Here Today... Gone To Hell!

i don't know if this question has been answered yet so i'll go ahead:

we know CD according to the band is finished.

is there a slight chance the record company won't feel satisfied with it and may order changes to be made?

i dont imply this is what i think is happening,i just want to know whether it is only

axl and the band who decide that the record is done and good enough to hit the stores.

If something had to be fixed, I assume it would've been taken care of months ago.

So I don't think there's an issue with the artistic side of the album.



/jarmo

The only remaining question is: why is the record company blocking the release? Any thoughts? Or is this already discussed?  :peace:

Anyhow; I still think Chinese Democracy is a stupid name for the 'CD'....  :P

Maybe, they have not reached an agreement yet  about the album  promotion  ,  maybe   they are blocking the release just to make Axl pay for all the continuous  delays and  for breaking   all the deadlines  established by the record company to  deliver the finished album . 

Maybe the records company wants  to recover  some of the money  invested  in the album  cause they know that  with the actual state of the music industry  they  never going to recover  it ,    maybe  they want to make him pay for trying to block the release of the greatest hits .

Maybe Axl is still doing the final arrangements ,  maybe someone is re recording  Brain's tracks  , maybe the album doesn?t exist and never existed ? really  I don?t know  but Axl has fucked so  many people in the business during this years  that  I don?t think anybody in his record company is willing to help and trying to make his comeback easy

lots and lots of money has been invested in cd (so all the rumours of gnr being dropped by geffen are bs at this point). everybody involved wants it to sell as good as possible. figuring out the right strategies for promotion and release is one thing. geffen/universal can't risk cd to flop. neither can axl (if he wants more records released by the revamped gnr). the music business is in a general crisis. so is rock music. recruiting money, getting an overwhelming publicity for a product that might not sell (in times like these) is possibly hard. that's the other side. 

additional to that, axl seems to be thinking about what comes after cd as well. if it's supposed to be a trilogy the current negotiations might not all be about cd. my guess is that the choice of the first single could also be something they discuss intensely. so all in all there's much at stake for everybody. that's why it might take a little longer than we'd expected.

digital rights.

In other words, the record company is pulling off the same shananigans that Axl was pulling off between 1994 and 2006 when the record company was dying to pull off a release. If this is really an eye for an eye, we won't see a new GNR music release until 2020 (12 years).

Axl may unfortunately be getting a bitter taste of his own medicine.
We as fans are the losers as well.

MNW

That's probably the main reason why it's not out yet, if it's up to the record company now. And it's a good thing IMO. Don't you guys want it to sell as good as possible? That would help Axl release more records after CD. Make it a trilogy if he wants to. But if they release it now without a good plan, it may not sell enough to make that possible!

Axl's making them money every day without them having to do anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people at the record company weren't even there last time they had to put out a new GN'R album. So it's not like they worked for the money GN'R is still bringing them. ;)



It's pretty simple. How do record companies make money? They put out records.

If they stop putting out records, let's see how much money they're making.  :P



If they have issues with artists working on their own schedule, they're in the wrong business. Music is still art, even though they've tried hard to make it into a product like any other product.

If they had focused more on the art instead of the business, maybe people would still be buying music..... But instead we're told to buy the current Idol winner's album or whoever else is the current flavor of the month until the next product comes along.





/jarmo

I certainly don't have an understanding what's going on behind the scenes, but it seems pretty black and white to me.

Release the album. Make money. The hype and mystery surrounding the album will certainly make it sell moderately well, let alone a solid marketing plan and those don't take 12 months to plan.

I'm sure there is a good reason and all I've got is precious time, but it's seems that my puzzler has puzzled until my puzzler was sore.
 ???

I can see where you're coming from, but it seems like many people think of the record company as an enemy. IMO; they're not, and I'm sure they at least want to milk CD for all it's worth. And that means they should put as much money in promoting the album as possible...

But who knows. Maybe they will invest in the next Idols winner instead.  ;)

 :peace:

Indeed. Music business didn't go down only because Internet & downloading came along. Shitty records and "hit singles" were bigger problem. People could download that one good song from otherwise poor record, so ta-dah, record-sales went down, big time.

If Axl can pull this gig to an satisfying end, he sure has kicked industrys balls. Fucking stubborn rebel  ;)

I'd say marketing would be a big issue.  There's a lot of options and planning it just the right way isn't going to be easy.  Do you do tv ads, posters, life size cardboard band cutouts?  There's a lot of details that need to be covered and then there's the artwork associated with such, the printing, the pressing, the shipping, etc.  I don't know how long it takes, but it certainly isn't overnight.  Probably once they get all those details hammered out, then they'll get the ball rolling of notifying stores and begin the (I hope) media blitz.

or maybe the label really has dropped gnr...

Neither the artist nor the record company make that much money with releasing CD's anymore.

If the band is smart, they hook up with a good (concert) promoter and sell their album on their own label, using the infra structure of a record company for sole distribution and their concerts to make the quick money.

The whole internet / digital right thing is a little overrated I think. In a time where music became a product and the audience is satisfied with a virtual download rather than having a physical CD, the future of the music industry is not downloading or selling CD's, it is live concerts and live concerts only.

http://www.geffen.com/artist/default.aspx/aid/149

http://new.umusic.com/Artists.aspx?Index=2



/jarmo

we haven't beaten this dead horse before...

 ::)

btw... what are we gonna do to celebrate Jarmo's 20,000th Post???  :peace:

Ban him.

For a day.

 ;)

I think they are waiting for a summer release to be honest with you guys.  Rock albums do better in the summer time so I think that's what the label is doing.

Question of the day:   Remember the Glam metal scene and Guns N' Roses came in and killed it.  Now you look at today's music Emo Panic of the Disco, My Chemical Romance , Simple Plan ect  Do you think GnR could do the same thing once they release Chinese Democracy ? restore Rock n Roll.

This forum would go to absolute shit within minutes of him leaving... 19,000 of his 20,000 post are shutting up VR and Slash deciples.  :hihi:

that and correcting rumors and bullshit people post... oh yeah and telling people that he is dictator of Jarmoland and he says what goes on. it's pretty sad... he wouldn't have so many posts if there was a mandatory I.Q. test when you register. That would eliminate atleast 60% of dumbasses...  :yes:

OT, but I think he HAS eliminated at least 60% of the dumbasses already. Just take a look at mygnr and you'll see what I mean.  ;)

Hey Jarmo, I'd like to ask your thoughts -

Based on your own personal opinion, and possibly even some information that you have been able to get
from sources close to the band, do you really believe that the record company may be holding up the release of the album?

Obviously your not Axl Rose's personal business assistant to know so much, but do you really believe the album might come out this year, based on all the speculation?

Now I just want to make it clear, since obviously its hard to understand someone's intention in asking a question just by reading text, but this is a serious question and not sarcastic in any way - I would genuinely like to know your thoughts.

Thanks.

Ben.

WHy ask when u already should know some of your questions if u look into how to release an album, how to promote it, how to make money of it etc etc...

I'm not sure if that comment was directed in response to my question, but if it was -

Yes, I am aware of the process in releasing an album. I've commented on this a number of times in this postboard.

But I am just putting it out there OUT OF INTEREST, to ask Jarmo what his thoughts are.

In my opinion, I don't think the band and/or Axl has any interest in keeping the album from being released.

It's done, why wouldn't they want to release it? Makes no sense to me.

The thing that does make sense to me is that they wouldn't just release it until they know everything is just right, everything is in place for its release. And I'm not talking about the artistic side. The music is done.

It's like training for the Olympics and then finding out that part of the team isn't as prepared as you are.


And if any of you are already thinking of attacking me for "thinking I'm the band's spokesperson", fuck off.  : ok:



/jarmo

No Jarmo sorry I wasn't trying to imply you are a spokesperson by the way I asked the question..

I was just interested to know your own thoughts, since I know that you spend so much time addressing other people's comments, I don't know if anyone has given you a chance to say what you think about it lol

That comment wasn't aimed at you.  :)



/jarmo

So true!!  :)

I just hope we someday will found out what took so damn long to put the record out. Axl should write a book. "Chinese Democracy - The Story". Wouldn't that be awesome :D

^ it would be longer than like the chronicles of narnia...

yeah...

the chronicles of Chinese Democracy...

9 volumes... plenty or reading material.

What is the point of a question to which one already knows the answer...?

What if this were'nt a rhetorical question...?

There was an article (http://music.guardian.co.uk/pop/story/0,,2241769,00.html) about the record industry in the Observer a few weeks ago.




/jarmo

The record company is in it for the money.  As much money as possible.   I'd speculate that they want to ensure that they see the maximum possible return on Chi Dem possible, and they're probably trying to come up with new ways to ensure that happens.

Sure - it's just a record.  But it has the stigma attached to it and they'll probably be looking at how they can leverage this.   Personally, I don't see Chi Dem changing the music world.  I think it'll go down as just another record.  But if they can get creative on the release and maximize their revenue then they owe it to their shareholders to do that.

2008 is a huge year for all things Chinese..... 

The Beijng Olympics are China's way of positioning its self as the new global superpower.  Our politicians in the West are greasing up to them to make money (Gordon Brown I'm talking about you you spineless cretin) while glossing over/ignoring the atrocities and lack of basic human rights that goes on in much of that country while we in the West are happy to buy ther cheap clothes and toys that are made there. 

Perhaps an Album, entitled Chinese Democracy by the band that doesn't give a fuck will land splash right before the Olympics, opening up the debate and bringing with it massive attention - not just onto China but the fact it is by Guns N Roses, and album that has been so long in the making is itself a story.  Time the two events and you have a something of significant interest to people all arund the world and loads of FREE publicity.....

I'm thinking a release date timed in the run up to the Olympics would be the ideal time to drop this CD.... 

Axl is smart, not stupid,
I mean alot of people probably think that he will drop it the 8/8/08 which is the first day of the olympics
but at the same time
wont the olympics be taking up all the promotion/marketing/air time on tv etc
So thus overshadowing gnrs chinese democracy release,

I think it would be absolutely stupid to release it whilst the olympics is on,
mabye before the olympics starts, or when the olympics finishes,



Gnr arent like normal bands, so thinking logically is your down fall, they will do something to their own accord,
and just say that if gnr did release the cd during the olympics,
and it does sell well, its just another opportunity for the critics to say that it only sold well because of the free publicity of the olympics...

I personally think the only reason why chinese democracy isnt out yet
is cause ot 2 reasons.

1st, There isnt a full proof marketing plan ready to be initiated yet;
they are going to want to maximise as much of a return on this product as possible, for obvious reasons,
so their looking at every nook and cranny and any glitch in the marketing of cd and weed it out.

2. Their waiting for a perfect time to release it (similiar to 1)
when there arent any great music/bands on the airways for gnr to compete with, they
are most likely want to have the airwaves clean of any rivals that might overshadow any gnr singles/release/videos etc.
I mean , if you look at timberland and various other pop shit artists, their all big in the world at the moment,
but its just a phase, it will pass.. People will get sick of this kind of music and then move on , or hope for a nice change,
something to break up or the boring mediocre pop shit. thats where gnr comes in..

Very very profound Mr L.  : ok:

All I see are little MTV babies, playing their little MTV game - Blood for Blood - Aint Like you.

Thanks for posting this, jarmo, it was a very interesting read from someone who clearly knows his stuff.  I loved the part about the Yardbirds singer refusing to go on stage because he hadn't got a clean pair of socks.  ;D

His comment (below) about respecting and valuing the artist is something I wholeheartedly agree with, but apart from maybe a few individuals working within a company, I can't see this principle ever being adopted by those at the top who're only out to line their pockets.

"The artist, rather than the record, should be the product. Artists should be developed for longevity, not for quick profit."


I like your thinking, Yossarian, and according to those HSBC adverts that keep appearing on my telly, the Chinese believe that the number 8 is supposed to be lucky and bring prosperity.  Oh and by the way, I'm right with you about Gordon too.  : ok:

To be fair, most record companies are not in the business of art, their in the business or business. Artists are in the business of art. I know that is obvious but sometimes I get the impression people on this forum think the record companies should have some sort of moral dilemma about earning the most they can. In my opinion anything else would be irresponsible, that?s their job.

true, music is an art form
but in todays world where the internet exists, and therefore illegal downloads exist,
music is now a business, well at least trying to be one,

If it wasnt for business , music wouldn't exist,
how would the band get paid?
why would a band make music? out of boredom,
answer is no, they would make it to get popular and to get paid...
at the end of the day, all the gnr contracts between ex band members, recent and perhaps mabye future band members/ gnr employees
are all in the band/have worked for the band THUS creating music/art
because of a legal document, which states what business entitlements they are given...

one thing always leads to another, its good to think outside the square

Do you not think it'd be preferable (and more profitable in the longer term) for art and business to work in a mutually beneficial way instead of one that often sees the artist's talent exploited for short-term profit?  I'm not saying that it's likely to happen because today's society is so fixated on instant gratification and disposability, but there are some areas of the retail industry that have shown that it's possible to make a profit whilst trading in a fairer way, so it wouldn't be beyond the record companies capabilities if they were of a mind to.

I'm afraid that I have little sympathy for those high level record company execs who have seen their bonuses disappear; I feel that they're reaping what they've sown...

Could be, but then again it could be something altogether different that we haven't fathomed . Only the record execs and GnR know what is in the pipeline and until one of them confirms something we can guess and surmise as much as we like.  Hell it might be that Universal are saying change the CD name cos we dont want to upset China, and if you keep that name it will be banned in China which is a massive market - billions of people growing in wealth - and Axl is standing by his original nomenclature?

Oh..Read my last line - " In the Run up to the Olympics" - could be dropped two months before the games launch.  I agree launching at exactly the sametime would be too cynical...

I don't believe CD is in state where both Axl and record company feel it is 100% finished and  "sealed " and ready for release.
If this was the case, I'm sure there would have been an announcement of some sort.  Regardless of wether or not there is some unlikely-as-hell freaky "record company waits til the time is right and they are still wondering how  to promote album!"scenario that 50% of the people here seem to believe for some odd  reason.

..And no, I don't count some fishy half assed  2 line long email from some random newGNR member as "announcement" ( why is everyone 100% sure it's a legit email anyway?)

Don't dream: 40+ old rockers have never changed anything. If something happens in music, 20-year old brats will do it.

Chinese Democracy might be a lot of things, but it wont start any trends.

Wheres Mysteron when you need him. Normally he would pop up and dismiss something or fuel speculation by leavinga  cryptic 1 to 2 line message  :hihi:

well I'm guessing Chinese democracy may be able to finally kill rock n roll.
every 20 yr old brat that changed the scene tried it and failed.

he posted at mygnr yesterday. there are no plans for a tour and gnr are still on universal. "as of now" the record is going to come out this year........whatever

You think a "The album is done and ready for release but there's no release date" announcement would be a good idea?



/jarmo

I was sooooooooooooooooooo freakin excited when I heard this on the Loop in Chicago yesterday. They usually don't say stuff that is not true because they have been sued in the past and all the DJ's joke about watching what they say. Anyway, this DJ that was on while I was driving home from work, said that the producer of "Appetite for Destruction", they said his name but I can't remember, told everyone that the record is in the can - both sides are fine with it - the hold up is the negotiation of how the monies will be distributed - Axl is in negotiation with Geffen over where any money earned will go.

So, this could take awhile because I know Axl probably won't back down. But, the producer wanted to make a comment because of all the negative media surrounding this disc, how long it's taken, does it exist, will we ever hear it. So, basically he is confirming everything is done but money negotiations. He said the guys really want this out in 2008 but if it takes longer to negotiate a fair deal, then that's what they will do.

I believe this based on all the rumors and speculations about concerts. I think the band is gearing up because they might have something worked out over the next couple months. I believe we will see CD in 2008!

Yes, would be great idea.
I imagine it would make the wait a lot less frustrating for fans. "Atleast Axl is done with it!!"
Also, I imagine it would remove a huge fucking chip from Axl's shoulder: "Phew. Atleast *I* am done with it, and whatever further delays might occur are due to shit out of my reach and everyone knows it."

I'm sure most of these frustrated fans are aware that the album is done.

Some just don't think it matters because they just want it out. So whether or not it's done is irrelevant for them and thus a statement like that would make no difference.




/jarmo

I agree that most probably believe that CD is done, me included.  But yeah, saying "Hey it's done, and will be available as soon as we figure out how to get it to you" would help to some extent, because with Axl there's always that thought that he could go "You know what, this part isn't right, let's redo it."  Not necessarily right, but I at least think people think that way . . .

you mean he couldn't go 'You know what, this part might not right any more being held up for some time. lets redo it :D ' if he made a statement like that?



incidentally, it's GNR's lucky number as well. according to me. :peace:

If it gets held up long enough to become outdated again then it's all over.

see? Such a statement wouldn't help.

But it won't happen so what's the big deal!!!  Nay, it's not like he's reading this!!!!

all I'm saying is that sceptic peep will still be sceptical unless the cd update includes a concrete date.

when there's a high probability of it being in the not too far distant future, no need to make an intern report.

Some people just don't think before they type or they just like to type too much. I don't know. But I highly fucking doubt it's going to get outdated. Did AFD get outdated? Fuck no. Did the Illusions? Fuck no. What about the songs they covered off TSI. All in unison: FUUUCK NO.
So why the hell would someone think this is going to get outdated between now and when it gets released?

If that's true then its very good news. It definitely makes sense. Thanks for posting that.

I thought so too. ;) I assume this DJ is alleging Mike Clink said this. It definitely jives with what Mysteron has alluded to and a few other internet rumblings. :yes: The biggest hurdle in my humble opinion is getting a completed record that the record company agrees with. Everyone has to be satisfied with the songs chosen and the tracklist. Someone will eventually give on the money stuff. :hihi:

Mike Clink, who is awesome. I really hope that he's involved with the project.


Hopefully before fall. I like the idea of a summer release.

That all sounds very legit, but I'm very skeptical about DJ's.  They've proven to know very little over the years.  Of course, one of these times someone's gonna get it right.  Maybe this is it.

I didn't think it was going to get out-dated . . .  ???  ::)  But I don't think it's going to just sit around much longer either.

Dude in all fairness, a mid 80s production as is sounds 20yrs old now and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
The first several Zep albums are amazing although sounding as dated as other 70s classic albums.
Those became antique.

Music itself may be timeless but the recorded sounds can't escape the times. and often the lyrics either.
They reflect the spirits of the age.

It's sorta like in old fashion magazines the models are pretty but the style is dated no matter how classy it is.
The fashion won't be exactly the same even when the look is in again.

In axl's own words.

"there were a lot of recording techniques and certain subtle styles and drum fills and things like that that are kind of '80s signatures that subtly could use a little sprucing up... a little less reverb and a little less double bass and things like that."

It'll all sound real fresh in July - that's my call, July!   : ok:

I wouldn't worry about anything sounded dated.  The new songs are better than any new songs that are out today.

yes sir/ma'am

***personal opinion only following***
the recordings of the new music is all that I can bring myself to listen to lately that really interests me.
Sure, some might say that the quality of the new songs doesn't stand up compared to the 'classic' GNR songs.
But most of the new music coming out today is the same.
It's either retro garage rock, emo screamo, Zeppelin rip-offs, weird electronic-punk hybrid stuff or radiohead/muse-esque art rock.
Now if anybody is a fan of the new music out there today, this is not a criticism at all, this is just an observation that most of the bands coming out sound similar.
What we've heard so far from Axl is something that is missing from music today.
Real classic rock music that doesn't sound deliberately 'retro' or outdated, as a 'style'
And of course, great lyrics.

It's all a conspiracy. There is no album. Axl's been funneling the record company's money to orphans in Brazil.

But on the upside, the orphans are being taken care of! : ok:

Erm...Mike? Clink?

MIKE CLINK?!?!?!

How the hell would he know?

He probably reads the forum at HTGTH.

im sure alot of people read the forums too.

Sorry to bump this up, but has ANYONE seen the proposed letter from Interscope Records?

It was posted here, but i think it was removed. I'm not sure why tho... Never got to know if it was real or not or if it was inteded as an open letter.

Fake.



/jarmo

Oh, that thing was brutal... it was like when someone tries to either quote the bible and makes up the parts they can't remember, or when someone just tries to sound "bible-y"... throw in some "thou", "thy", "knoweth", some filler words... expand some abbreviations in a poor attempt to sound "official-er."

I think I did something like that to pad a book report to the required minimum... when I was 10.

I kept reading it, hoping it would at least turn out to be slightly funny... not even close.

FFS. So music maybe art, but musicans are not artists? It is a little annoying to think that greed is holding the CD up after all this time. Sorry to sound so negative, but I would question where the bands priorities lie. Making music or squeezing as much money out as they possibly can?

I think it is obvious... if it wasn't about music. we would have had EPs, a re-recorded AFD, Axl line of shoes and shirts, etc...

I wouldn't fault the band for knowing that the record company IS FOR DAMN SURE interested in squeezing as much money out of them as possible, and demanding their fair share.

I'm not being negative and 'a watched kettle never boils', but this is getting ridiculous. And I mean that for the band.

Sure there's the business side for the record company, but I feel badly for Axl (and the other members), for stuff always going wrong and being a huge struggle. He's worked really hard on what I think will be a wonderful piece of art and self-expression only to be cock-blocked by legalities. I know what that's like and its a continuous frustration. Never can shake it until it's completed or resolved. 

Maybe Axl doesn't feel that way or doesn't care, but hey I'm identifying with the music already. I just hope that things can be resolved and go swimmingly for once so that Axl can reap as much of an award as the immense effort that he put into the album/tours and the band members can be known by all for the tremendous talents that they are, and that Guns N' Roses can set the paradigm that they did 20 years ago.

So in short,  take care of what needs to be taken care of to help the band achieve that.  :)

I thought the band already had a contract with a label. To attempt to renegotiate when they already have a deal, is bad enough, but to do so when the album has taken so long, is as I said greed. There is no other word for it. It isn't like there was no deal already in place. I guess they have just decided they want a better one than the one they previously agreed to.

Always good to see another expert of record companies.

Have you considered that perhaps, for instance, when they first started making the record that things like digital downloads weren't accounted for?

Yes I have. Why do *you* think digital downloads make any difference?

True, but at the same time, theirs many ways around this, and the Record company, as many other record companies have learned to adapt to the changes of the music industry. Sure, its hard to make a profit on music in todays society, but at the same time,
just as technology has moved forward, so has the way of releasing music in different ways, and different ways of marketing/cashing in.
The record company has had like what, 5- or so years to adapt to the age of digital downloads,
Its not like its happened overnight, Napster was the start of the digital music evolution, and that is , off memory, over 7 years ago, so
Its the record companies fault for not changing with the times, and just sitting back  with fingers crossed hoping that everyone will go out and spend 30 bucks on
an album again. The people who stand still are the people that get left behind.

The record company need to have a good marketing plan implemented such as (this was mentioned in the marketing thread)
Have like 250 000 Cds ready for pre order, and until every order has been sold, only then Release the cds to the people who have pre purchased it
this maximises sales thus profit/etc. Kinda like a hostage tactic, which is necessary in todays world when dealing with pirates.

I am not sure why so many think the "hostage tactic" will solve all the problems. Simply buy 10 copies, and then return 9 of them via the "Distance Selling Act" or whatever your local version is..

So an artist shouldn't get paid for digital album sales because it's not mentioned in the original contract that was drafted out before the invention of digital downloads?



/jarmo

The whole dynamic has changed with digital, no manufactoring costs to speak of, distribution from a central source and above everything else, the costs that once were claimed by and agreed in respect of the label have shrunk, thus meaning a whole lot more wedge for the label without doing anything.

The %ages of costs would be needed to be re arranged to cope with the 2008 situation rather than what was agreed in the last century   :-X contract...

It seems logical that contracts work on "product sales", unless you are claiming that everyone had to rush to redo contracts when tapes came out, then when CD's came out, then DVD's etc. If you have any information to share on this, I would be more than happy to read it, otherwise it looks like a cash-grab (which I have defended the band against when it comes to tours).

Not that I have any problem with it, *except* when people claim that GnR are some kind of mythical band who are doing it purely for the art. They are not. They are band like any other, who want to profit from their record like any other. Lets stop turning Axl into the messiah.

Oh, and before you claim that the contact would be specific on formats (rather than product sales), then the label would have no right to publish it digitally either without the bands consent (unless you are going to claim that the renumeration is based on CD/tape, while the publishing rights are done with broad sweeping statements).

No they don't. It isn't the labels fault that the album too so long as do. It was a contract that the band still have not fulfilled.

As I said though, I have no problem with the band going for more money as long as everyone recognises it as such.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but artists get paid a percentage of the price of a LP, cassette or CD.

In the case of digital downloads, shouldn't the percentage be different since the distribution method differs from traditional releases?




/jarmo

You tell me? I thought the artist gets a % of the price for each sale. I don't know if it differs by media type or not in their contract.

As I said though, if it does, then obviously LP, Cassette, and CD are in the contract. That is why the label can release the album on those formats right? If digital downloads are not listed in the contract, but the other formats are, then the label cannot release on that format anyway since it hasn't been included. So again, it comes down to the band wanting more money which every way you dice it.

As I said though, I have no problems with the band wanting more money, lets just all open and accept it for what it is.

or the label wanting more money. :-* it depends on from what angle you're looking at it.
either way it's still a rumour we don't know if there's any truth to it.


quarky, making something purely for the art doesn't make the artist a messiah.
to be greedy for good music, that's also greed. we're all somewhat greedy.

I don't think things are that easy.

Everybody knows that music sales have declined.

Bands put out music for free because they know they can make more money other ways.




/jarmo

I don't know if Axl could do this but could he buyout he and the bands contract from Geffen and take the album to say Live Nation and sign a deal with them and a tour ?

Agreed.  The music - free or otherwise - is used to fuel concert tickets, merchandise, and any and all other ways of generating income in light of dwindling album sales.  However, I think that the key phrase in what you wrote is "bands put out music."  I have no doubt that new GnR music would fuel the touring and merchandise machine, but first, they have to actually release something in some form.  Which brings us back full circle to all of the various "what's the holdup now?"  discussions.   It seems reasonable to assume that *everyone* wants the music released, leaving speculation to legal issues, format and timing of album(s) release, etc.   Here's to new music, and soon!

yes, he can. it will only cost $$$$.

I bet it's a bit confusing trying to figure out who's going to get what $$$ considering the amount of people that have worked on this monstrosity of a project.  :o  :rant:

I can't wait to see the liner notes to read all the names.  : ok:

Bet ya' ten bucks that Izzy's name pops up somewhere, somehow.  :beer:

I have beeen sing and dancing ...to the same old song and dance.

I'm starting to think that there may not be that big of a hold up anymore.

meaning?????

things are moving as you sing and dance to the same old song and dance. that I suppose is the meaning.

What's changed?

I agree I think around spring time we will have what we have all waited for !!! sounds like 2008 is gonna be the summer of Rock.

War and Peace Volume 2 more like :hihi:

1: Record Companies are among the worst shyster scum on the planet. They will take any opportunity or anything that wasn't clearly spelled out in a 20 year old contract and use it to f**k the artist. PERIOD

2: Record Companies HAVE NOT gotten with the times and never will. They've had almost 10 years to get their mp3 s**t together since the free music Napster days, and yet, they still haven't cataloged the 80's music or Indy Label music into individual mp3's for sale. And the reason they're avoiding doing this is because they want to shove Britney and American Idol winners down your throat, regardless of the fact that most people like older or underground music.

Ever wonder what Jack Radio is? That's the music everyone downloaded in 2000 on Napster, and the record companies refused to catalog into individual mp3's for sale. Once everyone started turning their f**king radios off in the early 2000's, they said, "Oh shit. We better start playign stuff on the radio that we KNOW people like, otherwise the FM radio will be in the trash can." So they gave us Jack Radio.

Also, wrt those older and lesser known artists, if their songs could be purchased as individual mp3's, the major record labels wouldn't make as much money off the mp3 sales because most of those artists were on indy labels, and the major labels only had or will have a "Distribution Contract" with the Indy label. So the record companies, being the shyster scum that they are, can't even STAND the idea of not making 80% of the money from an mp3. It's not in their Fat Mafia F**k level of comprehension. Because that's all they are... Fat Mafia F**ks.

Even alot of Book Publishers are nothing but Fat Mafia F**ks. As a result, sometimes a good book goes out of circulation because the author refuses to give in to the company's Fat Mafia F**k tactics, and then he has to wait almost 20 years until his contract expires.

Nothing, and that's the thing. All the legit sources that I know know things haven't heard anything about a "huge" hold up like people were speculating about. Really,  *speculation* everything points to the record being mixed, mastered and turned in. And it really does seem to be just minor negotiations. I really think he's finally finished it.

I just have a strong feeling that "it" really his happening this year. And I haven't thought that since 2002. We've been through this before, and it's hard to get your hopes up, but something really does seem to be happening right now.

Very, very interesting take on all of this.  :nervous:

I tend to agree with most of your statements.  :'(

It`s unfortunate for all of us little people, that we get stuck in the middle when all we want to do is hear quality music.  :smoking:  :beer:

Let's just hope for the best.
This year definitely seems like the best chance to get it, even though there hasn't been any official news.
The fact that the record is completely finished to Axl's satisfaction is the best news.
Although, we don't know whats going on in terms of business/legal/record company issues.
We can only hope though, that for the sake of the fans and for the sake of the music, we won't have to wait too much longer..

I wasn't going to reply to this since it is your opinion, which is just as valid as any other, but will offer mine for arguments sake.



It is lawyers that do that. I doubt that the lawyers of the artists expect any different. If GnR were really so far over the barrel, there would be no discussions. The album would be out when the label pleases and screw the band. That clearly isn't the case.

The bands has lawyers, the label has lawyers. Between the two sets, they normally make the the contracts "reasonably" agreeable to both sides. Otherwise there would simply be no signed contract.



Or perhaps because more recent releases are bigger sellers? What is going to sell more on MP3? An average release from 20 years ago, or an average current release now? I would say that the new release is going to sell more (simply because it hasn't been out there for decades in different formats). Given that, which one are the labels more likely to concentrate on?


Never heard of it to be honest, so can't really comment..



So the labels are turning away "free" money because the % is not 80%? I doubt it. Do you really think that even if the profit was only 10%, the labels would throw away the chance to earn the money? If they did that, the shareholders might have something to say. The company has a legal obligation to the shareholders and I can't seem them ignoring that.



Well, why did the author sign the contract them? Why does he not like the contract now? Sounds like money in the example above. In which case, the label as just as much right to maximise profits as the artists do. Obviously I would like to see the artists get the lions share, but lets not make the labels out to be the root of all evil.