Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Ok, so I was listening to Use Your Illusion I the other day and I couldn?t believe what an awesome record it was. But as I was listening to it, I noticed that the second half of the record was infinitely better then the first half of the record.

If you take a look at UYI I?s track listing, you will know what I mean.

1st Half:

1. Right Next Door to Hell ? Horrible song, and bad way to start a record
2. Dust N Bones ? Great Izzy song, one of the best of the 1st half
3. Live Let Die ? The is a cover so I consider it filler, not a great cover at that
4. Don?t Cry (Original Lyric?s) ? a GNR classic, but I prefer the UYI II version better
5. Perfect Crime ? Horrible song
6. You Ain?t the First ? Ok song, but still filler
7. Bad Obsession ? Great song, this one along with Dust N Bones are the only two great songs of the 1st half of UYI I.
8. Back Off Bitch ? Bad song, to me this is a gimmick song, (muck like ?Get in the Ring? on UYI II) Total filler and a track that I skip most of the time.
________________________________________________________________________
2nd Half:

9. Double Talking Jive ? Good song, I like the way it goes all acoustic at the end
10. November Rain ? Kind of played out, but still a GNR classic
11. The Garden ? Great Song!
12. Garden of Eden ? Great Song (Love the video)
13. Don?t Damn Me ? This is one of my personal favorites ? Great song
14. Bad Apples ? Another killer song ? I love this track
15. Dead Horse ? Another of my personal favorites ? This is a rocken? track
16. Coma ? This is one of the best GNR songs EVER and it?s also one of the most under rated. I love the guitar parts and the lyrics are some of the best Axl has ever written

So, as you can see, I think the 2nd half is way better then the first. I really don't understand the track listing for this record. Shouldn?t the great songs come at the beginning of the record, and all the filler songs come at the end? To me, this record is all upside down.

I know everyone has there one opinion, and this is just mine, but I?d like to see if anyone else agrees with me. (You can disagree too, that's ok)

Ben

i think you meant to say the reverse of that.

but anyways, personally, i love some of the songs you that said were horrible

i thought Right Next Door to Hell was a great way to open up, and i absolutely LOVE Perfect Crime, and the others as well.

I enjoy most of the songs on UYI 1.   Only one I usually skip over is Bad Apples

Thanks for catching that. I obviously mean that the Second half is better that the First. (I just changed the wording in my original post). I just don't think that songs like "Right Next Door to Hell" and "Back off Bitch" can be compared to songs like? "Coma", "Don't Damn Me" and "Dead Horse" (The latter being better than the former, of course).

haha, i wanted to let you know before people started being douches like they usually are and start to be like "oh no! oh no! i dont know about this!! now youre starting to contradict yourself! wheres the info to back this up??"

but anyways, personally, i love all of UYI1. i know alot of people say that UYI2 is better, but for me, as an album I personally like 1 better - though 2 does have some of my absolute favorite tracks.

well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but why make a thread about something that is completely subjective?

the UYI records aren't my favorite. i feel a lot of songs are filler crap. most don't stand out IMO. Some are great and some are mediocre at best.

u can definately feel that there is a total distance between some songs.

RNDTH and Perfect Crime  are great songs, Way better than The Garden which Ive never been a huge fan of and I prefer them over Bad Apples as well.


I also though, like the UYI II Dont Cry better.

It took me a while to truely appreciate RNDTH.. Great lyrics..

This all about opinions... while you say right next door to hell is a bad song I say it?s awesome... the same going to Don?t Cry, LALT and Back of Bitch (which for me has one of the best intros ever). You say Dust N Bones and Bad Obsession are great whereas I can?t stand them lol. Neverthless I agree with you on Perfect Crime... it?s really bad indeed.  :hihi:
As for the second half... I agree with you... overall it?s? better than the first... I love them all... especially Don?t Damn Me and Coma.? ;)

I like most of the lyrics from UYI1 for Don't cry, however my favorite lyrics from both versions is on the 2 version when Axl sings "So many seem so lonely with no one left to cry to". Makes it worth having two versions to me.

Thanks guys for sticking up or 'Right Next Door to Hell' and 'Perfect Crime'. ?:)

However, I do agree that 'My World' was a poor song and overall UYI II was overall a better album, but it isn't supposed to be judged separately. It's Use Your Illusion!

I dont see how you think its an awesome album with so many crappy songs in it!!!  :rofl: just kidding, dude


anyway, i agree with you that the 2nd half is generally better than the 1st, but to me (remember, ME hehehe) there's not a single song in it that i do not like... i like some better than others, but i swear i like 'em all!

I think Perfect Crime its such a kick ass song that i even kinda fail to see how one would not like it, but its always how it is... its hard to understand how people won't like something you like so much!! :hihi:

UYI seemed to be a much, much hard rocking album than UYII.  Don't Damn Me is fucking heavy along with Coma. 

D, The Garden is an aquired taste, but Slash's solo rips on it and you hardly even notice the first 1,000 times you listen to it. 

I used to not like Garden of Eden, now I do. 

I like both albums fillers and all.

I couldn't agree more with u about Garden Of Eden

I hated that song for like 11 years and one day I was in a pissed mood. Heard it and it floored me. Now I love it.

The Garden starts off so awesome but I don't know......... I dont dislike it, but I usually skip it.



My ultimate UYI album if i had to choose 16 songs would be:

From UYI 1

1. Live and Let Die
2. Don't Cry
3. Bad Obsession
4. November Rain
5. Don't Damn Me
6. Dead Horse
7. Coma

UYI II

8.Civil War
9. 14 Years
10. Yesterdays
11. Knockin On Heaven's Door
12. Breakdown
13. Pretty Tied Up
14. Locomotive
15. Estranged
16. You Could Be Mine


To Me that would've been the definitive Use You Illusion

If anything had to replaced Id maybe take off 14 years and throw on Perfect Crime,RNDTH or Dust In Bones.

[quote }
anyway, i agree with you that the 2nd half is generally better than the 1st, but to me (remember, ME hehehe) there's not a single song in it that i do not like... i like some better than others, but i swear i like 'em all!

i like em all 2.  really.  although i consider 1 better than 2!

D, I thought you liked DC alt. version better? 

I agree with your UYI2 picks with DC alt. version added in.  I like RNDTH and Perfect Crime a little more than Bad Obsession though. 

There are no Horrible GN'R songs Except "My World" & "Silkworms".
Anyone who thinks "Perfect Crime" is bad needs their head checked. It was played back before Appetite (although no recording has surfaced).

UYI II is the better Half. The songs on it are so melodic and soo much laid back and rockin'. UYI I is more kick ass faster, heavier side of the Band. What kinda mood i'm in determines which CD I listen too.

^yeah, Perfect Crime, nice stuff...even better live.  Kinda like LALD (better live), which to my ears is better than McCartney's original, even better live. 

I thoroughly enjoy both UYI 1 and 2, however I agree that Right Next Door To Hell was not the best choice to lead off the record.  Its just not catchy enough.  Welcome to the Jungle I believe is the best opener to any record I've ever heard.  Typically the first track is a single.  Right Next Door To Hell is cool, but just not strong enough.

I think there is more filler on UYI 1.  2 has its fair share but overall if I HAD to rid my brain of one of the other, I'd pick UYI 2 as the one to keep, you have some amazing rockers like YCBM, pretty tied up and then just the epic songs like estranged, KOHD and civil war. 

shotgun blues is just pure crap.  Get in the Ring is a fun song, but only for "real" GNR fans I think.

What a stupid thread...I always thought that it was personal. I, for example, think that Perfect Crime is one of the best GN'R songs.

I.. kind of like the whole album?

I'm sorry, but I do disagree. Rather strongly. "Back Off Bitch" is one of GN'R's strongest songs, period. I'll never get some of the hate thrown at it. "Right Next Door to Hell" is a kick in the balls and a badass way to open a rock album. I do agree on "Don't Cry," as I prefer the alt. lyrics as well, but I find that it fits here and I enjoy having both versions to tie this album together. Yes, I do consider the Illusions one album. If I had to split them as separate releases, my preference has always been towards Use Your Illusion I. I think overall these make for a flawless album. I don't think there's any real filler here. Even "My World" is a strange experiment that somehow manages to work amidst all the excess and madness. The Illusions are my favorite album, GN'R or otherwise.

While I do agree that the 2nd half is a little better, I would strongly disagree about you saying Perfect Crime is anything but a great rock song - I think it's classic Axl to say the least

Same (IMO) for Right Next Door...  I personally think either of these songs is far better than Garden of Eden...

 
I agree with your general point, but not with some of the song choices you've chosen to make it.

Back Off Bitch is a fantastic song, in my opinion. One of the best on both Illusion albums.

I think you're high.  Back off  Bitch is one of my favorites on the albumn.  And the only song that i skip (and the only one that i don't know ALL the lyrics to) is Garden of Eden.  I hate that damn song.

That and My world are the only two bad songs that GnR ever did. 

Ouch, I have to disagree.  Garden of Eden's lyrics kick serious ass. (I am a big lyrics guy).  "Most organized religions make a mockery of humanity, our governments are dangerous and out of control..."  Nothings changed in the past decade and a half, in fact it's become even more true.  ;)

i havent listened to any gnr in a while, but i do remember thinking the 2nd half of uyi1 was better than the beginning...

hope that helps

Bad Apples ? Another killer song


this thread is an entire joke, right ?  :hihi:

Just imagine the similar conversations we could be having over a triple-album Chinese D

In general I like both UYI1 and UYI2 and Perfect Crime is one of the songs that I like more. I love breakdown too but I don?t like the final part.

my god you're right, damn shame some people are this lame

ummm Guns N Roses dont make any "bad" songs...so im confused by this whole topic... :confused:

The only songs from the first half of Use Your Illusion I that I would categorize as filler songs would be...You Ain?t the First, Dust N Bones, & Bad Obsession.

From the second half of Use Your Illusion I, filler songs would include...Double Talking Jive & The Garden.

So 16 years and 3 months ago two of the most ambitious albums ever made at that point were released. I remember waiting in line to get the albums for many hours at my local record store, a sight rarely seen these days. Opinions vary on the songs, but if your a true fan of guns n' roses then you go with where the band went. I like the faster songs more, but I can appreciate the slower more introspective songs as the guys needed to vent some different emotions. Anyway i was bored tonight and my wife is asleep, so I put together a little project that many of us probably have over the years, and I just want your opinion about it. Use Your Illusion the way it could have been. I put the older songs onto UY1 and teh more progressive songs on to UY2. to me it follows a more probable route that? the band would have gone. If UY1 was released in December 1989 like the world had hoped, and then UY2 (would have been called something else maybe) in 1991 What do you think of the list. Again older songs on the first album where they belonged, and songs showing a new direction on the later album. Discuss, and think, and have some fun. Another fun one is to try and make a perfect Illusions Record like Walmart did in 1998. Try that if your bored.
Use Your Illusion- December 1989? ? ? ?Some other title - September 1991
01.) You Could Be Mine? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?01.) Pretty Tied Up
02.) Perfect Crime? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?02.) Shotgun Blues
03.) Dust N' Bones? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 03.) 14 Years
04.) Bad Obsession? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 04.) Civil War
05.) Yesterdays? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?05.) Double Talkin' Jive
06.) Back Off Bitch? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 06.) Don't Cry - Alt. Lyrics
07.) Dead Horse? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 07.) Right Next Door To Hell
08.) Don't Cry? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?08.) So Fine
09.) The Garden? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 09.) Bad Apples
10.) Don't Damn Me? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 10.) Breakdown
11.) November Rain? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 11.) Live And Let Die
12.) You Ain't The First? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 12.) Estranged
13.) Garden Of Eden? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13.) Get In the Ring
14.) Knockin' On Heaven's Door? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 14.) Locomotive
15.) Coma? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15.) My World

The first album would've been a fantastic hit with YCBM, DC and NR as the 3 big singles.


The 2nd album however, really wouldn't have had a whole lot of single power.............................

Great post.
[small rant] I don't get it when some people start babbling about it being a bad thread because it's all just opinion. If you're on a message board expect to have discussions that range from  official news (yea right) to rumors and plenty of speculation in-between. If you don't like anything but official news threads then why post? [rant over]

I like the list above, I agree with the previous poster that the second album would have lacked in singles compared to the first but I like the play order better  like this for my personal listening pleasure.

I like UI2 better overall but both are good albums. However, I'd take AFD or Lies and then maybe a burnt CD of the best of the illusions stuff before ever listening to either of the Illusion albums. There is some filler, it's very obvious (to my ear anyway). There are a couple songs that are straight out bad and a few that are just alright and a bunch of great ones.

Still my main problem is the mix. Others have said it before but it's too processed in a horrible "arena rock" way. AFD is older and it's mix hasn't aged bad on my ears at all, sounds classic to me. UYI wasn't a great mix to my ears when it came out but it's aged even worse. I have a hard time listening to much of it anymore. Like I said, I throw on AFD, Lies or a mix CD of some UYI material and can't remember the last time I actually put the whole CD on for either I or II.

Well, that's my opinion. If I include the new stuff we've had a peek at, I think the music is stronger now (the writing) Most of what I have heard ranks in my top favorites of any GNR with TWAT being my favorite and IRS my least favorite.

So, the biggest problems I have with Illusion material is the overall cohesiveness of the album as a whole and the mix.

Trying to condense the Use Your Illusion albums into one disc is essentially impossible, unless sacrifices are made.

A compact disc can only store 80 minutes of music, and the total running time of November Rain, Coma, Civil War, Locomotive, and Estranged is just over 45 minutes..

in my opinion i think the Use Your Illusions are perfect the way they are...like it was said on the BTM it was the "good the bad and the ugly" of GNR....and considering it was the last record from the original line-up im happy that they busted their whole load(so to speak) on two full albums of everything they ever worked on...

I always thought a lot of GN'R's most underrated songs were burried on the second half of each UYI album.

Indeed  : ok:

Didn't they do this?  And agreed....  sacrifices were made!

yaeh those are some awesome lyrics in that song

Oddly enough, when I first got the albums - Back off was one of my favs and Garden of Eden was one of my  least liked songs, but now..it shows you how 15 years can change a guy!   I'm more likely to skip over Back off and play Eden

yeah I used to skip over the song Breakdown, now I love it.

I just love dead horse...
best song to make silly little comments like this one.
DEAD HORSE. 
this has been argued over time... over and over and over and over.  get over what you like that others don't like and vise versa.   

i just skip "you aint the first"  ???

Me too.

I was just wondering about this yesterday- if the Use Your Illusion records  took 13+ years to make such as how Chinese Democracy has, and if they were released after 13 years souding the exact same as the records actually do, would you say they represent 13 years of work?

My thought is that the leaks from CD are very similar, musically and wsong-writing wise, to some of the songs on the UYI records. So, if UYI had taken 13 years to make and ended up sounding the way the did in 1991, then would you say they represent 13 years of solid work?

yeah...both masterpieces

I fucking love that song. I think lyrically it's pretty bad ass and it's a pretty cool mellow song to start the day off with.

Firstly, I don't believe Chinese Democracy has been worked on for 13 years YET!  More like 8 or 9 years.  However, when all is said and done it could be 13 years worth, though I hope not.  IF we got two albums like the UYI's though, I'd be more than satisfied.  I know those albums get some flack, people say they have lots of filler, should've cut it down to one.  If that's the case, I guess I love filler.  I'm only expecting one album IF we get anything, but if we get two, oh happy day.

me too. I was amazed to see it included in the one disc version of Use Your Illusion

My ultimate UYI album would consist of:

Civil War
Dust N' Bones
Yesterdays
Locomotive
Dont Cry (Either Version)
14 Years
Breakdown
DTJ
November Rain
The Garden
Dead Horse
Estranged
YCBM
Coma

thats a sick album. Not sure if it could all squeeze onto 1 cd but it would be close.

Its not AFD in terms of radio play but it is def an epic album.

the songs that made that one disc illusions wal-mart piece of shit are only there because they have no dirty language in them.

yeah that probably true. I cant believe the tracklist on that thing. Did the band authorize that or what?

I think I'm in the minority that prefers UYI 1 to UYI 2--- although both are masterpieces, in my opinion. UYI 1 just has more balls-to-the-wall rock n' roll on it, though UYI 2 has my all time favorite song, "Estranged."

"Right Next Door to Hell" isn't my fave song on the CD, but I think it's a good opening track, just because it sounds the most like an AFD song. It's like GNR was saying "Here's what we used to sound like . . ."' before exploding into several different musical directions on the rest of the CD.

"The Garden" is probably the only GNR song I don't like . . . but the rest of the CD is perfect, imo. I don't see songs like "Back Off Bitch" and "Bad Obsession" to be filler, because I think they're freaking awesome. It seems like I've went through a period of time with each GNR tune where I was obsessed with it and couldn't stop playing it.

I don't think the UYI albums have ever gotten the respect they deserve. I don't see any of the songs as filler. Each song ranges from good to great to oh-my-God-I-just-blew-my-load-that-song-was-so-goddamn-amazing!!  I admire and respect GNR for making the UYI albums because they didn't play it safe, like most bands do. They didn't try to recreate AFD. They ventured into new territory, trying all different kinds of sounds . . . from the sing-along-at-the-bar song "You Ain't the First" to the ballad "Don't Cry" to the punk genre with "Garden of Eden."

AFD will always be my favorite CD just because it was the album that introduced me to GNR. Because of that, it'll never replaced. With that said, I think the UYI albums are the most daring, ambitious albums to date. If you consider them as one joint CD, I think it has to be considered the greatest album of all time (what other album has such masterpieces like "Estranged" and "November Rain" and "Coma" and "Civil War"?).

(Quote)gilee 7
I think I'm in the minority that prefers UYI 1 to UYI 2--- although both are masterpieces, in my opinion. UYI 1 just has more balls-to-the-wall rock n' roll on it, though UYI 2 has my all time favorite song, "Estranged."

I agree with most everything in the post especially the above sentence.

I disagree mostly with #1, #3, #4, #8 and #13.
That means that you are mostly correct on your assessment that the 2nd half is better than the 1st. Many fans like myself with say though that Live and Let Die / Don't Cry is among the top 15 GNR songs ever made.
Don't Damn Me is one of my least favs of all time because it sounds too whiny on Axl's part and he never performed it live so its harder to connect with his emotions on that song.

Such had been the example with Dust N' Bones, which I had not really liked until watching the band perform it live (like Indiana 1991) - particularty the heavy part at the end where axl spins like mad with the Mike Stand.

MNW