Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Falcon kept deleting my posts in another thread, so I assume it was because it was off topic so i'll make a new one.

Most of us consider Scott the weak link in VR.. and while I agree they could have gone with a better frontman, they really really should have gone with another drummer. 

I think Matt Sorum, while a techincally skilled drummer, is a very boring drummer and he doesn't have the groove the other guys who play(or played) in GnR have.  GnR is a better band without Matt Sorum.   I think most would agree with this.   What about VR?

thoughts?

It's funny, when ever me and my mates talk about VR we are always opposite to what you just said.
I never really took too much notice of him in GnR (not saying he was bad at all, just didn't draw too much attention), but in VR he has actually really impressed me. Don't know why, but now (on Crontraband in particular) he gets my attention. In my oppinion he is great in, and for VR.

Two words: Illegal I... or is it illegal eye song..  ha

Matt is solid and much better than he was in GNR!!

I find Matt to be mega boring on recordings but pretty decent live.

Because I don't care too much about live VR shows, I'd prefer him to be replaced with someone with more groove :)

So you guys are saying he sucked in GNR but rocks in VR?   I dont know.. I just cant' get into his style. 

I'm saying he did his job in GnR, but rocks in VR.
Like I said, I just didn't really notice him in GnR, but I deffinatly wouldn't say he sucked.
But to me there's been a deffinate step up since VR.

he is not as interesting as adler. ?adler was loose and just cool. ?Matt was more of a studio type guy.

But, his relationship and chemistry with Duff and Slash make him an asset. ?I love Brian Tichey, he is a monster drummer. ?

JB, many share your view. ?IN GNR he blew a lot cause Axl told him a lot how he wanted drums to sound. ?And maybe he was just chessy then, but he has come into his own. ?He is great live!

yea i think the drums are the weakest part of the otherwise superb UYI albums  :(   but to be honest, i see nothing specatular about his drumming on Libertad. 

Duff is still kicking ass, and if Slash would push himself he could do some great stuff, but I think these guys would do better with a different drummer.

Sorum on the first Snakepit album was awesome!!!!

My friend and I were listening to Libertad, his first comment was that the drums were boring and repetitive.

I don't think matt has that much of a groove.

thats my biggest complaint.

I like his druming on both VR albums, but prefer it on Contraband, and I can see what you mean about the groove.
I think the reason he was better on Contraband was because the songs were alot more raw sounding, so his style fit with it. With Libertad the songs sound more polished and just more straight rock n' roll, so his style didn't gel as well as it did on the first album and could have benifited from locking in a groove.

you stole my words big broder! lol, exactly what i was going to say.

Matt in VR is ok, he has some great moments, great medley stuff. Its not "bad". ?And Matt in GNR rocked. Ex: Right next door to hell, locomotive, double talkin jive,november rain, etc.

Why would he be the weak link?

His drumming on both 'Contraband' and 'Libertad' is great. ("She Builds Quick Machines" is a great example)

I've seen Velvet Revolver twice, so I know what he's capable off live nowadays too.

I think VR are fine the way they are... :peace:

I don't think Matt is the weak link in the band, I'd point that title to either Dave and Scott, especially on Libertad.

And as far as contributions go, Matt wrote the riff for Set Me Free, which is one the best VR songs (in my opinion) written. So that alone puts him high up there with Slash & Duff. : ok:

He's hardly the weak link. He's not the best drummer around but he does the job decently. He also contributes riffs and wrote / inspired a few songs. I used to think Dave was the weak link, but he redeemed himself with "Get Out The Door" ;D

I like what Baz said about Brain before the Hammerstein shows.   

Do you ever think the Illusions might have been better albums if Brain or Frank was in the band instead?  :smoking:

yes, but Brain would have had his ass whipped by Slash, who wasn't that keen on too many experiments, so Sorum would have ended up in GNR regardless....Brain's ability would have made them slightly nervous i think.....

Yes. The experimentation on the album had to come from the rest of the music, new guitar styles and structure and the like. Brain probably would have added more to the variety himself.

But then perhaps its because of the limited time Sorum had to work on the album that he couldn't stamp his own style all over it.....through Snakepit and VR he's definitely proven himself a far superior studio drummer than what we saw in GNR.

Live he's a tank aswell, certainly adds to the feel of a VR show.

The Illusions albums would have been better if they had only put the best songs on there. Admit it - it is NOT "all killer, no filler" like AFD is ("Think About You" excluded). I don't think Matt Sorum's drumming had any detrimental effect on those LPs at all. Although his drum solos on the UYI tours were pretty much exactly the same.

If anything, the addition of Dizzy Reed moved GNR away from balls-to-the-wall rock ethic. I think the UYI albums would have been better if they had stuck to their rock roots.

ummmm, keyboards were needed for a lot of the songs.   Dizzy brought a new dimension to the songs and it was a good thing for the band..   

but I do agree.. those drum solos on the UYI tour were horrid.  :(   And I do think a drummer that had some rhythm would have made those albums pretty close to perfect.

My point was that the album didn't really need the keyboard songs! Yes, it brought a new dimension, but not one which I think should have been avoided.

I disagree about Matt, though. I think he does have rhythm, and that he is a very talented musician. However, his drum solos did lack imagination and this could make him seem less "good". Overall, I think that GNR's sound changed in the UYI albums. That is more a combination of Matt's drumming style, keyboards and the simple fact that the songs weren't all that special, certain tracks excluded of course.

no doubt everyone in that band is playing below their potential.   but i see matt as the weakest link.

and another one will see slash as the weakest link, another one will see scott, etc...
it's a clear proof noone in particular is to blame, but everyone is.

and even an albatros can sometimes fly with grace  :hihi:

The Illusions albums are just fine...give it a rest..

Take a listen/look at his work with The Cult both live and on Beyond Good And Evil, plenty of groove there....

"The Witch" ?live at Reading '01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT2Y6h_ZlHU

"Rise" video from BG&E in '01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8dN-5N1yzk

It's all about the material, Matt just never seemed to fit in UYI era GNR or for the material from those records in general. ?

His talents are much better suited for the 5 piece hard rock outfit, letting him "breath" so to speak without having to restrain himself behind layers of keys an synth.

Bottom line...

Hardly the right fit for GNR of that era, couldn't imagine anyone else in VR.

Great points Falcon!!!

Remember who limited Sorum on UYI!  It was Axl that often critiqued his playing and "held him back" out side of the obvious like Locomotive which is fucking awesome!!

I really like Matts drumming in VR - especially on Contraband which really suited the hard hitting style in a live situation.  I also think his backing vocals are spot on.

How did you find this out?

According to Matt himself at the time, Axl only asked him to drum a certain way on one song. November Rain.

You also forget that most of those songs were written with Steven in the band......





/jarmo

I think matt stepped it up on Libertad personally and the first Snakepit album his work was pretty damn good, and this is coming from a man who will poke fun at Borum most chances he can get.
I think the problem with VR is they don't seem to push themselves enough, we all know what Slash is capable of and Scotts lyrics and melodies in STP were damn good.

November Rain is the main song where Sorum Sux!  But I think maybe you are right because I don't remember another song being mentioned.  And you are correct a lot of the songs were adlers.  I think even Civil War (which is the only song with adler on it) doesn't really have that loose feel adler usually has.  So maybe the production also affected Sorum's playing since even Adler sounded somewhat bland.

well, pretty much everything would sound better with Brain on it. :smoking:
but when that's said, I think the UYI's would have sounded about the same no matter what drummer except from Adler would have played on them.
Adler was the original and had his own groove and way to do things. but when Matt came into the band, it was already kinda decided by the band how the drums should sound on the new songs (largely based on Adlers playing on the demos, but when played without Adlers groove, doesn't sound anywhere near as great as it would with him).

Edit: forgot, Matt has really impressed me on the VR albums. he's als great on the Neurotic Outsiders album.

I definitely think Sorum sucked in GNR.? I think he's better in VR because he's playing songs that he helped conceive, so they inherently fit his style better.? But I still think that overall, VR would be much better suited with a more rhythmic drummer instead of a heavy hitter.? I've always said they should've hired Steven Adler instead.



Well Jim Bob, hell may have frozen over, but you and I finally find some common ground.? I've never cared for Sorum's "smash em up" style of drumming either.


No, I think the UYI songs would've been better with their original drummer, Steven, who was (like several people pointed out) the guy who helped them hammer out those songs in writing and rehearsal sessions.? The original guy is always going to be better, because it's always hard for a new guy to come into songs that have already been written and try to force himself to adapt to them.

Thank you, I've been saying this for years.

Matt is one of the most overrated drummers I've ever heard.  So many people praise him for how great he is, but he's an average drummer at best.

Not only that but the guy is a real dick head.  Remember that "making of VR" show on VH1 how much of a dick he was being when they were trying to find a singer?

I've also heard numerous tales of him being rude to fans, like he has this real big "rock star" fuck you attitude. ::)

I don't know if VR would be better without Matt because the drumming isn't a huge part of their songs, but if they found a better drummer maybe it would be.

So one song out of thirty caused you to say Axl "held him back" on the UYI albums?



/jarmo

Before libertad I would've actually agreed with you, but his work on libertad is way better than almost anything I've heard him do before...

That's why his resume' sucks.. ::)


I've met him on numerous occassions and he's always been cool, very accommodating and fan friendly.

First off, I think Matt is a very technically skilled drummer. ?However, this doesn't always make for great listening.

A lot of drummers try to "get out of the way of the song" on record and don't do all they're capable of (fills, etc.). ?Their goal is to support the song and not overtake it. ?Unfortunately, there's not much in the way of great songs in VR for Matt's drumming to support.

I think the UYI drumming is great. ?Remember, the songs were written before he got there and he had a lot to learn and record in a very short amount of time. ?Plus, they're mostly written in straightforward time signatures and don't give him much to show off.

I think his drumming on UYI was pretty good, it fitted the songs, and the band (Axl included) praised his ability to step up both live and on those 50 or so songs he recorded, with many of them being favourites for the avarage GnR fan, like Dont Cry, November Rain, Estranged, KOHD, and so on..  I have an impression from interviews, and stories that he isent the most sympathetic guy (I dont know him) but I dont let that get in the way of my opinion on his drumming. He got headhunted from The Cult to GnR when GnR was the biggest band on earth, and he recorded two albums with a grammy award winning band, and sold millions of records, so he's done something right!

If there?s a weak link in VR it will be Dave Kushner. Not Matt... at all.

How so?

He's probably the guy who brings out the most to the group.

lol are you serious?

Matt has evolved a lot from Contraband to Libertad. I love his skilled drumming... it goes along with the songs.

My opinion: Scott! I cant make myself able to like his work, no matter how hard I try..

Eh, yes?

Have you even listened to the structure of the guitars on 'Contraband' and 'Libertad'?

It's not just Slash, you know - he's probably way more involved than you could ever imagine.

I'd say out of the four( Dave is awesome but you can't compare him to the others)? I would say it is Scott, not Matt.? ?Scott was awesome in STP because he was the frontman among more underrated musicians? and it is probably harder for him to compete with other stars in VR.? It's also different styles and Scott doesn't have the same songwriting skills as Axl, but Scott probably has a better voice.? ?I think it probably gets crowded with all those stars up there so it's almost like they need a less is more approach, with more dominant Scott vocals.? It's almost like there are 4 frontmen up there.

Matt is a solid drummer and I can enjoy watching him play just for the fact that he is a pro and can go out and lay it down every night.? ?

If by structure you mean 'playing farty guitar noises that clash with Slash's playing (especially on Libertad)', then I might agree with you... :hihi:

I like Dave's contributions on Contraband, but on Libertad I turn the balance over so I can just hear Slash, as his playing annoys me.

It's each to their own, I guess - but calling him the "weak" link in Velvet Revolver is bullcrap.

I love his rhythm guitar playing and I think that he brings out a lot to the group as a whole, and I also have to say that Dave Kushner suits Slash very well.

Hell, he even wrote one of the best songs on 'Libertad'.

Haha, scott has a better voice?  Listen to It's So Easy and Mr Brownstone, as covered by VR and then the originals.  Those songs have very different ranges, and if you can tell me scott has a better voice than axl with a straight face after comparing those, then i'll eat my hat. 

As for Matt...i'd say that he's probably not the sole weak link in VR.  I'm not a fan of Matt, I don't think he's got much style or groove, although he's a good drummer.  But Gnr was something else, and he wasn't right for it.  But for VR, he does a fairly good job I feel.  Some of the songs on libertad have a really good feel to them, like Just Sixteen and Get Out The Door. 

shit, i had to read that line a few times, in case you meant to say something else.....did you mean to say something else?

surely you meant to say something else....?

Okay it was some Axl, and it was some of playing someone else's material.  Either way, he wasn't able to be as original as much as he would have liked. I think that is a fair statement. 

Elmir, ha, I had to do the same thing.

Scott in a low tone has a beautiful voice, but when time to rock and scream and hit high notes, not even close.  Axl hands down.  In a ballad with no screaming or high notes (you got no right) you may have an argument.

there is no argument....whatsoever....scott sounds ok on some bits, but c'mon....comparing him to Axl is a bad idea, saying that he has a better voice...?

sure.

I'd say even that is rubbish.  Ok, I only know vr material of his.  But I think Axl's voice on something like Don't Cry (a fairly deep, melodic ballad-esque song) is a lot better than Scott's voice on one of their ballads, like Fall To Pieces or Loving The Alien. 

Scott's voice acoustically, at least back in the day (i saw a pretty decent acoustic TLF recently aswell) was incredible. If you see STP unplugged, or hear the acoustic version of Plush on their Greatest Hits its simply perfect singing, love his voice in those scenarios.

his drumming never did much for me.

he doesnt do much cowbell either (if any?), thats a major violation!

I agree.  Scott acoustic plush is a great voice.

His voice on "Sour Girl" is amazing as well.

Both singers have their strengths, Axl rips the high screech like nobody's business while Scott's lower register is smooth and rich.

It's all subjective anyway..

Amazing how you manage to put all the blame on Axl at first, then you change it to "some Axl".

 ::)




Some of you need to get headphones and listen closely to some GN'R....

Axl''s more than a high voice. That's what makes him stand above many of the other singers who have come around during the last 20 years.



But isn't this about how great Matt Sorum is?





/jarmo

Not a big fan of Matt Sorum


Steven Adler is by far the best drummer GNR has ever had.

THere is absolutely nothing Scott does vocally better than Axl ,Cept maybe sound like Eddie Vedder. :hihi: :hihi:


I love Scott, don't get me wrong, but he has no register that compares to Axl.

Jarmo, I just don't want to beat a dead horse. I compromised and felt I did some give and take and I agree some with you.  But you have to keep bringing it up?  I am pretty damn objective.  I am not even arguing.  I see both sides.  But UYI was not a true reflection on Matt's ability to play and we may never know what Axl said to Matt on his songs like Estranged, NR, Breakdown etc.  We do know for a fact that he was controlling on at least one track for sure.  Its possible maybe others.  We mainly know about that one cause it was a monster hit.  I think maybe the youcould be mine intro was Matt's idea.  Who knows.  I remember him talking about that fill.  But I also remember something saying Adler came up with that.  It was an old song, so I don't know what matt could have changed other than the big intro.

You're just making a big deal out of the fact that Axl asked him to play a certain way on one song.


The You Could Be Mine intro was Duff's idea by the way.



/jarmo

Sure he is... but (for me) his high end is his strength and the characteristic that makes him distinctive. ?


It's started out alleging Matt as the "weak link" ( ::)) in VR then disentigrated into the usual tit for tat silliness.

That is fair. 

Duff wrote the drum fill?  Its a direct rip off from Sorum's favorite drummer John Bohnam and was used in the song Moby Dick.  You sure the drumming is Duff's influence?  If so, props to Duff!!!!

That's what Matt himself said in an interview on MTV Europe in 1993.....



/jarmo

Wow!!!  That is awesome!  Duff is a badass.

Jarmo, what did the 1987 version of You Could Be Mine sound like compared to the UYI version?  Just curious.

lol thanks for the enlightment  : ok:

I don't think I have heard a 1987 version...


/jarmo

While I respected the fact that Matt is a good technical drummer. But in every band he has been involved with... The Cult, Guns and VR he always seemed like the weak link to me.

When I said Scott has a better voice, it was an opinion ?but I think Scott is, overall, more melodic. ? Yes Axl can hit the high notes, but Scott definatly has his own style too. ? I just think it hasn't been used as effectively in VR as in STP. ?I'm not talking about the GNR covers they do, I'm talking about VR songs. ?It seems that his vocals seem to get burried, among everyone else in the band. ? My favorite stuff is like the chorus in Sucker Train Blues, cuz that is essential Weiland. ? Sometimes it seems as if he trys to conform to their style and vice versa instead of meshing as a group. ?I think songwriting wise Scott can't touch Axl cuz the songs on Libertad are nowhere near as complex as UYI. ? ?I just feel like Scott's voice isn't showcased enough in VR the way it was in STP. ? It probably has to do with there being 4 members in the band instead of 3.

That has to be the one song that maybe nobody has ever heard in its original Appetite form except the members and mike clink and the managers.  I would love to hear that!

yes, me too. but, the song was not finished when they recorded appetite. so, im curious if there are any rough demos of an unfinished product. i havent heard it and i pretty much have everything out there and i dont think this has surfaced. but if someone has it, please let me know..

Jarmo, see what you can do with your connections.  Thanks

SG

VR melodically, musically speaking, seems to lend itself towards Scott's STP style more-so than GNR.

Maybe Scott had more chemestry with the other STP guys and Slash and Duff had more chemistry with Axl. As for Sorum, I guess you can make a case for one of the six (at least) drummers that have played for the band.

You're welcome.

I still haven't gotten the explanation on why Dave Kushner would be the "weak" link, though...

Oh... sure. Here it is:
-he?s a completely unknown in a band of rock superstars
-he has no carisma whatsoever (we can see that on the few interviews he gives)
-his playing is almost the same in every song, the chords picked dont varie much from song to song...

Overall... he seems just like a nice guy but standing next to the others in the band it seems he just doesnt fit. They should have picked a more famous and more technically skilled rhytm guitar player.

From this, I ain?t saying I don?t like the guy or the band as it is right now... but again, if there?s even a weak link in VR Dave will be it.... not Matt Sorum... for sure.? : ok:

Its rythym guitar......   Rythym doesn't require as much skill as more feel.  If he had too much skill he would be playing lead.  Ha!  And I think he is really more of a lead player playing rythym.  Maybe they need a true rythym player more like keith richards.

Yeah... that?s what I was trying to say.  ;)

I disagree with all your points.  1) the band chose him so he is obviously capable.  Just because he isn't a star doesn't mean he isn't good for the band.  I think he keeps them grounded.  2) Dave seems to have a lot of charisma from the interviews I've heard, he's always cracking jokes.  Plus on stage he is probably the wildest  3)  He is a rhythm guitar player.  His job is to stay in the backround.  Izzy was basically the same way.  He probably got the least attention.  I see similarities between Izzy and Dave.  Dave also writes songs especially "Get Out The Door"  which is probably one of the strongest songs on Libertad. 

Well I?m keeping what I said but I respect your opinion  : ok:.

imo dave is who stops VR from sounding dated

What resume?

He played on the Illusion albums, but was he really that much of an improvement over Adler?  If Adler wasn't so fucked up the albums would have sounded pretty much identical, maybe a little more punk rockish...

He played on one album with The Cult, Slash's first solo album and one of Duff's and both of Velvet Revolvers.  Which one of those albums was great?  Most consider the one Cult album he played on to be one of their worst.  Many consider the VR albums to be not nearly as good as they should be. 

Besides Velvet Revolver the guy has only been a hired gun (no pun intended) and has never found a home of his own.

The guy hasn't done anything great in his career that someone else couldn't have done, and honestly if Gn'R didn't take him in, who knows if he'd still be in music today.

... I don't mean to be so hard on Matt Sorum, truth is he's a good, talented drummer.  But people walk around and talk like he's the king of the hill among drummers, and I haven't heard it.

Besides the Use Your Illusion albums I haven't heard one album with him on it that I'd consider above average, and almost all of the drums were written before he came into the picture on UYI.  All he had to do was learn them and play them, which is what he did.

I tend to think "people walk around" (especially those fans who are this era of GNR focused) thinking he's "just average" when the quality of people he's worked with and continues to work with don't hold that same opinion.

I think people walk around thinking about what to make for dinner, or TV shows or some gossip crap. I suspect that almost everyone can go WEEKS without thinking about Matt Sorum!

Steven's drumming on Appetite' alone is superior to any offering I've heard from Matt Sorum.

I don't think he's just average at all, but he doesn't have that sense of groove and looseness and fluidity that Steven Adler has and that Brain has.  For that reason, I think he wasn't the best drummer for GN'R.  That groove is what allowed you to really lock into the songs on Appetite.

Ali

I think Matt and Duff really compliment eachother's playing and really lock in with eachother.? ?I don't get what ppl say when he has no groove.? ?Have you heard these two play together?? IMO they both make eachother sound better.? Wasn't this also the main thing for why he was chosen for Illusions?? They needed someone who could fit in with the band, not just image wise, but also could fit the sound.? ?I know he is a different style than Steven tho and some ppl don't like that cuz Matt plays TIGHT and Steven plays LOOSE.

Loose is what suits Gnr.  That's why Matt wasn't a good replacement, Steve was loose and groovy, Matt is tight and hard.  But everyone else was hard, and Steve bought some much needed swing to the proceedings.  Very few fully appreciate his work, but listen to any AFD songs played with Matt (even with Izzy still in the band) and they don't sound anything like as good. 

Funnily enough though, I know there's a lot of other change, but Brain/Frank both sound a lot better than Matt did. 

 :hihi:

Oh don't lie to us.  You know you can't go WEEKS without thinking about Matt.   :love:

I'm not a massive Dizzy fan.  I do agree to some amount with what you say about them tho ... I like the keys on the tracks.

And I don't think anyone else was needed ... Matt's drumming, in my opinion, is perfect on those albums.  Punchy, solid...

I think it's easy to critisize now ... but I actually think there isn't a single track on UYI I or II that I ever skip now.  Even My World comes on and I'm rockin' to it.  In my eyes, they're the best albums.  Mind you ... I'm a massive GnR fan ... I absolutely love every album they put out, without exception.  Not one track is filler to me.

A bit of GNR died when Steven left.  I have a soft spot for Steven I guess, but I much prefer the version of GNR that includes Steven.  His whole persona just worked so well with GNR.  Don't know if I'll ever really respect or totally accept Matt's work in GNR.  He was just there.  Every time I see Matt in live footage from GNR I miss Steven.
VR is a different story I suppose because I'm fine with Matt's work in VR.

You're right.  A bit of the AFD magic of GN'R did die when Steven was let go.  His sense of groove was extremely important to the feel of the AFD GN'R songs.  It was a new chapter in GN'R's story the moment Steven left and was replaced by Matt.

Ali

I fucking LOVE the Illusions albums... the drumming is fucking SPOT on ... Nothing ... NOTHING wrong with Matt's drumming back then or now.  He's one of the most talented hard rock drummers this world has seen.

I don't understand the Matt hate.  I like him.  He's cool.

Maybe you should give 'Appetite or Lies another listen.

In my opinion, Matt doesn't hold a candle to Steven.


I find nearly all of his drumming on the Use Your Illusion albums to be rather tedious, and uninspiring.


No he's not.

Compared to Neil Peart, Danny Carey, Carter Beauford, Jimmy Chamberlin, Travis Barker, Taylor Hawkins, or Danny Lohner, he's really nothing special.?

Matt's technically a lot better then Steven but I like Steven's drumming way more.. nice cool sound, great groove and I also like his drumarrangements... they fit the songs and he doesn't always plays the same old beat unlike Matt. I find Matt's drumming on UYI and after also uninspiring.

I love all of GnR's albums.  If you don't ... I'm sorry for you.

You find all of it tedious and boring?  Grow up.  Either that or never listen to those albums again ... if you really truly believe that, then you must have a massive problem even putting one song on, since Matt's drumming is all over every song ... and is a pretty prominent and major part.

You're talking shit.

As do I..


Don't feel sorry for me..

I'm not the self-proclaimed "One man Matt Sorum fan club.." :hihi:


Yes.


Yawn.


Ok, Stalin ::)


Nope, not at all :D

Matt's dreary drumming aside, I love every aspect of every song on the Use Your Illusion albums.


Oh yeah, his drumming is a real integral part of "You Ain't the First," and "My World.." ::)


No, your reply was shit : ok:

I agree Stoned.  Both Illusion albums are among my top albums of all time..  the drums are the weakest part of those albums, otherwise they are solid.   I'm certainly not going to stop listening to them just because I dont like Matt.

?
Thanks Jim Bob, glad I'm not the only one :beer:


 :hihi:

I for one thing a lot of songs could have been a lot better with Steven on.  The drumming on Estranged for instance is very by the books and dull.  Double Talkin' Jive could also have been a killer if Steven (or another drummer of his groove) was manning the sticks.  14 Years and Dust N' Bones also lacked that killer beat that a song like Nightrain or Mr Brownstone has.

That said, a couple of the songs had some fairly decent drums.  I thought Coma, Pretty Tied Up and Locomotive all had some fairly decent drumming.  But overall, he could have done a much better job. 

If Matt had that wicked perm he had during th UYI tour he'd be the strongest link.......errr that made him look like a creepy pedophile. VR needs a new singer and a new drummer and maybe Izzy can write for them......that'd be sweet.

So much ignorance and false 'knowledge' and pointless critisism thrown at Sorum.

And Stoned ... you mis quoted me on purpose, you cheap fuck :)

I think everyone's just astounded you think old lead feet is a good drummer.

Astounded that Axl allowed such a SHITTY drummer in his band?

Dude ... Matt Sorum is a fucking good drummer.  And if he was still in GnR, and Axl Rose praised him, every fucker here would be saying he's the greatest drummer in the world.

That, I'm sure, is pretty certain.

Well you would be pretty damn wrong then , sir.


Matt is an alright drummer too me . he isn't complete shit but he isn't that great either.

Uh, no I didn't Jackson.

Think before you post : ok:

Slash mostly got Matt so they could be party buddies.

But you would know that since you are a Slash fan and have read the book, right?

Yes you did ... Jackson.

You took a line I said about UYI .... you took the bit about the album out, and then replied as if I was talking about Matt Sorum.

Go read before you think ;)

You think he'd have been in the band for that many years if Axl didn't think he was any good?  What the hell has Slash got to do with what I said?  Slash was the one who suggested they get Matt down and try him out ...

But they all had to agree ... and you know what Axl's like ... if he doesn't want someone involved, everyone knows about it.

the thing with matt is, he plays like a drum machine. he plays the SAME fill EVERY time in the SAME place. on the illusions and VR stuff.

adler may be a fuckup, but he played with groove. listen to the brownstone beat, or any of the beats on appetite.

 ???

Well, he was the basis for your post, now wasn't he?..

But that line wasn't what you answered.  So yes, you misquoted me :)  Or rather ... edited my quote to suit your answer :)

..You're boring.

No, you're both boring and if you keep bickering I'm sure you won't find yourselves here.

I wouldn't say Sorum is the weak link. It's not like they would be any more successful with anyone else back there. I always thought his playing on the illusions was very plain and average, Steven in a better state probably would have done a much better job. However I actually like his playing on the VR stuff and I thinks he sounds great on the Neurotic Outsiders album.

It's all a matter of personal opinion really!

matt's drumming on estranged is amazingly tight, loose drumming on that song would be a nightmare.

adler fit AFD sorum fit the illusions.