Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Just curious really,(< - nah that bullshit, I have an agenda) how many  posts are disappearing from the forums these days?
Like 100/day? 200/day? Or what?

It's just..beyond very strange, how extremely fucking hard it is, to have an opinion or a point of a view that differs from what Jarmo(or some other  deletion happy mod)has without it fucking vanishing nowdays!:(

This  just isn't right man. This level of control over WHAT PEOPLE CAN SAY  isn't what a forum should be about.
" My forum!! i run it the way i like it. if You don't like it, you  go away!"
Yeah right cool great thats true  but guess what, this level of control still isn't about what a forum should be about.
I fully realize this is about as worn out thing to say as a " u are no real fan11! is, but..really!

It's impossible to have a discussion about  most things GNR related here, unless  your post is  some sort of  verbal equivalent of  : ok: : ok: : ok: : ok: :
That's only thing allowed in here now, right? Opinions criticizing band, fan community or anything  even in slight fashion just vanish.
It doesn't really matter  what sort of critization this is, how it is put, what tone it has or how called for it might be,  it just, by default,  doesn't have a good change to survive.

Why allow people post at all?
Leave only birthday thread open and just fill rest of the threads yourself maybe?  There's only so many ways you can dress  : ok: : ok: : ok: : ok: : ok: into  words anyway.
That way,you guys would be saved from the trouble of having to moderate.

The current, absurd level of control just paralyzes the change of real  discussion about most  Gnr related things to take place.
You simply aren't  allowed to voice certain opinnions, so opinnions don't get exchanged here anymore.
Real conversation would require various points of views to be available. They aren't.
You are free to choose between  : ok: : ok: : ok: : ok: : ok: and  : ok: : ok: : ok:. that's about it.
Thats a climate where very quickly  it starts to take some serious creativity to manage to say something that anyone would find meanigfull.

That just isn't right man.

Please tone it down.

 :'( :'(

a lot of the posts that are deleted are talking about the leaks

Not whining about that here, even.
But but, since you brought it up...
...sure, that is annoying too, to 100% disallow people to talk about the leaks in any way. That is also a decision I can fully understand though.

It's not the issue here. This place making it so fucking difficult to have a meaningfull  conversation is.

Do you have a gun to your head which forces you to be here? Thought so....

When you're so called meaningful discussions revolve around topics we don't discuss, what do you expect?

The fact that you're trying to smart ass about it doesn't really help your case.





/jarmo

ok ;)

Shacklers revenge has been released. How the hell does a post mentioning it surely being out there in illegal form aswell  remain a nono-topic?
Also...that was kinda the point I had. Topics we dont discuss. Don't you think theres starting to be little too much of them?
really, honestly, there isn't much moving space left in GNR section of this forum. So much is a nono.
 

Yeah your idea that people needed to post pictures of them with Rock Band 2 in order to prove that they bought the game.

That doesn't seem like a smart ass remark at all.



Do you honestly think that we don't get what you're trying to do funny guy?

Maybe it works with the Manson fans....




/jarmo

Yeah I thought that was a fun idea for a thread :hihi: Too bad you didnt agree.
Light hearted bullshit usually does more good than harm Imho.
It's not deletion of that thread that ignited this whine though, but serious as-well-put-and-flame-free-as-possible opinnions in the Shackler thread jut vanishing for no plausible reason
.

You don't get enough attention?



/jarmo

You read me like an open book man.
What other reason would there be, to post thread or a post, than attempting to really get my name out there and get even tiny sparkles of precious online attention i so grave?
Of course only thing I find to be wrong about fuckload of posts getting deleted, is the refusal to the access of this precious  attention.

You forgot to add some smileys for the sake of sarcasm.


It seems like many of you confuse a fan forum with the Airing of Grievances during Festivus....


/jarmo

I would pay to see a Feats of Strength challenge right now.

CheapJon has the tape recorder all set to go.

Man get over it! Running a clean good forum requires moderation of posts that dont contribute shit all. Don't argue with the moderation! There is a reason that this forum has so many members and is so succesful - not the fancy layout, not the catchy website name - but primarily the way they are run and moderated. When you start a forum where people moan and bitch about their job and it gets more hits then heretodaygonetohell, then come and patronise the moderators and tell them how to run a forum.

Until then, either start ur own no-rules site, go to mygnr or suck a cows udder. I dont care. Nobody is going to change the site because one guy made a post about elephants and it got deleted.

^

actually I think this forum is successful strictly because of the color scheme.

if it werent for the shades of grey complimenting the deep red writing, I would have packed my shit and left long ago.

god I love the colors

whoever is responsible for the art direction of this website should recieve a medal because it is simply genius.

right on  : ok:

Many come here for the reason that the level of discussion and the tone here are diferent than Blabbermouth for example. ;)

Problem here is that the magical device used when determining what does or does not "contribute shit at all" is in dire need of re calibration, imo.

It has moved away from deleting "useless" and stupid posts and posts dealing with topics that for whatever reason  are " no no " here, and moved too close to deleting perfectly reasonable posts just because opinnions stated aren't what moderator agrees with  on personal level. Thats fucked up.

Good, clean forum"?
That sounds so fucking depressing you know:)
What the hell is a clean forum?
A dream place where there are do arguments, no negative points of view and everyone always agrees about everything?
A place where you have to stop for 5 minutes before  clicking post-button, to consider "gee, mayhap i better not post this. It could be that someone might disagree or get upset or find this negative!"?
A place with 100 threads filled with 10k posts of nothing but  : ok: : ok: : ok:  -ringjerk?
Where the fuck would be the value in reading a forum that disallows people from acting like people?

"Good clean forum" sounds a lot like a very  hostile environment for finding good conversation you know.
I'm betting a year's supply of  : ok:-smileys that huge amount of most entertaining and insightful posts/points/whatever you've read on internet forums have been posted because there has been some sort of ongoing argument going?

Wow, you just posted the famed end-of-it-all paragraph that makes any and all criticism about anything useless or unjustified. Good job  I guess.

"Oh you don't like Britney Spears? Let's see YOU sing and dance and create pop musica hits loved by millions of 12 year olds. Until you do, don't tell her how to do her job. Besides you can always switch the channel"
"Oh so you don't like the decisions of current adminstration? Well why don't u start your own country, lulz!"
...and so on.
It doesn't require a climb to mount everest to buy you a right to bitch about stuff you disagree with.

Yees the outlook of the site as a whole is brilliant.
And banner free :love:

True, but there's a lot more than just that.    LeftToDecay has a very good point, actually.   I don't think he's being a smart ass or a whiner.  There's a lot of truth to what he said.   

well I personally love to read hilarious knowitall posts for future fun. :hihi:

You know, if you don't like it:

www.mygnrforum.com
www.chinesedemocracy.com
www.newgnr.com

Yeah a couple months ago when Tommy's daughter was born I said that the name they gave her was awful...can't even remember what the name was but it was bad....and for some reason that got deleted. I thought that was a little extreme, not being able to critique the kids name...I didn't think it was a big deal or get mad about it but it def. didn't have anything to do with any kind of leakand it's not like I was vicious or anything.

Well, I think it's pretty fucking rude to insult a newborn child's name.

I think people should decide themself if or what part of their private life to be subject of publicity.

Leaving their children, family and private life out of this is a good and respectable thing.
This sickening western "Journalism" isn't.

I agree moderation is too non-objective at times tho.

I really don't think the kid is on any message boards and that fellulah, or whatever punishment of a name they gave the kid, won't care. But you're right....it's much better having a 9 page thread where people say nothing but "wow tommy that's rad, congratulations" over and over again.

Some people just don't get it....




/jarmo

It's a child's name, have a little bit more respect when it comes to stuff like that.

Why is a childs name something to be reverennt about? It's not like I attacked the kids religion or nationality, that would be disrespectful. If someone said they didn't like the name I chose for my kid I wouldn't think of it as disrespectful...you need to lay off the kool aid.

Well. Not according to ol' Richard Dawkins...

Im, just reading this , and thinking, wow at least you didn't add source to that list. THANKS! I'm just laughing.

I gotta agree with Dawkins.  Superstitious people leave themselves open. 

Hey look. You offered your opinion like 30 times. Nobody gives a fuck. Go somewhere else if you don't like it here! When everybody starts leaving Heretodaygonetohell, then jarmo might change the way he moderates.


No you moron. You don't have any understanding of how a forum works, yet your making reccomendations on how it should be run. It's like if you told britneys spears how to do a vibrato, or dance technically correct. You don't know shit, you CAN'T bitch about that and expect to be heard. If you say - I think britney is a fake bitch, thats okay because you understand fakeness, or if you think shes ugly because you understand good looking and ugly looking. It would be like trying to tell somebody that inflation is good if you don't understand economics. I hate people like you! You're too egotistical to see past yourself and your own opinion.

And furthermore, if jarmo doesnt like something he can do what the fuck he wants. He will suffer the punishment; people will start using other forums + hate him. That hasnt happened so go away.

Let me explain a little of what you don't understand, because im an awesome know it all who once ran a forum - i don't nescessarily agree that insulting kids names and shit is offensive or should be deleted - but if somebody is going to be offended by it its better to piss 1 person off (you) by deleting it, then 4 potential people out of the 1000000 that are here. Obviously you have to draw a line somewhere, and whoevers drawing that line is doing a good job (see number of members).
Gome now bizatch

Other than remembering to tell me I'm a moron who doesn't understand how a forum works, you are basically just repeating your previous  post all over again.
So if you wanna keep our little exchange going please read my previous post again, but this time add an amazing opening there about  you being an idiot who doesn't understand how a human mind works.

It's pretty cool that a mighty ex-forum runner calls someone "too egotistical  to see past yourself and your own opinion." while being busy stating, with a straight face no less,  that people who aren't owners of given forum should STFU instead of criticizing the aspects of it they don't like.

Some tight asses around here, huh? This is hilarious; people getting insulted because someone said he doesn't like Tommy's daughter's name. If it really offends someone that bad, I recommend some therapy of some kind.

"Have some respect here, IT'S JUST A CHILD!"

^

why the fuck would you critique a childs name?

its not your kid, be happy for the person and move on. nobody gives a fuck if you dont like the name :confused:

Well I think this thread is a nice proof of how people really do give a fuck. I can't see why. As you said; it's not your kid. Does it really hurt you if someone says "I really don't like the name of that girl". Well boohoo and good luck with the rest of your life, it can't be very easy if this hurts you.

Throwing in my two cents: deleting a comment that was a little bit "rude" in someone's eyes seems a bit extreme... people don't all share the same opinion and it sounds like Where's Izzy wasn't even being malicious or trolling/etc.  It's an internet forum, just how they roll. You can have a respectable good forum without censoring posts...

Then again, the mods have always said, if you don't wanna be here you can go. Which is legitimate.

Nice, lump in my argument that owned you and speficially addressed and replied to your last post with my previous argument that you couldnt rebutt. Soild man. True arguing.

Oh and look at you. You can't attack the argument so you attack the arguer, on a point irrelevant to the argument. I called you egotistical in passing and now its 60% of your reply? Did it hurt?
Look, you can say you don't LIKE something. But don't go criticisizing or suggesting changes about things you don't understand. I don't like britney, but I don't ask her to change because I don't understand her. Instead, I listen to slash. So go to some other site douchebag.

Oh you would rather have me addressing something other than your"personal slur+argument+personal slur+ i win"- way of getting anything said?
If so...you need to try a little harder:

You base your entire argument on assumption that guy you are arguing with " doesn't understand how a forum works"
Not this particular forum, but a forum. Thats the long and short of your " i win!" post right there.
That's the entire frame work you got when "speficially adresing and replying" to my post:P

Then when I don't bother giving a proper reply to that you enter the "I PAWN JOO NOOB" mode, and you  proceed to dissing !!MY!! way of arguing?
That's equivalent to posting a picture of a pile of pubic hair in some random thread and then calling everyone idiots cause they don't adress your point.The point being a pile of pubic hair.

Next time, try posting even twice to a thread  you disagree with before starting to mention how you are PWNING people and winning in every post you make. It's like getting a free credibility boost.

Oh, and you are asking if someone you assume is egotistical got hurt by you callin him egotistical. Seriously?:P

That' a very immortal thing  to say really :)
Also,
You feel it's ok to settle with being totally unconstructive and just  yelling "I Don't Like This!!" from bushes randomly, instead of "I don't like this. Actually it annoyes me. Let me try to explain why!""Seriously?


If it so pleases you:
I am very sorry sir, but iI feel like  I do understand how a forum works, and I dont plan to go away. When it comes to your 4 out of 100000 -insights, pls check reply #18. Why the fuck do you keep writing posts that you feel should be deleted by the way? There is a change that I ight get ever so insulted by "moron" and whatnot!
You happy now? Oh my fucking god, I tore your argument to pieces right there. I both PWN and win so much that it just gave me an erection.

Why the fuck not?

Jeez all he said was he didnt like the childs name. Thats his opinion, his entitled to it. At most it was a passing comment, like oh they called the child ......, I dont like it.

And to however said its pretty fucking rude to insult a childs name (ADZ), GET A GRIP. How can you insult a childs name?, you can insult a child not a name.

Talk about OTT, you cant pass a commit about a name around here without it being deleted or being attacked for stating an opinion that differs from somebody else's  ::).

Pretty sure you'd be pretty pissed off if you had a kid and I told you whatever you'd named it fucking sucked.

I wouldn't. That's your opinion, you have every right to it. I would name my kid as I want to, I wouldn't care about other's opinions (and I'm sure there's no name everyone loves). I also hope everybody thinks like that. I do like honest people.

 As I said: if you're offended by what happened here, good luck with the rest of your life. Don't expect it to be roses.

I'm sure there's some other time where you can address your dislike for a newborn's name.

Not when others are congratulating the family on their newborn.

Don't you think?


I'm all for honesty, but it doesn't mean you have to be stupid...





/jarmo

No, its just your opinion. Well prehaps if you said it to my face.

If you said it in one thread on an internet forum that I prob never heard of and will never read, than no it wouldnt bother me in the slightest.

why the fuck not? because its stupid for lack of a better word.

its like going to funeral and saying " ya I didnt really like the guy, he was kind of a prick"

yes thats your opinion and your entitled to it but, its just an assshole thing to say

I don't know about you guys, but I don't think it's the same at all.

wrong place, wrong time is all i meant

pwned.

I will partially agree i dont think the censorship needs to go over board just to keep Mr Rose happy.

Freedom of speech Axl, remember?

Pah!, freedom of speach is overrated.

Yeah i hear chinesedemocracy.com is quite nice, but we still dont allow links to leaks or insults to other posters, at the end of the day all message boards have thier limits to what can be said and posted, its knowing them limits and keping within them that can make you a good poster, and i you dont like the limits, go and play somewhere else, there are plenty of other boards to visit, i think sometimes a lot of the problem with people is you like like to moan complain and create attention for youself by creating shit. As some of you may know i used to be on this board all day every day, and i started to have a problem with the level of freedom of speach here, but instead of making posts calling Jarmo and the mods names and being an asshole in thier home, i went and visited the other boards till i found somewhere i was happier posting, there was no fuss no drama no nastiness, as i respected that this is Jarmos site, i was a guest in his house and what he said goes. Maybe you bitchers and moaners should creat your own sites where you can say what the hell you want.

 

It wasn't stupid, the title of the thread was not "Congratulate Tommy on his new addition". It said "Tommy has a new kid" or something similar. This means that the thread was a discussion of such and someone mentioned the kids name, which I then said I thought was bad. What IS stupid is having a thread about it where people are expected to do nothing but congratulate him seeing as how it was the day of or a few days after he just had a kid I would be shocked to hear he was on a fansite trolling the message board for congratulations from people with all he probably had going on.

It's not about Tommy reading this board. It's about decency. Look it up when you got some free time.



Regarding other sites, they do what they do, we do what we do.

I'm sure there are "unhappy" posters on every site.

It all comes down to the simple fact that you can't please everybody.

Personally I've had one way of doing things since day one. My way.

I do what I think is right. Occasionally people don't agree with my decisions.

That's life.


You don't think it's fair that we don't talk about illegal leaks, that's your opinion. My opinion is that we'll talk about stuff that's officially out, or have been chosen by the band to be out there. Like, them performing a song live in concert.

Stolen music isn't something that the band put out.... It's pretty simple really.

 

I also don't think there's anything interesting in making personal attacks aimed towards people in or around the band.

As you might have guessed by now, I try to keep the negativity to a minimum because it's not the kind of crowd I prefer.

I guess I'm naive for assuming that fans of a certain artist/band are supposed to be the most loyal and supportive followers of the artist/band in question.





/jarmo

I don't know if that was supposed to be directed at a lot of people but I never said anything about any other sites or not being able to discuss leaks. And I get what you're trying to do as far as limiting the negativity, which is probably a good idea. I just disagree with the thought that it was a personal attack for not liking Tommy's choice for a baby name. That's the definition of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

First part was a reply to you, the rest was a general post.  : ok:




/jarmo

I see where you're coming with this, but I do think that there should be both sides of criticism; good and bad, to create interesting conversation. And I'm not talking about this Tommy's daughter -incident now, but in general I think that's the base of a great and interesting message board. Which this board mostly is, sometimes I just think the rules are too strict and mods shut up people if they show some negativity.

Good criticism can be constructive.

Bad is just whining for the sake of whining.




/jarmo

Just look at the bile that gets posted on the youtube comments where there is no control, not just GN'R but for anything. I dont even scroll down for the comments, I despair for the human race whenever I do.

I have seen good criticism disappear here.. altough mostly in GN'R section.

I'm sure. It probably turned "good and constructive" as soon as it was removed.....



/jarmo

You are attacking nothing to do with what Im saying you loser. Your clutching at my full-stops and my tag lines!

Here is the point: You are bitching and moaning about the moderating of this site. The moderating of this site made it good. You are some puny little member of this forum. Now you expect people to risk making the site not good by changing the moderation style to make you happy.

THAT is why I call you egotistical. It was a summary for you not acknowledging anything other than ur own useless little feelings. If you understood how this forum works, you wouldn't be bitching about moderating, you'd be bitching about something more relevant; like your lack of intelligence.

Can't argue with "the point"? Didn't think so. Now fuck off

Gotta love your attitude.
Puny little members are what forms the community. Overall quality of community and the discussion it creates  is what makes the forum good or bad. That hard on I  mentioned(It sounds like you don't bother reading  through the posts you reply to  so the "What hard on???" - reaction you are having  atm isn't surprising) is dying very quickly here when I try to imagine you trying  to run  forum or being a moderator to one.  ;D

It's the community that makes a forum good or bad.
It's true moderation has lots of effect on what sort of a community and  what sort of posters stick around. So does millions of other things. I sticked around cause I loved the lay out and total lack of banners. It makes this site look neat ad professional even in late 00's,and it certainly did so in late 90's. I'm guessing tons of others did just that too.
I'm guessing more sticked around because of that than the privilege of not being sure if a post by them, or they guy they dislike, gets deleted because it contains an opinion that is too negative, or too non supportive.  Or because an article that is deemed too negative, or even discussion about it, is furiously guarded from popping up on this forum.


Like I said in a post you apparently just quoted without reading, none of your posts follows your own bullshit infested guidelines, nor the official rules of this forum. If we went by your own standards, they should be deleted.
SO again, why the fuck do you keep posting them? What does failing to live by your own "rules" long enough to finish the post where you state them make you look like?

This is an example, right here, of someone who's posts need to be moderated and deleted.  Just sayin'.......

No, it was good and constructive before it got removed. It was just negative.

"Why are you here if you don't support the band?"

In my opinion you can support a band, be a real fan, even though you have something negative to say about it. But everyone has their own limits.

Something negative is way different than mostly negative.


People are so used to getting what they want when they want it, when it doesn't happen, they don't know what to do.


The amusing thing is seeing people think they somehow have the right to come here and "order" me to change the place to fit their needs.

Times change but they don't. Same posts year after year.


Smart asses who know our rules, then post shit they know will get removed so that they ca continue with the "why are all posts removed" act.





/jarmo

Yes I've been here for many years and I know what you're talking about.

But I also think you, and moderators too, should take some criticism seriously and try to learn from it. 'Cause some of it is pretty good (and of course some of it goes straight out the window). I know it's not my or anyone elses right to come here and complain and demand you to change things and rules, but that's how I think a message board works best; admin(s) listen to other users and what they got to say. I'm not talking about this deleting policy only.

Anyway, this is the best GN'R board. Better to have strict rules than no rules at all.

^^  Great post.  I think you said it well. 

Yeah, but there is also a thing called freedom of expression which Jarmo practice.


I agree entirely, I'm ok with the trade-off.

Scandinavians are raising the level of discussion on the internet and maintain whats noble left in this world :P

the only thing i can contribute, in term of the moderation and censorship on this site (and hopefullly, i'm fairly objective), is that i've never used so many other forums until the censorship began, i didn't need to.

everything i could ever want to know was on htgth. That isn't the case anymore. i agree with some form of censorship, no posting links etc. BUT....there are some interesting topics for discussion that are simply off limits here, and i find that to the detriment of the board and the community as a whole

I would never tell anyone to f*** off to another board, but there are others out there that have sensible discussion without the crazy nonsense posted at mygnr (which i think is a good source of info, and rumour btw).

a good example for me is gnr evolution.

i think discussion is a good thing....but what do i know

Even when the whole discussion is a product of bullshit?

Something that didn't happen or something that's not accurate?


That's what many "interesting" discussions are.

Somebody says something negative and/or sensationalist in its nature about GN'R and it's labeled as "the truth" and "interesting"....





/jarmo

And what gets me is the people that don't "get it".

Your yard, your rules.

If enough people don't like the rules, everyone leaves, and you're left alone with your ball and no one to play with (just humor the analogy, OK?  I'm not insinuating you like to play with us, literally).  Essentially, the site and community would die.

But, apparently, not "enough" people feel that way....if they did, the place would be a ghost town.  I've seen a good number of GnR forums die EXACTLY that kind of death over the years.  Hell, I've seen a good number of FORUMS die that kind of death.

But so far, HTGTH seems to be doing just fine.  I mean, I don't see the exact traffic numbers, so I'm only guessing by the number of posts and how active the threads are, but it seems like there are plenty of people here who don't mind the rules and moderation style.  If we want to go talk about things that are "verboten" around here, a whole shitload of us respect our "host" enough to take those discussions to other places....more willing to allow those kinds of discussions.  It's really as simple as that.

People try to make it into more, and I don't know why.  I guess they "love" the web site addy so much they feel it should be run a specific way...ie: the way they want it run.  Or maybe they're actually the facist nazi's they accuse the mods of being...I don't know. 

The long and short of it is: If you don't like the way the forum is modded, leave.  Get your friends to leave.  Get everyone you talk to to leave.  And go somewhere else.  Then this place will "die" (though I'd bet it's modded the exact same way until the day jarmo "shuts the lights off") and wherever the "masses" decide to go will prosper. And, better yet, you'll get to say to everyone "Hey, I was RIGHT!!!".   So far, though...I don't see a huge number of people jumping ship....which is pretty much proof positive that this isn't enough of an issue to show up on MOST poster's radar.

See the circular nature of the "bitching" argument?

Read pilferk's post . He sums up everything down to a t. Everything about this forum is what makes it good. So, let me give you a taste your own bullshit. I hate the layout.
I start a thread and say "hey the layout sucks! Change it!"
Jarmo says "No!"
Me, "nobody ever listens to my opinion. I'm so important, you should listen to me! look at the 20 other people who agree with me!"

Shut up me, everybody says. If everbody hated the layout enough for it to be worth Jarmo changing, everybody would, well, slowly leave and go to a forum with a different layout. If they just dislike it a little bit, but it doesn't affect them coming here, so it's not worth Jarmo changing.

A forum is a dictatorship, but the leader has an incentive to treat his people well, because otherwise, they will leave his dicatatorship with 0 repurcussions; that's why and how it works. This isn't some sort of democracy where everybodies opinion will be considered. It's a fucking forum! Don't shout and yell, you have a choice to be here. So accept thats how it works and bitch about something else


Trying to find a hole in my argument? So cute! Did you read arguing 101 and now you're trying to apply it?
Did I ever say STOP spamming? No. I don't run this site, I can post what I want and Jarmo will delete or ban me if he thinks it's spam. He clearly doesn't because he probably is as sick of morons like you as I am. Spam all you want, it'll just get you deleted or banned. I'm not telling you to stop. I'm just saying don't complain. Go study your book a little harder.

My point is, don't complain "Everything gets deleted" - suggest, "maybe we could be lighter on moderation," "maybe the layout could be blue"
And when he doesn't listen to your suggestion thats been "suggested" 20 times before, quit suggesting it. This thread should seriously be in dead horse.

Man, your not going to win this argument on any level, stop wasting my time. Be a little more mature and accept that you didn't think through what you were saying.

You're welcome!

Way forum is modded (or to be more specific, the irritating amount of control over what people can say and read in here) isn't everything there is to it.
Somehow you managed to make it sound like HTGTH was some sort of isolated  hunting lodge in middle of Alps requiring  2 months of epic dangerous journeying to arrive or leave. :yes:
It's internet. For most people leaving and returning  a forum are minor concepts one mouse click away, instead of some large emorage-infested decisions involving hand on Bible oaths and account deletion and whatnot.

Of course people want to bitch about flaws they feel are present in  forums they like or care about.
In that sense, "go somewhere else!!" is an odd comeback here.
If I didn't like it here, why the fuck would I bother caring enough about what I feel is odd feats in moderation to bitch about it?

You are terrible  at tasting flavors, if that is the closest you can get to my bullshit.
If you have to try to put words in mouths of "everybody" and me, atleas try to use ones that even somehow resemble what has been said
That's one huge fucking "IF" if ever there was one.
You can't use words like " everybody" when talking about this stuff really. No admin or mod can run a site in a manner that  pleases everybody. If you run a community forum for GNR fans  that has,say, more than 1000 active users you are pretty much guaranteed to have people who are pissed off about thing Y and people who are madly in love with thing Y. "Everybody" will never leave or stay.

If there are  people who like the site as a whole, but "dislike the layout a bit"  why shouldn't they,say, head for a section called Administration&feedback and post their opinion there?
After all, feedback is the reason for entire section exists and all, right?

Oh but I forgot, since  it is a choice to be here, instead of voicing their opinions they should " accept how it works"and " bitch about something else" is that it?
"Why criticize?!" has been your point since you and your " i win lolz" routines  entered this thread.
It's not like anything good can ever come from posts and threads  that criticize, right?  If something annoyed you it' s better to remain silent about it than voice it out and attempt to create discussion about it??

It's not as much  about "JARMO U NEED TO CHANGE THIS NOW 4 ME" as much as creating discussion. If you wanna feel all optimistic, you can always hope or believe this discussion matters somehow. Most likely it doesn't.
Basically,people like to see what other people think about stuff they are into. Or about stuff that  pisses them off. Amazing huh?


Ahh so now your point is general tone of the bitching and how it fails to please you?
Well, atleast you've gone a long way from this:
Or this:

You are improving my friend. : ok:

It sounds like you misunderstood my point. That,  or  the concept of spam. 

You don't live like you preach. Even long enough to finish a single post on an Internet forum. 
Do you understand that?


You can't stand  the fact I whine about some ways this site is ran.
When voicing this, you can't manage a single fucking paragraph without some sort of an insult.
There's a  good change I get insulted by these continuous insults! Wow! Yet, you keep filling your posts with them.
- - > You are making posts you feel should be better deleted.

Oh but wait,
"it' not like I run this site lol. Not my decision. While trying to get my ever changing point across I  continuously  violate forum rules and my own " this is how mod should work"  guidelines but thats not  a prob  for me  cuz i'm not a mod. You are a moron, I win.

You don't see what that makes you?
Let me give you an example, as is the popular habit here in HTGTH.

- - -
LTD and his good personal friend, Mrated96 are at park. They eat ice cream and watch the park maintainer hard at work.
There is a sign " Don't LITTER!" next to them.

LTD: Maintainer sometimes pisses me off. You have to wipe your fucking feet when coming here now. It's  a park ffs! Besides little littering is oddly liberating imo.
Mrated96: His park. His rules. Stop complaining. Go away.  He's keeping park clean.  You are a moron. I win.
LTD:.Sure is great  view tho.
Mrated96 You are a moron. People come here cuz rules R so good.
I totally ran a park once. I understand that keeping it clean is important.
LTD :O
Mrated96 *throws ice cream paper on ground and walks away*
LTD: Dude did you just litter??
Mrated96: Dude if its a prob  it's maintainer's prob not mine. I win again.

- - -

No, actually, that's entirely the point.  It's very easy to leave.  It doesn't take much effort at all.  It doesn't take much effort to "go somewhere else" and talk about the things verboten on this forum, either.  But nobody seems to want to do that...they'd rather bitch.  Or, rather, they DO go "somewhere else" and then STILL bitch.  Which just boggles my mind, since it makes zero sense. 

Hint: This might be the best GnR forum (IMHO) but it's not the ONLY GnR forum.  :)

So, if you don't like the way things are being run...walk away. For awhile or forever.  It's a real simple concept.  Works in all manner of things in life....and if enough people agree with you, the "things" you walk away from fail.  If enough people disagree with you.....they don't.

Vote with your feet (or your clicky finger).


The OTHER point is: It doesn't do any good.  Seriously.  It's pointless.  Which is why I don't get why people continue to do it.  Which is why it's NOT an "odd comeback".  It's reality.   The bitching won't accomplish anything, other than maybe provide you with a personal catharsis....something I'm pretty sure is NOT what jarmo's intent in running the forum is.  How much you like or care about the forum, personally, is irrelevant to the discussion.

Either:

a) Obey jarmo's rules when in his yard

or

b) Go play in someone else's yard and stay out of jarmo's.

YOU can try to make it about more than that but, at the end of the day, it's not a grey issue.  It's black and white.  YOU, just like all of us, are here at jarmo's discretion.  HE OWNS THE SITE, lock, stock and barrell.  So you either do what he wants, or leave.   Any other point of view is blatantly wrong.  It IS what it IS.  So embrace reality, accept it or move on to someplace you'll be happier.  Personally, I hope you stay....but if the bit is chaffing you and  you're unhappy, maybe it's time to part company with HTGTH.

Look, I'm not trying to usher you out the door.  That's not my intent at all.  But it seems like you have a warped sense of what this place actually is...which is what YOU think it should be.  It's not.  It's what JARMO thinks it should be.  Period.  End of story.  If you feel you want to provide "feedback", I suppose that's valid.  But when he says, repeatedly, he's heard the SAME feedback and simply doesn't feel the need to take it into account (and he has, on this)...you are left with the same choice I keep putting in your face:  Accept it or move on.  The bitching and arguing is completely and utterly pointless, and won't have ANY effect.

Get it?

Do you think bitching is going to change anything?  Do you think it's productive?  I think the answer is pretty obvious, here......

Likely they should.

And then, when jarmo says "I love the layout and it ain't changing"....end of discussion.

Now you have a choice: Deal with the layout you hate or leave.

Jarmo's made his position on your "issue" known, widely.  Yet people still bitch.

Pointless.


It's pointless to continue to bitch, yes.  It's pointless to bring up the same issue, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again when the OWNER of the site, who is ultimately the guy making the decisions, has already made it known that he doesn't value this particular piece of feedback.  Essentially you're left talking to hear yourself talk.  I just don't get that.

So, in that sense, yes...you should accept how it works, move on, and make a decision you're comfortable with: stay and obey the rules or find another "home".


Except there is only one person's "opinion" on this issue that matters.

And he's weighed in already, repeatedly.

So, again...what does it accomplish?

Why didn't m_rated get neg for calling whomever a douchbag in their arguement?

Probably for the same reason you and I aren't mods.  ;)

REAL mods seem to have a code to discern when posters are truly being insulting or spamming or trolling and deserve negative karma as opposed to those of us who whine when someone is called an insulting name in the heat of an argument and we think they deserve negative karma more because the "insulter" is disagreeing with our point of view in the overall argument.

Check out how many threads have whiners calling for negative karma for Jarmo or AdZ or Christos because they used a "bad word" in their reply to some asshole's post.  :hihi:

 :rofl: I got deleted yesterday but someone in the "Matrix" rebooted me........... :hihi: :beer:

You can't be a Che Guevara on this board.

Get over it.

Internet message board revolutionaries..... :rofl:

dandy randy got his ass spanked by handy andy


think about that one for 10 minutes then you'll find out that it's as relevant as this thread

If 50% of that post is irrelevant, does that necessarily entail that...

... Oh, wait. We've done all that.


I've told you before!,

sight beyond sight...

I dunno. IO have much respect for what jarmo has done and I know personally, Ive modded and been part of may gnr forums, andhell even run and own one also now. I agree, that we may run things different but end of the day we are still all on the same side. And really we aren't so different. I have always been a fan of this site, and only post when I want to contribute, to a discussion. same as my own site. Its respect to rules set is all , again end of the day we all are fans of the same band!

I wish that was the case bro.   There are a few who come here who openly don't care for the band.