Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://hotsearches.aol.com/2008/04/28/remember-these-timeless-80s-bands/?icid=100214839x1201024923x1200038414

I noticed while logging on today that AOL has YET AGAIN ran another article on GN'R.  Check it out...

Well, hey!  They made the top ten!! 

I still don't understand the description of a "hair band" - because there isn't one - it's all subjective.  Members of GnR have tried hard to reassure us that they weren't one.  Long hair?  Teased hair?  Lame music (Warrant)? 

yeah its dumb..we all know they are not a hairband...but Appetite did come out in the late 80's and Axl's hair was "teased" up in the WTTJ video.  I guess that puts them into the category.

MMM Good. thanzk

HBK *

Just because he did that for one video doesn't make Guns a hair metal band.
They never were.

fuck this stupid list...how the fuck are Guns N Roses and Aeromsith considered hair bands??

Pantera got famous in the early 90's...are they a grunge band?

I hate it when GNR are called a hair band! Its because of Axl's hair in the Welcome to the jungle vid.

cuz at the time when gnr was big...all the bands got lumped into the Hair Band genre

there wasnt 700000 music genres back then :hihi: anyone who had long hair ended up being referred to as a hair band. relax its not that big of deal  ::)

I think due to the fact that they toured along the Sunset Strip playing Rock Music in the early-mid 80's put them in the HM Catagory...Early phots show they were definatley HM..Check out the book Reckless Road...But musically they were superior to the other Sunset Strip bands..No one sounded or wrote lyrics like Axl..
But once they got going they did not resmble the hair bands like POISON, CINDERELLA, WARRANT etc. \By time SKID ROW came out the massacrefishnet faze was pretty much done.
Laugh all you want about the Hair Metal look but it was trendy..When bands like POISON took over established acts dressed the part as well.. Aerosmith, KISS, Motley Crue, Van Halen all wore GLAM and looked like crap....
After GN'R got big the look changed..Check out Motley Crue on Girls Girls Girls, KISS on Revenge, Aerosmith on PUMP and newer bands like CIRCUS of POWER..

Ignorant people who like to lump bands together into certain genres might call them a hair band.

And obviously people who like bands like Poison are thrilled that suddenly their favorite bands are listed along with legendary rock bands like GN'R.




/jarmo

GNR did start out as a Glam/Hair metal band though. But so did Pearl Jam, Pantera and Rivers Cuomo.

Greatest Hair metal band: Diamond Lie.

Better known to everyone as Alice In Chains.

 :hihi:

Like it or not, GNR will always be associated with that scene by some - guilt by association.

I don't think anyone with any sort of musical history acumen really
considers AFD era GNR "hair metal", the material wasn't exactly "Nothin' But A Good Time" by any means.

On the flipside, anyone who thinks GNR had anything to do with "killing off hair metal" is a revisionist.  Poison, Warrant, et al survived/thrived long after GNR had hit the mainstream.

I do think they were the beginning of the end of hair metal though. Any music journalist or historian will agree. And its pretty much said at the end of most documentaries and specials about hair metal that GNR making it big was a sure sign that fad was dying off.   

If anything, they showed everybody that there were bands out there who weren't just about the clich? Sunset Strip party lifestyle.





/jarmo

I disagree..

Poison, Warrant, Skid Row, Motley Crue all had major chart success as far into 1990 - a full 2+ years after GNR had made it big.

I've always thought GNR raised the bar of the Sunset Strip scene, no doubt about it.

But make no mistake, the didn't put anyone from that scene out of business.

GnR were the "anti-hair band" band, IMHO.  They were more of a turn away from that style of music and back to a harder rock and roll edge.  Sort of the transition band from "Hair" to "Grunge", if that makes any sense.

I think that's a very good way to characterize their impact, substance over style/fashion in the truest sense.

Just like Sex Pistols didn't put Led Zeppelin or The Rolling Stones out of business.




But with GN'R, it became apparent that you didn't have to be Bon Jovi to sell albums.

GN'R wasn't just another L.A. band marketed by the record company to the kids of America.

The fans found the band because they were different and real.




/jarmo

Honest question (because I don't know):  Though they enjoyed chart success in those years, from my memory it dropped off CONSIDERABLY from the late 80's.  They had hits, and sold albums, but not in the numbers they were.  Bands like Pearl Jam, Nirvana, etc were creeping in at the edges and starting to "share" the market with the "hair bands".  Eventually, Grunge "won".  To me, Grunge was sort of the "extreme" that GnR represented...substance over style.

While I'll agree, GnR didn't put anyone "out of business"...they sure did a pretty good lions share of the business.   They were a demonstration of the "evolution" of the music.....almost like a "missing link" type of thing.....and evolutions don't usually occur with the previous incarnation up and disappearing.  They slowly phase out....

Hair Metal

:confused:  :nervous:

(http://www.metalsludge.tv/home/images/stories/20_questions/Twisted%20Sister/Ts-color.jpg)



Not Hair Metal

 8)   :peace:

(http://www.8notes.com/images/artists/guns-n-roses.jpg)

Disco still went strong for a few years after it was considered dead.

Poison and Motley Crue are still successful today because of their fans. Nirvana didn't cause everyone to drop hair metal over night, they changed the way the casual fan looked at music and changed the relevance of pop music, and basically showed how uncool hair metal was. But GNR had a lot to do with that as well, not just on image but because of their music.

 :hihi: I think that's all we needed to clear up this debate.  Thanks!! :hihi:

Unskinny Bob by Poison peaked on the charts at #3 in 1990
Love of a Life Time by Firehouse peaked at #5 in 1991
To Be With You by Mr. Big peaked at #1 in 1991

All of this after 1.5 albums by GnR. I think "Grunge" is a larger reason for the demise of "Hair Metal"... and even that is a stretch. Guns and Grunge may have taken "some" of the fan base. But Hair metal did have a huge female/pop following that didn't translate to Nirvana and Pearl Jam.

Not really what I'm looking for...because they're snapshots of 3 songs rather than a trending of music sales and charting songs (rock and top 40) over the late 80's and into the early to mid 90's.

Again, I don't think GnR "put a bullet" in hair band music.  But there's no denying that hair band music faded away....and that's what fads/"trends"/pop culture elements tend to do.   They don't just disappear.  Their popularity just gradually lessens.  By the time '92 rolled around, and GnR was basically one of the (if not the) biggest acts on the planet.....the hair band music was CERTAINLY not at it's height in terms of popularity/sales/and charting songs goes.

 I think GnR was the harbinger of that "fading".....the begining of the evolution of music AWAY from "hair bands".....and Grunge just furthered that trend.  Eventually, hair band music pretty much faded into non-existence...or at least became a non-factor in the industry.

I would characterize it more as though The Stones didn't put the Beatles out of business.

The Pistols impact was much different than GNR's - socialogical/political/scene forerunner etc. 

Most of that can be attributed to the atmosphere in England at the time, artistic expression reflecting a disenchanted social atmosphere. 

Same thing that spawned out of Seattle here in US in Oct of '91, more
of philisophical cultural shift - a movement, than the legitimization/elevation of a particular scene.

Sure, it was about music, fashion, attitudes etc.

But the fact remains, punk didn't kill off the old bands just like the whole grunge scene didn't kill off GN'R or other big bands.




As soon as GN'R became the biggest band on the planet, some elitists started trying to make it seem "uncool" to listen to them.

The same kind of people who think a band is cool before it has even formed and as soon as they get fans, they've "sold out".  :rofl:


GN'R didn't get the recognition they deserve until a few years ago. Until then it was all about Nirvana and how cool they were.




/jarmo

I agree. Nirvana still to this day are way too overated. But that?s another debate.  ;)

They'll get more too as time goes on, and deservedly so.

I don't think they'll ever reach the mythical  "cultural changing" status
of Nirvana (here in the US) but will always be remembered as one of the best American rock bands of all time with AFD as proof positive.

I agree that GN'R has and will continue to get more of their deserved recognition and respect as time goes on.  I also agree that they'll never reach cultural changing status.  But, and I know this is another debate, the more and more time passes, the less and less I think of Nirvana as being the pinnacle of the culture changing grunge movement.  I think of Pearl Jam.

Ali

oh for crying out loud, its not the end of the world, so they hit the tail end of that scene, big deal

they played with bands like faster pussy cat, poison, motley crue, jet boy, ezo, the cult, david lee roth, kiss.


for real? they lived in the middle of the party, they were always in the thick of things and were drunk and stones whilst doing it half the time

how do you think they got the got the "most dangerous band in the world" moniker? and of course the lable shoved them down peopel throats, the kids thought it was cool that they were such bad asses, it sold alot of the records

and it wasnt unheard of to heard SCOM, Home Sweet Home, Heaven, Every Rose, house of pain....etc etc all within the same "rock block" on the radio

some of you people must have bad memories....either that or you werent around  :P

Yes, for real.


So just because they had songs like Mr. Brownstone and were having their own issues with drugs, they're the same as Poison doing "Nothin' But a Good Time"?


Just because the radio or MTV were playing the all kinds of bands in the same shows doesn't mean they were all part of the same scene.

It's just a bunch of lazy people who love labeling everything.


Just because Headbanger's Ball might've played Black Sabbath and Warrant doesn't mean they're the same kind of music.




Getting Welcome To The Jungle played in the middle of the night on MTV isn't exactly showing them down peoples' throats.



Personally I never cared for all the other bands you love to lump GN'R with. Obviously since GN'R became bigger than any of them, I'm not the only one who saw something different about them and still do.






/jarmo

yeah i just love to lump them in there...i love it  :hihi:


i would just like to know why peopel get all bent out of shape when the comparison comes up  :-\ people need to relax  :-* I never compared any gnr song to "nothin but a good time" nor did i say that any of those bands were better than gnr, i'm just saying that when the shit was going down, and these bands were all active, gnr was considered a hair band...if you dont agree with all that and the "lazy categorizors" then more power to ya i suppose....

....but that's how it was

Because it's not something the band saw themselves being part of?


I guess people associate the term with different things.

I associate it with crappy music made by guys who were more concerned about the way they looked rather than with the music itself. Not only was the music not the main priority, it was also often without any meaning other than "Party! Rock on! Hell yeah!".

I know some people don't need anything else from music, good for them.


That's why I think it's unfair to lump GN'R together with bands like Poison.





/jarmo

How so?

For all I know about the history of GN´R, know one would sign them back in the early days because they were different and way more raw than the current scene. Were they the typical Hair Metal band, some label would have approched them way earlier and made a Cinderella out of them.

well that whole sentence was supposed to read "When all these bands were active, gnr was also considered a hair band" they were also hard rock and heavy metal back then cuz thats what tehy were categorized as...i'm not the one who worked for AMA and RS and Kerrang and all that shit, but the ones who did the labeling considered them part of the genre


Jarmo, its all cool, i agree with alot of what you are saying, and while i do think there are some pretty cool tunes from hair metal bands, i'm not saying that they were or are better than GnR but some of them had their moments...remember there wasnt much else on the radio back then you were pretty much stuck with the warrant and aerosmith, bonjovi, dokken, firehouse, great white, poison, def leppard, ozzy, Crue and yes twisted sister  :hihi: ....some people can listen to the same stuff all day, everyday....not me i have to have variety or i go insane, so yeah i was subjected to all the other stuff from the rock stations....i didnt dig U2 or INXS or Cure or The Smiths or all that so the "alternative" shit wasnt my thing at all

that particular rock scene (the hair metal scene as it was coined) was my thing and i'm not ashamed to admit it...no biggie, i'm just saying when it was all new thats what the powers that be decided to group it with...and gnr was part of it otherwise i wouldnt have gotten into them

But as for looks....no gnr didnt care about all that...they were too strung out and they had their own idea of what was cool...and teased hair and makeup definately wasnt part of it...but long hair and ballads were enough for the generalizations..

and again i swear it wasnt me who lumped them in there...i jsut resigned myself to the fact that some people associate gnr with hair bands....like i said for me it was no biggie its just the way it was  :peace:

I noticed when I clicked on the original posters link(and then on the GnR part of that link), that aol music has a video for It's so Easy. It's not the video with Erin Everly in bondage, but similar. Is this a GnR sanctioned video? It would have to be, right? If not, how can they put it on aol music videos?

It was released when Live 'Era was released..

What I was trying to get at is similar to what you are saying... I think that Hair Metal faded away, I dont think any one group or other genre killed it. The average teen pop fan who was buying Poison, Warrant, Skid Row, Mr. Big etc... just followed the top 40 into more pop based acts like Hootie and the Blowfish and even R&B groups like Boyz2Men... you's be surprised how many of the "Every Rose" fans became "End of the Road" fans.

If GnR never fell apart and released a legit follow up to the illusions in 94' they wouldn't have slowed down. They released an album of practically unknown Punk covers and then imploded. When they were at the tail end of the Illusions tour they were still getting Heavy Rotation on Mtv with Estranged.

Geffen would have never even thought of signing Nirvana if it werent for Guns N Roses....Guns N Roses brought a seriousness back to rock music.do you think a major label would have even looked at Nirvana if Poison and Warrant were still the biggest bands around??..GNR were the bridge that led to early 90's hard rock like AIC, STP and Nirvana...

Yes no Bon Jovi

Told u they werent a hair band!


WTF is GNR on that list for?

Bon Jovi WAS a hair band...now they are a shitty pop band along the likes of Daughtry, Nickleback and Ashlee Simpson.....i like Bon Jovi though im seeing them in July...but their last few records BLOW

One last thing.

GNR does have a connection with the Glam scene, I've accepted it, but the thing that seperates them from the hair metal pack is the music. And it took balls to go the "anti glam" route at a time when polished pop-hair metal ruled the airwaves. That look was against the grain and really was a risk, because they were raw and raunchy, and very unpretty. Not only did their music exude this, but their image did as well. They did start the view that showed the uncoolness of that scene. I know they did for me.

I think Axl deserves a lot of credit for that.

what about Ratt, Winger and even Nelson...hahahaha!

Early Guns N Roses was not hair metal

but LA Guns and Hollywood Rose totally were.

hmmm

I would consider Bon Jovi a hair band all the way up to Slippery When Wet. After that, with the release of New Jersey, Keep the Faith, and subsequently These Days, they basically became what I call an 'American Hard Rock' band. Although, beginning with Crush in 2000, they went back to their Pop/Rock roots and added a modern edge/twist to their sound (whether one likes this change or not is purely opinion).

But anyways...

I have never considered Guns N' Roses a 'Hair Metal' band. They might have looked the part in 1985-1986 but they certainly did not have that particular sound. They had what fans smell instantly, and that is realness. For fuck's sake, just look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Poi9zDM1wY

Hair Metal? I think not. While GN'R not being that defining blow to Hair Bands' credibility in the '80s, they definately did bring to the spotlight something different to the table as mainstream Rock had been deluded to a mere 'party-like' artform. What I'm speaking of is freshness; freshness to a homogeneous Rock atmosphere. Music fans knew they had something different with Guns N' Roses. Though, while the Seattle movement of late '91 certainly fleshed out a definate Guitar-led culture entrenched by substance unto the limelight, GN'R's success did foreshadow a sort of coming for this type of music.

Like many have said, thought GN'R did not choke Hair Metal's air supply; they provided for the moment.

On the front page of Yahoo right now:

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/listoftheday/32122/the-25-best-hair-metal-bands

At least they are number 1!!!!

YEAH whooooooo KISS #1 :headbanger: :smoking: :headbanger:



thats right 8)






even though my favorite band is number one on that list i have to say that its bullshit :yes:

1) Guns N' Roses: Appetite For Destruction ensured this volatile bunch of ne'er-do-wells their place in hair-metal history. (And Axl was pretty quick to tone down the aqua-net.) Combining punk, metal and pop in one slamming freight train, Guns n' Roses in one brief flicker of tension jumped to the head of the class and apparently will spend the rest of their days doing other things. Even if Chinese Democracy ever does surface, who will really think of it as the work of Guns N' Roses? Without Slash? Without Izzy? Without Duff? It's like getting a peanut-butter cup with no chocolate, no peanut butter and only an oily rapper.

2) Van Halen
3) New York Dolls
4) Def Leppard
5) Aerosmith
6) Kiss
7) Ozzy Osbourne
8) Motley Crue
9) Spinal Tap
10) Twisted Sister

Brutal.   :hihi:

The die hards like us will be on board but without the orginial lineup the hype won't be there

GNR and "hair metal"  ???