Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Basketball is on it's way.... What are your thoughts on the new season?

As far as Toronto is concerned, it doesn't appear that the referee scandal has decreased interest in the sport since we may be looking at 40 sell-outs.  I just picked up tickets to see Phoenix and the Lakers.... hopefully injuries won't prevent me from seeing the superstars.

How do you think Boston will fair with the new "big three"?  I'm confident that Toronto takes the division and I could see Chicago finishing on top of the East at the end of the regular season.  As for the West..... well, Dallas should have motivation this year.  The Lakers?  They will be a mess.  As will the Knicks.

I'm getting excited.   : ok:

Eazy, I'm just not excited about the NBA anymore.  :(

When I think of the NBA that I followed when I was growing up, you just couldn't beat it.  The league is a mess nowadays.

And I honestly think they should disallow zone defenses.  I think the game really slowed down when they implemented that rule.

I'll admit the game isn't at it's peak right now... but it's not absolutely terrible.? I still can't wait for things to get rolling.

The 3 stars in Boston alone should be enough to tune in and see what happens... You can check out how much the drama in NY and LA is going to affect the teams... How Dallas is going to rebound from it's playoff collapse... the Suns are always entertaining.... and that draft class of 2003 (Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Wade) are all starting to get in a groove which should be awesome to watch.? I think ticket sales and viewing have been increasing for the past handful of years, too.

Did your interest gradually fade once they started allowing zones?? I don't think teams use them too often... and a team like Phoenix certainly isn't fazed when they're putting up 100+ points a game.

There's a rumor that Gary Payton may make the "Big 3" into the "Big 4".

We'll see.

I'm a long time (and recently suffering) Celtics fan.  I'm pretty happy with what they've done in the off season....now we have to see what happens during the season.  If they are as good as their potential is.....they should be able to run the table in the East.  The west is still MUCH stronger, though...and that's going to prove to be a challenge.

yeah boston looks excitin' .. i'm a heat fan.. mostly cuz of shaq, shame he aint half of what he used to be.. chicago will be dangerous, Big Ben's the man :yes: I still can't stand kobe in lakers :-\ shame about that rookie with his injury or whatever.. and when miami wont win it i root for the cavs : ok:


there it is :hihi:

Yeah, I didn't notice it at the time, but when I look back on things, my interest started fading around 2003 or so. 

Remember in the 90's?  EVERY team was capable of putting up numbers just like Phoenix.  The gameplay was fast and more exciting.  Players these days have forgotten about fundamentals.

The turnover ratio is just horrendous.

I'll admit there are a lot of exciting stories around, but players these days are so fragile.  Look at Ray Allen, he might go down and ruin Boston's chances.

I just think I was spoiled growing up.  Remember the NBA on NBC?  Those were the days!  :hihi:

I think if any of the three go down it will ruin Boston's chances....

I do remember the "good old days", NBA on NBC was awesome... Today may not be AS good, but there are some great rising stars.  Maybe you just need to find the inner kid in you.   :hihi:

Heat deal Walker to T-Wolves, get Davis

Antoine Walker's turbulent time with the Miami Heat is over.

The Heat traded the three-time all-star forward to the Minnesota Timberwolves on Wednesday in a five-player deal that came one day after Miami completed a winless pre-season.

Walker, backup centre Michael Doleac, oft-injured forward Wayne Simien and a conditional first-round draft pick were sent to Minnesota for former Miami swingman Ricky Davis and centre Mark Blount.

The deal gives Miami the third scoring option it wanted in Davis. The Heat will try to fit him in alongside Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade - the 2006 finals MVP who'll miss a few more weeks while recovering from knee and shoulder surgeries.

Walker helped the Heat win the 2006 NBA title but hasn't always had the easiest time dealing with Heat coach Pat Riley's strict conditioning standards. He was briefly suspended last year because his body-fat measurement wasn't within team limits, and he came to training camp this month not in the shape Riley wanted.

The Heat are in trouble.... A first round sweep in last years playoffs.... An injured D-Wade.... An aging Shaq who can't carry a team by himself.... A handful of free agents that took off over the summer.... and now an 0-7 record in the preseason.

I know preseason means nothing, but still, the outlook isn't very good for the team who were NBA champions a few years back.   :o

tip off tonight

I'll be attending the Raps home opener tomorrow... can't wait.  Boston will be in town on Sunday, can't wait to see how they look on the court in the regular season!

shaq should have retired after the heat won the championship :-\

... a loss to Seattle WITH Wade.... you may be right.

The Celtics are 7-0, best start in 35 years, SOMEONE here must be paying attention?

celtics killed the knicks last night

Shaq to PHX

The Phoenix Suns today acquired four-time NBA Champion Shaquille O?Neal from the Miami Heat in exchange for forward Shawn Marion and guard Marcus Banks, pending completion of physical examinations by both teams.
?We?re thrilled to add a player and person of Shaquille?s quality to our roster,? President of Basketball Operations and General Manager Steve Kerr said. ?We believe this addition strengthens our team. We thank Shawn and Marcus for their contributions to our team. Shawn in particular has been a tremendous player for this organization the past eight-and-a-half years and his impact both on and off the court in Phoenix will not be forgotten.?

Ya I seen that...I'm not really sure who wins there....I mean the players do...Marion wanted out and i'm sure Shaq couldnt be happier going to a winning team...but team wise you look at the names and assume Phoenix won...but Shaqs gettilg pretty old...It'll be interesting though

shaq is my alltime favourite and will always be..

..but i think miami won on this one.. thinking about the future shaq is as said getting old, this season; phx will continue to win so nothing much will change for them, but miami might lose a little less this season, and win a little more the next

kinda cool with 2 new twin towers though with amare and shaq (if shaq can play :-\)

I've always been a huge Shaq fan myself from day one (I still have my Orlando Magic's jersey), but I agree with you.  It was super-wise for Miami to get rid of him, unfortunately Shaq has run out of Diesel and he should have hung it up two years ago.  It's not like he needs the money or another title.  I'd rather have seen Shaq go out at the top of his game, then see him pissing around as a novelty act. 

I dont think of Shaq as a novelty act.not yet anwyay( he is a far cry from Emmit Smith and Jerry Rice)...Phoenix is taking a big risk..HOWEVER if it pays off they are going to look brilliant.....I dont really sweat them getting rid of Marion, because they have 3 or 4 players on that team that bring exactly what Marion does anyway...they NEEDED a big man...and everyone knows that a MOTIVATED Shaq is very dangerous.....Im a Utah Jazz fan and i thought acquiring Korver was GENIUS and nobody talked about it...well they are 16-2 since they got Korver and have won 10 in a row...i am also not happy to see Shaq back in the West

Phoenix just blew their shot at a championship!  :rofl:

I love Steve Kerr, but that was a dumb move.  Shaq is going to slow down their high octane offense, miss crucial free throws, and spend more time on the injured list.

Shaq and Amare are the Twin Towers?

The real Twin Towers are Gasol and Bynum.  ;)

true it will slow down their high octane offense...and their high octane offense is great for winning regular season games and selling tickets...but you need a half court game to win the championship...no high octane offense has ever won the NBA title without a half court game....Nash isnt getting any younger...it is a move they had to make...Marion did not offer anything to them that they dont have with their other players at that position

Getting that old potato sack certainly won't help them!

Phoenix has to beat the Spurs.

They weren't going to do it with their current line up....not in the playoffs.

Shaq provides just the presence they need down low to shut down Duncan.....if Shaq decides to play defense, that is.

Offensively, anything he adds is gravy.  They have 4 other players who can run the floor....one of them being the guy who's played center for them most of the year.  Shaq will run trailer....but when the game slows down to a grindfest (something the Spurs excel at doing in the playoffs), it gives them a go to option down low when speed isn't nearly the advantage it is in the open floor.

I'm not saying it was the greatest move ever, but I can see their reasoning behind it.  Much of "how good" it turns out to be is going to depend on Shaq, obviously.  How injured he is and how willing he is to play ball (if you'll excuse the pun) by taking a reduced roll on offense for most of the regular season and stepping up when the grind outs happen.

That's wishful thinking at best.  He can't do anything in the post anymore.  He is way too slow.

Being a Phoenix fan, I was appalled when I first heard this.


Not now


Marion is a malcontent, Hurting team chemistry, he is only averaging 16ppg and they need an inside presence.


What this essentially does is allow Phoenix to play two styles.

They have their running lineup:

Nash
Barbosa
Bell
Diaw/Hill
Stoudemire


And when the game slows down they can go with a great half Court team now

PG Nash
SG Bell
SF Hill
PF Stoudemire
C Shaq


Shaq will protect Nash against Cheap Shots, He is a presence against Parker and Ginobli driving in uncontested. He can bang and tire out Duncan also allowing Stoudemire who is a great weakside help defender/shotblocker to come over and help.

Shaq also makes the same cash as Marion and Banks. Shaq brings in way more money with ratings, Merchandise and ticket sales.

they were losing Marion anyway so they got rid of a bad contract in Banks.


So really, this was a great trade for both teams.

Shaq will also be motivated and ready to prove people wrong.

By the time he gets back up the court, the Suns will have shot the ball.  :hihi:

And it's going to hinder their FG percentage with only 4 guys on offense.

The All-Star game won't be the same without Shaq there to entertain... but at least the Big Aristotle is headed back to the playoffs!

I am going to miss the run-and-gun style of the Suns and the outside chance that style of play could win a championship, but it just wasn't going to happen.  Their record this year against the contenders (and the TWolves for some reason?) have shown something was just slightly "off" about their chemistry.  I'm conviced Shaq can still bring it, especially when the playoffs roll around.  The injury has prevented him from playing the minutes he usually logs, but he can still draw a double team and shoot almost 60% from the field.

... and who wanted to see one of the greatest players of all time go out on a team that has lost 19 of 20 games?

I thought the Lakers/Suns series the past two playoffs were the most entertaining, imagine what it would be like now with Gasol, Grant Hill and a decent Andrew Bynum thrown into the mix... Not to mention facing Kobe off against Shaq.

Hopefully the third time will be the charm for Los Angeles.  :hihi:

Its just a total misconception that Shaq cant get up and down the court.

they had Kurt Thomas last year and he did very good.


Playoffs are about executing in the half court. That has been Phoenix' achilles heel. Now they have a guy that allows them to be better in a half court setting.

He also gives them a huge presence in the middle that will help clog up the driving lanes.

Not really.  When he was with the Lakers, Parker and Ginobili always had their way with him.  And that was four years ago.

He wont help stop them completely but he is a huge upgrade in the middle. Now with Amare back at PF, he can help defend from the weak side, block more shots and get more rebounds.

That's really the only upside to this deal, having Amare at his natural position.

Thanks CheapJules, for bringing back this thread! 

after a couple of days reading/thinking..

maybe phx will come out better after all.. (if shaq can play..) and when shaq is finished with his career, get emeka or dwight howard  ;D

Also, many of u need to realize that the last couple years Shawn Marion has came up VERY VERY Small in the playoffs. His production has really dropped off in the playoffs.

I think the Lakers won big. The Suns will find out that Shaq does not have much left. And the stupidest trade of all was the Mavs trading half the team, plus 2 first rounders (2008 and 2010), plus cash, for a fucking 35 year guard who whines more than GNR fans ( :hihi:) The Mavs are the big losers, followed  by the Suns. Lakers and Spurs are winners: Lakers for a steal, Spurs for not panicking and doing something stupid.

Comments?

comments?

well u coulda used the nba thread : ok:

That Mavs trade didn't go through.  Devean George blocked it to retain his "Larry Bird" rights.

kidd is still an allstar but not for many more years, devin harris can become a big point guard of his generation IMO..

but there's still a week until the trading deadline or something right?

I have a feeling he will "unblock" this trade because he's pretty much going to be run out of town. Did you see the game he had after the news of him blocking the trade came out? He got boo'd so much, was 0-11, I seriously doubt that team is happy at him blocking that trade and those fans are going to give him a really really hard time each home game they have. Obviously they got to him because he missed every shot of that game, all in all expect the trade to go through

It's because Devean George secretly works for the Lakers.  :hihi:

It's the smartest move for him to make to block the trade so I don't think he cares if the fans boo him out of town.  He loses a lot of leverage and money if he lets the trade go through, so I think he'll be able to block out the fans.  The deal could still get done without him losing his rights though.

I'm a non-conformist.  : ok:

How  about Lakers Vs Celtics in the 2008 NBA finals?

I wish, I hope. David Stern surely does hope too since I dont think NBA has gotten good ratings since the bulls won their last title.

Right now the lakers having added Gasol to their roster sure gives them an edge over any team in the Western Conference. Before Gasol, the Lakers were 30 and 16. With the spaniard the lakers have gone 5 - 1. Gasol will make things much easier for the lakers in every sense of the game. Not only he's a consistent guy who drops in 20 points and grabs 9 boards per game, but he also understands the triangle offense as meant to be run.

Gasol can pass the ball well also as he reads the offense like no big man in the NBA. When Bynum comes back, the lakers will be a tremendous force as Pau will have a bit more freedom to play, not only in the paint, but also outside. Also, Kobe seems to be a bit more relieved as he didnt even have to score big points in the first two games having Gasol running the offense with him. On this note, Kobe and Pau seem like they've played together for an eternity...did you guys see those pick and rolls?

The only problem I see with the lakers is the defensive end. Gasol doesnt read defense as well as offense. He usually has a few blocks per game but that's normally cause he's just a big fella down the paint. When a small forward or a shooting guard cuts to the basket, Gasol is usually miles away. I hope the Lakers work on that. Also, during some stages, the lakers have ruined  +10 point differences in less than two minutes due to concentration lapses. Kobe and Fisher are not the best defenders in the NBA, so that leaves a lot of work for the big guys inside to cover. Lamar Odom and Radmanovic are not the strongest defenders either...I'm hoping Bynum comes back as soon as possible as the lakers defense now is weak.

As for the Suns...well, the did move quick when the lakers traded pau in, but I dont really think Shaq has it anymore. The guy is 36 years old, has sat out more than he's played in the past few years...I don't think his contribution will be key to this team. On this regard, it may even be more disavantageous for the Suns to execute their offense with a liability like Shaq. Shaquille is not Kurt Thomas...is a but heavier. On the positive side, Shaq has won 4 NBA titles...experience and motivation to do it again are there. We'll see..

The Mavs are the eternal contenders but they just blow it year after year. I don't think they have a chance...team seems has gotten a little bit worse year in year out. And the Spurs, well..the spurs are the spurs. They always have a mediocre regular season but when the playoffs start, their game gets way better. The Spurs will always be contenders as long as they mantain this line up. They are the toughest, roughest competitors of all...

And the Eastern conference? It's always a mistery. The Celtics can pull it off...but that's about it. Orlando is a strong team, but if they played in the Western Conference, they wouldnt win more than 30 matches per year. Toronto is a well balanced team, not to mention, the best point guard in the conference plays there (Calder?n) but they need someone big to help Bosh inside.

Kobe's got a pretty serious injury, don't know exactly how it'll effect his play but that can't be a good sign for the Lakers.

One thing isn't a mystery:  The Detroit Pistons.  They are the class of the East... like the Spurs, they just go out there and win.  They've got the playoff (and championship experience), they've won 10 straight games, they're only 3 back of Boston and they fly in under the radar for some reason.

In Gilbert Arenas' latest blog he takes a shot at everyone who thinks Calderon should be in the all-star game.... Raps fans aren't too happy about it.

Gilbert Arenas is full of it. Really.

He talks about how "This is an All Star game, C'mon" and Calderon shouldn't be there cause he is a nobody..and then he mentions how great David West is!! David who???

I dont remember, but didnt Arenas had some kind of feud with Calderon last year? It does ring a bell...

Back up point guards who play 12 minutes per match could have a good assist/turnover ratio, but Calderon is playing 38 minutes day after day since TJ is out. Pretty hard to mantain if you ask me. If you look at the guy's numbers since TJ's injury, Calderon is on 16 points and 10 assists (now his numbers are 13 and 9). He's now 5th in assists per game amongst the entire league..bearing in mind he only averages 31 minutes per game (throughout the entire season).

Sure Calderon is not as spectacular as Chris Paul, Nash, Iverson...but he is consistant and makes his team play better. An ALL STAR game should be expose not only the most famous players but the BEST players this season! I believe Calderon should've been picked..did Billups or Hamilton really played better than Calderon this season??

Gilbert Arena's should talk...he is no household name either....if he was out west he might not even make the All-Star team...I know damn well that Deron Williams should be on it, and I would take him on my team over Arena's anyday of the week

I hope Stern lets Kobe skip the All-Star game, so he can rest his pinkie.

I would love to see a Lakers/Celtics Finals match up.  But as Eazy said, the Pistons will decimate the Celtics when given the opportunity.  The Celtics are very overrated, and they used up all their bullets in the first half of the year.

I can understand how people might think the C's are overrated but I don't necessarily agree with it.  They're 41-9, best record in the league.  Sure they play in the East, but they're a perfect 16-0 against the Western Conference.  They've split with the Pistons so far.  Detroit is a solid team but they've folded in the playoffs to inferior squads the last 2 seasons (Miami and Cleveland).  The C's have withstood injuries to Ray Allen and notable KG recenlty, going 7-2 without him.  When he was healthy KG was averaging the lowest number of minutes played (35.1) since his rookie season so he should be fresh down the stretch.  And remember this was pretty much a brand new team coming into the season.  I don't care how good the "big 3" are, there had to be an adjustment period for them and the rest of the team.  I'd say they can only get more comfortable playing with each other down the stretch.  So I find it hard to believe that they've used all their bullets here in the first half.  We'll see though.  They've got a long, tough west coast swing starting off the 2nd half.

He's also in the top 3 of field goal % for point guards, no question in my mind that he should be a reserve.  I don't understand how Wade starts in the all-star game when his team hasn't even won 10 games.

Also...

That was one hell of a DUNK CONTEST!!!  Best (or maybe better than) Vince Carter in 2000!

(http://www.nba.com/media/allstar2008/dhoward3_627_080216.jpg)

I agree that was one heckuva show put on by Dwight Howard.  The style, the showmanship, the creativity.  But let's be honest, that Superman dunk wasn't really a dunk.  He threw the ball through the hoop because he didn't have enough air to reach the rim.  He's just lucky it went in.  I'm sure most couldn't tell until seeing the replay, but upon further review, not so sure it deserved a 50 for that reason alone.  Gerald Green did a pretty good job defending his title too.  Too bad that's all he'll be known for in his NBA career.

I wasn't even planning on watching the dunking contest as it has pretty much been a snooze fest the past few years, but I was just skipping through channels and came upon it and decided nothing better was on so i'd give it a try.. and WOW. I was hooked from the start, Howard made it enjoyable to watch and very entertaining. I thought that Green's "birthday cake" dunk should have recieved more points as it was very creative and looked much better on replay then in live action.

I agree he didn't really "dunk" the ball on his Superman jump, but it was still awesome regardless. And really creative on his part, loved that when he took off the jersey to reveal his Superman outfit, Howard is the new Clark Kent! He def. deserved to win, as he did last year too, and i'm looking forward to seeing him in it next year to defend his title as slam dunk champion.  :peace:

Yeah, Howard really was great the last 2 years.  Gerald Green too.  I agree the birthday cake dunk didn't get enough props from the judges.  The dude's head was above the rim to blow out that candle.  The dunk contest has been revived these past 2 years.  I'd say, what more can they do?  But they came up with some impressive stuff this year, so there's still hope.

good lord, it looks as if he took off from the mid court line, of course he threw it down. Who could be above the rim for 10 seconds?

I thuoght his third dunk was the best though.. when he passed himself then tapped back to the backboard and dunk it with the other hand

mavs got kidd after all

Dallas being my fav team since 2001, I am thrilled with this trade.

Devin Harris is quick and a good defender but he has no leadership and limited passing skills. He makes noone better therefore Dirk has to work very very very hard to get good looks.

Jason Kidd is a walking triple double and will make everything easy for Dallas. Dirk can concentrate on playing now and not being a leader or playmaker.

Kidd brings toughness, game control and great overall skill to this team.

The fact Dallas didn't lose Jerry Stackhouse or Devean George is also a plus.

People get pointing at how they gave up Diop, but he wasn't playing much anyway with the emergence of Brandon Bass and plus, I think getting Kidd for Harris and Diop is a steal.

I bet Dampier even becomes more productive on the offensive end with Kidd running the Point.

Jason Kidd
Eddie Jones
Josh Howard
Dirk Nowitzki
Erick Dampier

Thats a damn strong formidable team right there

Stackhouse
Jason Terry
Brandon Bass
Devean George

Off the bench

pretty damn deep!

What we should do now is go sign Gary Payton to play backup PG.

^ I don't disagree (as a Mavs fan myself), but I do think that they gave up too much. I especially do not believe in mortgaging the future for a window of opportunity that spans at most this year and next. Kidd will make everyone better, but whether the Mavs can win it all, I am not convinced. I sort of have doubts about Avery Johnson. He was out-coached the last two years in the playoffs by Riley and then Nelson, both with inferior teams. So whether the team is good enough to overcome that shortcoming remains to be seen.

Hey D, where do you live in Dallas metroplex?

... and another blockbuster trade goes through!  It seems people are getting a little more excited about the NBA after shuffling around Garnett, Shaq, Gasol and Kidd.

Mavs fans correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they pass on signing Nash because he would be too old by the end of his contract?  and now they've traded for an aging point guard?

 :confused:

Can't wait to watch a double-header of Raps/Magic and Lakers/Suns tomorrow night.

^ the main worry was that he would break down--he is small and fragile--and would not be able to finish the contract.
You have to admit, Cuban made a huge huge mistake in letting Nash go.

Absolutely.  Even if he's useless at the end of the contract, he would still have trade value as an expiring contract.

I can't believe Isiah Thomas just said he wasn't expecting to do anything for the trade deadline approaching.  What a piece of shit.  The guy has basically run this team into the ground and morale in the Knicks camp is non-existant.  It's time to ditch Marbury and work towards building a winning team.  If Isiah survives this year with either one of his jobs, the Knicks deserve to rot at the bottom.

They lost by 40....  :rofl:

Awesome game between the Suns/Lakers!  Did you see the size of the bump on Raja Bell's head?

Big Ben to the Cavs.. awesome :yes:

The strong get stronger...

I really am a fan of what the GM's are doing this season....instead of wasting time with talented line-ups that will never win a championship these gm's are actually taking RISKS!! I love it....

^Mavs lose again in a close one, first to Spurs a couple of nights ago, now to the Lakers today in OT. They mortgaged their future to win this year, but it is not looking good. They just don't have that killer instinct to finish games.

No my friend, they don't have the right coach to take them deep into the playoffs.

^You very well could be right. I am beginning to have my doubts.

For sure dude.  They lost to the Heat.  I couldn't believe they isolated Wade.

And last years collapse against the Warriors.  I think AJ wasted the Mavs best years.

Avery is just a very bad coach. i am so fucking annoyed at him right now.

how can you leave the best pg of the last 10 years out of the game during the last 35 secs of a game?  :confused:

however the mavs didnt lose the finals because of him, they lost them because of the refs and their overprotective attitude towards DWade :rant:

i still hope this team can get it together and win it all the way this year :peace:

wow! what a game that was tonight. MVP BABY  ;D ;D

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2245539&page=1

shaq's such a fucking class act :yes: :hihi:

I read gilbert arenas blog yesterday where he mentioned that everyone that ever played with shaq said that he's the nicest guy ever and best and all that, and gilbert thought it sucked that no one said that about him :rofl:

:hihi:

The NBA Stinker of the year tonight:

Knicks vs Heat.

God....we could use that game to torture terrorists, and those suspected of being terrorists.  To hell with waterboarding!

That would have been a great game....in 1997.  :hihi:

The Lakers are in the top seed again, and Bynum is getting ready to come back.

Life is good.  :smoking:

Does anybody believe in the Celtics yet?  All I've heard all season is how the West is best and the Pistons are the top team in the East.  Even though the C's are 5 games ahead of the Pistons and have pretty much rolled most of the Western conference.  Now they've beaten the Spurs and Rockets (snapping the streak) in back to back nights without Ray Allen.  Anyone ready to admit that they're a pretty good team?

TOO funny.

I was just coming to post the SAME thing.

Go Celts.

And what the rest of the league should be worried about is this:

If the Celts have home court through the WHOLE playoffs...EC and Finals....it is going to be a VERY bad thing for the rest of the league.  Their home record is second only to Utah's in the league.  I'm telling you, if the Celts have the leprechauns on their side for the playoffs, they are going to be TOUGH to beat for the title.

Another thing to consider.  I was watching ESPN First Take this morning.  By the way they STILL think the Pistons are better.  Anyhow, they brought up the fact of how difficult it is gonna be to come out of the West.  And with that being said, whoever does survive to face the C's/Pistons could be spent by then.

And both the C's and the Pistons should, ultimately, have an easier "ride" to the finals.  The Eastern Conference Championship might be tough, but I don't think anyone forsees the Celts having an issue with, say, ATLANTA in the first round.

I think those who insist Detroit is better than the C's are just haters.  C's have won the season series, have the better record both IN the eastern conference, and against western conference teams.  I'm not sure, when you look at their body of work, how you can conclude Detroit is better.  They're younger...more durable maybe, but not better. Not this year.

Yeah, I don't get that argument either. They went so far to say the Pistons were playing better than the Celtics right now.  Haven't the C's won 12 of 13 or so?  They were also saying they weren't convinced the Celtics would be as good in a 7 game series.  Citing that they're out to prove to people that they're the best team in the NBA on a nightly basis, that they can get up to play the Spurs one night and the Rockets the next. I don't see why that would change come playoff time.  Apparently they think the C's are only concerned with having the best record in the regular season.  Mission accomplished.

My doctor said Mylanta.

Personally, I never pay attention to what those so-called "experts" have to say.

In the beginning of this thread, I stated that I had grown bored with the NBA.  This season has brought me back.  There are so many great storylines, so many great teams, it will be fun to watch!

Ditto.

Now, to be COMPLETELY honest, it's probably as much because the Celts are good again....and I'm a HUGE Celtics fan from back in the day.

But I, too, found myself drawn back to NBA ball after a VERY long absence.  I watched College ball a lot more (and, to be truthful, still prefer it....as there are too many 1 on 1 breakdowns, and not enough defense, in the NBA) over the past...say...10 years or so.

But this season has drawn me back.  The Celts being good is, like I said, a good part of it.  But how competitive the league is, overall, is another.  There's so many good teams, the Eastern Conference isn't an afterthought this year and might actually have some say in who wins the league.  All of it combines to, for me, create the best NBA season since the 90's, for me.

For old times sake.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDHJBbm9ZEs&NR=1

THAT'S how I was brought up on basketball.

Mavs trade for Jason Kidd (which I opposed from the beginning) is looking worse and worse by the day. Mavs are 0-for against good teams since Kidd arrived. Not his fault particularly, it could be the coach who seems not to know how to use point guards. Nonetheless, with Dirk down and the team playing mediocre ball, the Mavs will be lucky to reach the playoffs, which is just ridiculous given the talent they have on that team.

 :hihi:

It's also kind of ridiculous that a team from the West might reach 50 wins and miss the playoffs, while the Hawks or Nets get into the first round.  I agree, it looks like Dallas might be on the outside looking in, especially after that loss to the Nuggets.

The NBA is so competitive right now, I'm paying it MUCH more attention than March Madness... a 22 game winning streak?  Kobe, Lebron and Paul duking it out for MVP?  The Celtics jumping from worst in the league to best?  The top 6 teams in the west seperated by only 3 games?  Superman at the slam dunk contest? Isiah Thomas keeping his job?  What a way for the NBA to bounce back from that crooked Ref!

How are Western coaches supposed to predict playoff matchups?    :o

Went to the season finale last night at Staples.  8)

I think the Lakers will bring the Larry O'Brien trophy back home.

Any predictions?

I am so happy my Dallas Mavs got the best possible first round matchup against New Orleans.

I still feel NO are a fraud. they won those games but outside of Chris Paul, I feel they are extremely overrated. dallas bitchsmacked them tonight as Jason Kidd severely outplayed Paul.

Kidd is getting it going at the proper time and we are winning it all!


Lakers will fold. I still dont trust Kobe, he starts pouting and his team goes to shit.

Denver are a scary matchup for LA. if AI and Melo get it going, they can beat LA.

Melo will show up drunk and A.I. will take 50 shots a game, leading to a Laker sweep.

Lakers are the worst matchup for Denver as the Lakers have swept the Nuggets this year by an average margin of 16.3 points.    Gasol played in exactly zero of these games.

I think Lakers will make the finals; but without Bynum & Ariza healthy they won't beat Boston.

im glad the Jazz tanked it tonight vs. the Spurs...id rather play Houston without homecourt than the Spurs with it...

Outside of the Raps/Magic series... I'm most excited to watch the SUNS/SPURS, I would love for that one to go to 7 games.  I'd also love to see the Suns go up against the Lakers in the West finals.

That makes two of us.

Everyone in L.A. wants to see Kobe OWN Shaq and the team that took us out in the first round two years in a row.

Hey D: how 'bout them Mavs? did you see them fold in the second half? Everything they did right in the first half they stopped doing. It was as if Avery said at half time, ok guys, stop attacking the basket and let Chris Paul run wild.

This team is too inconsistent to make a serious run and I predict Cuban will blow up the team during the off season. I also would not be surprised to see him fire Avery. Something is just wrong with the Mavs and if it is not the players.....

The Suns/Spurs game was ILL!  It will go down as one of the all-time great games in the history of the NBA.

Agent Zero is a LOSER.

The Mavs will get bounced in the first round again.  Coach Johnson will be fired if they don't make the Finals, which they won't.

The Lakers are looking gooooooooooood.  I loved the D-U-I chants for Mr. Anthony.  Iverson's thuglike behavior came through again.  That folks, isn't how you advance in the playoffs. 

Boston did their thing, although the 76ers victory over Detroit was quite surprising.

Now, now Sir.

You show my Nuggets some respect ;)

just for you, we are gonna let them win just one home game before we eliminate them from the playoffs  :hihi:

U can look at the Phoenix/SA game one of two ways.

Phoenix fucked up and cost themselves a chance at a title.

OR


SA had to have every miracle in the universe to happen just to win GAME 1, a game they should win by a mere 2pts in double OT

Think about it:


Duncan had the game of his career.


Shaq didnt play any significant first half minutes.

Amare fouls out in OT 1

SA hit two miracle three pointers because D'Antoni is too stupid to foul and make it a FT contest between SA and Steve Nash.

So, I kind of think Phoenix are a better team. SA squeaked by in a game where everything went against Phoenix.



Onto Dallas:

Avery Johnson is the worst adjustments coach in the NBA. he has a plan A and when it goes to shit, he is unable to come up with a plan b.

Chris paul was shut down and doing nothing. Byron Scott adjusts, Avery has no answer.


Very stupid of David West to touch Dirk's face like that. I have a feeling Dirk will go off in game 2.

People get too excited in the playoffs.

A home team winning the first game on their home floor is MEANINGLESS! they are suppose to win game 1.

So, NO have done nothing to show that its a lock they are gonna win. If Dallas wins game 2 everyone will change their tune.

Houston beat us two straight AT Dallas a few years ago and we took the next 2 at Houston and went on to win in 7.

So I am confident we will beat New Orleans. Our team went ice cold in the 2nd half. that won't happen too many times.\

New Orleans have yet to win in Dallas, so really, we just have to win one in New Orleans, whether that be game 2, game 5 or game 7 and hold serve at home.

Lebron James is huge.  It looks like Washington shouldn't have mouthed off before the first game was played.

The team that wins game one goes on to the next round 80-90% of the time.

get the brooms out Utah.... :yes:

Those stats are completely  misleading

U have to take into account when it was 3 out of 5

also the NBA has never had this much parity.

So being up 1-0 means nothing in some of these series.

Hell Dallas got up 2-0 on Miami and blew it.


I personally hate insignificant facts.

I mean Hell, why not just make it a one game series if the team who wins game 1 automatically takes it?

U gotta look at that percentage and figure its high cause of what all i said. the 3 out of 5's

Boston vs Atlanta type matchups over the years etc.

I think if the Celts and Lakers match up in the finals......the NBA brass and owners will have a collective "big o".

I also think the Celts and Lakers match up extremely well.  Given that, and the fact the Lakers are a LOT more likely to have a tougher road to the finals out of the West than the Celts are out of the East....I wouldn't be crowning the Lakers quite yet. 

Everyone keeps discounting the Celts...who just keep winning games.  Early on it was "Well, it's luck...they won't keep it up at this pace".  Then it was "wait til they play Detroit".  Then it was "The teams out west will kill 'em this year".  Every pundit has been wrong, and shown the Celts zero respect throughout the season.    They're a quiet, professional bunch (and who ever would have thought Paul Pierce would get THAT label) but don't think for a second that doesn't stick in their craw and motivate them.

Kobe wants to prove he can win one without Shaq.  The Celts want to prove they're legit.  I hope and PRAY the finals come down to those two teams.....Just as it has been in the past, it could be one fo the ages.

So what does everyone think about "the flop heard round the world" last night?

I don't like Coach Adelman, but he is right about letting the players decide games, not bad calls.

That was a PRETTY bad call.  Even Vlade Divac would say that flop was unnecessary.  The referees destroyed what could have been a very competitive series.

Absolutely.  Everyone in the media is crazy about Boston sports these days.  And of course, L.A. is the second largest market in the nation.

ABC would finally have decent ratings for their coverage of the Finals.

Now, I'm not discounting the Celtics one bit.  I think they will waltz right into the Finals, because there really is no competition in the East.  Garnett, Allen, and Pierce are getting it done, and they have a great supporting cast in Rondo, Big Baby etc....

3 and a half hours until tipoff in New Orleans, I can't wait to see Paul do his thing.  8)

damn the mavs got slaughtered today  :beer:

ive never been more proud of Kirilenko....as a lifelong Jazz fan I have an absolute hatred for Houston...and as a fan of unselfish players I have an absolute hatred for Tracy McGrady....I thought it was a great flop....you can tell he used to play with John Stockton.... : ok:

please that series wasnt going to be competitve...Houston is losing both games in Utah anyway...Yao Ming could come back today and thats not going to change....I was thrilled when Utah got Houston...it was like having a first round bye....but hey look at the brightside at least McGrady has someone to blame besides himself...again...he can blame the refs and maybe people will forget how Utah put him on lockdown in both 4th quarters of this series....

Nope, it is well documented that McGrady has scored 1 point in the fourth quarter in those two games COMBINED.

So the Spurs go into Phoenix with a 2-0 lead.

I hope Phoenix can at least make it interesting.  :-\

I think New Orleans is going to sweep Dallas.

Hopefully Toronto can take what they learned today and apply it in Games 3 and 4.

damn you Manu for missing that free throw in the end of the game. made me lose 2 dollars  :rofl:

haha i know..i was saying he was hoping people will forget that...as he throws his team under the bus..he reminds me of Damon Wayans character in the movie "Celtic Pride"...but even Wayans got out of the first round in that movie.. :rofl:

Well, the Celtics won, they go into Atlanta with a 2-0 lead.  Love how Bibby was booed every time he touched the ball, I've always hated him.

The Lakers destroyed Denver.  Lamar didn't even play in the 4th quarter.

Altitude, schmaltitude.  They will take it in 4 games.

5, or 6 ;)

Whatever helps you sleep at night.  :confused:

thats right  :smoking:

So much for the Shaq trade getting the Suns deep into the playoffs!  :rofl:

Looks like Dallas adjusted to play some D and get physical, interesting indeed.

How about Philly?  :o

Pilferk, what happened to the Celtics on Saturday!?!?  :o

Phoenix lives to see another day, but I think San Antonio will take care of them in game 5.

Philly/Detroit is the most competitive matchup.

Dallas is DONE...like Chinese Democracy.

Bring out the brooms in Denver!

Utah should be nice and fresh against the Lakers too.

They looked tired....and EVERYONE had a bad shooting night. LOTS of open looks, but nothing falling.  It happens.

But to be honest....I expected Altanta to take at least one.  We'll see how the Celts respond tonight.

Changes have to happen in Dallas

Avery Johnson has to be gone.

His style of play just doesnt fit our personnel

we need to run with Kidd,dirk and Howard to be successful

^ Mavs need to dump Howard. Let him smoke pot in a different city. He has disappeared from the playoffs and is way too inconsistent. Dirk is the only one showing up. Damp is on vacation too. I agree with D, something has to happen to this team because it is going downhill fast. And that is when the idiot trade for Kidd comes into play, because they gave away two young guards, a decent backup center, and 2 first round draft choices! Plus they cut another young forward to make room for the two non-entities that came with Kidd. The trade for Kidd and what the Mavs gave away will go down in history as the turning point for the Cuban franchise and the Mavs will not recover any time soon, and if they do, Dirk will be old.

The C's are all of a sudden in a dogfight of a series.  I think the whole world (me included) expected them to roll the Hawks, especially after the first 2 games in Boston.  But Atlanta has bounced back nicely and looked like a completely different team at home.  One loss by the C's could've been a mistake, just a slip up.  But 2 straight is the real deal.  The Hawks now believe they belong in the playoffs.  I still expect the C's to prevail but right now it's going 6 at the very least.  Josh Smith was something else tonight, not to mention Joe Johnson.  Though I've gotta say, what kind of defense were the C's playing on Johnson down the stretch?  No offense to JJ, he was great in the 4th but you think they would've stepped up the pressure or double team him or something.  The Hawks just wanted it and deserved it more tonight, getting all the loose balls.  It's back to Boston all square, who'da thunk it.

I haven't bothered to watch any of the Boston/Atlanta series because I figured it was a write off... I just may tune in for Game 5, can't believe it's tied up!

Yeah, what is up with that?  I noticed something was seriously wrong in game 3.  The Hawks made things very interesting, that's for sure!


Didn't think so.  :smoking:

 :smoking:

(http://i28.tinypic.com/34fi7t4.jpg) :smoking:

tHANKZ FRIEND!  :smoking:

2008....YEAR of da LAKerz

 :smoking:

 :peace:

I agree...something's not "right".

The C's completely no showed the 4th q last night.  They were up 10, in complete control of the game....and then just completely disappeared in the 4th.  Lost control of the tempo, let the Hawks gain the crowd back, and that was that.

Next year dude ;)

I can't egg on a guy with your sense of optimism!  : ok:

Go Hornets!

Yeah, it's almost as if the C's bought into the media hype that this wasn't going to be a series.  They cruised in those first 2 games and coasted into Atlanta thinking they could just show up and win.  Doc had a telling comment in his post game press conference yesterday saying how everyone is now saying they'll be fine now that they're going back to Boston.  He said they can't think that way, they have to prove it.  The Celtics are obviously a much better team than the Hawks, but they're a young, hungry bunch with nothing to lose.  And they've been given life.  That can be a dangerous combo if the C's don't make some corrections quickly.

Dallas: OUT

Phoenix: OUT

Phoenix's trade seemed justified (still a bad move IMO) but Dallas just killed themselves with that move.

Houston is trying to make it interesting, and Detroit is warming up.

Kidd run?? he has already proven he is slower than just about every point guard in the western conference....Williams, Nash, Paul, Parker, and Alston can all blow right by him...his time has passed...expect him to call it a career in the not to distant future...dumb move by the Mavs for getting him...

Mavs fired Avery Johnson today!
First of many changes coming.

its about time...i would have fired him after the Warriors series

Actually its not such a horrible move getting Kidd. Next season is the last year of his contract and he is making 21 million dollars so that will be a nice Cap space for Dallas.

Also teams looking to clear cap space would be intrigued to trade for Kidd, so we could maybe work a deal with someone.

I am wanting Ron Artest to be in a Dallas uniform. I think Sac would take Josh for Ron.

Per LA Times: Kobe Bryant to win first MVP award!


http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-kobe3-2008may03,0,6268282.story (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-kobe3-2008may03,0,6268282.story)

Holy shit, could the Hawks be this year's Warriors?

I can't figure out the Celts/Hawks series for the life of me.  The C's have crushed the Hawks in the 3 games in Boston, and have lost 3 close ones in Atlanta.  I understand home court means a lot in the NBA playoffs, but Atlanta is not exactly known as a crazed sports town.  They don't even sell out Braves playoff games.  Apparently the people of the city have caught on and realized they had an NBA team in the past couple weeks, as they're now breaking attendance records.  Hawks have played great AT HOME.  And not to take anything away from them, but the C's have played pretty god darn awful for those 3 games.  Even if they go out and trounce the Hawks in game 7, they can't exactly come out of this series with an increased heir of confidence.

What the hell kind of play was that Doc drew up with 12 seconds left, down 2?  Let's have Ray Allen take a fall away 3 with about 10 seconds left so the Hawks can get the ball back.  Did that really sound like a good plan at the time?  Someone please explain that one to me.  Pretty B.S. call on Pierce's 6th foul too, off the ball foul on the rebound, which led to a technical.  Not a very good swing for the C's right there.

u KNOW what u get when u combine 3 losers *Garnett,Pierce,Allen*?

3 bigger losers.

Seriously Boston are a fuckin joke.

KG has no more excuses.

true ...they are no 66 win team...they took advantage of an easy schedule...out west they probably would have won about 55 or so...they would have been in the middle of the pack with the rest of the west teams....ill tell you this...the 90's Bulls would have bitchslapped the Hawks so bad the first three games they would have forfeited game 4....thats when number 1 seeds and 60 plus win teams were for real....

Wow, those are some harsh words!  I get it though.  Boston deserves it at this stage of the game.  And yes, I agree the vintage Bulls would've wiped the floor with this Hawks team.  Let's not forget though, this Celtics team went 25-5 against the West this year which is a better winning % than they had against the East.  To say they'd be a middle of the pack team in the West is a bold statement and one you'd have no basis or figures to back up except for the fact they've gone to a game 7 against an 8 seed.  What have you done for me lately I guess?  Now you can definitely bring up their lack of playoff experience, that's a valid argument.  But to insinuate that they're just another run of the mill team in the West is laughable.

KG is a good regular season guy but chokes in the playoffs time and time again. Only once has he made it past the first round.


Boston's record is a mirage against the west cause u have to factor in injuries, did those teams in the west play a back to back, hard game before etc etc.

I am an admitted KG hater cause I think he is extremely overrated and Boston should've kept Al Jefferson who has a very long career left and he is gonna be a superstar.


KG supporters have called me names and have made excuses for years.

This one guy even told me that if U put KG on SA instead of Tim Duncan that SA would still have 4 rings.

So I am just relishing in knowing I was right all a long about him.

Well fortunately Boston's season isn't over quite yet, so KG still has a chance to prove himself.  I agree Al Jefferson will be a good player for years to come, but you have to make that deal.  I think you may be the only person outside of a few in Minnesota who thought that was a bad trade for Boston.  If that deal wasn't made, the C's MAY have battled the Hawks for the 8th spot in the East, instead they won 66 games.  I know, I know, KG is great in the regular season, chokes in the post-season.  Fact is, you have to at least get to the playoffs first, and without him I don't think they'd be there.

As for their record against the West being a mirage.  Obviously there are some factors you need to take into account there.  But there are injuries and back to backs in the East as well.  The same factors apply.  All I know is the C's beat the Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets to sweep the Texas triangle, 3 games in 4 nights.  That's not done by accident.  And again, before you say it, I'll say it for you.  That WAS the regular season.

Those Bulls teams would have bitchslapped any team from any era.

Looks like the Lakers will be playing the Jazz.  That will be a much harder series, especially since Utah is so great at home.

They swept the Texas Triangle but once again it was a mirage

Houston were without Yao Ming
SA were in their dog day not playin hard mode
Dallas just got Kidd and were all fucked up.



Boston still win at least 55 games with Jefferson,Ryan Gomes and CO instead of KG.

Now I know they should of beat the hawks by now, but they are a very quality team... sure there in the east, but you still play around 30 non-conference games...

Boston did this superstar team so they could make a run obviously and well they aren't doing what they need to. Garnett isn't overrated, he's just a good player... the thing is this...

you have allen whos been in the league 12 years now, Garnett has been in 13 years and Pierce I think 10 or so. They are all at the end of their career, and getting these 3 together was a good move, it might now pay off.

Boston isn't a joke it's just a thing about matchups... Atlanta shouldn't be in this series no, but they are and they are because of the myth, the matchups and the legend that boston has.

I always thought this team has been cursed since Bird retired man. They went from so great to so terrible for years and years.

Boston will prevail though, no way Atlanta walks in the Garden and beats them in a game 7

Whoa, hold on!  Houston had won 23 games straight or whatever it was without Yao.  The C's snapped that streak by crushing the Rockets.  Nice try though.  Weren't they the first team in a LONG time to sweep the Texas triangle?  Again, you can't discount what they accomplished, although you're trying real hard.  And they don't come close to winning 55 games with Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, and Gerald Green.  You're telling me they add basically just Ray Allen to last years 24 win team and they all of a sudden win 31 more games?  No, not happening.  Not even close.

There was a lot of that curse talk for awhile regarding the C's.  Back in 1986 they drafted Len Bias with the 3rd overall pick and he OD'd on cocaine that night.  He was supposed to help prolong the careers of Bird and McHale by giving them much needed rest.  (Really that whole 86 draft was cursed if you look at it as a whole).  Then in the early nineties, the emerging star Reggie Lewis collapsed and died playing a pickup game.  Then Rick Pitino came aboard and started handing out ridiculous contracts to guys who didn't deserve them.  Travis Knight's forever thankful for that.  Pierce got stabbed in the late nineties too, though fortunately that didn't effect him on the court.  There's been some bad years for the most storied franchise in the NBA.  A loss in game 7 to the lowly Hawks would continue that trend.  But hopefully they will prevail.  I can't see them losing at home, but I also can't believe they're at this point either, so who knows.  The Hawks are a very athletic team (Marvin Williams, Josh Smith) with a great scorer and go to guy (Joe Johnson) that pose some matchup problems for the C's.  But that's no excuse.  They should've easily won this series in 5 games.  We'll see if they can get their act together on the road in Cleveland IF they advance.  They seem to have things in check at home, hopefully that continues today.  Getting out to a large lead early would be nice, you don't want to get the Hawks thinking they've got a chance.

Sure, Paul Pierce missed how many games last season? A TON which led to their record being really bad. Rondo has improved tremendously and Ray Allen would've helped Pierce.

Look what Al Jefferson did this season. I think he put up better numbers than KG.


KG's defense makes them more of a title contender but they still wouldve been really good.


Sweeping the Texas Triangle was an accomplishment. Houston won 11 without Yao but they really didnt beat anyone, the good teams they beat were due to back to backs. They beat the Lakers I think but Pau gasol was hurt so their streak was great but they got a great stretch of playing bad teams.

Boston are a very good team. Im not sayin they suck but people have overrated them tremendously.

Boston finally won that series, in a convincing fashion.

I love how New Orleans is playing right now.

And the Lakers are up at the half as I post this.

Kobe= M-V-P!

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.  I think it's much the opposite.  People have been trying to demean their success all season long.  If anything I'd say people vastly underrated them.  It took until about the end of February for people to annoint them the best team in the East over the Pistons, and all season long people said they couldn't compete out West, despite their exemplary record against them.  Both of which it seems you're not ready to admit.  And I'm sure you're not alone there, you've probably got a lot more company after they went the distance in the first round.

And yes Pierce was hurt and missed A LOT of games last year which definitely hurt their overall record.  I think they were actually around .500 in games he played.  But who's to say he wouldn't have gotten hurt this season if he had the same team back plus Ray Allen.  Ray got hurt and missed some games this year, as did KG.  Injuries happen, you can bring up all the what if's you want, but that's not gonna change anything.  Al Jefferson is a very good player, solid on the offensive end.  Pretty non-exitant on the defensive end though and the C's were a horrible defensive team for the last decade or so.  It's not by accident that they became the best defensive team statistically with the addition of KG namely.  Posey was also a good addition on the defensive side, and they wouldn't have signed him if they didn't trade away 7 guys to get KG, they wouldn't have had the roster space, plus he probably wouldn't have wanted to sign with an Eastern team who would've struggled to make the playoffs.  I understand you hate KG, but trust me, he made a HUGE difference with this team.  Al Jefferson is no Kevin Garnett.  That trade was about as lopsided as it gets.  Why do you think Celtic fans believe Kevin McHale secretly still works for the C's?

See...this is the BS "media brainwashing" I'm talking about with the C's.

You can say they wouldn't have done well in the WC....but you're not looking at the fact they actually did REALL well against WC teams.  Really well.

The Hawks are a young, fast, talented team.  Did I think they'd manage more than one win? No.....and the Celts seemed content to phone in the 4th quarters in Atlanta, so they must not have taken them too seriously, either.

But I'd be hardpressed to say "the sky is falling" after one 7 game series, in which they alternated blowing the HELL out of the Hawks, and losing close games on the road (in two of which, they blew late leads).

Before we start bagging on the C's, lets see what happens against the Cavs, eh?

People were slow to give the Celtics any respect all season long and were just waiting for their chance to pounce on them again.  Apparently this 7 game series against the Hawks was the time.  Now it's back to, "they'd be just another middle of the road team in the West."  Or, "they may have done well in the regular season, but they can't win in the playoffs."  Or, "all their wins agains the Western teams came when those teams had injured stars or were playing on the back end of back to backs."  We've heard it all season, why should it stop now?  We will indeed see what happens against Lebron.  Hopefully the C's learned a lot by being pressed to the brinks by Atlanta.  It still makes no sense to me how they annihilated that team at home, and couldn't pull one out down there in a less than stellar sports town.

I must say, I'm very happy that the Cavs lost last night.

I'm not a big Boston fan or anything, but I hate the Cavs, and I like Boston better.

This is my take on James...

He's a really good player, top 5 in the league, BUT I've never hear/seen more hype on a player ever...

I have to say this guy is "Overrated". I know it sounds nuts for the youngest to 10,000 points or whatever it was.

James, if he was that great, and awesome, wouldn't he stole game 1 in Boston to the "bad" Celtics who barely beat the Hawks?

Yeah he should of, but he didn't... so James is a really good player that's overrated.

Think, have you ever had so much hype around one guy? His performance last year against Detroit was remarkable, but we've seen Jordan do that...

Mark my words, LeBron James will NEVER win a title with the Cavs, and he will only get 1 title his entire career... if he ends up with another team.

He'll be traded somewhere around 2013 or 2014, and end up on a great team... and snag a title probably.

Michael Jordan was great...

who wins 3 titles, takes 2 seasons off, and then wins 3 more? I mean come on...

LeBron James is overhyped...

Until he wins back to back titles I'll have to keep this opinion.

Sure James got to a finals faster then Jordan... but when it's all said and done, Jordan will still be on top.

James won't sign another contract with the Cavs.  He'll be playing for the Nets by the time (or shortly after) they get their new digs.


I'm  a Celts fan.....

Even I will conceed that James is a great player.  I'm not sure comparing EVERY great player to Jordan is fair.....he's the best ever, and the only person with a shot at really eclipsing him is Bryant (who may give Jordan a run to overtake that top spot as "best ever").  But you can be GREAT and not be Jordan.  Magic was great.  Bird was Great.  McHale was Great.  Isiah was great. Stockton, Malone, Shaq, Barkley....the list of greats goes on and on.  James will, IMHO, be mentioned with those guys by the end of his career.  I don't think he'll be the best ever....I agree with you there.  But I think he'll be up there in the pantheon.

What I DO find amusing is that KG has been bagged on for being EXACTLY the type of player you describe above, while James has been hailed as the 2nd coming.  Last night, it was KG who put his team on his back and dragged them over the finish line and James who folded.  Granted, it was a bad night for Lebron, but still......

Like I stated not too long ago, LeBron James is a overrated player.

If he's so great he would of taken 1 of 2 in Boston, and not go 8/41 from the field...

that's like 19 %, which Michael Jordan never did...

I'm calling a sweep...

Again:

James = great player.  He is. I mean, look at his numbers.   And he lost 2 to Detroit last year and carried the team on his back (practically) to the NBA finals.

Boston is also a VERY good defensive team, so lets not leave that piece out, either.  Especially at home (where they've avg giving up about 75 pts a game, so far).

James <> Jordan.  But nobody (with the possible exception of Bryant) does.

If you want to say James is overrated because he's compared, all the time, to being "the next Jordan"...I agree.  100% agree.  He's not.

If you want to say he's overrated in that he's not a great player....I think statistically speaking, you're going to have a tough case to make.

Let me ask you a question:  Was Charles Barkley overrated in your opinion?

James' stats are great, I agree, and yes he's overrated because of all the second comings and the next Jordan hype....

I'm tired of it...

Jordan would never choke this bad... (8/41)

He's a really good player, I just hate how all these second generation fans (12-18) years old... eat up the King James bit...


Charles Barkley? I wouldn't say he was overrated... he did get a lot more attention for his techs, and problems and attitude then his skill... As a player he was underrated in my opinion. As a character, he always got more attention for the attitude he had...

Again, we agree on that.  If you compare him (or just about anyone who's initials are not KB) to Jordan, you're overrating him.  He's not....  Maybe, someday, he'll get there.  You never know.  But he's not there now.  He'll need to find a consistent mid-range jumper to get even close.....

As I said, though, I'm not sure it's fair to compare him to, arguably, the guy with the BEST playoff stats in history.  Nobody's numbers are going to stack up to Jordans. Not even Kobe's at the moment.  Which is why I asked about Barkley.


His playoff stats (when he was in them) weren't stellar.  If you compare his stats with Lebron's (which, obviously, is a much smaller sample set), they're pretty close.  Even with Lebron's tough two games...he's hovering around 40% FGS, this year.  Not great, not terrible.

I think Lebron will be a player MUCH closer to Barkley's level (or Dominique Wilkens, or Clyde Drexlers) than Jordan's.  But that still puts him in some pretty select, HOF caliber company.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24532691/

You all might find that article interesting on Lebron's performances.

I see both of your points...yes the Celtics did well against the West...but I still think they would have been a middle of the pack team out West...now that does not mean they are a "run of the mill" team...this was the greatest Western Conference in NBA history this year..you can do alot worse than being in the middle of that pack...My argument for saying the Celtics would have been about a 55 win team is because of the softer schedule they had in the East...yes i know they had a good record against the West but they were not playing against the West on a NIGHTLY basis...I think that would have taken a toll on them like it did on the other West teams...its one thing to go on a road trip out West and then come back home and take it easy for a week or so playing against Chicago, Charlotte, New Jersey and New York...i think the constant grind of playing tough teams night in and night out would have knocked about 7 to 12 wins off that record of theirs.....I never jumped on their bandwagon like everyone else did at the beginning of the season...KG is a natural born loser(not as bad as McGrady but still), Ray Allen is always banged up, and Paul Pierce has never played in a big game in his life, unless you count losing to Jersey back in 02...seriously they are not battle tested and it was obvious in that Atlanta series...the Hawks had no business being in the playoffs....Now dont think I am saying they are a bad team...they are an excellent team but I wasnt ready to hand the trophy over to them in October like everyone else...and Im still not...

Lebron James is better at his age than both Kobe and Jordan were back in the day....Lebron also is naturally gifted physically...he came into the league with the body of a 4 or 5 year veteran....he looked  completely silly when he was playing in high school...Lebron will be a better player than Barkley but probably not Jordan...there is only one Jordan...Charles Barkely was phenomenal given his physical attributes...he wasnt that tall and he was always kind of fat, but he would out rebound and hustle anyone on that court...Barkely is the perfect example of doing as much as you possibly can(and more) with what youve got....

Lebron is also all alone on that Cavaliers team....they have nobody around him...That Cleveland team that made the finals last year is probably the worst team to make the finals in the past 30 years....with the exception of the 2001 Sixer team which was god awful and the 2002 Nets werent too good either....

Lost one to the Jizz, lameness.

They played such a dumb game, they better not turn the ball over so much on Sunday!

I hear you, solid thoughts.  However, I think you're overstating the fact that people were ready to hand them the trophy in October.  I didn't hear that at all.  I heard quite the opposite.  The East has been Detroit's to lose since the beginning and only towards the end of February did people start giving the C's the nod as tops in the East.  I agree, the West is much more of a grind than the West, so in that sense maybe they would've had less than 60 wins.  But I still think they stack up against any team in the NBA.  The Hawks are far from a good playoff team, but what they are is an athletic team.  They gave the C's fits, especially at home when they could feed off the crowd's energy.  Cleveland. while a better team than Atlanta, is not nearly as athletic outside of LeBron.  But even with that fact, I'm still amazed they weren't able to win at least one game in Atlanta.  We'll see how they do in Cleveland.  Can LeBron bounce back, or will the C's stifling defense keep him scratching his head and looking perplexed?

you are right...it was around February where alot of the hype started to build up around the Celtics...it was in November a few said they would challenge the Bulls win record....tough loss tonight for them though..They need to find a way to win onthe road before they play the Pistons

Yeah things could get scary for the C's if they don't get their act together.  This losing on the road could become psychological if it hasn't already.  And the Cavs were down 0-2 last year to the Pistons and came back to win the next 4 so this if familiar territory for them.  Plus, at least Cleveland was competitive in the games in Boston for times at least.  They easily could've won game 1 and blitzed out to a double digit lead in game 2 before the Celtics corrected themselves and cruised to victory.  I didn't see any of the game last night, but it doesn't appear that it was much of a game at any time.  So even though they're down 2-1, Cleveland still is not in a bad position.

make that 2...with another 2 on the way.... : ok:

lakers will take it in game 7... i hope  :)

NIce points... but a little off...

LeBron had help last year, he didn't shoot the ball as well as he does... this year he has even more help (Wally, Joe Smith)

Also what about that 99 Knicks team.... that's probably the worst team in the last 30 years...

And on JAmes being better at this age? You can't compare that, because Jordan didn't jump from high school, so obviously James has more accompished because this would be jordan's 2nd year...

rookie years... Jordan averaged 6 more ppg then James, Lebron has only reached a finals faster than jordan, but back then the east wasn't so damn weak when he did it.... put JOrdan in the east today from the 80s and he would of won 3 more titles...

 :hihi:

At least they made those games close.  More like, we gave them away.

No worries man, as long as Boozer and AK47 continue with their cheap shots, we'll get to the free throw line and do our thing.

Celtics still winless on the road.    ;D

once they lose their first game at home its over for them

That would stand to reason since they haven't won on the road yet.

Standing by my Boston overrated post


KG, Pierce and Allen did not show up

I am a huge Dallas fan and I hear constantly from people how Dirk has no heart etc. they even call him the tinman

Funny to me that no one on Boston is being called that. They are losing to teams they shouldnt. Hawks won 3 and now Cleveland makin them look bad.

KG Zero pts in 4th quarter which was my point. he is a great regular season player, shrinks in the big moments.

I've heard plenty of people bagging on KG this post-season, and obviously Allen who until last night was completely non-existant.  I do think Boston is a far better team than Cleveland, but the Cavs aren't exactly a pushover.  I mean they were down to the Pistons 0-2 last year and went on to win 4 straight to advance to the finals.  I wouldn't say the Celtics have no business losing to them.  Looks like we're destined for another 7 game series, as long as the C's can take care of business at home.  I don't see them winning game 6 at Cleveland, regardless of what happens in game 5.  In a sense you're right about "the big 3".  They do have to step it up on the road.  Aside from those guys, James Posey, P.J. Brown, and Sam Cassell, the other guys are young and lack any playoff experience.  Those guys have a reason to be intimidated by the spotlight.  But not the aforementioned, they've been through it, so there's no excuses.  KG played well early last night, Pierce played well in spots, and Allen played well for a 8 minute stretch or so, but you're right all 3 were way too inconsistent to lead the team to victory.

They just can't get everyone together for 4Q on the road...it's bordering on the insane, now.

Game 3....nobody showed up for the 1Q..and that was really the difference in the rest of the game.

In game 4...they played well for the first 2 and 1/2 quarters-ish.  Spotty, but well enough to win.  But they took the rest of the night off starting with that run by the Cavs at the end of the 3rd.  From then on.....they looked like they were sleep walking.

Tired maybe?  I don't know...

See I thought they still had a legit shot in the 4th quarter but they just took bad shots.  Ill-advised 3's, fall aways, etc.  Of course give Cleveland's defense credit for forcing them into those shots, but partly it was bad decision making.  And when they did get off good shots they just didn't go down for the most part.  The NBA is not like most sports where you have to play a full game in order to win.  You really just have to play well enough to be in it in the 4th quarter, which the C's did last night.  They played far from a great game those first 3 quarters but they were right there in the 4th.  But you're right, they've collapsed down the stretch a number of times on the road in these playoffs.

Did you guys catch LeBron yelling at his mom after she reacted to a nominally hard foul Pierce had on a James drive to the hoop?  The action spilled into her section right behind the hoop and she looked like she wanted a piece of Pierce.  KG got wrapped up in the middle and LeBron was screaming at her.  Obviously there was no intent to injure on Paul's part, he was just doing all he could to prevent James from getting a shot off.  And LeBron understood that, but his mom was just trying to protect her baby boy I guess.  Afterwards LeBron sought out Pierce and gave him a fist pump, which I thought was a nice move.  No need to overreact, it's basketball.

Anyone saying Lebron is overrated are out of their minds

Have u checked latelythe numbers he puts up?


Dont make the Jordan had morePPG cause back then Jordan jacked up way more shots than Lebron.

Lebron is already a better teammate, he makes his teammates better than Jordan did at that age and he is the greatest 22 year old ever

Some will say Magic Johnson but look at the talent Magic had around him.

Lebron will be right up there. Not sure about Jordan level, but will at least be up there with Magic and Bird.

The kid is only 22 years old

Remember Kobe at 22? nothing like Lebron.

Imagine Lebron when he gets in his prime! He isnt due for his prime till bout 5 more seasons!!!!!!!!!!!


thats just insane.

I think people who question Lebron forget how old he is.

To put him in a class with Clyde and Dominique is unfair and quite ridiculous. He will be way better than those guys cause truth be told, he already is.

Jordan might have been a better scorer...but James is a better all round player...and of course the fact that he skipped college had alot to do with it....The East is WAY weaker now though then it was when Jordan played so you got me there...

I think the 99 Knicks team is one of the worst...probably tied with that 02 Nets team...but the 01 Sixers and 07 cavs are def worse than the 99 Knicks...Sprewell and Houston were unstoppable that year....and they did that with an injured Ewing

you mean miss more free throws?  And if i hear one more story about Kobes back....seriously I know the league wants the Lakers to go the finals...its evident from all the shitty calls that go against Utah...but the refs are almost handing the Lakers these games....Boozer and AK are just playing hard defense...nothing wrong with that...

I think Boozer's defense you refer to is his two hands pushing-off on the back of the Lakers players.  It's a foul when he does it in LA; but not when he does it in Utah?

Utah always gets away with stuff at Delta Energy Solutions Arena.  I remember watching games in utter disbelief in the 90's and wondering why the referees would swallow their whistles there.

KOBE'S BACK!  ;D

oh you mean like Michael Jordan shoving Bryon Russell practically to the ground to take a wide open game winnnig shot?   youre right those refs did swallow those whistles... :hihi:

Karma's a bitch.  ;D

haha i hope youre not referring to when the Jazz used to slap the Lakers around in the playoffs in the late 90's...i dont think Utah getting foul calls was the reason you got swept in 98 and blown out in 97...seriously in 98 the league wanted the Lakers and Bulls in the worst way but  the refs didnt even get the chance to give the Lakers any calls because they were down by 30 every game...and you know and I know the league wants Lakers/Celtics in the worst way....Utah has always gotten the bad calls on them...they are from UTAH!!! the smallest market there is in the NBA....the league never wants them in the Finals....come on you know the refs are in the Lakers back pocket.....look at sundays game...Utah had so many horrible foul calls on them....and they still won...

No, I was still talking about Jordan.

As for the Lakers in the 90's...I can't even defend their collapses against Utah and I won't even start.  But the Sonics and Bulls come to mind!  :D

Dude, come on.  If the Lakers so much sneezed on a Jazz player, they would get called for a foul.  Turiaf's foul was NOT a flagrant and he didn't deserve to be ejected.  A tiny voice in my head tells me that there is still game fixing going on.  (See, Tim Donaghy)

I don't remember what year it was, but damn, I remember watching the Trail Blazers led by Arvydas Sabonis get totally jobbed in a Western Finals series against the Lakers.  Terrible officiating...and it really led me to believe the league wanted LA, not Portland, in the Finals.

btw, Lebron is special, but he's no Jordan...not yet.

Clyde and Nique are HOF'ers.  That's pretty select company.  It's not like I just said he's akin to Uwe Blab.

Their career stats are in line with LeBrons, right now.  It's a fair point that he's not in his prime, yet...but then, we don't know WHAT will happen in the future.   All we know is what we have, now.

yeah but u have different levels


Jordan, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain on one level
Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Kareem, Hakeem Olajuwon,Tim Duncan on another
Isiah thomas, Jerry West, Shaq, Charles Barkley,John Stockton,DR J, Dominique, Karl malone, Clyde would be about the third tier of superstar

Lebron will definitely be on that 2nd tier if not on the elite first tier.

there's no way duncan is "higher ranked" then shaq.. not dr. j either..

shame stockton and malone never got to win, they should be higher then duncan too :hihi: nique too


yeah you got it right, i don't like tim  :P

You know it's way too early to say these things.

You can't really group players up in tiers. They all belong to a different time. Argue if you want, but if Wilt the Stilt was 30 years of age, today... like right now he would be a good player, but no where near as dominant.

Wilt averaged 50 and 25 one year, which is absolutely ridiculous. So you put in todays game he may be around 30 and 15 or so I guess.

The time reflected how dominant Wilt was. Other players belong to a time. Dr. J in today's game would be an above average player.... why? Because everyone can dunk like him now....

Dominique Wilkins... <--- my fav player of all time.... in todays game is just a Ray Allen type of player, good shooter... good dunker... nothing really great. But in his time Dom was the "Human Highlight Film". He was doing things that only himself and Jordan were doing.

LeBron James is an overrated player. No matter how you look at it man. Sure he's really young and really good. I get it. His poor shooting performance in the series is pathetic... make it real. And he's finally got a "team" around him too. All I heard was how he doesn't have a team... and he's alone blah blah.

the series is now 2-2 and how is this if James is struggling? I wonder... he's got support. If the Cavs team from last year were playing right now this would be a sweep.

Now again, this is all matter of opinion, I'm not saying I'm right, just saying I make more sense than you.

Tim Duncan's a douche, don't feel too bad.  But so were Stockton and Malone.  Stockton went to the Vlade Divac School of Acting, and Malone had this annoying kick anytime he would take a fadeaway shot from the perimeter.

Duncan has gotten old and the only reason he is still a decent player is because he knows how to use the backboard.

I hate Tim Duncan but u cant take away from what he has accomplished.


He has the same amount of rings as Shaq and has never had a Kobe Bryant on his team.


Manu and Parker are good but they are no Kobe. Shaq also had D wade in Miami.


Duncan is a winner and a great all around player. One of the best defensive players of all time.


Shaq is playing for his 4th team

That tells u something right?

so John Stockton who has the all time record in assists and steals is a third tier player?  Karl Malone who is second all time on the NBA scoring list is also a third tier player?   knowing you im suprised you dont have Dirk Nowitzki on that first tier... :hihi:

LOL the Sonics? it took them 7 games to beat a Jazz team that was nowhere near as good as them...and John Stocktons leg was injured that whole series...rubbing my face in the Jazz losses of the 90's isnt going to bother me....they are the class of the NBA....and Stockton and Malone were the most dedicated players to their team who gave 100% every night...i have no regrets...like John Stockton said "i appreciate the effort" when he was talking about all those Jazz teams that came up short.....

Stockton and Malone got a lot of numbers due to the amount of years they played etc.

They never won a title though, so that drops them to third tier.

No, we can't take anything away.  He'll play another 5-6 years, rack up some stats and be mentioned in the same breath as all the other great big men to play the game.

bullshit...stockton broke that assist and steal record in 95 and 96...8 seasons before he retired...

i hear the title argument....a championship looks nice on the resume...but Barkely, Ewing. Miller, Stockton and Malone are better than most players who actually have won championships.... a championship isnt everythng...

dude you are out of your fucking mind...who came up with this tier system...you??  Stockton and Malone were named to the best 50 players of all time back in 1997..Karl Malone is the greatest power forward to ever play the game and a 2 time NBA Mvp...and John Stockton is the best pure point guard to play the game..with an assist record that will NEVER be broken...(yes I know Magic played point, but he was a swing player, not really a point guard)

Karl Malone isnt better than Tim Duncan or Kevin Mchale so i dont know where u got he was the greatest.

if Magic Johnson doesnt get aids, Stockton doesnt sniff the assist record.

Third Tier is still top 25 of all time but would u be stupid enough to put malone and stockton in a class with Bird and Magic? NO WAY

U would put Patrick Ewing on the same level as Hakeem Olajuwon or Kareem?

HAHA your kidding me..  Stockton broke that assist record in less time than it took Magic Johnson to get it...so that detroys that arugment right there..Stockton murdered that record and led the league in assists for 9 straight seasons...a few of those Magic was actually playing.....not too mention Magic was on his way down when he got Aids anyway...he wasnt going to play much longer.... and even if he did Stockton still would have broken that record...he slaughtered that record


and yes I put Ewing on Hakeems level...not Jabbars though

still about 6 minutes left in the game.....this might one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen.....seriously i hope someone here is watching the Lakers get all these foul calls when there is literally no contact whatsoever.....

Axl Rose- "ARE YOU BLIND!?!?!?"

A beautiful victory for the Lake show, hopefully Kobe's back is better so they can celebrate in front of all the Jazz fans.

I agree Luke Walton got bailed out on his fall-away.  However, its called home court advantage.  You won't be complaining when Utah gets those same calls Friday. 

So when Kirilenko is leveling Fish, that's just hard D right?

it was a good game tonight....Utah let one slip away...i wouldnt count on Kobe celebrating in Utah on friday..considering he is 0-7 lifetime there in the playoffs....the Lakers looked very vulnerable tonight....tough loss...i have a feeling that this might have been the series tonight...that was the one for Utah to steal....going in there for a game 7 if they are able to win on friday is going to be tough....

p.s Archie...i know we have been talking about b-ball for a while on this thread...are you really only 19?  You have a good knowledge of 90s basketball if that is the case...i remember watching all those Utah playoff series against the Lakers...you would have been 8 years old at that time....i got the impression that you were older from some of your posts.

I don't disagree.  But statistically...Stockton is one of the, if not the, greatest point guard of all time.  That assist record says it all.  Malone was VERY good, too...but I agree about that damn kick!


Something EVERY NBA PLAYER SHOULD RE-LEARN!

Jesus, I've coached kids in basketball, on and off, for abuot 15 years.  Young kids.  We DRILL it into their heads, when shooting layups..but it makes it SO hard when the guys they're watching play in the NBA finger roll and float every damn shot. 

Sorry...pet peeve.

I agree.

And it took me a second to think about it, to get there.

Travis fucking Knight has an NBA championship ring.  Travis Knight couldn't carry the jock strap of any of the guys mentioned above.

Malone is about, statistically speaking, the equivalent of McHale....a bit better, actually.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mchalke01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html


Ditto with Duncan:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html


The ONLY BIG difference are the number of rings won.

Karl Malone is nowhere near the Defensive player that Tim Duncan is or the leader or the intangible presence. Duncan 4 rings with no other top 25 player on his roster. Malone had the "Greatest" PG of all time and they made it to a grand total of 2 NBA finals.

Malone choking at the Free Throw line to cost them.


U guys only look at points. Malone was a great scorer but thats about it, Stockton was a great PG but they arent top 10 players of all time.

Malone and Stockton would be somewhere in the mid 20's.

Not many would take Karl Malone over Kevin Mchale.  Mchale was overshadowed by Bird but he revolutionized the post game.

Malone at the foul line? Dude was like 74% career

I think you mean when Jordan came around and swiped the ball from him in game 6 in 1998, that set up that infamous jump shot.

Karl Malone is a top 20 player of all time, for sure. I don't care how many years you play, but when you put up 36,000 points... you gotta be somebody.

Stockton? Great PG.

The argument here? Duncan is the defensive player Malone wishes he was..  :rofl:

Malone avg more steals, Duncan more blocks.  Duncan is a pf/center who's played, at least partially, in an NBA that allows limited zone defense.  Malone played in an era where you could only play straight up man. 

Again, statistically, they're roughly equivalent.

And again, you're saying it's all about the rings.



On the contrary, I look at the stats line as a whole.  The numbers look roughly equivalent to me.  Rebounding, assists, turnovers steals vs blocks, points....every statistical category looks pretty close.  If you disagree, please point out where Duncan or McHale excelled. 

And please...don't say "intangibles".  That's a cop out.

Stockton has been rated as one of the top 5 point guards of all time...rolled in with Magic, Oscar Robertson, and Isiah Thomas.  How you put him in the "mid 20's", I don't know.  Actually, I do know.  Stockton wasn't flashy, mouthy, or media friendly.  He was vastly underappreciated when he played...so I'm not all that surprised by the reaction.

Malone was, quite simply, one of the greates low post scorers ever.  He's rated as one of the top PF ever (with Duncan, Mchale, and Barkley).  Again, how you get him into the "mid 20's", I don't get.




Would I take Malone OVER McHale?  Don't know.  It would depend on the team I was running and at what point in their careers we're talking.  It's also AWFUL tough for me to put aside my "Celtic love"...Bird, McHale, Parish, Ainge and DJ were the team of my boyhood and I idolized those guys in the days when basketball was a HUGE part of my life.  But, if I go beyond the emotional attachment.....I'd put them both on pretty equal footing.  McHale may have revolutionized post play, but in the end Karl played a pretty similar game.

Oh, and ESPN says Karl is better (or did about 3 years ago):
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2074360

I don't ENTIRELY disagree.  The thing is..Duncan gets a lot more help (by way of NBA rule changes...both allowable defense and the "charging rule") than Malone got.

Duncan is more of a shot blocker.  Karl had, IMHO, better hands. 

I think the fact Duncan is a current player AND the fact he has a lot of jewelry, makes him look like a much better player than the Mailman.  I think, ultimately, IF Duncan is better...its not by much.  Not by "enough" to put them on different tiers IMHO.

Really and truly.

Can the Hornets close things out in San Antonio tonight? 

Methinks not.  Why can't road teams win a game?  I would rather face San Antonio than New Orleans, truth be told.

Detroit/Boston is gonna be one killer series.  Unfortunately Detroit is going to be well rested and I honestly don't think the Celtics match up very well against Detroit, I've said that all season.

I think Detroit should be the favored team IF Boston gets by Cleveland, even though the C's would have home court.  The Pistons have played better and proved they can win on the road in the post-season.  The Celtics, unless they win tomorrow night haven't done that yet.  And if the Cavs somehow survive (without Daniel Gibson now), the Pistons would be a heavy favorite.

as far as the whole ring thing...yes Duncan has 4 rings....but look at the teams he played in the finals...the 03 nets, 99 Knicks, 07 Cavaliers and the 05 Pistons.....the late 90's Jazz teams would have beaten all of those teams...the only really talented team in that bunch was the Pistons....Duncan played in a weaker era...no doubt about it...karl malone played in the greatest era in the history of the NBA...the early 80's to late 90's.....I didnt see Duncan go through Jordan to get any of those rings...or Olajuwon for that matter...4 titles is impressive no matter how you look at it...but put those in perspective...

The point is that he faced the best team in the east each year...

stop crying about it...

Hahaha.....the East.  :rofl:

im not crying about anything...i have no regrets about Malone or Stocktons career....they brought it every night.....night in and night out...they didnt get the title...oh well...losing to Jordan...cant exactly get pissed about that...

The point is he is using rings as justification for making Duncan a better player...Karl Malone is also 2-0 all time against Duncan in the playoffs...am I using that? no..because alot of that had to do with the team around them...teams win championships not players...

durability is a huge factor for me..If im starting a team I want a guy that I know is going to put the jersey on every night... while in Utah, Malone missed something like 8 games in 18 years(with a few of those coming from suspensions)...

I give Duncan the nod over Malone.  It's so subjective though.  I give mchale the nod over barkley too.

To the conference finals we go!

congrats..I was happy to see the Jazz rally to justify me actually staying at the bar to watch the fourth quarter...the Lakers really came out with alot of energy and Utah was unable to match it until it was too late...

Thank you, and yes it was a great series.  And finally a road team won! 

TNT and ABC have the games the rest of the way, right?

Yeah, ESPN & unfortunately KCAL are done for the year.

Well here we are.

Detroit @ Boston

L.A. vs. N.O./S.A.


James is once again overrated.

He had a killer game, 45 points... he actually shot well for the 2nd time this series too.

He still fell short as I predicted, and he had the best Cavs team this year than he's ever had before. He had a chance to pull a 3 with 25 seconds to go that would of tied it, instead he passed it up, and took a really really stupid shot on the left side of the goal that missed badly.

After that, later on, he was at the line, down 5, and clanked the first FT.

"Great" players don't pass up open 3s that tie games, they don't take stupid shots, and if they take that stupid shot, they don't miss it. They also don't miss ANY FTs in crucial situations.

LeBron James is overrated as hell and we'll see him again next year and I'm glad.

Boston over Detriot in 5 (yeah I know it took them 7 to beat Cleveland, but I'm calling it in 5)

I also hope to God the Spurs pull it out!!!

Well there ya go you pro James fans... he is "your" King James. lmao  :rofl:

I agree with you on James to a point.  All time greats don't miss clutch free throws with 5 seconds left in the game.  However, I still don't think this Cavs team was all that good.  He really had very little support.  It was basically all LeBron.  Wally Szerbiak, Delonte West, Ilgauskus, Joe Smith, all decent players but hardly enough to make the Cavs a legit contender.  That trade they made barely made their team any better if at all.  LeBron should be given all the credit that Cleveland made it as far as they did.

Lebron is easily the most physically gifted player in the NBA...to deny that is ludicrous.  Trade Pierce for Lebron and the Celtics win this series in 4 games.  Lebron has a garbage supporting cast.  It's eerily similar to Jordan's early Bulls days.  To think they came as close as they did to the Celtics is just a testament to what kind of phenom Lebron truly is.

btw, how ridiculous was that when the Celtics PJ Brown wasn't called for an intentional foul on Ilgauskas towards the end?  I find it hard to stomach NBA officiating.  As hard as it is to make the call...make the call.  When you wrap both hands around the guy's shoulders, it's pretty clear you aren't just going for the ball.   

I agree 100%. Put the game in a different arena and the call is made. I have seen much less called a fragrant foul.
BTW, I was really turned off by the crowd yelling "bullshit" every time a foul was called on the Celtics. I mean, as a father, what if I wanted to take my son to the game, or watch it on TV with him? It just struck me as immature and unsportsmanlike behavior and I did not appreciate it at all. 

Most dads teach their boys bad language at or during sporting events!  :hihi:

Apparently, Donaghy bet on more than 100 games.  Guys, don't be fooled.  That shit still goes on today.

Lebron made some critical mistakes down the stretch. They were down by 1 pt 89-88 and he took a horrendous three pointer. Had he drove to the goal, He wouldve made the shot or got fouled and they couldve taken the lead and anything couldve happened

had Cleveland not traded Hughes and GOoden, they wouldve beat Boston.

Hughes couldve guarded Pierce better than Lebron and Gooden would've scored way more than Walllace/Smith.

I'd rate them as just as ridiculous as the calls that occured late in game 6 (the AWFUL charging/blocking call, the "no calls" when the Celts were down low getting MUGGED as opposed to the "touch fouls" getting called on Clevelands end).  The "home court" officiating has been pretty blantant, IMHO, throughout the ENTIRE NBA playoffs (and not just the Celts/Cavs series).

I actually thought the "horse collar" by Brown SHOULD have been an intentional.....but the replay DOES show that it was at least a close call. He did git the ball BEFORE he horse collared him.  Still...I think the arm around the neck should have been enough, too.

James also made a HORRENDOUS "block out" during that jump ball toward the end....enabling the Celts to get the ball.

He did make mistakes down the stretch, but the Cavs are going to live and die by Lebron and I doubt you'll find many in that organization who are going to have a problem with it.   Is he Jordan?  No.....at least not yet (who knows what the future will bring).  He was certainly great yesterday....just not perfect.  And those mistakes at the end cost the Cavs....

I don't know if the Cavs would've beaten the C's if they never made that trade, I'd like to say that's false, but we'll never know.  I will say though, Gooden used to give the Celtics fits when he was with the Cavs.  He played like a legit #2 scoring option against them for some reason, then disappeared against other teams.

On a sidenote, they may have to nix the "big 3" label until the basketball player formerly knows as Ray Allen gets back to form.  That was as awful a series any star has ever had in my memory.

ha... how about the time when LeBron grabbed Pierce's jersey and made the ball go out of bounds and the Cavs got it back? That wasn't a foul was it? And Doc Rivers was making that up right? lol

Well... face it people, he's a good player, but they lost...

His cast of West, J. Smith and Wally is a good cast...

Smith is a underacheiver from hell and Wally is still a solid scorer.

LeBron still doesn't have what it takes to get far. Yeah he's what 23? And for his age is is remarable... but with the hype comes the critics... I am a critic... pass up a 3 look, blow 1 free throw... "do not block out Paul"... come on man...

the guy is good but he's overrated.

You can say what you want... but LeBron James is overrated. He put up 45? Ok.... that's great... his team lost. and he made bad choices.

Love it, breathe it, live it

lol patience is being played in the NO and SA game while they wait for the people to clean the court from the ice that i think was thrown to the court

how could anyone call Lebron James overrated?

He only has one guy who could start for other nba teams and that is Big Z and he is barely a top 10 center in the NBA.


Delonte West was a backup PG in SEATTLE of all places, Wally is way past his prime, Ben Wallace is way past his prime. JoeSmith never had a prime.


KG,Pierce and Allen were never the Big 3.

Thorned_Rose, obviously Lebron grabbed Pierce's jersey and it didn't get called...I didn't look at the replay to see where the officials were positioned...there are blindspots, and hands as quick as Lebron's can get away with stuff.  I think the point I was making was the horse-collar by PJ Brown was a very poor call by the official.  I officiated high school ball for 7 years.  Yes, I know there are some differences in rules, but that was obviously a poor call. 

I copied D's post, because I think he hits the nail on the head with Lebron.  The man is a stud.  (Lebron, not D.  :hihi:)
Did you see that loose ball he grabbed around mid-court?  He accelerated so god damned fast it blew my mind.  A couple dribbles and he slammed it home...unreal.
I would say KG, Pierce, and Allen are a formidable trio though.  I'd call 'em a Big 3.  :peace:

The Spurs are coming into town on Wednesday.

Best rivalry of the decade, 7 championships between them.

The Lakers better fuckin win

I dont hate anything like I hate the San Antonio Spurs.

I don't love anything more than I love beating the Spurs.

i dont like uhh  :confused: ... umm yeah lakers better win

My wife and I were watching the end of the Celtics vs Cavs game the other night.  In about a 5 minute stretch they played Welcome to the Jungle and Paradise City.

I said "Whoever's running the PA tonight must be a GnR fan".

Then I said "Besides having no talent, I could never be a broadcaster.  Every time they played GnR, I'd have to mention it on air...."

They've played "Welcome to the Jungle" ever since their home floor became known as "The Jungle" back when Paul and Antoine Walker were leading the C's.  It does seem that "Paradise City" has been added to the mix in the 4th quarter, as it's been played the last 2 games. 

Game 1 tonight.  Will the real Ray Allen please stand up?

I've been watching Ray since he was a Husky down here in CT.  Love Sir Walter Ray as much as any player out there.

He needs to find his shot, man.  I don't EVER remember him being this streaky, or having this kind of slump, and he's picked a hell of a time to hit it.  I don't know if it's the pressure, the minutes, or just him being his own worst enemy (mentally) when he's shooting.  They're just NOT going down, and you can see him, now hesitating just that split second, contemplating the pass, before he lets one go.  And THAT's going to be an issue.  He needs to catch and release, in rhythm, to be his best.....

Hopefully, things'll get better vs the Pistons. 

I gotta say, I'm rooting for the Celts (obviously) but I'm a pig in shit: 2 former Uconn stars battling it out for a trip to the finals.  Rip vs Ray...

That's fine, but James struggled in the first 2 wins in Cleveland.. and they won... how is that? BEcause he has help, more help than last year. Wally throws up 20 a couple of times, and hell Joe Smith comes off the bench in one game and goes 7/8 while James is 5/16. That's how they won, because the cast stepped up. I'm so tired of hearing about how he has no help. It's sickening.

Yeah I saw where he took the ball to the rack in amazing speed and velocity. He's a really good player, but he's not quite there. People love James because he's so good and young and that's fine with me. With all the hype and talk around LeBron he needs to play more consistly. "Stud" players don't blow free throws, they don't go 8/41 in the first 2 games of a semis and they also don't take stupid shots with the game on the line.

Like I said overrated, and it seems crazy at first because "LeBron, overrated?!!!" Yeah he is... he's a great all around player... he can pass really well, best since Magic maybe and he can score, he's like Dominique Wilkins combined with Magic Johnson.

Those players had lots of success early on. Wilkins even made several trips to the semis and a couple to the eastern finals...

LeBron had a lucky year last year and when he got to the Spurs it was a sweep like a broom. I just don't like this player

I love the Spurs. They are that professional veteran team that all teams need to look up to.

I bet you guys thought they were done when N.O. had them down 0-2 in 2 blowouts. lmao too bad huh?

Spurs win this series in 6.

Boston in 5.

Spurs over the Celtics in 6.

that's my predictions

Pilferk, you are not alone!  I did the same fucking thing!   :hihi: 

"...and Delonte with the sweet penetration and dish to Ilgauskas!  He turns and fires from 12 feet...with the kiss!  It's good!  ...and what's that I hear?"

(fellow broadcaster):  "that's the crowd cheering A4P,"

"no, the tune man!  That's Paradise City!  That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!!  Let's get some cheerleaders over here man!  Where's my drink!  Cheers!!!"   :beer:

Yeah Pilferk, I'd be fired pretty fast too.   :hihi:


D, you've gotta respect the Duncan.   :peace:


PS:  I forgot to mention...how badly do you think the NBA wants a Lakers-Celtics Finals???   ;)

Fellow Husky fan here Pilferk in the great state of CT.  Looks like Ray had another rough time tonight (I missed the game as I was at the Van Halen show at Mohegan Sun).  But the C's won, so all is well.  Still, Ray has to get himself corrected, and as he stated himself, he needs his teammates to help him out with that.

As for the Ray/Rip matchup.  Man, Ray Allen was on some of the best Husky teams EVER, but they crumbled in the clutch.  Rip will forever be my favorite Husky because he was THE go to guy on their first national championship team.  Although, I conted that Khalid El-Amin was THE reason that team won it all.  He gave that team the swagger and confidence it needed to beat the mighty Duke Blue Devils.  Oh, what a sweet game that was.  That was the first championship I got to enjoy from any of the teams I cheer for.  I had some rough years growing up in the 80's and 90's.  But since then, the Huskies won again in 2004, the Red Sox have won 2 World Series, and the Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls.  So things obviously improved for me over the years.  Sorry to go off on a tangent.

Back on topic.  Go Celtics!!!

I'll hold you to this.  :hihi:

fixed!

Weird...I thought I posted this yesterday...but I guess not:

My prediction:

Lakers in 5

Celts in 6.

Lakers and Celts go 7 and EVERYONE wins because it becomes an instant classic...a series for the ages with BOTH sides playing awesome ball.  I would hope the Celts get to hoist # 17...but Kobe and the Lakers are playing scary good ball right now.  I just can't predict a winner......

What I liked about Ray last night was that he was driving the hoop, and SUFFOCATING Rip (and anyone else) on defense.  It was good old fashioned Calhoun style D.  He couldn't drop a J in the ocean, but at least he contributed.


Agree 100%.  El Amin was the "fire" on that team....Rip was the "ice".  El Amin was all emotion, and Rip would just stab the other team in the heart with his jumpers.  Man, that was a great game. "We shocked the world!!!".   Still the sweetest of the 2 NCAA titles UCONN has won....because NOBODY gave us a chance against the all mighty Blue Devils....while we were EXPECTED to win with Okafor.


I'm a Husky fan (how can you not be when you live in CT?), and a C's fan...but after that we part company.  Yanks and Giants for me...and I'm from the NORTHERN part of the state, so it gets tough for me. :)

Yeah I'm in northern CT too.  Most of my friends are Sox fans, but there's a fair amount of Yankee fans around.  However, Giants fans still seem to outnumber Patriot fans in these parts, at least from what I can tell.  Proabably because the Pats sucked back in the late 80's and early 90's, while the Giants were in the upper echelon of the NFL at that time.  Anyhow, 2 of my friends who are Patriot fans went to AZ for the Super Bowl this year leaving me behind all by myself.  So I ended up having to watch the game with 15 Giant fans.  Needless to say, that was NOT a good night for me.

Anyhow, back on subject.  It seemed like Ray Allen had a hard time adjusting to his role with the C's this season, a much lesser role than he's played throughout his career.  It seemed that he finally became comfortable being the 3rd option later on in the season.  But it kind of seems like he's back in that mode where he's just not comfortable out there right now.  Good to hear he played some good D last night though.  The offense will come eventually, he's far too good a shooter for this slump to continue much longer.

The Lakers come back from a 20 point deficit midway through the third quarter.

Kobe unleashed The Black Mamba and the Spurs didn't have an answer.

SEX!

The Celtics CAN be beat at home.

You guys are screwed, there is no way they can win at The Palace.

That's a shame, I really wanted a Lakers/Celtics series.

same here. i guess i can settle with lakers/pistons

I can't.  The Pistons would rape us.  I can't live through another 2004.

I wouldn't say there's no way.  I mean is it likely, probably not?  But they've certainly got a chance at least.  The Pistons have lost some home games in this round the past 2 years, so why not this year?

One positive for the C's was the return of Ray Allen.  Only the rest of the team outside of the big 3 decided to not show up tonight.  Usually Rondo plays well at home and not on the road, but he played a pretty poor game tonight.  I can't see him playing much worse in Detroit so as long as Ray can keep up his shooting I wouldn't put the Pistons in the finals just yet.  I also wouldn't be so quick to put the Lakers in there yet either.  There's still a lot of basketball to be played.

Aside from the action on the court, did anyone notice Rasheed Wallace singing along to "Paradise City" in the closing minutes of the 4th quarter tonight?  I thought that was great.  I think I'm a Rasheed fan now.

i think its still going to be Pistons and Spurs........ill be happy as long its not Lakers and Celtics, because the NBA wants that so badly and their officiating this postseason shows it...ill be happy with Lakers/pistons or spurs/celtics

Well...if you're a Celtics fan...would you rather have Allen in a slump and lose or win games without him?

I didn't want to be the one to say this, but....

Charles Barkley is....TURR-BULL!

Obviously as a Celtic fan I'd rather have them win regardless of who's struggling. It's interesting to note that Ray Allen has now scored 20+ points 3 times this post-season and the C's have lost all 3 of those games.  I think that's just a coincidence, at least I hope.  The Pistons got much better play from their role players last night, namely Rodney Stuckey.  The role players on the C's haven't shown up on the road yet, it's now or never.  They haven't HAD to win on the road, now it's a MUST if they are to continue.  We'll see what happens.

lakers vs celtics would rock, don't think it'll be like that but it would be awesome

The Lakers blew out San Antonio by 30.

What more do the haters want?

to do it again in SA

I just really hate Boston being called a BIG THREE.

Hell the Lakers have a better BIG THREE than Boston

Kobe, Gasol and Odom are way better than KG,Pierce and Allen.



The thing with Boston is, U have three guys who have underachieved their entire career and three guys who dont have that winners intangible that allows them to take over a game a la Kobe Bryant.

KG has always been waytoo unselfish.... I see Detroit taking this series.  Chauncey Billups isn even healthy.

Your hatred for the Celtics is quite obvious.  We get it.  KG is still among the best players in the NBA, maybe not the best like Kobe, but he's up there.  Pierce and Allen are still both all star caliber players.  Lamar Odom is a nice player, but not on their level.  As for not being able to take over a game.  Did you watch game 7 against Cleveland?  Is that not what Pierce did that game?  Maybe I was seeing things?  You can say all three have underachieved, OR you could look at it as they've never been on teams good enough to win it all.  Ray Allen's teams in Milwaukee and Seattle were NEVER good enough, same with Paul/Antoine's Celts teams, and the T'Wolves.  Don't forget Kobe had the pleasure of playing with a guy named Shaq in his prime.  That kind of helped him along.  I know you're hoping the C's lose to the Pistons so it can further back up your "underachiever" point, and that would lend some credence to it.  Their backs are against the wall right now.  We'll see how the BIG 3 respond, more importantly though, how the rest of the cast responds.  The BIG 3 (or whatever you want to call them) can't do it alone.

Taking over a game every once in a while, and having the ability to do it at will, are two different things.  Thats the difference between Pierce and Kobe.

C's just won convincingly at The Palace... Not over yet...

Oh I'm not trying to compare Pierce to Kobe, there is no comparison there.  I'll be the first to admit it, but I believe D stated that NONE of the Big 3 on the Celtics could take a game over like Kobe.  Well that's false, they can.  Obviously not on a consistent basis like Kobe, but they can get it done.

More importantly though, like I stated before, it's the rest of the guys outside the Big 3 that really matter.  They played great tonight, and that's the reason they were able to trounce the Pistons on their home floor.  Cassell, Perk, Posey, Rondo, et. al.  Great effort from the whole team tonight.  That's just what the doctor ordered.  I just hope they don't let up for game 4.  Keep it going C's.

Who thinks that Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy are going to engage in fisticuffs before the season is over?

I do.

I enjoy their banter during games.  It's entertaining.  Van Gundy asking Mark Jackson last night who took the SAT's for him was classic.

lol

yeah Mark Jackson is funny, he had some great years with the Pacers though. Solid PG.

Yeah the Celtics in 5, still...

Boston's big 3 are better than Lamar Odom isn't what Paul Pierce is... face it and Garnet is a different type of player than Kobe, althought Kobe is better and Allen is a much better shooter than Gasol even though he's struggled.

The Spurs gotta win tonight or it's over, if they lose tonight there's no way in hell they come back 4 in a row.

Come on Spurs! I think they will pull this one out tonight and game 4 too.

dude youre nuts.....Gasol is a slightly above average player...and Odom is garbage.....Kobe is the best player in the universe though...

Well in his defense, he HATES KG, and for that reason Allen and Pierce get lumped into the mix.  Did I mention KG is averaging 20 and 10 this post-season.  What a choke aritst?

Also, I wouldn't say Odom is garbage.  He's a very solid player.  Gasol too.  I'm willing to admit that, unlike some people who continue to berate KG, Allen, and Pierce, for little to no reason.

What a sorry game. 

They have to win the next one to make life easy for them.

Kobe Bryant's post game reaction:  "No Foul"

Kobe and Barry uberpizz0wnered Craig Sager after the game.

The stupid Lakers kept trying to give the game away.  I have a few gray hairs now.

Gasol should have at least made one of those free throws.  Kobe should have managed the clock better.  They made so many mistakes that could cost them in the championship round.

5 more victories to go.

Let's go Celtics, let's go!

Should be a great game tonight :beer:

Is anyone else getting sick of listening to Van Gundy?  I can't imagine being coached by this guy.

Thats funny.  I used to hate Van Gundy, but he's kinda growing on me. 

Damnit...

Well my Spurs lost a couple nights ago, good game though.

I predicted Celtics in 5, I was wrong... they'll get it in 6 though.

I say the Spurs still have a shot here. They beat LA on the road in a must win right? (this can happen)

then they come back home and you know the crowd will be nuts... and they can win there too... game 7 in LA will be very tough though and the emotions might be dried up for the Spurs (who are mostly hitting 30-32 in age)

Spurs can win this series. I have faith in them.

Celtics got it though.

Which is more appealing? Celts/Lakers or Celts/Spurs?

I like a Celts/Spurs matchup more...

I think the Celts have a good shot in Detroit....ESPECIALLY if Hamilton is out.

It was nice to see them play, for 2 qtrs, like the "mid season" Celts.

Dude, seriously.

Get the help you need.  There are 12 step programs and support groups if you can't afford rehab.

God bless you.

I love Duncan and all...but how can you resist the siren call of Lakers-Celtics???  I can't think of a more legendary matchup in an NBA Finals...and I think we're on our way there.   :yes:

I really don't want to make conflict but whatever...

Is that your way of "thinking you know me" ?

I mean get real dude... it's a message board man. Life goes on whether you post that or not... so what's your point clown?

tired of hearing about the no call on Fish


If SA do get FT's and win that game, u have the exact same fuckin sports pundits bitchin that the Shot clock didnt reset on Fish's shot which it should have and then there wouldnt have even been a final SA shot.

It all evened out, LA deserved to win and they did.

dont count out Detroit yet. They will take it to 7 and then anything can happen


I put 50 bucks on the money line for SA tonight.
I have a feeling this thing isnt over yet.

Oh, I had no idea you had real issues.  My bad.

With that, let me get to my point.

All the above scenarios you listed....they aren't going to happen.

The media has to have something to talk about.  If not for that, they would just photoshop Charles Barkley onto cartoons/weird people/obscure objects for the entire duration of the pregame program.

I really hope Detroit stretches it out to 7 games, but why on God's green earth did Allen shove Rip all the way down the key and not get called for an offensive foul?

To pick out ONE play from any game is ridiculous.  There were (and have been) bad calls on both sides of every game this playoffs, and will continue to be.  Rasheed was pissed about the reffing, and rightfully so.  The Celtics would've had equal rights had they lost the game.  The refs didn't decide the game, but they certainly made their mark with their calls and no calls.

As for the play with Fisher/Barry, a tough call no doubt.  Barry just didn't sell the call.  If he goes right up the moment he felt contact, instead of dribbling and moving back to take a 3, he gets the foul call.  I think he's more to blame then the officials on that one.  The one thing I can't stand though is people saying the refs can't call that a foul with 2 seconds left in the game.  That's a crock of shit.  If they can call that a foul in the opening seconds of a game, then they better damn well call that a foul in the closing seconds.  But again, I'm hoping the reason they didn't call it was because Barry did a poor job selling the foul and not because it happened with 2 seconds left.

I've always hated that "rule" as well.  A foul is a foul, whether it occurs in the 1st quarter with 6:24 to play or in the 4th quarter with .01 left.

Barry shouldn't have been a little pussy.  Hasn't he ever watched game footage of Kobe in the film room?  He should have just gone straight up instead of running away from it.  With the way the rules are, yes the refs made the correct call with the circumstances involved.

But seriously...the referees have been terrible every game in every series.  I don't think there has been one cleanly officiated game in the playoffs.

If they started calling fouls with seconds left in the game, the players would then TRULY decided the game amongst themselves.

16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4....3....2.....1

damn it now I HAVE to root for Boston... ::)

Oh please, as if you were rooting for the Lakers.  You would root for Detroit too. 

thats what im saying...i have to root for Boston even though I dont really lke Boston either....i just really dislike Kobe Bryant...not as a player...as a player I think he is phenomenal...the best in the world....I just think he is a horrible person..for obvious reasons...hard to root for a guy like that....but the media has a very short memory...its the way it is....

I don't like him as a person either.  That whole adultery thing and running Shaq out of town spoiled the Kobe Bryant experience for me.

But I don't know the guy, I will never meet him so all that doesn't matter to me.  He can make a mean jump shot, I'll tell you that much.

San Antonio's run is over.  Rebuilding, here we come!

(D, sorry you lost 50 on the game.)

true...it looks like the Spurs are on their way out....

They need to get rid of all those old geezers if they want a shot at at least one more championship run.

Yes, I'm talking to YOU Brent Barry, Robert Horry, Mike Finley, and yes Manu, you too.

Duncan will get his 20 and 10 for another 4 seasons, and Parker is still good.

they should get that guy Tony Trujillo. he will take them to the top  :hihi:

Unfortunately for the Spurs, they are one of the last teams to pick in the 1st round.

I project Trujillo to be a top 5 pick.  If he impresses the scouts at the rookie workouts, I could even see the Bulls picking him with the #1 selection in the draft.

I think, had Ginobli been healthy...the series might have gone down differently.

That being said...if BYNUM was healthy....I'm pretty sure the series would have gone down differently...I don't think the Spurs would have won a game.

If they were both healthy, again, I think it would have been a closer series....

But, 1/2 the NBA "dream finals" is in place.

Now the Celts gotta do their part....

Anyone know what the word on Rip playing for the pistons tonight is?

the offical report as of now is that it's uncertain.

I say he will play some. no way he sits out all the way

Damn looks like the SPurs did lose, that's cool. The series was actually closer than what it appeared to be.

Boston all the way now.

I gurantee the Lakers won't win the title...

eat that Archie my boy

I agree...unless the docs refuse to clear him...no way he sits.

And if they FORCE him to sit, I don't think the Pistons have a prayer tonight, home or not.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3418823

Hamilton says he's 'ready to go' as Pistons try to stay alive in East finals

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- The Detroit Pistons and their fans received good news Friday after Richard Hamilton proclaimed himself "ready to go" for Detroit's must-win Game 6 tonight against the Boston Celtics.

"I have no choice. This is do or die," Hamilton, who suffered a strained right elbow near the conclusion of the Pistons' Game 5 loss in Boston, said after the team's shootaround Friday.

After shooting with the team, Hamilton said he had discomfort in his right elbow, but would play through it.

"Once I get out there and the adrenaline is going, I'll be fine," Hamilton said. "I told my teammates, 'Don't look at me as handicap.' ... I'm fine. I'm ready to roll."

Detroit's leading scorer strained his elbow in the final seconds of Boston's 106-102 win on Wednesday night. X-rays were negative, and Hamilton's arm was in a sling as he left the arena. He finished with 25 points.

Detroit needs a win to extend the Eastern Conference finals to a seventh game. Hamilton is averaging 21.7 points, seven more points than any teammate in the playoffs.

My dream series.

The rivalry that I had only heard about from my dad and sports aficionados. 

Bring it on, I'm excited.


What am I supposed to eat?

I'm confused.

WOW best NBA finals in years right here.

I cannot wait

Lets go KOBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I remember being a kid and seeing Bird vs Magic

this is gonna be great!

Exactly dude, I've only seen that stuff on ESPN Classic.

I hope it lives up to the hype and we can get a new rivalry going.

5 more days!  AHHHH I can't wait!

Yeah unfortunately as a Celtic fan I became a true fan in 1987 so I missed out on their early 80's dominance.  I remember the "Showtime" Lakers beating the C's.  I remember Lenny Bias dying, Bird laying down on the sidelines to rest his back, Reggie Lewis dying, some horrible teams mixed in with some decent Pierce/Toine teams.  It's been a long journey to get back to this point.  Here's to a great series!

Stock up on munchies and lots of alcohol folks, we're in for one helluva' series ;)

 :beer:

This is weird cause I was always for the Celtics back when I was a kid and watching.

Now, with my utter hate for KG and Paul Pierce, I am rooting for LA


Kobe is my 4th fav player in the NBA and i really like Pau Gasol and Phil Jackson.

It's so on..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTkvcmFb6aM

Fuck the Celtics!

(Leave it to YouTube to get my young blood boiling.  Faldor, pilferk, I still love you guys!)

let's go lakers!

My only problem with that video is they show a lot of clips from previous years when the Celtics were terrible and the Lakers were, well, much better.  Like the time the Garden started chanting for Kobe.  I believe that was last year, when the C's were among the worst in the league.  The fans appreciate good basketball, and hadn't seen much for awhile.  They gave the ultimate respect to a fantastic performer that night.  As for Bibby's bandwagon fan comment.  Give me a break.  How dare someone playing for an Atlanta based team make such a comment.  One of the WORST sports cities in the US!  I don't think people in the city paid attention to the team until they played the C's in the playoffs.  Despite being a lottery team last year, and many years in recent times, the Celtic fans have continued to support the team and sell out the Garden.

Anyway, back to the video.  Maybe some clips of THIS years Celtic team.  That's all I'm saying.  Here's to adding something special to the greatest rivalry in the history of the NBA.

Well, that video didn't really get my blood boiling.

I got to watching old clips, like McHale clotheslining Rambis and all that other good stuff.

ESPN Classic is devoting a lot of airtime to the rivalry, and I have the whole week off so I'm going to enjoy the trip down memory lane.  :beer:

Yeah well, this definatley isn't the best finals ever, or even a top 5 for me... but it is a good matchup.

I'm so pulling for the Celtics. I hate the Lakers, and everything that they are.

I'm not a big Celtics fan, but I do think that Boston has the better team here.

Best NBA finals of all time: Rockets/Knicks 1994

Celtics in 7 games...that's my prediction.  My bro-in-law's a huge Lakers fan so I have to root for the Lakers even if I don't think they'll win.  After seeing the Garnett-Bill Russell interview, I'd be very happy for Garnett if the Celtics win the title.

I will say I always used to root for the Magic, Kareem, Worthy Lakers against the Celtics.  As a kid I used to cut out the bottom of a brown grocery bag and tape it up on the wall and shoot hoops during the games.  :)

I'd like to thank the NBA for killing all momentum in this series and for also driving me crazy with nervous energy.  This game needs to start yesterday.

This is their way of "promoting" the series.

I remember when NBC did Wednesday-Friday-Sunday-Wednesday games.  Seven and six days of, respectively, aren't enough.

Both teams will be rusty for the first half of the game.

The Celtics are finally back in the finals. I was 7 years old when I watched them lose to the lakers the last time they were there. I remember that game because my dad would make me watch every celtics game that came on tv.

After so many years I finally get to break out my old beat la sign. Yes I had one.  :hihi: And amazingly yes I still got it.  :hihi: Its exciting to be watching this again...to bad its not in the garden.

BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!! :smoking:

Celtics Beat L.A.!!!!  :hihi:

Game one goes to the Celtics in an impressive show of defense, especially in the fourth quarter. The Celtics just seemed to be playing with more intensity. You could really tell that these guys wanted this win tonight.  Bring on Game two.

BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!!  :smoking:

How about that KG put-back dunk in the 4th?!

No shit! That was awesome. He misses nine shots in a row but makes that fuckin awesome put-back that just makes you forget he missed 9 in a row. That dunk, and the save from back-court were two great plays that made me forget he was shooting so poorly down the stretch.  : ok: :smoking:

... and the fact that they won helps to let the poor shooting slide.   ;D

Kobe messed up.  This was his worst game in a long time.

He took so many bad shots when he could have passed the ball, and when he DID pass the ball, it was usually to someone in a white jersey.

When he was on the bench during the 4th, the reserves actually cut the lead down to four.  Kobe comes back in, the Celtics pull away.   >:(

And  :rofl: at Paul Pierce.  The way he acted when he was "injured" was sooooo funny.  It looked like the man was going to die, and then he comes back and kills Los Angeles.

We'll get Game 2.

regarless of how he acted, he did torch them...

1-0

Love the Celtics in this series...

Yeah, in Paul's defense (and obviously I'm biased) who is anyone to say that he wasn't really hurt?  He obviously felt something, it wasn't like he was trying to bait the refs into calling a foul or anything.  He most likely felt initial pain and was worried that it was something serious.  He said he heard something pop.  When he got back to the locker room he realized he wasn't as injured as he thought and thus returned with guns blazing.  We'll see if it hampers him at all the rest of the series.  Sometimes you can play through an injury initially but it worsens over the course of the next couple days and you're not nearly as effective.  We'll see.  As a Celtic fan, I hope he was just acting injured (though I really don't see that as realistic).

And as for Kobe and others saying how bad a shooting night he had.  You could say the exact same thing about Kevin Garnett.  He was missing some very makeable shots as well.  So we're even there.

Mr. Fancy Pants Pau Gasol needs to learn how to rebound and stop being a little 'fraidy-cat.

I hate the 3-4 days between each game. It kills momentum and interest. The series should be every 2 days, just like in the regular season.

Though it does help Paul Pierce's knee.  That is, if you believe it was actually injured in the first place.  He said if game 2 was Friday he wouldn't have been able to play.  Take that for what it's worth.

i think his injury was legit....ask yourself this...why in a tight game would he purposely take himself out of it?  that makes no sense...I think he really thought he fucked himself up and then it turned out not to be as bad...he was limping bad into his car I heard after the game

He was definitely hurt. I think he got more or less Charlie Horsed. u  know pretty much where you are incapacitated and feel like your leg is exploding. the pain goes away after about 10 minutes but remains sore.

It was definitely a huge lift.


what is gonna be the big factor however is the 2-3-2 format.

I fucking hate this format

they do it 2-2-1-1-1 the entire playoff until the final and its ridiculous to change. they do it cause of travel and TV but still.

if LA wins game 2 and I believe they will. they have a huge advantage goin home for 3.

just ask the Dallas Mavericks. They led 2-0 went to Miami and lost 3 games.

that isnt homecourt advantage at all.

cause everyone knows the most pivotal game in a 7 game series is game 5.  the most pivotal game should not be played on the road. its totally unfair.

What's up with Pierce hate? The fucker has always attempted to play through injury through most of his career. It was obvious to anybody watching that he was hurting intially. It is possible for you to get a bad bump and feel extreme pain only for it to waiver after a few minutes. It wasn't until they got back to the locker room that he attempted to walk and than even limped a little at different times during the rest of the game.

The series goes back to 1 day between games as I believe its Sunday, tuesday, thursday, than 2 days off again and sunday, tuesday, thurday again if it goes to 7. Stupid NBA wierd schedules. Why the fuck would you need two days off after game one yet only one day off between 2 and 3 when game three takes place on the other side of the country? You would think they would get an extra day off there. They play late sunday than fly cross country and play tuesday night. Suck. 



I'm not worried about the celtics getting swept in L.A. They will win at least one. They played great on the road during the regular season and finally got over the play-off slump against detroit. If the lakers win it, they will win it in Boston. But fuck that. Celtics are poised to sweep baby!  :rofl:

BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!!  :smoking:

I was worried about the 2-3-2 format initially but the more I think about it, I just don't see either team ever winning 3 straight games in this series regardless of where the games are played.  Pierce always plays well back home in LA too.  So today is obviously an important game for both teams, but maybe moreso for the Lakers.  If the C's can go up 2-0 all they have to do is steal one game in LA, then they just have to win 1 more at home in game 6 OR 7.

the 2-3-2 format has always heavily favored the team with home court...imo....think about it....if you have home court in that format all you have to do is win 2 of the first 5 games....if you do that, your opponent has to win the title on YOUR home court...the Celtics only need 1 win now to force the Lakers to have to win the title in Boston.....

It's 5 on 8.  The Lakers are playing against the Celtics and the fucking zebras with whistles in their mouths.

Embarrassing for Boston to blow a 24 point lead, the Lakers have an assload of moment heading to Staples.

BUT...they shouldn't have to play like shit the whole game and then come alive at the end.

The Lakers aren't penetrating enough and Phil needs to dump his routine of not taking timeouts when the other team goes on a run.

It's home court officiating.  Lakers got it in the Western Conference Finals, too.  Everyone gets it.  If it goes on in LA, then bitch all you want.  But you've seen 2 games played in Boston.....I don't think you should be surprised the refs (for right or wrong) swallow the whistles for the Celts in the Garden.   

On giving up the lead: the Celts have had the same problem all year...they have 2 speeds:  Fast and Sluggish.  You saw it earlier in the playoffs too....against both Cleveland and Detroit, where big leads evaporated but they managed to hold on and win.  They just can't "coast", but if they don't at least TRY to "coast" at the end of games when they have big leads, the other teams get pissed off because they're "running up the score".

Eventually, I expect it's gonna bite them in the ass.  Almost did, last night, but not quite.

As for momentum....I'm not sure.  If the Lakers had managed to pull out the win, I'd agree.  Now, the Lakers are flat out desperate.  I'm not sure that's "momentum"....but they have to play like there's no tomorrow because, if they lose the next game, they're pretty much fucked.

The Celts have been, by a fair bit, the better team on the floor the last two games.  I don't think there's ANY question about that.  The Lakers know if they'd managed to win last night, they would've been stealing one......they had the hands in the back pocket, fingers on the wallet, but just couldn't make the lift.  Now they've gotta go home an play better.  Credit the Celts defense for making the Lakers look REALLY uncomfortabe....the matchups just work really well for them...and hope Phil can make some adjustments, and the home crowd can provide them with an energy boost.  Otherwise, the Lakers are in trouble.

Yeah, I don't buy the whole momentum thing.  If the Lakers want to take something out of game 2 obviously it's coming back from the dead and making a game of it.  BUT I certainly don't expect the C's to fold because of that.  Maybe the Lakers found out some things they can do successfully on offense with that run, though the Celitcs were obviously not at their peak on the defensive end so that remains to be seen.  As Pilferk said though, the Celts have had a tendancy to let up all season long and especially in the playoffs.  They got trounced in game 3 in both the Atlanta and Cleveland series (well more in Cleveland).  So I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers came out and win game 3 handily.  However, if that were to happen, I wouldn't exactly point to the momentum that they fed off of from the end of game 2.  If the Lakers can't build up momentum from being down 0-2 and going back home alone, then they've got problems.

As for the fouls.  Again as Pilferk mentioned, and it should be no surprise, the home court officiating.  I'm fully expecting the tides to turn in LA.  Although the numbers may not be quite as astonishing.  Let's face it, the Celtics have been the more aggressive team on the offensive end, forcing the action.  Taking the ball to the hole, thus creating contact and getting fouls called.  The Lakers have been a perimeter oriented team, standing around the perimeter taking jump shots.  That style is a lot less conducive to getting to the free throw line.  And while on the subject.  I know a lot of people were probably surprised (maybe infuriated) that Leon Powe had more free throw attempts than the whole Laker team.  I'm pretty sure he was among the league leaders for free throw attempts per 48 minutes.  He's an aggressive low post player who knows how to get to the line.  It wasn't like it was a one game thing.  Although I've gotta say, having that whole feature on him at halftime made it look like it was either meant to be or made to happen.  I'll go with meant to be though.

Regardless of all the complaints or laments, the Celtics lead 2-0.  Now it's off to LA.  Back home for Paul and Leon.  Go Celtics!!!

the 2-3-2 format is great!

It changes it up a bit, and the home advantage team does get 2 games first,

the 3 in the middle is fine, because the home advantage team should be able to still 1 of the 3, then the last 2 are back at home.

It's a good change.

What's really dumb? How they made the first round a best of 7 a few years back. I really liked the quicker first round

The 2-3-2 format works fine for me, my biggest complaint is the fact that the change of format in the finals to account for east to west travel, but then space out the first and last two games so much. To me it just kills the flow of the series...

The celtics dominated the lakers for three and a half quaters but as usual the fourth quarter comes, they got a big lead, and they decide to phone it in. As someone said its gonna bite em in the ass. As for the lakers I really expected them to play better. They found some things that worked at the end of the game but everybody knows the celtics were just waiting for the clock to expire. But perhaps they can find something that works.

I expect the Lakers to come out in desperation mode in game 3 and play really tough basketball. They really need to figure out ways to drive on the celtics and match the physical play without giving up so many fouls. I know some were questionable but shit the celtics were on the line, what 38 times? And you saw early in the game that these refs were calling little contact as a foul from the start of the game and the celtics seemed to adjust. The lakers seemed to want to play like the celtics did in game 1 and the reffing in this game was not gonna allow it.

Series now 2-0 for the Celtics!!!!  :hihi: Bring on game three and one step closer to a sweep.  : ok:

BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!!  :smoking:

I don't think they will sweep, but they might.

It looks like a 4-2 series Celtics at this point

You know the officiating is terrible when ESPN, with its East coast/Boston bias is calling "foul."

The Lakers may have the favor returned, but it won't be by such a vast margin.

POWE had more attempts than the whole L.A. team!  You all have to admit, a lot of the fouls called were cheap.

But enough of that, there's a GAME TOMORROW!  8)

Even though my guys are losing, as a basketball fan, this is a great series.

The Lakers definitely figured some things out to break down the fabled Boston D.

Call me a homer, and I am.  But I just don't think there were THAT many bad calls/no calls in Boston.  The Celtics were the more aggressive team, taking the ball to the hole.  The Lakers stood around shooting jump shots.  Obviously the team driving to the hoop is gonna pick up more fouls.  The C's were crushed from the line in the Cleveland series because the Cavs were the aggressor in that series.  The C's were the perimeter team.  You can't just discount that FACT.  And Leon Powe, once again, averaged the most FTA's for reserves this year and was among the league leaders in FTA per 48 minutes.  That wasn't exactly an aberration.  It's happened before.  Obviously just looking at the numbers it looks ridiculous and lopsided.  But if you really looked at how each team played it's tough to argue why there was such a disparity.  Obviously Laker fans, coaches, players are gonna voice their displeasure with the refs in hopes that that's the real problem and that it will be corrected back at home.  We'll see.  I gotta tell you though, if the Lakers play the same kind of perimeter oriented game they may end up on the short end of the stick again (in the free throw department at least).

hahaha This is the by far the funniest post I have ever read on this board...in any topic!  You are a LAKER fan and you are talking about being on the receiving end of bad officiating?!?!  The only reason the Lakers are even in the Finals is because the referees put them there...Try being a fan of a small market team like the Utah Jazz like I am...then come to me with this ref bullshit...you do realize that Kobe Bryant gets a foul call everytime a defender breathes on him or even looks at him the wrong way right??  How about the refs bailing the Lakers out in Game 5 against Utah?   How about the foul call when Luke Walton was apparently attempting a sky hook from 3 point land in the fourth quater of that game? How about the terrible job they did in the Spurs series? Don't worry about it you will get plenty of calls when the series moves back to L.A...I expect to see Kobe Bryant at the free thow line about 20 times in Game 3......bad officiating...you have got to be kidding me

I hope God takes that into account!  :)


Thanks?

Peopleneed to stop overreacting.

Boston took care of home court. The series doesnt start till a road team wins. So LA are still fine as long as they win.

if u are a gambling man, put your life savings on LA in game 3. they will not lose game 3.


LA are in a horrible situation though, they have to win all three at home or Boston will have 2 shots to  knock them out.


Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom have got to play like superstars.

Once LA got Gasol, I think they shouldve traded Odom.

Boston have gotten huge contributions from people u wouldnt expect and that shit doesnt happen on the road. u wont see Leon Powe doing that shit in games 3-5.

Its reallysimple if u are LA. make KG beat u.

Stop doubling him 18 feet from the basket. thats just retarded. KG is so unselfish, he isnt gonna score 30 on u like Pierce did.

reminds me of Dallas/Miami. Dallas kept double teaming Shaq when he was basically a decoy and washed up that year instead of doubling and taking the ball out of Wade's hands.

Let Pierce score his 25-30 and just play great team D on everyone else and u will win the game.

put Kobe on Pierce in the closing minutes if its close.

double teaming KG 20 feet from the basket causes horrible scrambles and boston have the shooters and ballhandlers to destroy that defensive strategy.

Kobe will turn back into Kobe, Gasol and Odom will wake up in LA and they will go on a tear.

It will be 2-2 and everyone will start jumping on the Laker bandwagon like the sky has fallen in Boston

Playoffs bring out the greatest in hyperbole.

The Lakers did what they had to do, and they took the rock to the rim.

Sasha provided a HUGE lift off the bench.

Pau and Odom were trash, at least they made a few plays down the stretch.

Fuck P.J. Brown.

Ray Allen shouldn't score so many points.  He was 5 out of 5 from three point land at one point.

KG and Pierce were shut down, excellent!

Fuck P.J. Brown.

Oh, and the game would have been a blow out had Kobe and Pau made their free throws.

M-V-P!  M-V-P!

Why you hatin' on P.J. Brown so much?  What did he ever do? 

Celts played about as poorly as they could've on the offensive end outside of Ray Allen, yet they STILL had a chance down the stretch.  If only Eddie House made that chippy with around a minute to play to tie or cut the lead to 1, can't remember exactly.  Speaking of House, the C's seemed to be more effective tonight with him on the court instead of Rondo.  Rondo has struggled on the road in the playoffs.  Maybe something to look at the next 2 games.  Eddie may get increased minutes, Rondo a little less, and Cassell may have a permanent seat on the bench yet he'll somehow find a way to get some shots off from there.

I fully expected the Lakers to win tonight, although I was hoping the Celts would make a good showing.  And they did, and darnit they could've won.  Well, on to game 4.

Being a little bitch toward Farmar?

I'm hating on the announcers. According to them KG cheats and gets away with all kinds of shit, the celtics only won game 2 because the refs not because the lakers played like shit for 3 quarters and every play Kobe Bryant does is the best thing anybody has ever seen. I mean damn I know Kobe is great but fuck they act as if every single good play he makes is the best play ever made.

I expected the Celtics to come out flat on the road because they were 2-0 and thats just what they do sometimes. They came out flat. And even with the crappy play of PP and KG they still could of pulled it out. KG has lost his jumper this series. Lets see if he can get it back. The lakers finally decided to drive to the basket and they played more physical in this game than they did combined in the last two. Both teams shot poorly from the line. I did expect and still do expect the celtics to win the middle game in this 3 game stretch. Celtics will win it in 6. 

BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!! :smoking:

try watching clips of Jordan.  The announcers orgazm over a crossover

I didn't understand or agree with the Celtics defensive strategy down the stretch last night.  The last 3 possessions, before Lamar Odom stupidly took the ball to the rack and picked up an offensive foul when the Celts were letting the clock run out.

Anyhow, the Celtics decided to double Kobe Bryant, or trap him, however you want to put it, at HALF COURT.  Leaving Sasha wide open for a 3 in the corner.  Kobe's a great player, and deserves to be double teamed.  But not at half court.  As great as he is, he ain't gonna hurt you from half court.  Wait till he gets inside the 3 point line to double team the man.  Then the next 2 possessions they had Allen match up one on one with Kobe, and while he did an admirable job he was really no match for Kobe.  That's when they could've double teamed him, he was inside the 3 point line and obviously looking to take the shot.  Give Ray some help in THAT situation, not at half court.  Not that that's the reason the Celts lost, but a stop or 2 there sure would've helped, along with Eddie House not missing a 10 footer.

Shitty thing for LA is Pierce and KG will come out of a 1 game funk... Gasol and Odom have looked like shit for three games and I don't see that changing. Based on how bad Boston played, and still had a chance to take it in the final minutes, I can't see the Lakers taking 3 in LA. And they will not win 2 in Boston, so to put it simply.... Series over.

I wouldn't declare the series over yet.  Way too much basketball to be played to do that.  Although I hope you're right, and I do think the C's have a good chance at winning 1 game in LA.  They kept their composure last night which was good to see.  They kept themselves within striking distance.  And I do expect KG and Pierce to play better the next 2 games.  Odom has been garbage, Gasol played well in the first half of game 2 though.  The Lakers are soft up front though.  That frontline can be and should be dominated by the Celtics.  If only KG planted himself in the paint.  He, Kendrick, PJ, Powe should be able to have their way with those guys.

There are 4 games remaining, half of which are played in Boston. Do you really expect the Lakers team that we have seen through the last three games to win 3 out of the 4 remaining? Which would mean they will have to either sweep LA or if Boston takes 1 in LA they have to take the last 2 in Boston... I don't see how they do it.

Well L.A. won game 3.

i was surprised. i thought this was going to be a sweep.

Gasol came on later, very late and Kobe was ridiculous once again.

2-1, if Boston wins game 4, this series is over, I know teams have come back from 3-1, but against this Boston team? Not happening.

Game 4 is key, Boston wins the title in my eyes if they wins this game, if L.A. wins this game, I think the Lakers are going to claw back in this series and win the title in 7. Pivitol game, just like game 3 was.

But are they?  Gasol and Odom were in a funk, as were KG and Pierce, so it evened out in the end.  The team with fewer players in funks will come out on the top.

Series over

My friend, with people like you, I'm glad they play the games instead of leaving it up to the so called "experts."

I'm no expert... I'm just saying I don't see how LA takes 3 of the next 4 (two of which are in Boston).

Also Pierce and KG were only off the first game in LA, Gasol and Odom haven't shown up yet this series (with the exception of one quarter for Gasol in Game 2).

So in my non-expert opinion... I don't think LA can take either of the Boston games... Series Over.

It is going to be a battle, LA are no slouches. But in the end, I predict Boston to win in 7.

How about that game???!!! ;D  The Celtics just finished one of the greatest comebacks in NBA Finals History. In fact, the first team to comeback when trailing by 21 in the first quarter. Give it up to the Celtics defense who after playing like shit in the first  half, came out and shut down the lakers in the second. Celtics lead 3-1 baby!!!!!!!  ;D

Unbelievable.

BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!! BEAT L.A.!!!!  :smoking:

If you give away a 24 point lead, you deserve to lose.

End of.

Not all the time Archie.  The Celtics nearly blew a 24 point lead in game, yet still held on to win. 

What a game!  What a comeback!  What a win! 

How about Kobe throwing his teammates under the bus in the post-game press conference?  Looks like Curt Schilling may have been right.  Kobe may be a great player, but he's far from a great leader.

Anyway, this night belongs to the Celtics.  A win of historic proportions. One more to go.

Go C's!!!

anyone ever watch ESPN's First Take or 1st and 10?


Skip Bayless has always been dead on about Kobe but most laugh in his face.

he says the thing that makes it impossible for him to be in the same sentence as Micheal Jordan is the fact he is a primadonna and isnt a good leader.

Curt Schilling said Kobe was cursing his teammates and just acting awful.

U know how hard it is to have confidence and play with someone like that?


I think this series is making Kobe look very overrated. He is a great player but Im not sure he has had one good game in this series.

I have argued in the past and I keep going back and forth, but I believe Lebron James is better than Kobe.

Lebron took boston 7 with a much worse team.

Boston is a cheap team, I can't believe the Lake show is rolling over the way they are.

Ok, Boston WAS a cheap team.  I can't dis them after the way they came back.  Good for them for smelling the victory and going for it.

D, I totally agree with you, Lebron is definitely better than Kobe.  No doubt.   :peace:

Let's give the Celtic defense a little credit for Kobe's struggles.  He played pretty well in game 3 but was pretty much held in check.  Is he better than LeBron.  That's debateable.  But let's not forget how much James struggled the first 3 or 4 games of that series.  People were saying similar things about him then. 
I really think it comes down to matchups.  Atlanta gave Boston fits with their extreme athleticism.  Cleveland gave them trouble with their toughness.  This is a bad matchup for the Lakers.  The Celtics are more athletic, tougher, and more aggressive. Everyone seems to love the Western Conference with all the offense, but as the saying goes "defense wins championshis".  Lakers are a very good offensive team that has clicked for about 4 quarters in this series.  They've been neutralized the rest of the way.
And on a sidenote, something most Celtic fans couldn't have expected.  Doc Rivers has completely outcoached and outclassed the "Zen Master".  They've outscored the Lakers coming out of halftime in the 3rd quarter by more than 8 points in each game this series.  Doc has ran circles around Phil.
With all that being said, still one more win to go.
Go C's!!!

Excellent game last night boys and girls!

Had to love Kobe's foul on Pierce with 45.6 seconds left in the 4th quarter :rofl:

Pierce sold it absolutely perfectly :hihi:

I fell asleep early last nite thinking LA had game 4 in the bag...apparently not!

I read in the last 5 minutes it was a 21-3 run for Boston. Lakers blew a 24 point lead. Holy shit!!

This has been Kobe's MO since day 1. He is a team cancer. Look at the termoil he caused when the lakers were at the top of their game durring the Championship run...

I think it is laughable to compare him to Jordan.

 

He was selling it before there was even contact.   :o

I wonder how well Lebron would do on a team with someone like Shaq or Gasol? 

If Lebron were on LA instead of Kobe, they would win the title.

Remember Kobe against Phoenix in that game 7 when he took zero shots in the 2nd half..........

D, Lebron is amazing, but I'm just not sold on LA's supporting cast.  As much as the NBA is about the "stars," you still need either multiple stars or a solid supporting cast.  It seems Boston's got all the above this year.  A core of Garnett and Pierce is definitely imposing.

True, Gasol was always a bit overrated in Memphis and basically LA are behind cause they play shit defense and Boston have the best defense.

Kobe however, hasnt been spectacular.

Ive always thought Odom was one of the most overrated players EVER.

Still

Look at Cleveland. they have nothing remotely resembling Gasol or Odom and they took Boston 7.



Im still not sold on LA.

With Bynum back, they need to ship Odom for a defensive stopper and a 6th man.

Im not sure Odom,Gasol and Bynum can all three co exist.

that would knock Odom down to a 4th option.....

If only Odom did have as much he did in the first half.

Pau Gasol has a limp wrist and uses an umbrella as his primary mode of transportation.

I dont think its really fair to trash Pau Gasol cause he is dealing with one of the all time greatest defenders of all time in KG. Tim Duncan struggles against KG.

the blame is on Kobe.

He was 9-26 I think in game 1 which is attrocious, only 6-19 in the game 4 loss.

I agree with Curt Schilling that Kobe is a great player, but horrible leader....he is also NO Michael Jordan.....for a few reasons...first off Michael Jordan would have never let that happen last night....and another Michael Jordan would not have lost to Detroit in 04 with Shaq, Malone, Fisher, and Payton on his team....

Jordan>Kobe Bryant hopped up on steroids and with a jetpack on his back.

(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6509/alleniversonlargedv8.jpg)

"The Answer" > everyone ;)

"Practice?  We talkin' 'bout practice?  I'm the M V P!!?  Practice?"   :hihi:

Allen Iverson

maybe the most overrated player in NBA history

His career scoring average of 27.8 points per game is third all-time behind only Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain.

Iverson is one of only 30 players in NBA history to score over 20,000 points in his career, and he was the 6th fastest in the history of the game to achieve this feat.

Iverson's trademark crossover dribble is regarded as one of the most effective moves in the game,making him difficult for a defender to contain in one-on-one play.

Iverson is also known for his ability to draw fouls, at times seeming to get the free-throw line almost at will.

He is regularly one of the NBA's leaders in free throws attempted, and in free throw percentage.

Iverson has averaged 6.2 assists per game over his career. He has also averaged 3.9 rebounds per game.

On defense, Iverson is also an adept ball-thief and is known for playing the passing lanes. He regularly ranks among the league leaders in steals and averages over 2 steals per game for his entire career.

Iverson is still generally regarded as one of the best guards to ever play the game, as evidenced by his being named the starting point guard for the Eastern Conference in the NBA All-Star Game for the past seven consecutive seasons.

Iverson's ability to effectively employ such a versatile combination of scoring methods ? driving to the basket, drawing fouls, shooting from outside, and creating his own shot off of the dribble ? all at only six feet tall, has made him one of the most distinctive and dominant players in NBA history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Iverson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Iverson)

 ;)

D, just wondering are there any good players in the NBA that don't play on the Mavericks?  You think KG, Pierce, and Allen are all overrated and underachievers.  You think Kobe's overrated, now Iverson.  You once stated that the trio of Gasol, Odom, and Bryant were WAY better than Pierce, Allen, and KG but have seemed to change your tune on that due to recent events.  You now think Odom is overrated and aren't a big fan of Gasol.  Are there any good players in the NBA who aren't overrated in your opinion?

No way D.  Iverson, while in my eyes an a-hole, is tremendously talented.  The man is a lock for the Hall of Fame when he retires, he's that good.  He's still quick, but in his prime I've never seen quicker.  Axlsmainman posted some great numbers. 
 :peace:

Iverson is a great player but he plays horrible team basketball. I would hate for this guy to be on my team.

he is a ballstopper.

He dominates the basketball so his 6 assists are inflated. he shoots a lousy FG percentage and is a horrible defensive player.

he may score 3o but the guy he is guarding almost erases that. He doesnt make anyone o his team better and he has zero championship intangibles.



Kobe is overrated in the context of Micheal Jordan. He is a great player but people were trying to put him on the same pedestal as jordan and in that regard he is overrated.


I say KG is overrated simply because some people claim if u put KG on San Antonio he would have 4 rings instead of Duncan and I dont believe that.

So yeah, KG is overrated in some regards because he cant really put a team on his back offensively.

D, I respect you and your opinions, but we don't seem to see eye to eye.  For one I think Iverson is a much better defensive player than you give him credit for, especially taking into account how good of an offensive player he is.  He's undersized, but at 6'0" you'd be hard pressed to find a more aggressive/better defender. 

How can you even compare Duncan and Garnett as far as championships go?  Has Duncan not been on far better teams than KG till this year?  Maybe I've missed something.  It seems you expect ONE guy to be able to take a team to the promised land when that's just not the case.  Every all time great has had some help along the way.  You tell me one guy who could fit that role from KG's days with the T'Wolves?  That's right, there was no one.  He was all alone.  This year he has some SERIOUS support, and look what has happened.  Amazing, huh?

I really don't see your argument on how you replace KG for Duncan and the Spurs don't win.  Do you think the T'Wolves would've won if they had Duncan?

I'm sorry D, but I think you're mistaken.

And just while we're at it, when has Tim Duncan ever taken the game over offensively?  I view he and KG as comprable players.  Great on both sides of the ball.  I don't remember ever saying that Duncan was an unstopable force on offense though.  Good yes, great on D, yes.  Much like Garnett.  I really don't see your point here.

Anyway, Go Celtics!!!

+1

I hate repeating myself.

Tim Duncan won 3 championships with an aging broken down David robinson and really no other superstars. he had Stephen Jackson...........



the last two he didnt have another top 20 player on his team.


Kobe has Gasol

KG has Paul Pierce who is one of the top 5 players at his position.

KG came out of a weak East.


TD takes over the game offensively. U obviously didnt watch the finals cause he would have MONSTER games.  KG shys away in big moments, Duncan is as clutch as it comes.

TD is the best PF to ever play the game. KG probably isnt even top 5 in the last 20 years of players.

I personally think Dirk Nowitzki is better than KG. Dirk doesnt have any other all stars on his team and should've won a title.

it took KG playing with 2 other hall of famers in a horrible Eastern conference and they still barely beat Atlanta and Cleveland. Had Chauncey Billups not been injured, Im not sure they are here. LA have unravelled thanks to primadonna Kobe.

1.Duncan
2.Malone
3.McHale
4. Barkley
5. Dirk Nowitzki

Faldor I agree with you about D, everyone is apparently overated...but I think he is right on Iverson...dont get me wrong the guy played HARDER than anyone...especially with a huge size disadvantage....but i remember PLENTY of playoff games where Iverson shot something in the range of 5-30...especially during that 2001 playoff run.....Iverson is a very good player....but not great....def not the "answer"

D, did you just put Dirk Nowitski on the Top 5 greatest power forwards of all time?  are you fucking kidding me?  Talk about overated players...MVP my ass...MVP's dont get bounced out of the first round by 8th seeded teams....and it wasnt even close....they got ROCKED....

Okay D, it's obvious you will never give the Celtics and/or KG the credit they deserve so I'll stop looking for that from you.  A couple weeks ago you were saying how overrated the current "Big 3" are and how they were all underachievers.  Now your saying KG is succeeding because he's playing with 2 Hall of Famers.  Your running around in circles.  And good point about Dirk Plitt-Mania.  Sure the C's went to 7 games with the Cavs and Hawks, but you know what, they won those series.  The same can't be said about Dirk.  And let's stop with the whole Western Conference dominance, because I know that's where you'll go.  The Celtics are a better team than ANY Western Conference team.  They're proving it now.  It's a different style of play out West.  More offensive minded.  Cleveland was a good defensive team, the C's had trouble on offense and were forced to 7 games.  The Hawks were athletic and gave the C's fits in Atlanta.  The Lakers aren't a good defensive team and are not very athletic.  66 wins in the regular season, a great record against the West, but that's not good enough for you.  That's fine, I'll take a championship with one more win.

notice my list, i said last 20 years.


Dirk is a 7footer who has revolutionized the game for big men.

keep in mind, he has ZERO hall of famers and ZERO all stars on his team.

I said the big three are overrated in comparison to the REAL big three in Bird,Parish and Mchale.

Boston are not better than every team in the west.

Boston dont beat SA or Phoenix

LA got the luckiest draw of any team possible in the west.

they got Denver who just suck and have two of the most overrated players ever in AI and Carmelo

They then got Utah who are still figuring it out and are a player away.

after that, they get a SA team who was pushed to the brink by two amazing western conference teams in Phoenix and NO so their gas tank was drained when they met LA.

Boston struggled against Atlanta

Struggled against cleveland who had they  not traded Hughes and Gooden, WOULDVE beaten Boston, they also lost a huge part of their team "Daniel Gibson" in that series.

Against Detroit, Chauncey wasnt 100 percent or i dont think they beat Det.

point with KG/TD is this:

No way if u trade places atlanta takes a TD led Boston team to 7.

 :rant:  D!  You rippin' my Syracuse homeys?  Carmello is a phenomenal talent.  Give him time.  The AI/Anthony combo couldn't be worse for 'melo.  I'll forgive you this time since you're a nice guy!  :)

D, AI is a strange kind of player.  With the right supporting cast, the guy is amazing.  When he was with Philly, I was hoping they could have landed an aging Rodman.  AI needs to be surrounded with solid defenders who don't need to shoot.  'melo and AI both need 20 shots a game.  It's not a good fit.  Also, there's no way Iverson is a bad defender. 

Garnett had a bad situation with the T-wolves, he needed to be surrounded by a supporting cast that could at least tie their own shoes...they couldn't.   :hihi:  I really like KG.  Personally, I'll stick with Duncan as the best ever.  I've seen him take over games on O and D.  Class act too. 

When talking power forwards, as a Syracuse fan, I'd be remiss not to mention Karl Malone's quote on Derrick Coleman...Malone had said DC would be the best power forward ever...if he wanted to be.  Methinks DC liked doughnuts better than practice.  :-[  Damn shame.  :(
   

D, I love how you state it as fact that Boston wouldn't be able to beat San Antonio or Phoenix.  You do realize they beat the Spurs both times they played them this year and split with the Suns including a 20 point win at home.  I'm sure those wins must've come at traumatic times for the Spurs and Suns though.  There must be some reason they won those games other than they ARE the BETTER TEAM.  And they wouldn't have beaten the Pistons with a healthy Billups or the Cavaliers with a healthy Gibson.  Obviously we'll never know, since injuries occured and certain teams lost.  Hey, you think what you want.  They've beaten every team they've played, and that's all that matters.

As for tonight, I'm sure you were the happiest non-Laker fan in the world when KG missed those two free throws down the stretch.  Bad game for KG tonight, no argument there.  And Pierce had that crucial turnover, despite playing a fantastic game.  He has a tendancy to turn the ball over, but it was a great defensive play by Kobe.  Could've been called a foul, possibly if the game was in Boston.  But that's not getting called in LA.  I still think Boston is the better team.  They'll just have to win it on their home floor now.  On to game 6.

People use too much fantasy instead of what they really bring to a team.


Carmelo Anthony shoots and scores

he helps no one else on his team. He cant make anyone better and plays HORRIBLE defense. he isnt a good rebounder for his height and position, not a good passer and doesnt show the passion u would want to see from your franchise player.

KG coming up small again

13pts in a close out game.

The thing that pisses me off about KG so much is, he could be one of the most dominate players EVER but he chooses not to be for whatever reasons.  He is way too passive and doesnt have that hard of a lion on the offensive end.

I think the Lakers are afraid of winning, I really do.

WTF is up with blowing TWO double digit leads!?

The Lakers lucked away with a win, at least the Celtics can celebrate at the Garden.

(AI and 'melo have found each other.  Two street thugs who will never win at a professional level.  Fuck them.)

You're right about Garnett to a point.  He is WAY too unselfish at times.  I'm screaming at him nonstop to take over offensively.  Pau Gasol can't cover him one on one.  There's just no way.  The times he does take him to the basket, he scores.  Sometimes he's doubled, so then I understand to kick the ball out.  He's got to get on the block way more, he stands around the top of the paint for the most part.  I know that's a big part of his game, but he is by far the best frontcourt player in this series.  There is no one on the Lakers who can match up with him down low.  So for that, I agree.

But, offense is only one part of his game.  He's still rebounding like a champ and playing great defense.  So while he did come up small on the offensive side of the ball, he did play well in other areas.  Hopefully he'll play better at home in game 6.  More importantly, hopefully he won't have to play well in a game 7.  Whatever it takes, get this over in 6.

Yeah it was a weird trend these last 2 games.  The Lakers jumping out to a huge lead, only for the Celtics to come right back at them.  On the one hand you could say the C's are clearly the better team being able to come back from such large deficits on the road.  Then again, what's up with the Celtics getting off to such slow starts and digging themselves in a hole?  Could one of these teams play consistent basketball for 48 minutes?  I know the NBA is filled with runs, but this is beginning to get re-god-damn-diculous!

I agree Faldor that KG is a pheonomenal talent.

I say he is overrated only because of the free pass everyone gives him.

He should dominate Pau Gasol. Gasol cannot guard him in the post. Garnett however is content with being a Scottie Pippen type when he should be the Jordan. He has every skill, every tool and all the ability to be unstoppable but he stops himself and lets the other team off the hook.


That is why I am so hard on him.

Paul Pierce has really stepped his game up in the finals and is finally earning some of the respect he deserves. Here is a guy who floated in obscurity because of a horrible team. Now the world is seeing what a great player he is.

You're right about Pierce.  He has been a great talent for years but hasn't gotten the respect he deserved.  I've got friends who are Celtic fans who have statec how much Pierce has sucked, and how he's not even among the top 30 players in the NBA.  They've changed their minds now though and he's finally getting the respect he deserves. 
People were shocked at Bob Ryan's comment that Pierce is the best scorer in Celtics history.  Tommy Heinsohn, a Celtic legend and broadcaster for 20+ years was saying that years ago.  He's right up there with Bird.
One more thing on KG. I heard this this morning, and it surprised me.  He has scored over 500 points this post-seaon, and only one other Celtic has ever done that, Larry Bird.  Obviously he's played more post-season games with the best of 7's all the way through and the 2 game 7's.  I would've thought Pierce would have more points than KG though.  Maybe I heard it wrong, I swear they said KG though.

Here's my take, if anyone cares.

Duncan is great, and he only won 2 with Robinson, not 3.

Allen Iverson is a punk and I can't stand that homo, but he's really good, especially considering he's like 27ppg for his career and he's 6' tall.

On another note, I've been gone for a while. The Lakers are horrible for blowing that lead, I thought that game was dust. I love how they blowed it though as I can't stand them.

They also were very fortunate last night.

Celtics will get it game 6.

It's over people. Terrible defense by the Lakes. Over baby

Tough pill for LA to swallow,t hey should be up 3-2


Iverson is a horrible teammate.

The superstar sets the tone for the entire team

If the superstar doesnt want to practice and do the right things it takes to win, the other guys 2-15 arent going to either.


Paul Pierce is nowhere near Larry Bird either. that is just ridiculous. Bob Ryan, hyperbole, prisoner of the moment etc.

Bird did it consistently for years, Pierce has to do it a few more times to get in that company.

they should be, they could be... they aren't

they blew a 24 point lead, the biggest ever, and it was a later lead they blew.

They lost and are down 3-2.

And they series "should" be over 4-1 with defense like that.

It doesn't matter though, they aren't winning this series you can bank on that, they just extended their defeat. 4-2 Celtics.

Nobody would argue that Pierce is as good a PLAYER as Bird.  The statement was that Pierce was the best SCORER.  Obviously Bird was a much better passer, rebounder, shooter, and overall player.  But Pierce is right up there with as a scorer.  He's obviously loads more athletic than Larry was and has played in an era where they actually play some defense.  Back in the 80's defense was an afterthought.  Pierce has also had much less support over the years.  His best running mate before this year was Antoine Walker for a couple years but never really had a viable 3rd option.  And don't het me started on the PG's he's played with, and big men for that matter. Trust me, Bob Ryan and Tommy Heinsohn are not out of their minds for thinking Paul is the best SCORER in Celtics history.

YEAH they are pretty much out of their minds.

Bird is in an entirely different league than Pierce as far as shooting ability is concerned. Bird was so unselfish and had he been a ballhog, he wouldve won tons of scoring titles.

Bob Ryan and people like that get caught in a moment and try to hype stuff to get it more over.

just like a couple of years ago when Greg Anthony said the Pistons, who were on pace to win 70 games could beat the 96 Bulls.

just dumb shit to hype the era and moment.

People forget how great Jordan was, how great Bird was when they make stupid statements like Kobe is Jordan and this and that.

Ouch!  Why are you hatin' on Melo?  When did Carmelo become a thug?  AI yes, I can understand that label, but Melo?  No way.  

I agree with D on AI's not being a great team player...but he's still an amazing scorer, always has been.  Can a team win a championship with him?  If it has the right components, yes.  Is it likely?  No.  Is it possible in Denver with Carmelo around?  Hell no.

btw, Flador's right.  Ryan said scorer, not player.

Anybody else get a little misty-eyed when Bill Walton spoke with his son Luke at halftime last night?  I'm a softy, I thought it was great.  I've always respected that big goofy-lookin' guy.  He has always told it like it is.  He also wears his emotions on his sleeve.  I respect him immensely for that.   :yes:

Axl4prez did u see the "NO SNITCH" video Carmelo Anthony participated in? Basically a pro criminal tape telling kids not to snitch on drug dealers or gang members?

That is horrible.

Or the way he turned pussy and ran from 4 foot tall Nate Robinson.

Dude, that's heart-breaking, I didn't see that. 

On the fight thing though, was that the time he took a cheapshot punch and then ran?  I'm just anti-violence period, that's a shame if true.  :-[

yeah, that video was right before he got drafted i think

And he sucker punched a knick then ran from Nate Robinson. It was quite pathetic.

The skirmish at the Garden.

He's one of those guys who talks a lot, but he's just a big pussy.

I could take him.

Melo is a thug, so is Iverson, what else can you say?

GAME ON!!! :hihi:

(http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/262/o88js2.jpg)

^

hahaha never figured u for a Nugget/AI fan. please tell me u sleep with that big ass stuffed animal every night.

Back in the day, you bet ;D

The Celtics deserved to win.

Congratulations to them and their fans.

TOTAL DOMINATION!!! THE CELTICS ARE CHAMPIONS AGAIN!!!! After watching the celtics play through bad years, tough losses, and the play-off troubles its great to see Paul Pierce and the Boston Celtics as champions.

Watched the game with the family and as I am drinking now and waiting for our "designated driver" to show up to celebrate I thought I would share my thoughts.

Paul Pierce may be the MVP of the finals but the Celtics dominated tonight because Rajon Rondo played the game of his life. Its great to see Garnett finally get a championship. I always thought he was a great player and he deserves to be called a champion. The same thing can be said about Ray Allen.

Doc Rivers did a great coaching job. Motivating and bringing these 3 egos together to sacrifice for a championship. He deserves to be called a Champion as well. He said in an interview after the game that there are great coaches who never won championships because they never had the talent. It takes not only great talent but a guy that can coach that talent.

After the game Michael Wilbon said I won't talk too much about how bad the lakers played because the main reason they played so bad was because the Celtics were just that much better than them. The Celtics were the better team.

WE BEAT L.A.!!!! WE BEAT L.A.!!!! WE BEAT L.A.!!!! :smoking:

I agree on Doc.

He deserves a ton of credit for this season, and this championship.  He brought 3 stars together, got them to put their egos on the back burner, and got them to buy into his system and the idea that defense can win championships.  Watching this team, this season, reminded me a LOT of watching a really good college team develop and progress toward an NCAA title...and a LOT of that is because of the job Doc Rivers did.  He took a LOT of heat in Boston, especially after last year...but he's redeemed himself big time with the job he did for the C's this season. 

Garnett, last night, did exactly what D says he doesn't do:  He stepped up and led the team.  He pushed around Gasol.  He played tough, tenacious defense.  He provided HUGE leadership on the floor.  He did everything his critics have said he doesn't do.....  He may not score 35 to 40 a night, but he doesn't have to.   He does a lot of OTHER things that take over the game, and he did 'em all last night.

I was glad to see Pierce get the Finals MVP trophy.  I think it could have gone to him, or Garnett (and even Allen could make a case) but I think, all things being equal, Paul gets the nod because of what he's meant to this team over the past years....and how long he's been with them.  I know...all that stuff shouldn't matter.  But when the stats are THAT close...you have to go to the intangibles like that.  And hey...Garnett can win his next year :) .

One other thing:  For awhile, at least, we can put the Jordan/Kobe comparisons to rest....and I'm as guilty of making them as everyone else.  Someone talked, when we were talking about Jordan, that he'd "never have a game like that" when discussing Lebron.  Well, ditto with Kobe.  Jordan would never have a finals like that....

I'm not saying Kobe's not good.  He's still the best player in the NBA, today, as far as I'm concerned.  And I'm not saying he'll NEVER be as good as Jordan.  But, right now, today....I can honestly say that Jordan ranks above Kobe, definitively, in my mind.  This finals performance is what does it for me.  Too often, Kobe was reduced to a jump shooter.....and, for sure, credit the Celtics defense for that.  But, on the flip side, Jordan faced some defensive BEASTS back in his day, and he never had a finals series like the one Kobe just turned in.

What's with people defending themselves on this board as they talk? Like "I'm not saying blah blah"

LoL

It is what it is.

LA lost, and should've in 5, but it was 6. A decisive 6, that proves that it "should've" been 5 (4-1)

It was the 4th quarter and I think they got up by like 27 or something. I was talking to my friend, I wanted them to run the score up. He didn't want them too, and he was a Celtics fan. I think in Pro sports it's okay to run the score up. In NCAA it isn't.

The only thing I was dissapointed about in this game is that they didn't win by 40. I was really wanting 40. 39 will do, or you could round it to 40.

I must say, this years Celtics teams are one of the top 25 teams of all time. I don't think any other team in NBA history has beaten a worthy opponent like the Lakers so badly in a finals game. (I know their has been sweeps obviously)

I am talking about non swept series, that include a blowout like this one... this must be a record to win a title 39 is 39 and that's a lot, and I credit them running the score up and jacking 3's

The Lakers tried to run it up in game 4, and it backfired in their mouths. Love it.

Be proud Celtics fans, you have earned it.

have to say congrats to the celts

I expected the Celts to win because they are the better team, but I never expected a blowout in game 6. Congrats to residents of Boston. You guys are on a roll: Pats, Celts, and Sox.

Yes, this takes away the sting of the ill fated "perfect season" Super Bowl loss.  I always thought the NBA was the hardest league to build a winning team with the salary cap and ridiculous contracts that you just can't get out of.  At least in the NFL, you can cut dead weight since the contracts aren't guranteed.  But the Celtics did the unthinkable.  They went from being the 2nd worst team in the league last season to NBA CHAMPS!!!  Thanks in large part to Seattle and Minnesota.  Kevin McHale deserves another ring for trading Kevin Garnett for Al Jefferson, some role players, and some more players who will never amount to anything.  He completely changed the dynamic of the Boston Celtics.  They were a HORRIBLE defensive team for years and years and lacked an inside presence since the glory days of Dino Radja (joke!).  This year they were the BEST DEFENSIVE team in the NBA and that was clearly illustrated in the finals.  Kobe and the Lakers looked lost for all but about 5 quarters or so in the finals.  Everyone was screaming about how Ray Allen was all of a sudden over the hill.  Well I guess not.  He played fantastic ball in the finals.  And everyone said how he was just a shooter and almost a liability on defense.  Well, he more than held his own on the defensive end this season.  The James Posey signing was perfect (by the way I believe he's a free agent this year so some team will be getting themselves a great player).  And most of all I'm the most happy for Paul Pierce.  I've been a huge Pierce fan ever since the Celtics drafted him 10th overall in 1998 after guys like Olowakandi, LaFrentz, Tractor Traylor, Jason Williams, and Larry Hughes.  He's gone through a lot in his time in Boston from the stabbing to the bad teams, he stayed loyal to the team the whole way.

We've seen plenty of teams built to win championships fail miserably in recent years.  Not this time.  Mission accomplished.

And one last thing.  All year I had to listen to how much better the Western Conference was and how all the great teams were out West and how the East was like a mid-major conference in the NCAA's.  I forget who it was, maybe Van Gundy who said last night that although this was a banner year for the Western Conference the TWO BEST TEAMS all along played in the Eastern Conference, the Pistons and the Celtics.  The Lakers were just no match for the Celtics and I think the Pistons would've beaten them too.  They were just WAY too SOFT up front.  They were a below average defensive team and the triangle offense was completely ineffective.  The West may be flashy and high scoring.  But the Pistons, Celtics, and even Cavs played a different style.  A much tougher, defensive minded game.  Lakers are young though, they should be back, especially if Bynum returns full strength.  They need some toughness though.  As much of an ass he is, Ron Artest would make that team loads better IF he could keep his attitude in check.  That's a big IF though.  James Posey would help them out too, though I hope he doesn't go there.  Not sure what their cap situation is, I'm sure James has played himself into a pretty decent contract next year, probably as a starter on a lesser team even though he's best suited as a 6th man on a good team.

Anyhow

Let's Go Celtics!!!

2008 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!