Here Today... Gone To Hell!

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1 hour, 42 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Democratic-led House of Representatives voted on Thursday to outlaw harsh interrogation methods, such as simulated drowning, that the CIA has used against suspected terrorists.

On a 222-199 vote, the House approved a measure to require intelligence agents to comply with the Army Field Manual, which meets the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of war prisoners and prohibits torture.

The measure passed amid a congressional probe into the recent disclosure that the CIA destroyed videotapes of al Qaeda suspects undergoing waterboarding, a simulated drowning.

Many countries, U.S. lawmakers and human rights groups have accused the United States of torturing terror suspects since the September 11 attacks.

President George W. Bush says the United States does not torture but the administration will not disclose what interrogation methods are used.

Wait...did they prohibit the CIA from doing it...or did they prohibit it completely.  Because if it's the former, I'm sure Cheney would love to get in on that.

The Senate needs to defeat this bill. Waterboaing is illegal under the laws of this country. If it passes, the current administration, in theory, can not be held responsible for their criminal acts.

I'll see what I can find on it.

A relavent section of a paper by Joanne Mariner
penned 16 Aug.2006


Circumventing Hamdan

A few years and thousands of detainees later, there is abundant evidence that prosecutions are warranted. But the War Crimes Act lies unused. Only a single civilian has been charged for detainee abuses (soldiers are generally prosecuted for such abuses under the Uniform Code of Military Justice), and in that case, prosecutors opted to rely on a different set of charges.

It is only with the Supreme Court's recent Hamdan decision that the threat of prosecution under the War Crimes Act became somewhat more real. Although it is still unlikely that any prosecutor, now or in the future, would have the political will necessary to bring even the most-well-founded war crimes charges against U.S. officials, such cases are theoretically possible.

The Hamdan Court, in direct contradiction to the President's January 2002 declaration, found that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions covered detained terrorist suspects. And as Justice Anthony Kennedy stressed in his concurrence, violations of Common Article 3 are punishable as war crimes under the War Crimes Act.

So the legal foundation for criminal prosecutions is now in place. And what is the Bush Administration's response? Rather than take steps not to violate the law, the Administration is trying to change it.

The draft bill that the Administration circulated last week would cut out the War Crimes Act's blanket reference to violations of Common Article 3. It would replace that general provision with a list of specifically prohibited acts (including rape, torture, mutilation, etc.).

Importantly, rather than Common Article 3's broad prohibition on torture, and cruel and inhuman treatment, the new provision would cover only torture. (It includes a subsection on "torture, inhuman treatment, or cruel treatment" but the only conduct that the subsection actually criminalizes is torture.)

This change would let civilian officials, including the CIA, off the hook for an array of abusive techniques that fall short of torture. And while some of the worst techniques used against detainees undoubtedly constitute torture, the Administration has pushed such a narrow definition of torture that, were courts or prosecutors to follow the Administration's lead, even blatant abuses like waterboarding might escape criminal sanction.

A Major Step Backwards

If the Bush Administration's proposed legislation were to pass, it would be a major step backwards. Overriding Hamdan's clear statement that the abusive treatment of detainees is a crime, the law would protect perpetrators of serious abuses.

MORE (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/mariner/20060816.html)

     I guess that would make me a criminal for having it done to myself and doing it to others in training of course.  It's more of a mental thing.  In theory, you can't drown someone because the board doesn't allow water to go into the lungs.  The water is poured over a rag for the mental factor.  If there wasn't a rag, then one would hold their breath while the water is being poured.  With the wet rag it makes it so that someone feels like they will inhale water if they take a breath and you can't get the normal easy pull of fresh air.  The continual drip on someones head does the same thing and there is no way someone can die because of dripping water, but it keeps you awake and it's real annoying.
       Whatever, if it is outlawed it's outlawed, but it'll still be in our training.  There are other ways of getting intel and water boarding is out dated now so it really doesn't make no nevermind.  It's just an opinion and there are worse things being done all around the world.  As for the CIA destroying tapes??  What else should a spy agency do?  Keep it for archieves and tutorials?  Their spooks of course they destroy things.

^^I consider the ones who ordered this type of torture to be the criminals, not the ones carrying out orders by a superior.

And I thought they had more important things to do....

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hr110-847

Status:   
   Introduced   Dec 6, 2007
   Passed House [details]   Dec 11, 2007
This resolution has been passed in the House, which is the end of the legislative process for simple resolutions. The resolution now takes effect. [Last Updated: Dec 11, 2007]
Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.

Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;

Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;

Whereas Christians identify themselves as those who believe in the salvation from sin offered to them through the sacrifice of their savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and who, out of gratitude for the gift of salvation, commit themselves to living their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Holy Bible;

Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly to the development of western civilization;

Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its roots in Christianity;

Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas, the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;

Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and

Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas as a time to serve others: Now, therefore be it

      Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

            (1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;

            (2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;

            (3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;

            (4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;

            (5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

            (6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.

It's fact that waterboarding has lead to information that has saved innocent lives.  It served it's purpose afte 9/11 when things were so uncertain regarding our intel on al queda.  It isn't necessary now becuase our intelligence is so so much better.  But it served a good purpose in the past.

If this gets Huckabee to go home, I'm ok with it.

I call bullshit. Show me an independent study from something other than a reich-wing think tank.

"Fact"

omg

this country has officially lost its balls.

wtf do they think that if our guys are cought over there don't they think that they wont be tortured? and once they give up what ever they know they'll kill'em anyway.

NO BALLS :rant:

Yea, let the terrorists set the bar for America.

I can appreciate wanting the country to have balls, but we also need to have convictions.  So much of this war has been about the sacrifice of convictions...for "security" (i.e. the administration's desire to spy on us), for intelligence, etc. 

I guess waterboarding will go away now then... ::)

When has the CIA ever cared about the law.

Would you go to happy hour at a terrorists bar?

Didn't we execute Japanese in WW2 for waterboarding our soldiers?

Bush should listen to the advice of John McCain, someone who was actually a POW ( and in the millitary)
Bush should also remember something called THE GENEVA CONVENTION

     Yes but the burning with cigarettes and beatings and other things were also present in those Japanese Officers who did prison time.  There are also stories of cannibalism but hey that's survival right?
     I personally believe that High Board Diving and Sychronized Diving should be out lawed too.  Look what it did to Greg Louganis and to the olympic viewing audience.   :drool:

I'd let 'em pick up my bar tab, but thats it.

How's about pushing your stool in?

I'd save that pickup line for the Brokeback sequel...

Freshen up your Pearl Necklace Madame?

nice to see you have the terrorists back Utah.....I got another idea how about we hand over all of our weapons too... : ok:

Let's see here Cox and Taint? HMM  If hit Ouch!  J/K

It's fact that when they captured the mastermind behind 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, confessed like a baby after 2.5 minutes of waterboarding.? He confessed to 911 and then gave valuable info on other terrorist plots.? It's not a conspiracy guys.? The use of waterboarding worked in the past.? I don't think we need it anymore, but it has been employed affectively.? Just do a google search with the terms Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and waterboarding and you'll find tons of article on it.

I just reported your IP to the CIA as a suspected terrorist. You should have nothing to worry about.