Here Today... Gone To Hell!

By Michelle Nichols

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Music mogul Clive Davis, who helped launch stars like Whitney Houston and Alicia Keys, said singers should focus on what they do best and not feel pressured to write their own songs.

Davis, chairman and chief executive officer of the BMG Label Group, said he has seen many entertainers lose their careers by not concentrating on finding hit songs -- no matter who they are written by.

"The odds are always against you," Davis, 75, told the Billboard Music and Money Symposium on Thursday. "You have got to go over the best material, and that should win out, not withstanding any track record. I don't care how many No. 1's you have written in the past, have you written a new No. 1?"

When Houston came to him after her second or third album and asked if she should start writing songs, he said: "Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Barbra Streisand, Frank Sinatra didn't write, and they are among Time magazine's greatest artists of the century."

He said 80 to 90 percent of the artists with whom he has worked over more than four decades wrote their own material. But in recent years, more entertainers who do not write have gained stardom due to the hit TV talent show "American Idol," where singing talent is discovered.

In fact, Davis had a public spat last year with inaugural "Idol" winner Kelly Clarkson over creative differences on her third album "My December," on which she co-wrote all the songs.

"She was not signed as a singer/songwriter," said Davis, adding that her manager believed there would be at least six hits on the album while market research had shown none.

"This issue only comes up when you're dealing with entertainers who might or might not have the ability to write pop songs," he said. Clarkson's second album sold 11 million copies worldwide, so Davis said there was a lot at stake.

"My December" has sold only 754,000 units since its June 2007 release, according to music tracker Nielsen SoundScan.

The pair resolved their dispute shortly after the album's release and are now working on a new record.

Reuters

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So basically he thinks singers should just sing what they're told to sing.

Who needs singers who dare to have artistic visions and would like to be creative. Just let others write the songs so you can SELL products.


And yet the record companies wonder why people download this garbage.  ::)





/jarmo

Wow. What a fucking croc of shit. He represents everything wrong with the music industry today.

Yeah, the focus on "hits" is probably one of the reasons why the record industry has problems selling records.

With downloading, people don't feel the need to buy a full album to get that one "hit" that's constantly on the radio or featured in a commercial....





/jarmo

Absolutely. I always find it hard to get into an artist when they don't write there own material. An artist puts themselves out there, love them or hate them. This idea that Davis has ultimately kills art. Its American Idol. The singer becomes a soulless drone doing their best Karaoke. Davis is not a fan of music but of the dollar. He does not mind going through singer after singer like chewed up gum, as long as they give him a single. He doesn't like them or the music, he uses them. At least Don King is a fan of boxing. I hope there isn't a talented singer who writes and performs get suckered into signing a contract with this asshole. He will suck the purity right out of them.

well, it depends. you have songwriters who can't sing a thing, and amazing singers who are not talented to write something interesting.
of course it's better when you're a complete artist who can write music, lyrics, and sing.

if you're a clever singer without special abilities to write your own lyrics, you can work with great writers.
the most important thing is the result, a good song.

who wants to listen Whitney Houston's lyrics about how her wardrobe is wonderful, anyway.

That's true.

But I think there are many singers out there who are pretty much forced into hiring song writers just to please the record company....


Bob Dylan doesn't have hits either and his singing voice doesn't usually top lists of best singers. ;)



/jarmo

Well, the old man finally went mad.

Whitney Houston's first album of original material since 2002 will be out by the holidays this year, according to Clive Davis, who's the head of her label.

Tracks for the album have been produced or written by will.i.am, Sean Garrett and Akon, who says, "The voice is there; I don't think anyone could ever take that from her. As long as we apply that voice to hit records, she'll be right back where she left off."


hahahahaha.

Clive is a fucking joke.

The man should have left the business years ago.

The man is old and out of touch with what it means to be a true artist.

There's a reason it's called the music "business"...

Bob Dylan doesn't have hits ??

blowin' in the wind, like a rolling stone, mr tambourine man, knockin' on heaven's door, all along the watchtower, just like a woman, and so on...

What I meant is, today.


These record companies are only interested in if you have hits on your current album.

Not if you had hits decades ago.



/jarmo

I dont put anybody in the same class as singer songwriters.


I dont look at Whitney Houston like I do Mariah Carey *Who writes most of her songs lyrically and melody*


I dont even look at Meat Loaf as a true artist. Great singer but he basically sang someone elses songs.




I can't relate to a song as well if it isn't written by the person singing it.

How can u sing what someone else lives?


I think with Pop Stars who are "Entertainers" not "Artists" probably shouldnt write as most truly suck.

But I have a feeling the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame will seize to exist in about 30 years because who the fuck belongs from the last 10 years?

Guys, I agree with you on this.  George Strait didn't write his stuff either and neither does most of country.  And it rubs me the wrong way like what D said.  Now, in a band setting, I think its cool if a singer like Axl maybe sings Izzy's lyrics because it was still a song written by that band.  And we can all still relate to Izzy. 

Is a singer songwriter more like a Jack Johnson type where its usually just one person and a piano or guitar?  I know Axl writes songs, but he wouldn't be considered a "singer/songwriter" would he?   Because he is in a band? 

I like Kelly Clarkson and its a shame her album didn't sell awesome.  I bet there are some gems on there.  I wonder if they promoted it less because they knew there were no big hits on it?

i second that

Senility is touching the old man.

Tom Waits: Brawlers, Bawlers and Bastards
Allison Krauss and Robert Plant: Raising Sand
Steve Earle:Washington Park Serinade
Serj Tankian:Elect The Dead

Everytime I read this topic I see 'Clay Davis' and start laughing. Ain't no dollars in writing songs, shiiiiiiiiit.

what an ass-she sells 11 million copies of her second album, "only" 700,000 copies of the latest one-and he has the nerve to rip on her-I wonder how many people she made rich-good luck to anyone who can go out and sell 10 million copies of an album each time-ain't gonna happen

I think that I get where you are coming from.

anyone who sells 1000k in this day and age ... sucks!!!

I agree ... I think; why should I(fuckin booze)

I think Clive was talkin about POP Stars and not about bands etc.


He was talking bout Kelly Clarkson who shunned readymade pop hits to write her own stuff and even though everyone told her they sucked and her album would flop, she wouldn't listen.


Her 2nd album was a HUGE FLOP.

U go from 11 million to 700,000, that is horrible.

She had one of the album of the year contenders with I think 5 hit singles or so.

She should've listened to Clive and added some readymade hits.

^D, I was going to poop on my back deck, but unfortunately, it is daylight.

EDIT: We had a snow storm tonight. The contrast of brown, and white, would have made it apparent.

WTF? ???

disagree. record companies just LOVE greatest hits.
it costs nothing to do and it sells a lot.

the most funny thing is : Elvis didn't write a single song if i'm correct.

but what a singer, he made them his owns. so...

Maybe a bad analogy ... liquor you know.

My thought process is pretty fucked up ... especially when liquor is involved.

Humph!!!

that is so sad.. .clive is contributing to the death of creativity.  that sucks!!!

it reminds me of a line in a drive by truckers song, Self Destructive Zones:

"And the young'uns all turned to karaoke,
hanging all their wishes upon disregarded stars"

He is talking about pop stars , but I still think it's sad.  It's different when you have friends maybe like Guns with West Arkeen , but to have someone come in and fucking write FOR you thats sickening.

I Think he makes a good point actually.

Sometimes singers ruin their carrears trying to get that one song. and that's not necessary when there's so many brilliant songwriters out there. besides, most singers in the POP music scene don't really strive for their recognition as a musician, they strive for stardom, and that can be achieved by getting good songs from someone who can actually write them.

Ozzy is known for his vast catalogue of music that's not his to begin with, still no one questions his impact in heavy metal.

i guess it could work both ways, not everyone is a butch walker ( he's just a great songwriter and actually manages to sell his hit songs to other multi platinum artists) or an Axl Rose  ( Even though axl suffers from not having a hit single for more than a decade) or even an eddie vedder ( i dunno how's he doing lately with hit singles, but i reckon he's very prolific)  that can actually sing a deliever great music.

it's really up to the artist to decide. and the record company, well they're not there for the music part, they're for the business part, so i see why they'd think like that, and i can't really blame them, it's where they make money and that's what they do.

This guy gets a lot of credit in the music industry for some reason.  I personally don't think it takes a genius to listen to an album and pick out the 2 songs that will work on the radio.

As for singers writing their own songs....he may just be trying to find a creative and nice way to say Kelly Clarkson shouldn't be writing her own songs.

With enough money to buy crack?

Seriously...fuck this guy.  What an idiot.  First, it waters down music to a collection of songs.  Can you imagine Dark Side of the Moon as just a collection of songs?  Or [insert random Beatles album]? 

Second, he seems to believe that music is about singing.  The vocal centric approach, over bland, uninspired instrumentation, is one of the major reasons why music sucks so much.  Put together a talented band.  Not some flavor of the month 20 year old girl with a decent (but rarely wonderful) voice.  We have enough "girl who plays piano and sings" acts...remember the guitar?  And the beats that come from drums, rather than synths?  Yeah...those were the days. 

This is highly dependent on the artist, etc.

Should GNR have some dude write a bunch of pop songs for them? No, of course not.

Should random pop star X? Probably.

Some people have amazing voices but just can't write a decent song or don't have an ear for pop, it is a valid point. And there are some people that just have the right voice for a song. Others have already mentioned Elvis and Frank Sinatra, but even look at what GNR or Johnny Cash have done with covers - brilliant stuff.

I'm not saying I agree with Clive Owen completely, but you have to look at it in context.

P.S. It was Kelly Clarkson's third album that she did her self, it wasn't very good by pop standards (the songs weren't catchy, etc.), but very good for as a singer/song-writer.

 :P

I think he's saying pop artists who are talented vocally should not be forcing the situation to "write their own songs" if they aren't any good at it.  I haven't heard the Kelly Clarkson album, but I'm assuming that his take on it was that she is a sub-par songwriter (considering the type of music that suits her abilites = pop music with hooks).  Isn't it a waste of talent to have someone with an incredible voice singing poorly crafted songs that no one will ever hear because they wanted to "go it on their own"?

If Kelly Clarkson truly believes in her artistic vision, then she shouldn't compromise her music... finish your current contract and sing what they tell you to sing, THEN give it a go at releasing your own material.  These "Idol" age pop-stars shouldn't think they suddenly have the gift of songwriting just because they won a karaoke contest.  In the same way that Andre 3000 shouldn't think he can act just because he won a Grammy for album of the year. 

Should Phil Spector try to sing on all of the songs he produces?  Should Elton John force himself to write his own lyrics?

I don't blame pop artists for using songwriters, it's still each individual's decision what/what not to listen to.  The music industry has barriers to entry for bands who play instruments/write their own songs/compose "albums" instead of "hit singles"/aren't 100% based on hooks... but this is not the fault of the talent involved in pop music.  Singers and writers should continue doing what they enjoy and what they do best.  However, these stars shouldn't participate in contracts that require them to sing exclusively and then decide, once they've sold albums and gained an audience, that they want to be a "complete artist" while still working with the people who are only interested in your voice.  The pop princesses can struggle with the rest of the artists out there if they truly want "artistic freedom"... if you signed on to be a star because you have a powerful voice, then shut up and sing! (Oxymoron?)

Clive Davis urges singers to stop writing songs

However... "You have got to go over the best material, and that should win out, not withstanding any track record. I don't care how many No. 1's you have written in the past, have you written a new No. 1?" -- This guy is a dick because of his opinion that a 'No. 1' indicates what the 'best material' is.  The best material should be released, but "Hollaback Girl" and "Crank That Soulja Boy" don't fall under that category based on being No. 1 hits.

Why is anyone surprised by this?  The #1 show on American television is a karaoke competition called American Idol.  For about 6 months each of those contestants is loved by America, but once they are booted from the show, they are forgotten about forever.  How many of the American Idols have made it big?  Maybe 10 people out of thousands that have appeared?  Kelly Clarkson proved that everyone of those people needs the record company to make them famous.  Sometimes the record companies can't even do it (Taylor Hicks, Katherine McPhee).  It's people like Chris Daughtry who have the most success.  He was lucky to not win the competition. Until the public stops saying that they want a robot of a popstar all over their television screen, this is what we're stuck with.  Problem is... this show gives way too many untalented people 15 minutes and Americans are eating it up.  He's just making a buck off people's stupidity and willingness to accept what they are spoon fed.

Clive Davis Steps Down as Head of BMG Music

4/18/08, 10:00 am EST

Famed record industry figure Clive Davis will relinquish his post as CEO of the Sony BMG Music Group. Davis will reportedly take on another creative post at the label. Barry Weiss, chief of the company?s Zomba Label Group, will take over Davis? role. Over the course of his fifty-plus-year career, Davis also served as president of Columbia Records, where he signed Janis Joplin, Pink Floyd, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel and many more. Davis also founded Arista Records, which he fronted for twenty-six years, and J Records. He was also inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2000. If this is Davis? final week on the job, he went out with a bang: One of his most recent signees, Leona Lewis, became the first British solo artist to have the debut album debut on the albums charts at number one. To see an in-depth look into Davis? prestigious career, from his biggest hits to pictures with his most notable artists, check out this photo gallery. Click here to read Rolling Stone?s February 2008 profile on Clive Davis, ?The Last Record Man.?

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/04/18/clive-davis-steps-down-as-head-of-bmg-music/

I've never heard of the bloke but he's definately a bit of a prick to be saying things like that.  It's time people stopped labelling people like Whitney etc as 'artists' anyway seeing as they clearly aren't artists.  I'm so glad I don't listen to the radio or watch tv anymore.