Here Today... Gone To Hell!

You heard right Greg.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: From NYC
From: Greg xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, December 22, 2007 11:50 am
To: 4tus@richardfortusonline.com

Hey Rich....how are things going? Merry Christmas and Happy New....please
man, get this album out already! From what i hear, the label has the album
but arte holding up the release? Or has Axl not delivered it to them yet?

- Greg

oh.............my ..............god...........

I haven't been checking for awhile here....is this news, or does everyone already know this??

I think it was just a rumor but if Richard said so......CD coming soon?

Shit, dude.

Thanks for posting that.  I just can't believe Richard would let that slip like that.  I would think that's the kind of info to be given on a need to know basis.

Ali

Cool, I finally rock some breaking news!!! on a serious note though, im not sure this means much. if i was the head of the label or at least, in charge of THIS project, then i would be really worried and concerned as to HOW to release this.

and of course, people are going to want to know: how many cd's did this album sell???
....and in this day and age, that is no longer indicative of an album's greatness. so if chinese democracy only sells like 998,000 in the US, people will say it didn't even go platinum. (meanwhile, if this album was released WITHOUT downloading, stealing, iTunes etc., it would probably sell about 2-4 million in the US alone)

Its not like me and Richard are friends, but we have shared emails back-n-forth in the past about the band, guitars, gigging in nyc, amps, sound effects etc. as a matter of fact, the first email i sent him wasnt about Axl or GNR or anything, but rather i asked him how he got that long sustain on Madagascar, and if he was using an octave up on it. he replied with what he was using, in fact, from what i remember, he was using an pitch shifter up an octave and I THINK he was controlling the sustain from his guitar with some device. (i realize i just gave u crap info there, i just dont remember.....it may be in the Nice Boys section)

 : ok:
okie doikie then
 :beer:
cheers n' beers '

Chinese Democracy Starts Now, Gets Held Up By The Record Company (Offically) Now

So this is official?

What are the most logical reasons for the record company holding it up?

I'd venture out and guess they are trying to "Take the Temperature" of the music industry right now, and researching the most effective way to release this album in the new Digital Age.

After all this time, they don't want to mess this up with wrong decisions, wrong promo, wrong media applications etc. Im sure they are going to work on this long and hard, and come up with some new way to release this monster. Im sure iTunes will be involved, or some new way of downloading. And of course, you'll be able to walk into a store and buy it as well.

If I were them, id be working on some exclusive deal with Amazon to sell the cd. Most people buy online nowadays....have iTunes be the place to download instantly with some sorta "digital insert booklet", and have Amazon be the website to order it on.

That's why even if you download, you can buy it. Or, if you have a extra money, you could buy an extra copy for a friend or some stranger. Hang out at a record store and generate some buzz the old fashioned way.

If you build it, they will come. Something like that.

Happy Holidays Richard

good..


it's going to happen ;D

I hope this is true :)

Until it shows up on the band's website and/or in a press release from Axl, *nothing* is official.? ? :beer:  That said, it matches Mysteron's previous reveal, and puts a big ol' smile on my face.   Merry Christmas, indeed!

I hate to be a Scrooge, but I'm tentatively excited. Hate to get excited for nothing. I'd rather wait until we hear something official and the bullet train gets rolling, you know? But on the other side, the potential of Chinese Democracy being released in 8 weeks.  :love:

And his heart....grew three sizes that day...

Hey all,

The delay isn't due to Univesal/Interscope/Geffen trying to figure out how to release Chinese Democracy.  They've had over a decade to prepare a marketing and launch campaign.  The formulation of the plan probably isn't the issue.  It's much more likely they're waiting for certain launch dates to implement everything (product tie-ins, movie deals, launch windows, special events - ie. Superbowl, award shows, or a certain financial quarter) OR there are still contractual/legal/monetary issues to be resolved.  Myself, like most of you, are probably hoping for the former, but instinctively probably realize it's the later. 

At least it's good to hear from an official band member that the album is done and turned in.

Cheers,

Andrew

Given the decline in sales for the music industry in general, the outrageous cost to make the album, and Geffen's current financial situation the most likely reason is a cosmic divide between Axl and the label over the marketing and promo budget.

Mysteron's quote that it was in the label's hands suggests Axl probably told the label what they want, and the apparent lack of any release date in sight suggests that the label has a different idea about how much money is going to be budgeted for it and who is going to pay for it.

The sad fact is that label's are not making a whole lot from album sales or downloads right now, hence why alot of them are in financial jeopardy. We all know the issues surrounding the money spent to make this album, so it is not unrealistic to believe the label has not exactly offered to spend a boatload marketing this thing. We know they were financially cut off a while ago, so the delay is most likely a pissing contest over money.

From a business standpoint no amount of marketing budget will push sales past a certain point. It will sell a few million copies tops, as there seems to be a cap on rock sales recently no matter who the artist is. Hip-Hop sales and Daughtry are about the only two entities moving sales right now.

Cd has enough built in promo and curiosity that to spend alot of money on marketing/promo does not financially make sense if you know that no amount of money spent on it will provide the incremental increase in sales to make it worth throwing a ton of money at. Throw that fact in with the significant fixed cost that needs to be recouped by the label for the money spent to record it and they are probably being very very stingy right now financially.

On the other hand Axl probably has a significantly different idea about what should be done and spent to market/promote this album because he desperately needs it to be a success. He probably has the mentality that he would rather have it not come out than have it come out and bomb based on a lack of promo because he stands to lose more than anyone on either side of the equation were that to happen.

When you look at Mysteron's comment and Geffen's current financial status money is the most likely candidate for the cause of delay. Everyone has always just assumed the label was just going to throw a ton of money at a huge promotional campaign, but in the current environment the industry is in it just doesn't make sense. When you have two sides with the same goal but 2 entirely different means of getting there it causes the gridlock we are seeing towards the album.

So the has the label got the album or has Axl not delivered it?  Two questions there, and the same answer applies for both, no closer to knowing anything in my opinion  >:(

No, Richard's answer applies to what Greg mentioned he had heard. Thus, the fact that the label is holding the album.

hmm, sounds good!

hopefully this pans out!

If the Album is done and in the hands of a record company I wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of leaks of final copies to the songs. Let's hope not though.

I hope to God this is true. The wait would nearly be over...in comparison, anyway, seeing as there ***COULD*** (Not definitely) be label issues to deal with.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with you there.

I have to disagree because the original statement was "from what I hear, the label has the album...".  Richard's response was you heard right.

So, what he said he heard was right.

Ali

well mysteron said the issues with the hold up is all in the label's hands...   bach said the album is done.. so this just goes in line with what we've heard.

sadly, we dont know why the label is holding it up or if they will come to some sort of agreement any time soon.   best to just wait it out and see when we hear something.

how can you be so confident its done?

i'm sorry but do you know how to fucking read?


I'll list them out for you this time..

A. Del statement on website that recording is done
B. Bach statement saying album is done (several interviews)
C. Mysteron comment that issues with holdup are with the label.
D. Richard's email today

Uhh if the record label has it, it is done.  How is this not clear to you?

Mysteron, Baz and now Richard have confirmed this.

How frustrating for the band this must be. 

no need to get like that

you believe it just because these people say so?!

i mean c'mon, how many times has axl said the album will be out this year, and it hasnt been?

im just alot more sceptacle than many i guess

also, i mean....why would he say that on email to some random guy, yeah it may be true, but they have been so tight lipped about it, why now are they starting to share?

Please go back to the VR section.  Thanks.

^^^^^

once again in this section, unnecessary ahtred directed towards anyone who thinks Vr are in anyway an ok band. My asumption is that you directed the inbsult to the poster because of his name. I mopved house recently and hadn't been on here for a while, but some things never change.

Repeat after me, "IT IS OK TO LIKE BOTH VR/SLASH/NEW GUNS/ OLD GUNS/ AND AXL ROSE!"

Common sense.

What are they going to announce? "Hey we're done, but still don't have a release date"?

thank you  : ok:

Not to mention that making formal statements against the record label are not in the best interest of getting the album out either.

I'm sure the band is doing their best to get it sorted out.

Basically, it is all down to common sense, as said above. ?

its also ok to believe when 4 people are saying the same thing, it could be very well be true.   we're fans, not skeptics or critics.. fucking FANS.   aint got shit to do with VR.

Or it could be that she simply connected the link between those holding onto the past and the bitterness that some supporters of old members usually have. There is a correlation there. Maybe it was a little out of sorts, but I think we're all tired of the old band fanboys on this and other forums. There's opinion and then there is being a douchebag just to piss people off.

His comments were in contrast of what many feel is a strong argument for the album's release. The fact is, no one knows outside of the GN'R Camp what is going on and since most of these comments come from people in or close to the vicinity of the GN'R Family they are likely to be credible.

i hope your right

i am not slating GNR or anything, i just wonder why people can have so much faith after all the promises, and everything thats gone on for the past 10 years or so, well 5 if they were serious

credible yes, but wernt axl's when he has said the album will be released in march 07 and it never showed?!

im not being a wanker or a jerk as you US people say, but i just can't see how you can have so much faither after all tyhese years of saying this album will be out, and it hasnt been

I'm a bit unsure of what you are trying to state here. ?I am an old school fan of 20 years now.

I could see if some random person was making statements but we have had 4 people directly involved with this band make virtually the same statement.

If he spent time in this section of the board he would be painfully aware of this as the rest of us are.

Do you think that if Axl made a public statement saying "My record company sucks and they are holding this up" that it's going to get CD in your hands any faster??????????? ?My guess is that would not be helpful at all. ?

When it gets sorted out I am sure we will hear something.

he's talking about the old band fanboys (see typical poster at mygnr.com) who are still fuming over silly shit like Axl owning the GnR name all these years later and feel the need to tell us on a daily basis.

I was saying that we have good sources for thinking that it's true: that the album is with the record company and they have been a part of the delays. I was also saying how some people who like Slash, Old Members and/or Velvet Revolver usually have a chip on their shoulder and are holding onto some grudge. Thus they are more pessimistic and less likely to be happy about good news/comments.

It wasn't about you. I was just saying I see where you are coming from. And yes, it's better to wait to hear something official from the band.


Exactly.

Thanks. ;D

I just don't see the point in being bitter or pessimistic anymore, especially after the past 2 years and all the shows GNR has completed. 

I mean, I think it sucks that the record company is standing in the way at the moment but I can understand why the band may not want to rock the boat by making public statements that confirm that. 

Oh, and Merry Christmas!

Why are you all so sure that this message isn't fake?  ???

How else would you like for me to prove its real, take a picture on my INBOX from Microsoft Outlook??!?

It could be a simple answer.....Axl gave them 12 songs and the majority of the album leaked years ago.
Maybe, the record company wants a different 12 songs?

LJ

I was thinking that...but you've been here long enough, so I trust you.

EDIT: This is @ W AXL II

said perfectly.  it need a lot of money to be promoted to be able to live up to the success axl wants.  on another note, one of the best ways to promote is on TV.  but what station would play GNR nowadays?   up here in Canada i certainly dont see muchmusic playing it, and i think its too heavy for muchmoremusic (atleast some songs anyway).  and with all the shit on these music channels these days, im probably thinking that the record companies have to pay the music channel a lot for it.  if you look at muchmusics top 30 countdown you will see the worst music in history, theres no way they just decide to pick that music.

kerrang  :rofl:

Because the guy has been a consistent poster for years.

No, that was just a thought.

I hope it's real because it's really good news. ?:smoking:

Look why b*tch about this, We all know for sure now the record has been handed in like 2 months ago,  Ron has said this, Baz has said this,  hack Rich said this,  and by Feb we knew the record was done, and was being mixted, so of course it's handed in, you need no proof for that.

THey also said that No news had to be considered as Good news.

Everytime they talked about the album it caused delays,
Remember when axl said, We're not allowed to talk about this but this song is called better and is of our new album Chinese Democracy.

Even Axl couldn't talk by that time he said it.
It's a contract everyone is envolved in, from the band to crew and management.

They want to keep it as hidden as posible and as quiet as posible.

I'm betting they are taking 2 weeks of now, and after that they will work on how to bring CD to the audience(and don't give me) just put it out crap like always.

It needs heavy promotion.
But due to the stuff going on at Geffen don't count on it in the next 8 to 16 weeks,
Geffen could Ask Axl for money to finance his own promotion but Axl says no... wo knows(I'm just guessing here)

But, it's clear it's handed in.
Bbf gave us his stuff cause he knows we won't be getting something else untill like late januari or begin Feb. HE knows that, so he gave a little present to wine about.

and rich,  Lay of him,  He just tells what he feels it's right to tell us, he won't be giving direct info, he just gave something we already knew so wasn't dangerous for his in any ways.

I wish the band, the crew, the management,  everyone involved in project Chinese democracy and the label, A great season ending and some great holidays, and a happy very big happy new year and hope that everything comes around good.

I wanna thank the band for the songs we have heard of CD if it was them or not who leaked em, and the band for touring again and showing How much they became a big band again!.

Happy holidays Guys!

Janus

I think we should take alot more notice of Mysteron's more recent comments about changes to the record industry:

"The record industry in 5-10 years time is going to be very different

Those who adapt early and with good foresight will prosper. Those who wait will fade away

It'll be interesting to watch"

I take interest (unfortunately) in Mysteron's other statement that nothing is planned right now.

Marry the two together and I think we have our reason for the delay. I hate to say it, folks, but I think we may have a couple more years yet to wait.

Well, this topic hasn't been killed yet, so I hold out hope that this is an early Christmas present, at the very least. 

I don't doubt the fact that this email is true, but there's another thing I am sure of, is that Richard won't be happy to see that a personal email is on this board....

nextwe'll get a message from Richard saying he never said this, just like bumblefoot did  :hihi:

in what circumstances did Ron said he never said what?

well, i really hope this is the case, then at least that is one less thing to worry about. I wish them all the best and speed in getting the album out!!!

i dont really see hwy richard would say the album is in teh labels hands if it really wasnt. he may not have been supposed to say it, but since he did theres got to be something

here's someone that actually got it right. there are 2 questions here and it is not clear at all which one he is answering. the label does not have the cd.

Well, I think Axl said it best during......

September 21st, 2006 - San Francisco, CA @ The Warfield

Notes: Axl stops the show during Sweet Child O' Mine due to some people causing problems. He tells them they're fucking up other peoples' show and asks them if their mommy bought them the tickets. He also says If you think you're a bigger asshole than me, you have alot to learn!" and "I don't wanna throw my money down the toilet.... I know Universal's hoping they didn't!".

gotta disagree, sorry. think the label cares about what a bunch of internet nerds are talking about regarding telling them how to run their own business? i think not.

bullcrap, you're misinterpreting what has been said! (see above)

he is clearly referencing the part where Greg said "From what i HEAR", not the part where he questions what he's been told.  Otherwise he wouldn't use "you HEARD right" would he?

"from what i hear," pertains to both sentences. but, this isnt an english class. bottom line, the cd has not been handed in. you are free to believe this or not, that's all good. if you dont believe me, then try and ask someone else on this board that question and then see if you get a straight answer...you wont....

Stop acting like you know shit, because you don't. Richard was answering the first question asked. The record is turned in end of story. Stop trying to make trouble where there isn't any.

pretty fucked up that you posted this here. From what you say it sounds like you've had a few emails with richard, and he's telling you this like a personal conversation, not for you to post it all over message board.

he should know that the magnitude of this album,
is greater then anything out their today,
and being in guns n roses, he should REALLY know this  aka, be drilled in his head repeatedly 20 times a day...

So mabye him saying this in an email,
its not like hes giving away anything,
because its in the record companys hands,
SO what?
does that mean we are closer to having the album in our hands?
No,
it just means that we are one step closer to chinese democracy,
but that one step closer might just be a few weeks/months/years closer for all we know,

Stop being so negative,
anything from the band in regards to the album is news, and should be taken postively , unless stated otherwise

The label isn't holding it up to hurt the band.

They've sunk upwards of $20 million into this thing and even if they were to pull Nickelback sales numbers (7 million, and they won't), they wouldn't come close to breaking even. Tour and greatest hits money or not, they won't break even.

Axl's legacy rides on this.

Records don't sell anymore.

They will fail no matter how much they promote it.

They're trying to figure out a sensible/new/clever way of releasing it. If it's ever going to come out, it sure won't just be another CD released on a Tuesday that's available for free streaming a week before or however they do it these days.

There is no album in history that has been this anticipated. Brian Wilson wasn't this notorious when he finally released "Smile", no artist of Axl's status has ever done something like this (as in, Robert Plant didn't come out as Led Zeppelin after 15 years, Aerosmith and Metallica never waited this long between albums, etc.) It is simply the most anticipated record in rock music history and there are a million ways to fuck it up and perhaps the only way to do it right hasn't been discovered or agreed upon yet.

I personally don't believe it will ever come out, but if it does, that's my prediction of what's going on here.

Merry Christmas everyone  :peace:

P.S. Thanks D...

No it does not pertain to both sentences. He asks if what he has heard is right. That being that the record is in the company's hands. After the period there is a NEW question in which has nothing to do with what he has heard.

Now lets say you are correct. He wasn't clarifying which question he was talking about or he was talking about the second question.... That would mean Richard does not know English since the person who emailed him didn't talk about "hearing" about Axl not turning it in. It was just a question he asked in case his first question ended up being a NO.

Excuse me, but can you read??????????????

I was talking about people that want Axl to make some type of formal statement regarding the status of the album. 

I'm quite sure that the record company could care less about our opinions but if Axl goes on record stating they are holding everything up then YES, I think they might care. 

Also, it is clear as day what Richard was answering in the e-mail. 

You need to seriously brush up on your comprehension skills.

I think we have known for a while that Geffen was in some trouble and were going through some shakeups. I remember hearing that a year and a half ago or so.


Thing is, with record labels, Each band has a certain A&R guy assigned to them to help out with everything if Im not mistaken. then u have a team who a long with the artist come up with a release plan "Video,marketing etc etc" and then things roll from there.

With Geffen in a transition stage and Chinese Democracy being its biggest release in quite some time. They are gonna make sure everything is situated and stable before trying to attack their biggest release.


So the album is finished. The record label is reforming and shuffling people around.
Once that is under control, Im sure they will start the CD ball rolling.

I think its a great sign that its the record label and not Axl holding it up.

I dont agree.

Record labels normally get upwards to 5 dollars per CD sold if not more.

So, If GNR sell 4 million albums worldwide, they break even.? GNR better sell 4 million worldwide, unless the album is a complete flop, it will move that worldwide even with Downloading.


U meant Brian Wilson, not Brian Jones.... :hihi: :hihi:

Mabye thats the question Richard Was answering...

Wouldn't his statement imply that they are going to take a good long-ish look, and make the right move soon. Not wait, and fade away?

In any event, I've learned over the last 5 years to not expect anything, but this is good news.

Sorry SterileEyes, I disagree. ?D is right. ?The record company will do very well. ?If the company's sunk $13 to $15 million...you have to remember, that's for 3 to 4 freaking albums. ?Hell, Greatest Hits has been an incredible moneymaker. ?The '06-'07 touring did very well without a new album and very little marketing. ?

btw, Bandita was right...it's clear as day Richard is referring to the album being in the label's hands. ?I won't go as far as saying this was a great Christmas present, but I'll term it a great stocking-stuffer!!! ? :beer:

U have to remember, Greatest Hits is straight profit.

As it took nothing to make it.

So that has easily moved 8 million worldwide. Thats about 40 million for the record label which easily pays back the 15 million for CD

To break even CD just has to sell 3 million copies.

I think $5 per CD may be a little much, but yes, 3 (3+?) albums, and a few bucks from each, with international sales (think how many people saw them in 2006; think Michael Jackson)... there's no way it can really lose money. It might be a disappointment, but it won't really "flop."

Not to mention Greatest Hits and touring as D and others have said.

Totally agree with your post dude.

thats what I said earlier

Wtf, why would Richard care if this is posted? It's not like he revealed that he's cheating on his wife or something.

I've been away all evening and just got back and checked this thread.

I must say, that I now feel bad about posting it, I agree, it was messed up to do. I never should have posted a personal email from  richard, but i must admit....i was excited too.....although i didnt realize how big this news may have been, as ive been busy lately.

what?? youre a fan, emailing a band member. obviously youre going to share the information with other fans... its not like youre his psychiatrist, and he told you how distraught he was over the fact that the label is holding up the release, then turned around and posted it online. you were a fan who asked a question. its normal that you would post it on a message board...  ???

It might be a little different if it wasn't something that had not already been said. And your intentions were true, you weren't trying trying to extract info out of him for the sole purpose of posting on a MB. So to me, it's not that big of a deal.

No big deal, it's not something we didn't know.  Merry Christmas! 

What does Jarboe have to say about all this?

Is that like the past tense of Jarmo?

Yeah, if u guys were friends that would be fucked up

but its not like in the email he said "This is between u and me"

So its no big deal.

So is it with the label or not?!?! MOST people are still saying its no where in sight.....

Yeah, I would think it is not a big deal ... it's not like no one has said this before.



The comment he made to a fan/poster in Boston this summer ... allegedly.

his answer doesnt confirm anything. he could be saying that axl is holding it up, lol

To anyone who's first language is not english! HE CONFIRMED THAT IT HAS BEEN HANDED IN!!!

To those whose first language IS english, and doesn't get the meaning ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_education

Great present for Christmas. Happy holidays everyone... :peace:

There's those 4-5 other band members that get a cut who have nothing to do with CD...

The label's goal isn't to break even. It's probably to try and set records. Remember, the $20 million they've sunk so far doesn't include the insane amount of money they will have to spend on promotion. $20 million so far is a fair estimate if it was $13 million 3 years ago and everything's been re-done since then.

They need a plan. They're not holding it up out of spite.

that $13 million figure was never backed up and was most likely plucked out of someone's ass to shift whatever form of media they were selling, so now extrapolating to $20 million is a bit of a leap of faith don't ya think?  ::)

No.

Thanks Richard for that  : ok:

To all of GN'R and whatever you're cooking up for us i hope it comes together successfully for the sake of your careers and our personal enjoyment!

Happy Christmas and New Year!

Biggest step forward in the progess of releasing CD... : ok:

As good as this sounds,
I am still waiting for axl to speak on regards to cd,

Remember how he said in his letter that
:indirect quote;

" If theirs any news about cd, I will let you know,
and if theirs something that is holding it up ill let you know aswell"

something along those lines,

1 year on, and the best we get is an un-official email from Richard, which kinda confirms what we already knew anyway,
I just want to hear axl speak on the status of cd before the years out, or what can we really say hes acheived this year more then what he did last year?
Aside of tours of course... :peace:

Maybe he wants to really bad and the only way he can get a message out is through his friends?

I think Axl will speak when negs are finished with Uni...

My god some people are thick! :o ?:no:

"I heard you got a new dog. Or is it a cat?"
"You heard right."

So is it a dog or a cat? What do you think? (Unless Richard himself got the question wrong, LOL!) ?::)

And have you guys thought about WHY he answered like that? Maybe he didn't want it to sound like an "official statement" but he wanted us to know that things are moving forward.

So I'm guessing the label has the album. They're probably waiting for the right time to release it. And negotiating about things related to that. It's not like they give them an album and they just start making copies of it as soon as they have it. You know it's a bit more complicated than that.

I'd like to hear an official statement too, but I don't think they're gonna say anything until they have all the papers signed etc.

Unfortunately, or not, brains are not prerequisite to acquiring a connection to the "inernetz". :hihi:

haven't been here forever...but if it's in the label's hands that is a good sign...i hope that they negotiate a good promotional strategy, do it digital guys---because there will be alot of stealin going on anyways.

Where's Jarmo?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/WheresWaldo.jpg)
usually he would be all over a topic like this... I am assuming this information is true, now... or has some truth...


At least can Mysterion shed some light?

Didn't Mysteron already say the same thing? That the record company has it?

yup.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=49983.msg1012376#msg1012376

I guess we have been save...

read it again chumps

No that was not what Richard was replying to. He was replying to what the guy said he heard, as in that the album was handed in to the label. He never said he heard that Axl hadn't handed it in.

read it again (i'm too cool for calling names)? :P

Agreed. ?It's simple. ?One person says "I heard this. ?Or is it this?" ?Second person says "You heard right." ?So, what they said they heard is correct.

Ali

Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor):

"All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."

So, people who says Richard was replying to the second question (or being dubious) are being deliberative negative, since the most logical and simple answer (based on the verb "to hear" and all the previous people stating the same thing) is that the album is handed to the record company.

You gotta understand mate , to some of these people, English isnt their first language or even perhaps second... ?or 3rd

Its clear based on mysteron and now richards comments, that its now with the record label,
End of story,
lets just all assume its with the record label,
how more months or years will we have to wait until its WITH us..?

So I sent Richard an email apologizing for posting the email, and saying I hope he didn't get in trouble from it. I really, really doubt this is that big of a deal, but I just hope Axl's not like "Rich, WTF, why did you do that?" Again, Im sure its not a big deal.

For those of you debating whether Richard was answering my first or second comment....Fortus was OBVIOUSLY referring to the label having the album, not that Axl hasn't given it in yet. AT LEAST THAT PART IS CLEAR!!


Lets see if he writes me back. And regardless of all of this, let's hope this album comes in 2008.

Cheers mate,
Keep us posted if Richard responds back to you,
thanks once again  :beer:

I don't see why it would be when mysteron and Baz already said the same thing.  You're just an excited fan like the rest of us-no harm, no foul.

I also don't think the people disputing the accuracy of the e-mail have a problem with command of the English language-I just think they are the same folks who are pining for reunions and are constantly negative over anything potentially promising happening in GNR land. 

don't forget ron said the samething

Is it possible that the label is holding up the release until axl is able to get some of the money he spent on it back to them? since it's done, it wont take anymore money to record, so they can delay the release until axl gets some of their money back, through perhaps some more tours that they may have in store.

Im pretty sure that combined of The greatest hits,
the 2001/02 tours , and 2006/07 tours Are enough to have at least broke even for Geffen if not close, or even perhaps made some profit,

As soon as chinese democracy is released,
Im pretty sure it wont need as much promotion as people think,
All they will need to do to promote it is to say

The most expensive album ever made is now here,
this is perfection,
this is chinese democracy,
this is guns n roses,


done, sit back and watch the cash trickle from the fountain of society  :beer: :drool: :drool:

Great news, it just confirms what we already know but thanks for posting anyway :peace:

cool, very curious to hear the end results one day.  : ok:

I know why there is a hold up... They had to cut jobs in order to properly release Chinese Democracy...

I completely disagree with this idea.

The album is going to need promotion. A well-organized promotion and tour.

 ? ? Just to throw it out there re:Touring for money to recoup losses for the record companies? ?I was under the assumption that bands make most of their money by touring and the record company makes their money from the release(s) of albums. ?Of course some bands have contractual agreements that give them money for both touring and sales of albums, not to mention merch. ?If I remember correctly, Axl has also spent a ton of his own money on these to be released c.d.s. ?The music world, especially the hip-hop world has been known to live so large while on tour that they tab out on their labels and end up broke after their cd release and tours.
 ? ?GnR by just touring is promotion in motion already. ?The release was probably supposed to have been done during or right after, but delays keep screwing it up. ?Yeah Axl reworked stuff causing delays but I tend to believe it's the record companies causing the delay at this point. ?Every radio station and late night show has made jokes or just comments about the release of the next GnR cd, so if that's the case, the band is still relevant and wouldn't need major money to promote a new release. ?Yes there will have to be promotion and tours but not as much as some may think. ?Once the ball gets rolling, they'll probably have major promotion w/o major cash infusions via record companies. ?If Axl and GnR weren't relevant then there would be no mention of him or the band. ?Record companies have feelers out and about and they know that there are a ton of active fansites awaiting a new release. ?Besides the fan turn out for concerts, pre-orders and merch sales gives them an idea of who is out there waiting to make purchases. ?I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Actually, TV spots will probably be on the low side of the promo media schedule. All types of viral and guerilla marketing will be the more prominent way to promote and market CD when it comes out. Look at NIN, look at Radiohead. And anyone who lives in a major market city, look at the new types of 'guerilla' marketing (sidewalks, building projections, multimedia billboards). Old fashioned broadcast media promotion is not the same as it used to be.

(Happy holidays to everyone. Happy and healthy for '08! :beer:)

You heard right Red  Actually I don't recall writing this whole thing?

Now all those who have been sacked can consider themselves martyrs.  ;) ;) ;)

I know I shouldn't make fun of serious matters but it kinda seemed like a nice thought...  ;) At least to my tequila filled mind.   :smoking:

i dont like to speculate...but if the record company has the record they are probably working out plans for promotion and things of that nature...i dont think its some big mystery....

In all honesty the record company laid off a big part of their company.

Can we please put to rest this talking point that "Greatest Hits funded Chinese Democracy"?

It is not the "Chinese Democracy Funding Apparatus"...there are five or six other people besides Axl who get whatever royalties come from it, not to mention, some of you people seem to think the label is in the business of "breaking even".

They made some money on Greatest Hits. It does not pay for CD. Nor do the tours. 2002 lost money. 2006, if anything, paid the bandmember's salary for a year or two.

They're holding up the album to figure out a way to make some money. I don't understand what all the debating is about.

^That pretty much says it all. 'Nuff Said. CD  was being made WAY before "Greatest Hits" And was being made well after.

I think its very safe to say that the Label has many contractual issues to deal with the band before releasing this album. I don't think it's just a matter of "holding up to make more money".

i think there might be disagreements on how to release the album (S).

maybe the record company want all 3/4 out at the same time to be done with the thing, but axl wants to release one every year or so like baz said?

but at the end of the day only they know any of us are purely speculating :)

kerching kerching kerching $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

always the same

Long live the speculation!!  :D

Hope Fortus ir right though...

As mentioned, touring is a big money spinner for the artist, and indirectly for the record company, since touring = ticket sales + album sales.

GNR have just toured the US.  Yeah I know - '06, but for a casual fan going to see them in 08 could well be less compelling than it was in 06, because in 06 there was no CD, but there was the significant novelty value for many fans of seeing a band that they grew up on.  Notwithstanding line up changes etc.   

If I was devising a Chi Dem tour schedule for GNR right now, I would be thinking that if they toured today they would be pulling in the die hard fans (who have also bought Chi Dem) but they will be missing out on the novelty/nostalgia segment, and that's an important segment as that's where there is good potential for growth in CD sales.  Perhaps a casual fan goes to the concert to hear SCOM, PC, LALD, NR etc. and leaves after hearing Better, TWAT, CD, Maddy etc. and picks up the CD on his way out of the venue, or the next day at the store.

If they tour today they will miss some of that segment, because many of those people will say "Hey, I just saw GNR and heard some of their new stuff.  It was a good show, but am I going again so soon?" 

So given the state of the music industry today and the general public's appetite for rock music (look at he Billboard charts and the Top 10, it's not pretty) and the fact that GNR has already toured recently with what would be a very similar set, I'm thinking that it doesn't make sense to release Chi Dem right now.

IMHO - The best hope is to release a catchy single (ideally a fresh one - not Better) and if that captures the imagination of the public then maybe that's the time to get moving on an album release and tour.  That new single, if successful, would provide the opportunity to capture a bunch of new fans and off set the "Hey, I just saw these guys" casual fans.

But that's a risk.  Release the catchiest single too early and it bombs and then maybe that sets things back further?

Record Companies are not charities.  They're in it for the money, so they'll do what they need to do to maximize revenue. 

So people just go to one show every ten years for novelty reasons?

You don't think there's a bunch of people who'd go to the shows who either weren't fans in the past or didn't have the chance to go see them last time?


There's a bunch of people who'll go see concerts based on the novelty factor, that's correct. But I think many of them are prepared to go to a show more than once in two years....

Otherwise bands like Metallica wouldn't be playing European stadiums every summer.





/jarmo

Well said and thanks for that (the whole post not just what I quoted). I agree with you, it really is about the money and you can bet that they will have a lot of heads thinking together on just how to release this and every little detail will be hammered out before it's released. If some of us did the same thing, put our heads together and thought of the best ways to release this, it would just be speculation (At best) but we might arrive at some of the same basic conclusions....and hey, isn't speculation what a forum lives off of when there isn't regularly given news by any official source?

For my own thought/Wish I would like to see this released in special packaging instead of a regular CD. Something like the PULSE release from Pink Floyd. Does anyone remember that? A special little box with a small book in it containint the usual stuff plus interview and extra info and pics etc... then the CD in it's own case slid in with the book and the boc that held them had a blinking light on it! (How very Floyd)

No expense has been spared on the recording (From what we know) so why skimp at the end? Go all the way and really pull out the stops on promotion of this thing. Special packaging is, in my mind, one of the few things that will pull someone into a purchase over a download these days and if GNR are looking for new fans, you're talking about the downloading generation for sure.

For Jarmo, you said, "So people just go to one show every ten years for novelty reasons?"
My answer would be no but the rule of diminishing returns would apply. Some might go again but not all. I think people would go but there would be less, IF we're talking about touring with no new album. If a new album drops then the tour will be huge.

I wasn't talking about miserable people like you.  : ok:

I meant people who go see concerts to have a good time.




/jarmo

anyone who says novelty is important... 2 words for ya... "led" and "zeppelin"

Yeah and Led Zeppelin, Queen + Paul Rodgers, The Police, Van Halen etc. provide stiff competition for GN'R to get peoples money for tickets. Prices are pretty high for tickets at the moment so not everyone can afford to go see all the acts they'd like. GN'R toured not long ago (compared to the other acts above anyway) and despite being awesome entertainment, the fact the certain ex-members ain't there now puts people off, and are more likely to go see a more 'original' line-up, such as 3/4 Van Halen, 3/4 Zeppelin etc.

And yes, I'm a big Queen fan, so I've heard the arguments about Paul Rodgers singing in place of Freddie Mercury, so I'm not picking on GN'R here, as I really like the new music with the current line-up.

I have to agree with redsquare. I fit more into the 'hardcore fan' category having seen the new band 5 times now, and I'm not really excited to see them again until there are a lot of changes to the show. The last VR show I went to was more exciting than my last GNR show to be honest (even though I like the new GNR's music a lot more than VR's).

Well that's the choice you have.

Either you go see the band and know you'll get a great show, or stay at home waiting for that fantasy dream show that might never materialize. :)




/jarmo

I HOPE that CD is release eventually(!) and that the resulting tour has more emphasis on the new material etc... It would be a great show....

Marketing is going to be key here.  Word of mouth won't cut it in this case.  CD needs to be all over the place when its close to release.  TV, radio, internet, magazines, etc.  They need to promote the hell out of it to get what they're hoping for.

Agreed and thus far the bands not marketed towards the internet at all so a total revamp in that area is a no brainer (I hope) for the record company. With the amount of time and money spent so far there is no reason/excuse to go cheap or rush it now. Get it out proper and plunk down the money to promote it like crazy.

Greatest Hits albums are the ultimate cash grab and u better believe the label released it to recoup money for CD.



Record labels USE to get 6 dollars an album, back when CDS were sold for almost 20 bucks. not sure what they get now that CDS are a bit cheaper. U best believe they get at least 4 dollars. The band probably gets about 2.

Out of that 2 it is split however many ways to satisfy the band members. The record label's 4 dollars IS THEIR MONEY. They don't split their cut with the band, thats where the band's 2 dollars come from.

So Greatest Hits cost ZERO to make as they songs were already recorded.

They may have used less than 1 million dollars to press and promote this album.

The album worldwide has easily sold 8 million.

8 million mutiplied by 4 dollars would be a gross profit of 32 million for the record label.  That is the CD money and profit.

It's very possible that it happens.

But it's not uncommon for bands who are touring to promote their latest album to play about the same number of new tracks as GN'R did without an album out.

Both work for different concert goers. The hardcore fans would be thrilled with a setlist full of new songs while the casual fans would be happy to see a couple of new ones and lots of old hits.
 

Whatever GN'R plays, you can bet the show will be memorable. They really are that great....





/jarmo

When CD is released, U know we are going to hear most of the album on tour.


Hell, knowing Axl, he will probably  just extend the concert another hour.

Remember those 3 hour marathons!

They play 20 songs?? now on tour? including the 3 or 4 new songs.
So I could see Axl extending those 20 up to about 25 and adding another 30 minutes or so onto the concert.

That would be awesome.

I am just praying and have my fingers crossed that they come to either Nashville or Atlanta. Those are the closest places to where I live...................... 

I was hoping for Lexington or Cincinnati.  But I have decided that Chicago or Indy are do-able since it's GN'R.

Whatever GN'R plays, you can bet the show will be memorable. They really are that great....

/ jarmo

This much is very true. Regardless of the problems, once Axl gets on stage, all is forgiven. He is magic and the best frontman of all time, without a doubt!!!!!!!! THE BEST.

A perfect 50/50 split of old songs and new songs would be awesome.

Everyone leaves happy :)

I'm just getting this news so excuse me but I have to say that things look favorable for a 2008 release.  :yes:

It could not happen but I think at least in the GNR world all signs point to go. Looking forward to 2008...

I would love to see the album come out sooner than later, but I'd also love for them to come back to Australia and play. That show in Sydney was one of the best I have ever seen.

Like Jarmo was saying there's a possibility that even after the album comes out there may not be big changes to the setlist. Most bands touring for a new album only end up playing about 5 or 6 of the songs off the new album anyway. Also alot of fans might not care about the new songs, they might just go to hear the 'classics' played. Whatever they decide to do, hopefully however many tracks the new album/s consist of, they will get played live at some point.

Wow Jarmo, way to read content that isn't there. ?Isn't that what you accuse the fans of doing?

I didn't say that people just go to 1 show every 10 years for novelty reasons. ?You know that, you've even confirmed that further down that you seem to understand my point. ?It looks like you're just trying to start an argument. ?Perhaps you should give yourself some negative karma and take a time out.

"There's a bunch of people who'll go see concerts based on the novelty factor, that's correct. But I think many of them are prepared to go to a show more than once in two years...."

Agreed. ?We both agree on that. ?No need to argue for the sake of arguing. ? I'm sure "many" of them will, but "many" of them won't. ? The "many" that won't could be considered lost potential earnings. ?

To simplify and demonstrate - I'm not a huge fan of Billy Idol. ?If Billy was in town in January and I knew I could get tickets would I go? ?Sure I would. ?It would be great to hear some of those old tunes. ?If he was coming back in February would I go? ?After seeing him in January? ?Let's say (for arguments sake) that there's a 1% chance that I'd go. ? As time progresses that chance increases. ?So March might be 2%. ? July might be 10%. ? November might be 50% etc. ? I'm pretty sure that you understand this stuff to at least some degree. ?

Therefore, we could extrapolate that I'm not the only person in the world that feels that way about Billy Idol. ?And I don't think it's unfair to think that there are people who feel the same about GNR.

We can interject Chi Dem into the mix and if I'd gone to the show in January and Billy had a new CD out, and played some killer tracks from it, I'd be MORE likely to buy it than if I just happened to pass by the CD at the store. ? Ditto "casual" GNR concert goers.

Neither of us are qualified to discuss actual numbers, but there is clearly an opportunity there for the record label and promoters etc. ?They'll be looking at the big picture. ?Sure some of them are probably even GNR fans, but they have a strict responsibility to their employers, share holders and colleagues to ensure that Chi Dem is successful as possible, even if that means not releasing the record "today".

This is fairly basic business stuff, let's not let our judgements get clouded by our own fandom. ? The vast majority of us here will attend the shows and buy Chi Dem, but to be an fantastically successful record from the perspective of the record company, they'll want to be expanding their audience significantly.


Metallica keep themselves in the front line. ?They've been releasing records. ?They've been in the news. ?They've been doing shows. ? While I think that GNR are stupendously better than Metallica, the two bands are very different. ?One band is very reclusive, one band is more about fan interaction. ?If Metallica hid themselves away then no, they wouldn't be doing regular headline shows either.

Remastering, design, publishing, advertising.    I'm sure it's still a cash cow, but it doesn't cost zero. 

Well excuse me. This part right here kinda gave me the impression that in your opinion it would be a bad idea to release the album now because people (casual fans) wouldn't go see the shows, because they already saw GN'R in 2006:





My point is that there's always these casual fans who might go see the band every year if they had the chance. Or not.





Maybe you should stop acting like a smart ass?



The only "argument" there is that you don't know what you're talking about and it makes no sense to me.

Instead of addressing the issue that you can't really count on these people to show up and the fact that there's always people who didn't go last time for whatever reason, you keep repeating the "maybe they wouldn't go see GN'R" line.


Like usual, the board has a few experts on marketing, touring, promoting, song writing, mixing, recording, managing, sales, video making, guitar playing and what not.

You even agree that you basically have no idea, but yet you're here offering your expertise on the subject.  :)






/jarmo

GH wasnt remastered. This was even one of the reasons for Geffen to win against Axl, Slash and Duff on court.

I hope GnR tours again without an album just to spite all you cynical fuckers.  :rofl:

I'll never understand all the fans who complain about GN'R not doing what they're "supposed to".

You know, following the rule book.

I must've missed the memo where it was announced that GN'R is yet another one of those bands who does everything by the rule book.

I certainly remember how this band has gone against a lot of things in the past.... 16 years ago they decided to release two albums on the same day for example.


I'm aware that still upsets some of you since you say "they should've just taken the best songs and put out one album".  :hihi:




/jarmo

Yep, Mr. Jarmo is right on.

Some 'fans' want the band to be edgy and shocking but you want them to conform to a regular schedule for updating their website. You want Axl to have his mysterious vibe and ambiguity, yet you want to know more about his personal life. You want to be surprised, but you want to be informed every step of the way. You want 'Chinese Democracy' to be a blow-away, yet you want to hear the music early and download at the click of the button.

It's a paradox you see and at the end of the day, it's not your band.

Yeah! why didnt they just release 1 record with the best songs. Would have been one hell of a record!

how is playing the same setlist in basically the same order for the past few tours dangerous?

I think most fans want a setlist that is CD heavy with some GH sprinkled in.

And after they play CD out they then have a plethera of songs to choose from for future tours in which the setlist can go back to being unpredictable again...now thats dangerous.

Jarmo, you always say how GNR do things their way, etc etc. yada yada yada. How can you rag on people who want, demand, expect, etc the album "now" and say o well gnr do things their way when in reality they are not doing things their way,

By recent accounts, the album is in the labels hands and the "ball is in the labels court". So if gnr do in fact do things "their way", we would have already had the album by now. but like many other bands, gnr hve to play by the rules of a company.

so in reality gnr arent doing things their way

The days of dangerous rock n roll are long gone

stop trying to play down the release of the album or a new tour

Please tell me he's kidding.  :rofl:

Well, do I need to spell it out for you?

Touring for the fans who want to see them instead of not touring because certain fans say it makes no sense.

Not putting out shitty albums when certain fans demanded albums out. The same fans who are "owed" an album.



Even if the release is now up to the record company, it's not like the process so far has been "by the book" so to speak.

It's like you work on something on your own terms for 99% of the time and then the last percent is up to somebody else, you're there saying "but you didn't do it on your own terms!".

Please.



/jarmo

How do you put up with these people on a daily basis?

who said not to tour?


I think the gnr fan has been more than patient with this whole process. For the most part everyone is on board with the whole "when its ready, it will be out" slogan.

Who says release an album for the sake of releasing an album? I only go by what Axl says. So when he says the album will be coming out in 2006 or whenever I assume that the album isnt shitty and its ready for release. Didnt you?

You can go on forever with the whole when its ready it will be out slogan. If its not ready by now then thats bothersome dont you think? This album has probably been ready on a few different occasions. Does that mean if CD was released back in 02 or 03 it would have bombed? what about 2004 or 05?

Im sure some great stuff has been added over the years. Particularly when Bucket was in the band. But like anything in life, there needs to be a line drawn in the sand. Its pointless now so it doesnt even matter how long it has taken. I could careless. Ive waited. Patiently and in the process I enjoyed many things from this band. But I have also been let down. And theres nothing wrong with that. Thats life.

I just hate the non chalant vibes that have taken over this place over the past yr or 2. Its nutswingerish ...lollllll

I agree with Axl when he says he doesnt care about the people who dont go to any shows. No1 should care about those whiners, complainers, and haters. But what about the people who have been to a lot of the shows, who have kept the support going, who have remained patient? There voices are just as legit as the typical nutswinger.

Its been discussed a zillion times so it doesnt really matter. We all understand Axl is doing his best to get the album out. Hopefully the album is in the labels hands. If it is than soon is the word.

the ass kissing probably keeps him goin

Was I talking about 2006?

Whatever fits your agenda I guess.


What are you talking about?

It's done. Read what Baz has said.




Feel free to fuck off then. OMFG!!1!! LOLZ!!!!!!!oneone11!1!!! :)


"I'm so unhappy, the record's not out. My life didn't turn out the way I planned. I'm so unhappy.". We fucking get it.


You come across very bitter for somebody who's got the word "young" in his username.




/jarmo

I'm not offering expertise, I'm offering an opinion.   

You're right Jarmo.   Everyone who went to see them before would go and see them again.   What was I thinking?

Maybe you're right, but Amazon and several other sites indicate that it is.? Wasn't there an "news bit" about George Sterling doing the remastering of this?? On his website??

I didn't say that did I?

I said your whole scenario is simplified and pointless.

If ten people don't go, maybe there are ten other who would who didn't go in 2006? We don't know.

Maybe you have a secret formula for when people would go see the same act again purely for nostalgic reasons?




/jarmo

No SHit. Its been done for years. What Baz has said has been said by many people.

Not sure what any of that has to do with this thread.

Not bitter at all my friend. Just saying it like I see it. If you read my previous post I said that I have had a lot more ups than downs with this band. Just because this band doesnt do everything right doesnt make me bitter. I m just as big as a gnr fan as you or any1 here. I choose to tell it like it ism you choose to use every excuse in the book. Both ways are fine. thats what fans do.

I am such a bitter guy because I sit at home everyday and dwell on gnr and chinese democracy. Man you are good. How did you know? Last week I was thinking of new ways to release the album so I can help Axl and the boys. Santa got me some new magic marker boards...now i can map out a few new strategies and theories without erasing them so quickly. The week before I didnt leave my room because I was so pissed about the tour setlists over the past few yrs. And for the past 2 yrs ?I have been writing a letter every 2 weeks to Axl asking him why hasnt invited me to any of his parties when he is around the city. He has never responded. >:( I even listed you as a reference I hope you dont mind. Now you know why Im so bitter!

I dont get the personal attacks. Just because some of the process hasnt been handled ?properly doesnt mean Im bitter or a hater. in fact that is a young school girls mentality. maybe you should change your name accordingly?

No Jarmo, you didn't say it. ?But I said it wasn't the case and you indicated that I'm some sort of self professed expert. ?So I assumed that you disagreed with me. ? Instead it looks like you agree with me but want to have a go at me anyway. ? So either there IS an impact on the sale of tickets based upon the nostalgia value of the act (like I said and you made a mockery of my "expert" opinion) or there isn't. ? Obviously BOTH answers are incorrect in your opinion, or you just have some sort of personal issue with me which you should just take to PM. ?

Whatever Jarmo. ? ::) ?There's no "secret formula". ?Obviously SOME people will and SOME won't. ?You said this yourself, I agreed. ? But you still want to carry on an argument for some reason.

If you can't handle people expressing OPINIONS then you might be in the wrong line of work. ? ?Just to be clear, that was an opinion too, I'm not a career counsellor. ?

Again, I think that the record company has a LOT more to consider than just the input of the hardcore fans. ?I think most of us can understand that. ?I'm not sure why you have an issue with me expressing it.   It's not some sort of attack on the band.  It's a reflection on the sad state of the music industry.  I don't hold GNR responsible for that. 

The show I went to
Was almost strictly fans who
Wanted JUST GH.

Most came for the hits.
They liked all of the new songs
But came for the old.

Splash

/Mike

How the fuck is that possible considering recording was done in January?

Why is it that things need to be explained to you time after time?

Something you worked on this year and finished couldn't have been finished before you did the last work on it.

Isn't that basic logic?






This way: Whine, whine, whine.... We get it.

You're a big fan? I guess you're a big fan as long as the band does what you want them to,. The other times, you just like to point out how everything sucks.

Constructive criticism is one thing, but some of you go beyond that.

Does it really fill some kind of fucking void in your life to put the band, you claim to be fans of, down?







Don't wanna give you any ideas....  :P



Every time there's any news about the album, you and your kind are here to remind us of the past. Time to move on?

"It's been done for years". Funny.




Didn't you pretty much claim it's pointless to tour in case these nostalgia craving concert goers won't show up?

I don't agree with that.

I explained why. Because you can never really count on them going to any shows.

This is the kind of people who might go see a show because they happen to pass the venue on the night of the show.





/jarmo

Jarmo u suck thats right now ban my ass! I observed  here for a few years not said  to much. But Seriously when someone has an opinion leave it at that. But no u have to show your almighty I am here today gone to hell moderator power. Some things U should just keep to yourself but no u think u are this all mighty shit when u are u are just some fucking nerd :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:.Bye Bye Now

Bye.

The problem ass clowns like yourself have with me is that I tell you to fuck off instead of kissing your ass.

I don't watch you whine and whine while tapping your back and telling you "there there"....





According to your logic (or lack there of), I should let the whiners whine and despite me disagreeing with what they say, I should just let them go on and on.

Guess what, it's not working that way.

If you come here to whine about GN'R because your life sucks, just fuck off and have a happy new year. :)



/jarmo

I did? ? That must be in "Jarmoworld" because here on Planet Earth I said no such thing. ?It obviously doesn't matter what I wrote since by the time it leaves the information leaves your eyes and gets interpreted by your brain it gets all twisted. ? I'm really not sure what part you have issue with because you seem to both agree with what I wrote and then disagree with it in the same post. ?I really have no idea which Jarmo is trying to argue here so I'm not interested. ? You carry on seeing what you want to see. ?For the sake of the rest of the readers I won't quote my original post again, but here it is:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=50214.msg1028317#msg1028317

I never said that it's pointless to tour.

fixed

I explained it a few times!

You argue about something which I don't think is even an issue (the nostalgia crowd). That's what I don't agree with!

I agree that certain people go see shows for nostalgia, I don't think it's an issue because you can't count on them anyway.


Instead of addressing that, you keep going on and on about how I agree with you.





/jarmo

Oh my god.  You DO know how to express yourself properly.  To be honest Jarmo you did a shit job of explaining yourself with your sarcastic and holier than thou one liners.  Go back and read your previous posts.  All you need to do it get off your high horse now and then and you're quite capable of having a conversation with us little people.

The record company would be foolish not to count on those people for ticket sales and other possible pull through revenues.  This is why when smaller bands are trying to establish themselves they'll try to spread out into other geographic markets.  It opens up the bands to new fans, it gives the "home" fans the chance to build up their appetite for the band again (even the hard core fans) and it increases both the perceived and real popularity of the band.   I don't believe that this is some sort of industry secret, it's about market penetration strategy.  I would love it if GNR were to play in my town tomorrow night, Saturday night and Sunday night.  But they couldn't count on me to go to all three shows.   The more casual the "fan" the less tolerance they have for seeing the same show twice, or three times. 

Anyway, in your opinion the nostalgia crowd is not an issue.  I think it is, especially in today's market when they should be thinking about maximizing revenues.  Neither of are experts (and I don't claim to be) so it's just opinions.

Maybe it's just that I have to explain everything to you a few times until it sinks in?

You can attack me all you want, I made my opinion known, instead of addressing the issue you came up with these "amusing" smart ass remarks....



I think they're more interested in selling albums than ticket sales. Concert promoters sell the tickets.

At least that's how it used to work....





Certain former members probably wish that GN'R was about nostalgia.....



I think the record company should worry about how to reach all the rock fans who haven't heard a great album in years instead of worrying about who might show up at the shows.

Meaning, a concert ticket buyer isn't automatically a record buyer.

It seems like concerts aren't the great promotion tool for record sales like they used to be. Just like videos aren't because MTV stopped playing them.



The most optimal would obviously be if the person got the ticket, the shirt and the record. Everybody would be happy.




By the way, wouldn't most of the people who attended the 2006 and/or 2007 tours be considered part of the "nostalgia crowd" since there's no new material released?  ;)

I don't consider myself part of that group. I'm a fan and I try to go see my favorite band as often as possible.





/jarmo

The Spirit of St. Louis

Two of the Lou's famous rockers fill us in on their favorites of 2007 ? and what the next year holds.

By Annie Zaleski
Published: December 26, 2007

Richard Fortus once attended a Replacements/X double bill at the legendary venue Mississippi Nights. At the time, he and 'Mats bassist Tommy Stinson were the same age. Two or so decades later, the two men are bandmates in the current incarnation of Guns 'n Roses.

It's a just reward for Fortus, a talented guitarist who first found fame in the '80s with St. Louis darlings the Eyes (who were later known as Pale Divine during their major-label days) and later in Love Spit Love, the criminally underrated '90s act that also featured Psychedelic Furs figurehead Richard Butler.

Fortus is still an in-demand musician today: In 2007, he played on albums by the Crystal Method, Puddle of Mudd, the Divinyls and Scott McCloud (ex-Girls Against Boys); worked on the Spiderman 3 video-game score and played on releases by three new (and completely separate) artists named Kerli, Krista and Karen.

As for G n' R, Fortus hit Australia, Mexico, New Zealand and Japan with the band this year, and in 2008 he hopes to be touring in support of G n' R's long-awaited album, Chinese Democracy: "No, really."

Rest of article: http://riverfronttimes.com/2007-12-26/music/the-spirit-of-st-louis/

I don't beleive how many fucking whiners there are here.

If you don't like it...JUST DON'T COME HERE!

IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT AXL DOES NOWADAYS......WHY THE FUCK YOU PAY TO GO SEE HIM AND GUNS N' ROSES IN CONCERT?

Either get on board...OR FUCK OFF!!!!!!

Thanks man!  :beer:

WTF, couldnt this be more clear? I mean, its very baddly written.

Still, seems like Richard really hopes to be touring in support of Chinese album. Thats what I understood, at least.

Who are u to tell someone to fuck off when u have been on here for like 2 minutes?


We, Youngunner and myself and countless others have been waiting patiently for over 5 years on here and u stick around through 5 more years of false starts and lets see how tested your patience gets and lets see if u are still singing that same bullshit tune.

If everyone had to choose I'd say the GNR fanbase would shrink considerably.

I am definitely no whiner or no hater but seriously, its been the same bullshit since 2002 after the VMA's.

we thought we were getting the album Spring 2003 then it was Summer, then it was November for sure

2004 same

2005 same

2006 same
2007 It HAD to be the year after the Axl press release, the firing of Merck, 2007 HAD to be the year.

So what makes anyone think 2008 will be any different?

Personally it doesn't bother me waiting, I don't bitch about it. I hate how Axl could've had the greatest comeback in music history but now has kind of ruined a lot of the magic that could've came out of it with a Great MTV performance, a video single the next day and the album in November of 2002.

It was all lined up for Axl and in my opinion they blew a great opportunity.

Who is to say the leaks weren't done purposely by the band to try and force the record label's hand.

I am kind of worried to be honest.

If The Record Label have CD, why the fuck wouldn't they release it?? Unless they feel it has no hits on it.................. To me, if a guy has taken a decade and he finally gives u the finished product, u would think u would release the damn thing and make it priority number 1.......

So there are a whole lot of questions left up in the air.

Sebastian may have said this and that, Richard and Bumble may have said this and that but I take one person's word and that is Axl

Still haven't heard it from his mouth.

Looks to me, if he already turned it in, He would've updated the fans like he promised in the last letter?

Ladies and gentleman Vice - President  Dick Cheney..................

With all due respect to this post, as well as the prior posts by Jarmo calling out whiners... There are a lot of whiners - this is true, however, ?there are really two types of "whiners". To me it seems there are those that, while annoying, are positive. Then there are those that deserve what is said above - as it is negative. They are two different buckets, one containing shit, and the other not.

Again, with all due respect, to me it is not bad if you have people pleading for the release of the album. While it may be whining, it is certainly positive that the people care about an album that is often referred to as a punch line, and have been led to believe the release will happen in short order, time and time again. That is no bash as we have no clue about the circumstances. But again, the whiners who are not bashing, let them whine; while annoying, it is a positve.

Those other whiny little bitches that go around doing nothing but bashing, putting no thought into what they say other than GNR sucks, no Slash then no GNR, Axl sucks and so on... They are the negative. They can and should take a hike.

Having followed the board since it was started, and seeing this "whiny" theme again, it seems that it is time to at least be thankful for the positive whiners. Those people will buy product and are simply clamoring. To me, let them come around, while the others can eat shit.

God I whats going on,

One second we are talking about an email from richard about the record company havin the album,

the next we are talking about "NASTALGIA ACTS"

Isnt that offtopic? aside from that, its like watching tennis... back.. and ...forth
lke a dog with a bone

anyways I Belive richard was tryin to give us a subtle clue in his email,
as if to say everything is up to the record companys hands now,
and Gnr are home free,
when in actual fact, Im sure Axl is going to have at least some control over how he wants it to be marketed,
and what route he wants to take,
I know he wont have full controll, but mabye he might provide some forsight to the record company on how he wants to go about it, cause after all,
Axl dont play by rules ?:hihi: :peace: :beer:

Hey there to you too! :D


Guys seriously... please calm down. It?s not as all this is some new situation or whatever. In fact... what?s happening now is what?s been happening for years. I think we could just relax a bit... It?s fucked up having to wait all this time, but as Axl once said, we have to live our lives...
It sucks. We could have the album already but we don?t. It ain?t easy to be a Guns fan... we took the task, now we must endure it!  ;)

Everyone's so busy arguing that most of them missed this great news!

Hahaha, indeed man. People really need to know about this great news. :)

The great news is that the album is done. Just like Baz has said a while ago.

But still, we have people going on and on about how this news isn't great.  ::)



/jarmo

That is cool news.


I also thought it was cool in 2004 when Tommy said basically the same thing.

As for G n' R, Fortus hit Australia, Mexico, New Zealand and Japan with the band this year, and in 2008 he hopes to be touring in support of G n' R's long-awaited album, Chinese Democracy: "No, really."



I don?t get this sentence... can anyone explain it to me? ?:)

I tried to explain on the last page.

well yeah... but what?s with the "No, really" at the end?  ???


lol btw, looking at your avatar... I?m listening right now to Jimi Hendrix! hehe  :peace:

In my opinion, Jarmo not deleting this thread means the album was handed in...HUGE STEP. As for Richard's taste, I can only be impressed. Two of my three other favorite current bands are Wilco, Radiohead, and Tool. I especially liked his Radiohead comment...."In my opinion, they are still the most important band of the last two decades."...in other words best band since 1987! :hihi:

their making a joke of chinese democracy again,

saying

"NO REALLY"

is like saying,

no really, its coming out this time, we mean it,
we know the other 10000s of times we said its coming out and it didnt,
but this time we really think its coming out...

^^ What gunns1 said. :)

And yeah Ines, Jimi rocks! Just finished to read his biography by Sharon Lawrence, it makes me think about all the shit Axl had to deal with (not only legally, but also with "friends" and music).

Anyways, to get back on topic, I think there's a strong confidence now to have this album released in 2008. I hope it happens, also because a full world tour behind it will kick major ass. ;D

"The great news is that the album is done. Just like Baz has said a while ago."

For those of us who jumped for joy when we first heard it only to freak when it all seemed to come to a dead stop when the label went down, where the fuck are we now?  lol  I'm still thinking GNR is their proven money maker and they need them and it will be their next move.

By the way, I'm from St. Louis.  No really means it's true.

I took that to be a quote from Richard ("No, really") when asked what the next year holds.  Like cineater said, no really means it's true.


As for G n' R, Fortus hit Australia, Mexico, New Zealand and Japan with the band this year, and in 2008 he hopes to be touring in support of G n' R's long-awaited album, Chinese Democracy: "No, really."

Hahaha, an you know for a fact that I am waiting for 2 minutes....

Like in many other forums, some people talk without knowing fuck all

(and it's not an attack on Jarmo there...just my opinion on some posters)

Even if I don't post, I can read.

Isn't the fact that it's in quotations, as opposed to italics, mean it's said by Fortus? Maybe I'm an idiot, but I just thought that was some rule in journalistic writing.

anybody who is seriously upset at the lack of an album as of yet, get a life.  i mean seriously?   i want CD as bad as the next guy, but until it comes out, its not out, and theres nothing i can do about that.... so be it.    :crying: :)

No, people seem to come to their own conclusions based on what threads we remove.

I don't know if it was handed in or not.





You mean when the album wasn't done?

Why is it that some of you seem to choose to ignore the fact that 2007 is the first time the album has had a tentative release date and it was finished?





/jarmo

My new years resolution is if I don't see Chinese Democracy come out this year, I won't ever see it. That's right, seppuku. December 31, 2008 11:59pm.

I know, but this just reinforces the facts. : ok:

I would absolutely consider a portion of the 06/07 attendees a part of the nostalgia crowd. ?I know people who went who don't give a shit about the new material. ?They heard it, thought it was ok, but were totally unaware that GNR had new material to play. ?They were there to hear the hits, but many walked away with shirts and I'm sure MIGHT have bought Chi Dem had it been available. ?The nostalgia crowd % would vary by region and there's no way I could quantify it. ? But again, the record company is in it for the economics. ?Not for pleasing the fans. ?They'll have some estimation at some scale. ?That's why I mention pull through revenue. ? People buy tickets to see concerts, but at the concerts they buy merch. ?These are pull through revenue opportunities. ?To put it in perspective, HTGTH is one of the larger GNR sites out there, yet the stats in the top right hand corner show 8,442 members. ? At the last GNR show I went to, there were more than 8,000 people. ? The hard core GNR fan base is probably NOT representative of the mass concert going audience. ? Bands like KISS, Def Leppard etc. are also in this position. ? While I'm sure that all 8,442 members would have happily sung along to Better, ?the vast majority of the crowd at my last GNR show had no idea. ? We're a small slice of the pie. ? There will be plenty of people who will buy Chi Dem, listen to it once and then let it gather dust. ? They're still important people to the record company, if they can get Chi Dem in the hands of those people (as well as the 8,442 members of this forum) then that's significantly better than JUST getting Chi Dem into the hands of the 8,442 members of the forum. ?

And that wasn't an attack. ?An attack would be "Jarmo, you're a fucking tool". ? I merely commented that you did a crap job of explaining yourself, and I stand by my comments since this post I'm replying to shows that you are capable of well thought out conversation. ?

The fact that the concert/record linkage is not as profitable as it used to be is even more reason to ensure that the strategy is well thought out. ?And again, that means well thought out for a profitable release, not well thought out for a "fan pleasing" release.

Baz said that Axl wanted Chi Dem out this year. ?I don't think that Axl held the album up for so long out of spite. ?But even the artists only have so much clout. ? As an incredibly crass generalization you could almost say that in general the artists care about the fans and the money, while the record company is more in it for the money. ? We know that getting an album out there is not rocket science (generally), we have good reason to believe that Axl wants it out, we know that the industry is in a tough position after some really glorious decades. ?

Anyway, the horse is dead. ?I'm not expecting Chi Dem before mid 08, because I believe that the decision to release the record will be decided largely on the ROI. ?But I hope I'm wrong, I genuinely do.

No I mean when Tommy said he heard final mixes.


Album no Album who gives a shit . I just hope they tour in 08.

at the end of the day,

tentative or no tentative,

it means jack shit,

Axl must have known that it wasn't going to come out in march 6th,
because by the sounds of it, back then, seeing how the recording supposedly just finished,
then They would of needed a few weeks/months to plan the marketing campaign,

surely axl must have known that march 6th was just not enough time to release a record of its magnitude,

So at the end of the day,
words are just words,
everything is a lie until it comes true, Thats what I  have learnt in this, just dont expect anything,
dont even hold your breath for anything,
and if something does happen, you will be happy and suprised, but if nothing happens, you havent lost any time waiting for it,

How many times has axl said "fall late fall the album will be out", "people will hear music this year" etc..

Let the ball keep on moving , just dont expect it to be coming to a stop anytime soon

Things happen. He said all of that stuff, because he wanted it and expected it to be out, but I'm sure there were things that happened to hold it up.

...so the label went through all that trouble and blew their load with a GN'R greatest hits...to make...10 or 15 million dollars. Worldwide.

Right.

Once again, even if it sold 100 million copies and the label made $10 tax-free per album, Greatest Hits is not the Chinese Democracy Funding Apparatus. It was a way to make money in 2003.

And now I'm going to be a hypocrite and say "isn't this thread about Richard's e-mail"?

What's with this obsession about wanting to know if the album has been handed in?  It's none of our business anyways.  If the record company is causing the delay, what difference does it make if the CD was handed in or not? 

cybercurves

so your telling me that for the first time ever Chinese Democracy is considered finished? You cant be serious. What Bach has said in regards to the album has been said countless times by band members and people around the band in the past.

Axl even told us about the 3 album plan back in London in 02. We have known about that for years. CD has been finished for years. It could have been released at anytime from 00-2006. Over time the album has changed. Luckily Axl was smart enough not to release it when he first came back during RIO. I think the album that we will be hearing didnt begin to take shape till around 03-05ish. The Bucket Era.

 During the past 7 yrs Axl has stated on different occasions the release of CD. To think that the album hasnt been finished this whole time is being naive. If it hasnt been finished over the yrs why would Axl bring up potential release dates over time?


Yea, you are correct. Im not a fan. Im a person who wants to hear his favorite bands upcoming album that I have been PATIENTLY waiting for for almost 7 yrs now. I am a person who wants to rock out and hear studio cuts of a new band that he knows has the talent and potential to make great music. Silly me.

You keep insinuating that I have no life or am bitter over this situation. We have had this argument a zillion times.
JUST BECAUSE YOU CRITIQUE SOMETHING DOESNT MEAN YOU ARE NOT A FAN. If you would come back to Earth like the rest of us for just one day you would realize that. We all dont party with the band. So mabe for you its harder to knock the process. For me it isnt. The situation is what it is. And again, I could careless about the wait. "I have a life". As do many others. Some things have been handled poorly over the yrs. What is so wrong about that? Get Bfoots guitar out of your ass. Your way to wound up.

I think the main thing that is dissapointing is what D touched on. A lot of us feel like Axl built up the mystique and anticipation and then blew his shot at a memorable comeback. To add on that, nothing will compare to the mystique and excitement this band created from lets say 00-04/05ish. But the delays, the tours, the lack of a gameplan, or lack of execution has killed that spark. Which is fine. Its not a big deal because when the album drops most of us will get pumped again. But your attitude along with others is comical. Its corny. especially jim bob. You all need to get off your knees.
Unfortunately there is "no logic here today". Its all gone. Everything is go axl, where can gnr play next, and if u dont like that fuck off. which is lame. its not what gnr is about.

I agreet o some extent,

but Alot of people are underestimating gnr ,

I mean for all those people who think "GNR have lost their chance, they lost the momentum they built up in 00-06 etc"
Must have the ability to see into the future,
because I cant even see how thats believable,

How much momentum did gnr exactly build in the last 5 yearS?
From what I can tell, not a great lot in the whole sceam of things, I mean last years 70 concerts were great,
but were done with little to very low promotion, compared to other bands in the world today,
With that said, even though it was considered a good acheivement by any standards with bands,

For gnr, they fell below their goal, but its their own undoing, They didnt promote enough, and obviously no album to fall back onto to promote..

So, I completely disagree to see how axl has lost his chance, when Once this album does come out,
The whole marketing machine will be at full speed and everyone will be sick to the death of hearing about guns n roses chinese democracy (if thats ever possible for some of us)

This is one band we cant underestimate,
keep that in mind  :beer:

Don't get me wrong Gunns1, I still think Axl can comeback and be the biggest superstar in music.? CD coming out and being huge puts him right back up there.

But u gotta picture this:

for over 4 years, there were I think 2 pics of Axl

1. jamming with Gilby Clarke at that club

2. His Mug Shot from the Arizona arrest.

Thats it


they play ROCK In Rio 3 which was a nice comeback


But when they got announced at MTV VMAs 2002, The world was ready for GNR, I mean that place was ELECTRIC, u could feel it coming through the TV screen

Axl was this mythical, legendary figure that everyone was so curious and so intrigued with that they were just mindfucked that he was performing.

Had Axl looked and sounded like he does now and then a single/video been released the next day and the album out that November, It would've been fuckin amazing, the PERFECT COMEBACK.

I mean it feels in a way like Axl missed a great moment, a great opportunity, one that would've been relived for decades as one of the greatest moments in music history.

instead he came out with that Clean,high pitched rasp free unAxl like voice,baggy jersey and ran out of breath during WTTJ.

thats what bugs me.

We as GNR fans will always Fucking have Axl's back no matter what he does or how long it takes BUT, u have to consider the casual fan, the non fan and the critics waiting for him to fall on his face. All he is doing, Is giving them tons of ammunition and that bothers me.

I also feel bad for the New members who have sacrificed and worked their asses off, only to be mistreated by some fans and to be treated as an afterthought when they should be getting the praise they deserve.

It has to be frustrating for them to go out everynight as a glorified tribute band when they know they have amazing, kick ass music of their own that they can't play yet cause the fuckin album won't get released.


Sometimes I wonder if Axl knows just how great he is.?

fair enough man,
but I wouldn't of wanted cd 5 years ago, because If Axl sounded on cd as he did at the Mtv awards and the whole 01/02 tour,
Then I would of rather of waited till he sounded better on cd,
It wasnt his time back then
he wasnt ready back then,
both mentally, physically, and his voice,band etc...

Axl said on eddie trunk, That he needed those shows in 2002 so hes band could gel together and "feel each other out" to speak,

So it acheived its purpose,
Now axl looks like hes back, he looks like he has attitude, every performance he gives now , from the 06/07 shows, He looks like hes pissed off and
he as a point to proove, which to some people he does, but to us he doesnt,

Hes winning the world back, 1 person at a time, and once cd hits, which hopefully will be next year ( I say that every year)
It will win over the world.

I cant believe how incredible he sounds now.  I think its the best he has ever sounded in his career..... well except maybe late 80's very early 90's.

He sounds way better than he did on the Illusion tour thats for sure.


I agree also, i wouldn't have wanted that 2002 voice on CD, However he got his voice back, Id love to know cause it is fuckin amazing now.

it would still be great to have,
cause some of the new songs sound great with his high pitched voice
like rehad and blues

I agree
The Blues was perfect at RIR3, one of my fav songs Ever, brings chills to me and hits me deep on an Estranged level

Every other version, I can barely sit through............. weird. :confused:

please go and check FM-tribute 1992 or Chicago 1992 again before making such a lame statement, thanks.

Please check Nightrain from rock am Ring 2006,

or Any song from Dec 20 2006 , California I think,
Before doubting his voice now,

Thanks.

you were the one making the general statement: "He sounds way better than he did on the Illusion tour thats for sure." <-- disagreed.

i've only pointed out some Axl voice highlights from the Illusion era he just cant reach vocally today anymore.
but i also agree he has some other highlights in 2006.

and hey, we're off topic? :peace:

We are always way off topic


Yeah, I agree Chicago 92 is phenomenal

but compared to some shows I have boots of from 92-93, he sounds better now.

For sure. One of the best shows I have ever seen, and I've seen a few, was in June of '91.

could somebody answer me one questions please :

 Why are we picking on each other that much?
 We are here to talk about ?a band we all love . A lot of peolple here are doing this rollercoaster ride for some years now.....I can only speak for myself but the music of GNR means a lot to me and when a GNR tune is running it usually gets me by the nuts....
On the other hand it must be allowed to say that this whole "releasing an album and doing a perfect comeback thing " wouldn't run a lot more chaotic if Axl's dog would be deciding everythng ?::) Most of the time it is pure fucking chaos. What happened between 2001 - 2007 was fun to watch but often well worth to shake ones head....

The discussions i read become more and more agressive .
. D says that Jarmo says that . Youngunner says that MR XXX says this etc.
It's a fucked up atmosphere these days...
And at the end everybody is telling the other to fuck off...
This thread is a good example for that

and that brings me to another "issue " which is actually also directed to Jarmo :

 Jarmo, ?the whole GNR story is very complicated and full of legal stuff,mental problems ,great shows and large periods of silence.
Of course peolpe are getting fed up with the situation and begin to post their anger,disbelief , disapointment whatever.

In the last few moments this place turned out into a warzone with you Jarmo playing the role of SGT Slaughter ?sometimes
Every time a "hot" topic is born and peolple start to talk about certain issues GNR definately has you come along and try to tell us how dumb we are...
That is not necessary.It is actually uncool and it is poison for this board.

I am aware of the fact that you need to delete some dumbass- posts ands that you have to ban some Fuckers from time to time but to me it appears that GNR became something likew a "holy cow" to you and that you get angry at anyone who touches that holy cow....

Ist that the case or is it mis-interpretation from my side ??
Don't misunderstand me . I don't want to start a fight or something i just think that this board deserves a lot more than us telling each other how stupid and fucked up we are
!!

the hold up at the moment is because of the leaks.....   If i were a record label i would be the same


RECORD LABEL SAYS-   

" four songs from your 12 songs recorded for the forthcoming album have already leaked," "well then we need some fresh songs then to replace them"....... " you cant sell thbat once3 it already out there.

IM SURE THE LEAKS FUCKED THEM UP.

the album they handed in may only have a few of the leaked songs but enough for them to stop it.

^

I disagree.

Not all rock fans or people who will buy the album have heard the leaks or gone to the shows! You've gotta keep in mind that we're a minority here. Most people barely know that they've been touring etc. Only hardcore fans have REALLY heard the news songs. Most concert goers don't even remember the "new" songs anymore when they exit the venue. They'll just nod and say yeah the news songs were great too! Maybe they'll then go and find out what those songs were, but that's a MAYBE. And youtube quality sucks anyway, LOL.

The record company must know that.

And btw didn't they play UYI songs before the albums were released? Not to mention that the songs we have heard live may (and will) sound completely different on the record.

I was going to post something inane. However, this board has, at the very least, proven that there is a flaw in Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)

there's a huge difference between...

1. "the album is complete"

AND

2. "the album is in the record label's hands"

HUGE difference.

Shows how ignorant you are.



Please explain why it's only had one tentative release date then.  :)



It's called a wish? A hope?

You know, like the Mets would say "we hope to win the World Series in 2008" (if they had a chance).





Turncoat fan.



As I said, constructive criticism is one thing, your posts is another.




Ah, the old insults when all else fails.





More insults.

Now that's comical coming from a "fan" going to a fan site to whine about shit he has no control over.

What do you know about what GN'R is about?

It's very much about that. This is who we are and how we are, if you don't like it, fuck off.

That's GN'R for you.






/jarmo

Really unnecessary to drag the Mets into this :)

Never!  :P

 :hihi:





/jarmo

What will happen first, mets getting a world series or CD coming out?  I'm a fan of both and am hoping for a good 08.  I was hoping for a good 07, 06, 05 etc....   this year is different though!

I hate to sound like an a$$kisser ( :P ) but I have to agree with Jarmo on this. This is the first time we've had many people telling us that the record is with the record company now. This is not some rumour from mygnr or where ever people post bullshit all the time.
There must be something wrong with people who think this is not good news. Maybe they get their kicks out of bashing people & gnr and good news are bad news to them, because once the album is out they can't make fun of it anymore.

You bash Axl like that and you'll probably get banned. ::) So you guys bash Jarmo instead. How mature of you. ?:drool:

 :-* :-* :-*
(http://kids.christiansunite.com/images/animals/ass.jpg)

jarmo, surely you're not saying that the bands "stategy"/plan/ the way things have been handled in the last 5-10 years has been anything other than shambolic?

by axls own admission the MTV thing was "a disaster".........and that is just one of many things that have made the band a bit of a joke among the general public.

I personally wish that the band didn't handle their affairs in such a shoddy way, as it takes the shine off, what will be, amzing music.

Often things happen that are out of your control.

Yet you're quick to point fingers.


It's like you plan on going from A to B, but then you realize you can't take the shortest way because the bridge is closed. So you end up going from A to B via Z! A little detour.....



/jarmo

Love this quote ;D
Please check Outa Get Me from Pukkelpop 2002, thanks.

:hihi:

It's great news, just confirms what we already knew tho and I agree with Sklermo, why whine and be so negative :P

I think it just adds to the mystery of what is GnR. ?8) I don't ever want them to be ordinary. Extraordinary & different sounds a lot better and way more interesting than shiny, polished and (over)produced.

Yes, maybe the "mtv thing" was a disaster to some people, but look what it started. Maybe if Axl hadn't gone up to the stage that night he wouldn't be touring now? In the last couple of years he's definitely proven people (fans and everyone else) that he's not just some jersey-wearing-weirdo-has-been, but a musical genious with a great band & perhaps revolutionary new music. Now he can get the album out and be what he is meant to be. They sound right, look right... I think now is the right time. And I hope the record company and everyone else involved think so too. :yes:

It's been a pretty long detour.  Jarmo I really don't care anymore when the cd comes out but you do have to admit fans have a reason to be frustrated about the wait.  It's been too long.  GN'R fans are constantly let down year after year with no release.  Quit trying to sound like the ultimate GN'R fan.  Axl will not give you a ribbon for it. 

You people seem to think I'm in some kind of competition. I'm not.

I'm just not interested in hearing you go on and on and on about the same fucking shit year after year. If you lost all hope, I don't care. I don't need to hear it.

If you need to vent, check out that thread in Dead Horse.

I don't need to see your "frustration" in every thread related to the album. Get it?


The truth is, you don't want to post there because you looove the attention. If all the "youngunners" on the board stuck to posting in that thread alone, instead of ruining every other thread with their "it's not coming" routine, I wouldn't have to do this every fucking time.




/jarmo

I've been reading all the back and forth shit and It's about time you Jarmo have said what you just wrote...

It makes sense.... great point!

I cant bring myself to read all the fighting going on here....

but let me say this....

if we never get Chinese Democracy (stay with me here), we already heard many of the tunes that would have been on it. That's first and foremost, we already have heard the title track, maddy, irs, better, rhiad, blues, there was a time.....as far as im concerned, i already got most of CD with the leaks, and the title track, Chinese Democracy, is mind-blowing. The last leak WAS STUDIO QUALITY, ready for the radio....so as far as I am concerned, Im happy, I have many of the songs.

Sure, Id like to hear these other titles that have been thrown out there, like Sorry, Thyme etc. etc.


BUT...........we need to stop fighting. Axl has delivered Appettite, Lies, UYI's, SI, Live double album, Greatest Hits, '00 show, '01 shows, 2002 MTV, 2002 Tour (12/6/02 best show ever, in NYC at MSG) and the 2006/07 tours. ENOUGH with the complaining!!!!!!!

FRUSTRATED??????????? go listen to the radio for 45 seconds (if u can stomach it) then turn on Rocketqueen, Estranged, Breakdown, Locomotive, Coma, Human Being, Jungle, Scom, Maddy, CD, There was a Time.....go listen to GNR, AXL.....stop complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!

no, it shows that Ive been paying attention over the years. Have you not heard the same statements from other band members including Axl in the past? minus the its in the labels hands. And Im sure the album has been in the labels hands atleast once before.

As I have said this whole time....Until the album is in the labels hands then we will never be close to the album. History dictates that. Not me, not you, not whining, or being positive. So if in fact the album is in the labels hands then we are all in good shape.


stop trying to twist what Im saying. You claimed that this album is finally done. i said its been done in the past. You scoffed at the idea. I never said anything or whined about Axl not coming thru on potential release dates.

I said that the album has been done a few times over the years. To think otherwise is being naive.


what part of ...."Axl/gnr havnt handled certain things well over the years" isnt constructive criticism??

[quoteMore insults.

Now that's comical coming from a "fan" going to a fan site to whine about shit he has no control over.

What do you know about what GN'R is about?

It's very much about that. This is who we are and how we are, if you don't like it, fuck off.

That's GN'R for you.Your the one who started with the insults buddy. I cant control the fact that you are stuck in the clouds and think that anyone who critiques the band are whiners and bitter people. Thats how you operate not me.

I cant control the fact that you cant handle criticism of your favorite band. There are certain things Axl has done over the years that havnt been handled properly imo. Its just an opinion dude. Obiviously Axl and this band have provided a lot more positive things than negative. And will continue to do so in the future. Everyone makes mistakes dude.....Im sure Axl will admit to some. Heck he even said that most of the old videos are corny in retrospect. If some1 said that on here you would be all over their ass saying...if you dont like it get off the train or some other corny shit...but being Axl said that its prob ok to say it ...

This is a forum. We all love the band. We all want to see the band release CD and dominate the scene. Most of us want to see the members of this band...particularly Robin, Tommy, and Pittman see all of their hard work rewarded and recognized. Some of us feel like there have been some missteps along the way. I could careless about the wait at this point. Its tedious but whatever its cool. We wait, We support. We all have lives Jarmo. But sometimes in life you question how things are being run or how things are perceived to be. In doing so, it doesnt make you less of a fan.

You and others might be content with the band playing the same setlist for every city in the world. Others arent as excited after the 3rd go around. Others crave a CD tour, a CD album.

As a fan, it was imo, ?the best time to release CD was in 2006. Axl worked on the album/s for 6 yrs. The album changed over time(probably for the better) as the band formed and gelled (Bucket). Axl was able to get the band out of the studio and gel as a band and introduce the band back in 02. They then went away for awhile. The mystique was still there. Then came 2006. That is when the album should have dropped. But it didnt for various reasons im sure. Thats all fine and dandy. Its not a big deal . We have all waited. We are numb to the waiting.

The truth is many people who come here and support the band need to supply themselves with a vomit bag. All the ass kissing and excuses around here is comical. Yea I know If I dont like it why do you come here. TWAT that this place was the place to be to discuss gnr. bad and good. compare old and new. compare new with the new. compare the new band with the music scene. etc. That has slowly changed over the yrs. Its still the place to be....but the atmosphere has changed.

You keep saying that I hijack threads. When did I ever say the album isnt coming out? Do you even know what im saying? you love twisting things to fit your argument. Clearly a Booker tactic. Im sure he would be proud that you kept his tradition alive.

Im sorry I cant get into the where will GNR play next threads. Im sorry I cant get into the "person x says the album is done and its great" threads anymore. Like me, and all the others, those threads belong in the dead horse section too.....99% of what is discussed here should be in the dead horse section.

Jarmo stop with Dr Phil comments. I dont care about attention. If I cared about attention I would post every day the same shit. I barely post anymore. Theres nothing to talk about. Again just because I have a different opinion on certain things doesnt mean me or anyone else are seeking attention. Your over reaction and nutswinging to those opinions seem to be seeking attention. From who I dont know. I understand you have strings attatched but dam. You need to chill out and realize that not everyone has to have the same opinion as you.

wtf is going on in this happy thread? ???

younggunner read your own posts from 2003, 4 and 5. those must be hell comical to you.

younggunner you make some good points. one can be a hardcore fan and be critical of the band at the same time.
 
and every hardcore fan  has got numb to the waiting, after waiting so many years.

however i disagree with you  when you say that the perfect time to release CD was in 06.
i know that your love for bucket plays a role in that (and totally respect that) but for me the only perfect time to release CD is when
Axl feels he is ready to do it. he has been working on this project for so damn long that he deserves to do this in his own way  :beer:

Oh yeah, you're the one paying attention.

You failed to answer a few simple questions.

But whatever. I guess it's easy to tell yourself how right you are when you don't need to take facts into account!




Assuming it's been 100% done in the past, how come it was being mixed earlier this year?

Obviously something wasn't done since Axl, Baz and others were still recording in January.



You obviously seem to get confused. It's possible the album was nearly done in the past.




How the hell do you know that?

Considering what I said above and the fact that you or I don't even know what the album looks like (meaning track listing etc.).






Do you understand the concept?

In order to be constructive you have to offer suggestions.

Now, in order to do that, you'd have to have a lot of knowledge that we, the fans, don't have.


"Release the album" isn't constructive criticism.




I'm stuck in the clouds? Yeah right.

You're the one who's doing the same fucking boring whine routine year after year.

Just because I refuse to join your whine choir doesn't mean my head's not where it's supposed to be.


You're upset about a lot of shit you have no control over. That can't be healthy.

Try getting rid off all that anger for once.

Be positive.







I can, and I deal with it almost daily.

I just can't handle the same group of people whining about the same fucking thing year after year.

You'll never be happy.





The difference between people like you and me are that I focus on the good.

I don't spend my days focusing on shit that annoy me.

You seem to focus on the things that upset you. Which happens to be things you have no control over!  No fucking wonder it's frustrating.

It's like when the weather sucks, I'm not gonna let it ruin my whole day.



Unlike you, I can understand that people in certain countries/places are seeing the show for the first time. I can be happy for others instead of just demanding to get things my way.




As I've said multiple times, different opinions are understandable. I just don't need to welcome the negative fans to bring everybody else down.


If this doesn't interest you, go on logout.  :)





/jarmo

what?


I totally agree. i have been saying for yrs that when its done its done and it will be out. I have no problem with the wait. And I agree when Axl deems its ready then that is when it should be released.
I wrote that from a standpoint of being the best case scenario from my perspective.

But in saying that, I do think that Axl has made a few mistakes over the yrs. I dont see the problem with that statement but Jarmo clealry does. He feels the need to put on his cape and make statements like..things change over time, this isnt burger king you cant have it your way, this is gnretc etc etc. Basically he states the obivious every time. We all know this is Axl and its unpredictable. We all know that Axl will do AND HAS THE RIGHT to do what he wants and release the album when he wants. We already know that Jarmo. Save yourself the typing.

But what I know is that it is very normal...in fact very healthy to have different oppinions on a band. or anything for that matter.

Actually, I think the perfect time was in fact 2006. That's not to say that I think this was even possible, or that I blame anyone in particular, but the momentum after those Hammerstein gigs, Izzy jamming on stage, leaks, great tour , etc...... that does seem like this current lineup was becoming relevant again and demanding some attention that would have been promotion in itself.

For fuck's sake.

You don't even know the full picture but you feel the need to be there with your "Axl has made mistakes!  :yes: " posts. Does it make you feel better?

When he explains what has happened, your kind is there calling him a liar....


This is your routine: "This sucks! This sucks! That sucks! This sucks because they didn't do that!".

Now, here's me: "That might suck, but you don't know the reason so there's no need to speculate and point fingers!" or "it might suck for you, but there are others who are happy about it".


You're tired of me repeating the same things? Well, it goes both ways. The day you stop whining about the same shit is the day I don't need to remind you of basic things!  : ok:


You must be a great conversationalist. I bet you tell everyone around you year after year how many mistakes they've made and how you have all the solutions to all their problems.  :P



/jarmo

just read them.

OMG

Will you guys go put on the Illusions or the Leaks and relax!!! I've seen GNR 5 times since 2002, and I have new music, don't you?! whats the problem?!?!?!

Its not like someone is saying you cannot watch GNR or listen to GNR. You can, go do it. There are three high-quality versions out there of CD, BLUES, and There Was A Time. Go enjoy them!!


Chinese Democracy will be just an album, its not a worldwide movement for peace.  You may be let down if this is all you're concerned with. Enjoy what is already there, it didn't disappear.

But he didn't get the album he was promised and it's been done for years!  :crying:




/jarmo

LOL what im saying though is this: if we think this CD will change the world, we are mistaken. i mean, i hope it does, but there may be a let-down, a "this is what i was waiting for" feeling, b/c what if the album has 12 new songs, and we already heard 6 of them. will you be let down?

im as frustrated as the rest of us, read my old posts, but......im starting to realize we may look back at this time and say, what were we fighting for, why didnt we just enjoy GNR and Axl.

The fact of the matter is NONE OF US KNOW WHY ITS TAKEN SO LONG, and there could be some very legit reasons as to why its taking long. Imagine this: what if, WHAT IF, Axl was forced to pay people once CD comes out that werent invovled with it. For example, what if legally, Slash could say he wants money for CD's sales.....we have no idea how long it takes to sort this kinda stuff out. What if Bucket is insisting on royalties? What if Axl doesnt wanna pay all of these people?? I know I wouldnt release something that all these other people will stake a claim to for cash. And again, WE HAVE NO IDEA. Go listen to Locomotive!

What questions would you like answered?


Stop being so technical. This is what I mean. You throw an argument out because its not official.
Lets break it down for you....
If Axl didnt think the album was done do you think he would have ever said that he hopes for it to be released in 00, 02,06, or whenever else he said he hopes for it to be released?

Just because the album might have never been in the mixing or mastering stage doesnt mean it wasnt done. I am sure the majoirty of songs have been mixed quite a few times over the yrs as well.
Axl would never say he hopes to release the album in "x" if he didnt think it was done. If you honestly think that the album hasnt been done over the yrs I feel sorry for you. Yes, the album that was done in 00 will be diff than the one in 02,05 or the one we eventually get. But if at anypoint Axl wanted to release the album during those yrs the album would have been done.

Its comical how you think otherwise.

Also, band members, people around the band, and Axl himslef have stated at different points in time that the album is done.


I can offer suggestions but then you would say I dont know the facts. Which would be accurate. Like you said, no one knows he facts. But now all of a sudden we arent allowed to speculate? This is a forum not the court of law. Get a grip dude. Everyone here has made assumptions and speculated, including yourself. I dont understand the crime in speculating. You wouldnt have a fukin website if there was no speculation and assumption regarding gnr. Gnr is the epitomy of speculation and thats what brings fans here. To look into that mysterious band and see whta there all about.

Most of us have followed this situation for years. Plenty of people here are capable of collecting all of the facts and info that has been presented over the years and formulate an opinion on the matter. You can disregard them all you want but the writing is on the wall.

If you or GNR were so concerned about speculation and hearsay they would come out and give updated info. Im not saying I demand that. SO dont go off and twist that. But thats what they would do if they were so concerned. They dont and thats fine. But like everything in life....there are unintended consequences. it comes with the territory.

Dude, stop playing Dr Phil. Your not good at it. When I listen to songs like Better, Madagascar, CD, etc I AM FOCUSING ON THE GOOD. jackass. Just because I dont wax poetic about GNR an dhow they operate or come up with every technical excuse doesnt mean I dont focus on the good.



Well sometimes different opinions have some negativity. Deal with it. Your a big boy.

I dont log out because the band interests me. Why would I log out? Because jarmo from across the world cant deal with negativity and reality?

So I don't want to read through what looks like 14 pages of the arguing thats been going of for 10 years and am wondering if this is true. The album is currently with the label?? Cuz if so thats awesome. It means its finally done. ?: ok: :smoking:

I dont care what you think sucks or what makes you happy. I also dont go around saying everything sucks. Stop trying to sound like an Axl rant. Its sad.

Again, for the 100000000 time....people are aloowed to have opinions. you can agree or disagree. If your sick of it then dont come to the board. Its a forum. Where different people have different opinions.

No1 knows the full picture of anything. So why are we here then? To stroke gnrs balls all day? Again if gnr were so ocncerned they would update. they dont its cool. speculate all day who cares. thats what this is..a fukin forum....every forum in the world speculates.....take off your skirt its getting sad it really is

Dude, you know the GNR and AXL deal. Why does this surprise you? Axl controls........well, b/c he is Axl. If he doesnt want things online, or he wants Jarmo to erase negative comments, so be it. I would do the same thing. Again, Axl can do this b/c he is Axl and there never will be another one again. He is, without a doubt, the best frontman of all time, with legitimate mystique, legitimate legend, and a list of songs that would make any singer/lyricist feel worthless when in comparison.

Technical? It's logical!

Kurt: What's gonna happen now? Is Chinese Democracy going to come out? Are we gonna see it soon?

Axl: Umm you'll see it, I dont know if soon is the word. But it will come out and we will, we'll go back, we'll do some more recording and then we'll start the American leg of the tour... And see how it goes from there.

Axl on MTV August 29th, 2002

Does it sound like it was 100% done to you?






That's interesting.

So the album was done even though it wasn't finished.

Let's assume your cooking dinner, is it done when you out the stuff in the pan or do you have to wait until the food is fried/cooked first?







And I'm the naive one.....

Here we have a guy who knows what Axl thinks and means. :)



Obviously it's possible that certain things were completed.

But it wasn't finished enough to be released.



They believed it was coming out in previous years. I don't remember anybody saying it was ready for release.




Depends.

It's kinda pointless to have ten wanna be managers trying to decide what's a good move for GN'R when none of them have any idea about the business.

Do you like to tell everybody else how to do their jobs too?

Try it next time you go to the dentist. "I think you should do it like this. It seems reasonable to me!".  ;)





Thanks for the suggestion Mr. "The album is done without being finished". :)





And some of you take bits and disregard facts in order to make yourself feel good!






More insults.....

I'm not playing anything unlike you.

I'm giving you examples of why I think your actions are a total fucking waste of everybody's time.




Why would you logout? Isn't it obvious?

GN'R seems to be like a pimple on your face.

It fucking annoys you.




By the way, is your post done while you're still typing in order to finish it?  ???





Haha!

Ok, stop sounding like Oprah, you're no good at it. :)





/jarmo

ahh did i miss something ?

Jarmo, man - I love the site, but this kind of argument  and attitude is threatening to ruin a site you've spent years building up. This is why everyone's moving to other GNR sites. Look, this younggunner attitude obviously drives you insane - so just ignore it. Don't get involved. A lot of us agree though with him though, and want to hear what he has to say. Is is so wrong? Does it make you cross when people don't agree with you or something?

And this idea that we should all be posting in the 'dead horse' section - time to get realistic. This band had done very little in so many years - so there's very little to say that hasn't been said a thousand times before. Until the album comes out, there are going to be a lot of frustrated GNR fans. And guess what, with all your Dr Phil psychology knowledge you'll know this - with this being a GNR site, expect some venting. No need for all the pompous self-importance. Just try to understand that there are a lot of unhappy fans and its human nature to express yourself. This isn't Nazi germany, you know? Relax.

Last year Merck and this year the label ???? :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Its funny how you only bring that one up.

Could someone please pull up every Axl statement in regards to the album and when he hopes it will be coming out?

Again, just because the album wasnt mixed{which im sure some of it has been along the way} and mastered doesnt mean it wasnt finished.

Axl has said on several different occasions that he hopes the album will be out on "x". If the album wasnt done he would have never said that. At any point in time Axl could have declared the album finished and sent it off to be mixed and mastered. I understand that getting the mix right is part of the process but in general terms the album was done. You want to use some loopholes to make the claim that the album hasnt been done a few times be my guest.

Take a poll on this website and ask the people if they believe based on what they have heard from Axl and bandmembers over the past 7 yrs if the album has been done several times along the way.

Please.

If you think I'm gonna let a few "unhappy" fans ruin the site with their constant whining, you're wrong.

For example, we could have had a bunch of fans being excited and happy about the summer shows while a bunch of fans in the rest of the world whine about the setlist. It just doesn't work like that here.

If it bothers you, go somewhere else.  :)

I don't care...... I never wanted to have a site used as a tool to put down the band we're fans of. That makes no sense to me. Maybe it makes sense to you though.



How original of you! Never heard that before. Did you come up with it all by yourself?

Do you even know what it means? Maybe you saw all the cool kids use the phrase and you thought it was bad ass....




Funny how it only took me a minute to show you how your "technical" opinion is flawed....



Are you done now or are you finished?




/jarmo

you didnt show anything. Its funny how you brought up 1 statement out of atleast 4 or 5. Please bring up the rio interview, london rant, korn party, merck, and anything else im forgetting. I dont care enough to go back and get them.

I guarentee everyone here agrees with what im saying

its been done, and like Axl, it can be finished when I deem its finished  ;)

Not to be a negative ninny, but if the album is ever released, not only will it not change the world, it likely won't change the music industry. It won't even take the industry out of its slump. It won't sell as many copies as Appetite. It won't make non-GNR or non-new-GNR fans fall in love with Axl and Bumblefoot. It won't erase years of bad press for Axl, or for the delays it has had. It won't allow GNR to reclaim it's place as the most popular band in the world. It won't fulfill all expectations. It won't make you lose weight, fall in love, have a new car, a more fulfilling life or even help you retire earlier.

What will it do?

With any luck at all, even a very, very small amount of luck, if the album is released, IT WILL ROCK! The leaks and the live shows have already shown that. It will provide fans with a great new set of songs. Not every song will be liked by every fan, but I think most fans will like it, and it may even become a new favorite for many. Years after its release, some may even consider it a classic.

All it can do, all it will do, is entertain and possibly even generate some thought. I think expecting anything else from it is unreasonable.

With that said, I just want the album. As long as it's not released exclusively on 8-track and cassette.

I used to. Im done complaining. Im trying to convince myself I already have half of the album anyway.

I don't.  I think you are making a lot of assumptions and speculations, and its pointless until we have all the facts.

no

I don't remember in those axl says he hopes the album will be out on what date

After all, before he lends his talents to others' projects, Rose has one of his own to finish, and he says it's getting there. "We're working on thirty-two songs, and twenty-six are nearly done," he says.

January 18th, 2006
Axl Rose Breaks His Silence

One more.....

Of course you don't care enough to go look for the actual quotes.

In your mind, the way you remember them and the meaning they have to you, Axl has told you the album was done and ready for release years ago.

The rest of us understand that there might've been things that were completed and that often they talked about wishing to release the album.




Yes, everybody agrees that something that isn't finished is done!



/jarmo

darn, i really thought u were gonna be one of the members who agreed with me....silly me... ::)

Which facts ? A E-Mail?......The only fact is that there is no release since the year 2000.

I could give you the list of "everybody" who agrees with you.

 :hihi:



/jarmo

YOUNGGUNNER: I think many agree with you, but for me, the fight is over. Im done waiting, Im more in an "Enjoy what IS there" phase.    :smoking:



EDIT: And for the record, back to the original focus of this thread, Fortus has not emailed me back once I apologized for releasing his email to me.

Well , lets look at it this way . We have heard similar stuff in the past about the album being done or being almost done ,ect. So, while it is cool hearing from Baz and Richard that the thing is done and turned into the label . It?s a little hard to get excited about .

Will it be awesome if the album comes out in 08 or sometime ? Hell Yes it will. If it doesn?t come out will that change anybody life ? No , it wont .

Please.

If you think I'm gonna let a few "unhappy" fans ruin the site with their constant whining, you're wrong.

For example, we could have had a bunch of fans being excited and happy about the summer shows while a bunch of fans in the rest of the world whine about the setlist. It just doesn't work like that here.

If it bothers you, go somewhere else.  Smiley

Relax, big boy! Don't be so naive - your perspective is a little bit rose-tinted here, it seems. Most GNR fans will agree with me that we've really not had a whole lot to enjoy from the band for a while. Many fans are frustrated. Thats just how it is. Its a fact - not just opinion.

If only the vacant-eyed, Prozac poppers are allowed to post then what will the result be? It just baffles me why you would want that, anyway. Whats the appeal? Maybe that everyone will nod instinctively with your every robotic pro-GNR utterance? That sounds dull to me. Its getting very 'agree with Jarmo or go elsewhere' around here.

Why do you find honest debate so offensive, Jarmo? Don't get involved. You seem to feel a need to get nvolved in, and win every argument around here. You have nothing to prove. Simmer down, big man!

The expectations of the band turns now to the new album, "Chinese Democracy", which will be released in June. The leader guarantees his fans that they will be rewarded for the long wait.
Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.



Axl: We hadn't written songs or recorded for many years. There were band changes and there were many changes in the record company. People in the record company had many opinions and they wanted to make the best possible record. Every time that we thought that we had the correct songs, then somebody thought that we could make it better. We started over, we continued adding songs, continued recording and recording.

Q: So when is the album going to be released?

A: I've heard that it's coming out in March -- but then again I've heard a lot of things, so you never know.


fortus interview

Regardless we hope to announce a release date within the next few months.

axl 2004 rio press release

That record's really close to being completed and put out," he added, but declined to guess when exactly that will be.

"It's been scheduled every month for the last 10 years," he deadpanned, adding that once the record's out "there will be a flurry of chaos that I'll be thrown into."


tommy 05


Having failed to deliver a new album by the end of the twentieth century, is Rose ready to commit to releasing a record sometime during the twenty-first?

''Yes, I think that would definitely be the right time,'' he answers, a slight grin coming to his face.

The new Guns N Roses album is tentatively titled Chinese Democracy and loosely scheduled for summer 2000.

''As far as I can tell,'' says GnR's manager Doug Goldstein, ''we are now 99% musically done and 80% vocals done. I see the record being done Feb or March for a summer release.''rio

In regard to a release date for the album itself, certain minor - and I do mean minor -- additions, as well as contract negotiations, need to be completed.axl

the album has been done over the yrs. It could have been released at any point in time. Various things have stopped that from happening. But to say that the album was never done over the yrs until now is crazy.
Those are some examples. There are a lot more statement made by band members along the way.

So if you want to get technical and say no, the album hasnt been finished until now. Technically your right. But that is just a cop out. The album at any point from 2000 could have been released.

Fuck!  That is bullshit!  You mean all this time I could have been listening to a new album from my favorite band for the last 7 years, but they chose to deprive me of that?  We've gotta do something about that and, hey, thanks for letting us all know.  Until now, I was simply excited about the prospect of a 2008 release.  Thanks for showing me the light. 

I don't care!

If you're upset and want to take it out on something, go punch a punching bag.

I don't need to be subject to dealing with your frustrations since it's got nothing to do with me.









I highlighted certain important parts in the quotes you supplies as evidence.



Thanks!



No, in my world up here in the clouds something that isn't finished isn't done.  :D



/jarmo

The thing is, rightly or wrongly, the band (in whatever carnation) have missed the boat. The waiting game, has worn thin for some and have moved on, those taking their place won't know of the spirit of the band in their prime. The downloading culture will ensure that the album won't make the money it should have. FWIW, in 2002/03 I thought the album would have hit the shops, but along with Bucketheads departure, the need to put faces to the players on the Album has delaid the release.

Its Jarmo's site and we have to respect the rules he sets down in stone, but to those who don't share his views telling them to FCUK off is more 1991 than 2007. The band don't have that rawness in them, they are more respectful and down to earth. The music industry owes music fans respect and that begins with the bands they sign having to meet obligations expected of them, 14 years for an album to hit the shops means that something ultra special is needed to get the fans to part with their hard earn cash spoken about in Get in the Ring.  I'm aware that issues arise, and Axl or anybody else for that matter shouldn't have their creative ability compromised, but it takes so little to offer the fans the news that they want (or don't want) to hear about (also refered to in GitR).

Axl if you're reading this, just a few words will make a difference brother, we really do want you to do well with CD, but in the mean time, just a few word please sir.

This is great news if true.

what a stupid fucking comment.   you don't know!!   you aren't Axl Rose, you aren't a member of Guns N Roses, how about you shut the fuck up and STOP stating your bullshit assumptions like they are facts.   

what a silly topic of course CD aint with the label!!!

its just what they want you to think.............. 15 years and still waiting labels fault don't think so!!!!

Excellent post.? Probably too close to reality to stick around too long though.?

Oh - except for the falling in love bit.  I was hoping that Chi Dem WAS going to make me more popular with the ladies.  Never mind. 

wow what a tough guy!

Im not making assumptions. The quotes all state that the album could have been released at any point from 2000. Im not making it up buddy. Its all there. Take off the glasses and look.

In fact, the album was going to be released in 2006/7...even Axl said so! but unforseen circumstances curtailed the release...Circumstances that we havnt been briefed on yet.

Or is Axl making assumptions too?? :hihi:

This is too comical it really is. I never seen a bunch of people get so upset over something so stupid. What am I saying? That the album could have been released at any point after 2000..omggggggggggggggggggggg.....what a disgraceful gnr fan i am!!!!!!!!omg how dare I make that logical assumption

but your right jim bob...this is the only time in the history of CD that the album is finally finished and ready for release? ;)? pat urself on the head a few times and insert that axl figurine back in your mouth

It's pretty hilarious for you (younggunner) to use quotes to support the claim that 'the album is done' or 'the album has done many times in the past', yet all the quotes you have use the words hope, close to, etc.

I'm sure that the material has been at a very polished state at many points in history, however an album isn't finished nor complete until it's in the plastic case with the album insert, business plans nailed down, and being mass produced. The track "Oh My God" wasn't even completed yet it was released on the End of Days soundtrack. I doubt that once Axl laid down the final vocal track he looked to the heavens and said, "It is finished...finally I can go to Barbados and relax. Afterall the album is finished...."

It's not that simple. And anyway never in the history of Chinese Democracy has anything been said that 'this is done'...or 'that is done' until Del updated us about the recording.

Exactly!


According to his logic, the Mets won the World Series recent years..... They hoped to win, and maybe they were close one year. So it basically means they won!



All you whiners, what exactly do you think your negativity will accomplish? I mean, besides you feeling good about yourself?



/jarmo

lets assume the album is in the lables hands right now.

then sometime next week Axl says? I need it back to fix some things and the label gives it back and then doesnt return the album back for another 6 months to a yr. Does that mean the album wasnt done when the label had it?


when a band says that an album is done, or they hope for a release within the next 6 months, to me means the album is pretty much done and ready to be released.

Its a common assumption...except of course in gnr land

If the album could have been released, I believe it would have.    Something has been holding this up, could be multiple things, but I don't want to speculate as to what it could be because its not my place to make up bullshit about the band.

^
To back up Youngunner a bit


Wasn't the 98 percent musically and 80 percent vocally thing like in the late 90's?


So it has taken 7 years to complete 2 percent of music and 20 percent of vocals?



All I know is, Hard core loyal fans have been getting frustrated. just look at DaveGNFR2k. There was a time that guy would've drank the sweat out of Axl's boxer shorts and he finally went completely mental.

Now u got youngunner who always supported this new band and has countless posts defending them.


I don't get frustrated because the wait has never really bothered me. ?But yes, I can understand why people would get frustrated. ?I don't think its fair to call someone a non fan or a hater just because their patience is running thin.

Just because we get this email or a statement saying 2008 we are touring and yes the album, Why anyone would get excited is beyond me.

We have had statements like this for years. Oh this year *Insert Year* the album hopefully is coming out. ?

Didn't Axl say on the Eddie Trunk show that the album was coming out in November 2006?

I can see where someone would find it hard to believe that the album has been finished since early Spring and yet sits in a vault for 9 months............................

What worries me, is the fact the label hasn't released it. ?To me if it was this giant all time great masterpiece of an album, they would do everything to release it. ?The fact they havent makes me worry that the album isn't as great as they think it should be.



I just wonder how many more years before Jim Bob cracks...... that is gonna be hilarious cause he is the reincarnation of DaveGnFR2k. 

I posted this earlier waaaay back when this thread started. Here is again, this answered my questions about the album's state.   

September 21st, 2006 - San Francisco, CA @ The Warfield Sold Out!

Notes: Axl stops the show during Sweet Child O' Mine due to some people causing problems. He tells them they're fucking up other peoples' show and asks them if their mommy bought them the tickets. He also says If you think you're a bigger asshole than me, you have alot to learn!" and "I don't wanna throw my money down the toilet.... I know Universal's hoping they didn't!".

With all the talk of the CD being finished or almost finished or in various states of completion over the years, I'm reminded of a really great interview with a former Geffen exec that I think really paints a bleak picture of what was really going on over the years.  I have no reason to doubt the guy.  Check it out:


from gnrwire.com Oct 17th 2005


James Barber who has worked as an A&R at Geffen Records was recently interviewed by Poptones. Here?s the GN?R part of the interview:
?

How did you get involved in Guns N? Roses?

Nothing else had worked, so Geffen figured they?d send me in to talk to Axl after I moved to Los Angeles. We desperately wanted the new album for Christmas 1998 and I had a year to get it finished. Whenever anyone asks me about GNR, I think about Rutger Hauer?s line in Blade Runner: ?I?ve seen things you people wouldn?t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.?

No expense was spared; they were the biggest band in the history of the label and, even though everyone except Axl was gone, Geffen Records lived and breathed for another GNR album.

The Robin Finck/Josh Freese/Tommy Stinson/Billy Howerdel/Dizzy Reed version of the album that existed in 1998 was pretty incredible. It still sounded like GNR but there were elements of Zeppelin, Nine Inch Nails and Pink Floyd mixed in. If Axl had recorded vocals, it would have been an absolutely contemporary record in 1999.

People close to the project have since told me that I don?t know what I?m talking about, that the current version of the record in no way resembles what I heard in early 1999. That?s too bad.

Do you think that Chinese Democracy is ever going to come out?

I have no idea. Seven years ago, the record just needed a lead vocal and a mix. The last time I was at the studio was two days before my daughter was born. Last night she read all of ?Hop on Pop? to me. Some mysteries passeth all understanding.

Yeah, it is. Pretty much as in 90% done or so right? :P
The band and Axl is entirely done with the CD and it's handed to the company acording to Mysteron and Richard, that wasn't the case before.

And I for one am glad this forum isn't like Blabbermouth or places like that :peace:

Remember that Doug apologied in the press about that, and about the fake tour? :hihi:

ok, the fact is that the album easily could have been completed within the past several years. however, as you atleast say jarmo, it has not been. the fact that it is not done, and the band has repeatedly said that they were this [see above quotes] close is complete crap. Theyve been stringing us along for years, telling us things that end up being untrue, and giving us false hope. Axl assured us it would be out many times (eddie trunk show, ect.). im not going to go look them up, and quote them, but you guys know he has. and the fact remains it is not out. he is axl rose. he is in guns n roses. he has made records before. this is not new to him. it should have been out a long time ago, especially since they were "so close" so long ago.

That's just it. ?The album is or will be an epic, timeless masterpiece. ?Why would the label give it the same treatment as all the other albums? ?They can't and they won't. ?Since the label is unstable at the moment, why not wait until they get their shit together before unleashing this masterpiece which is a typical GNR album on one sense, but far from ordinary from another sense. ?

Ironically, Axl is ready and wants to put it out now, but the label isn't. ?

I think something like that was said in the early 2000s.   But since then, members have left, new songs/ideas may have been written, things might have changed, plans might have changed.   and none of this means it COULD have been released because SOMETHING is holding it up.   what?  who fucking knows.   At this point, all we can say is that its in the hands of Universal.

or it could be a number of other reasons, its all speculation, and its pointless.


if the album never comes out, nothing changes regarding my respect for Axl and GnR.   I'm thankful enough for seeing the band 5 times in my life.   If I felt the way some of these people who feel they are "owed" something, I think I would have left back in 2004.    I simply don't feel that way.

There is only one thing he could do that would turn put me off as a fan, but thats for a different thread :)

Recording is done that leaves mixing. Then there's promotion and marketing not to mention the business negations between Guns and Geffen/Universal. Then there's planning a tour in support of a landmark release like Chinese Democracy.


Lets reasonably assume that you don't know what you are talking about then move on. The record isn't out, you can't will it out, life will go on. There's no need to discuss the past but hope for the future.

Seems like there's not that much people who agree with you, younggunner.

They didn't do this before, right? You know that, right?

You're talking like you know for sure that the album was done (including mixing) before and haded to label. You don't know shit, you're guessing. Still, it's the backup for all your arguments.

Yeah, the album could have been released in 1999 even. We all know the leaks from this era. Doesn't mean it was finished ENOUGH and that Axl, the band and crew were happy with the songs back then at the point to really finished it, mix it and hand it to the label. You're talking like they just didn't want to relase the album before because they wanted so.

First you say "to me", then you say "common assumption". Funny.

First, when did they say the album was done? No, for real, without any "close to" or "hope". Thanks.

Second, finish the recording and mixing are different. They may didn't expect legal stuff to delay it even more. Do you know WHEN the mix was finished? Do you know WHEN the album was handed?

Seems like you think you know a lot more than we do for making such baseless assumptions.

And yuor Vanessa's joke with Jim Bob was really rude.  :no:

Isn't there somewhere a statement,w here Axl did hand the record in some years back but the label wasn't happy with it?

I know I read some shit like that somewhere.

no.. i don't believe so.  I think some of the over-analyzing, over-speculating "fans" came up with that idea and its been said so many times that people believe it.

Axl: We hadn't written songs or recorded for many years. There were band changes and there were many changes in the record company. People in the record company had many opinions and they wanted to make the best possible record. Every time that we thought that we had the correct songs, then somebody thought that we could make it better. We started over, we continued adding songs, continued recording and recording.


Silly Axl..

spin that comment Jimmy Boy

Yes it is, from a radio interview in 02. Not "hand in" the record tho.

I guess there's a whole different story. One thing is to show songs (or demos) to the label, other is to deliver the finished product.

Do you really think the label would only know the songs once it was finished?

Excellent post - nice to see some well thought through debate.

- Greg

I dont agree

If Nickelback can sell 6 million in the US

I dont know why GNR wouldn't be able to as long as the songs are good.

Another uncalled for cheap shot against the Mets!  Leave them alone, they never hurt anyone... other than their fans...

If the Mets land Johan Santana, They will have a great shot at the World Series! : ok:

Younggunner is banned for now until further notice. He can say that it's because I don't agree with him.

The usual bullshit. "I was banned because I'm right".

They love to tell you that.


The truth is, he won't tell you about the insults aimed at people who had nothing to do with this topic.

I couldn't care less what he or anybody like him thinks of me, but when you start insulting people in or around the band, I'm gonna put an end to that.




The "evidence" the poster mentioned above supplied shows Axl only mentioned having songs.

That could mean they had 20 songs demoed and they just kept working on more and getting them better. Not that there was a finished album.

Only some of you seem to find all these hidden meanings in words like "hope", "wish" and "almost".





/jarmo

i dont think you should have banned him.

Well, he knows the rules as well as anybody else.

It's time he takes responsibility for his attacks aimed at people who weren't even involved in the "argument".

I'm sure his buddies will pat him on his back and tell him how right he is. :)


Hes done posting here as well as finished!




/jarmo

If Universal have it and they are happy with it then im sure they will be aiming for a summer release, that way they can give maximum exposure to the band, movie tie ins etc. They arent going to put it out straight away, certainly not during Jan, Feb, which are traditionally the worst months to release big albums as people are still poor from Christmas and the New Years.

Hopefully Axl has all the legal stuff with the band and himself sorted. What worries me is in Slash's recent book he states that there is still so much he cant talk about because of legal issues with Axl and the GnR machine. This is probably why we hardly hear from Axl, you dont talk when you have ongoing legal issues!

Jonx

I think I've said this from the first years I was on this forum.

Id rather Axl take 10 more years and release something he  is 100 percent proud of, than rush something just to put out an album.

Hopefully the record label won't drop the ball so if it takes another year to get it just right thats great.


Im just worried the time the album is released, the music industry is gonna be so different that Cd's will be almost obsolete.

Which is a shame cause CD could've been a huge seller.



On A side note;

Not sure why Youngunner was banned. To me he was just defending his argument.? It seems insults were going both ways were they not?

I think a post or two was removed where he was insulting some people.

Didn't know that.

well.........

Just hate to see another Vet go............. thats been on here so long supporting the band.


To me, a lot of people go through periods of frustration. I know I've had a couple of times where I even got frustrated and I don't mind the wait.

I got very excited after the Eddie Trunk interview, Im not gonna lie, and I got even more excited after the Axl press release.

Just seems everytime I get excited, its the same ole same ole............  Which is why Im takin this email and any thing else with a grain of salt now.

Just once, Id like to get excited and things actually take shape and happen.

Didn't this already happened with the 2006 tour? First we had rumors about this (I remember something about the Download Festival since dec 2005) and then we had confirmation and it was great.

They will.

Sad to see how ugly this thread got, I really thought this would be positive news for everyone. 

Obviously when you resort to continued insults, you need to cool off for a bit....




/jarmo

Im confused, if younggunner was banned for insulting people what happened to JimBob for this above comment?

There was one particular comment that broke the camel's back....

He made fun of me, I made fun of him. It's not the point.



/jarmo

Jarmo, jarmo, jarmo....

What does it feel like? You must feel SO powerful. Like such a big man. Go on - illuminate us all, Greek god that you are.

Man, I'm shaking my head sadly.

I've been supporting this band forever. Anyone in their right mind should realize this whole thing is ridiculous at this time. I was expecting something from 02-04. It's 08 now It's getting ridiculous. I'm sure we are all going to buy the album but really this is beyond ridiculous at this point.

I think i know which one...............

I just hope this comes out before GNR get inducted into the R and R hall of fame so maybe the new members get recognized.

I agree. We are the few and the faithful. I know that it's being blamed on negotiations with Geffen, but how in the shit do other bands release albums? Guns isn't the biggest thing going. Hasn't been since about 1992, that's 15 years in the past. The problem is that on one hand we've been told by Axl many times that the album is coming, it's right around the corner, and then a few months later we're chided for asking "Hey man, where's the album." It was supposed to be almost done back in 2000. We've been told by Axl time and again, it's coming. Remember the tentative release date that blew by without so much as an update from GNR's official web site. That's pretty fucking sad.

The album at this point is immaterial to me. I couldn't give a shit about the actual album. What I'm worried about is the legacy. Here is a band that has toured sporadically off and on, mostly off, for the past 7 years with no album, playing mostly cover songs of the previous incarnations of itself. Sure, as GNR fans, we get to be introduced to new talents like Bumblefoot, and we get to see Axl run around stage like he's 25, but the legacy is dying. I'd like to be able to play GNR music without people wondering why I'm still reliving my high school years. 

To jarmo and all the others. As I said before, I have been a fan since they started and I was in my early teens... I am a fan, if anyone says otherwise, they know jack shit. That being said, it is no insult to say the band or representatives of it has made mistakes. The main mistake is not communicating, while saying things such as the 98% done and then nothing for years. Or it will be out in March of 06 only to not really say anything. Jarmo is right, there are reasons none of us will know, but certainly some sort of official hey, we are working on it communication from time to time will keep most fans happy. Sure some of the shit whiners will call it a lie, but there is no shame in saying, it is in the can and we are waiting like you are. And so on. Whatever the reason, fans can only feel like there is momentum only to have it yanked, over and over. I mean, can anyone say it has been handled well - by whomever - when CD is written about there is always a punch line like "really it will be released" or "if it ever is". That line is not said unless people collectively have decided things are never followed through on, do not believe it, or it is an outright joke. The plus of course is that anyone cares to write about it anymore.

The whole thing sucks, but I for one and I suspect most here will be lined up to buy it. For years I would get pumped up everytime I heard something postive - like the Richard comment. But example, when Axl wrote March 06 that was sort of the last straw - from an excitement without action standpoint. I am excited about the album, but there have been too many times where it seems like something is going to happen and then does not. This is why it would be nice to have things clarified once in a while.. even every few months have somethng posted ont eh official website basically just saying hey, we are still here. I have gone to shows on every tour, in different states, the las vegas shows and so on and many times, statements weremade that it was close or wrapping up. I am not pissed or saying anyone intentionally lied, but hey, if you are saying that stuff - how about giving those fans the respect to acknowledge that while it did not happen, they were not being intentionally mislead? I cannot tell you how many times, especially during the last tour, that I heard people starting to say they do not think it really is ever intended to be released... that it is all some sort of ruse to simply make money off of the hope of it and to simply make money from the tour.. like everyone is being misled. That is a sad statement, not by negative whiners, but by fans who spent money time and time again, got their hopes up because things were supposed to be 98% complete 10 years ago and so on. You cannot blame them.. it is just a bad sign and something that happens when people are completely shut out for years at a time.

The whole thing has been handled terribly, but that being said, the band rocks, Axl rocks and even though I have been let down (from getting my hopes up time after time) I will be beating all of you bastards away so I can get the first copy.

i never insulted him.  i insulted his comment.. and it was a gross assumption.

Anyone spending a lot of time "waiting" for this album needs to rethink how they spend their time.  My interest in GNR has certainly waned over the last 2-3 years, but that not to say I won't crap myself when I'm holding CD in my hands.  At this point though, if it comes out, it comes out.  if not, life goes on (so long as you have other things in your life worth getting outta bed for).

I would say telling someone to "how about you shut the fuck up" in reponse to them expressing their opinion is considered an insult.  Here is a dictionary explanation of an insult that I surfed off the web:

To treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness. See Synonyms at offend.
- To affront or demean:
- To behave arrogantly.
- To give offense; offend: a speech that was intended to insult.
- An offensive action or remark.

I would say what you said satisfies a number of those definitions.

OK...question (not necessarily to Jonx...just in general):

When the tentative date of March 2007 was put out there and passed, people said "they won't release it in the summer...that's the worst time for record sales."  And now I'm hearing the same about winter (and, confusingly, that summer 2008 would be fine  ???). 

Now, I'm no math major, but doesn't that eliminate half the year?  When IS the good time to release an album?  And if summer and winter are such poor release times, why are albums released at all during those periods? 

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, but every time there's a bit of decent news (such as the label having the album) someone mentions that it's a terrible time to release it.     

I know literally nothing about the music industry (except that it sucks).  Can someone enlighten me as to the one day in 365 when releasing an album isn't a bad move?


There's an emoticon for that! ( :no: <---SEE!)  You don't have to do it in the real world.

April 7th.

as apposed to April 1st?


Any time in 2008 would be a great time to have cd,

Personally I Would release it the day The olympics starts in china,

that way Guns N Roses site could just hotlink the countdown timer thats on yahoo for the chinese games and paste it on gnr.com and say its for chinese democracy....

I wonder how the olympic officials would feel about that  :hihi:

no, April 1st is one of the WORST days as everyone things its "just a joke"

April 7th is like, the single most amazing day for music, in like, the world.