Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Okay, after spending a few months lingering on the charts, it's safe to say that VR's second album bombed, selling less than a quarter of the debut. But why did it bomb?

1. Bad choice of the first single. "She Builds Quick Machines" is a solid song, but nothing exceptional. It's kind of generic and wasn't a good way to get people interested in the album.

2. Not enough promotion. "Libertad" just kind of came out--without a lot of buzz or hype.

3. The band took too long getting it out. All the fanfare and initial hype kind of died down three years after the well received debut.

its sub-par.  even to contraband's standards which weren't that high in the first place.    simple as that.   

She Builds Quick Machines is one of the cheeziest lamest songs of 2007.

Answer number two sounds about right.

It's a bloody shame since it's one of the greatest albums in 2007.

I think #2 and #3 go hand in hand.  I think there was a fair amount of promotion, people just didn't care about the album coming out.  The interest wasn't there, it's tough to promote something people aren't clamoring for.  I guess they could've whored themselves out like Jon Bon Jovi, but again I don't think that's what the public wanted.  Unfortunately that's the state of rock and roll today.  You've got to appeal to the masses, and the masses wouldn't know good music if it punched them in the face.

It wasn't promoted right.  Pushed.  Etc.  I totally disagree about it being sub-par, since I listen to it on a very regular basis and love it.  It's not sub-par, it's just not everyone's cup of tea.  I listen to Libertad a lot more than I listen to the (excellent) Guns N' Roses demos, such as Chinese Democracy, There Was A Time, etc .... I love them too ... but I still listen to Libertad more.  So, I can't see how Libertad can be described as sub-par.

:)

Shame ... but promotion is key.

I've never  bought into the "lack of promotion" theories at all.

They did all th late night shows, tons of radio/mag interviews etc.

Bottom line, the first single didn't capture the masses imagination.

a combination of all of them I think. it wasn't promoted at all over here, maybe we'll see a small promotion for the album when they tour around here though.
I think Libertad will sell quite a bit still.

I think "She Builds Quick Machines" was a bad choice as a first single. ?It should've been "Get Out The Door". ?

I wonder if some people just saw the band as a "supergroup" like Audioslave, and after Contraband, the supergroup novelty just wore off? ?I mean, look at Audioslave. ?Their albums saw diminishing sales with each successive release.

This just goes to show you that quality and sales do not necessarily go hand in hand.

Ali

The second Audioslave sold well (not as well as the first) and the third went Gold.

Yes, that's true, but the sales still diminished with each release.  That was the point I was trying to make.

Ali

I don't think the second Traveling Willbury's CD was as successful as the debut either.

Were they a supergroup? 

The point was that perhaps the first record's sales were inflated by some sort of novelty of VR as a supergroup, just like Audioslave.  Perhaps the novelty wore off and that contributed to diminishing sales with both Audioslave and VR.  Just a theory like everyone else is posting in this thread.

Ali

Well, they were made up of:

George Harrison
Jeff Lynne
Bob Dylan
Tom Petty
Roy Orbison

No one too famous, so I guess not.

I wasn't being sarcastic, I honestly didn't know.

The point is that supergroups have a certain novelty to them that can wear off and result in lower record sales.  That may have happened with Audioslave and that may have happened with VR, hence contributing to the lower sales for Libertad.

Ali

A lot of good points here, but it mainly depends of the first choice of the single. And in this case the label definitely dropped the ball. Get out the Door or Let it Roll would of did much better than SBQM, IMO.

When VR first began to do their club tour in 2004 Slither had been out for nearly 2 months. People wanted to go see them and hear what else the guys had in store. That didn't hapen this around b/c ?the 1st single was rather weak, compared to the rest of the album. ?I mean really Slither is a monster of a song, and "Get Out the Door" could of been that next song.

And lets not forget that SBQM wasn't released until nearly a month after the guys had begun touring. With no first single that kinda limits the bands drawing power too.

I was at the Edmonton show here last week and there might of been 5000 people there. The last time they were here it was sold out.

And I think the band has kinda thrown in the towel ?based on the show I saw last week, (on the album that is). They played 7 frickin' Contraband songs and only 5 Libertad songs. They didn't Grave Dancer, Just Sixteen or Pills, Demons, Etc. They played more songs from Libertad when I saw them in may in Toronto and the album wasn't even release. Nor was their single released for that matter.

Now the guys where extremely tight and sounded frickin awesome, but do we really need to hear Big Machine or Super Human anymore. Jesus if they're going to continue to play Contraband material how about bringing back "You got No Right" or start playing ?Loving the Alien. ?

LAter,

DH

they only played 12 songs or so? When I saw them they played over 20.

 - I'd say #1 and #3 are the main reasons.  SBQM is not a good song at all, cookie cutter as one of my friends described it.

 - I don't agree with #2.  In fact, I saw plenty of VR interviews where they didn't really have anything interesting to say (unless it was about GNR).  Plus others have mentioned the late night shows, there was plenty of promotion.

 - I would modify #3 by saying that some of the hype died down when people put down Contraband and didn't pick it back up after the initial excitement.

Was "She Builds Quick Machines" and "The Last Fight" even released as singles? Because I have seen no signs of both whatsoever, apart from the videos.

The only thing that I've seen/bought when talking about singles is the Melody and the Tyranny E.P.

I agree about the lack of promotion argument.  I mean what more promotion were you expecting?  They did the late night talk shows, they did a live concert on myspace, they took over Sirius Octane 20 for the entire weekend Libertad came out, Sirius promoted and gave away tickets to the current tour.  I mean, I don't know exactly what more could've been expected.  The fact is, people just didn't care about Velvet Revolver anymore.  They had a successful debut, people were interested to hear what they could do.  Been there, done that.  Some good stuff off of Contraband, but not much that would make you demand more.  I bought Libertad, I thought it was a good album, but Contraband probably didn't leave my CD player for a good 6 months or so.  Libertad lasted a few weeks, haven't listened to it in a couple months probably.  I've stated this before and I'll say it again, I think the reason for the flop could very well be because of the re-emergence of Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses.  Back when Contraband was released Axl was nowhere to be seen, we weren't sure we'd ever see or hear from him again in fact.  So many of us took what we could get at that point.  Axl and the band resurfaced in 2006 and speaking for myself completely grabbed my attention.  I cared a lot less about VR.  I'm sure a lot of diehard GNR fans share those same feelings.  If Axl goes back into hiding for a couple years and VR decides to release another album maybe I'd be back on the bandwagon, but as long as GNR is somewhat relevant, I'm all in.  I know I'm crazy, I know.

i think people who bought contraband by curiosity and with a certain excitment to see 3 ex-gunners on it
were disgusted enough by the poor quality of the album they didn't want to buy the new one.

Contraband had some really fucking good songs, most people loved it. I think this new cd doesnt have as strong songs as contraband although i think in general is a better cd overall.

Obviously everyone means the radio singles being used as promotion for the CD....

As for the CD's lack of success, a different selection of singles may have made a slight impact, but overall I don't think it would have made a huge difference.  I think it just wasn't the type of music the public was clamoring for.

Wasn't it the band, Slash in general, who pushed for SBQM to be the lead single?  Maybe they should've gotten some more input on that one.

I said this in a couple of other threads.

Its all about singles.


If U have great singles u sell a lot of records.

Same will go for Axl.

Why do u think CD probably hasn't came out yet?  Cause they want the perfect moment for the perfect single to hit.


I guarantee if Axl doesn't have an awesome opening Single, CD won't do so good either.


Even the whoring u guys claim Jon Bon Jovi does, If they don't have a great single, Their albums don't sell as well either.

Take Have A Nice Day

It was flopping until they released "Who Says You Can't Go Home" and it blew up and sold almost 2 million in the US.


Libertad has a nice collection of good songs, but no "Slither" or "Fall To Pieces" to push sells.

Yeah, sorry about those shots at Jon, D.  That may have been a little unfair.  I like the guy, but I was just trying to compare promotional differences.  He was ALL over the place when Lost Highway came out.  I've never seen such promotion.  I agree, there are some solid songs on Libertad, but nothing groundbreaking.  I thought "Lost Fight" would be a bigger hit, but that hasn't seemed to catch on either.  I really don't know if any song on the album, if released first, would've been able to save it.

I know.

But are there singles out there to buy except from Melody and the Tyranny?

Yeah that'd be my guess aswell. That along with SQBM being so generic and totally out of place as a first single.

No, I don't believe they released any official singles for these songs.  I suppose SBQM was supposed to be the focus of Melody and the Tyranny... too bad Just 16, Psycho Killer and Do It For The Kids are all better songs.   :-\

I mean, A Perfect Circle's which I love, released 3 albums, and the first one was the one who sold more than the other ones. 

Also remember that every years is getting worst for artists, meaning with all the downloads, and free music availability, people dont buy cds anymore.
I guess thats one of the main reasons. remember Contraband was released in 2004, and there was a lot of expectations, I think the second album is the most important album in every band 'cause that album is the one who says if you are good or gone.

I think they should have released "Let it roll" as a first single. the second one , gravedancer
I love Velvet Revolver, but its not groundbreaking music either. I mean they are not putting out an album thats going to change people's life, and they know it. Is a fun rock n roll band. thats the way I personally take it, and I love 'em. :beer:

Yeah Faldor but also, Scott Weiland and Slash cant get on the same programs and do the same things Jon is able to do. U have to look at that also.

Jon has put himself in a great position where he can go on ANY show he wants to promote his albums which is a testament to his business savvy and skill.


Going on a few late night talk shows and some magazines don't get the job done.

U have to really get out there and promote it coupled with a great lead single.

I think it has to do more with the rock scene more than it has to do with VR. ?None the less, I'm starting to see some faults or things they could have done differently.

Yes SBQM was a bad choice. ?It just has one of those annoying names that nobody is going to remember.

They should have released this album in 2006 and could have kept riding all the hype. ?Instead they stalled and kept touring playign the same songs with no new material. ? Also the album maybe shouldn't have been produced by O'brien even tho I was excited at first. ?It wound up sounding like an STP record and doesn't really have that VR current rock sound. ? Also they are a great live band, but I have to say since these two albums came out, I have still listened to AFD and UYIs more ?;)

Also compare Axl's tour last year to this VR tour. ?Axl played a different setlist and mixed it up where VR kind of did the same show and wound up cutting songs during the end of the tour even. ?I'm starting to see things from Axl's side now and not just the band for saying he was a control freak, but I'm starting to think he was the mastermind. ? ?

It's ok tho cuz lots of bands have bad records. ?If VR want to stay around they are gonna have to lower there egos and try to make one of the best albums they can. ?The fact that it took so long and it wasn't a success doesn't help tho. ?

I don't know what you're listening to, but Libertad is really far away from sounding anything like STP.
Axl is a mastermind for mixing the setlist up? I don't see what you mean, from the setlists Ive read, he didn't mix it up much. and I don't care much about it either, since there is a very small chance I will go to more than one show pr. tour of any band.

Far away?

It sounds like Stone Temple Pilots on smack, and it's really good - and I can't really see how it "flopped" to be honest.

But with lack of promotion, shit can happen to any band.

STP didn't need any help to sound like they were on smack ;D
seriously though, it doesn't sound anywhere like STP to me. it generally sounds a bit more like 70s rock such as Cheap Trick and Grand Funk I think.

I think they definitely waited too long to release the 2nd album. 3 years is a little too long a wait especially when their first record was basically recorded in a few weeks and was meant to be played live. If they did a 2nd record one year later the hype would have been there. Only a few people online were really anticipating the 2nd album, and the buzz for VR was long gone by the time it arrived.

The music sounds great live but it isnt quite as catchy on record. And I dont think Dave and Slash write together very well. I dont like Dave's "modern element" he brings to the band. It blows.

 : ok: Couldnt agree more. If they hadn't waited so long they would have done way better. I've said it before that Weilands attitude puts a lot of people off. That and anytime i have seen an interview with Slash it always "ex GNR guitarist" with no mention of VR.

If VR want to do better next time maybe they should go back to those Izzy Stradlin demos that Weiland didnt like! ;D

I think Libertad flopped for a lot of reasons. I think it's a strong album, but it does have 2-3 turds and SBQM might be the worst song on the album. "Slither" still gets more airplay than anything on Libertad, whichs proves what everyone is saying about how important it is to have a good lead single. Also, I think all the interest in GnR when Contraband came out, coupled with the interest in STP (which seems to have faded with the public), helped that album a lot. While I loved Contraband I think the lack of interest in VR's second album shows most people didn't.

fire Scott, fire Matt, and fire that bald dude.   Get Izzy, and get a decent drummer.    They'd be a cool band.

:hihi:

Come on, Dave is a great guitarist - and he's also one of the main reasons that I really dig Velvet Revolver's guitar work.

His rhythm playing is very impressing, especially on Libertad and I also have to say that he and Slash are suiting each other very well.

But it's all based on opinions.

There's nothing wrong with that "bald dude", Dave. ?He's a good guitar player and has good chemistry with Duff and Slash. ?While I'm not the biggest fan of Matt's drumming, you can't deny that he and Duff work well together as the rhythm section. ?They could use another voice in the songwriting department that fits in well with Slash and Duff, Izzy would be a good choice. ?Though, for whatever reason, Scott isn't a fan of what Izzy wrote with Slash and Duff. ?Or, they can let Dave contribute more as he wrote "Get Out The Door" which is my favorite rocker on the album.

The album felt stronger to me overall, but didn't have the same grabber of a lead single like Contraband did with "Slither".

Ali

Wonder what this will mean for the future of the band...

Buckcherry's second CD bombed, and they came back strong with album #3, but that could be merely an anomaly.

Buckcherry came back on a much smaller scale though. Look at the opportunities VR had to get a huge audience.

Top (or very near) of the bill at LOADS of major festivals purely because of the Slash/GNR link.

The were on Live 8 in London at prime time with millions of people watching around the world

Then they go missing for 2 years instead of capitalizing on such huge exposure. So what happens - nothing. They were giving away loads of gig tickets as competition prizes 2 days before some of the UK tour dates.

Can't see them recovering from this.  :(

I still think "Timebomb" is far and away Buckcherry's best. But you also have to remember when comparing 2nd album flops with them and VR that Buckcherry broke up for 4 years and came back with 60% of the lineup changed before their 3rd album.

But, wait....who's going to sing lead?  Izzy & Duff? 

If I had to pick, Izzy.  But neither, they should have a different singer.  Not someone from the grunge era.  Bach would have been a good fit but I'm glad he didn't join up with them.

Buckcherry came back strong with their last album cause they had a novelty song "Crazy Bitch" that people really got behind.  U take Crazy Bitch off, and that album doesn't go aluminum.

I have had vacuum cleaners which have sucked less than that song.

 :yes: Thank you. Why do people think that's a good song?

 :rofl:  True tho, people say this is a "good" song 'cause its a "rock & roll" song, that's all really, catchy song with stupid lyrics. to me is more pop than rock.

I can tell you all this, rock n' roll sales are down across the board. The genre is not as strong as it used to be. Once it was almost a religion, now it's as disposable as anything else made these days. People aren't connecting with it like they were in the past.

Well said...the biggest selling albums are hip hop and it makes me sick!

4. The songs weren't good enough. I still can't listen 3 songs without having the need to skip. The album has a _few_ good tracks, bunch of mediocore tracks and a few shitty tracks.

Really frustrating to play the cd when you constantly think "ah not this again". I guess contraband is kinda the same without the "shitty" tracks. You can actually listen the whole cd (contraband) without going "why the fuck did they do this?".? (She Mine, American Man, Pills Demons & Etc. & Can't Get It Out Of My Head ?!?!)
 
drunk, frustrated blablablaa...

"The genre is not as strong as it used to be."

People would connect and buy, but there's nothing there.

This concerning "mtv/moderd rock" mostly atm. There are actually good bands out there, but the mainstream is just hollow.

So it was a flop just because the album didn't sell enough units to be considered a big hit is it ? I have some stuff in my collection from one band that was on the strip in the late eighties that very few people seem to know about called "Royal Court of China" and from what I have heard it didnt sell well, but I think it's great. I hate that success is based on the number of albums a band sells. It's a sad state of affairs when the so called music channels today wouldnt know music if it jumped up and bit them.

As Duff said in the "seven days in Rio" video that I have seen, some of his favourite albums haven't sold millions of copies yet he likes them and that was what mattered to him, and I feel the same way.? Albums sales hold no bearing on whether I like a album or band, and I won't go buy an album just because it has sold millions.

And also I think the music industry as a whole is severally lacking something and with record labels pricing albums at over inflated prices, most kids trying to get into music can't afford to buy the stuff, which has led to a rise in illegal downloads which has not helped the injured animal that the scene is at the moment.

Well that's my two cents on the matter.

I agree with you, however it's just a matter of what people are interested in and eventually that's what the music channels are going to grab onto, and they'll mostlikely base what they're going to play on radioplay, requests and albumsales, and I don't think I can really blame them for that. If there'd be, lets say 100.000 R&B fans watching their channel and 100 metalheads, who would you cater to? I know I'd go for the R&B fans because you'd have to keep that channel running with as much viewers as possible and I'd give the metalheads a couple of hours a week of airplay for their genre.

The flipside of the story is that because it's not getting a lot of airplay or attention in general that people don't really broaden their horizon, so to speak, when it comes to other genres. I personally once only listened to that popmusic stuff and fell in love with some guy who wore Slayer and GNR shirts and whatnot...I wanted to have something to talk about so I figured 'I might aswell check those bands out'  :hihi: otherwise I probably would've never gotten into Slayer.

With VR everything was just a little to hyped up to me..I read all those interviews where they were all saying stuff like 'this is the best stuff we ever did' and 'we never pushed ourselves this hard to make a record' so I thought: well this is going to be awesome! when I actually heard the record I wasn't really feeling it, and I'm still not...I liked Contraband better.

She Builds Quick Machines was simply put, a crap song and to use it as the first single (the first track that is going to draw people to your album) was disasterous. 

well to answer the original question, to me it didnt sell well cos personally i want to see slash with axl & axl with slash thats it. possibly some more ppl are like me, are we the major part int this case...humm very possible.
will be the same for axl's solo band called guns n' roses. of course he'll sell more for sure cos he has the name & cos its been 15 years but should be a flop too for sure if chinese ever comes out one day, plus the fact that ppl dont buy records anymore. or possibly i am all wrong but thats my case.

Bad first choice for single-Slither seemed to catch on for people very quickly-I remember in Detroit at State Theater, people singing along to chorus of Slither (This was about a week before album was released!)-Fall to Pieces was also played to death on VH1-I just think Contraband was way better-Libertad is a fair to good album, but there wasn't really a song i played over and over-I'd like to see them go heavier if there is another album

Slither has become a classic hard rock song.  It has aged well!

It has-I remember I didn't get it at first, but it is a great song

Libertad is a better album than Contraband, but there was a lot less interest this time from both fans and critics. It probably didn't help that it was badly promoted and that most mainstream critics weren't even sent a copy of the album to review.

it flopped because it was shit.

why is the sky blue? :beer:

Contraband sold largely on the hype of the other two bands.  The record label played up the "Guns N' Roses + Stone Temple Pilots" angle as much as they possibly could.  And the fact is Contraband didn't really sound THAT much like GnR or STP although it was closer to STP than Guns, and it was a good album but it didn't come close to the best of either of those groups

Probably 80-90% of the people that bought Contraband bought it strictly based on hype and because they were a fan of GnR and/or STP.  With Libertad, Velvet Revolver could no longer milk the GnR and STP franchise names.  They had to sell records based upon their music and their merits as the band Velvet Revolver.  And people just weren't that interested.  The fact is that Contraband, although a lot of people enjoyed it, overall received a pretty lukewarm reception.  A lot of people who were initially interested in VR are/were GnR fans, and I don't think making a softer, poppier, more commercial album like Libertad was exactly the brightest move when it came to winning over GnR fans who were on the fence after Contraband.  A lot of the people interested in VR were expecting GnR style riffs with the biggest difference being Scott Weiland singing instead of Axl.  What happened with Libertad is that these "on the fence" fans heard an album that didn't sound anything like GnR and in my and many others opinions sounded like several really good songs scattered amongts a bunch of STP B-sides.  Libertad lacked the homerun singles of Contraband and it also was not nearly as appealing to most GnR fans as Contraband was

You know, I don't know if how good it was matters....  Its not "radio" music, and real music doesn't sell great.  Look at BLS, its kick ass, but doesn't sell shit.  I don't get it.

BLS used to kick ass when Zakk started it up......then it got really boring and repetative to me.  BLS was soooo fucking raw in it's original settings, actually used to be my favorite band from Sonic Brew up until 1919 Eternal, but after that it just lost that edge and become more watered down in the sense.  I couldn't even fathom the Blessed Hellride or anything else after that and if anything it got more radio friendly.

Libertad was full of radio friendly songs......the problem was they picked the one with the simple formula and went with it.  By the time that single had run it's course, the album lost steam.  Mary Mary and Let It Roll and even American Man are all very radio friendly songs that would survive for a bit on the charts, but not cause any serious stir.  VR just hasn't been able to come up with that one song that sticks....that's memorable, from Libertad.

can i remind you that Appetite only sold 200.000 after being out on the market for roughly as long as Libertad has.....and before some smartass starts comparing the two....i know they're nowhere near related....my point is that Libertad is still a new album, and even though they've made some mistakes with regards to promotion and singles choice, there is still time for it to bounce up the charts and make some decent money.

i don't think its that great of an album, but its not the shittest thing out there either.....it could do better.

Psycho Kileer should be released as a single, and that will pick it up....pitty that's not on the final album.....

It's a good record, but the problem is that there aren't any home run singles like Appetite had.  Appetite's problem was getting proper exposure, like MTV.  Once they got that, it exploded.  Libertad had that, or as much of that as it will get, from the beginning.

Ali

Okay, I'll bite and be that smartass  :hihi:

AFD sold slowly out of the gates because people didn't even know who GnR were.  People knew who VR were and knew they had an album out and didn't care.  It's a comparison that pits ignorance to apathy, very different entities.  It seems you are clutching at straws if you think releasing a cover song that isn't even on the album is going to boost sales in any noticeable way.  I seriously doubt that Libertad will even see a third single released to radio and even if it does, it's not going to have any significant impact on sales

I think that the people that stated the there is less of a novelty with the second album coming out are half right.  You have to realize that these days, the music industry is much different than it was 20, 10 even 5 years ago.  Let me explain why....

Internet downloading is becoming more and more popular and of course that hurts album sales.  Another huge factor is the fans nowadays only buy what they hear on the radio or watch on MTV.  If I remember correctly, VR's debut album was heavily promoted on MTV and VH1 and unless I'm mistaken, I think there was somekind of show (1 episode) that more or less introduced the next "supergroup".  They were the newest and hottest thing so even if you didn't like there music, your buddy and everyone else in the class had the album so you had to go out and get it too.  They are no longer that hot novelty so sales are based strictly on the quality of music and the desire of their fans to support the band.

The third and just as important factor would be all the die hard Guns N' Roses fans that bought the debut album in hopes of having owned the "next Appetite For Destruction".  Unfortunately for them, Contraband was a good album but a far cry from AFD...so you lose even more fans there.

The combination of the three plus a lesser quality of music = flop.

Plus the fact that Axl and GNR were inactive back when Contraband was released.  2 years prior to that we thought Axl was back and here to stay, then he disappeared again.  At that point some of us (I) took what we could get, and that was 3 ex-members of GNR mixed with the lead singer of STP.  When Libertad came out Axl and GNR were active again, causing much less excitement for some (me) in terms of Velvet Revolver.

Yes!  You are a perfect example of what I am talking about. : ok:

I personally believe it's all down to lack of promotion.  Especially in the UK/Europe, They seemed to follow the same pattern they used for Contraband.   By touring before the album came out then nothing since.   I think their management should have got them on alot more tv shows and radio shows...I don't think they showed up anywhere on uk tv this time around...i may be wrong. but i didn't see anything. 

There are shows such as Later with Jools Holland ..if u nail it on there, ppl remember it there's alot of respect to be earnt from going on there.  Jonathan Ross prob the biggest talk show on uk tv. Chris moyles on the radio (just for the huge audience figures). I haven't even seen any MTV specials or concerts of them.  I think they need to tap into all of that alot more. Not sell out. But look back at how many GNR gigs were recorded and broadcast over the world. And how many MTV specials there were. They didnt heavily promote on talk shows ect.  But they chose the right mediums that reached all over the world. 

But i'm sure all over Europe there are shows VR could have done that would have reached many people, and kept the interest of Contraband going a bit longer.

I find myself loving certain songs on Libertad more than ever now....there are a couple i skip but u get that with most albums.  I think and this is only a guess and my feeling.  But i think Slash and co are prob too aware of their audience' expectations. for example look at Robin Finck now to how he was on the first tour and remember the annoyance levels of some GNR fans on here.  The goth boy wasn't welcome....but the full bearded rocker fella is lol. And i think that same audience would be petrified if Weiland walked out in full dress and make up lol.   I think Weiland needs to let more of himself out on their next album and i think Slash and Duff ect need to be a lil more open to experimenting a lil.  Using their own roots a lil more too.   

GET TONI VISCONTI or  BRIAN ENO   To produce the next album!  Their track record speaks for itself. I think it would be a killer album.         


   

it wasn't an apples for apples comparison...because a study like that couldn't be done....as mentioned by many in this thread, VR's material is nowhere near strong enough....

My point with Psycho Killer is that it should have been included on the record, and if that was released as a single ( a first single), it would have kept the album afloat for longer, generated more sales....purely because of its catchy, easy to remember, poppy chorus line...which todays youth could relate to easier than "She Builds Quick Machines"....that's all i was trying to say...

i do agree with you that the album won't see a third single, i frankly have no idea as to which song they could even choose for that, perhaps they may do a radio release single only, but probably no mass rotation video for it...

agreed a third single isn't going to pick up any momentum on this album.   but hopefully they release Let It Roll jus cuz its the best song on the album.

Psycho Killer is a cover - you can't have the opening single from an album be a cover, that's lame!

Um, no it's not.

Contraband kicks Libertad's ass... :hihi:

Well, I think Libertad is better as well. Then again, I guess thats how opinions work, now isn't

I prefer Libertad ... but I like both albums a lot.  I just like rock music.  I don't mind that it's not as good as Appetite.  I don't mind at all.  Appetite is untouchable.  The Illusions albums are too.  No one from the GnR 80's and 90's days will ever match those albums.

I don't mind.  Comparing to them is pointless ... I like bands who are no where NEAR as good as GnR was ... but that doesn't mean I don't like them :)

Opinion is one thing, but it was stated like it was fact.

I dunno, I support VR and all, but Libertad just sounds so uninspired on most of the tracks.
I've tried to listen to it see what people are hearing that makes it supposedly 'better' than Contraband, but it just bores me. Either that or the mix/guitar tones annoys me so much thar I don't want to listen to it.

Contraband rocks from start to finish, and even listening to it today 3 years after it was released, I still think it's a really solid rock album.

it is very generic..
no power.. no fun
contraband.. was cool, not great.. but you could hear it and it was fun

Maybe Rick Rubin was right.






/jarmo

Metallex, I agree with you.  Contraband is much more powerful and edgey.  The mix sux on contraband, but the music is mean and raw.  Like Suckertrain Blues, its a very gnr type song musically and scott actually is good on that track.  Slither to me is a modern rock classic.  It still rocks and I stil love to hear it.  That album, though not great, does stand the test of time. 

Libertad has good ideas, but sometimes the songs don't develop quite enough and aren't milked to their strenghts.  sometimes muscially the songs rock, but scott will drop the ball.  Also, they should have had all the songs on the album.  The ballads are good.  Let it roll is good, but Libertad won't satisfy your need for hard rock like contraband can.

Maybe not :)

I still love the album.  It's a case of working out what you want.  Progressive breakthrough songs ... or rock tunes built to rock.  VR is the latter ... and for that I thank them.  Some people always think you have to move all over the place as a band ... I don't agree.  I hate that GnR isn't doing the music it was before.  I hate that Axl's doing something that doesn't sound like the old band ... I LOVE the new songs ... don't get me wrong... but I hate when bands change their sound.  Coz I love the band for the style they were.  That's the only single reason I wish this was called Axl Rose solo album.  I mean... that's just an example.  It's the same with bands like Stereophonics here in the UK ... they went from being a kick ass rock band ... not heavy but still rock.  They went from that to being something different.  And that pisses me off ... even better example ... Manic Street Preachers.  I LOVE the old shit ... the new stuff just sounds NOTHING like the same band.

But ... well ... that's life I guess.  But at least I've explained my reasons for thinking VR are cool :)

So cool in your opinion equals boring and repetitive?  :hihi:


I'm the opposite, I love artists/bands who are not too afraid to try new things.

I think it's natural, people change so why wouldn't their music change along with it?


That's one of the things that amuse me with VR. The guys still pretend to be these angry dangerous 20-somethings. The only thing that they have to show for it is the denied visas to Japan....  ;)





/jarmo

Jarmo, Spirit Dave made his point.  No need to knock his opinion of VR.  What I like about VR and even say the rolling stones is that they are still trying to release music and create something.  Look at Van Halen, they just tour to tour, but don't care much about trying to write an album. 

I mean, lets not be too greedy.  Its not your cup of tea, that is fine, but I, like spirit dave, enjoy VR. 

Jarmo, love the gallery by the way.

:( Come on man ... no need for that.  If you don't tap your foot to a few of those tunes, you're soul-less.  You know you like some of them... :)

x

it works for the entire hip hop generation.
lame or not, their bank balance isn't complaining.

True. But, as a musician, I have no repect for their lack of artistic integrity.

IMO a tasteful well done cover in no way lacks artistic integrity.    corny cheesy shitty ones do.

I haven't heard the VR cover to judge.

I bought Contraband. Didn't bother to do the same with Libertad...

The major reason was because I went to the VR gig here and I didn't like the new songs at all. Tried to listen online to the new songs and the only ones I liked (tho not as much as Set Me Free, Slither or You Got No Right) were Messages and Psycho Killer.

I think Contraband had the curiosity and expectations about the band. Libertad didn't and the songs were not an improvement from the previous record. That's the reason it flopped, I guess.

Sorry if it offended anyone.

I just think that artists who keep doing the same over and over again tend to be boring.


Even Izzy, who's a pretty traditional rock n' roll artist, mixes his stuff up with reggae here and there.



/jarmo

Even tho I like Libertad I completely agree with your main point. It isn't too different from what the guys in VR have done in the past. It would be nice to see something with a little more edge and taking more of a risk as long as it still rocks. I guess they figure this is the stuff that's worked before so....

Yeah ... but I'll be honest ... it's his worst stuff! lol :)

ahh you shouldn?t have said it here... it?s quite dangerous you know?  ;)

I don't hate Libertad, I actually still think it is better than most stuff out, but I think it was a bit too generic.   Like basically every song is about a girl, except for maybe Last Fight, and For A Brother, and GOTD.   Just about every song has that interlude at about 2 mins in.   I also think songs like Pills Demons and Etc. sound like Rolling Stones, and For a Brother sounds like Zeppelin on the Slash solo.   I remember them saying they were trying to make their own Physical Graffitti but I didn't think they meant it literally.   I guess overall, it seems a bit uninspired considering all the time they took to make it.   Probably could have used some more variety. 

However I've always felt that their best work was stuff that they didn't do for albums such as Negative Creep( i know it's a cover), Come on Come In, Messages,  Psycho Killer cover, and even Set Me Free which was done for a soundtrack before it was on Contraband. 

i'd agree, they need to be pushed to achieve their potential.

i like the album, mainly the songs like pills demons etc where they venture out of their comfort zone a little, makes it more interesting.

Libertad gets no radio airplay where I live.  Yet they still play Slither and the crappy ballad.

I think that has TONS to do with the poor sales.  People aren't hearing new songs that remind them to go out and buy the new album. 

I think SBQM was an awful choice for a single + video. I wasn't impressed at all when I heard it, and when I picked up the whole album and gave it a couple of spins I wondered; why in the name of god they didn't choose Last Fight or American Man as the first single. That was the first mistake they did IMO.

Ines, after realizing your hottness, I cannot reply the same anymore to your comments.  I am star struck.

it flopped because essentially it is a STP album...its completely vocally driven with the guitars in the background...its not suprising because they used STPs old producer, who has no idea how to record guitars...im sorry but when you have SLash in the band the guitars should not be in the background...i cant even fucking hear the guitar in alot of the songs...its sounds like a distorted early 90's mess...they had to record guitars like that in the early 90's because most guys simply could not play...but slash can....its just really weak...contarband was like a kick in the balls....this album just sucks...

I see some similarities to Libertad and Audioslave's second album Out of Exile.  I remember hearing Out of Exile and thinking, man this is really soft, a completely different direction from the other album.   As much as I'm for experimentation, I would rather prefer them to just do what works.   I would have prefered another Contraband in the same kind of style.

I don't know, but it's happening with most of the old rockers, take "black rain" from Ozzy, I loved the album and it sold poorly too... On the other hand we have the illegal downloads fuckin' with everybody on the business...

Yea I remember when it leaked like a week or two before, and I felt really bad for them.? ?I'm guessing here, but I'm sure it cost them at least 5,000 - 10,000 units opening week, which probably comes down to a few thousand dollars in losses for the band.?

Yeah, but i though it was the actual bad who decided to prieview the record, not that it leaked.

Let that be a lesson to them....... :rant:

1. it sounds like pop-alternative and the guitars have no punch.? contraband with its flaws blows it out of the water...the riffs sound uninspired, like they just put them together the night before.

2. the schtick of "its a supergroup" wore off...supergroups generally dont work...they look good on paper but when put together just dont seem to work out.

3. no signature slash...I think alot of people came to the band expecting some hard rock coming from 3 guys from GNR. but it sounds alternative/stp...sure with Josh Todd or Baz, they wouldve sounded more "80s" or closer to what they sounded like in GNR, but then again it wouldve given them more longterm success.


I like scott, but its clear why they got him at the time. he was still a relative big name, and with his voice/persona could appeal to the alt crowd...its worn off.

as ive said before...axl Overthinks the music and doesnt put it out..VR underthinks the music and puts anything out...which is furhter proof why these guys need eachother..i know its a dead horse. but Axl pushes slash to play better...and vice versa, they push Axl to actually release music and leave the songs be..

Got to disagree with that, Bach would've never, and I mean ever afforded them any opportunity for staying power.

Pretty much sums up the sad state of things.

He would have if the songs were great.....

Why do you think that?  Because Baz has the stigma of being associated with the 80's metal scene?

If so, do you think that factored into the decision to go with Weiland over Baz?

Ali

bad trendy music also flops..
libertad is a great example

 

That and the perception of him in general.


Most definitely. 

That said, I don't think Bach ever had a chance at landing the gig let alone finishing 2nd in the running behind Weiland.

Great songs wouldn't/couldn't even overcome the inclusion of Bach in todays business of music.

While I don't disagree, I think that it sucks that like Axl, people think of the perception of Baz and not of his talent, which is tremendous.  It's shit, to be more blunt.

If Baz really had no chance at landing the gig, then truthfully, they should've never even brought him in.  It was a waste of everyone's time.

Ali

He dug his own grave on that, he created the image and the perception isn't likely to change.



I have no idea how the audition process went, I would assume they gave him a shot despite his baggage hoping for the best then realized there was no way it would work once they heard the results.

Baz did help to create his own image, certainly.  But, musical talent makes records and not perceptions or images.  I wish more people would realize that because it is true.

I'm sure they gave him a shot, but how open-minded they were going into the audition is something only the band will ever know.  I hope it was a legit shot because Baz's talent warrants that.

Ali

Sebastian Bach is truly awful. That new song of his they play on the radio occasionally is also truly awful. I for one am glad that VR didn't go for him. I can dig Skid Row, but that's nostalgia talking, not quality.

Horses for courses, etc.

This from a review of Angel Down from Glide Magazine

When Velvet Revolver was forming, Slash gave Bach a tryout but canned the idea, saying that the sessions sounded too much like Skid Row.  Jeez, what was he shooting for, Collective Soul?  Because that?s the thing ? if Bach?s the singer, it?s Skid Row.

yea, bach and skid row go hand-in-hand.      skid row sucks so bad without him.

I'm not that big a fan of VR, or STP, but I feel compelled to speak up when someone has no idea what they are talking about. First off, Dean DeLeo is a great guitarist who can hold his own with Slash. Second, the guitars on the STP albums are as upfront as you could want them to be. Have you ever heard Sex Type Thing? No? How about Interstate Love Song? Really - you never heard that one either? Interestingly, there are more guitars in either of those songs than there are in Yesterdays, and large portions of Estranged, or November Rain. Third point, Contraband was produced by Josh Abraham - the guy who produced Linkin Park, and various lesser known numetal acts - who absolutely does not know more about recording guitars for a rock band than Brendan O'Brien who produced actual rock albums for Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and STP. Please do your research.

Coming from a  guy who loves vr! Oh the irony....

^ I fail to see any irony in anything there...

Maybe because the guy who likes VR was talking about quality? :P

At least the irony wasn't lost on everyone!  ;D