Here Today... Gone To Hell!

This could be an interesting thread, although I hope it doesn't degenerate into flame wars as I have seen these kinds of threads do on other boards.

So what do yo reckon?

Myself well I don't think so. I'm just one of those minded people who need some sort of verification before I believe the words in an old book of "events" written by a bunch of people who were going by what they heard, not what they saw for themselves.

I have a close mate who is very religious, he is studying to be a christian pastor. I laugh every time he tells me how all the stories in the old testament are fact, like Noah getting 2 of every species in the world on that ark  :rofl:, or Jonah living in the belly of that whale.

So what do y'all reckon?

fake

Well, this is just me, but I prefer real Gods to fake Gods.

I believe there is some sort of godly force out there, but a man with a beard who gives a shit about who and when humans have sex? No. That is ludicrous.

The existence of God/s can't be proven. 
If you believe it/they exist/s, it/they exist/s. 
If you don't, it/they don't/doesn't.

Personally, I don't believe any myths of creation beyond what my imagination envisions.  I think the world would be a much nicer place if everybody accepted the fact nobody is right or wrong when it comes to God/Gods.  Just my 2 cents.   :(

In the Bullshit Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.
     Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
     But He loves you.
     He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!
     -- George Carlin Politically Incorrect, May 29, 1997


While I believe everything that he said, somehow I still believe in God. Go figure.

I believe there is a higher being, i just do not believe it is man fleshed or man made or man looking, i don't call it and i think it is both masculine and feminine.

I also believe in guardian angels and believe also in DNA and psychogenesis, and this alone explains far more than a walking corpse

God exist.

You, my friend, are confusing the concept of 'god' with relgious theism.

well to me if there was a god..... hes put me in a hell where ppl keep posting new threads of crap already covered.....

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=43458.0

thats one of em

Nope, as fake as my first wife's love.

I do believe in a higher power, yes.

Jesus is the shit!  :smoking:

One of the things that makes me laugh about religion is the "praise" concept.  Here we have this divine Creator of the entire fucking Universe and he has such low self-esteem he needs people constantly telling Him he's the greatest.  Damn that cracks me up.   :rofl:

My dad has the belief that all of our currently known creation (including the scope of the universe we can study with telescopes and such) is in the petri dish of some scientist.  The scientist is what we call "God" but he can't do anything with each individual person.  He just watches this little universe through a microscope. and might not even know people exist in there. My dad is currently trying to get ex-communicated from the Catholic church (true!)

Personally, I believe in a higher power. I guess I have more of a spirituality rather then a religion, and I'm fine with that :)

Real. You infidels will burn in hell. :)

As a former theology student, raised a Roman Catholic, I find myself inclined to believe in something. I had my little tantrum period where I believed in nothing, but I've always been attracted to the romanticism inherent in religious traditions and myth. Taking a big step back, I believe things to exist on many levels, some higher than our own. Call it God if you'd like. I reckon there to be a divine presence, but that's just me. Having studied religion, I'm able to separate the idea of God from the existence of a church or organized religion, which judging my many of your posts in this and other incarnations of the same type of thread over time, a lot of you aren't.

Sorry sir. I won't do it again, I swear!  ::)
Why don't you apply to be a moderator if it pisses you off so much?  :hihi:

Are you thinking of THIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway) place? Hell Norway? I thought it was cold there.

Only in the winter...but it gets warmer every year :nervous:

the fact that so many people do believe in a god, and that this belief effects people's lives so dramatically, i think there absolutely is a god.

there may not be an actual being, but at a minimum, the "god" is that belief which guides people's lives. and that belief is a powerful force.

 :hihi: :hihi:

I dont no, this is way to heavy a topic to be thinking about during my lunch but I do believe god exists in principle but im not into orgainised religion or unorganised religion for that matter. 

I keep going back and forth. I was raised Roman Catholic too and I have an uncle who is a priest. Lovely topics at the holidays. But anyway, there is so much bad that happens in the world that I can't understand so I question my faith. But then I see karma happen to people and I think again that there is someone out there. I've read a lot about theories - reincarnation - god I hope I don't have to go through this bullshit again - and some of it seems to make more sense than religion. I pick and choose what I believe as a Catholic. I do go to services but not regularly. I am raising my kids to believe in God and I hope I am doing the right thing. I have discussed God's existence with my uncle and he always has answers but they are faith based and nothing concrete. I want to believe there is a better place where we go when we die because I struggle with the concept of death. For instance, I love music, just love it. I can't imagine never being able to listen to music again, especially GNR, when I go. I asked my hubby to put a radio with extended batteries in my coffin so I can have music with me in death. Yes, it's nuts but again it's my struggle between belief and disbelief.

I don't know. Nor do I understand why some people think that anyone who believes in (a) God is an idiot.

Unless you happen to believe that your godhatesfags of course. ;)

Real.


God or a higher power doesn't necessarily have to be inclusive to a certain religion. I think for the most part it comes down to personal interpretation. It's best to decide how God/the higher power is present in your life. Spirituality can be a personal experience and/or something you share with others. Whatever makes sense to you.


I did an essay on Thomas Edison. He didn't relate to any religious perspectives either, but he did believe in a supreme intelligence. He said all the proof of that Intelligence he needed could be summed up in the unique properties of ice, the only crystalline substance that doesn?t sink in water. One of his quotes: "and it is rather lucky for us mortals, for if it had done so, we would all be dead. Why? Simply because if ice sank to the bottoms of rivers, lakes, and oceans as fast as it froze, those places would be frozen up and there would be no water left. That is only one example out of thousands that to me prove beyond the possibility of a doubt that some vast Intelligence is governing this and other planets."

I think this is especially relevant http://youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ

One of my favorites. The guy is just too funny. ^

This presumes life was somehow meant to form, rather than it formed because it could. Just because some is advantageous to life doesn't mean God did it. Sligt temperature changes send ecosystems into peril, which proves to beyond the possibility of a doubt that no vast intelligence governs anything.

Are you aware of the extreme preciseness necessary for the Universe to be able to create life? For example, you change the electric charge in atoms by a fraction of a billion and the Universe doesn't happen. Same goes with a bunch of other mathematical values.


Yeah, but it doesn't disprove the existence of a god, only your perception of one.

Obviously you can redefine god to counter any arguments, but then the word itself becomes meaningless.

This guy obviously would say God is real......  ::)

http://tinyurl.com/27btfp

ATLANTA --What to do when the rain won't come? If you're Georgia Gov.
Sonny Perdue, you pray.

The governor will host a prayer service next week to ask for relief
from the drought gripping the Southeast.

"The only solution is rain, and the only place we get that is from a
higher power," Perdue spokesman Bert Brantley said on Wednesday.

Perdue's office has sent out invitations to leaders from several
faiths for the service, set for Tuesday.

Perdue has several times mentioned the need for prayer -- along with
water conservation -- as the state's drought crisis has worsened. Over
the summer, he participated in day of prayer for agriculture at a
gathering of the Georgia Farm Bureau in Macon, Ga.

Perdue, a Baptist, has enjoyed strong support from Georgia's Christian
conservatives.

The Southeast has been suffering from an intense drought in recent
months that has threatened supplies of drinking water. Georgia has
been locked in a battle with Alabama and Florida over how much water
should be sent downstream from the state's dwindling reservoirs.

Governors from the three states reached a temporary agreement after
meeting with Bush administration officials in Washington.

The prayer service will be held outside the state Capitol on Tuesday.
Unless, of course, it rains.

"Then we'll move it inside, thankfully," Brantley said.

Please show me where god was ever defined and I'll accept your argument.

hey im just letting ya know..... its actually in the rules ?:yes: ?just because you just thought of it dont mean its never been thought of b4... saves everyone from seeing the exact same hreads every 12 months started off brand new

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/God  :hihi:

That is God, not god ;)

God (with a capital G) as in the title of the thread generally includes something like 'creator of the universe' in the definition. Beyond that, your reply makes little sense if you aren't prepared to offer a definition of God or god, yet imply that other people's definition is wrong.

No one knows. That is why we're having a debate. :P

But as I said, if you know something we don't, feel free to share. So far you have produced nothing except labeling my opinion as bullshit based on absolutely nothing.

You can't debate something until you define what it is you're debating. I'm not going to define god because I didn't introduce the word here, you did by implying someone's perception was wrong. However, it's pretty clear that the exchange you tacked onto, though added nothing to, was about God which has a definition most people can more or less agree on.....see Prometheus' link.

I never implied anyones perception were wrong, I merely stated that perception is subjective.

And again, nowhere does it state that this thread is about any particular god, definition of god or consensus of god. It's simply about god, whatever one wants to attribute to that.

In fact I have empirical evidence that can refute your claim. You said: Just because some is advantageous to life doesn't mean God did it. Sligt temperature changes send ecosystems into peril, which proves to beyond the possibility of a doubt that no vast intelligence governs anything.

Which shows that your perception of a god is of a caring one. Well, I'd say it's pretty clear when opening a history book that if there is a god it does not care what happens to man on earth. Yet you use that as an argument, beyond the possibility of doubt even. Well, that is pretty bold stuff right there, so show me the evidence.

If not you can start by accepting that my arguments are as good as any.

Mama Kin made the quote which you attributed to me

I stand corrected.

But you still lended your support to the statement, so the argument stands.

You know, although i do have some form of faith, it's very hard to keep it, let alone believing in a " god" as christianity describes it.

My life, like some other people's lifes, has been excruciatingly hard, some things should never have happened, never.

How can one believe in god ?

I meet people who pray in the hope their lifes change, who go to church thinking there will be a divine sign.

I mean, it's all bollocks, people suffer, we live, we die, we are beaten or raped, stolen from, cheated on, we loose our material goods, our homes, our healths too.

Where is god in all these ?

If god existed, do you think he would have let 9 million jews go to nazi ovens ?

Because they prayed, they prayed hard, they didn't take weapons because they prayed and they died.

So what's god really ?

Merely a reflection of our fears, of our pains, of our hopes ?

Just a foolish mirror in which we look at times of trouble in the hope we find strengh we think we don't have.

But what we see in the mirror isn't heavenly or magic, it's us.

So why look into it ?

I found out yesterday that i was agnostic.. or believe in it.. don't ask me what it means though :hihi:

agnostic : not for christianity, not against christianity

yeah something like that.. but i do believe in something, there are all kinds of agnostic belief.. (i think :hihi:)

Why look into that mirror you ask?  Because I look damn good!   8)

Seriously...I look damn good.  Now on topic, I hear ya Jessica and CheapJon. 

I think my logical mind is 100% atheist, but my heart holds out hope there is something beyond what we know here on Earth.  Sounds crazy huh?  However, I don't ascribe to any one particular faith because in so doing, I am telling hundreds of millions of other people their beliefs are wrong.  If I fall into line with any major organized religion, I am pissing on the graves of those slaughtered or subjugated people whose belief structures were crushed by the century-old swords of today's major religions.

 :(       

I didn't particularly support MK's his argument though I do within the context of the first post which specifically mentioned the old testament and the implied definition of God which goes along with it. I certainly don't disagree with you that if there is a god then he/she/it is not benevolent. But my main point (again) is that these debates are a little pointless without a definition to start from.

A couple of days ago I read about an argument from some kind of Christian minister justifying that hell was necessary as a punishment for truly evil people like Hitler who didn't receive an earthly punishment. And the counter argument that according to most Christian doctrine the Jews would be in hell too.

Sorry, but that makes you an atheist :) Hope doesn't count.

Agnostic literally means without knowledge, which describes just about everyone (theist and atheist) as far as existence of G/god(s).

Ha, nice one Tap.   :hihi:  Hope doesn't count?  Then what the hell have I been doing on this board for almost 5 years?  :hihi:

I think you understand where I'm coming from.   : ok:

I'm a CD theist

With 4 albums on their way, I think it's more like polytheism.   :hihi:   :peace:

I don't think so.

it means they aren't sure.  they acknowledge there may be a god and they acknowledge that there may not be a god.  and they generally are not concerned.

i worship myself

im not sure but something out there helps me along in life.if it's god then so be it.something we believe is there when we end.a last hope of life we like to think.that we will go on in spirits.i pray but don't go to church but find god answers me prayers.even if im not going each  week to church.im really weird about relegion.just in life when i feel spirtuaul.everyday life  things.life death and such.we do believe something at least.as far as research i found im not sure what to really believe.some get really carried away with it though.then it's scary.

Horsey, God spoke to me today and told me to tell you there are 2 spaces after each period.  Don't disappoint him.  ;D
Seriously though, I'm cool with your belief structure.  I think there are a lot of folks out there like you. 

LOL

dirty fucker

OMG IM JUST LAZY WITH TYPING ANYMORE
double dratt lol
been a long week so far '
an a couple days later too '

Actually whether there is or is not a God is almost irrelevant.

It's the way that religion preaches intolerance that is really bad, and the way that so many people blindly follow it.? ?I find it absolutely staggering that apparently educated people can actually be religious.? It's truly incredible.


And if there is a God, I doubt that he gives a crap about the glorified popularity contest that happens in his name.

If there is a god, then he/she/it is a petty tyrant that gets their jolly from the suffering of their own followers for minor infractions. No thanks, he/she/it ain't for me.

But is that gawd, or some dopes version of it?

If you don't believe in God then you deny your own existence.  God is everyhwere and is everything.  There is no beginning, there is no end...it's something we as humans cannot comprehend...eternity....the universe...think for a second...how do you explain it....you can't.

I gotta tell ya, that didn't really sell me.

I'm not a preacher nor am I trying to sell you on anything....just use your mind for a second...stop thinking in just black & white...

Do yourself a favor and google: the universe....it's overwhelming, beyond human comprehension...to me it's as simple (or complex) as that.

Find me a scientist, astronomist, doctor, genius, or anyone who can explain in common words the meaning of infinity....you can't, noone can, and that's the same thing about trying to get someone to explain God.

I sure one day one will be able to explain infinity for you in layman terms. you just might have to wait a will.


It is funny that many ,many years ago ancient Greeks ,ect held their books up to be the words of gods . Now we sit in a classroom and chuckle at the stories. Will that be how it is for the bible in a few hundred year?

You can't explain it in scientific terms either...and when I mean explain, actually understand how it works, not just some wiklepedia defenition.

I actually thought about that the other day while I was driving and I came to the conclusion that would be unlikely.  Most of the current religions have been around for thousands of years, not hundreds so in order for that to take place it would probably take alot longer.  Personally I feel that there will be a major event that occurs within the century that will answer all of our questions.

You may be right about an event of major proportions happen that will explain things. But it also may cause even more deeper questions that will not have an answer to spring up.

Ha, me neither. I always love the 'you have to open your mind' bit.....

I shouldn't do this, but ...


Of course not, how does one explain something that does not exist.


Maybe a lack of undestanding is why you can't accept:

The limit of f(x) as x approaches ∞ ?= x?. It has been a long time, but graph that and see what comes up. I think that will give you something infinitly large.

Similarly, infinitly small can also be obtained, i.e. take the nuber one and divide it into 10 parts; take one of those parts and do it again; now do that an infinit amout of times ... viola! that is infinitly small. Your lack of knowledge doesn't mean that knowledge doesn't exsist.

That is a false analogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy), and therefore irrelevant. There is an old idiom "if you tell someone something long enough, they will believe it". Well, religion has been told for atleast 60,000 years.

No offence dude, but that's a load of cack.? The simple fact that we cannot explain something does not make it the work of God.


Arthur C Clarke famously said (I'm paraphrasing) "Any sufficiently advanced technology will appear indistinguishable from magic".? In this case, you're suggesting that the "magic" is God.? ?We've seen plenty of real world examples of this.? ?There was a show on discovery recently about a kid who was brought over from Africa to the US for an operation.? ?This kid lives in a grass hut and walks 3 milies to get water each day.? No, there are no TVs or electricity.? ? To him - the automatic doors in the US were just like magic.? The way that they "knew" that they were there showed that they were intelligent.? ?So by your reasoning, the doors actually ARE magic.?

You're COMPLETELY confusing your desire to believe in God with proof and or reason for the existence of God.? ?You have every right to believe in God, but you should do yourself a favour and at least understand WHY you believe in God.

I will help you get started.? ?In all likelihood, You believe in your God because someone told you to.? You were born into the religion or you converted to it based on direct contact with others that helped "save" you.? ?You have no way of knowing that your religion is right, but you base a significant portion of your life on it.? ?And had you been born in the Middle East, you would have unquestionably been a Muslim, although today you believe that they're wrong and you're right, based on a distinct and clear lack of any evidence whatsoever to the contrary.? ?Faith is belief in the absence of proof.? ?Whether it's God, the tooth fairy or the boogeyman.? ?They're all on an equal footing, but you choose to believe in God but not the tooth fairy of boogeyman.? ?That's faith, that's what you have.

And Christianity teaches us that the other religions are all wrong, so your "thousands of years" point works against you.? ?Sure, for thousands of years people have been worshipping God, but they were worshipping false Gods and are now in Hell right?? And you ARE aware of the origins of the NT right?? ?How it was assembled?? The history of the individual books??

The bottom line is that organized religion is nothing more than a glorified popularity contest that teaches people how to be intolerant.?


And finally - infinity IS something that we can explain.  I think you're trying to infer that we cannot explain the origin of the universe and somehow confusing that with infinity.   As a concept, infinity is very well known.

Not being able to explain something does not mean it does not exist. Doing so is arrogance in it's purest form.


We can calculate it, but we can't understand it. Big difference.


Some call it religion, I call it early history. Sure, it has been tainted over the years, you're idiom suggests that. That however does not mean it isn't based on some sort of truth.

Of course. That was a little sarcasm. Not being able to explain something that does exist is entirely different from trying to explain something that doesn't.


It is a concept that some do understand


There is a history of the rituals, but I don't think many will find any truth in the "Cave Bear Cult".

Disagree. They may think they do though. No way of knowing really. I don't think we're meant to grasp it, only utilize it.


Probably not, but there are a lot of truths in ancient mythology, which science simply waves off as fantasy. Some fantasy I say. Collective fantasy even.

Religion was a means of explanation for the surroundings in archaic societies, and it served it's purpose well ... then.

Arrogance in it's purest form (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=211)

It goes beyond that. Highly sophisticated knowledge are present in those texts and the societies that wrote/utilized them. It's not a bunch of nomads trying to explain thunder by some god in the sky. That came afterwards.

I think Gods and religion add some value to society.

If someone close passes away, it is good to think that they have gone to a better place.

I am not a religious person though.

The reason people are so doubtful these days is because of all the new information we have learned about how we evolved and how our brain works. Also, people now go around debunking myths of all types. Most have logical, rational explanations. And people see how thinking one religion is right over another causes trouble and they see all the war in the world because of it. I think many people want to distance themselves from something that would cause more pain and anguish. It is just easier to not have any religion.

Sure they (religions) add comfort in some situations.   But they teach you intolerance at the same time.  Worthwhile trade-off?   No chance.  The damage that is continually done to humanity in the name or religion is sickening.

I think that's clearly a powerful motivation to have faith in a higher being - the need to feel that we have immortal souls. ?In fact, when I die, it's not even necessary that I go to a "better place", I'll go any place (except New Jersey). ?The permanence of death is tremendously difficult to accept.
 ?

Religions preach many things. I never said they were perfect.

Believing in things is our protection from death and the consequences of death. It makes it all easier. Unfortunately, there have been consequences historically, and it will probably be our downfall in years to come if a meteor doesn't hit us first.

However, people cannot stop doing what comes to them naturally.

The problem with mankind is that they can never take a step back and understand how everything works.

I hate to be pedantic, but it's not protection at all, it's a perceived protection.  Our desire to believe in God (or not) has no bearing on his actual existence. 

And the damage done by religion is easy to sweep under the carpet as historical, but it's still going on, every day, all around the world.   Sure the crusades are done.  There's no Spanish Inquisition this year, but each individual sect of religion is still teaching that it is the only righteous path, the exclusive path to heaven, and that you should bring your friends or they'll go to hell.

Regrettably, there are people out there that NEED religion and I think we'll always have it. 
 

I've always found that evolution led by a higher power to be what I leaned towards. Why should it always be so black and white?

I find the limitations created by "faith" to attack the true nature of man: freedom. That, among other things, is why I frown on most organized religions. I find Christianity to be just as brutal, primitive, and narrow minded as Islam.

While I can not completely adhere to all Buddhist philosophies I have tremendous respect for their outlook on life, impermanence, mindfulness, and intent. This ideology provides the means to enjoy and appreciate my life to the fullest extent. That paired with a belief in a higher power makes my life easy to appreciate. Many things I can not control, I won't question why, I'll just let it be, and as long as I led my life with true intentions, then I am content.

Everything know about evolution suggests it's built from the bottom up rather than directed from above. There's no evidence of design in evolution at all, and it's so inefficient (not too mention brutal) that it's almost impossible to fathom why a "higher power" would do it that way, certainly not a benevolent one. Of course, that leaves open that the higher power may be an irrational douchebag..... :)

it's all a experiment being done by mice..............

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're argument basically boils down to

1. I don't know what infinity means
2. Therefore no one else knows what infinity means
3. Therefore God exists.

Perhaps a higher power would find it all irrelevant in the scheme of things. The brutality, or inefficiency of evolution are something we as human beings place emphasis on. Who is to say that any creator would "think" the way we do? Who is to say any of what we deem logical or illogical holds water outside of the human mind?

Perhaps  - it would be better thought that perhaps if there IS a God, he doesn't care about the ridiculous popularity contests that human beings place emphasis on.   

But you're right, if there is a god we have no way of knowing what his criteria is.  Maybe he LIKES child molesting priests and they're all going to heaven and we're not.  Who knows. 

I've gotta say I love all the posts so far.  And yes, GeorgeSteele, the permanence of death is hard to grasp.  Obviously, that's part of the reason religions were conjured up.  In many ways religion provides peace of mind...that said, in my eyes, I see it more as an "ignorance is bliss" mentality.

Let's face it, if your life is a train-wreck and you're scrounging around for food, it would be nice to believe in something that promises better times once you're through with your life. 

The fatalistic outlook most religious folks have is something that really bothers me.  I have zero respect for this philosophy.  Nothing, no person, no God, no set of Gods, no angel, no aura, etc. has more power over you than you.  There's no greater threat to a person than what's looking back at them in the mirror.  Case closed.  Far more people off themselves every year than are killed by others.

It's unfortunate so many are drawn to the bullshit that is "organized religion."  But, that's how humans operate.  Follow the herd... :( 

True, I suppose, but why do you then think there is a higher power behind it. "Brutal" and "inefficient" I agree are emphasized because of the way we think, but that's because we've evolved enough for our natural instinct is to see design and purpose in something complex. But without the higher power, evolution isn't brutal and inefficient, it simply is....and to me that makes much more sense.

I don't necessarily believe there is a higher power behind evolution (Saying "led by" in my other post probably took you off course to what I meant, and that is my fault.) But I do not find it unreasonable to imagine that a much more simple form of life was created earlier and has since evolved into what we have today. Nature created and left on it's own to flourish, with all the good and the bad (or what we deem as such.)

Buddhists, or those who practice Raja Yoga may not see a "victim" but rather a person dealing with Karma, the abuser now the abused and so on. Working, evolving, to a higher level of existence, over series of lifetimes to attain enlightenment. It can be a hard pill to swallow as it is a concept so foreign to us. (The Buddhist monks, beaten and tortured by their Chinese, see the people who brutalize them as victims of bad karma, and feel compassion for them.)

Right now, I find it easy to believe in a "passive" creator, who created life, allowed it to evolve on its own terms without interference. Rather than a heaven or hell, the higher power allows karma to dictate the individuals life(s), short term and long term. Nobody is necessarily a victim, nothing is brutal, or inefficient, it is just karma working itself out, every action serving as a reaction from behavior (this life or other ) prior.

Yeah.

Amen to that brother!

I really don't think it is all black or white. I really believe religion should be an interpretation of what you value and hold to be true, even if it encompasses the beliefs from five different other religions because I don't believe any religion to be right or wrong (except scientology). And I apologize if anyone is reading this and they are a scientologist. Mostly, I was suggesting that research into our brain has proven that we can believe in something that is not concrete but also, those experiences people say they are having when they experience a near death episode are caused by chemicals or some matter that is triggered in our brain because our body is shutting down - most people equate it with seeing a bright light which they believe to be god or an after-life. So, all the miracles that people claim to happen, there is usually a scientific reason behind it.

And I do agree with your Buddhist thinking. I have found their beliefs to be closest to the way I think life should be. I agree with most of the teachings. The hardest I find to accept is reincarnation - because who would want to go through all this bullshit again? I guess that's why we can't remember past lives because if we could, we wouldn't want to go through it again and the suicide rate could be much higher. Any why can't we remember past lives? Remembering could help you to be a better person in your current life.

Anyway, I pick and choose what I believe. Most of it has a buddhist base to it even though I go to a Catholic church. Religion is very personal. But I must say that I probably have read about and researched other religions because of my fear of death. I want to see those people that have gone before me when I die, I want to enjoy music and laugh and just look at the peacefulness of nature. I find it hard to accept that it is just nothing after you die. No nature, music, or seeing people you once loved. It just ends and all you did in your life will be forgotten eventually unless you contributed significantly to society. I'm still learning to come to terms with it. Especially in this day and age, when everything is "move on, move on, move on" and so quickly. No tribute is paid to anyone in their death. Wakes used to be two or three days and now they are only a day and the hours are limited. Then the person is buried and you may or not go to a memorial, mass, service, or luncheon for the person. Depending on what is easiest for the family. It's almost if society is saying, well, he/she is dead, nothing we can do expect move on with our lives and the less time this whole funeral thing takes, the better because why should we put ourselves through suffering by feeling sad?

When I die, my kids will probably not even have a wake, put me in a microwave oven and throw me in the garbage. It's all become very sad.

Nowhere did I imply that it was. Quite the opposite actually. That's why I said "right now", it's my current feeling on the life, the universe, and everything*.


*Mad Props to Douglas Adams-a tip of my purple wig to you...

this thread has 666 views :nervous:

your god(s) is dead and no one cares if there is a hell i will see you there

Here is some punctuation and capitalization.? ?Help yourself:

YGII..

Spread those over your post and you'll find it works much better. :)

But for the record, I agree.? ?If there's an afterlife it's clear that the fun place to be will be Hell.?

Thanks for that wonderful amount of knowledge , sir.

Any time :)

What was the second "I" for?

First for "If", second for "I".

Not all 'religions' trade-off comfort with intolerance as has been said. Actually many religion/faiths have a common central idea of "suffering" and "self-denial".

There are many individuals who stand against these pseudo-"religious" people and live their lives devoted to God. There are a lot of things about many different faiths: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. that are misconstrued or twisted due to personal agenda, ignorance, and/or bad experiences with whatever faith they have came across so it's best not to assume anything. To research and look for your things yourself.

Religion, spirituality, and faith aren't as simple as going to church a couple of times and thinking you know what's up. For anyone who is interested in learning about why people believe what they believe and common misconceptions behind them, etc. I suggest "The Worlds' Religions" by Huston Smith. It's a great start.

So, in summation, I think that it's a little hasty to judge so quickly. And personally I think God is real. I've taken many religion classes, history, philosophy, etc., about all faiths (not just my own) so if anyone has questions, I'd be happy to help impart any wisdom or knowledge that I can. Not trying to sound pretentious, just trying to help make the world a better place by sharing knowledge, encouragement, and spreading love not through judgement, coercion,? or intolerance of any kind.

>MBF.

I'd like you to explain what a Christian is.

Fuck Yeah! I'm a christian!   Praise Jebus!  :peace:

I believe in a higher power - who/what it is, I'm not sure.

There's definitely something after this life though.

It depends on what god you're talking about...

The Christians' God... yeah, I think He exists. But I don't believe in church, I don't go to church, and there are so many different churches anyway that you can't tell which one is right! I think God has given us brains so that we can think by ourselves and not follow blindly some church that tells you that drinking = sin, and that if you keep drinking you'll end up in Hell. It's probably not that simple. ::)

I believe that there is a God, but i dont believe in the Church...most people get the two intertwined and messed up.....I also beleive that people use religion as a way for Power/bad...but it necessecarily doesnt mean that religion as a whole is bad....on the basis, the rules/commandments in the bible are guidelines that anyone should follow, its common sense whether you believe in a god or not...

Isn't Yahweh, Allah, and God all the same being?

Ohno! This thread has been resurrected.  :hihi:

Alright.

Let me preface this by saying that it's very difficult to quickly sum up what a Christian is because it's very complex. It's like asking, 'why do you love your wife' or 'what music do you like'? There are a lot of things to explain so hopefully I will provide an accurate description without becoming too longwinded.

Firstly, the word "Christian" was only used about 3 times in the Bible directly and during Biblical times usually held a negative connotation. There are many instances where it could be substituted, however the most common word used was "Disciple" which was used 250+ times. The simplest definition of a disciple would be a follower. Follow who, exactly? Well obviously follow Christ. In Acts 2:36 it says, "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ". So Jesus to a true Christian, a true follower would be both Lord (master) and Christ (The Messiah).

So a Christian is someone who surrenders their life to God and lives their life by God's word. God's word and direction shapes their life. Instead of living according to their sinful nature and desires, they are living lives of discipline and devotion to God. It's not purely legalism or as people making their own rules, but the reason that Christians follow God's word is because it's God's plan for their life. The Bible states in John 10:10 that Jesus came so 'that they may have life, and have it to the full'. For example, the Bible doesn't talk about sexual immorality or impurity because God wants to keep you in the dark about sex, but because sex is a huge gift and a huge part of marriage and God wants you experience what He had planned for it. Not sloppy seconds with some girl you barely know kind of thing. It has value and the sin is not only not trusting God but devaluing His plan for your life. Many biblical issues aren't purely of "do this....don't do that". You may have a plan what is right and good, but God's plan is best. That's why people trust the Bible. The problem is people often don't or aren't educated on proper biblical interpretation (see: exegesis, hermeneutics) or incorrectly read their own opinion into the text (eisegesis).

Becoming a Christian is a conscious decision to look at the Bible critically and a decision to either accept or reject it's teachings. It's not an emotional decision (IE: praying Jesus into your heart) or done on a whim. Think of it as a marriage. Most people who run off to Vegas break up fast, but the people who take things slow and do things intelligently will last. And just like any marriage it's two sided, God is going to do His part and you need to do yours by continuing to live your life for Him. There's a lot of sacrifice involved. The general progression of "becoming" a Christian would be starting to study the bible and praying (which is simply talking to God or thanking Him or asking for His guidance and wisdom), repenting, and getting baptized. This would be following Acts 2:37-38 which says, When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?".......Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The idea of repentance is also one that has been incorrectly defined. The word "repentance" comes from the translation of the New Testament from Koine Greek into Latin and into English. So repentance means, 'Do penance again'. However, this was an incorrect translation as the original Greek word was "Metanoia". Metanoia means "to change your mind". Much akin to metamorphosis and paranoia. So instead of the idea of doing penance or feeling bad about one's actions, the proper concept is to change your mind, your paradigm, your worldview back to God's.

So continuing with the sex statement before, we get into relationships and have a lot invested. Then something happens and the couple breaks up and one or both are left heartbroken. God, like any good parent doesn't want to see his children in pain. Instead of Him forcing people to love Him, He offers us free will. We can decide to live for Him or for oneself and God offers grace and mercy and a full pardon for all we've done wrong if one were to choose to live for him. However, if one doesn't there are consequences.

There's your answer and more, but hopefully I explained it well enough.

I thank God everyday I'm an Agnostic.   :hihi:

Does anybody really think God, if he, she, or it exists, cares whether or not you "believe" in him, her, or it?  Think about it...

Be a good person.  Help others.  Be polite.  Don't be angry.  Work hard.  I could go on, but do I have to???

 :peace:

Thanks.

Could you explain what work hard means

Sure.  Always try to reach your potential in whatever you do.  Basically, don't be lazy. 

I think I'm an aworkhardist

you're probably on your work now surfing on htgth :hihi:

I don't work in January on principle.

i believe he's real.

I actually had a dream last night that I was born-again.  I realize what it was.  On my way home, I was listening to The Dave Ramsay Show, and the guy always praises Jesus and stuff.  The power of suggestion is strong.   :nervous:

What would Foobie Jesus Do? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObTnl10KRJE) :hihi:

polluxlm, for all the times I bust on ya for the conspiracy theories, I've gotta give you props when you're on the ball...that quote is really cool.   :beer:

http://www.molleindustria.org/faith-fighter