Here Today... Gone To Hell!

There is an article in a swedish newspaper today about Guitar Hero and it says that Guns N' Roses negotiate about making their own version of Guitar Hero like Aerosmith did.

Source: http://www.svd.se/kulturnoje/nyheter/artikel_1470989.svd (http://www.svd.se/kulturnoje/nyheter/artikel_1470989.svd)

That was a rumor about a month ago. But with GNR now having a deal with the competition, I would assume it won't happen now.

metallica have a version coming out on guitar hero, yet their also in the new rockband

I'm not so sure that the company just liscensing their songs means that GNR can't have their songs in another game.  Not really a "deal" so to speak, but GNR just loaning out their music to be used.

I think the Swedish journalist read something and made his own conclusion.

The Swedish article says that Van Halen, Eagles, Steely Dan and Guns N? Roses are all negotiating to release their own games.

The Wall Street Journal article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121487474239618065.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) from a few weeks ago has the following info:



Notice the same band names?


Don't trust Swedes!  :hihi:



/jarmo

but u insist on living here :P

 :rofl: Spoken like a true Fin.

  :) 

i would love to see a GN'R Guitar Hero...

that to me makes 20x more sense than a damn Aerosmith one... no offense if you're coo-coo for Aersomith. But Joe Perry isn't a guitar-god in my opinion... he does great riffs... his leads are mediocre at best... *rant over*

Rockband 2 wouldn't stop a GN'R Guitar Hero... there's no exclusivity. Unless Activision makes GN'R only release on GH from now on... doubt it tho.

I don't think Axl is that obsessed with licensing as other artists.... i.e. the big "F.U." he gave to Harley for leaking a "supposed" song...

Negotiations for Guitar Hero: Guns N' Roses were also mentioned in Finnish newspaper Aamulehti today. The article was about GH: Aerosmith, but it also had stuff more in general about games coming to rescue rock since tv and radio aren't playing it. The piece ends with a mention that if the unconfirmed NY Times rumour about a song from Axl Rose's 14-years-in-the-making Chinese Democracy appearing in the new Rock Band 2 is in fact true, then rock n' roll will be saved again.

I don't know if this is confirmed, but a blogger at the official Guitar Hero web site says "Civil War" is going to be on the Guitar Hero: World Tour game, due October 27th.

UPDATE: The list I was reading from was that of a "wish list" created by someone who'd like to see the song on Guitar Hero World Tour.

Sorry to create any false excitement. As far as I can tell, there's no official list yet.

I love that song, that would make me happ inded  : ok:

Don't trust Swedish journalists or journalists from Tampere!

 :hihi:




/jarmo

My whole dispute with GH: GNR is what era will they use.  If it has CD songs on it, then they have to use the current line up.

they could easily use all the line ups if it follows a time line like the aerosmith one.

I don't have any sources but I got a feeling you won't be seeing too many GnR songs in guitar hero games anymore. Maybe a couple but I don't see a whole game based on it.  Rock Band will probably get first dibs on most of the GnR stuff with their high quality download service.

I'm basing this purely on a new song being in the game and Axl's friendly relationship with MTV (who owns Harmonix, the creators of Rock Band).

i read somewhere on that site quite a while ago that it was going to be 'coma' that's on GHWT but either way it would be great.  Im sure some sort of gnr song will be on that game unless for some strange reason harmonix have tied them down which i doubt very much as almost all bands seem to be floating between the two games at the moment.

what era do you think they would use?!?! seriously....the era that sold 100 million records or the one that has not put out a record yet?  thats not a shot at the new band....I just dont see Guitar Hero putting out a game soley for a band who has not released any music yet...they are going to want to include Paradise City, Nightrain etc....

its not like its a different band, its just different members.   theres no reason they couldn't have paradise city or nightrain on the game being played by Robin, Richard, and Ron.

could not disagree with you more

That's right. Duff and Izzy do the backing vocals so well.......sung with such conviction!  :hihi:

Steven gets in there too doesn't he?

theres no reason.   like it or not, the old guys are history and there is no way in hell they would be included.

by your logic it would be ok to have Slash, Duff and Izzy in the game playing 'Chinese Democracy" tracks ....that they had nothing to do with....just like Robin, Tommy and so on and nothing to do with Appetite or the Illusions...

Um ... no.

I don't see Slash, Duff and Izzy playing Chinese Dem songs at their live gigs, do you? If Robin Richard and Ron have been playing those songs live with Axl as members of Guns and Roses then it is fine IMO.

no, that wouldn't be ok because those guys aren't guns n roses members.

a guns n roses game should feature guns n roses members playing guns n roses songs.  that is all.

i can see this happening sometime next year. They could put the new album up for DL for ROCK BAND like Metallica is doing. Them having there own game like Aerosmith would be bad ass. I'd play it like crazy lol  :rofl:

i would not have thought that guitar hero makers would want to have too many "band" versions of their game as sales would dwindle.  I mean they have AS version and now there is going to be a Metallica version so i doubt there will be too many more, unless they really space them out time wise.  And is the Metallica version going to be like GH3? or like world tour? no one knows anything yet.

if Duff, Izzy, Slash are still getting royalties for their work on AFD UYI, etc; legally, if their intellectual property is used in a video game I think there is a way in hell they'd be included-Axl may own the name, but he doesn't own all the song writing credits

depnds on what songs are featured-your logic is pretty flawed here-selling something like this, the new members have zero songwriting credits for a large portion of the GnR song catalouge; you may not like it, but th old members are still a vital piece of this band when talking about selling a GNR themed video game; unless of course they only use material exclusively from Chinese Democracy- which outside of the initial curiosiity, would probably hamper sales rather than help

-and this post as nothing to do with my opinion of old GnR vs new GnR, former members vs curent members - but strictly from a legal/intellectual property point of view and marketing / sales

I think, because of all the hassles, etc, we're unlikely to see a GH: Guns n Roses.

I wouldn't rule out, however, a "track pack" for GH, Rock band, or both.

That way the images, band members, etc aren't an issue.  But the music can be sold for the fans.

I think I'd just about explode if Appetite...or even Greatest Hits...went up for Rock Band.  I'd pay a good $15 to $20 for it....which is more than I'd pay for the ALBUMS, new, at most stores.

On the "what if" note, though:

If done in the vein of GH: Aerosmith.....

Can you imagine the video snippets/"documentary" pieces?

Ye gods...

Not only would the cast of characters need to be huge, they'd need an entire DVD JUST for the documentary pieces.

No holds barred?  It'd get messy.

Watered down?  It'd get destroyed by the fanbase.

that has jack shit to do with anything.   quit being a troll for the old lineup.

actually , it does- it has nothing to do with being a troll for the old lineup but with legalities-just b/c you can't see the facts doesn't mean those issues don't exist-even Axl would tell you that

it's shocking how ignorant this post is considering all the money to be made off this- can you imagine the number of lawsuits that would be filed if they did that?  do you have any incliniation what a copywright is?  apparantly not

i dont know what a fucking copywright is, but i do know what a copyright is, and this wouldnt' be violating any copyright.    i suppose if metallica used their current bass player over jason newsted or cliff burton on an old song that would also be a copyright violation?      i know copyrights, its how i make a living.

Someone is actually expecting Guitar Hero: Gun's N Roses featuring the NEW band to get released before Chinese Democracy? :o :o
It's only step away from Guitar Hero: Lefttodecay covering GNR Wanna buy?

I suppose no1 here knows jackshit about what sort of a copyright mess Guitar Hero: GNR  actually would invoke and involve, which is a huge shame. Would be fun to know if its even remotely possible to ever see it happening.
Unfortunatelly this surely  isn't stuff the game makers could just  sort out with record label, going  "past" Axl,Slash,Duff, etc.

If you have a project that requires ringing Axl's, Slash's, etc's doorbell and getting them to agree on this shit..well, GL with all that:p

I'm not gonna jump into the midst of this big debate (we've done it before...), but:

There's is drastic difference in the situation you cite above, and GnR's.....basically in the song writing credits.

For example:

I have "...and Justice for all" sitting right in front of me.

Guess how many song writing credits Newsted has on it?

One.  "Blackened".

Now let's look at "Appetite for Destruction".

Every song is listed as written by "Guns n Roses".

That means they SHARE the copyright and songwriting credits on that material.

See the difference?

It's not about the "performances" or the people physically playing the instruments at any given time.  It's that, as a songwriter, you have some say in how  and where a song can be used.  Not in live performances of the material, but in any commercial release of it.  And with that right, you can "yea or nay" any release using it.  So you can, in essence, insist your likeness is used...or you refuse to sign off on the use of the material.  It's that simple when it comes right down to it, really.

There IS compulsory license, but I don't think it would apply to the video game use of master tracks. I also don't think (though it's a bit of a legal quagmire) it would allow for the rerecording of the old material by the current incarnation of the band.  It MIGHT, but I'd expect a prolonged legal battle over doing so, because compulsory license would be getting applied to something it never has before....

apparantly some people just don't understand this

my sympathies to your clients

oh, and good example about Cliff Burton :hihi: Don't think he'd be raising any issues about a copyright violation I suppose

^ his family would.... i'm sure that Metallica have arranged for royalties to swing thier way. I doubt Lars is that huge of a prick to screw over Cliff's family.

Anyone know how many songwriting credits he has amongst Metallica's catalog?

His performance royalties lilkely wouldn't/couldn't get in the way of the use of the master tracks......

good point; the point I was makig about GnR was in response to the posts about the old members not having anything to with a Guitar Hero themed game made with their songs and how that would be virtually impossible to do without including them-as for Metallica, not sure why they were brought into the thread

i was making a point that bands lineups change over time.    while it is possible that the old members might have to give permission to use the back catalog, that doesn't mean they can't feature the current band in the game.

The old band can hold back their consent for the material being used. For Example if Slash's likeness isn't used in the game he just says Nay. Honestly why would Slash (or any other original member) agree to using the master of THEM playing the song they had a hand in writing in a game that has Robin playing lead... On the other hand why would Robin want to have his likness used in a game where you are playing AFD era masters with Slash actually playing?

personally, I think the only wayGnR will have a GnR themed game is if they stick to songs from Chinese Democracy; given the way the former members get along with Axl-there may be too many legal hurdles to overcome for them

There IS another way...and it's simply to NOT do the "band likeness" route.  To do it very differently than GH:Aerosmith was done.

In other words, do it in the "classic" GH style...with no name likenesses (or, if using the GH:World Tour engine...user created band members). 

You could probably even do a more "Behind the Music" style of "documentary"....

It might not be ideal, but it's a more likely route, IMHO.

Again, I think it's more likely to see "track packs", or album releases......it just makes a lot of the hurdles easier to surmount.

Why are some of you "worrying" about this instead of focusing on what's actually going to happen?




/jarmo

what is actually goeing to happen? 

Just too many hurdles to jump for this to happen.

If it follows the template of the Aerosmith game (and allegedly, the Metallica game), the whole structure will be based on the history of the band. It would be ridiculous to have robin and bumblefoot playing at the whiskey in the early days. So, unless all former members consent to having their likenesses used, it will not happen.

I don't think the generic approach (no likenesses at all) is an option; both franchises are making hard pushes to secure master tracks (as opposed to covers), and releasing a band-specific game without the personalities attached seems contrary to that. I guess they could abandon the band history template altogether, but that would make the game seem pretty silly.

On the subject of what WILL happen: I think pilferk's on the money, suggesting a song pack for one game or the other; and given the attention Guns has received (both "classic" guns in GH, and the current lineup in RB), probably a larger sized pack, at that. I'm thinking, six songs or more, like the Grateful Dead, Boston, and Who packs for Rock Band (six, six, and twelve songs respectively). I think both games are now featuring full-album downloads, but after a year with Rock Band, I think the carefully selected song packs are more commercially viable than the full-album offerings.

You know... unless they dish up Appetite.

*Edited to add: Given the hype generated by Shackler's Revenge at E3, a full Rock Band version of Chinese Democracy might actually sell, as well.

a Guns N Roses game that doesnt include songs from "Appetite" and the "Illusions"?  I can't wait to see how many copies that sells. :rofl:...Sure WE would buy it...but what about the casual music/GNR fan?

i basically said the same thing last page-but was pointing out the difficluties to a copyright expert on how difficult it would be without the former members having some involvment-the expert didn't seem to think their was any reason they should be involved, i guess the minor inconveniance of them writing the material never factored into the experts thinking

A hint: Rock Band 2.....





/jarmo

based on past experience, I'll believe it when I see it/hear it

Based on past experiences, negative whiners like to whine about shit even when they've been proven wrong.

Especially those who are fans of something that doesn't exist anymore.....



/jarmo

can you say what I've been proven wrong about?  Axl saying we'll hear new music in 2006?  a few leaks where everyone was ordered to cease and desist?  can you be more specific?

and fans of something that doesn't exist?  the only thing that doesn't exist is chinese democracy b/c  doing a search, I can't seem to purchase ir anywhere.....AFD, UYI I&II, lies all exist-so again, can you be more specific?  Rock Band 2, as of today, doesn't exist....

have fun saying that one month from now...

Wasn't it pushed out a month?

source?

I bet you've been proven wrong about a lot of shit. You just don't like to acknowledge it.


Rock Band 2 doesn't exist?  ::)




/jarmo

wow man, you know you can pre order it right??
And sorry but  those records you are talking about are awesome and we all love them, but they are the PAST. This is the present and the future is where CD will conquer them all :)

If they already have the instruments they might buy it.  There's a lot of poeple out there (I'm not going to get into a debate over whether or not they have too much time on their hands) who have already mastered the games/tracks released and are just wanting to do new tracks.  But yes, of course, Appetite or Lies or UYI 1 or 2 would sell more than Chinese Democracy at this point.  But if that album ends up being huge (again, not going to debate that here), the game would sell more.  Time will tell

Don't get me wrong here, I am sure that Rockband 2 is getting released (just based off the money that the first one made alone).  But, if I may play devil's advocate for a minute here, I can remember being able to pre-order Chinese Democracy, and from legitimate websites too.   ;)

You can play whatever you want but the fact remains, those dates or releases were not confirmed on gunsnroses.com.

Shackler's Revenge appearing in Rock Band 2 was!


So all the negative "fans" choose to ignore certain things in order to make their theories right so they can keep going on and on about shit.

And once they've been proven wrong, they'll ignore it. They'll pretend they never were proven wrong and find something else to whine about.


"The tour won't sell" -> shows sell out
"Axl won't show up" -> Axl plays a great show
"The setlist sucked" -> They play songs that weren't performed before
"It's not the old band" - which is what they thought in the first fucking place but act like it's not their agenda.....





/jarmo

Guns N' Roses fans are silly. If something is announced, its coming out, whether that be a song or a movie or a scented hand lotion.
And it wasn't just confirmed by the maker, it was confirmed by the developer, and publisher.

It's like if Estee Lauder makes a new hand lotion and says it's coming out, then the people who package it and bottle it say that it's coming out, then the store that carries Estee Lauder stuff confirms that it's coming out as well. Why is there a reason NOT to trust them? I don't get your guys' logic....

And as fruity as my example was, so are your conspiracy theories.  :hihi:

come on, the earth can't be round because you see it flat.   :confused:

But don't put it like all GNR fans are silly. there's even an astronaut that saw the earth being a sphere.

If there are countless examples of silliness, then Guns N' Roses fans are silly.
It's simple "If, Then" Causality. Quit being so PC.

I'll make you a deal, if the song isn't on the Rock Band 2 game, I'll apologize.
But maybe when you play the game and hear the song for the first time you can realize that it's ridiculous.

:smoking:

That is the silliest thing I've ever heard from a GNR fan.

Of course the earth is round. And most GNR fans know it.

Your calling GNR fans silly is the silliest thing I've heard from a GNR fan.