Here Today... Gone To Hell!

In my other post yesterday, I challenged the fans to make up their mind about the songs. And I want to practise what I preach and give (hopeully good) example of what I mean with giving my impression of the song ?There Was A Time?. In regards to my other post yesterday, I would appreciate this not being merged or deleted so we can have a new discussion quality with more substance among the fans. Thank you.

The party is over. Birds in the morning, ?broken glass and cigarettes??, a reflection about what went wrong, about disorientation and losing touch because of fears, doubts and living in denial and a fake world that you build around yourself to protect yourself from reality (?up and sitting pretty on a pedestral of fear?) and the lack of trust, all the could have beens if only there was faith and trust and love. But the woman that cheated on him, in the end is her own victim because she is sleeping ?like an angel? (= innocent, not knowing, not meaning harm) ?in another WOMANS bed? (= the same will happen to her, she will be cheated on, she will reap what she sew).

As the protagoist of this morning after stumbles across the deserted battlefield of his house, his place to live, with all the memories, maybe searching for the coffee machine, his mind becomes clearer. Then realising it was ?the wrong time for anyone? and that he has ?got to see for myself?. And that is the turning point, the wake up call.

The rhythm guitar wakes him up where it plays the ?wrong? thing also, going hand in hand with the lyrics with a dissonant powerchord that contrasts all the beautiful but false (= synth strings, drum computer, child piano, fake birds etc.) harmonies until the sigh of relief (Robin? guitar break) leads onto the real thing, to the man being honest to himself, saying ?There was a time I would do anything for you? and the guitars (real instruments) taking over, getting more intense as the protagonist begins to realise he has learned a lesson but can?t help the other because everyone has got to see for oneself.

Now there?s real drums that play no more loop but something real, and no more birds and the strings (calm) lift off to the horizon and make room for the guitars (energy) to take over the ground. No more lyrics except the truth ?There was a time I would do anything for you? and that?s it. All is said and done and the truth becomes a mantra, a chant.

You have to love someone very much and at the same time give yourself up a lot do to ?anything? for her. Every man knows women are beautiful and healing power for the soul but sometimes they can be quite difficult too and even blind you with their beauty, both their body and their soul, when you don?t see the real person behind what you wish to see. Or maybe it was just ?the wrong time? then for both of you. Maybe you will even meet again and things will work out, but this is not the time. I think every man knows what I mean.

After the beautiful Buckethead climax with the amazing tapping (= all is said and done musically at this part and the same can be said about the relationsship that is reflected in this song) the song ends on the same drum lick as Metallica?s ?Sad But True?. I?m not sure if that was intended but that is one hell of a statement too. Because the bottom line of this songs reads ?sad but true?. But it also says things are not so fucked up because in the end you will see and live with more wisdom so life will be better for you, even when the party is over. You can start a new party, but first you have to clean up the place a bit. That?s what the song does. The first (fake) half is a mess, but then the second (honest) half is so beautiful it hurts. But to get to that beauty, first you have to survive the mess to get there. You have to learn a lesson. You have to see for yourself.

The statement, the message of the song for me is actually how it is put together, the duality, the contrast between the controlled but fake "beauty" described in the first half and the wild, less structured but more naturally and honest beauty in the second half. Good and bad, right and wrong, night and day, guns and roses.

I have to say this is a fucking great piece of music and Axl sure is a brilliant lyricist, he has his own style and I love how he creates actual poetry with normal language. Also, I have to say my respect to Robin and Buckethead for the beautiful guitar solos. Robin is the right guitar player for Guns N? Roses because he brings in the same vunerability on the guitar that Axl brings in with his lyrics and vocals. It?s not about perfection, it?s about expression. Buckethead is a genius in a different way. I do not mean his speed and skill. I think he could acutally tell some life stories like Axl too, something to relate to, but he is not as good with words and instead just puts his poetry and emotion all into the guitar playing. I think his perfection is a statement that maybe he is very faulted and weak as a human being (like all of us) but he is learning too and he makes up for imperfection with his guitaring as Axl makes up for imperfection with lyrics and song craft, both inspire. Really, the song is so good it hurts.
 
How many times did they play this song live? At the concert where I was they did not play this song. I only know they played it in New York and Madrid, New York had fire but Madrid had the best sound and vocals. The studio recording combines both and is my favourite version so far. I once wrote to Richard and expressed my appreciation for this song. He seemed to be very proud of it. He said he likes this song a lot. But you know what he also said? He said ?wait til you hear the rest of the album?. So I guess they must have even better songs than that. I would not worry about the album or when it comes out. I would enjoy this great music as much as I can.

This is how I see and understand the song. I don't say this is how the band meant it, I could be totally wrong with my impression, but that's how I see it. How about you? Enough time has passed to connect and flow with the music, just let it sink in and see what happens. I believe most people here did not even sratch the surface of the new material. It is ok and important to just rock out and have a good time energy blast and all. But sometimes it is worth to look beyond that. Some lyrics and art, how a song is put together, that can be energy blast too. And the insight you get answers a lot of questions about the band and maybe for some also about yourself.

Sorry for so much writing again but I am not a man of small-talk.

I agree with your thought process, and man thats pretty deep.
I also apllaud you with your knowledge and enthusiasim for Guns n Roses.
Also your language is very good, for English not being your first.

But

your writing reminds me of a story about the Don Mclean song, American Pie.

Story goes, a fan and writer decided to disect the song American Pie, writing about the thought processes, the charactors and the images that the song produced. This guy wrote a 6 page document detailling the the song and breaking it down piece by piece. Then he mailled it to Don Mclean to let him know that his song American Pie was so special to him and that he "got it" on every level.
Don Mclean said that the song was just made up out of thin air in the recording studio and that he didn't give a rats ass about all the emotional stuff, its just a song he gets up on stage and sings, nothing more, nothing less

not to be an asshole, but maybe your looking too deep into something thats just not there. Its just a record. If it strikes you in a certain way then fair play to you as all music is a personal thing

We're all waiting for CD but its not the holy grail of my life

theres other more important things going on

thanks for contributing to my day though

Thank you for your reply. I think know what you mean. But don't worry I have normal life, not think about Guns N' Roses all day, I'm curing the flu at the moment lying in bed so I have much time now to write down some thoughts.

But these thoughts I have always with music, not just GN'R it means a lot me but it's not most important for me, just completing, you know?

I think American Pie is about Buddy Holly plane crash and coming of age, the end of youth and the plane crash being the metaphor of the end of Don's youth and innocence, also describing the end of the cultures and societies innocence in the 60's. The song is brilliant but way too constructed to be made out of thin air. I think Don Mc Lean was just sick of people over analyzing his art that's all.

But then does not an artist lose control the minute he lets go of the work?

He can not control what happens in the mind of the audience. Good and right things can happen but also wrong impressions. No control, but you have to let go to make the good stuff happen.

exactly! any song by any artist can mean anything to anybody, whether it reminds them of something special in their life or the lyrics actually mean something to them. Music is such a personal thing, a song which means the world to one person may just be background noise to another.

I think you have fairly analized the song its self and thats great.

good luck with the flu : ok:

I think everyones interpretations of the song are completely different to everyone elses,
and when Someone analyzes the song, as what has been done here,
people automatically respond with ,"yeh that makes sense/reasonable " etc...

Thats why Some artists never tell their fans the meaning/where the song originated from,
as it kinda kills the song in a way, as they have emotions/feelings attached to different aspects of the song,

But I think some people are to analytical, and should just look at something and take it for what it is,
not trying to find a 3rd dimension to it, or see if theirs some "hidden meaning about a loved one/ex band members/drug parties,
whatever"

Back to the beer : ok:

no you are not a man of small talk at all.i thought it was beautiful what you wrote.it brought it more clearer to me.very good points.

Has anybody considered that this song is about Slash?

Maybe I am reading too much into it but the lyrics to me dont seem to be about Stephanie rather that he is talking about a male.

I think that Axl is singing about Slash and saying that he gave everything he had to GNR and Slash was on a magical mystery tour of playing with other artists such as Michael Jackson and the like, and that he was so out of it on drugs that he cant remember what Axl actually did for him.

I think that the solo's are deliberately Slashesque in order to make a point here. Anyone agree?

Well it's all open to interpretation.  It's possible.

yeah all songs that axl has wrote since 1991 is about slash or stephanie

all songs??  ???

You are cynical, but you are right. That's what I mean. That's what I criticise and what leads nowhere. Some people are stuck in a certain way of thinking they can't see reality. Has nothing to do with "living in the past", had to do with thinking outside the box.

He was probably being sarcastic.

And I don't think that any song is written about Slash or any member, but maybe the influence was there.

Brilliant. I agree with you 100%  :beer:

rock N roses'
you have a very good insight to g n' r.and i think we need more of you around here.possitive other then negative veiw points.this could be very good.i feel like a student learning.

Axl did say in an interview several years ago that much of the album was about Stephanie and their break-up, and that he hoped one day Dylan (Stephanie's son) would listen to it if he "wanted to know the truth."  T.W.A.T. just seems too personal to be about Slash. 

Axl private life is not my business but sure affects his work as an artist.

I think the truth to anything is undeniable regardless what side you are on, as there is only one truth. I think the songs are at least to some part about that very one undeniable truth, something everyone must discover and will discover eventually.

You can see the progression of Axl as a writer if you compare One In A Million and Madagascar both written by the same person at different point in life, different stages of progression. Both songs are about isolation. One was a young man in trying to find and establish a place for him in the world by biting around like a beaten dog trying to get away into isolation to be safe, secretly inside himself kowing only he himself can find peace inside. The other is a man in Madagadcar who has learned that hate does not get you nowhere in life and that you have to reach out and not to hide because isolation is against nature, but sometimes can help you see things from a distance. But you must flow with nature and the one truth, no need to fight, rather accept and find your place in the big puzzle, so you can make it work better. I think that is a great progression.

yes in life you are told
''that's what they want you to belive''
in order to fit in life ,one must have a sorta trust.this axl did not get growing up.so he felt isolated in growing.then he found ways to stop the feelings (rage,and fear,sense of well being )so this he felt after years of suffering (drugs ,alcohol ).that he didn't want to live a way afterall.that he needed to find the real man within himself.and thus over a period of time he found.making him feel more complete within himself.

my opinion that's all.

sometimes i like to stay in bed in the morning and put my alarm on snooze for as long as i can. i'm always late for work and think "there was a time i could have got up on time" stupid but there you go.

Yeah. I like the part with the guitar and the singing. : ok:

i believe this song is about himself no matter "she" references.

i also believe 14 years wuz bout izzy and axl :)

a guitar solo, using a minor pentatonic scale, what? thats unheard of! must be meant to sound like slash

In simple terms its the one song that makes my scrotum tighten when i hear it, it blew me away far more than IRS, Madagascar, Chinese Democracy and Better.Its closest rival is Catcher In The Rye.

Just my opinion.

Now I would have thought that was a bad thing...   ;)

Now if only we could get Axl to sit down and really read this original post. Granted Axl knows truly what the song is about, he wrote it, but it would be quite interesting to see his reaction toward someone that has found probably the closest meaning behind this song.

  Wow, it feels like ages since I posted my thoughts on There Was a Time.  Tightened scrotum, no.  Tears in my eyes on the 1st listen, I'm not embarrassed to admit, yes.  This song is a tour de force.  In my opinion, this is absolutely the best new song (and I really like Better, IRS, Madagascar, The Blues, CITR, and CD), and as an unfinished demo, is in my top 10 gnr songs of all-time list.  Needless to say, it could be the greatest ever once the final polished version arrives in stores.   

Song about Slash?? Umm, absolutely not.  Is there an alt. lyrics version we haven't heard?  :hihi:  How much more clear could the lyrics be? 

 

TWAT is about stephanie or Slash?, ??? I think Locomotive is about Erin

In a good way  :D

i never really get to deep into songs.. i prefere the lyrics to girls girls girls compared to coma.. i know i know i know.. don't even bother telling me i'm an idiot for making that statement.. i just mean l like songs about sex drugs and partying.. what i get out of TWAT.. its just axl singing about the old days.. .broken glass. cigarettes,.. cocaine in the halls.. there is a line about having a place for the summer.. ect.. lines like that make me think back to college. .when a few buddies and i would get a place by the beach... throw parties all week.. wake up in the following afternoon to a huge mess or next to some broad that you never met that was renting the cottage next door.. just living the dream..   but there was a time for those shinanigans.. but now you have more responsibilities .. job, girl friend, wife ect...  so in a long winded ramble.. i think the song is simply axl singing about the good old days

come on boys n' girls, it's just a f***ing song, a good one, but not the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

That's 42.

I'm surprised we can even discuss this song here. Was it ever played live or do we only know the l**k?

played twice live once at new york and the other in Madrid (i think)

they should have played it more live though, it's mindblowing

Thanks for the info. I'll try to find myself those concerts!

its a beautiful song.... damn shame that it leaked, could have been huge

Could?

What's "stopping" it from being a potential hit?

His english seems too good. The incite seems too good.

Axl is that you?  :hihi:

omg i was thinkin the same thing '
call me an idiot for thinking everyone is axl.but ........

This morning, while blasting TWAT on my car's stereo, I was thinking about this topic and for a brief moment I thought the same :rofl:

I also thought that it might be about a male... mostly because of the "other women's bed" line... unless Axl had gf that left him for another girl.

too weird cause i herd a rumor she was bi.but never took it seriously though.

Its about Adler...  :rofl:

I am not Axl only a fan of the music.

I second that (although the scrotum stuff dont happen to me :hihi:). TWAT for me is the best new Guns song... and can?t be compared to any "Better" or "IRS".

do you understand now ...?

I hear you, but the second quote is from another post on another topic and has nothing to do with this one.

It was mostly directed at the people who whine about no album but do not even go to the concerts, like "I want the album because my bootlegs sound so shit."

As for sound quality of course studio is better than live but then again listen to The Blues and how much better this song sounds live.

live is allways good.if you like who you are going to see.i don't really think live is all that bad.mostly looking and hearing axl.i never had problems to look at a nice looking band.but studio is much better to hear the lyric's i think.mostly live sounds muffled sometimes.but the music sounds better live.so who knows both ways are good.

I love this interpretation and of course the song Good work! : ok:

i thought IRS was more about Slash/former band members but this could be too/along with better

To me it's a sort of a requiem. For someone/ something the narrator once left behind.
Aren't some of the lines like 'sleeping like an angel' inferring death?
That's my take until I know the real lyrics.

BTW, rockNroses, FYI, check this link

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=78847da2b6b0b5ef58193575dccc9f62&topic=44531.0

sleepin' like Angel refers to Stephanie and the Victoria Secret stuff....the song is clearly about her.

i would think so.

Well lets face it, it wouldnt be about Beta  :D,

only yankin my chain ..

Ever since I heard the 2 opening verses of the song,
I loved it, yes the solos are good, but to me, the song lyrics, and the melody/flow of the song,
created a feeling in me like it was a nice sunny day in Las angeles or somewhere Like that,

Its a kick ass song, with a nice 90's feel about it,

However As much as I love the solo, I do find it a  bit long, especially the outro
and
"you didnt want to know it all, I dont want to know it now  x 50 times I think it is,
That gets on my nerves a bit,

and I can do without the tribal bird calls at the start of the newest demo that we all have


And yes, ill have fries with that! :nervous:

Remember that song called "Paradise City"? ;)

Is that a trick question  :P,

I just think that when that happens, its like Axl got lazy, and he just couldnt be bothered writing any more lyrics,
but then again, you look at 90% of songs out their today, and they all are so repeptitive,

Wat can you do

I thought the original post was very deep and insightful Great art speaks to a  person's soul.  I love discussing literature and its' meanings like the people in the movie THE JANE AUSTEN  BOOK CLUB! Also your analysis of the song makes me think of a relationship that i had over 20 years ago. All I can say now is THANK GOD I DIDN"T END UP MARRIED TO THAT GUY! but 20 years ago I felt like he stuck a knife through my heart when he said that he was marrying somebody else.

I don't think so. she was a Victoria Secret angel awake.
the person in the song had to sleep to be angel-like.
and what about the reaper near them?

It's impossible not to feel eager for the release of Chinese Democracy while listening to this song, no matter how many times you've heard it.

The subtle hints of orchestration, the astounding guitar work, Axl's singing and lyrics..

The song is simply heavenly to the ears ;D

"...but looks like I'm about to see for myself"

The realization of the situation and that it is all over and irreversible, hurts. Everything that you believed in, trusted in, planned your life around. All gone. Shattered to pieces. But even the denial period is over now. You've decided not to die. To live. To try to move on. You probably think you'll never be happy again or that you'd always feel the pain and carry the scars. Regardless. Let's just face it. Even if that means just floating in life for years to come just so you can collect your broken self and heal to some extent.


"If I could go back in time to the place in my soul"

Yet, the thoughts of hope for going back in time and trying to save your future are always tempting. Will always chase you. It may be naive, it may be childish, it may be stupid. But it is only human. Mind slavery in a way.

"There all alone, lonely tear drops, ooh, are calling you"

Looking at it though from the current perspective, you can't escape the feeling of loneliness and sorrow. It's a torn feeling. Pointless. Hopeless. But still, you can't really avoid thinking about it...as strong as you are trying to be.

"But I don't wanna know it now"

But you keep trying. Fighting. Even forcing yourself to get away from it all and trying to stop thinking about it...

"...'cause knowing you it won't change a damn thing"

That's right. But can you really just forget everything all of a sudden? Can you just control or change your feelings and start all fresh and healthy when you had lost your soul by losing what you believed was your soulmate for many years? And in the sickest of ways. And there was nothing in your power you could do to prevent it...
Well, you could keep trying. That's all you are left with.

Yet, the thoughts:

"but there was a time I would do ANYTHING for you..."

will be always there to hunt you...and to remind you....of a situation that is inexplicably wrong and hurtful. That no one needs in their lives. Ever.
A tragedy with the magnitude of a lifetime.

Yet, you are not bitter. You are not angry any more. You acknowledge and accept the facts. You don't believe in stupid consolations like "what goes around...comes back around". That's for the mean people. For the ones that seek revenge. The ones that insanely believe that other people's pain will somehow comfort them.
You are way above that. And even wish well to that person. Wish them to be happy and that in the end it is all worth for them. Because they sacrificed alot to get there...including other people's lives and dreams...

But if they ever ask for forgiveness or to come back in your life in whatever capacity, would you respond?

NEVER!
Not, in this lifetime...

Would you still love them?
Always. But that's irrelevant...

All you need from now is just some peace of mind....




Exactly one year and 2 hours ago the band took stage for their last (to this day) US show. It was probably the longest and most emotional and best performace of the entire 2006.


Happy Holidays and God bless!

^leatherebel...great f'ing post^

What an incredible song.   :love:

I forgot to reply.  No.  Absolutely not.  This song has nothing to do with Slash.  Seriously, the lyrics have nothing to do with Slash...unless Slash was a chick.   ;D

this type of overanalyzation probably  makes axl not want to release CD lol

write a book.  i think it would be more appreciated than this LOOOOOOONG rant using your inner thoughts about a GNR song. 
FYI i didn't read your entire post; but it looks like you put waaaaaaaay too much time into it man.  go out and live a little.  This isn't supposed to be a flame post, not trying to flame you or whatever.  Just relax and try not too worry too much about a band's lyrical substantial content. 

Beautiful analogy of the song and so well said.

This is a very emotional and soulful post.  But always remember...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger...that's what lifes about, learning lessons.

All I have to say is "WOW!" I began reading the first paragraph of your interpretation and I immediately had to play the song and read ur post as the song went with it.  All I really have to say is thank you for the insight and drawing such comparisons and contrasts is something that is desperately needed in todays robotic society.

alot of the time, the writes of the music/band members etc, Never tell  what the meaning of a song is,
for this exact reason,

The writer of a particular song, leaves it up to the listener/audience to interpret for themselve based on their passed experiences/emotions they are feeling either at that time or previously...
The words/ the way the words are sung along with the instruments in the song tend to illict deep feelings in some, where as pretty average feelings in others,
Thats why I dont like it when someone tells a song what they think it means, cause it looses all impact at trying to imagine what the song is for the individual that is reading it,

Take the song for what it is,
use your imagination along with the emotions that you feel when you hear the song, and have it mean a personal meaing for you,


When I read the long post, no offence, Im not flaming the post,
but at some points, Its like your trying to make the song sound more about something then what the song is trying to achieve,
Its a song, it has lyrics, heaps of choruses and a long solo,
Dont be over analytical dude,
but otherwise , good stuff :beer:

I totally did the same thing! 

Good to see such a great response with all the replies. Keep them coming.

Thanks also for the criticism, but I have no intention of becoming a writer or overanalysing the music, I just wrote what came to mind.

It was not so much about "getting" the song, I'm more intrested in what it means and what it does to you.

Like leatherrebel (great post!) did, just let your thoughts and feelings flow and share em here.

 :beer:

I think you did a good job analyzing the lyrics.

To me, 'There Was A Time' and 'Madagascar' are two compelling arguments that Axl is one of the greatest songwriters that has ever lived and his tremendous growth since the earlier days. Obviously, Axl is no longer 28 and he's seen and been through a lot in his life. Really hard and heartbreaking stuff. Instead of suppressing it or channeling it into anger, he comes through as tremendously honest in the lyrics and vocal performances of these songs.

To me the song is broken into thirds. They that there are three steps after a breakup: denial/rejection, anger, and acceptance. Keep that in mind as I go through my thoughts. I think there's definitely a correlation to this song. There's the build to the solo which is essentially a reflection on what has happened and the good times that the couple has had. It's the siren song that we have all been seduced by. "It was a long time for you...It was a long time for me" is a brief rejection of the good memories that once were so prominent. Then it goes to "social class and cigarettes" where the individual falls back under the spell so to speak until "It was a long time for you..." again where the individual rejects everything and is tired of thinking about how things used to be, where the solo kicks in.

So it transitions to the solo from Bucket/Bumble which is basically the melancholy period where everything is sinking in until the explosion of "Oh, I would do anything for you..." which comes across as a person yelling up into the sky while trying to figure out what wrong amongst the broken shambles that had become their life. Trying to pick up the pieces.

Then there is another short solo which lets the listener take everything and is when the individual is feeling a little bit better after letting it all out. It's starting to become okay. They are starting to move on and even though everything doesn't seem to make sense yet, the individual is starting to think that things will be okay.