Here Today... Gone To Hell!

What would you like to see?

If VR do record a new album, I guess it's safe to assume that it'll be the last one. I'm hoping they stretch their creative muscle a little more this time. I'd like something a little more challenging and offbeat then the straight forward (albeit excellent) Libertad.

Thoughts?

I hope there's even more than one more album to come! They're one of the only good bands around today. I hope on the next album they'll be a bit more adventurous and let Slash dominate a little bit more. More songs like 'Messages' please.

I would like to have an album full of more songs like "Let It Roll". Straight ahead rock with a ton of Slash riffing and, as I had already hoped for with album numero 2, way more solos. And alot more Duff. He is kind of absent on a lot of Libertad. Doesn't play bad at all, but doesn't stand out anywhere particuarly. And maybe have him sing something too. I would love it if VR had a song like "Good News" from the Neurotic Outsiders on the next album with Duff singing.

I would like to see a third as well as I feel they are getting better with each album.  I am not counting that there will be a third one...but one can only hope

If there is a third album, it will be more like Contraband.

Hopefully they won't bow to pressures from the record label when making this album.

to be a hard rock band again, not some pussyass band.

I'm not sure what you mean by that? Because anyone in the music industry will tell you that the label would have wanted a record like Contraband as the second album, seeing as how Contraband sold so well.  Why do you think SBQM was the first single?  The record label beleives VR's was because Contraband was a mass-appealing album and probably demanded or preferred the same record again.  But obviously no musician with any respect for himself wants to repeat themselves on the next album, but be more creative and try different things.

So the latest album has only been out for about three months and people are already looking forward to the next one.

I guess Libertad was that good that you can't wait to hear more of the same?

Or not?


Either they just record one very quickly after the tour is over, or there'll be solo projects and then a new VR album in a few years.

I'd guess it'll be the latter.

Who knows if they wanna record another album at that point and just go for some kind of compilation instead.

I guess it depends on the contract they have with RCA.





/jarmo

with the success of Contraband, chances are RCA extended the contract for another two albums. I doubt the label will drop them, so its really up to the guys if they wanna do another. Like you said, if they want out of the contract, they'd probably release a b-side, live, or best of album.

the day after a new record comes out im already looking forward to the next one

a live album, then a split.

Wow, what a short attention span.  :P

I personally tend to listen to the albums for a while.



/jarmo

I don't think you understand what he means. Once you've got the album, and listened to it a couple times, you already know what you have. Yes, you do continue to listen to the album, but there is also excitement in wondering what the bands next album will sounds like. Like he said, its something to look forward to.

He said the day after the release.

How many times does he listen to the album in that day?  ???





/jarmo

i personally initially liked libertad but wasnt very excited after the initial listenings , hardly ne great slash riffs and solos more of that please!!!!

That's true, they are lacking, but if you go into the album with specific expectations, chances are they wont be met.   Is a song any worse if the guitar solo is 5 seconds shorter? Although the solo could make it better.  And I don't know, some of  GNR's good riffs werent just written by Slash, his specialty was more of the heavier riffs, which is what he's been doing in VR, so I think he's been consistent in that manner.

The only complaint I have is the predictable arrangements of intro, verse, prechorus, chrous, verse, prechorus, chorus, bridge, solo, chorus. Almost every song on libertad follows that arrangement, and it so easy to identify each part, you know automatically whats coming next.

Not enough Slash solo? Get real, what do you expect? him to solo all over the song? Sure, he could maybe have 2-3 solo breaks like he did in most GNR songs. But again, that is due to the repetitive arrangement.

That is my EXACT complaint too, the arrangements.  Lot of great riffs, melodies, basslines, etc.....but the actual construction of the songs is a bit lacking, with a little extra effort and time spent in this particular regard a lot of these songs could have felt a lot more unique and special.

The band was there before Scott, and I think it will be there if he leaves. Typically, 3rd albums have been some really great stuff.

I think it might be good to "record one very quickly after the tour is over." It may be best not to over-think it and just do a record quickly.

wow...will be interesting to see you views on that if and when Axl releases CD and, like has been reported here, he has enough material for three albums, he releases another right away if you will buy it or not, or wait until you have had your fill of CD

So Axl's been claiming to be working on a new album for over a decade and you still believe it's coming out??  I guess those leaks are soo great you'll keep waiting another 10 years. Weren't you counting down the Tuesdays left in 2006 also?! Wow, what a short attention span YOU must have!! :smoking: 8)

Axl, Axl, Axl...

 :rofl:


Nowhere did I say I don't buy new albums while I still listen to the previous one.

If one of my favorite artists releases a new album every week, I'd buy them on the day of the release.

But it doesn't mean that on Tuesday I'm already looking forward to next Monday after only listening to the new album maybe a couple of times.


I guess with VR I might, but they're not one of the bands I'd call favorites.  :hihi:




/jarmo

Well yeah... actually if you take a close look at the songs you?ll see that, in almost all of them, the solo starts in the last min of the song (like 1.50min/1.00min). Kinda predicting and boring yes... They should diverse a bit more on the songs, no doubt about that. They can do that as we saw on Messages. But hey! Till now I?m quite happy with the band and its two albums. The only thing I?m sad about is the fact that I haven?t seen them live yet.  :no:

But they were, weren?t they?

Nope. Velvet Revolver has never ever been one of my favorite artists. Maybe you just assumed they were because I went to see them.

Did you know the day before I saw VR in London in 2004 I saw Mark Lanegan and that show made a bigger impression on me than any of the VR shows I saw?

Some people around me went on and on about how great it was, sure it was a great show at the time, but Lanegan was special.



VR is not Guns N' Roses, Pearl Jam, Nine Inch Nails, Mark Lanegan or even Depeche Mode.

There's a lot of other artists who's music I like too. But I'm not gonna bother listing them since it's not really the topic.....




/jarmo

Yeah... fair enough.  : ok:  But I gotta press this button again- you have seen VR 5 times right? If someone tells me they went to see some band 5 times I must assume they like it, that they ain?t indiferent to them. That would be quite weird if it was the contrary. I mean... 5 times is quite a lot. So I gotta ask you this: what made you see them 5 times?

It was an excuse to go to London twice within six months.

I like London, I like traveling, I like going to concerts, I enjoy meeting friends and some of them were going to these shows....

I didn't even go because it was VR basically. It was just because of the GN'R connection. Couldn't really care less about seeing Matt, but I hadn't seen Duff or Slash since they left GN'R.

Slash canceled a show I had tickets for in 2000. Two days before the show they moved it elsewhere so I didn't get to see them. You think I'm a huge Snakepit fan too?  :hihi:



Anything else you wanna know?





/jarmo

So you never ever liked VR?

(last question I promise  ;))

I thought a few songs on Contraband were good when it came out, but overall I thought the album lacked focus.

I can't stand their front man.

So it's kinda hard to "like" them when I think the singer is overrated and his whole act is a fucking pose.



/jarmo

i like listening to as much music by bands i like as i can

I mean, that maybe they won't listen to RCA and put out a WEAK first single like they did with SBQM.

Maybe Slash can try and work a bit harder instead of having Clive fucking Davis come in and give him some direction with his solo's.

They might not go in such a "diverse" direction and just put out a straight ahead rock album like CB.  Maybe they can achieve gold that way....

dont you mean platinum?

but yeah, clive fuckin davis. SBQM didnt have a solo on it until Clive wanted one. He probably wanted one on every song, made tht band change arrangements here and their. Fuck him if he did.

that was get out the door actually

the more i come to this forum the more i come to the conclusion this is a place for axl n' roses fans, not gnr or rock fans   :-[


that's only my opinion
 

peace and keep on rockin'!!!

My opinion is that you're an idiot since Axl is in GN'R.

GN'R plays rock n' roll.

So, if you like the music Axl makes, you like the music GN'R makes and it's called rock music....

 :peace:



/jarmo

damn, jarmo you used the "idiot" shit, not cool.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=48897.msg1000497#msg1000497

 :hihi:

Yeah, but I only do it on special occasions such as this.

Obviously, for this guy being a GN'R and rock fan is different from being an Axl fan.




/jarmo

I'm not saying he's right, but he does have a point. Some people here think GNR is Axl, which it isn't. It's a band. But their loyalty is to one person and one person only. And there are a few of those flamers here, especially some of the people that are in the VR section just to bash VR cause they think that's what Axl wants. I think his post was dedicated to those poor misguided souls.

Axl, Axl, Axl....

His point is that you can be a GN'R fan and hate Axl.

Then you don't like GN'R. You like the GN'R that once existed and only exists in your mind these days.



/jarmo

You can like a band and hate someone in the band cause you think he/she is an asshole. I like a band for the music and not personalities.

Sure.

What a waste. You hate somebody who you never met based on the public image of that person while you enjoy the art he/she created.

If the person in question was different, don't you think the artistic output would be different too?




/jarmo

Thats EXACTLY how I feel about the band. Wieland ruins it for me, both musically and as a frontman.  Its unfortunate because Slash and Duff still kick ass.

Totally agree with you about Duff, although his playing on Libertad is killer.  Why in the hell didnt NO take off ? That was a good band, i am just glad i seen them live.

All that I'm saying is that you don't have to like somebody to admire what they've created.

Wait!? What?

So this is different then?




I know you used the words "can't stand"? and not "hate"? but in this context his "hate" has the same meaning as your "can't stand" I believe.

No, I can't stand his live performances (part of the music), his voice sucks (music) or his lyrics (music).

The fact that he seems to be full of himself is a whole other thing.





/jarmo

While we are throwing out opinions, I think his voice is amazing and I love his more subjective open-ended lyrics.  About the full of himself part, I don't know but fronting to successful rock bands might do that to you, so you're probably right.

I hate Fred Durst, but like some of his music. I'm not too crazy about some of the things that Scott and Axl have done and said, but I like almost all of their music. None of these people are Gods or deserve to be any different than us. They have a talent, I enjoy their talent and like listening to their music, it has nothing to do with having to like the person.

And how do you explain his idea of GN'R fans being different from rock fans?  ::)

You're trying to defend his point that you should be welcome to a GN'R site when you don't even like GN'R anymore.



I believe his whole "point" was that GN'R fans and "rock fans" are fans of the old band while Axl fans are fans of the new band.


I don't know how many times I've said this, but apparently it needs repeating, if you come here to post negative shit about (the current) Guns N' Roses, you're on the wrong fucking site.




/jarmo

No dude, I mean gold.  Have you seen the numbers for Libertad?

So you're only allowed to come here if you're gonna suck Axl's cock? Common man, that's not freedom of speech or expression.

How surprising that you have to be immature about it.

Freedom of speech?

How many times have I heard about that?

This message board isn't some kind of birth right you know.

Our house, our rules.

I'm pretty sure porn isn't illegal in many places, that doesn't mean I want it posted here.


All you so called GN'R fans who like to put down the band use the "freedom of speech" excuse.




/jarmo

Well I think it is idiotic that you have to idolize one person in a band that has been around for over twenty years!!! GNR is a band, it is not one frickin' member. If that was the case the band would be called Axl Rose. You are right, you would hope the people that visit here do like GNR in some shape or form, but people should be allowed to say they prefer the old (or new lineup) better and be allowed to express their opinion, at one time it used to be that way. However it now seems like you want this board more and more to reflect your thoughts and opinions and anyone who expresses something different is wrong or an asshole or a trouble-maker, or a VR fan.

If that is what you really want you should ban everyone and have chats with yourself all day long. That would probably acomplish what you're trying to do here for the last year or so.

Fuck that shit.

I bash VR because I think they are washed up poseurs, and the albums sucks, specially the new one.

And I'm not here for them, not at all. I'm here for GN'R. The long gone one too but it's evident that I'm here because of the GN'R that was kicking ass the past couple of years.

If you think that there is people here that bash VR just to please Axl Rose then you must be crazy.

You're so clueless it's not even funny.

I don't want a site where bashing the CURRENT band is the norm, where people like you are considered the norm and where people do nothing but focus on the past.

This isn't a nostalgia board. I could've understood how you only wanted to talk about what the old band had done a few years ago when there were no tours or appearances happening. But things have changed.



For your information, I'm not the only fan who thinks that way.

Just because you can't seem to fucking get it doesn't mean nobody else can.




/jarmo

There is nothing wrong with having Axl Rose obsessed fans like you and NicoRourke on this site that love the new band, infact I welcome people like you (although I seriously question how you two shits can call me clueless when I can outwit and out-debate either of you in my sleep). However that is another story. What I am saying is that it would be a very boring and stagnant board if everyone shared the same opinions as you two. It is nice to have a mix of people that like both the classic GNR line-up and this new lineup. As far as I can tell a GNR board would welcome both fans, if not the name should be changed to reflect GNR 2000 or something along those lines. Like I said before it is your board and your choice. I'm merely expressing my opinions and trying to keep you somewhat honest.

As for NicoRourke (and others) and the VR bashing well I don't really know what your motive is. You like any other individual are allowed not to like VR or their new album, but at the same time should realize your opion is YOUR opinion and other may have a different one and you should respect that. If memory serves me correct, VR has recorded and released about 30 some songs and played I don't know how many shows? How does this compare to the track record of the current GNR regime? Now who are the poseurs? I'm not going to pick a fight over this cause I am anxiously awaiting their album, but dude common at least think before you say something. They aren't pretending to do anything they are releasing music. Whether you like it or not that is for each and every individual to decide.

I'm speaking for myself. I'm not an Axl obsessed fan, I'm a GN'R fan. And we are in 2007, so It seems logical that if Jarmo is running this place and if I'm registered here it's because of our love and support for the band. The whole band. Yeah, I admire Axl Rose for what he is, what he does he the way he's conducting things. And of course he is the connexion between all the era's. He's the driving force.



Where was I disrespectfull ? I respect everybody's opinion. That doesn't mean I have to agree or hide mine.



Amazing, you welcome Jarmo in his own ouse.

And am I dreaming or you're insulting us in that last sentence ? Anyway, I'm glad you think of me when you sleep :-*

I'm so happy that you're so fucking clever and modest.

Too bad you are clueless about what this site is about. You've already proven that. So keep "outwitting" us.

Who said anything about being obsessed?





As I said, clueless.

Nowhere did I think everybody must share my opinion. I'm pretty sure not all people here like the same songs I like or think like me.

All I've asked for is for people to understand one simple fucking thing: If you come to this site, we make no difference between GN'R in 1985 or GN'R in 2007.

If you support GN'R, you're welcome.

If you only like GN'R that existed between 1985 and 1990 or something like that, think about what exactly you're doing. Because I, and many with me, don't need to hear your "it's not GN'R", "it's never coming out" or "Axl sucks" opinions. I'm sure there are plenty of other sites where those kinds of opinions are welcome and maybe even encouraged (all in the name of freedom of speech of course).

My idea of a fan site isn't one dedicated to bringing fans down or bashing the band you claim to like.

We already have newspapers, magazines, blogs and TV for that.



/jarmo

Well first of all lets get this straight, I have never bashed GNR, I do prefer the old lineup of GNR and I have said this many times. I've also said before what drew me to GNR was not Axl but the instruments behind GNR. That being said, doesn't mean I don't like Axl. I think he is one of the best performers and vocalists ever, however I loved the blues based style of GNR. Within the current lineup, of the material we have heard thus far that isn't one of the central elements of their music anymore, so naturally I prefer the music that came from the lineup that was more true to the reason I began liking GNR. There is a different between the two lineup and that is pretty obvious, I don't think you can not honestly say there isn't one that does exist. Even if GNR had stayed true with the current lineup I would have said the same thing. It's not the fact that the musicians have changed but that the style of music has. Alot of people were initial a little upset when they first heard the accoustic half of GNR Lies and that was the same band that released AFD. I didn't agree with them, but they are allowed to say that, just as fans now may not be totally in favor of the change in musical direction that is presently occuring. I have never said I don't like Axl (I don't regard him with God-like status though), nor have I ever said that the new album will not come out, so please do a little research before you put words in my mouth.

I am a GNR fan (and a VR fan) and a fan of other bands as well. I have gone to see the current lineup of GNR in concert, I will be buying the new album, and will support the band. I am one of those people that did like the previous lineup of the band better, yes that is true. However, I may have liked the old music better anyways even if GNR had kept the same lineup depending on what type of music they had decided to create. I'm sure different people prefer different GNR albums. Because someone prefers AFD more than UYI does that make them less of a GNR fan? Does that mean they hate GNR...no.

What I don't like about the board currently, is that there seems to be a need to walk the party line, to not say anything that could be in some way possible interpreted as anit-GNR, and that also includes appearently liking other kinds of music and especially VR, cause if you like VR you don't like the current GNR. So now we need to trash VR, and post in the VR section because well VR fans are evil and they hate GNR and they shouldn't exist but I'll keep the section of the board up and we'll trash VR and if we do it enough they might start to hate VR as well and become only GNR fans. I'm just assuming that is your logic, whether that is true or not I don't know. I would certainly hope not. But why don't I ask you. There isn't a better person to ask that the person themselves. Why is it you have a VR section to this board and you frequently vist and post on it. You post material that one could make a strong case for that it should be classified as hate material. As a true GNR fan of all lineups and music; past, present, and future...what do you get out of coming here almost everyday and stating you hate VR and their music? I think we all know your opinion, nothing has really changed for quite sometime on that front. And it isn't like it happens in one of the topics, if you look at this section of the board your name (and a few others) will appear in almost every topic and you will trash VR, or Scott, or Slash and in the end every fucking thread turns into one of these where you have an argument with some member about VR vs GNR and/or the old line-up vs the new line-up. Maybe we should have a section specifically for that, we could call it "stupid fucking arguments"  :peace:

What the fuck are you talking about?



Once again: clueless.



I find it amusing that someone who's clearly the smartest member here and who can outwit us all, still don't get it.

This section isn't for me.

But there are GN'R fans (yes, people who like GN'R in 2007, not just the old band) who like to keep up with VR.

I personally try to keep up with all the bullshit they say and point out certain things that I find amusing or false.


Hate material? What the fuck is that?

Is it like a hate crime?


You're not forced to "suck Weiland's cock" (using your own kind of phrase so that you'll understand) to be allowed to post on this site.

GUNS N' ROSES does not equal VELVET REVOLVER in any fucking way.

Just like you're not forced to support Adler's Appetite, Supernova or Slash's Snakepit to be welcome here.


We don't give a fuck if you hate VR or if you love them, as long as you support the current GN'R that still exists instead of supporting some fucking reunion.

We are in October 2007. We have a band to support right now.

Whatever happened in the past, is in the past and it was great. Whatever happens in the future, we'll deal with it then.





/jarmo

Way to go...great response. I never said I was smarter than everyone here. What I did say was that I could piece together a logical argument and out-talk you any day and this proves it. Instead of responding to what I wrote you went on a swearing tirade. How many time did you say fuck? You say nothing about the musical style of GNR changing, nothing with regards to the differences between AFD and Lies I highlighted. I'm not sure you responded to a single thing I said. Basically you just said fuck you it's my board I can do what I want. Wow...you're my hero, thank God you don't represent what all GNR fans are like. Now if you want to have a civil discussion, go back to my previous post and we can discuss some of those points in a logical matter. Or if you want, if you think I'm so clueless why don't you explain what you're great vission is with this board and how you are making a difference in our petty lives by running it so admirably the way you do?

Boo-hoo. You were offended by some swearing.  :crying:



I explained what this site is about, there's no (fucking) vision other than I want the kind of site I'd visit myself.


There's differences between different GN'R albums? Holy shit!

So just because you prefer AFD to UYI, you think you have the right to constantly bash the UYI era of the band?

Is that what you're saying?


Because, at the end of the day, you say you can like one album better than the other and still be a fan.

Sure you can.

But does it mean you have to come here to bash the current band and expect to be welcomed just because you prefer AFD to anything else they've done?

No it doesn't.


I know there are differences in the band's music. Many bands have changed their sound and line ups over their careers. I bet they also had fans who supported the current line up even though maybe they preferred one of the old albums to the current one.

It doesn't mean we have to cater to an audience who's only interested in one past era of the band.




This comes from the guy who said:





/jarmo

This is the key here. I'm a HUGE VR fan, arguably moreso than a GNR fan today (maybe just because i find it hard to sustain enthusiasm for the band during down periods) but i have to say.....Jarmo doesn't necessarily have a problem with VR fans, he has a problem with people who aren't GNR fans. Whether they like VR or not. Simple as.

So when someone's response in this section is along the lines of 'yeah well....Axl is shit' it appears they aren't GNR fans, in which case its simply nonsensical that they visit this board at all. Forgive me if i'm putting words in your mouth Jarmo, but i've always felt that to be the point.

On topic, i'm hoping to one day to get an album from VR where they really flex their musical muscle, no-one can deny the potential within that band. Two good, but not 'great' albums down the line, VR is still less than the sum of its parts (studio wise) unfortunately.

Well I guess you missed the point about the albums. To tell you the truth, I vary about album choices. Some days AFD is my favorite, other it's the Illusions albums and yet others it may be the Spagethi Incident. I like all the material they put out. What I was getting to is that regardless of lineup there may be changes in the musical direction of the band, the most current being the most obvious, cause they really appear to be getting away from the hard rock blues influence. My point is just because someone may not like the direction as much doees not make them anti-GNR, one should be allowed to prefer the old stuff better, just as some people will prefer their new musical direction over the old one.

A classic example of this is Metallica. There was a huge fight among fans over Metallica, something similar to this and their lineup didn't even change. The uproar started a little when the Black album came out but all shit broke loose for the Load album. The style of their music was really different and they dressed differently and so on. Metallica lost some die hard fans, but at the same time they also touched a new fan base, there was a group of people that became Metallica fans that would never have listened to any of their previous stuff. I see the same happening with GNR, will they gain more fans than they loose, I don't know time will tell. All that I'm saying is that you should not alienate people because they may not agree 100% with the musical direction the band is going in. The last Metallica album was maybe more true to their roots according to some people than some of the previous stuff. I don't think there is anything wrong with a GNR fan saying that they hope the band one day releases another album that may be more of a hard rock blue genre. That in no way demonstrates that they aren't a GNR fan.

You often attack someone and get on their case when they state something, you seem to have to go on the defensive for GNR or something, when instead you should find out what the person is talking about before jumping on them right away. There are probably several people that are faced with the above dilema and instead they have you jumping on them stating that they aren't a true GNR fan and you should respect Axl and the current band is GNR and that's the only vehicle there is for a GNR fan of the past, present, or future and well that's bullshit.

I agree there is a lot of shit that is said that shoudn't be said about GNR in this section and on this board (as well as other boards). But at the same time we don't need to take it to extreme with regards to the VR stuff that is posted especially on this board. The board is terrible for mis-quotes and lies being spread about VR. How does it make it right to bash a band cause you're pissed that someone just trashed your band.

As the webmaster of this board you should take a little pride, and think twice before you post shit. Perhaps if you set a better example others might follow, or on the other hand I guess we could just say fuck this and fuck that and never really reply to the actual posters comments and just type angry shit all day.

As I said, I couldn't really care less if you only like Live Like A Suicide.

This site is not meant for those fans who are only fans of the past.

If I'm "attacking" anybody, it's because I want those people to be 100& sure about why we're here and why they might be on the wrong fucking site.


It's like going to an Indian restaurant and telling them you want to have Italian food because that's what you're used to eating.

Then tell the employees they're fucking wrong for not welcoming people who wanna order Italian food and ruin the mood for the rest of the customers.....




Oh please.  ::)

Do I need to remind you that this is not a VR site?

The focus is not on that band at all here......




I don't post shit. I post what I think.

Remember how you complained about freedom of speech?

So, you want to have it, but you don't want me to be able to express myself on the site I actually started....

You want to be able to whine about GN'R on a GN'R site, but I shouldn't be able to say things like "I guess VR hasn't sold out any shows on this tour" on a GN'R board?


What kind of an equation is that?



/jarmo

Exactly fuck that shit. I really try not to get into these little VR vs. GNR threads but shit like this numbnuts posted is what gets under my skin.

How in the fuck can you call the guys in VR washed up poseurs ? I mean come on dude, face a little bit of reality here.? Calling a band that releases material washed up, whilst on the other hand licking another bands nuts that dont release a fucking album in 13 plus years. That is absurd.? That has to be the dumbest fucking post i have read on this board.? You people are so far in denial now your just grasping for straws anymore these days.

Then Jarmo , you come into a thread that is going completely fine and make your smart ass comments. I think we all know what your deal is. Yes, yes sir.


Dont get me wrong, i do hope that Axl releases his album because his band is very talented, and it will be cool to see what those guys do playing there own stuff. You gotta give those guys in that band credit , it would have to be harder than hell to be in that band. Must be getting paid well. I mean what the hell could be holding it up now ? Sebastian Bach's? new cd coaster. Atleast we know Axl can still put on a set of headphones. ::)

Just remember the next time your jamming out at a GnR show, assuming there is another tour. Just remember those kick ass guitar licks and bass lines would not be possible if it wasn't for those washed up poseurs.?

And i am not slamming all new Guns fans, there are some who may or may not like VR but still give the original guys props. It isnt even about liking VR to me . Although VR is one of my favorite bands, i was also a big STP fan aswell as GnR. I just get sick of hearing all of the shit toward the original guys, they were just as instrumental as Axl to the creation of GnR.

Wow...love the last post man, classic Jarmo, here we are talking about changes in musical styles and I even brought in Metallica and showed an example with a band that kept it's lineup intact but changed their style. Response from Jarmo is basically "My way or the highway fucker" and then proceeds to say VR can't sell out shows. Great response. It's getting fucking sad dude. Get some new material. I'm actually starting to get emails from members now applauding me for standing up to you. For calling you out on your BS rules and dictatorship philosophies. People are getting tired of you trying to dictate what they can express and not express here. I have a feeling I'll probably just get banned soon because sooner or later but whatever. Hopefully more and more people will call you on your BS, I really don't have the time to continue this argument forever especially when you don't even that the time to read and process things and I just get your standard "Fuck you, VR suck and Axl rules response". Try mixing it up a little show some variety.

This is classic dude , "Fuck you, VR suck and Axl rules response".  That is the ruler 's typical reply after he starts his bullshit isnt it. Why the fuck do you have a VR section ? I mean how many times have you been asked this Jarmo ? You hate us VR fans with a passion.  I would still lurk though as i do enjoy reading the speculation on Chinese Democracy. It is just fucking insane .

why do you guys even come to this board if your only purpose is to complain about the way it is run??

Jarmo can have whatever rules he wants.    Its not your place to question them.     If you don't like it, no one is making you stay here.    Jarmo could make the most unfair ridiculous rules in the world if he wanted because he owns this website and you still make the choice to come here and post on it.   

this board isn't the right place for some people.   just like there are other GNR sites that wouldnt' be right for me.  I dont go to those sites jus to tell the admin I think their rules are bullshit and they run their boards wrong.   I simply don't support them.

Dude your right it is his site. It isnt about liking VR to me, i could give a shit less if you like them or not. The constant bashing of the original guys is what gets old.

regardless, it ain't about the original guys any longer.     People are going to have their opinions on what Steven Adler does or what VR does.    But you'd think that everyone here would at least be supportive of the band this board is here for, Guns N' Roses.

With that said, you'd be hard pressed to find many on this board that belittle or bash any of the original members accomplishments that were made while they were members of GnR.

I am supportive of the new guys. I may not be a huge Axl supporter but i am definitely just as curious to hear CD as any hardcore Axl fan. I am sure if it ever comes out ill get it day one just like all you hardcore guys.

Good for you!

I explained it and gave examples. I've even addressed your issues.

Then when I asked you a simple question, you failed to answer! How surprising. Your tactic is always used be the people who can "outwit" me.




You can fucking get applauded all you want. I'm happy for your newly found popularity! Good for you!


The fact is, I never ever never ever ever ever made this site for you. I never thought "Hmm, how can I get more visitors? Maybe I need to be nicer and kiss some VR fans' ass?".



I'm just doing what I've always been doing. I say what I think and do what I think is right. Same old attitude I've had about this site for about eleven years now.

If others like what I do, fucking awesome. If not, well at least I got my integrity.

Got a problem with that? Applaud yourself and fuck off.


Sorry if you two VR fans are too sensitive and I'm being too mean to you guys. But it's the truth.

I couldn't care less what you two want this site to be.

I've explained everything in this post a hundred times, but people like you come here and think this site is yours to change for something you want it to be.

I don't know how other sites work. Maybe they let you decide who should be a moderator, who needs to be banned and what is cool.

This site isn't like that.



I'm not saying I don't appreciate feedback or suggestions, I'm saying these kinds of fans need to wake the fuck up.




I even answered it in this thread. AGAIN!

Why do you make yourself look dumb by asking it again?


 
You tell me. Because every time I answer it, it goes out somewhere and you don't remember the answer.



Just because I think you two are clueless and have the attention span of a Gitanes cigarette, doesn't mean I hate you.


I just don't agree with the fact that you two think you have the right to decide how I run this site.

And I should just kiss your asses because you're waving your Freedom Of Speech banners.



/jarmo

Small note, VR did sell out their show last night in Alabama.? But we starve for good rock n roll here.? It was a sell out none the less.?

Wow...4 pages....

Back to topic...

If there is a third album, I think it'd come out in 2009. Just a guess....

Because they are ?


The fact that they release material doesn't mean that they're not washed up. See Libertad's or any interviews from the band success for more information. Or their amazing performances for the moment ...


I give props to the original band. I know who recorded the CD's I own. I know how I see when watching UYI videos and shit. I never have denied their part in the creation of the original material.

But now, after 15 years, I don't know what more can be said about the Illusion days. So yeah, I focus on what I love and have now : GN'R. The one who tours, the one with Batter, TWAT, The Blues, Maddy, IRS, Chinese Democracy, etc.

The one that kick ass.

This isn't the same board it was 11 years ago, even though I have only starting posting in the last half year doesn't mean I never visited this board before. I have visited this board since the start of it's existence. It used to be a great site for information and there was never any need to post anything but your agenda has changed drastically. Seriously dude, if that's what you want the board should be called the new GNR or something like that to reflect you only want people to comment on about six leaked songs and less than 100 concerts and to forget all the good times that helped create the legacy of GNR. I do agree that the new lineup of the band is what is the GNR of present, will it be what people remember when you mention GNR in 40 years, who knows. But that doesn't mean you can't have a combination of both. If it wasn't for the history behind the band only a handfull of people would even know who these guys are.

What I'm doing now isn't about what I want, it isn't even about you. It's about seeing what used to be one of my favorite boards go to shit and trying to do something to change that. This site used to be a site where you could come to and get useful information, now it's just a huge bitchfest where if you don't conform and post only about a limited timeframe and type of music you ostracized to no end. You're told to fuck off, that your stupid, that your opinion sucks, all discussions you have are hijacked cause certain people have agendas. It's just ridiculous, and then you get banned. I doing so you are essentially choosing who can post and not post on this board. If that was the case you should have just invited your friends and not let anyone post here. As far as I know, the internet is a public domain, and this board is on the internet so anyone should be able to post anything they want (within reason of course).

So what was the so-called question that you asked me, I'd be happy to answer any question you have.   

Sure the internet is a public domain, but that doesn't mean that an owner of a website can't tell you that there are certain things you can't post. This is a privately owned board, so the owner makes the rules. We as members of that site can choose to follow the rules, or find another site to post on. We don't have the right to bitch and moan about the way things are run. It's not a democracy or majority rules scenario.

keep fighting the good fight..

Jarmo is way more patient than I am.    I think most people would have already banned someone who was coming to their site to try to 'change' things and tell them how to run it.

I'm not saying that the board should be about the old lineup, I'm just saying it should be more open-minded to other peoples opinions, like the way it used to be. There is a real conform or get out attitude, not by all by by the radical Axl supporters...and to be perfectly honest it is a little creepy.

This is a privately owned board, you're right about that. But this is also a discussion board and as far as I know a discussion board means you should be able to discuss almost anything and doesn't give somone the power to tell you what your opinions should or should not be.

These so called rules, are they posted anywhere. Does it ever say you can only reflect certain opinions? If you want to run it like that then lets be honest and have a huge as background of Axl and we can have a "cause Axl said so" page of rules which tell you what you must say and what opinions you can have to post on this board. Or we can embrace GNR as a whole, past, present, and future and be allowed to speak our minds and not be banned or told to fuck off because of it.

deep breath....let it go.....

For fuck's sake. I'm not saying everybody should share my opinion. I'm saying, this board is "aimed" at certain people who SHARE some of my views.


Let me give you an example:


You have a big house party. You got guests from all over the world. Different backgrounds, religions etc.

A bunch of neo nazis show up in full nazi uniforms shouting and being obnoxious. You know it's gonna bring people at your party down and ruin the mood if you let them in.

But the nazis tell you they have the right to be there and they have freedom of speech so they can keep shouting things that upset most of your guests.

So, would you let them in considering you don't share their views? Or would you just tell them they need to find another place to go to since this isn't the right place for them?




Regarding my question, it's still there. Go look for it.



/jarmo

^ You have to feel like you are beating your head against a wall sometime. Regarding your analogy, I get the guests together and kick their ass'.

Ok, you're going a little to the extreme there buddy. First of alll the nazis were racist and tried to extreminate the Jews. I don't think anyone of us is trying to kill anyone. If anything this extreme example may apply to you more since you are the one filling this section with anti-VR propaganda and you only want one race on this board, the people that worship only the most recent GNR lineup.

Anyways, if we want to continue with this discussion I would feel more confortable leaving the nazis out of it. I don't think race and religion has any place in the discussion we are having and others may find it extremely offensive. I don't mind using analogies to prove a point, in fact I applaud for for at least trying, but try to choose something that isa  little less politically sensitive.

For crying out loud... ::)

It's his fucking board, deal with it!

You're right it is just a fucking board, but I'm sure the people that were jewish and killed simply because they were of a different religion would not think of it the same way. It's just a fucking band and fucking music, we don't need to take it to extremes. Lets just keep it realistic.

Yeah man, you just have to come to terms with what this place stands for and what it is all  about. In the end you still get the last laugh because face it,  people coming in here solely to say VR suck, Scotts a drug addict, Slash is a poser, etc, dedicate their time to something they apparently don't like. I could understand one post, explaining how you were dissapointed by VR due to the alumni in the band, and you expected something different but when you keep coming back and back and back, that is just funny. There are some obvious other motives to people like that, maybe their feelings were hurt by VRs success, maybe they secretly like VR more than they want to admit, maybe they enjoy online arguing, who knows. If I don't like something, I don't go to message boards about it once a day, So I can't relate or understand those people at all but it still cracks me up  :rofl:.

As an analogy, it is like going down to the baseball field, standing in the middle of the diamond while people are playing baseball. Then beginning to walk around the different bases telling the people playing why baseball sucks. I LOVE VR's music, so you telling me scott is too skinny or slash's solos are too short isn't going to change that one bit.

Well, I got to try to make you understand that you might not want certain company at your party.

Seems like you didn't get that part. Hardly surprising.




/jarmo

Nope I got it, I just think it's pathetic and VERY DISTURBING comparing nazis to GNR fans who prefer the muscial direction the old lineup had taken to this one. Are you a moron? Do you even understand what the nazis did?

A few days ago you banned someone from the site for using a certain term to refer to gay people. I did think he was out of line and perhaps deserve to be banned from the site, however you making light of nazis is WAY worse. Guess this just goes to further your double standards. It's ok if people run their mouths and say all kinds of outrageous things as long as they don't put down the new GNR lineup. You my friend are a disgrace to the human race.

I?m sure it was just an example... he wasn?t saying Gn?R fans were nazis lol god!

I agree with you in many things... but I think you should give it a rest already.  : ok: The reason why ppl end up being banned is that they keep on discussing the same things till they get pissed off and start insulting each other you know?

See? Somebody got it.



I'll spell it our for you once again:

#1: I don't want certain kinds of people on this board because they try to bring everybody else down and start shit.

#2: You can use your freedom of speech on your own site. I'm giving you the freedom to choose. This place is not some kind of service you've paid for so you can demand to have it your way.




Thanks.

By the way, I'm not your friend.




/jarmo

I know you weren't calling GNR fans nazis, I think the pure fact that you used it and don't even realise what you did shows how ignorant you are. It proves that you have very little respect for others and yourself. I understand what you're saying but the method you used to show it are idiotic. And what's worse is that you just shrug it off instead of apologizing to those you may have insulted.

And I am not demanding it be my way, I think it should be a fair and democratic way. Like I said before you can ban people who don't agree with you, that is your power (and you do abuse it). You can keep getting rid of people until it is just people who have the same exact opinion as you. Than there will be less discussion, cause if you all have the smae opinion there is no use in discussion. And you can all live happily ever after.

BTW...You are right, you aren't my friend. That is a figure of speech, but I still stand by my statement.

 :crying:

You take yourself way too seriously.

As far as I know, I didn't insult anybody because people UNDERSTAND what I meant instead of taking it literally.


Who the hell did I insult by mentioning the word nazi and the phrase "neo nazi" when trying to explain to some VR fans what this site is about?

The Germans on this board? The Jewish community? Poland? People who were affected by The Blitz in London?

Did you know the nazis burned down a big part of Northern Finland during WW2? I'm Finnish. Did I insult myself too?

Please explain.

Maybe you get offended by watching the History Channel too?


For the record: I don't sympathize with the people who actually are on the far right.


/jarmo

I myself was not personality insulted, but yes some of those people that you did mention might find it offensive. You just threw the term out in a totally inappropriate context. Please tell me what is different from what you have just done here compared to the person that used a derogatory term to describe homosexuals? Why does he have to follow so-called rules and you are above them, other than the fact that you are the creator of this board?

Politically, I do not support extreme right or left views, I'm probably more in the center.

Anyways as someone did mention earlier this is getting way of topic and I do apologize to other members of the board for that. It just bugs me that people can be so ignorant sometimes.

Let's see.

Warning, people offended by certain words, stop reading now!


Person A: I hate faggots.

Person B: I'm a nazi and I hate the Jews.

Me: Imagine if a bunch of neo nazis came to your party.....


I see the difference. You don't?

The guy who used the phrase "sucking Axl's cock" was first telling me something about a civilized discussion and is now giving me lessons on what's inappropriate.



Where have you been every time I've been called a nazi, a Stalinist, Hitler etc.?

I didn't call anybody on this board a nazi or neo nazi. I painted a picture for you to think about. You just try to start going on about one word. Claiming people are insulted without even mentioning why.

I'm sure I'll offend a lot of people now too: FUCK!


It's funny how you get hung up on a word and me swearing.

While giving me lesson on freedom of speech!




/jarmo

Those people you're so worried about being offended also might not appreciate the phony righteousness you put on for the sake of trying (and failing miserably) to win an argument.

Good call..... Didn't think of that.  : ok:



/jarmo

I wasn't wasn't an active posting member when you were called a nazi. I don't think it's right that you were. My point was refering to people as faggots or nazis or comparing their attitude to nazis is all wrong. I do swear, I admit that and I did make a comment about certain members of this board having their lips around Axl's cock, and yes you are free to say what you want, even the nazi comment. Go ahead, say it till you turn blue in the face I don't care. I think most people here already know what kind of person you are. You clearly have no concept of morals and what to say and not to say. I'm done with the nazi argument, I've stated that I felt what you said was wrong.

As for me putting on a phony righteous, well you have no clue who I am so I don't really think you can judge that. As for winning or not winning the argument, well I did win the old argument about having the right to post here and it being about changes in musical styles, not only about lineup changes. For the nazi argument, no one won. That was stupid and I wish the whole thing had never happened or that I had stoped arguing about it a while ago cause it is clear that Jarmo (and certain others) do not understand what that word is associated with. Being from Europe one would think that Jarmo would have been more educated on the matter.

Are you really serious about that nazi-matter?? ??? I mean you took it very seriously. I ain?t here to defend anybody (but myself) but I think you are kinda overreacting on that matter. I?m an european too and I didn?t get it personal. Maybe I have some different humor from you.... I dunno but I just saw it as an example/comparation or whatever... didn?t feel it was there to insult anybody. Anyway, if this discussion wasn?t pushed this far we wouldn?t have read it you know. Just give it a rest man? :) I learnt myself that any discussion on that matter is just useless and makes us lose our time and patience for nothing.? : ok:

You haven't won anything. All you did was go on and on about how you have the "right" to post whatever you want on this board. You completely ignore the fact that this is a privately owned and operated site and that the owner can make up any rule they want (including but not limited to what you can or can not post about). But hey if that's you're concept of "winning" an argument then more power to you, you certainly have low standards of winning.  : ok:

Nice....  ::)


I know what it means. That's why I don't get your "you offended a bunch of people" shit. You still haven't explained it in a way where I could even imagine what the fuck you're babbling about.

By your logic, the history books in school are offending certain people because they mention the nazis.


If you accomplished anything , it was to pat your own back. Applaud yourself once again. Gotta admit, you're very good at telling us how you can outwit us and how you have morals which I apparently lack.


Unfortunately you're still as clueless on the subject of this site as you were before you posted in this thread.





/jarmo

LOL this has to have degraded into one of the stupidest argument ever, where do you guys even muster the motivation or care to join in.  Soon no one will even have an idea why they started arguing in the first place

lol you?re right you know!  : ok:  Reading what you said really made me laugh now  :rofl: Oh well...

You know, it's amusing when people who disagree with the way this place is run (because it doesn't fit their agenda) start arguing with me about shit just to show that they are tough enough to do it.

This while claiming to be able to "outwit" others and claiming others lack morals etc.

And, not forgetting, the old "I'll probably get banned for saying this" clich? these people use.


Nobody has gotten banned for saying "I think your site sucks!" or "I think your rules suck!".

You get banned because you're an idiot who doesn't know better. In nine cases out of ten..... Then there's always somebody who thinks spamming is "fun".





/jarmo

You know what, it's just hilarious how much time you waste on this section of the board. For someone that claims they hate VR you appear to be here more than you are on the GNR board in the GNR section. You look at the VR board and you're always here your name appears everywhere, while you appear now and then in the GNR section. If I had time to waste it would be fun to do a comparison between the number of posts you've made here in the last year vs the GNR section. You're the one that seems to have an agenda.

Hahahaha!  :rofl:


Go back to that old argument now.

I'd spend way less time in this section if it wasn't for people like you. That's for sure.


Now, can you change the subject once more? You've only tried to change the focus a couple of times in this thread alone when you're running out of answers.....




/jarmo

Ok, what do you want to talk about o' great master of the GNR board? I don't think you've won anything by saying "fuck you this is my board and we talk about what I want" and that's basically your response for everything. You have no logic to anything you say whatsoever. I guess it's a good strategy though cause you just bore people to death with your repetitive statements.

*hands darth monkey a kleenex* 

there there lil buddy.    I know you miss Slash.   One of these years you'll get over it.  :hihi:

They might be repetitive, but it's only thanks to people like you who simply don't fucking get it!

You can argue all you want, what it comes down to is that we have certain rules and we're not gonna bend them for you.

Get it?

I mean, how fucking difficult can it be to get that?

Are you also questioning every law they have in your country and demand they're changed to fit your needs?

Do you go around to your friend's houses and tell them how their places should look like and what they can do at home?

Do you walk into a Burger King and start telling them it's your right to tell them what to do since you bought your burger there?



Keep arguing.

You really amuse me.

Fuck you, it's not your site and we have rules which you have no influence over.  :-*





/jarmo

I don't understand why fans of New GNR want VR to fail so bad.


If VR fails its only gonna make a reunion that much more realistic.

Take your pick. Some fans...

1) ... just plain dislike anybody but Axl and Izzy from the original band and hence want the others to fail to prove
       their point that Axl was the only creating driving force in GN'R.

2) ...believe that everybody other than Axl was responsible for the breakup of GN'R and hence they should fail,
      dammit!

3) ... hate Slash and Duff for their lawsuits against Axl.

4) ... want VR to fail to make their wait for CD seem meaningful. I mean, you really must be a fool to wait for CD
       when the others are putting out great music, right?

5) ... hate Scott for his comments on Axl.

Free feel to add others as you see fit...

what becomes of VR will have no effect whatsoever on the whole original GNR reunion situation.   The only guy from the original 5 who wants it is Steven Adler.   Axl doesn't, and that has nothing to do with VR being successful or failing.

6) ... are afraid VR will be a competition for Axl.

7) ... are afraid VR's music will actually be better than Axl's. (of course, even if they would think so, they would never bring themselves to admit it!)

I have more, but they don't come to mind right now. will add when I remember!

you guys are all way off.  i dont think anyone is rooting for anyone to fail.  i personally don't really care if they are successful or not.  if they release quality music, people will buy it. 

Maybe... just maybe, we think there is too much talent in that band for them to be releasing the mediocre crap they put out? 

I for one, expected much much much better from the much hyped Slash/Weiland project of 2003.

thanks Jarmo your theories are helpin' me a lot. I'm meetin' myself a lot.  :hihi:

how old are you?

I do believe you can view that in his profile if you want to, I don't know what you're getting at though.

and Jarmo, isn't it theoretically possible to be a fan of the current members of GNR, minus Axl?
that would mean you like 7 outta 8 guys within one band (or is it 8 outta 9 with the current drummer situation?). if that's the case, I would call you a fan of the band.
not that I know if such a person exists, but it is possible. and in that case, you could say that person likes GNR without liking Axl.

thanks for the info hillel

talkin' about axl, i never said i'm not an axl fan. I'm a hardcore axl fan and like what i've heard from his new band but because he has the legacy to name his band GNR it doesn't mean that his new band should be named GNR. Axl was the voice and the frontman and was an important piece of the cake that made me fall in love with GNR but not the unique. Of course this is only my opinion.
I personally think Steven adler is doin' similar (tribute concerts) than Axl but on a lower level and without the name. I told it a lot of times, it's like havin' bonham and plant doin' their thing separately. or Ullrich and Heitfield or many others


peace and keep on rockin'

P.d.:upps i almost forget it  Jarmo I love you  :love:

thats cool.  but you shoulda stopped right here


BUT BUT BUT

I like the band but ....   ::)

well I'm glad you have an opinion on it, but your opinion on what should and shouldn't be GnR doesn't fucking matter so shut up about it already.    Obviously the person who owns the rights to the name Guns N' Roses is the person to make that call.   What can you do about it?   Not a damn thing.  So maybe you should drop this already and either accept it or fuck off.

Does the same apply for the vice versa situation?


VR's success doesn't affect me in any way.

I get excited when some of my favorite bands release albums, announce tours, have new videos on TV etc. VR does nothing like that to me so if their album sells 1000000 or 1000 in a week doesn't affect me at all.

But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to comment on the things they do or say.






/jarmo

^ I must have been mistaken then, because you seem extremely interested in their album sales and all other kinda sales there are regarding them.

so if Steven adler would had got the rights to the name Guns n' Roses, would you see his band as Guns n' roses? Me no



P.D: who are you to tell me "shut up"?

Jarmo why don't you answer my question, i'm anxious to see what you're gonna tell.
You're a reference to me

stupid question.   why throw out bullshit scenarios that never happened?  how about stepping into reality.   I told you to shut up because I am tired of people coming to a GnR board in the year 2007 and telling us this band shouldnt' be called GnR.  That got old years ago.   It is GnR, not a damn thing you can do will change that, Steven Adler has never owned the rights to the name and he never will.   Axl Rose does.   It wouldnt' be such a big deal only that this has been the case for a very very very long time now and trying to argue about whether or not this band should be called GnR is beating a fucking dead horse.    Get over it.

yeah... that is beating a dead horse but this ain?t: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=49060.msg1003358#msg1003358

Of course no. Adler was there for two albums and was "just" the drummer.

Axl is the frontman, the main writer, the face of the band and the fucking signature voice !!!!

Don't you see a slight difference between the two ?

I love how people speak for Axl as if they are best buds and know what he thinks inside.


CD STILL isn't released, Why do u ask?


Has to be because AXL is not pleased with what is on it. Seriously.


THere are NO RIFFS from any of the songs we have heard that are in any way shape or form gonna be classic or hold up to any Old GNR Riffs and solos.

Axl's work is magnificant on the new stuff but the music is lacking in my opinion.

So all the band members have grown up and have probably reflected and realized where they went wrong. U don't spend that much time and create that much great shit and have that close of a relationship and let it just go easily.

If u were tight with someone once, it could happen again especially if the people u have don't quite live up to what u had before.


I use to give Axl the benefit of the doubt, but I am starting to truly think the reason we don't have CD is simply cause it isn't up to the GNR standard.  What else could it be? seriously............

EXACTLY!

Most VR fans want Axl's GNR to fail for ONE REASON:

A reunion.

So maybe the same applies the other way around also?

Fuck me.

You know what's REALLY funny?

People come in here and claim that "new" GN'R fans only talks trash about Velvet Revolver and how they want them to fail, and one second later they are the people who are trying to do the exact same thing with Guns N' Roses, but they won't admit it for whatever reason.

Have you heard 'Chinese Democracy' in its complete form? No, so don't rule out the possibility about it being a potential "classic" or what you choose to call it.

Have you heard Velvet Revolver's next studio album? No, so don't rule out that one either.

We all should take the little word of advice and just care about the music, because this is flat out embarrassing.

Can't you read?

Just because their sales don't affect me in any way, meaning, it doesn't make me happy or sad, doesn't mean I can't comment on it.




My age is in my profile, just like you were told earlier.

Unlike you and others like you here, I don't feel the need to hide it.





/jarmo

ehhh, I don't know how much I believe that  :), I think you get a little pleasure in seeing them get poor sales. C'mon don't tell me you weren't pitching a tent when you heard the opening sales for libertad. Alright, if you say it, I will try to take your word on it

I just learned how to, so you're gonna have to excuse me not being able to read when I commented on your post. now that I know how to, you still don't make any more fucking sense no matter what insults you throw around you.
but ok, I...understand?
let's see, you don't give a flying shit either way if they sell like fuck, or if they don't sell shit at all. and still you spend hours commenting on it? allright.

those people should fuck off

Actually, not so many current GNR fans frequent this section anymore. wonder why.
I'm one of them and I posted that I wish them good.

Maybe I should praise VR to the skies just for GNR's sake as if VR had existed before 2003, or
they as failures would come back to a band they left a decade ago to kick out its long time members
and suddenly be very welcomed.  ???

Notice those who aren't big on VR in this section are also in many other sections.


Why not?  If all the other guys had given up the rights, the name would be his.
Of course I wouldn't be posting at a GNR fan board or seeing a GNR show.

Still I would anyhow have found the band of Axl Robin Tommy Richard Dizzy, Chris ron frank brain and/or bh etc whatever it was called and become a fan, just the same.

Well, he should keep a consistant story and there wouldnt' be a need for comments.   Everytime he does an interview something different happened.

Just Like Brian May has said on several occasions "I truly beleive Axl still has not found a guitar player to replace Slash", as in even Axl knows what him and Slash had as far as musicians go was truly magical.  I agree with D, the vocals and lyrics (outside of IRS and maybe Madagascar) are badass.  (the other songs i mention are good, but not earth shattering).  Just like Weiland can't hang with VR's music.  So if you combine the two (being objective at pointing out weaknesses from both bands) you get a great band......WHICH USED TO BE PRETTY MUCH THE CLASSIC LINE UP TO GNR!!!  Jim Bob, I am not saying i want a reunion, but if you took the best parts of both band and made an allstar team with them, you would have Axl, Duff, and Slash on that team for sure.

Where did Brian May say that?  Do you have a link?

Ali

It has to be Axl?? No, it doesn't have to be all Axl at this point.

I think the music is anything but lacking on the new GN'R material.? "Catcher In The Rye", "There Was A Time", "Madagascar", "Better", "Chinese Democracy" and "The Blues" are all great musically.? The solos in "Catcher In The Rye", "There Was A Time", "Better" and "The Blues" are all great.? Some of my favorites that have ever been in a GN'R songs.

There are many other reasons that could be behind why the album isn't released at this point.? It's easy to lay it all on Axl and/or the quality of the material, but that doesn't mean it's true.? I think you're grossly oversimplifying things.

Oh, and no offense, but do you realize that when you say that "Has to be because AXL is not pleased with what is on it" you are in fact doing what you say you "love" that people do, the "I love how people speak for Axl as if they are best buds and know what he thinks inside" thing?

Ali

Exactly.

I can watch football on TV and see all kinds of teams lose or win, I can comment on the games, but it doesn't affect my life in anyway.

Same goes for VR.

I feel different about bands I actually like. As I already pointed out.





My reaction to that was: How ironic that it didn't go to #1 when they pushed back the release until July in order to get it out when no other rock records were released. Somebody at RCA must be happy...

Did it make my day better? No.....

Did you cry and lock yourself in your room when the sales figures came in?




/jarmo

Brian said it years ago when commenting on recording with Axl and how Axl is still searching to fill the shoes of Slash.  Jarmo can find the exact quote. He isn't dogging the new guys, just saying how important Slash was to that "gnr" sound.

Smokin, Duff ain't on my team.....sorry. Tommy is overall a more talented artist. I love Duff, but if I had to choose someone to start a rock and roll band with, I would take Tommy.

My lineup would be Tommy, Brain, Izzy, Slash, and Axl.  Just for shits. :hihi:

Buckethead as a floater!

Axl has never denied that he did not find a guitar player to "replace" Slash. ?That's the whole reason why he decided to take the music in a direction different from the traditional bluesy rock sound:

Rose: I originally wanted to make a traditional record or try to get back to an "Appetite [For Destruction]" thing or something, because that would have been a lot easier for me to do. I was involved in a lot of lawsuits for Guns N' Roses and in my own personal life, so I didn't have a lot of time to try and develop a new style or re-invent myself, so I was hoping to write a traditional thing, but I was not really allowed to do that.

Loder: What prevented you from doing, like, a traditional rock record?

Rose: Slash.

Loder: [Laughs] But you could have found another guitar player or something, right?

Rose: Well, not really.... Not to make a true Guns record. It's kind of like, I don't know, if you know somebody has a relationship, and there's difficulties in that, and Mr. or Mrs. Right doesn't kind of just stumble into their path, or they don't stumble across that person, they can't really get on with things. Somebody didn't come into my radar that would have really replaced Slash in a proper way.

So once it was really understood by me that I'm really not going to be able to make the right old-style Guns N' Roses record, and if I try to take into consideration what Guns did on "Appetite," which was to kind of be a melting pot of a lot things that were going on, plus use past influences, I could make the right record if I used my influences from what I've been listening to that everybody else is listening to out there. So in that sense, I think it is like old Guns N' Roses as far as, like, the spirit and the attempt to throw all kinds of different styles together.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=200

Slash was extremely important to the music the old GN'R made. ?This GN'R is making different music embracing different styles and influences, hence Slash's presence isn't "missed".

Ali

nice point Ali...but then again we have his Dec 6th 2006 statement saying he finally thinks he has a "Gnr" record. Of course, it would be nice to actually have an officially released Gnr record.

Thank you.  And, yes, it would be nice to have that GN'R record released.

Until then, we have Libertad to listen to, which I hope despite its disappointing sales and Weiland's impending second solo album, will eventually lead to a third Velvet Revolver album.

Ali

Great quote discovery!  I am still referring to a quote made by Brian.  He basically is saying how hard it is to find someone to play guitar in a band after having a guy like Slash cause his role was so big.  You need a dynamic muscian to take on the role of a Jimmy Page or Bryan May.... meaning a player that is just as big as the vocalist in every way.  That is why I thought Zakk may be close in that dept cause he too is iconic like Slash and can certainly hold his own.

I never gave any inference that I cared about record sales so why are you asking me that question? You are obviously suspect to such questioning because you study VRs marketing strategy, record sales, and tour figures like your own personal bible.

Yes, I admit. I'm a music fan and I read lots of music news etc.

Did you know The Stones' latest tour grossed the most of all touring artists ever? I must be obsessed with them too.....


Your argument is really weak. Just because somebody likes to keep up with what's happening in the music world, doesn't mean they're obsessed or care about a particular band.




I don't care if you didn't care about sales, I asked you a simple question.





/jarmo

You didn't ask me a simple question, what you asked was a derogative and rude rhetorical question, I will answer it though, before you reply with another demeaning attacking post like? "you failed to answer a simple question". No I did not, because I don't bother myself with music sales, most of the bands I listen to sell a lot less than Libtertad. (to save myself from you picking apart little parts of my post, I know this not because i follow sales but because they are indie or underground bands)

Your diplomatic approach may blind other people from seeing some of the ridiculous crap you post, but it doesn't work on me. Knowing a fact like which band had the greatest tour ever in the history of music versus knowing record sales, venue capacities, and ticket sales of a relatively low-key band that you don't even like IS apples and oranges, that IS NOT keeping up with the music world. on top of it all, you have the nerve to call my arguement weak directly after unloading something so stupid.

The reason petty arguements persist so long here i believe is because of YOU, you are so stubborn and they way you respond is anatagonizing.? I will accept the fact you don't like or dislike to see VR have poor sales, if you can accept my opinion that I still feel your behavior doesn't support that.

I understand, but you are missing my point. 

You paraphrased Brian May as saying that Axl hasn't found a guitar player to replace Slash.  My point was that Axl has never denied that he couldn't find a guitar player to replace Slash, hence he decided to go in a different direction musically.  There is no void left by Slash because they aren't making the same style of music!!!

And until you hear what Richard, Ron and Robin have done on a record with Axl on vocals, how can you make a judgement as to whether or not they can adequately compliment Axl?

Ali

 :crying:

First I learn I have no morals and now I'm too rude.

I get attacked day after day by people like you, make a little fun of it because I don't take it seriously, and I'm rude?  :hihi:


You still didn't seem to grasp the whole idea that it's possible to keep up with shit without actually feeling anything. Whether it's great sales, low sales, lies, bullshit or crappy songs.




Of course not. After all, you're one of those people who can read other people just be reading their posts.

It's almost like you've known me all your life right?  :rofl:



The #1 reason that I post in this section is all the bullshit I see posted here.

Either in interviews with certain unreliable VR band members or by people coming here to post shit.

If I see something I don't agree with, I say so.


Isn't that what you VR fans are crying about? Freedom of speech? Just because I don't think Slash fans should come to this GN'R site to cry about the fact that he's not in the band anymore.




/jarmo

First off, I am not speaking for Axl. I am speculating based on the TIME it has taken.


Why wasn't the album released in March? cause it wasn't finished, why isn't it finished? Cause Axl isn't happy with it.

Why else?

If it was perfect and great, we'd have it. U don't sit on masterpieces.



What makes me laugh though the greatest, is the fact Axl even said in the Kurt Loder interview that he would never be able to replace Slash, Yet u have all these GNR zealots saying how much greater these new guys are than Slash.

Its that kind of thing that truly pisses me off.? Comparing guys who have yet to do anything with one of the biggest, most iconic rock guitar gods ever.

Also, Speaking of the Duff vs Tommy thing, Duff has co wrote way more classics than Tommy and also, Duff AINT PLAYING Tommy's bass parts, i do believe it is TOMMY playing Duff's parts.

Think about that one for a minute.

replace Slash with Robin and throw Dizzy into the mix and that wuld be one kickass lineup.  :beer:

Cant wait for the 3rd Album...First one was good ,it had 5 songs i really liked...I Like the second better..its got 6 songs i really like and i like the 2 unreleased tracks alot too.. I cant wait for whatever these guys release next..  : ok:

Sorry, D.  But, when you say Axl must not be happy with the record, you are in fact speaking for Axl and acting as if you know what is going in inside him.  Take a step back and look at exactly what it is you are saying.

And I think you are missing the complete point Axl was making in what he said to Kurt Loder.  He said he's never be able to replace Slash in a proper way to make an old school Guns N' Roses record.  Hence, the change in the styles embraced by the new GN'R music.  It's not about Ron, Richard and Robin "replacing" Slash because this GN'R isn't making the same music stylistically as the Slash-era GN'R.  This is uncharted territory for GN'R, musically, so there is nothing to replace.

Ali

and replaced the name.
The name of the guitarist that axl was so attached to that he had to ask Brian to come and help him with erasing the guitarists works from cd. But they weren't erased I guess.  :hihi:


Smokin It would be great if Robin was compared to jimmy page and brain may  by brian himself but what parts of your post are brians and what parts are yours really?

"Axl was feeling that er he was in a difficult place because the guitarist that he'd been working with on this new album had sort of replaced Slash........but the guitarist that had done most of the tracks had departed and Axl had a real emotional attachment to what he'd done....."

His EXACT words were "I am speculating based on the TIME it has taken."... That means his comment about Axl not being happy with the record is HIS speculation.  That is not "in fact speaking for Axl and acting as if you know what is going on inside him".

I speculate it's simply because chinese democracy would take a lot more time than you have got for masturbation, as he puts himself.

Right, he is speculating, but so is everyone else that speaks for Axl as if they know what's inside him.  So, he is no different.

It is in fact speaking for Axl when you project your speculation onto Axl to explain his motives or thoughts.

Ali

Jarmo, please find Brian's quote! 

I think Brian was pretty much dismissing the other players as a "real" replacement or that Axl had not found the right "one" yet.

I searched the entire archive of HTGH's news section and only found these references from Brian May to GN'R:

H: When is The Guns & Roses thing coming? Is that gonna be out soon?

B: Yeah, well, it's a long time project. They'd been really..., from the inception I think it's 5 years [wow] since they started making the record. But they made many many many tracks. [yeah] And now they chosen just a few they want to be on the first new record. And I think it's very good stuff. I was very impressed Axl singing fantastically. [yeah] I mean, actually such a unique sound & style. I don't know if you know his work very much. But.

H: Yeah, yeah, I'm their fan too, Yeah...

B: Yeah, a line is, it's very passionate and very...[hmm] very exciting, you know. And I was happy to play some stuff on that. I think it will be out on..., they talked about a Spring, I think, you know, late Spring probably and maybe they can tour in Summer.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=236

MAH: Speaking of good singers, we've heard a lot of rumours about the fact that you've been doing some recording with Axl Rose. And, in fact, many of the listeners, people including Louise in Inverness, Charlie Dixon, Ravi and Seth Lubin have sent e-mails in saying you must ask Brian what's he been doing with Axl. What's the score?

BM: Okay, well, I have a lot of history with those guys, as you know, because, well, I was on tour with them for a while. My own band supported them, which was great fun. They also did the Freddie tribute with us and I think I regard them as great friends, Axl in particular. And they just said come over and do some stuff. It's a long story, to be honest, and I won't bore you with all the details. But Axl was feeling he that was in a difficult place because the guitarist he'd been working with on this new album had, sort of, replaced Slash, because they fell out, sadly. I think that is sad actually because they're both brilliant talents and great with each other. But the guitarist that'd done most of the tracks had departed and Axl had a real emotional attachment to what he'd done, and yet he didn't want him on the album, I hope I'm not saying too much here, he didn't really want him to stay on the album because he'd disappeared, you know. So, he's sort of feeling a kind of divided loyalty and he said, 'Brian can you come and do stuff which I will like and I won't feel too bad about ditching this other stuff?'. So I did. I went over there and I think I played on three tracks and messed around on various other things. But it worked out pretty well, as far as I can tell. And it's very strange 'cause most of the Guns N' Roses people are not there 'cause Axl's sacked 'em all. So you're talking about Axl and the 'new' Guns N' Roses but, boy, is there a lot of energy there and his singing is outrageous. There's some great tracks on it.

MAH: Now this is really interesting because there has been so much speculation about this new album, 'Chinese Democracy' (potentially it's called) and there are many, many people who've spoken to journalists, who've played with Axl over a number of years now, who have laid claims recently that the only one track that Axl has ever laid down a vocal part for is 'Oh My God' but you're saying that there are more vocal parts then?

BM: Oh yeah, there's a whole album of vocal parts. In fact, there's two albums worth that they've got there, at least. They played me everything. Axl actually sat down and made me listen to everything (laughs) and there's some wonderful stuff there.

MAH: How do you deal with somebody like Axl though, when he sits you down and says listen to all of this? I mean can you really critique him and sit there and say, 'D'ya know what Axl, that's rubbish mate, you wanna bin that one'?

BM: Well, Axl sort of holds Queen and our whole thing in a great deal of respect, so I always figure as long as I tell my truth, he's fine, and it's always held out so far. He's always been very good to me. He will tell you if he doesn't agree with what you say, you know, I mean I went in and immediately Brian May opens his mouth and blab, blab, blab and I told him exactly what I thought of the stuff as it was, and some of it he went "yeah", and some of it he went "I couldn't do that". You know, like some of the suggestions and that's it, and Axl's a very emotionallly, kind of, connected person, I mean to the point where he's so intense about every single note that's on there and the solos that I played, he was totally into it, very much in the way that Freddie used to be. You know, Freddie used to go through my solos and say, you know there's this particular note here and, I think, if you did this and this and this. I thought I would go in there, you know, I'd forgotten what Axl is like and I thought I would just go in there and he'd like it. He did like it but he wanted to get into every single take of every single note and, you know, from one day to another Axl would've been in there like from 5 o'clock in the morning 'till 7 o'clock in the morning comping little bits of my solos and saying, 'can you get Brian to try this'. You know, he's utterly meticulous.

MAH: That's amazing. So, what's your position, you've just played this amazing solo, as far as you're concerned, and Axl comes along and says, 'you know what, I really don't like that B flat, or whatever it is, can you just change that?' Do you say..

BM: Oh I'm fine, I don't care because I'm there to deliver, you know, and in this context I'm a session player and people can take what they want, it doesn't bother me. I'll give my best and if someone will make a comment, generally it will be? You know, if someone makes a comment to you about your playing, and it's someone who cares, then it's probably going to do you some good, whether you like it or not. So, I'm always open to that stuff, always. There's always room for improvements.

MAH: Interesting. The other big question on the lips of our listeners this evening, "Would you ever consider touring with Axl, if he asked you to join the band?"

BM: I don't know if I would be up for those long tours anymore, you know, I did that for twenty years of my life, nine months of the year, and I'm not in that position anymore in my life. You know, I don't feel like I want to have that chaotic lack of balance in my life anymore. I dealt with it, and I loved it, but I'm just not in that place anymore. I don't think I could do that. If it was a short tour, it's possible.

MAH: Even if he promised never to ruin one of your solos again? (laughs)

BM: I'll tell you, Axl is a very persuasive guy. He's magic really, he is, you know, and I think he's not always easy, as genius very often isn't, you know, Fred was not the easiest person in the world to get on with, but someone who has that amount of passion and gives a million percent of themselves, you'll take any amount of stuff from, and I would from Axl, I think he's that good.

MAH: Shall we play one of his records? What have you chosen?

BM: Mmm. It's 'Welcome To The Jungle'. I heard this many, many a night because we toured with him all round the States and had a great time and everyone goes 'oh was it really terrible, are they complete bastards?' And I go, no, because they treated us with the utmost respect and consideration and had some very good times.

Plays WTTJ

MAH: Brian May smiling.

BM: Mmm, familiar sound. They were such a great live band, you know, it's one of those moments in time when everything happened in the right way; I think really the last dangerous, magnificent rock 'n' roll band really, so far..

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=250

We may hear more May this year; he spent some time in the studio with Axl Rose, laying down solos for the long-awaited Guns 'N Roses album.

"It sounds great, and Axl sounds wonderful," May said, noting that his contributions are not guaranteed to make that album, to be titled Chinese Democracy.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=352


Ali

**Sun 21 Sep 03**
I SNUBBED AXL??? WHAT ?!!!

Ed: This is Brian's reply to the ARTICLE in Classic Rock October 2003, page 10, titled "NO THANKS, AXL"

I snubbed AXL??? WHAT ?!!!

This is complete Horse-Poo - a deliberate mis-quote as far as I can tell, to make a cheap headline.

Who makes this stuff up??

I was NEVER, NEVER asked to join Guns n Roses. The truth is I was invited by Axl to play on 3 tracks a while ago, on the album which they were making in L.A. I had a great time playing, and interacting with the guys, and I was hugely impressed wihth the material they'd already put down. To me Axl is one of the great untamed talents of our age. Since the album is stil not released I have no idea if the tracks I played on are still in consideration. But I'm damn sure it will be worth waiting for!

P.S. I also NEVER would have given away the titles of songs I had heard - I regarded the whole experience as confidential. I am VERY upset that this writer has made it look like I blabbed.

God, I HATE journalists. Fabrications like this can destroy friendships.

Brian

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=824

**Thu 02 Mar 06**
CATCHER IN THE RYE, CHINESE DEMOCRACY LEAKS AND AXL ROSE

ah yes ...

"Catcher in the Rye" is a great track .. I was pretty surprised to find a mix of it in my inbox this week .... after all these years. I wonder who leaked this stuff. Yes, my guitar is there, nice and crisply recorded. It was a blast doing the sessions. I had flown out to LA specially to play on the record for Axl. I've sat on whatever I have or know about these songs ever since that moment .... out of respect for Axl .... confidentiality is part of respect for me. So I will watch with interest. I like the track a lot and always did ... and it still sounds very fresh ... the thing that hits you first is that incredible, incredible voice ... we've been missing it for far too long. Axl is magic.

Love
Bri

http://www.brianmay.com/brian/brianssb/brianssb.html

**Thu 08 Jun 06**
AXL IS MAGIC

See LETTERS:Yes, it was on the cards for me to play with Axl and his boys last night - but I was unable to get to their sound-check, and, without that kind of preparation, I felt that going on 'blind' might have been a risk. Now I totally don't mind taking risks, but not if it's a risk of messing up someone else's show !! The up-side was that because I was not going on, I could sit out front, and totally relax and enjoy the show, without having to think about my own stuff. (Also it did occur to me later on that probably 3 guitarists is more than enough ! ha ha! Great band, though. ) I thought Axl was stunning .... riveting .... I have seldom seen Hammersmith Odeon in such a state of electric hyper- energy. Just before the band went on, I thought I could actually see sparks in the air !! There have been very few performers in the world, ever, who could elicit that kind of response. And just hearing that voice, drinking it in, letting it drench the soul, was pure therapy - enough to keep the hairs on the back of my neck standing on end the whole night. Axl, as ever, is magic. Cheers
bri

http://www.brianmay.com/brian/brianssb/brianssb.html

Ali

Good work Ali.  Lets just forget it.  I read it somewhere, but its too much work to find.

Don't be lazy smokin. Go and find it! it must be horse poo. full of of misquotes, deliberate or not.

ppbebe, I was just an interview with Brian maybe in Rollingstone or something.  He didn't say anything mean, just said Axl hasn't found a true replacement for Slash.  Is that so hard to beleive? 

Yes it is considering in all the quotes Ali posted, Brian had nothing but positive things to say about Axl and the band.

Chinese, it was a long time ago when the likes of Navarro, and Zakk, and Bucket, and Fink were all there... He was just saying how there are so many different player cause he hadn't found one.  His opinions were probably prior to the 2002 lineup.  Also understand that Brian is a great friend and fan of Slash's, so maybe he was being pc..

Honestly man, I went through all that to satisfy my own curiousity more than anything.  I didn't remember Brian May saying anything like that and I wanted to be sure.  I think that perhaps it was someone else that said that, maybe Zakk Wylde or someone, during the time Brian May was working on the GN'R songs, and the names got mixed up.  It happens.  I just wanted to satisfy my own curiousity about it.

Ali

Look, he didn't say anything about Slash or any former member of Guns N' Roses... (Other than they were a great band onstage)

The only thing he said was that Axl and the band was "magic" and how the tracks he'd heard and recorded on were amazing - he said it in 1999 and he said the exact same thing in 2006.

That. Is. It.

yes totally. it's hard to believe that brian, a friend with the formers as he might have been, should say axl hasn't found right people after he heard the materials and stated that the guitarist that axl had been working with on new album had sort of replaced Slash. Or he's not as stable as he seems.

If a decade ago, maybe not. Didn't some article claim that a few bignames were called in to mediate between axl and slash then? also In another article there was a quote of axls guitar teacher recalling something to that effect. about 1997/8, nothing relevant.  It has nothing to do with cd, current GN'R, or this thread.

Since nobody will side with me, I will concede and for now will say it didn't happen.  I would put it in fall of 2001 era if I had make a guess.  My sumation of said quote would be "I jammed with Axl and the boys on a track..... Axl hasn't quite yet found the right guitarist to fill Slash's role".  But, Ali did great research, so for that I will concede. 

 "Also, Speaking of the Duff vs Tommy thing, Duff has co wrote way more classics than Tommy and also, Duff AINT PLAYING Tommy's bass parts, i do believe it is TOMMY playing Duff's parts.

Think about that one for a minute"


That is my whole gripe with the new Guns. People continue to slam the old guys but just as D said and not to single Stinson out but he IS playing Duff's bass parts.

Until this "band" puts out a product of original material, to me all it is, is a damn good GnR cover band with the original singer on vocals. I mean what in the hell could possible be holding up a release now. You hear about this abundance of material , "enough for atleast three albums".? Apparently this time last year it was being mixed, what will the next excuse be he is still not happy with the album artwork ????? I mean enough is enough. That is why Axl is the biggest joke in the industry.? Those guys in that band must have a helluva alot of Patience or really need the money.? I do hope oneday to be eating my words but i honestly dont think it is ever going to see the light of day. I honestly see a reunion tour happening before CD being released and that is about as likely to happen as me hitting the lottery.

Maybe the whole Slash thing is the reasoning. He is just not happy with the guitar parts. It makes sense if you look back at the events since 97'. When Axl was going to take over guitar playing, the revolving door of players that supposedly have played on the album. Having three guitarists in the band, etc. Maybe that is the whole thing.? Makes sense if you really think about it . He should let Fortus handle all of the main guitar duties he is a damn good guitar player. Whatever the case maybe, i do wish he would get the damn thing out because rock music needs Axl Rose back.

"He is just not happy with the guitar parts."  Really?  Did he tell you that?  :hihi:

Ali

for what we knows at the moment.
there's material for 3 albums where tommy plays, so around 40 tracks, maybe more, if 20 becomes classics, it will be not true anymore.
wait & see.

Never know now do ya  ???

No, I don't.  But, I'm not the one claiming to know how Axl feels or what he thinks one way or the other, am I?

Ali