Here Today... Gone To Hell!

My friends,

Regardless of your politic opinions and regardless of your religious opinions, in America today, there is a terrible truth.? When I visited Europe in 2001, I stayed in France, Germany, and Switzerland.? In fact, at the time, most of the people I visited, many of whom were close friends, they were all pretty much anti-George Bush.? This is prior to 9/11.

Even though I found that we agreed on most, if not all social issues (I am extremely conservative), they still were anti-Bush.? This, I found interesting.

Since then, and even before then, I've noticed a direct smear campaign against anyone who would challenge the status quo.? In fact, this may surprise many Europeans, but if you openly support George W. Bush in America, or choose to actually listen to the science which contradicts many popular claims, you are treated as an idiot, or worse.

The argument here is not about who is right, or who is wrong, but it's about what is allowed, and if freedom of speech can include those of us who are not among the popular or the general consensus.? What this trailer for this movie presents is a reality in America today.

Those liberals (or otherwise) who disagree, I urge you to respond to this, and argue why you think the premise of this movie is incorrect.? In the meantime, I hope everyone will watch the trailer for this movie.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

It's called the bandwagon, it seems you're not cool if you don't automatically hate Bush.

Although I take no participation in either being for or against any candidates/office holders. Too much drama.

"Smear Campaign"? Don't you think that's a bit dramatic? What personal examples can you provide of "smear campaigns"?

Well, personally, my dad has been attacked (directly, openly, EXPLICITLY) by the largest campus in the US for being Christian.? Nothing more than that.? In the past few years, he has found a way to work with the campus, but they have provided incorrect and false information to the campus newspaper in order to detract from his work.  The board has no issue with directly stating they were opposed to him for being Christian.

I realize many of you many question whether there was more than just his being Christian at play here, and I assure you there was.    I also assure you, by their direct statements, they told my dad without question that they were opposed to any sort of Christian idea or thought on the campus.


In fact, if you were to go to their education website, until about 8-9 months ago, and search for "christian studies", no results would appear.? Search for "muslim studies", "gay studies", "global warming", anything of the like, and many results would show up.? ?But Christian.. no... that was an evil word, never to be used within the context of education or learning.? Keep in mind this is the largest (though not the most respected) campus in the US.

are you going to tell us which campus it is?

and what work is your dad working on? 

I like how you put global warming in parenthesis, as if its not real or something.  this is going to be a good thread  : ok:

right wing Christian studies where they want to teach intelligent design and not evolution or any of that bullshit should not be on a normal college campus - its has nothing to do with science, just dumbing down society. 

If you want to study Christian studies take your ass to a Christian school.

First, Bush IS the status quo...so talking bad about him is, thus, challenging the status quo. 

Second, is this anything like the smear campaign against those who opposed the war back in 2003?  : ok:

Anyway, it's difficult to put any validity behind this, because of all the vague language.  What school?  Elementary, middle, high, university?  Are you honestly telling me that there's a major university that doesn't offer a single religion class on Christianity?  I find that very hard to believe.  It may not be called "Christian studies," but still...


I watched the trailer...not sure what it has to do with Bush, but I'll comment anyway.

There are some things that science can prove beyond any reasonable doubt.  There are other things that science has not yet proven, and possibly some things it cannot prove.  There is no scientific leap that can be made, however, between life and the existence of a higher power.  If someone wants to argue that evolution did not occur or is a highly improbable process is perfectly fine.  Science does encourage questioning.  If the results indicate that evolution is unlikely, I have no problem with a scientist indicating that there may be an alternative explanation.  But nowhere at all is it plausible to make the leap from "evolution is unlikely" to "God is the best explanation." 

The true fact of the matter is that some are overly obsessed with the teaching of religion in schools, or in substituting religious doctrine for actual evidence.  There are a great many who cannot abide the fact that science has uncovered evidence that runs contrary to what they've believed all their lives.  Some of us, myself included, have no difficulty reconciling science and faith.  Others do.  Their problems in doing so, however, do not make things any less true.  If a religious text tells us that the sky is blue because it's actually the iris of God's great blue eye, watching us, and it's red at sun set because God is tired and his eyes are bloodshot, that doesn't make the fact of light absorption and reflection any less true.  Similarly, some have argued against evidence about the age of the Earth, because science cannot be reconciled with a strict reading of religious texts.  At some point it just gets silly.  If people want to live in ignorance of scientific truth, I have no problem with that...like the movie says, it's a free country.  But preaching against science in the classroom is ignorant and counterproductive.  If you cannot reconcile your religious beliefs with settled science, then do not become a teacher of science. 

Who is your Dad and what was said?

You saved me some writing.

I'm interested in the reply.

Are sure he wasn't trying to get that religious bullshit known as ID into the curriculum. Ive dealt with religious idealogues, and I know the lies, half truths, subterfuge they try to employ ... not saying your dad was, but ...

I've seen the trailer for movie and I'm aware of the tripe that it spews. It should go over quite well to those who score poorly on their ACTs, conspiracy theorists, and ignorant fools. Every single time evolution is mentioned, they lie in their pathetic way in an attempt to further their own agenda. ?Pure propaganda by the religious right ... nothing more.

If you want to read a good review of the clip, see PZ Meyers review HERE (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/11/expelled_coming_up_fast.php)

Politics dressed up as religion dressed up as science.

Why do fundamentalist xians in the USA whine like little babies when they can't have their own way with everything. They have political power, a vast population majority (of xians), not to mention a supreme being offering eternal bliss on their side yet they act like they're oppressed first century slaves about to be thrown to the lions.

Intelligent design is not science by the very definition of science whether it's true or not. There's no "two sides of the debate/alternative point of view" here - it should be mocked ridiculed and ostracized from the scientific community because it's not worthy of anything else. Take it to church where it belongs.

"It's interesting that Stein is very open about the religious underpinnings of Intelligent Design creationism, something the Discovery Institute would rather hide, while so grossly misrepresenting evolutionary theory?but then, that's what it is all about, making an emotional appeal to the religious while burying the intellectual power of evolution beneath a caricature."

That was the very first thing that struck me in that movie clip. The amazingly dumb downed (and that's being generous) version of evolution, paired with an "attack on Christianity." As intelligent as Stein is, I was thoroughly let down by the opening act. I was afriad I might see Mike Seaver with a banana at any minute afterwards.

Nailed it.

Who ever thought working the "Oppressed white Christian in America" could be so absurd yet so powerful? It works like a charm, and that's why they do it. Hannity does it, OR does it, Coulter does it. It must be true if they say so huh? Liberal professors who brain wash our kids in college, liberal drive by media who lie to us all...all while we (America mind you) voted republican. Who is the conspiracy nut again?

Perhaps they scoff at religion, because it ain't science, not because they despise Christianity.

I'm a big fan of bathing in one's ignorant bliss, and following the status quo. Less work for me, and it makes sure I'm more right then at least 49.9% of people.

What are we talking about again? :drool:

Without addressing every single point here (I will not speak further about  my dad's position for his own sake, I am nothing but an embaressment to him), but if you honestly think that the "white Christian majority" is just that, you are are mistaken.

I understand that Bush won the last two elections, but it's rare, and was rare, for me every to go anywhere and find support for him.  If this majority exists in any sort of organized sense, it's entirely a secret, and they've chosen not to include me.

My own experiences, with people of various degrees of intellect, is that there exists an extreme bias against Christianity and anything that purports to argue with the current dogma of today; namely, that being darwinism.

Darwinisn and aethism have brought about some of the most horrible massacres mankind has ever known.  You can bring up the salem witch trials, you can bring up various incidents of death, but communism?  Nazism?  PURE 100% beliefs totally based on darwinism.  Read Karl Marx.  It is a belief in death, and cynicism, and no hope for the future.  The irony of poltiics in America today was the extreme-left killed "reasonable" liberalism (yes, Kennedy was murdered for not being left-wing enough, by an insane radical left-winger), and since then, it has only been darkness and cynicism in America by the left wing.  America should not be looked upon favorably, and all our faults should be the end, the damnation of us.

I reject that, and will fight and always believe in a brighter future for America, and the entire world.   Nihilism has no place in a world that hopes for life.

The distinction I personally find is that of a question of honor versus life.  If you look at many of the societies which are typically looked down upon, regardless of polical beliefs, or religious beliefs, by "western culture," you will find that they place honor over life.  In America, and many European countries, we place life over honor.  This is a key difiference to me.

I honestly believe most liberals in America today agree with me on so many isssues, but the fact of the matter is, the liberal media consistently, without conscience, portrays things as otherwise, and so the pain continues.

Umm...white people are about 3/4 of the population.  Same with Christians.  So, if every single non-white person is Christian, that means that 50% of the country is still white Christian.

Of course, not everyone makes their religious beliefs the basis of their vote...


My guess is that this is because he's been a horrible President.  Haven't all of our Presidents been Christian, of one denomination or another?  If so, then the President with the highest approval ratings ever would, by your measure, represent overwhelming support for Christianity. 


How can 3/4 of the country be biased against their own religions?  The vast majority of people have no such bias.  They may have strong opinions against an erosion of the establishment clause, but that's hardly the same thing.


I'm not sure you can attribute evil to an idea, rather than the people who cause it.  But if so, then Christianity is certainly just as guilty as anything else (the Crusades and manifest destiny ring a bell).  But the truth is that people have killed each other for more reasons than I care to count.


Are you equating a belief in science and/or atheism with nihilism?  Because they're not really the same thing.  Just watch "The Big Lebowski."  :hihi:


Maybe this relates to another facet of the thread, but you just made a big leap...care to elaborate on how this ties in with the primary issue of anti-Christianity?


The "liberal media" also portrays a lot of things that actually happen...like Bush preventing federal funding for stem cell research or any other issue where religion affects public policy.

what does evolution have to do with nazis or communism? 

nothing.

its a pathetic attempt by science hating, bible thumping d-bags to excuse how their own religion was manipulated and twisted to justify the deaths of thousands.

when species were going extinct or evolving such things as rationale thought hadn't even been created, let alone things like religion.

 I am familiar with the half truths, mistruths, and outright lies that you creationists use in a pathetic attemp to bolster your dogma. It is religion that causes the conflicts of the world ... always has been, always will be. The sooner mankind rids itself of the archaic concept of believing in myths, the better off we will all be.


I think you are confusing communism with dictatorial authoritarianism.


Hitler was a religious man ... more christo-fascist lies.

From Mien Kamfp:
The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. [original italics]

For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other.

[...]

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.[origonal italics]


I haven't read a lot of Marx, have you? However, I do have a fine leather bound, and guilded copy of "The Paris Commune" in my library, and no where does he mention Darwin that I am aware of.

That's the only part of your post which makes sense.

Totalitarianism is really the problem in my opinion, and religion remains just about the best tool for enforcement with its eternal rewards and punishments that no one can ever disprove. Nazism and Stalinism were like religions without supernatural gods - Hitler was opposed by western democracies born of the Enlightenment, not by religion and certainly not by the Vatican for example.

I agree with you, just ranting :)

Well, this putrid piece of crap masquerading as a documentary is finally hitting the theaters. To counter the lies of Stein and the producers, the National Center For Science Education has created a site that debunks the nonsense of these fools.

Pass it along.

Expelled Exposed (http://www.expelledexposed.com/)

First review on the list:

Intelligent Design Goes to the Movies

According to Of Pandas and People, a textbook outlining the essentials of "intelligent design" as an alternative to evolutionary biology:

    "Intelligent design means that various forms of life began abruptly through an intelligent agency with their distinctive features already intact: Fish with fins and scales; birds with feathers, beaks and wings; etc. Some scientists have arrived at this view since fossil forms first appeared in the record with their distinctive features intact and apparently fully functional rather than gradual development."

But you'll stay awake through the one-hour-and-forty-five-minute film "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - if you can manage it -- without ever hearing this or any other definition of intelligent design. This seems a curious omission in a movie seeking to poke holes in evolutionary theory and by doing so establish some scientific credentials for ID.

"Expelled" stars Ben Stein. It was produced by Premise Media. The film will be released to general audiences in April. ColoradoConfidential was invited to a preliminary screening of "Expelled" - probably by mistake - that was held last week in a meeting room at the Archdiocese of Denver. They were kind enough to invite us, so I feel guilty about hating the thing so much.

Ben Stein is one of those people whom I recognize, but I'm not sure why. He seems to be mostly famous for being famous. His online bio says that he was a speechwriter for Richard Nixon. The bio adds, "He did NOT write the line, `I am not a crook.'" This is a shame because as far as I can tell that's the only memorable thing Richard Nixon ever said. Stein played the boring teacher in the film "Ferris Bueller's Day Off." His style is the definition of "deadpan." Stein is apparently aiming for a religious right niche similar to the one held by Michael Moore on the left. Judging from this effort, he has a ways to go.

You won't hear a coherent definition of evolution in the "Expelled," either, even though it bashes this scientific theory incessantly. So we'll offer this one as a public service:

    Evolution is descent with modification. Random changes in the genetic makeup of an organism result in changes in the phenotype. The organism interacts with its environment. If the changes to the phenotype give it an advantage over others - the vast majority of genetic changes are deleterious -- it leaves more offspring, who are also endowed with this advantageous genetic makeup for dealing with their environment. This latter is known as "natural selection." This simple but powerful process leads to new species through separation of organisms in time and place.

The above is the ten cent course in evolution, but it's more than you'll get from "Expelled." In fact I've even already told you more about both intelligent design and evolutionary theory than you'll get from "Expelled."

I can hear you saying, "Okay, so what is it about?" A fair question. But the film is so intellectually garbled it's hard to summarize. "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" is Summa Theologica compared to "Expelled."The film starts off as a stirring defense of academic inquiry, charging that Darwinists are squashing debate by depriving researchers in intelligent design of positions in academia. I suppose I should mention that Charles Darwin (1809-1882) is the founding intellectual giant behind evolutionary theory. Were he alive today, however, I can't guarantee that he would ascribe to my ten cent version of evolutionary theory above. Genes, for instance, had not been discovered as agents of heredity when Darwin did his work.

"Expelled" trots out several martyrs to the Darwinist inquisition. The poster boy is Richard Sternberg, whom the movie says was ousted from his position at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, and from his editorship of the Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington when he published in that publication a peer-reviewed article of scientific evidence that supports intelligent design. There is some dramatic if unfocused footage of Ben Stein being denied admission to the upper floors of the Smithsonian by a security guard when he tries to grill muckety-mucks at the museum about these injustices.

This repression of scientific thought, we can all agree, is horrible if true. But it isn't true.

This is a dispute among academics. Faults on both sides, I'm sure. Perhaps because there is so little at stake in these fights, they are among the most vicious known to political man. A lot of cyber-ink was spilled over the Steinberg tussle long before Ben Stein got around to it. You can read Sternberg's version of his persecution here and  a non-ID rebuttal here. It's even made Wikipedia, which has got to be the high water mark for a bureaucratic pissing match.

The allegations made in "Expelled" are wrong. Sternberg never worked for the Smithsonian, so the Smithsonian couldn't threaten his job there. He was a visiting scholar with research privileges, assigned an office. He still has both the office and the research privileges. He wasn't deprived of his editorship. His term as editor had expired so he was stepping down anyway in favor of another editor when the controversial ID article was published.

In short, contrary to the assertions in "Expelled," Sternberg suffered no harm whatever from the dustup. Which is not to say that he wasn't criticized. He was. Harshly, rudely and sometimes childishly by fellow scientists. But rough and tumble argument is part of the world of science, whether you're studying intelligent design, string theory or evolutionary biology.

There are three or four other cases explored in "Expelled," all of which are presented in black-and-white terms as anti-ID intellectual repression by a Darwinist cabal. Closer examination of the specifics of each reveals pretty ordinary academic backbiting. There isn't space enough on the internet to go into them here. I'll leave it as an independent exercise for the morbidly curious.

After a half hour or so, "Expelled" wanders off to blame the theory of evolution for Communism, the Berlin Wall, Fascism, the Holocaust, atheism and Planned Parenthood. One of the few funny parts of the film, though, is Stein's interview with British philosopher of science Richard Dawkins. Dawkins' best-selling book The God Delusion is a clarion call for atheism, making him a bete-noire of the religious right. Ben Stein, marshalling the intellectual resources of Ferris Bueller's boring teacher, gets the better of him. Dawkins comes out of it looking pretty silly.

There are so many topics picked up, misrepresented and abandoned unresolved by "Expelled" that it is impossible to deal with them all. But they are typical of the intellectual dishonesty of the creationist-Intelligent Design cabal that wants to have this bankrupt hypothesis taught in the public schools.

For instance, the assumption by IDers is that if neo-Darwinian evolution can be shown to be largely incorrect, ID and creationism triumph. But this isn't so. There are other hypotheses besides design or God or Darwin that could replace it, if they were supported by the evidence. The trouble is that only evolution is so supported. "Expelled" doesn't try to build up a coherent alternative theory. It simply bashes evolution.

The confusion about the definition of ID is apparent throughout the movie. "Expelled" ridicules a hypothesis proposed some years ago called "panspermia." This conjecture - for which, I hasten to add, there is zero direct evidence (just like ID) -- is that life on earth was originated elsewhere in the galaxy and was planted here, either delivered by alien visitors or remotely somehow. "Expelled," and the audience I saw it with, found this idea laugh-out-loud funny. But think about it. This is exactly ID's hypothesis: Some superintelligence planted life on earth. IDers prefer that the "intelligence" be the God of Abraham, but there's nothing in the hypothesis to rule out visitors from another galaxy.

The visually most compelling scenes in "Expelled" were graphic representations of DNA replication. This is truly a remarkable process. I've taken a couple of classes in genetics. It's one of those things that is so cool right down to the details that it is hard not to stand back in awe of whoever thought it up, whether it was God or evolution. The ID take on it is: It's so beautiful and complex, a designer must have been behind it. My take on it is: It's so beautiful and complex, why would any designer bother with it? Something like 80 percent of the genetic material in a strand of DNA is not used for anything. It's junk DNA. Surely an intelligent designer could have come up with something simpler.

But this is a matter of interpretation. Other presentations of "Expelled" display intellectual dishonesty. For instance, most evolutionary biologists do not deal with the origins of life. Evolution acts on organisms that already exist. The question of how life came about is not something that Darwinian evolution deals with. "Expelled" acknowledges this, then proceeds to ignore this acknowledgement and fault evolutionary theory for misinterpreting the origins of life. Sigh.

There are scientists who are trying to learn how life originated on earth. They have ideas, some silly sounding - you can hear about these in "Expelled" - and some profound. But nobody knows. Apparently for the creators of "Expelled," saying that you don't know something is unacceptable.

continued (http://www.coloradoconfidential.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3229)

The earth is only 6,000 years old.


No more needs to be said.  If I was to start my own religion I'd come up with a much more robust story line.

There's a terrible truth in America alright, but this ain't it.

However, the point about the status quo is a good one. Life today is pretty much:

Mandatory conditioning through the school system. (brainwashing)
Get a job. (make someone else rich)
Get a wife, 2.1 kids and a station wagon. (produce the necessary units, consume)
Use half your paycheck to pay off your house for 40 years. (be a slave)
Die.

Don't question, you'll burn in hell.

Exactly. You forgot to mention the "freedom" you have to be a paycheck slave for a corrupt economical system and then pay taxes over it too :peace:

But it must be said, for free thinking people to be free men (which is the minority), the majority need to be the way they are. Production puppets and consuming drones.

There is a clever design and if you notice it, you will see the loophole which enables you to be a free man. Independant from the system itself while living in it and benefitting from it.

No brainwashing, no paycheck slave, no taxes, no nothing. The majority will look down upon you of course, but they are the clueless ones  : ok:

Not everybody does this you know. Plenty of people pay their homes off early, retire early, don't succumb to marketing to keep up with the Jones, enjoy their jobs (even if it's low paying), and even their life.

Imagine that.

I didn't say everybody.

Micheal Shermer Ph.D, a former bible thumper, Creationist, and now columnist for Scientific American, was granted a screening of the film. See his review HERE (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=ben-steins-expelled-review-michael-shermer)

Ok, give me some examples of real life communism.  Just to clear up the confusion.

Lately?

Bush's version of Wall Street.

Read "The Paris Commune". Then, contrast that with the policies of Chairman Mao, and Comrades Stalin and Brezhnev.

Ok, you read the book, I haven't.  What real life examples of communism are there?

I ask you, because communism (or supposed communism) has this habit of not taking any blame for its failings and just blaming the dictator in charge.

For example, some people say the cold war communists were not communists at all.  They were Khrushchevists and Brezhnevists.  How about all the millions killed by the communists in China?  Was that Maoism or communism?  What about Viet Nam, communists or Ho Chi Minhists?  Did communists take over Cuba or was it Castroists?  How about all the people they executed in their death camps?  Were they killed by communists or Cheists?

It gets confusing because all of them were waving the communist flag while they were murdering all these people.

It has been years, but I have Marx' treatise. In fact, I have a fine leather bound and gilded copy. While one may beg confusion, in your instance, I have a feeling it is not the situation portrayed.

Regarding your examples, they are all dictatorial authoritarianism; except perhaps, the early years of Castro, and Minh.

As far as Marx goes, a lot of his criticisms of capitalism at the time were valid.  However, his solutions were downright terrible.

And as far as implementing communism, I really don't see any way to do it but dictatorial authoritarianism, otherwise it just wouldn't last.

While communism sounds alright on paper, it's ultimately never worked out that way.

As long as the dictator and military have steak and mashed potatoes for dinner, everyone else can have scraps or go hungry.

Expelled producers accused of copyright infringement


April 9, 2008
Logan Craft
Chairman
Premise Media Corporation
Suite K
1850 Old Pecos Trail
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505
Re: Copyright infringement in ?Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed?
Dear Mr. Craft:
This letter will constitute notice to you, as Chairman of Premise Media Corporation, of the copyright infringement by your
corporation, and its subsidiary, Rampant Films, of material produced by XVIVO LLC, in which XVIVO holds a copyright.
It has come to our intention that Premise Media and Rampant Films has produced a film entitled ?Expelled: No Intelligence
Allowed,? which is scheduled for commercial release and distribution on April 18, 2008. To our knowledge, this film includes a
segment depicting biological cellular activity that was copied by computer-generated means from a video entitled ?The Inner
Life of a Cell.? XVIVO holds the copyright to all the models, processes, and depictions in this video, and has not authorized
Premise Media or Rampant Films to make any use of this material.
We have obtained promotional material for the ?Expelled? film, presented on a DVD, which clearly shows in the ?cell segment?
the virtually identical depiction of material from the ?Inner Life? video. Among the infringed scenes, we particularly refer to the
segment of the ?Expelled? film purporting to show the ?walking? models of kinesic activities in cellular mechanisms. The
segments depicting these models in your film are clearly based upon, and copied from, material in the ?Inner Life? video.
We have been advised by counsel that this segment in your film constitutes an actionable infringement of XVIVO?s intellectual
property rights, as protected by federal statutes, including Section 106 of the Copyright Act, the Visual Artists Rights Act of
1990, and the Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1998. Each of these statutes provides for judicial enforcement of their
provisions, with substantial civil penalties for their infringement.
We have also obtained legal advice that your copying, in virtually identical form, of material in the ?inner Life? video clearly
meets the legal test of ?substantial similarity? between the copied work and our original work.
This letter will also serve as notice to you that XVIVO intends to vigorously and promptly pursue its legal remedies for your
copyright infringement, unless and until Premise Media, Rampant Films, and their officers, employees, and agents comply with
the following demands:
1) That Premise Media, Rampant Films, and its officers, employees, and agents remove the infringing segment from all
copies of the ?Expelled? film prior to its scheduled commercial release on or before April 18, 2008;
2) That all copies of the ?Inner Life? video in your possession or under your control be returned to XVIVO;
3) That Premise Media notify XVIVO, on or before April 18, 2008, of its compliance with the above demands.
We have been advised, by a telephone conversation with Mellie Bracewell of Premise Media on April 8, 2008, that an e-mail
transmission of this letter to her will be promptly forwarded to you. A hard copy of this letter, on XVIVO stationary, will also be
sent to you today by express delivery.
We are sure that you will want to avoid legal action in this matter, and urge you to promptly notify us of your compliance with
the above demands. You may do so by return e-mail, directed to @ xvivo.net or @ xv ivo.net, followed by a hardcopied
letter indicating your compliance with the above demands.
Sincerely,
David Bolinsky
Partner and Medical Director
XVIVO LLC
Michael Astrachan
Partner and Creative Director
XVIVO LLC
Cc: Peter Irons, Esq.
Attorney at Law
2551 North Valley Road
Greenville CA 95947

Turns out they also stole material from PBS.

http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot.com/2008/04/expelled-erv-finally-gets-angry.html

Oopsie daisy!!!!!

Apparently the intellectually dishonest producers have also infringed the copyrights of John Lennon (http://richarddawkins.net/article,2477,Yoko-Ono-Filmmakers-Caught-in-Expelled-Flap,Ethan-Smith).

Sexpelled

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2478,Sexpelled-No-Intercourse-Allowed,RichardDawkinsnet

^ haha I love the logic.

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2488,Open-Letter-to-a-victim-of-Ben-Steins-lying-propaganda,Richard-Dawkins

Yoko Ono Sues "Expelled" Film Makers

NEW YORK (Reuters) - John Lennon's sons and widow, Yoko Ono, are suing the filmmakers of "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" for using the song "Imagine" in the documentary without permission.

Lennon recorded the song in 1971 and in 2004, Rolling Stone magazine ranked it No. 3 on their list of the 500 Greatest Songs of All Time, according to the lawsuit.

Ono, her son Sean Ono Lennon, and Julian Lennon, John Lennon's son from his first marriage, along with privately held publisher EMI Blackwood Music Inc filed suit in U.S. District Court in Manhattan seeking to bar the filmmakers and their distributors from continuing to use "Imagine" in the movie.

They are also seeking unspecified damages.



More:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUKN2320158220080423

Communism doesnt work....fact...every communist country has failed...and pretty much every socialist country has run into huge problems...

the Only reason Chinas doing alright is because they have instituted abit more of a market system...and the fact that we buy all their shitty cheap stuff..

Wednesday, May 21, 2008
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

A New York Judge ruled to continue an injunction against Premise Media, which effectively prevents Premise, the producers of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, from further distribution. Expelled is a film about intelligent design and creationism starring Ben Stein, and is currently playing at 200 U.S. theaters. Since its April 18 debut it has received criticism from both the scientific community, which considers both pseudoscience, and film critics.

The case Lennon v Premise Media was filed by Yoko Ono, Julian Lennon, Sean Lennon, and EMI Blackwood Music, Inc. against Premise Media, C&S Production, and Rocky Mountain Pictures in United States District Court for the Southern District of New York on April 23, 2008 alleging copyright infringement concerning John Lennon's song "Imagine". Premise is being represented by Anthony Falzone of the Fair Use Project.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Judge_continues_injunction_against_'Expelled'_film

I think everyone with basic understanding of religion-history, psychology and science will have a relaxed relationship to religion.

In the religion we have in Norway, there is a god that posses an magnificent Penis (Fr?y)-
- Psychoanalogically, that god fulfil a sexual desire that in comunities can be hard to live out because of shame/punishment etc.

On the topic of Christianity, thats not a European religion and has nothing at all to do in Europe either :P
Science still can't disprove/prove the existence of a soul/spirit tho.

I haven't seen the movie, but the Pagan religions have quite fun takes on this topic :hihi:
I also have my world-views thats poltically incorrect, but it doesn't matter :peace:

Probably shouldn't go here, but ...

Does a soul/spirit affect the physical world? If it does, then science can prove, or disprove the manifestations of that effect; if thesoul/spirit doesn't, then it is irrelevant.