according to Judy from the psychic friends network.  I say this as I look in the mirror, and touch myself...I long for dirty sweat socks, and real talent like Britney Spears and P.Diddy.  Life is a weed, weed is life.  Gore in '04!!!"

Remember any idiot can get online and write down his thoughts...reality based or not.  MTV, NME, etc, just seem to pay a large number of these idiots to do so.

Personally, I thought the article was pretty tongue-in-cheek funny!!