Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I was interested in hearing some stories on how ANY members of GN'R or their music has inspired you, be it musically or personally. Has something they've done changed you in some way? let's hear it.  :)

Truthfully Axl has always inspired me, from way back when I was a little youngster back in the 80's.  I've always sort of respected his attitude and his ability to pretty much fucking do what he pleases when he pleases.   He's the unpredictable loose-cannon. 

+1

I've always saw part of myself in Axl ever since I got into GnR in 1991.

Axl's hair, leatherwear and bikershorts, not going into detail about that :hihi:

The new band members have inspired me alot, both personally and musical influence

Robin Finck - Been a fan of him since I saw him in NIN years ago. Hearing his approach to guitar solos inspired me to try to do more guitar leads because I have been a long time guitar player but never really got into doing solos

Richard Fortus - Solid rythmn guitar player, also gave me some advice via email in my music

Bumblefoot - Given me alot of advice in guitar practicing and also recording via email

and Axl - as frustrating as it gets with him keeping his silence, i like the fact that he goes by his own watch and doesn't really care about what people want, hope for, or do or say, despite the ongoing expectations of him, he goes his own way.
Oh yeah, and he's not a bad singer either

nice post.   Robin for sure has an influence in what I would want to be in a guitar player.. haha, if i was one.   Bumblefoot too for doing what he does with his records.   He's put out so much good stuff and most of it hasn't gotten the recognition it deserves.. but he still does what he loves.    BBF really is someone I see a positive role model for musicans, and the fact that he's a teacher and is so good with the fans.    Its a shame there aren't more people like him out there.

That is really amazing to get advice directly from them. you should feel lucky. Great post!

As for me it was Steven who inspired me to play drums and got me into playing in bands. I taught myself to play by listening to "Appetite".

I relate to Axl a lot and creatively and vocally he is everything I strive to be as a musician/frontman


Slash: Greatest lead guitarist ever in my opinion. his riffs/solos are simply amazing. They are just as melodic and singable as Axl's melodies and lyrics which is so rare in my opinion.

most guitar players play a bunch of meaningless notes that sound like angry bees *Buckethead etc* whereas with Slash, it is a song within a song and takes a great song and makes it legendary.




Duff: his bass playing is also very melodic, and just so in the pocket with the drumming and adds more to the songs than most people realize.



Izzy: his rhythm guitar playing and songwriting are a huge inspiration.

Steven Adler: his drumming, like Slash's guitar are so singable and memorable. Very rarely do drums make u move the way Adler's beats make u move.

i think the discussion was about members of GnR.   Those last 4 aren't in the band.

No, it applies to ANY members of GN'R.

Hey, nice to hear that other people were inspired to play music because of GN'R.
Please continue sharing.

It was '89, and I'd rather not say.

Guns N Roses got me into rock music in 1988, which led to me picking up the guitar, which has given me hours upon hours of happiness. I now make and fix guitars, make pedals, fiddle with amplifiers etc. It can all be traced back to seeing Paradise City on MTV.

As for actual playing, there is no doubt that Slash and Izzy have influenced me. I wish I could master the instrument like Slash has. Right now, I am looking closely at rhythm, and Izzy is a strong influence when it comes to that.

I'm no drummer or singer, but I can appreciate both the drumming and singing on the albums. The lyrics on Appetite and Lies are, by and large, excellent.

Asphinctersayswhat? That's a little too cryptic...!

How can the new members inspire u when they havent released shit yet?

they inspire me cause maybe I can also cover my fav GNR songs in a sloppy way? : ok:

Slash's riffs on SCOM are the reason I picked up guitar and started listening to rock music seriously.

its got nothing to do with whats been released.  dont 'be so narrow minded.

Pretty sure it can apply to anyone that's been in GN'R at some point in time.

I have huge influence from Slash, Izzy and Robin. In fact, I'm playing (again, but in another band) as Robin cover in a new gnr cover band here.

I also have tons of my own music heavily influenced by Robin's lead. Here's a sample of a solo (recorded at home, hence the poor mix):

http://rapidshare.com/files/80789572/Rora_Refr_o___solo.mp3.html

Yeah, if you pretend to not had listen to any new song (live or demo) or any of their own approach to GNR old songs.

Also, keep your cheap shots away, please.

I love Slash's playing of course.  Any GnR fan who hasn't felt inspired by the riffs you hear ... Jungle, Sweet Child, Nightrain, etc ... I mean ... they're lying.

Axl is vocally my favorite.  Lyrically his words are so damn good.  His melodies and choices of vocal in the songs is excellent.

Robin Finck butchers the fuck out of most of my favorite GnR songs... so I hate him for that ... BUT.... his guitar style and sound on the new songs is utterly awesome and I applaud his work on them.

Richard Fortus is a superb guitar player.  Very underrated on most GnR boards ... because Axl says he's a rhythm player, most people on the GnR boards look over or in fact just simply don't care for his lead work ... but actually he's the best guitarist in GnR right now, in my opinion.  He's able to shred with the best but also pull off some sweet melodic work.

Mainly I'm a guitar guy.  So I'll always focus on that.  But I love a lot of the GnR guys ... all the old guys rock my world, and ... perhaps not all the new, but some :)

I think Richard Fortus is often overrated because he can play Slash's solos without any major change. IMO, this is actually his weak point, he seems like not original at all. His only real solo in a new song is The Blues and is far inferior to Robin's work in the same song.

Also, I don't like how he borrows things from Bucket. Seems like he's trying to hard to show skills (to play, because to write is another thing):

http://rapidshare.com/files/74493338/Richard_copiando_Bucket.mp3.html

And here's Bucket's original lick used in almost all of his fast songs:

http://rapidshare.com/files/74493474/BucketHead_Lick.mp3.html

LOL? :rofl: That's not nice..... but funny! :hihi:

They really aren't that bad. They're just different from the original members, and I take is as that. Just a different take on the songs I Love.

ADLER-GROOVE
DUFF-DTUD
SLASH-LEADS
AXL-INSPIRATION
IZZY-FUCKIN SICK

Well, that's why he's overrated. He plays some Slash solos note for note and some fans are like: Wow that guy can play like Slash, he's the new guitar hero!!!!1111111one!!!1111

I hate that, and that's why I love Robin and Ron - they are not? Slash or Bucket's wannabes. :)

Robin's work is awesome on The Blues - his solo fits perfectly the song...

Haha, its funny that some people even mention that he didn't copy Bucket. It's really clear here...
||
\/


Also, that's one thing that annoys me on Bucket. He repeats this lick again and again and agaaaaaain. Rocket Queen, November Rain, Nightrain, Out ta Get Me, Paradise City... not to mention he plays it a lot on his solo spot. :(

Oh, you mean other than want to smoke cigarettes, snort drugs and drink booze?

I Love My Parents (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwXlzy9k7jI)

Lone Sal Bug (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChE4rLJr8Do)

Buckethead > Slash.

I don't play the guitar. I used to own a bass but, well... Yeah. That all I pretty much did was own it sums it up. I would love to start playing a guitar, pick up an acoustic, but it's trouble to find the time right now. If I ever do though, it will be Buckethead that inspires me far me than anybody else I have ever heard.

I've seen you bash him a few times now, and I really am curious as to what you've heard. Buckethead has made such a varied amount of music that if you catch the wrong song in the wrong mood then you will probably just dismiss him for all the wrong reason. I did, six years ago, and I'm gutted that I didn't actually listen to his music properly sooner. Slash has never played anything, in my opinion, as beautiful as the two songs that I posted above.

Just my opinion n' all, but hey... I trust that you did give him a goonce upon a time, I just threw those two songs out there on the off chance that you haven't heard them. I'm assuming that you gave the guy a chance, and if you did and it really isn't your thing then, well, fair enough. But your criticisms of the Bucket come off as being from somebody naive to his genius! due to not actually listening to anything more than one of the shredders.

Oh, and another of my favourites:

The ODB tribute! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6nxgSAeHw) Which, surely, you have already heard, and if you have then maybe there truly is no hope for you... But image the composition of the song with Axl on the ol' vocal? Does it not get you even a little wet? Of course, maybe the verse riff would need to be altered slighty... But what about the solo from 1:51? Or just past the two minute thing if anything remotely robot ain't your thing.

Anyway. Each to his own, I guess. Ho hum.

Bringing back an old thread..

But I'm sorry, I see no reasonable justification in the criticism against Richard

He may not as an "innovative" or "unique" guitarist like Robin or Bumblefoot, but he is a very competent guitarist with good technical ability. His role in the band is not to stand out. He lays a foundation for the other guys to jam on. He is professional in his approach to guitar playing, different to Robin who is more of a blues guitarist in terms of feeling what he plays rather than working on playing it right, and different to Bumblefoot or Buckethead who are both eclectic, "virtuoso" guitarists.

Go to his website 4tus.com and check out the sound samples so you get a better idea of his abilities/range.

Bucket is great, actually the only one who had a shot at replacing Slash in my opinion.

Bumble plays the old solos pretty good, but Bucket just brought an element to the band that was awe inspiring. Bumble kind of looks like the guy working at the Mr Zip down the street.

Robin is way too sloppy for my tastes. I just am not a fan of his soloing although the Better solo is magnificent, so there is a chance I can end up liking his playing. I just hate the solos he plays live before songs and the solos he does during classic GNR songs. He sounds at times like a guy trying to constantly improvise in a sloppy amateurish way. Richard, I have no really opinion of, He seems to be a good rhythm guitarist.

See my opinion is that, nobody in the band is actually intended to replace Slash and his abilities.

All the players are bringing their own experience and elements to the table.

Also remember that none of these guitar players wrote the songs they play, so they bring their own approach to it.

I can see what you mean, but I don't think Buckethead is an appropriate direct replacement for Slash.
Buckethead is far too technical and robotic in his playing, and that is awe inspiring indeed, but Slash played with more feeling, even if he doesn't match Buckethead's technical abilities.

With all respect to your opinion, I disagree that Robin is "constantly trying to improvise in a sloppy amateurish way".
I don't know exactly what his musical background is, but I hear a very blues and even moreso jazz-guitar influence in his playing.
I'm not entirely sure how better to explain it, and I can't really think of any guitar players I can point out for you to compare him to to understand what I mean, but thats just my thoughts.

Thanks for the maturity : ok:

I hate when I give an honest assessment of Robin and people try to act like I am a "HATER"


Im glad u are able to have a serious discussion about it.


there is something in the sloppy,herky,jerky style he plays. Its almost like he tries to get too fancy or its like he tries to fit 10 notes where only 7 go....... Its hard to explain but his style really drives me crazy. I do love his work on "Better" "TWAT" is right there, I just wish at the end he'd go off a little more when Axl starts the climatic, real emotional ending.

The Blues is also decent, nothing over the top legendary

IRS could be better, especially on the solos and riffs.

No, your not a hater, your just giving an opinion, in the same manner that I'm disagreeing with your opinion for my own reasons.

I kind of know where you are getting at, but I don't know, it just doesn't sound bad to my ears.

I have to admit though that obviously his style is unique compared to other lead guitarists that you've probably heard in other hard rock bands and generally all over the radio. He's not a traditional rock lead guitarists like people would associate particularly with a band like GNR.

He hasn't really gone on record talking about what inspired him to take up guitar and who his influences are, but I remember a brief mention on his website that he is a fan of old blues guitarists.

Maybe I'll put this as a question to him on his official website, even though it hasn't been updated since July 2007.

Thats a great assessment dude. Although I will tell you this...Richard is an awesome player! He really is....Dont know if uve heard any of my stuff on this board, but I play guitar, and as soon as I heard Richard, I knew he could not only play, but could deliver sweet melodies consistently and w/o sloppy elements.

Robin is cool and works for a few reasons. Most importantly, he has a cool image and can play rhythm well. His lead playing isn't that great, but his riffs are cool. Like, his new intro to Chinese Democracy is fckn slammin. His Better riff is really cool. Its when he has to solo in a live setting, and I totally understand this, is when he shows a lack of skills. But, he can do it. Its just not mind-blowing like BH, sweet like Richard, creative like Izzy, impressive as BF, or...dare I say...put it all together like Slash. Slash just isn't on par with BH or BF in terms of technique, but he his good, creative, has amazing feel, outstanding tone, an amazing look...i mean, Slash is rocknroll, thats why everything worked so well.

But, other than BH/Slash, Robin kills all of them in the image category, and that makes all the difference in the world of music and entertainment.

BF.....is obviously a great player. An amazing player. He's no BH, but then again, who is? But he does kinda look like your neighborhood Sam Ash worker, but in the Keys dept.

Thats very true and a great point.


My top 5 influences are:
1.Slash
2. Prince
3. John Frusiciante
4. Ace Frehley
5. Joe Perry/Richie Sambora


As u can tell by those guitar players, That is what I like, Great riffs, Melodic earth shattering solos etc etc.

So thats probably a good reason why my ears aren't hearing what others hear.

Agree.

Great post and I agree completely.

LOL Dude, now u know I would never say that!!!! Read it again...  :)

Slash was just all the right elements, at the right time. Axl too. GNR was perfect. It can still be amazing if Axl would just release this damn thing already! lol Its too bad, but we'll never eve get those years back...but at least we had them.

I agree about Robin's image not being the best, but he does have a great look and aura about him on stage, you DO look at him. I mean, one of the greatest moments of my life was the 2002 MSG Show. But the 2006 Hammerstein show, when RObin dove into the crowd, was one of the coolest moments ive ever seen. it was perfect timing...not planned and fake like wanna-be's.

I dont mean to say anything negative about BF, he is an amazing AMAZING player. His image is alittle off the "rock" look for me...i like Robins, Slash's, Richard's, Gilby's type of rock look...BF looks like the pizza delivery guy who just got stoned and rang your bell with the pizza. Smiles and all. But thats great, he's a great dude and obviously cares about his fans.

BH was just on another planet. He absolutely blew my mind in CT 2002, the first time I EVER heard him play. His solo was just incredible. and then of course in MSG a few nights later, he owned the place. His image was just unspeakable, kinda like his playing.

I disagree. Robin can pull it off very nicely IMO and wrote the best solos on the new songs - Better, TWAT, The Blues...

It's just a matter of not comparing him to anyone. He's not Slash and never wanted to be, nor are the other guys.

Robin doesn't play like others and there's nothing wrong with it. But the different blues approach makes people misunderstand his playing. I saw people saying how he went off-key on Better solo in the demo or SCOM from Big Daddy. :P

Maybe because you don't do it very often when you dis the new members like you did many times on adm section. ::)

I could carry on with the opinions, but I actually just posted a comment in another thread a minute ago which would be appropriate here.

Overall the problem is that nobody can really acknowledge any of the current members accomplishments without comparing them to 'old' GNR, because the truth is, right now the name GNR is still associated with Slash, Duff, Izzy, Gilby, Steven

People are always criticizing the new band members in comparison to the old band members.

None of the current members of GNR are intended as direct replacements for any of the band members in GNR. The previous members of the band have obviously made their presence and impact known in the legacy, but the new guys need to be given a chance to prove themselves, and not just in a live setting or on some unfinished studio recordings.

As I mentioned in the previous message, the biggest problem right now is that people are criticizing the band members' performance of songs that they didn't even write. Not that I personally care, but even their image, that you guys have been commenting on here, is being compared to how Slash looked or even a general rock stereotype.

This is the reason why the release of the album will bring a far long delayed introduction and recognition of the current band members, who in their own right, are talented and unique and most importantly, are INDIVIDUALS and DON'T want to be someone they are not.

In time, People will need to realise that Robin Finck and Slash are two completely different people, from two different backgrounds, with different interests, different fashion sense, and different approaches to playing guitar. Slash was, and is always going to be an iconic guitarist, but as far as GNR is concerned in the present tense, he is no longer a member. Robin Finck is playing some of his songs, yes, but thats it.

Likewise, Bumblefoot Ron Thal is a different individual compared to Izzy or Gilby or Slash or whoever and can't be compared to them or any other general expectations for how a guitar player in GNR is expected to play or dress or whatever.

Of course, everybody is entitled to their own opinions and thoughts, but I believe that people expect too much from the current members in terms of comparisons with old members or general expectations.


I hope this post made sense.

In the Admin section, I dont really think I dissed the members. Its kind of the same thing here.


Till they release CD, I don't think u can really give them credit one way or the other.

My biggest problem with the new members wasn't the new members, it was overzealous fans on here tryin to proclaim them greater than Slash and Izzy before they ever released an album.


I only pointed out in that forum, that they have to release their own material before they can be judged one way or the other.

I see nothing disrespectful or wrong with that cause its true.

Face it, so far in their careers, the guitar players have yet to write anything legendary,iconic or noteworthy

That isnt hating, its the truth.

Sorry Axl23

I reread your post and instantly edited my post. I was hoping no one would see it. :hihi:


Ben:

The reason they are judged so harshly is cause they are in Guns N Roses. So their contributions have to be on par with the other members.

No, their contributions DON'T HAVE to be on par with the other members.

As I said before, the current band members have joined GNR as new individuals who bring their own personality, experience, musical background and style to the band. They are unique individuals different to the former members of GNR, who do not intend to replicate or match or equal the expectations of members who are no longer in the band.

From a FAN point of view, yes, I understand that people expect them to match the contributions and quality of the former members that they have come to love and be associated with the band, but the truth is that, as hard as it may be, those band members are now gone. The new band members have joined and reinvented the band with their own individual elements, rather than recreating what was before.

Great post ben. I do agree about the comparisons people will do, but it was never meant to be like the old band. If that was the case, we would have Slash's covers - there's plenty of them out there.

So the new songs we all heard can't be a proof untill its released officially?

Are we really talking about quality or just about popularity?

Why the hell can't someone prefer what they heard on the new material? Or even the new approach of the old songs?

Id go anytime with All Along The Watchtower by Jimi Hendrix. Isn't just a cover, it's a version and they make it their own.

No, you said "These guys havent done anything to deserve my respect."

So you'll pretend to not know any new song untill they be released?

No, this is just your biased opinion.

You got it right on Voodoochild.

D, you are correct in a sense - the band members won't get OFFICIAL credit of their existence in the band and their contributions in songwriting until the release of the album and relevant material 'introducing' the band members.

But these band members are all officially a part of GNR - obviously endorsed and encouraged in their position by Axl, and representing the music and legacy of GNR when they play live around the world on stage. Sure, the audience may not known the band members individually by name, but the fact is that they are the CURRENT members of GNR, in the present tense - Not Slash, Not Duff, Not Izzy, Not Gilby, Not Jarmo or whoever else.

The new songs that we have heard are not hallucinations. They are not cover versions. They're not specifically Axl's songs, or Robin's songs, or Pittman's songs - They are new songs that have been composed by GNR as a collective unit under that band name. Yes, they have yet to be officially released, but they are songs which should now be considered part of the legacy, regardless of personal opinion towards the music. If they were not to be considered as GNR music, then Axl would not have presented them to the public in live performance, regardless of any leaks which would have surfaced.

Absolutely nobody here has proclaimed any of the current members greater than the former members.
There may be people who, in their own PERSONAL OPINION AND CHOICE, preferred one particular band member's approach to a riff, a guitar solo, or a song, over someone else. That is personal opinion. If anything, it is fans around here who criticize the current band members and set expectations against them in comparison to former members or what they generally 'expect'.

Likewise, some people might prefer the new songs over old songs. Again, that is just PERSONAL OPINION and choice. From what I have seen around here, if somebody claims "Better" or "Madagascar" as being a great song or a better song in comparison with another, it is usually done in respectful discussion and opinion. I have yet to see any comments about people dismissing the older material over new songs. Once again, usually its the other way around.

Yeah, the new band members have to release their own material before they can be judged; but its not just new music that is of concern here - even in concert playing the old songs, most of the current band members are still relatively unknown to most of the music world, regardless of discussion around here. The public need to be introduced to the band members, and introduced as INDIVIDUALS, not as a replacement for Slash or Duff or whoever, hence, that should, theoretically, dispel any comparison to former band members because they are individuals, and they should only be judged by their own personal abilities and experience, not in comparison to someone they are not.

Face it, so far in their careers, the guitar players have yet to write anything legendary,iconic or noteworthy

Ok D man, I've appreciated your opinions so far and respected them, but this comment man is out of line.
This becomes a personal hit to the band members completely outside of the current discussion regarding their position in GNR and is not justified. I hope you can see why I say this. Sure, the guitar players are not world class, popular musicians in the same kind of iconic status as Keith Richards or Slash or Jimmy Page or whatever, but that doesn't meant that they are any less 'noteworthy'. They just haven't had the platform to have exposure to the mass music public.

Robin Finck played guitar in NIN, which whether you like them or not, were and still are a cutting edge music act. He has also contributed to Cirque Du Soleil and various soundtrack work in an almost anonymous capacity. He is a unique guitarist who plays with feeling rather than style or, generally, the 'common expectations' of a generic rock guitar player. It is unfortunate that he hasn't had a platform to expose his talent on a global scale, but this is going to be his long overdue curtain call.

Richard Fortus is an accomplished session guitarist who has contributed key guitar work to musicians all across the board as well as soundtracks and even commercial TV. Obviously he isn't so sought after for no reason. Don't forget the Psychedelic Furs either. A great rock band who might not have had global recognition, but nonetheless have their own respected following to this very day. It is unfortunate that he hasn't had a platform to expose his talent on a global scale, but this is going to be his long overdue curtain call.

Bumblefoot is a musical prodigy who is so far below the commercial music radar that its a crime. He is a music professor, making a difference by his contributions to his local community. His songwriting? Go and listen to his solo albums. Maybe not your cup of tea genre-wise, but anybody with a great appreciation for music outside of commercial radio can hear this man is innovative. It is unfortunate that he hasn't had a platform to expose his talent on a global scale, but this is going to be his long overdue curtain call.

I am not biased to any of these people, and I'm particularly not biased to the current GNR lineup over old in any way for any reason.

Is it fair? NO

But thats what happens when u keep the name Guns N Roses. Everything u do has to compare with Guns N Roses and will be judged very very highly. So their riffs,solos and songs are gonna be compared to Appetite. Not fair but thats just how it is.

NAME ONE NOTEWORTHY,LEGENDARY, ICONIC RIFF OR Song any of these guys have written...


Give me one title.


Trent Reznor wrote the guitar parts in NIN, Robin only played them live.



Im not speaking of forum members and their blind love, Im t alkin bout how the outside world, the media, the casual fans etc etc will react.


U guys get mad at me for being honest.

Im not disrespecting or talkin shit about the band. Truth is, they have yet to do anything noteworthy that will be remembered in Rock N Roll History.

When CD comes out, we will see how well their material fairs. Until then, the jury is out. Im speaking of GNR in a broad sense, on a history level. Not a fans opinion level cause our opinions dont count cause we are in the minority cause we are hardcore fans. To us everything is amazing but u got to take a step back and see how the world reacts.

We won't know that till CD comes out and only then can we truly gauge this band's greatness on a history scale.


Voodoo u play guitar so u should know better.

What is harder, Copying someone elses material and adding a little extra, or writing something from scratch? Does that even need an answer?

No, as I said none of these guys have played in bands that have given them the platform to have made a 'noteworthy', 'legendary' iconic impact on the music scene.

Remember that Slash wasn't just born a music icon. He worked his way up and got the kind of status based on the success that GNR eventually bought for him.

As I said before, yes, i completely understand, the general public will inevitably "compare" the new members contributions to the old lineup, but theoretically and truthfully, the current band members are NOT intended to 'replace' or 'stand in' for any of the former members. These guys bring their own character to the band.

Yes, the public will criticize, but it is unfair because the band members have ultimately reinvented the band. It's not the same band. It's not MEANT to be the same band.

And of course they haven't made an impact yet musically because the album hasn't been OFFICIALLY released and they haven't been given a chance to formally stand and be introduced to the world and have their songwriting talent recognized.

BUT, we have heard their contributions, we have heard new songs, and we know that the potential is there.

At the right time, they will get their due.

Hey man, no hard feelings right? Don't want you to think I'm taking a shot at you. This is good discusion.

So, you're talking about popularity.

I could care less if they are not iconic for the majority of the outside world.

FOR ME, the Better riff is legendary, it's one of the greatest riff of the last many years. So is TWAT and The Blues solos.
Trent Reznor wrote the guitar parts in NIN, Robin only played them live.


So anyone who disagree with your opinion has blind love?

You're being honest about your opinion about popularity. I'm being honest about my opinion on the quality of the new members and songs. I just can't understand why you care so much about the recognizability they (should) have now until they release officially the album.

Again, you're talking about popularity. So you can only love this band once they get the album out? IMHO, I don't have to wait for the rest of the world to like what they did so far.

Well, I don't expect that. For obvious reasons, Id love to have the new band getting at the same level of the old one in popularity and success. Unfortunately, the world changed a lot since then and I think it's kinda hard to achieve that... But, if they can't be as successful as the old guys, it won't change the fact that I love them.

So, you're still ignoring the new songs?

And yeah, it's harder to make a successful song better with a new approach because the bar is too high. Why do you think so many cover bands keep anonymous for the rest of their life?

Anyways, I'm insisting on take the new songs in consideration as they had been played live many times already and, in some way, it was "released" in public and officially.

I know that, quality of songwriting and performance aside, I'm not sure exactly what the chances are of the new GNR and a new album reaching the standards of GNR back in the 90s. It's got nothing to do with the fact that the band members have changed, or Axl's old or whatever - It's the fact that music has changed alot since then. Look at all the bands coming out these days on top of the billboard charts and whatever. It's all retro rock, zeppelin rip-offs, weird electronic shit, art rock and whatever else.

The public may be interested to hear new material on the premise that it is Axl's official return to the music world, but the truth is that most of the public will probably be steered away because of the press who will undoubtedly be criticizing Axl and the album because they are bitter that Slash and Duff aren't in the band - without any justice towards the quality of the music itself.

Going on with Voodoochild, "Better" is an innovative song. For all of the bands who are out there trying so hard to be "classic rock" or "retro rock" or whatever, this is a fine piece of modern rock songwriting that has a modern feel and edge but just enough quality and musical technicality that any young Jimmy Page wannabes out there will go sulking back to their bedrooms.

I totally agree, that riff is AWSOME! It's my fovorite. It's the best of the new songs! Especially BH's guitar . The other songs are just ok.

I like everything in Better, but Robin's solo, Bucket's first licks after the first chorus and right before Robin's solo and specially Axl's vocals are way beyond everything out there. People may got used to the song, but it still amazes me everytime I listen to it with good headphones. I still remember how shocked I got when i first listened and how I got awe...

But I can say the same for Rhiad. I love the guitar work on it and Brain's drums rocks really hard. It's a shame how some judge it for the bad quality bootlegs, tho.

Makes sense. Everyone in rock now is trying to sound kinda retro. Maybe the only ones who really makes something new is QOTSA. Nothing wrong with being retro, I love Black Crowes, but it's about time to move on and try something new. That's why I love Bucket's work on Better, it's avant-gard specially when he uses the killswitch.

Check out the leaks on youtube and read the comments. People already criticize Axl and the new songs just because Slash isn't there anymore. Yeah, I only said Slash because I'm sure average people wouldn't give a fuck if the rest of the guys weren't there anymore, even Izzy (I know, it's ignorance).

You said it all. It's something really new, not trying to achieve a retro-sound because the trend.

People still compares it with some NIN or Korn-a-like bands, but I'm still to find any of their songs that really sounds similar to Better. Hell, people can't even realize how a drop-D chord is something as old as the rock itself, but still call the heavy sound of it as "new metal" shit. Well, what can I expect, people still thinks Better chords are just power chords and the riff is done with only one string... :P

How come you don't like Robin's solo?

I think it's awesome, and compliments the song perfectly.

Actually I didn't mean that (english is not my first lang). :P

I was saying that I like everything in Better specially Robin's solo and etc..

: ok:

Nah, I think I just read your post too fast.

Sorry about that :beer:

No prob! :beer:

Oh, I forgot to mention that I LOVE that riff just after the Pitman break. Really cool with weird tempo. :D

I understand people are disappointed that the classic lineup doesn't exist, so am I, but whatever's happened is done, there's no use trying to be bitter about it. But, yes, this is going to be one of the big problems when people start discussing the new music further upon the release of the album. They won't appreciate the songwriting for what it is, they will always continue to lament the loss of Slash and Duff. It's really not fair.

It's not fair to Axl, but more importantly than Axl, it's not fair to the other members of the band who are all talented musicians in their own right and who deserve more recognition.

Anyway, I'm just repeating myself now from my previous posts.

This is a good discussion


We are speaking honestly here, Remember, I do like this band but I am gonna be honest. Im gonna judge them by who they are replacing.

If I am comparing these songs to stuff out today, they are amazing

Compared to the GNR classics though is what I am doing which is why I may sound a little harsh some times.


lets start with my true feelings on the songs and remember, I am not hating or bashing, this is my honest feelings:


Madagascar By far the best GNR leak, I have been listening to this song for 7 years now and it still is awesome and i never tire of it. It ranks easily in the top 10 GNR songs ever. It is definitely up there in the Don't Cry level of song.
The quotes are a great idea but sometimes it makes me think this is the section of the song that would've had a legendary Signature Slash solo. Its almost like they couldn't make a great solo so they filled that section in with movie quotes. Id prefer a solo but thats just me. the lack of a great solo is the only thing stopping it from breaking into what I consider the top Tier/Level of GNR songs.

Better: Great song, absolutely Robin Finck's finest hour. IF he played all solos in this manner, Id adore the guy, his Solo is remarkable in this song. Lyrics and melodies are great, everything about this song is awesome. Only negative is sometimes it seems a little "Poppy" like GNR really trying to write a hit kind of deal. The leak doesn't get into the top level but it certainly is with Madagscar on the YCBM, DC level. I really wish Axl would leave out Pittman's farting bleeps also as they add nothing to the song. If u are gonna do the Pro Tool industrial stuff, at least do something cool there. See NIN The Great Destroyer outro.

Catcher In The Rye: Song has loads of potential, cant wait to hear the finished product. The recording we have is kind of rough, so its hard to make a clear judgement. I think if this song has the right Guitar solo etc, it could also break into the top level of GNR songs. at worst though, it also is in the DC range.

TWAT: I liked this song at first, now I can't really listen to it. I think this is definitely the song GNR fans overrate the most. Lyrics don't make a whole lot of sense. Axl actually rhymes "ALL" with "ALL"  Chorus is pretty weak. I hate the cheesy guitar run before the chorus.  I love the outro, the "I wouldve done anything for you* but once again, the guitar doesn't match the emotion and power of Axl's vocals. Listen to NR/SCOM etc how Slash is able to match Axl's emotion and intensity. The NEW guitar players have to be able to do this or the songs won't reach that iconic, amazing level of GNR past. TWAT comes so close, SOOOOO close but not quite. Hopefully in the final version it will. If it does, this song is right up there, if it doesnt, I put this one closer to the bottom of the 2nd tier maybe third level song.

IRS: Absolute Filler. the song is a weaker less focused Garden of Eden that is structure and riff deficient.

The Blues: now we are to the song that pisses me off the most. the RIRIII version is one of the greatest songs EVER. I rank it almost up there with Estranged for me. it is soooooooooooooooooo close to Estranged level its crazy.

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Every version since RIRIII is lifeless, boring and puts me to sleep. I cannot even listen to any other version of this song and that is what happens when u fuck with something that is perfect for too long in the studio. RIRIII version puts goosebumps on me and gets me watery eyed.  Every other version is torture to listen to.  The intro Axl does live is some of the greatest singing ever laid down. The rasp does not fit this song or the intro. Its too slow or something now. Im not even sure what happened.


Chinese Democracy: It has definitely been improved tremendously. Very un GNR sounding song which is good. I think its a good not great song. Definitely not one I imagine myself listening to in 10 years. I really don't get a huge desire to put this song on.

Top level GNR songs No particular order
1.Welcome To The Jungle
2.Sweet Child O mine
3. Paradise City
4. November Rain
5. Coma
6. Estranged

Next Tier U get the idea
1.Dont Cry
2. Nightrain
3. Its So Easy
4. You Could Be Mine
5. Patience
6. Locomotive
7.Civil War

third level:
1. Pretty Tied up
2. The Garden
3. RNDTH
4. Perfect Crime



Basically from the Demos, these songs outside of Better have no riff to speak of that is memorable or great. The solos are ok, nothing amazing and the drumming is standard everyday studio musician drumming. I have heard no drumming that wows me in any live version or anything and thats unfortunate.

nice posts voodoo in dealing with D and his slash blinders/bias/agenda.

Thanks man. Just wonder why he didn't want to answer my post, but oh well...

Anyways, talking about drums: Rhiad and OMG (studio with Josh Freese) are two of the most kick ass drum songs I've heard in quite sometime along with Matt Cameron (with Fiona Apple) and Dave Grohl (with FF and QOTSA in some late '90s).

All I wish is to have the same drumming on Rhiad on the album (I'm sure it will make it on the tracklist). Brain kicked so much ass in the Las Vegas 2000 version...

The drumming on There Was A Time is incredible too :smoking:

I answered your post with my big long drawn out one on the new songs.

Here is where u Voodoo and others are getting off track.

GNR are a MAINSTREAM POPULAR band. So yes, Popularity and how they are received is a HUGE PART of what will determine their success.


As I stated. The opinions of us on here do not matter whatsoever. We will love anything Axl does. I LOVE SILKWORMS for Fuck's sake if that tells u anything.


The fate and success of this band is gonna be determined not what we think, but how well the album and songs are received.

IF the album flops commercially and has no hits and nothing remarkable, it will go down in music history as one of the biggest flops and disappointments ever.

U have a band in GNR that sold over 40 million copies of just 5 albums in the UNITED STATES ALONE!

Im not sure Bon Jovi with their 11 albums have even hit 40 million in the US.

F

And again you missed the point. Popularity has NOTHING to do with quality or else we wouldn't have garbage like Gimme More by Britney Spears on top charts. GNR WERE a mainstream band, who knows if it will be again. Like I said, things changed way too much to expect the same level of popularity.

Also, there's a big chance that people could react to the changes. It won't matter the quality of the songs, people may still judge the album by what it isn't - just like you did with your post about the new songs. That's also why I don't give a shit about popularity.

All you said is how the new songs could be better with former members, as if it doesn't matter how good they are, it could be better if Slash were on it. That tells a lot already, but anyways... Before this other post, you just ignored the new songs and said the new members couldn't be respected because they didn't release anything, like the shows and even the leaks never existed for you. You just insisted in how could only be respectful if CD has success.

All I'm saying is I don't care how much success it will have, I already love the new band and the new songs (except Silkworms for fucks sake) and I don't need to wait for the release to make my own mind about them. I'd still support them. I'd still go to concerts.

If Chinese Democracy will be a big flop, so what? As fas as I like it, I don't care. Of course it would be cool to have success because there's more things that would come with it (more singles, videos, interviews, articles, b-sides, dvds, other albums), but it would be just a great bonus to me.

The thing is that you can't stand to Guns N' Roses as what they are now. Maybe you should move on and either give up or just try to accept how the new music has nothing to do with former members - this is not disrespecting, its just the truth. You may be very disappointed if you still expect them to be like others.

^
I can see where we are having a communciation breakdown.


People on here are accusing me of not liking the new gnr and now I can understand why.


Let me clarify


I love this band and I dont care how many albums they sell or how many people like it or what the reviews say. Im gonna love it and I think its gonna be one of the greatest albums of all time.


All I am doing on this message forum is trying to represent the world as a whole. The whole history of music and the legacy of Guns N Roses and the legacy of Axl.

Axl kept the name of one of the greatest bands ever *rightfully so, I agree with him keeping the name* but to the outside world, they don't necessarily see it the way we see it.


So for Axl to be able to justify keeping the name and running off the old members *once again, not my words but how the general public view it* CD has to be a commercial success and also a critically acclaimed success. It has a lot to live up to fair or not.

If CD sells 500,000 copies, Axl's legacy will be severely hurt and he will be totally trashed in the public eye, thats a fuckin fact regardless of whether or not we think the album is 10 times better than AFD cause essentially our opinions aren't gonna matter because hard core fans love everything and overrate everything their fav artist do.

So I can see where the miscommunciation and the misunderstandings are coming from.

Im only stating that in the court of public opinion and the eyes of casual fans and critics, Their have to be amazing songs, great guitar solos, HIT SINGLES and the album has to do well or Axl will be fucking Trashed or destroyed in the court of public opinion.


Is it fair? NO

but unfortunately that is the way the media and the critics and everything works here.

But D, it seems like you are comparing everything back to the old band and the old songs too much.

Yes, most of the public and press will most likely criticize Axl & GNR WITHOUT HAVING HEARD A NOTE FROM THE ALBUM because they are bitter that the 'classic' lineup is gone. They will surely almost hesitate to appreciate the quality of the music based on a general public backlash against GNR & Axl for the aforementioned reason. They almost wouldn't want to acknowledge that they like the songs, just because Slash or Duff didn't co-write them or whatever. The worst part is that low sales of the release of the album would further hurt the band,  but only the perception and image of the band - with no justification whatsoever towards the music, which is most important.

If this is how the general public will continue to perceive Axl & GNR, thats fine, but that doesn't matter. As long as Axl continues with his work and is sincere in what he does, the public can't change the way we feel about the band and our continued support of them.

GNR do NOT need to be riding the top of the charts, breaking album sales worldwide, and selling out stadiums across the world to prove to anybody that they are still relevant and make good music. That era of rock has passed for the most part, but that doesn't mean they can't continue to release albums and tour on their own terms "below the surface". There will always be an audience for them regardless of public perception.

Yeah but no disrespect is meant to any of u guys but u all are being dillusional. U guys are forgetting the IMPACT of GNR, the fact they are legends and the fact they are held to a higher standard than the Poison's, Motley Crue's, Skid Rows of that time period.

GNR are/were a top 10 band all time. That isnt arguable either. When u list the 10 greatest Rock bands of all time, GNR will be in the top 10 everytime and in a lot of top 5's.

Thats what I am saying. If Robert Plant replaces Jimmy Page, right or wrong, the new member is gonna be held to that standard. Doesnt matter what is fair or not.

The fact Axl replaced a whole band, fair or not that new band will be held under a microscope and everything will be compared to the old band.


Fuck, Slash isnt even in GNR and his work is still held and compared to his work in GNR so imagine a band that still goes under the name GNR?

Selling albums, placing on the charts and big time world tours DO matter and u are kidding yourself if u believe otherwise. Axl even knows this has to be successful.

Id bet my life that to us this album is gonna be fantastic and amazing.  But for this band to truly be accepted by the world at large, CD has to be a monumental success.

GNR can never be "Under The Surface" Price u pay when u are an all time legendary group.

There are rockstars and there is Axl Rose. Axl is in the exclusive company with The Top level Rockstars in Music history. He can never do anything under the radar.  This is his comeback and everything is riding on it.

Id say if CD flops and does bad, it will be the last album we will ever get.

I completely understand everything you just said, and I reflected it in my post.

But as I said, REGARDLESS OF GENERAL PUBLIC PERCEPTION, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN AUDIENCE FOR GNR.

Yes, Axl and GNR have made a strong and profound impact in the music scene and music history.

That is the past though.

As I said, it is impossible for GNR to maintain popularity these days compared to their heyday, because the music scene has changed.

Of course if the original band reunited, it would be very popular, but more for nostalgic reasons, reliving a rock legend. If the original lineup were ever to release a new album, it would be compared against their previous work. If the original GNR were still around today, they would be in a status similar to Motley Crue at present - still very popular and successful, but in their own scene and fanbase, not to the mass commercial music industry.

So yes, people will continue to criticize Axl & the current GNR because of what has changed. They won't give CD a fair chance because Slash and Duff aren't part of it. They will automatically write off the quality of any new songs just because it doesn't feature Slash or Duff or the 'classic' lineup.

Axl's response to the general publics reaction following the release of the album is another story..

HOWEVER:

REGARDLESS of the past, REGARDLESS of people's expectations, REGARDLESS of their history, and REGARDLESS of any other thoughts or opinions or criticism or comparison etc etc

If Axl keeps putting out music and touring, there will always be an audience for him, regardless as to if he is selling out arenas, booking theaters, or touring in clubs, BECAUSE THERE IS AN AUDIENCE.

The day that tours are cancelled due to lack of interest or record sales severely diminish is when Axl's mission has failed.

Read your last line


U don't think some shows have been cancelled for lack of interest?

They were slated to play at Nashville, A concert I was thrilled about and going to attend. It got cancelled.  A month before the concert, I went on Ticketmaster and could still get like 10th row on the floor.


They played to half empty arenas.



U look at U2 and how successful they are still. GNR should be that successful

Take the Red Hot Chili Peppers
Bon Jovi


GNR are more famous than all these with maybe the exception of U2

They should be bigger than Bon Jovi and RHCP but they arent.


So, they have to in my opinion be at that level. At least the BJ, Chili Pepper level for this to be considered a success new band or not.

I meant entire tours, not a single concert.

And just to clarify, I have not been surprised at responses to the current/previous tour.

GNR have not released anything. There is no new album yet. Most people don't even realize GNR exist in any form.

At present people still relate to GNR as Slash and Duff etc, because nothing has come in to fill the void. They can stand and watch the new guys playing live at concerts, but they feel no connection to them, they don't know their background, they don't know their true talent, hell they probably don't even know their names.

AFTER THE RELEASE OF THE ALBUM, when the current band members are officially recognized as the new members of GNR, and when new GNR music is released by this band - hence, when GNR officially return to the industry, is when we can start observing reactions.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


This is the exact argument Ive been making and getting flamed and beat to shit over in the Admin Section and on here!


THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


This is exactly what Ive been saying.


We have to wait till CD comes out to make true and honest judgements of the new members good or bad.

Yes, but part of the issue particularly with you is that you have seemed in your previous posts to be comparing the quality of the new music and players in comparison to the former members unfairly.

There may certain have been miscommunication and misunderstanding in terms of your intentions.

But basically, regardless of public and press reactions, observations, criticism, judgement etc, we are the fans who are supporting Axl in the PRESENT and the current band, and in return, Axl is out there putting his time into the album and touring because I am sure he is aware that there is still a VERY dedicated audience waiting for him and his current and future plans. As long as we support his music and go the shows and support GNR, Axl doesn't need to prove anything else or meet any expectations because he still has an audience who are interested.

i really like silkworms and its studio version's gonna be amazing for sure - remember... Axl probably has changed the song (maybe a lot). :hihi:

So its ok for people to claim the new band are "Better" than the old band but I say "wait and see when CD comes out" before comparing and I am all of a sudden the bad guy?

NO NO MAN. See as I said.

Regarding your posts, There may certain have been miscommunication/misunderstanding in terms of your intentions.

Nothing personal man, right?

Go back to the beginning of our own discussions in this thread. You can clearly see that I was getting defensive because I personally interpreted your posts as unjustly criticizing the current band members and their music.

Wait, wait. One thing is to talk about popularity and how the band will be judge once the album is released. Other thing is how YOU can like or respect them because YOU know the new band, the new songs (live or studio) and everything related to it.

Still, you already compared. And why the hell can't you if we (fans) already have many new songs?

See, if I can put a new song as one of the top 10 GNR songs of all time even if I didn't listen to a final version or the whole album, that tells a lot. Unless the rest of the album sucks big time, and that doesn't look like the pattern of the new songs.

In other hand, if you just can't like them that much, you may not like the new band as much as you wanted to.

Wait, so you suddenly became the spokesperson of the outside world? Because of the way you just judged the new songs, I would say you represent A PART of the fans who still miss Slash so bad that makes you put the guy on a pedestal even if he's recent work is not on his old standard. 

Also, this is a message board about Guns N' Roses, which means the current band because that's what they are now. I dunno about you, but I came here to talk to fans about the band, I didn't come here to talk with people who react the exactly same way as a lot of non-fans out there. 

It all depends of taste also. I already think the new songs are amazing, but I see people already trashing it. So, it started already, you don't need to wait for the album to realize that.

Again, the main point of the thread is "How has the members of GN'R inspired you?" and you started the whole pointless discussion about popularity as you claim to be the represent of the world. Maybe I should quote you as a reminder:

First, that wasn't respectful at all and complete ignore the new material. Funny when it came from a person who threated me as I was being disrespectful with his own material and even challenged me to write better songs than him. :P

Second, how the hell does that relates to the "outside" world? This is about what YOU think, not about what you think the band should be to the non-fans. So, this has nothing to do with popularity and overall reaction to the band.

Really?

Yeah, you must really love the new band. ::)

D, you can't deny that people here are completely 'misinterpreting' your posts.

Voodoochild spelled it out.

D's posts have made perfect sense, and I totally understand what he's saying.

I am English, and I understand the posts completely.

I'm guessing a lot of the people here that have misinterpreted what he's said are not English speaking as a first language.

So D's posts are clear... you guys just have to stop jumping to conclusions, and work out what he means a little more before replying :)

Well, did you read my last post?

He was talking about how the current line-up is just a "sloppy" cover band. He ignored the new songs just because they weren't released officially in an album. Then, he posted about how the "outside world", as he claims to be their voice, needs to wait for the album (if it had any influence on how has the members of current GNR inspired him, as the title of the thread asked). And finally, he compared the new songs to the previous material, but then he said it couldn't be possible to compare it till the album is released.

He made it all very clear, but there was no connection to the main question of the thread. I may not have English as a first language, but I don't think it's a matter of misunderstanding what he meant, but rather what this has to do with the topic.