Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Edit: Axl never said this.

/jarmo


http://chinesedemocracy.com/index.php/topic,31244.0.html

If it is true :

Axl rose needs more time.good joke. The Final Touches start as 2006.good joke

I doesn't take an Einstein to say "Hey, it's September 2007, the CD is not coming till 2008 at the earliest".

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out it isn't come out this decade. :rant:

^then call me an idiot, because I really thought this might actually be The year.

lol - touche

But the record is finished, isn't it ? Guns n Roses has just to put it out!Right?What does"he needs more time to work on the songs" mean??

Hey I wasn't knocking you with my Einstein comment, hope it didn't come across that way.

I was hoping this year too. ? But I'm thinking we'll never see it. ?

It doesn't take a mentally deficient child to realize that a 'Hollywood' column in the local paper is hardly a source to be reckoned with.

It means he needs more time to work on the songs. ?:)

I wouldn't be too concerned to be honest. ? Has anyone seen the article? ?Does it contain an actual Axl quote? ?Or is it just a journo's interpretation? ?

dont worry. I didnt take it as an insult.  ;)
 :peace:

I bet someone here would say the same thing even if the times had printed it.

 :crying:WHY??


well one thing that i'm thinkin' will happen, is if he needs more time, eventually there will be more leaks. The longer he waits the more leaks that will happen. I just hope that the whole album it self donesn't leak.

:peace:

When should we expect the album (seriously now :yes: :yes: :yes:)???can we expect it until Xmas??????

Yeah I was thinking that too.   Didn't want to post it in case we're being watched, but maybe we'll see a couple of new leaks, that'd be cool.

It appears Axl will always be putting the finishing touches on this album.
He is his own worst enemy I am afraid.
I can't imagine the idea of trying to make such a record and be a succes but he shouldn't even talk about it anymore... just tour and give good shows. Put on a festival with GNR headlining. In the States that would be a hit.
When I think of bands that have been missing in action lately and have made the jump back into the light I think of Smashing Pumpkins. Only two members from there heyday and there new album just simply rocks. It isn't like there old stuff but it is pretty good. Axl you should take notes. They had a clever promotion and pre-sale on iTunes, they even have an official board for fans, and by golly they even promote it on the various Late Shows and yes.... they even have videos.... in fact they even had a contest for fans to edit there own video together with official footage. Strange. You would think Guns N Roses would be doing something along the same lines....

*sarcasm* Maybe it will be released March 6th... *sarcasm*

At this point I think leaks are the only way any of us are going to hear the new songs.

Bullshit.

Axl never said that.




/jarmo

You follow the dude around 24/7 and take down notes of everything he says now?


It's more then likely bull but hell dude could have said it.

so the album IS coming out in 2007!!!!

Yippey!

we kinda figured that since its a news paper and it only has 2 lines in it. I think Axl would have alot more to say than just that. Unless theres more to it than whats posted......

:peace:

Quick, someone ask Slash!

Axl doesn't need to say it.

telecomunicaciones????? :o :o :o

You're so funny.

Fact: He didn't say that.





/jarmo

wow to have something become a fact all you need is for the Jman to say it.... That is good to know.

Know need for proof or any of that shit, just the Jman's word that it's fact.

The Daily Star :rofl:

How clueless....

I don't post anything as fact if I don't have some proof.


But tell me, what's bothering you?



/jarmo

clueless? I haven't seen any fucking proof...  Only thing I have seen is you say it isn't true.so take your clueless comment and shove it.

one could always send a quick e-mail and ask if its true or not?

Um - don't you think this would have been picked up on by, oh I don't know - gunsnroses.com if Axl said it?

It'll bullshit. Deal with it.

Stop looking for a reason to hate on Jarmo

But you are clueless...

I don't need to make shit up.





/jarmo

Yeah , but then your only going buy what one side has to say.Which doesn't mean you will be getting the truth.

What the FUCK?

One side?

Hahahahaha!



I just asked  a bunch of people if you said this: "The world is flat".

They all said "yes" so I guess you did.  ::)




/jarmo

Jarmo's trying to help dude. Stop being stubborn. Axl never said that. We're not lying, really.

what other side is there?
a gossip publication?

Apparently killing rumors before some take them as facts is a bad idea because this guy wants to hear from the "other side".

If that's the case, go somewhere else.





/jarmo

Not looking for reason to hate on Jarmo.

Just don't like being told something is fact without seeing some sorta proof......And why the hell would GN'R's site post something that most would consider to be bad new? Hell they hardly post anything worth wild over theri any way.



No I said I would like to see proof that he didn't say it... other then your all high and might word their assclown.

i've read in t?l?poche* axl has three testicles.


*[for french only]

I've been on this site for a few years, when something comes from a few people you learn to trust what they say. ?Mysteron has said somethings that came true, Jarmo has said some things that came true, Merck when he managed the band said this site is gets priviledged info now and then. ?So if Jarmo said it's not true we should be encouraged because that posting would suck.

So Axl told only one trashy British newspaper the news? He didn't tell MTV? USA Today? GNR.com?

Think about that for a second. Why would that be the first place he would go to?

Stop trying to stir the shit.

Of course you don't.  ::)




Ass clown? That's what I think you are, ass clown.

Unlike what your clueless mind might think, I don't have the need to make shit up to make myself look important.

I just post what I know. Facts.

Axl didn't say that. The quote in that rag is not a quote from Axl.





/jarmo

hell who cares it he did say it or not . that isn't my problem ... My problem is the lack of proof you provide.

Hell like I have said it's is more then likely a bull write up as for actual news. But the thing is probable right about the album not being out until 08 at the earliest.

Yeah I guess I am clueless cause I don't by everything the great and wonderfull oz..ie Jarmo says, without some sorta of proof.

So that's what the problem is. Ok.....  I get it.





/jarmo

Would you like Axl to personally call you and tell you that he never said that?  ::)

hell if he wanted to...

Probable like you would personal like to have a girl let you see them nude without paying but , I doubt both will happen.

My girlfriend hasn't made me pay yet after 4 years - but that's none of your concern.  : ok:

Is it just me or is this guy really trying hard to get banned?

What a sad sight...



/jarmo

Let's see, -6 karma....Nah. He's just "misunderstood."   :rofl:

Hey dressing up your right hand as a girl doesn't count.... : ok:

How...original.

Well I could have said your mom doesn't count... But her she started charging you.

Oh please.......... the Daily Star is the most unreliable, trashiest, poorest British tabloid available on newstands, its about 10% dubious so called 'news' (eg, Pete Doherty's cat hooked on crack), 90% tits and ass. Fox is more reliable..... and thats saying something!

Jarmo or Daily Star? This one answers itself?

Jonx

ok...
so in case the album really doesnt come out in 2007... does that mean that the daily star/fox is more reliable than jarmo? :hihi:

Do you write your own material?

Nope. why the hell would I wast and good material here?

No.  It's one thing to say the album isn't coming out until 2008 and it's another to assume or quote Axl when in fact he never said anything to that effect.

No comment.......... but it will come out this year, Jarmo knows it he just cant say anything  : ok:

Actually now that you have put his credibility on the line he might just say something to defend himself, i wouldnt want to be put below Fox in terms of reliability, thats almost too painful!

Jonx

Fact: Axl didn't say what this rag claims is a quote from Axl.

Fact: I have no info on the release date.

Opinion: I believe it'll be out in 2007. The year isn't over yet.




/jarmo

Fact: My right hand isn't my girlfriend.

Fact: My girlfriend is hotter than Timothy is giving me credit for.  ;D

Fact: My left hand IS my girlfriend.

Fact: I do pay girls to get nude for me, BUT I turn around and make money off it.

Opinion: Hopefully CD will come out sometime soon, but until it does, STOP FUCKING WORRYING ABOUT IT! 

Bye Bye Timmy  :)

well, I?m not posting a lot this year around here... maybe is because I love this fuckers too much but I?m tired of talking about rumors  :P

even if he never said that, there?s no album yet, so, back to waiting...

I?m still positive about this year too, the year isn?t over

see ya!

I don't give a damn if they put it out or not, they need to start doing some US shows !!!!!!!!

I'll keep one eye on the VMAs tonight.

Not that I expect Axl to show up or anything, but I suppose a commercial announcing the release date isn't completely out of the question.

you are optimistic for someone so knowledgeable of the CD saga

anything to base that on? what's your reasoning for that opinion?

this just gets more n more enjoyable doesnt it? as an aside (and im really not bashing, despite the fact that the hard of thinking may think otherwise), but im genuinly suprised axl still has a full band and record label. hey, im just sayin!

Stuff like that happens when you're one of the best rock frontmen of all time!  : ok:

Oh, give it up guys....how is it that almost every thread on here goes off topic so quickly...?
and it always ends up with "jarmo bashing".....what is everyone's beef with this guy?

erm...sorry?

erm, in this case maybe coz jarmo has more or less stated he has proof that axl didnt say what he allegedly said, then failed to provide that proof.

me, i dont care. i dont believe he said it, nor am i optimistic about getting my copy of CD this year. im not sayin it aint happenin mind, just that i lean toward the negative.

and he owes the proof to whom?
us?
same people who rip him a new asshole every time he logs on?

the fact that he is one member on here who can easily get in touch with the band's management...literally within minutes should be something gnr fans should appreciate.....if he said Axl didn't say it, then assume that he may have checked with them about the validity of this behind the scenes, and take his word for it....what the fuck is so hard about that?

fair enough, but just dont say "i have proof"! You know thats like a red rag to a bull!

so he has proof....let's believe him?

The fact that recording is done and mixing was happening earlier this year.





In time you'll learn the difference.


I really have no reason to start making shit up.





/jarmo

well, no! i dont believe axl said it, and i believe jarmo problt has had word from good sources that he did not say it, im just sayin, without anything against jarmo myself, that he said a provocative thing, thats all.

some tabloid told a lie as usual.
after all I think it's good that it was posted here to get killed, as there're still people vulnerable enough to believe any gossip.


that's a fact. time hasn't started to flow backwards yet.

In time you'll learn the difference.


I really have no reason to start making shit up.





/jarmo


the diference between what and what? and let me make perfectly clear that i have not accused you of making anything up, all im sayin is i know how peoples minds work in here, so you were gonna get shit on. I certainly dont approve of those people, or agree with them. maybe gettin rid of the thread or silence on your part would have stopped the bitching.

No offence intended, seriously.

 :peace:

as a frustrated gnr fan myself, i understand where you are coming from....but this is hardly an occurrence where you should be getting all heated up about this.....it was a piece of gossip by an soft cheese publication which makes no difference to any of our lives.....none whatsoever.....if it was a major piece of news, and the confirmation from jarmo depended on the fact whether the album comes out or not.....then climb into him with everything you've got....

but this is really not even worth the discussion it received....

maybe im not expressin myself clearly, but im right with you!

So people get provoked by me setting the record straight and stating this "story" is bullshit.


But when these "newspapers" write lies, that's no big deal....




/jarmo

yeah ok continue to be pissed at me. i know what im saying and i think its quite clear. and some of the dumbasses here dont know what to believe.

partially because its you...yes....if it was Mysteron....i doubt many would get so worked up over this....

actually, the fault for this argument and its resultant fan behavior lies within these "fan communities" and their administration.....for years, every single admin on pretty much every single decent gnr fan forum would not allow a statement such as the one you made to be posted without a "concrete" proof....they would delete it immediately without a proof of source....its a culture which fostered itself during the "silent years" of gnr....to eliminate gossip and limit rumor spreading....

so...people are just used to it now....no one wants to believe anything without a "link" to a statement.....

terribly naive at times....but its our own fault....

Just a question, how in the hell does one prove a negative? ... something that never happened. I call bullshit.

People from GNR camp post here. Isn't it a conclusive proof?


elimir, I'd say those people rather smell of jealousy.

I'm not.

I'm just puzzled by the reaction because it makes no sense to me.


If I read something in the paper about my favorite band, and then I'm told it's not true, I'm just glad the record was set straight.





I'd do the same.

But I wasn't posting a new rumor. I was making sure this one got killed before it spread.



As I've said in the past, I don't post stuff that I made up to get attention.

If that's not enough proof for some of you, then too bad. Your loss I guess....




/jarmo

duh...
that's my point. it's obvious we're getting closer....
but that doesnt make it close.

if jarmo says its not true, its not true.     keep in mind the message Merck sent to the fanbase around this time last year when he did that '13 tuesdays' shit.   He said Jarmo was the only person on these boards who had any access to info from the GnR camp, and just because Merck isn't involved in this any longer doesn't mean thats not still the case.

and that's very much appreciated...more so by some than others.....but that's how it goes....

then make it open.

Why such a fuss over it though? Why did anyone believe it in the first place?

Do you write your own material?

Well If the Daily Star said it has to be true - dont it? ?::) Lets Be honest they are just second Guessing about Chinese Democracy Release date We all know what they are thinking Its Late on Saturday Evening they are desperate for a 'news' story and Sombody then thinks Chinese Democracy STILL hasnt been released then starts to think "A Tentative release date given by Axl has come and gone. September 17th A Unoffical release date given by online retailers is nearly upon us with no news. theres only 3 months left in 2007. Judging by Guns N Roses previous form 3 months is not a long enough timeframe to put this Masterpiece out, I know let's put an article in the paper saying the album's going to come out in 2008"

As for myself I personally dont think it will be released this year now, but untill there is an offical statement from Axl its all just speculation regarding a release date.
 And do we really want Chinese Democracy to be released? I mean can you imagine this forum? How boring it will be?? there will be no bitching at anyone,No Insults flying around about paying Girls to strip for them and finally nobody talking about having a right hand (or a left hand) for a girlfriend ?;)

I don't get.. most of the time, certain people accuse jarmo of being all tight and in with Gn'R management. ?And now, people are demanding proof on whether he asked them a simple question that many other people here could also simply ask to get a simple answer... wtf?

If anyone here, who has been around any decent amount of time, is demanding that jarmo present proof for him unequivocally stating that a known bullshit-mag published a small story that is completely false, then they're clearly out of touch with reality.

If you'll recall, awhile back a story like this would have been getting people worked up for many days (or at least many hours) until it finally died out. ?Now, we have immediate confirmation that it's false. ? There is nothing to complain about how this was handled.

Some people drown in their own cynicism and try to demand everyone else do the same so we can all share their unhappiness with how unfortunate their lives have been since Chinese Democracy has not yet been released.? ?;)? :peace:

actually it's a notorious bullshit tabloid, which just put words into axl's mouth.
Too bad they have quite a few readers. :-\


 ??? I don't get what you're trying to say. does it anything to do with the thread?

Opinion: Although i don't think those were Axl's words, the title of this thread seems correct.

How many tuesdays is there by the end of the year again? I mean C'mon.

Again? whether 15 tuesdays or 150, all the same. One  is enough.

Christ - Some fo you give Jarmo a hard time?

He's obviously had contact with Axl (I'm guessing via Beta?). What more proof are you looking for??

Anyway, anyone based in the UK would have seen "Sunday Star" and guessed the strengh of the story.

we dont need any rumors or confirmations from any newspaper or other publication......


actions speak louder than words.....

We arent getting the album this year. This is getting lamer and lamer . 07 has come and gone.
...theres always next year.

unreal

I wouldnt write it off yet, there is still some time....... if nothing happens by the end of Sept then 07 is out, they wont go for a Christmas release!

Jonx

lol that is the exact same response and thought process I would have if this was 2001-2006. But for me to even hink or say that is just annoying at this point.

Theres always hope. And one day it will become a reality but until proven otherwise history speaks for itself.

I hope your right but unfortunately its just not the case....

Sounds like you need to go find something else to worry about.





/jarmo

What are you drunk? Theres still basically 4 months left till the end of the year. That's plenty of time to release an album.

Jarmo, thanks for clearing that up. I'd be really annoyed if it were true.

How many months before march 6th did Axl wrote that open letter? And that was just for a tentative date. People are missing out something very important about that letter; he also mentioned how much he takes CD seriously and thinks the album deserves a proper promotion. So seeing ChiDem up on the shelfs suddenly 1 tuesday is a little delusional, don't you think?

dude, you need to take this a little less personal.
what's with this passive aggression.
the guy is only speaking his mind.
it's not like he said something out of normal reason.
arent you giving your self just a little bit to much right to be deciding who should, and who shouldnt be the fan of this band?

all he said was find something else to worry about.  an album is not worth getting upset over.   obviously there is something holding up the release and as soon as that is no longer an issue a date will be announced.  all this 2007, 2008, 2009 etc stuff is pointless.   I'm not worried about when it comes out.  It could be 2007, maybe not.   I'll be fucking stoked when the date is announced but until then I'm not worried about it.

So one guy is done with GN'R. So fucking what?

We don't need a thread with a bunch of people repeating what he said or arguing whether or not we should be done with GN'R.

If you're so upset about the album not being out yet. Too bad.

You can just stop posting, leave, take a break or whatever.


Just because you're upset doesn't mean I'm gonna allow you to use this board to spread your negativity.




/jarmo

we'll be lucky if it's out in 08'......there are a whole shitload of tuesdays left in this century

trust me I dont worry about it. Like I have said in my vanishing posts, my energy and passion for this band and album have been zapped, taken away...gone. I dont sit here and worry about GNR anymore...

You might just say o well tough for you. A rosy picture is painted here......but its 2007 no release date or anything in site. A Bach single cant even get to us. cmon

I didnt say that Im done with GNr. I dont think I can ever get to that point. But since Ive been a fan this has def been the closest to being disgusted as Ive ever been.  Im sorry I dont have anything positive to say. Is that why I can post here?

Please tell me what is so fukin positive? I dont need you telling me how I should be a fan. A fan doesnt just go saying positive shit. Thats what is wrong with this situation. Nothing is wrong here. Everything happens for a reason and has a hom hum attitude. Its old now. Its like they have stripped some of these fans balls right off....

An update would not be TOO much to ask for. 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fuk an update...how bout axl grows some godam balls and says something meaningful and sticks to it. who cares about how they tore up japan and who cares about him and bach jerkin each other off.....

Oh fuck off already.

You just come across as a spoiled brat who can't handle the fact that others don't share your negative opinion.

"Who cares about Japan"... How about the fans in Japan!


 ::)


I'm gonna make it easy for you to take that fucking break since we really don't need your kind here.

See you when the album's out and you can find something else to whine about.

Until then, look up the word supportive in the dictionary.

That's the key to this site.

You might've forgotten that somewhere along the line or misunderstood the meaning of it. Maybe you thought the keyword was whining.



/jarmo

Freedom of speech rulez!!!  Even if people don't agree, right jarmo  :hihi:   staying on topic:

it does suck that the band's camp doesn't communicate as far as the album goes, but as long as they play shows and stuff, there's hope

It doesn't fucking work.

I tried it in the 90s and several people made sure I had to close that board.

I learned my lesson.



I also learned that I don't want a board where bullshit and negativity is the norm.




/jarmo

if the band would get off their asses and release the cd there would be no negativity

I'm just Mr. Supportive 100% because I believe Jarmo and I ALSO believe the main gist of the article  8)

(As in, I believe Jarmo that Axl didn't say those things, but I also believe the album's coming out after '08)

Can't we all just get along?  :beer:

We don't even know why it's not out yet and you just assume it's because of the band?

That's the problem. Everything is the band's or Axl's fault.

 ::)

Besides, these people will always find something to whine about. Trust me.




/jarmo

point taken, but i don't think you can blame anyone for being frustrated.  the new tunes sound so damn good that it's hard to stay patient......maybe this long wait will make everything even sweeter once the cd finally does come out.

it's easy for you to say. you are not the one busting your back to get them the cult status they have today.


he's not bunch of people. he's one guy.





and you concluded that I'm upset based on what...?!

personally.... I dont give a fuck if it's today, tomorrow... or next year.
I know the worst patch is behind us...
but whatever...

What the hell is that supposed to mean?




/jarmo

"It's Nuthin' New Ta You
 Cause I Think We've Seen That Movie Too"


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Well, isn't the band that hasn't finished the record yet?

/jarmo

Why do so many people want to spar with Jarmo.? Seems as if you will never win that fight.
I can not figure out why so many want to be negative.? It will only breed more negativity.
Try this..........Take a deep breath.? Relax.....Try to think positive.? You will be surprised how
much nicer things can be. :smoking:

While I understand your concern - have you ever wondered why the band (or Axl) has acquired so much negativity within the past year? What other forum can you think of for a band where people have to literally enforce banning threats to keep people "supportive"? On other fan forums, a troll appears and all the fans stomp the troll and he gets out of there fast. And it used to be like that here and there - there were trolls in 2002, but people were so supportive then and last year that the trolls were beaten senseless in a fashion.

But the situation here has reached the point where almost every fan - bar few - has become frustrated. There have always been "GN'R Trolls" since the '90s who used to exist outside of the Internet, in the press. But now even the biggest fans of the band are getting to the point where they're bashing Axl. You act like these people are just coming here to cause a fuss and "be negative" - but I do think it's sad that it's come to the point where I see some of the staunchest supporters of Axl from the past few years are actually turning their backs on him. We can try to be supportive of him, but I do think ultimately Axl is the one inviting so much negativity. Some of the stuff he's done recently would challenge even the biggest fans. I still have faith in the band and Chinese Democracy, but I think there's a difference between constructive criticism that is formed out of care and just "trolling" - I think some of the people here who do love the band and are voicing negative opinions are doing so intelligently and with care for Axl, but they're still being treated as if they're trolls.

Axl doesn't owe us shit.

The sooner you realize that, the better for you.


You either support that idea, or you don't.


These people are bashing the band and Axl for everything possible. Just because they're "fans" they apparently have the right to do that.

Facts are dismissed as bullshit because they come from the band these people claim to support and love.


Bullshit and speculation based on more bullshit is accepted because the facts aren't interesting enough for some.

Simple words are twisted to fit the agendas of people who don't even want to try to understand what was said in the first place.

Everything has hidden meanings.

Playing a solo differently means they can't play it.

Etc etc.

Sometimes it seems like being a fan means you have to find things to complain about to some of you.

You will never be happy.






/jarmo

Soooo....where are the facts? We have had no real true updates that have given us anything concrete. Is it it no wonder all that is ever discussed and dissected are rumours and speculation?

The recording is done.

The band's work seems to be done as far as I can tell.

I'm no expert on how albums are made, but as far as I know the band usually doesn't mix, master, press, ship etc. the actual albums.

Maybe smaller bands do, but not when you're a band like GN'R.



/jarmo

The band bring it upon themselves.

They have every right to do so, they can do what they want.   But it's their behaviour that drives the conspiracy theories, the ridiculous over analysis, the stupid rumours, and ultimately the negativity that is seen.

This will go over the head of a bunch of people who I won't bother naming.  But it's true.

Again, the band has the right to do what they want.  But for any action there is a reaction. 

Mixing surely.   I'd guarantee it.

Mastering, pressing, highly unlikely.

Axl driving a Fedex truck, I'd say damn near impossible.

The whole point of this thread was to make aware that the "Daily Star" posted supposed "news" which was mere speculation.  Instead of coming here and whining and complaining based on what was written in a gossip newspaper, why not go challenge them?  Go to their website and post in their Forums and challenge them to produce the evidence proving what Axl (allegedly) said.  And we all know that they don't have a single thread of proof.  End of story!

I dunno I find it completely mind boggling, how the fever pitch gets, over a small snippit of a rag tabloid, has taken peoples emotions, so far to a breaking point. Just by looking at the title of the thread, and its original post , was suffice for me . BUT I took the time to read through the entire 7 pages, and all I can say is wow!!! And Ive been on long enough to know how bad it felt some yrs back. And the last few yrs, have imo been nothing but good news, sure its fustrating that an album isnt out. I also understand that doesnt make of break me. As I know we had good things, and the reasons we dont hae the album today, maybe fomr forcues that are not in anyway hae to do with the band.

IT was always said if you didnt like a place (Forum) you could always leave, or you could create your own, I did , not so much from things here . But cause I wanted to with a different approach . by doin so wasnt a slag to her or wherever I choose to be a member of, cause frankly I support any that support the band, some places , may not be ones cup of tea, communities, are developed. And what jarmo does has done all these yrs is provide a place for GNR fans, I have faith him things he says. Met the guy and have no reason to not trust in what I think is the most obvious blatant stupid rumor to come on for awhile.

I dont think its fair to jump on him as some have been . IT seems counterproductive as fans to start ripping the same people who have IMO only is doin is best to transmit any info relevant. As the way I deal with my thing.

Just hope better prevailing heads , see beyond the mentality " I as a fan are owed!" something that I think we all know will happen. After being in this game 20 yrs. I find humor , sure I know others can also , and slag the band but in a good heated nature. (Because you genuinely care about them still and ultimately , just are living and will be happy the day you own what you desperately want!



PEACE!

jazjme

 :beer:

Axl wouldn't owe his fans "shit" if he hadn't promised numerous times over the course of the past seven years that he would produce an album of new material. If I promise someone that I will give them something, and then I don't give it to them, I'm considered a liar and a person of low moral standing - especially if (after promising them something) I tell them I don't owe them anything and they should be happy with what they have. At the very least Axl hasn't taken this stance yet, and I praise him for that; you, on the other hand, are apparently willing to ignore his numerous promises to fans of release dates for the album and are happy for him to promote four tours under the Chinese Democracy name. He doesn't owe us shit? Funny - maybe if the promoters had been informed of this last year, they wouldn't have taken GN'R on tour. Axl certainly indicated this in his '06 press release when he said Merck lied to the promoters in promising them an '06 release to help finance the tour. So if you claim otherwise, you're actually going against what Axl said himself.


Don't speak for me.

get the fuck over it dude.  he didn't promise anything.  you aren't friends with Axl Rose so dont go getting your little feelings hurt.

Axl: "It will come out this year." (Eddie Trunk Radio Show)
Axl: "Yeah, it's coming out this year." (VMAs '06)

Your definition of a promise must conflict with Merriam-Webster's.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/promise


Jim Bob, I love Axl Rose. I am one of the few who hasn't reacted to the constant delays by bad-mouthing him and trashing the band. I'm excited to hear whatever new material I can. But I am also not a blind follower, someone who would agree with everything Axl says and does. I can learn to separate the artist from the person. I love Axl as an artist, and I relate to him as a person, but I don't agree with everything he does.

I dont agree with everything he has done or does, but that doesn't mean I feel he owes me anything.  He doesn't.

Your right Axl hasn't promised anyone anything....therefore he is never accounbtable and he will always have a way out......pretty convenient. I still don't believe we have had any true facts. I don't care how many times you quote Del James. That may have been true at the time but stuff changes what is the updated version now. Not upset....just curious.

"this is not a promise, a lie or a guarantee."

I'm not holding Axl to doing anything.

Let's get away from you personally. Maybe you're someone who doesn't hold people to their promises. The reason the majority of people are upset is due to the fact that Axl did tell people he would produce an album last year.

I'm not arguing over what changed that and I don't want to turn this into an argument over new tentative dates. I'm talking base facts here. FACT: he has said numerous times he is going to release another album. He has given 2006 dates and 2007 dates, none met.

When you say he doesn't owe you anything? Maybe not by your standards--but by everyone else's, when they're told - as fans - by an artist that he's releasing new material, that's a verbal promise. You can't change the definition of the word. If it were true that Axl hadn't actually ever said he was working on a new album, fine. But he has - many times - referenced the "forthcoming" or "upcoming" album and has even given tentative dates and loose dates ("Fall 2006" on Eddie Trunk, for example).

When you are telling fans through the media (Rolling Stone, Trunk, VMAs) that something is going to come out, that's a promise. Like it or not. And maybe you're different than the majority of people in that you don't hold people to their word and don't feel like somebody owes you something after they promise you something - but most people think otherwise.

I like you, Jim Bob. I don't dislike you and I don't dislike the band and I'm not here to bash Axl. But I don't think it's even arguable that he has promised a new album. And by most standards, when you promise something, that's taking it upon yourself to owe something. People have been sued in court for not fulfilling verbal agreements. Obviously, no one is going to take Axl to court because it's not quite the same. I'm just using it as an example. When you tell someone that you're going to do something, like releasing an album, how can you claim that person doesn't owe anything?

That was for the MARCH 6TH RELEASE DATE! He said he wasn't promising a March release date. He did NOT say he wasn't promising an album. The entire point of that press release was to announce a tentative date for the album.  ::)

Axl has been talking about his new album since 1999. Last year he told people it was coming out.

I'm not arguing over the release date. I don't give a shit. That's not the point. The point is - whether next year or a million years from now - at some point Axl does owe an album.

People talking about him not owing us stuff also like to skim over the whole fact that Axl took Universal/Geffen's money to make an album and he signed a contract with them promising an album. The reason there have been so many legal issues is because he DIDN'T provide an album. He already broke his word and his contract with Geffen - and they subsequently dropped him from funding. Even if he doesn't owe us anything, he owed them something, and he didn't deliver, and they could have sued him for it - instead, they cut funding and released a Greatest Hits instead.

yes I hold my friends or people I do business with to their promises and word.  Axl Rose isn't my friend and he didn't promise me anything.    Maybe he still plans on putting out the album, so using your logic he didn't break any promises unless he decides never to put it out?

So it's as expected. You think Axl owes you something.

Wrong!


He can say that he's gonna release an album and then change his mind.

It's his art, it's his choice if he wants to share it with the rest of the world.


Many of us hope he does, but we don't feel like he owes it to us.





/jarmo

No. You like to take things to a personal level. I don't think Axl owes me anything. I think he owes his fanbase something. Why? Because he promised them something. You can try to make excuses all you want - saying he has the right not to deliver us anything - but all that means is that he backed down on his word. That's called a lie. If Slash worked on an album for five years and kept telling his fans it would come out, and went on tour playing GN'R songs using the title of the new album, then one day decided he changed his mind - you'd bet he first to attack him for it.

Don't be too quick to lump me in with Slash fans - I didn't really care much for the new VR album and in general I think Axl is a more interesting artist. I'm posting on GN'R forums for a reason: Axl. I love the new songs. I just don't really care much for what his fans are trying to provide as possible excuses just in case he never releases the album.

It will come out one day, whether he wants it to or not, by the way. Why? Legalities. You can claim he doesn't owe us anything - but he certainly owes Universal something eventually. Unless he's paying them back their $13 million and that's why he used promises of a new album to hype a tour last year... but I like to think this isn't the case because I respect Axl too much to let that be a possibility right now. I like to think he really does intend on releasing the album.


Of course he can. He could also rob a liquor store if he wanted to, or beat someone to death, or light a church on fire. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should.

He can change his mind, but when you promise someone something, in general it's taken within the context that you are owed what you have been promised.

And like I said - forget us for a moment. Think of the contract he signed with Geffen owing them a full-length album in return for their financing. Why did they drop financing? Why did they threaten to sue and instead release GH to cover their losses? Because Axl didn't fulfill his legal obligation to deliver an album to them by a certain point in time.

Sure, he can chance his mind - doesn't mean he still doesn't owe us something. Just means he isn't going to deliver it. I can write you a check for a new car. I can drive the car home with $0 in my bank account. I can let the check bounce. I might have changed my mind and decided not to pay - but I still owe them to live up to my side of the bargain.

You think he owes the fanbase, but aren't you part of the fanbase?

In other words, doesn't that make him owe you in your opinion?


You're just twisting it to make it seem like you don't agree with what I said.

Stop acting like you're an outsider feeling sorry for others.





Totally irrelevant and childish.




Let's assume he promised us the album.

How has that "promise" been broken?

It hasn't.





Let the record company worry about that.

Unless you work for them.




/jarmo

Jarmo - just because I think he owes the fanbase an album does not mean I, personally, expect Axl Rose to owe me an album. Things can be viewed individually and collectively for a reason. You're arguing semantics in a discussion that is wider. And (read below) I never brought up Axl "owing" anything in the first place - you did.


Actually, I think you're the one twisting what I said to make it seem like I'm trying to say I think Axl owes me something. I never said this - you put words in my mouth.

Let's drop the whole "owing" aspect. I don't really think that's even the right choice of words. I think at the end of the day, my respect for Axl would drop if he just did what you suggest and say, "I've changed my mind." I think it's wrong to do something like that. Forget whether he "owes" an album - it's a matter of human decency, morals, and staying true to one's word. You can debate semantics and personal issues - I'd rather debate generalities with facts.

I feel as if every time I try to have an intelligent discussion with you, you take snippets of my text out of context, then run off with them in a condescending manner to undermine my post. Case in point: you telling me I think Axl owes me something. It really bothers me that you would say this - because I never even said it to begin with. I'll address that in the next few paragraphs and you can re-read my post and see for yourself.


How is an analogy irrelevant? It is completely align with what is being discussed. Analogies are meant to cross into the extremes. My point is - without the analogy you seem to hate so much - Axl can do anything he wants. Doesn't mean he should. Doesn't mean he's going to be a better person for it.


I never said it was, Jarmo. You responded to my initial post in this thread putting words in my mouth, saying I thought I was owed something. I never said that - but you certainly accused me of such. Read my first post again:


I didn't even address the issue of fans being owed an album. You put the words in my mouth. I defended myself, and you turned it into a debate of semantics and whether or not Axl Rose owes an album.

I wasn't debating that. I was just saying that the frustration is understandable. Maybe you think otherwise - that's fine - but you don't have to try to undermine me by way of insults and unfounded accusations. I really do think you're a great webmaster, Jarmo, but sometimes it can be frustrating talking with you because I feel like you read things the way you want to read them and you just quote things here and there without trying to comprehend them a little better. I hope there are no hard feelings, though, and I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one! :)  Like I said, I don't think he "owes" an album to me/us, but I do understand some of the skepticism/criticism going on right now, even if I don't agree with 100% of it.

Your logic is flawed. You can't compare criminal illegalities to an album's release. Now, If the album were released and Axl went around breaking into everyones house stealing the disk ... that would be a fair analogy to your argument.

I wasn't comparing illegal activities to an album release - I was comparing what can and cannot be done and pointing out that just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. I could use the same examples for any analogy dealing with a could/couldn't argument. But that's beside the point...

I stand by my post. Your argument is apples and oranges. A better analogy might be ... someone said they would loan you money, and for whatever reason they haven't ... maybe they havne't been paid yet, or maybe they changed their mind.

Maybe you know this one:

Opinions are like assholes...everyone's got one.

Opinions are one thing. However, if one re-reads the post, it will become readily apparent, that nothing was opined. It was mearly a statement of fact.

I read this little page eight debate (sweet rhyming right there) and I agree 100% with what russian roulette said.  Might I also commend you on how well-worded it was and you made your points clear without being derogative at all. Something that is kind of rare around these parts. 

I would just like to add, instead of giving the deserving fan-base a record, he could at the very least, release an informative press release detailing where the record  honestly stands, maybe even containing an apology. If this has already been done then, I apologize hehe

I agree that he doesn't "owe" us the album, and that he did say the release date of March 6th was? only "tentative" - so he wasn't lying there, BUT he also said:

"...We would like to assure the fans that everything in our power will be done to meet this date. Once it is finalized and official, you will be notified. If we are delayed for unseen reasons, you also will be notified as soon as possible in regard to a new date, and the album will be released as shortly thereafter as is possible..."

So far I don't remember Axl or the band or management issuing a statement saying that the album has been "delayed for unseen reasons" or notified us of a "new date" - so as far as that is concerened he hasn't done what he said and I think we kind of are owed that.

You are missing the point of the statement you wrote, I believe.. If we are delayed for unseen reasons, you also will be notified as soon as possible in regard to a new date, and the album will be released as shortly thereafter as is possible..."

nothing changed on that.. but you are forgetting the statements avout the album is done , being mixed, and before the tour ,, I think people have selected memory on this, when tommy fucked uped his wrist.. and they couldn't do shows they had planed in Africa.. I mean we have been notified on things due course, and were only giving a definitive tentitive date.. but as all else has gone on, I think the band has been as forward as can be, the band members themselves have been talking. There as statement of Axl being on Bas's record and people are bitching cause that version isnt something they can hear, cause I assume Bas and the record company deemed to leave these things  for HIS album release.

Peace

jazjme

"It'll come out fall, late fall"

"Yes its coming out this year"

All this was said in 2006 by Axl repeatedly, at the eddie trunk interview,
vma's etc etc...

So, Not that he didnt promise anything, But making statements actually saying that its coming out year 2006, and continually saying throughout the year that it was coming out,
gives people False hope, especially when It comes straight from the hoarses mouth,
I mean If we cant take Axl seriously, and he is the only suviving member of the old gnr,
who can we take seriously, Merk?

Beta?

the defence of axl in here sometimes is reall really over obsessive. i mean i really think some of you have become so deluded that you need help!

i can imagine someone here saying one day, " so axl came to my house, he was a really asshole, he fucked my mom, tied me down and shit all over my face for three days.....BUT hey its axl, he's so cool, and mysterious"

then there would be a debate if he had hidden the album in his faeces.........

i actually feel sorry for Russsian Roulette, he worded his arguments well, didnt insult people, and remained calm...and made very VALID points. he's absolutely correct.

Axl doesn't owe him anything, he owes the fans (collective) and himself everything.


p.s he owes the bandmates that have had to put up with the eccentric delays for something like 8 years, he should repay their loyalty, faith, belief

EXACTLY!
Couldnt of said it better myself,
He owes the fans something, AT THE VERY LEAST, after all
we have stuck by him through the good times and the bad,
having freaks in the band like buckethead etc,

Me personally, and Another aussie on here, flew around Australia to see Guns N roses (I just flew up to brisbane to see them, and back in sydney)
Why? Because I believe In Axl, and I enjoy his voice/music/performance,
Why doesnt he believe in the fans, and more importantly his own band, and stand behind chinese democracy and releaSe the thing already,
I can only guess How Richard, Tommy and Robin and Pitman are feeling, after being in the band all this time,
and Only playing a small handful of their actuall songs, and playing a majority of songs they didnt even write,
Wouldnt you think they would want to showcase their talent, and actually perhaps receive world wide gratitude for their own creative work?
I.E CHINESE DEMOCRACY BEING RELEASED,
their the guys I feel sorry for...

People have to at least accept the fact that Axl may no longer be the problem. Completling the album is only 50% of what is needed to actually get the thing in shops. There could be numerous other factors that are stopping CD coming out. Record Company, Legal Problems, Contracts, Royalties etc

Universal wont do anything towards CD until they have it in their hands. Usually they have a provisional date and can start working on promo etc weeks/months in advance because they know with a reasonable margin of error that an album is going to be in their hands by a certain date. With Guns this is no longer the case as Axl has missed so many deadlines. Universal wont start anything until they physically have CD in the boardroom. That greatly lengthens the time they will need to release it.

I still believe we will have it by the end of the year, but that belief will expire if nothing happens by early Oct

Jonx

that is the only person he owes anything to....no one else...as far as fans go, he may owe something to those who went through serious personal expense to arrange travel and accommodation for show which ended up being canceled.....but even that's debatable...if they end up redoing those canceled shows, perhaps dishing out a few complimentary tickets is not a bad idea....

other than that....he doesn't owe the fanbase anything....nothing....we chose to stick to our guns for all these years...no one asked us to....



if they are paid employees operating under contract, then they have received their compensation for the work, loyalty, faith, belief....and whatever else....unless some of them have invested personal finance into the project and need to get it repaid as soon as, he doesn't owe them anything either....

what you are talking about is on a cerebral (emotional) level.....it feels wrong, it feels abusive....it feels incorrect....but when compared to tangible deliverables, the reality of it all is that he doesn't really owe anyone anything....

p.s.
this excludes the record company, not sure if he owes them anything either, as we don't know the ins and outs of the contracts, so can't really debate that one either....

Some of you really need to get over the whole owing thing.

He doesn't owe his fans anything. Especially the vultures that roam these boards.


Axl's letter was informative and explained the reasons why things had happened as well as their future plans. That wasn't good enough for these vultures.

They just had to take those words and twist them into meaning something else.

Something was suddenly made into a promise and since it didn't happen Axl lied.



I don't know how you (the ones who claim you are owed) think you have supported the making of this album. It seems like if anything, you're the ones trying hard not to support the band at all.



/jarmo

I think having us is a double edged sword.

we the cyberfans were the first to accept the new band, and I guess up to some point we were kinda of a moral support, and an omen that the new band will be well accepted back when they were still "new".
but then again, cyberfans are mainly to blame for all the bootlegs and leaks that happened over the years.


also, I dont see how someone complaining has anything to do with being a hater. someone complaining because the album is not out, only shows that the person cares.

Cares about what?

How many of these people can honestly say they're upset that the album isn't out because they want it out for Axl's and the band's sake?

Instead of being upset because they want to hear the songs now?



Let's assume you're working on something big and instead of supporting you, all I'm doing is telling you "why aren't you done?", "you lied to me, you promised me you'd be done last week!" and shit like that.

Is that caring and supporting to you?





/jarmo

i know this silence is a bit longlasting.. but i dont see any reason on start bashing GNR for that reason.
Somehow i have a feeling they are working hard now to release this album. We just gotta wait and see.
Lets hope for the announcement to come.. and calm down..

I think that none of these discussions are at all constructive. Sometimes these forums come off like a GN'R bitch session. I know I have gotten frustrated and typed things here I regretted but it seems to me some posters here do nothing but start new anti-gn'r and anti-cd threats/posts all day long.

A certain level of complaining would be expected with GN'R, most bands lose fans within months of splitting, GN'R split and reformed and produced 1 track in 10 years. Clearly fans are gonna be a little annoyed. On the other hand, posting smack and shit-talking day in and day out just makes Jarmo's life miserable and makes these board difficult to use as a resource for real info.

Jarmo, don't resort to name-calling, the nay-sayers are not worth it. It is pointless, and I am sure you're more tired than any of these folks. You dedicate alot of time to a band that you want new music from likely more than anyone on these forums. The fact that you created, and upkeep this forum shows more drive, invested time and loyalty to the band than anyone I've seen here, I know I wouldn't do it. I would have shut ?these forums in December of last year

Well Jarmo, and I've no axe to grind, you've mentioned about an assumed reason for the album being for the posters sake rather than that of the band. For what its worth, in your land probably nothing, people want it out for a number of reasons, if nothing else to shut the muther fuckin doubters up!!!!

I, along with many others I suspect can wait, but after last years debarkle - not entirely Axl's fault but none the less added to it by saying it would be out. Given that a tentive letter was released, and a few snippits since, all news suggest that the final mix should be complete by now. A simple its mixed, but a few details to sort out before it hits the shops would do wonders for all concerned. IN MY OPINION, everything is pointing to a christmas or Thanksgiving release, does all quiet mean video's being done for a mass publicity drive, me suspects it is, but then again what do I know.

And slightly off topic but relivent all the same, does that mean the set list at shows will change on release, I doubt it, mearly that the audience will now know the songs....

i can honestly say that i want the album to come out and for the bands well being. i'm sick of the media and (the majority) of the public thinking that Axl is a fat lard ass joke (which we know he is not) and that this band is a cover band.

you may say fuck the media etc etc. or axl doesn't care about the meida. but the fact is if he wants to be a success story again, then he should care.

comments like "employees under contract" are not good for the band either. thats not a valid argument for the album not being here or the other guys in the band being upset that their work has not been recognised yet.


put it this way,

imagine being the best band in the world, and you have a bunch of songs thgat are fucking killer, that will change everyone's opionion of you and your band, but someone / something prevents the release or stops the ball rollling time and time again...................

that would be frustrating, contract or no contract.

I agree.
but the problem is that there are people that are labeled vultures, although they are posting with best intentions.... (in only this thread, I can see at least 5 people being threated that way)

as far as people who only want more and more... I'm more pissed off at them than you.

It is time to release the album point blank. I am not a vulture wanting more and more. I just would like to see this album come out for the band's credibility and my enjoyment. I do not badmouth the band and whine in doing so...I just know the album should be out now but I will continue to wait as I have for years...

Jarmo, I rarely post on this board because it really seems you have a ax to grind with anyone or anything that isn't 110% pro axl.  personally I love axl and the new band. I saw them play in 02' in boston and hartford, saw them in 06 at hammerstein and msg all 4 shows withing the first 10 rows.  Thought they were great live. However you can't tell me he doesn't owe the fans something. I got all excited in 02 for the new album, got all excited again in 06' for the new album.  Neither time did he come through.  Now do you know any band out there that can tour and make a living without a album??? Not very many. Axl has made his living with gnr because of the fans, not without them.  Without us, the fans, Gnr would probably all be dead by now living in the streets on heroin.  Because their music hit a chord with fans we in turn made gnr what they are today. Now axl it taking that trust and starting over.  Well it's been over 10 years and 5 years since rd 1 started with the 02' vma's. I am sorry to say he does owe us a album and new music which he has promised us. You really think these 02 and 06 tours are for us. No they are money makers on the promise of a new album which I hate to say is looking more and more like we will never get to hear it.  If axl wants to make music for himself and not let anyone hear it than he should just play free shows and post songs on the internet.  When you charge people 60-100 dollars a ticket on a tour promoting a new album you do owe something.  This show and band are getting to be a joke with all the promises of release dates and it will be this year shit. I still have my preorder ticket for the December 02 date that the album was coming out.  Sorry for my venting but I for one feel owed new music. I have supported this band and axl's right as artist but enough is enough either shit or get off the pot.  It's been 6 mos since the latest March release date and we can't even get a update as to what the hold up is???? How hard is it to say sorry gunners, mixing has taken a little longer than expected stay tuned.  Still shooting for end of year. Or even, doesn't look good for this year, hope to have new music for 08'.  Either way, news about sebastian bach's album instead of update on a gnr album on a gnr website is a joke. 
done ranting
E :beer:

Trust me, he will share his "art" with us or the rest of the world...

By now/ so far, Axl is playing hide and seek, but when the record go out ( if that it's possible), Axl will appear in every TV show and megazine trying to SELL us his """art"""....

I never doubted the fact that he would release the album.

But I don't think he owes me it.

There's a difference.


It's very noble of some of you to say you want the album for the band's sake instead of saying you want it out for your own sake.

But it seems like when you claim this, you don't really care about the way it's released. If you cared so much about the band wouldn't you be able to understand that maybe they want their album to be released when they think it's ready for release on their terms?

Not dictated by what others think.

And by ready for release I don't mean recorded and mixed. I'm talking about making sure everything is the way the band wants it.

Proper promotion etc.




/jarmo

I honestly feel that I fall firmly into the category of wanting the album released for the good of the band. Having said that, I still feel some frustration. I really thought last year would've been the best time to do everything.

I understand Jarmo?s point; Axl doesn?t owe anything to the fans. And I am surprised how bad called ?fans? judge Axl all the time. I have the perception that there are some ?fans? that focuses only on what they think are the negative aspects of Axl. The release of CD is something very personal of Axl and he has told people about the plans he has with the album but as he says those are not promises or guarantees.
I have an analogy, when you are doing a master degree thesis you can tell your family that you finish in certain date, but then there are delays or you have to give other direction to your project and you don?t finish, that no make you a liar, you are the only one who knows when you finish your project and if you have to abort the project is your business.
I would like fans really support Axl. I visit regularly HTGTH because this is a site when Axl is treated with the respect he deserves and I have enjoyed many years the music Axl has made. I never visit, for example, the Bon Jovi sites because I don?t like him but I must not bash him in a site dedicated to him.

Come on! I don't think that Axl cares so much about the money! I think he cares more about his reputation. He tries to make a perfect album  because he doesn't want people to say that he can't write good music anymore.And in addition Axl never appeared in many TV shows or magazines!

me...big time....these guys take so much shit unfairly, from the media and the fanbase....my support goes to them 110%....in every way possible...to each and every one of them...they are serious troopers, and deserve no less than to have this album the way they want to have it, at the time they want to have it....

/jarmo is right. Axl?s gonna be ready, when he feels/decides the timing is right. I hope /jarmo is right on the album surfacing in 2007, too. We?d have it real soon then, and it?ll be good for Axl and the band as well.
Just my 2 cents!

personally, I'm ok with the wait. I know it will be out, and that's enough for me.
I only hope we get a little more communication from the band.


I understand that some people might interpret the persistent silence as if something has gone terribly wrong within the camp and thing to worry about.
just remember the 2002... all things back then pointed to a soon release, only to be later spoiled by BH leaving.
I doubt something like that could happen again, but the mixing doesnt mean that the band is out of the woods yet.
The record company, and/or some other problems could cause something else to worry about,
and an occasional "everything is fine" by the band could only reinforce those who actually stuck with the band.


you're an F1 fan... just take a look at McLaren this season... everything is going great... and 4 races before the end of the season the legal problems could cost them the lot.

great post 100% agree : ok: : ok:

Jarmo I agree with your properly promoted issue, BUT what is the hold up with promotion???? this should be the easiest of the issues. Coming off a sucessful tour, how about release a single. Get some radio play. Do a interview or two.  Maybe a video.  Announce a dec release date.  Announce a Vegas show for New Years and a 08 tour in support of the album.  Why is promotion holding up the album release??????? Not likely in my oppinion.

I just don't know, maybe you didn't live the earlier times, but Guns n' Roses was the band more comercial that I have been untill now, there was a Guns n' Roses advertisment in every corner of this planet (just think about this, I am from Chile ?:hihi:), so, they got used us buying every GNR product. so Axl Rose has a big responsability and he cannot have a calm attitude about his fans...

I'm seriously concerned about the future of a band that makes THREE big tours to promote and release NOTHING. They teased the fans with a couple songs that were supposed to be on radios and fans' mp3 players after that, but this hype is much colder now. If they were just needing money for the album's costs, it's alright then, but now that the last tour is turning into part of the past and GN'R's name isn't on top of newspapers anymore, they'll need to go on tour AGAIN before releasing this album. Axl himself said that he wouldn't put the baby out without proper promotion, and we didn't see a damn poster yet... My guess is: no new leg of the tour for october or november, no release in 2007, and there goes another "GN'R's year". ?: ok:

Fuckin' christ. Guns N' Roses is Axl's life and nobody but he owns it. He will release the album when he wants it. He don't owe you anything. Get over it and move on with your life. A while back i was also whining about the album and how much longer it has to take before they release it but at this moment i just don't give a flyin' fuck about it. If they release it,good. If they don't release it,so what. It's not the end of the world.

I didn't say it did!

I'm saying, let the band figure everything out so they get the things they feel are needed for the release.

An album released on their terms instead of just released so you can have something to digest before you move onto something else in a few weeks time.





If you think GN'R is about money, then I think you misunderstood something along the line.

The fans who saw the shows in 2007 didn't give a fuck if the shows weren't promoting anything.

What happened to just going to a show and enjoying it instead of trying to find reasons behind every single thing?



/jarmo

I've been saying this for a while, but i ll say it again.  We can't control the release of the album, what we can control is if we go see them tour or not.  If you think not going to see them on tour because of no album makes a difference, it doesn't.  I had a great time at every show I went to, so I just control the things I can, and the things I cant, I cant worry about .

You'd think everybody would be used to the silence by now. If you've had patience to make it this far, then what is a little more? I rarely even wonder about the release anymore, nor do I wonder if Axl will tell us "news". It will happen when it happens.

1: Tell me Jarmo. What is this 2006- 2007 G N' R all about? Touring?
2: Appetite for destruction. A bit lame isn't it? Promoting a record from the original G N' R.

[I just don't know, maybe you didn't live the earlier times, but Guns n' Roses was the band more comercial that I have been untill now, there was a Guns n' Roses advertisment in every corner of this planet (just think about this, I am from Chile ?:hihi:), so, they got used us buying every GNR product. so Axl Rose has a big responsability and he cannot have a calm attitude about his fans...

I live the earlier times; I am a GNR fan since 1988. But I am sure Axl doesn?t owe us anything. If I pay money for a poster or a T shirt, I used them. I have not paid money for Chinese Democracy then Axl doesn?t owe me anything. The people who bought a ticket for a concert, they went to the concert so Axl doesn?t owe them anything. I choose love Axl and GNR, he doesn?t force me to be his fan, so I can not blame him for spend my money buying GNR music or posters or magazines.

Agreed! But in /jarmos opinion it?s coming out in 2007. So /jarmo is probably gonna say 2007 is the year (of the release of CD). imho 2006-2007 where the years of Del James. He was able to travel the entire planet!! I?m sure /jarmo knows him personally. : ok:

Infact he is. The moment you got your ticket you'll expect that the show will go on. They owe you a new show if they cancel it.

I do agree that the live show is fun and I had fun. But then dont' call it the chinese democracy world tour. Call it what it is. New Gnr Live at MSG!!! ?Which in it's own right is fun ,but it's not! It's a tour promoting a new album that hasn't seen the light of day in 5 years. ?I really will not buy tickets to the next tour unless we have a new album because no matter how much I enjoy the show< It's like the saying goes. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. ?Either put a NEW ALBUM out and promote the hell out of it and KICK ASS like I know GNR can or just call it a day and drop the charade. Put chinese democracy on the shelf, but scott wieland back in rehab and do GNR reunion tour. ?Either way do something as for the past 5 years we have all had are chains jerked with RD 1 2002, 10 sundays left, definatley this year, march 7th, etc. ?If it's not good enough to put out now then you know what chances are it never will be. ?So my message to AXL is grab your ball put the album out and LETS ROCK.
E

LOL
should have been grab your balls and lets rock. not ball
Sorry

Ok. Breath very slowly and lay that hash pipe aside. ;D

Sorry, I am done.  Now I will go back in my hole and wait for the album to come out SOON!!!  Hopefully soon is the word.

Some of you guys take this shit waaaay too seriously.

But Axl said in 2006 (at the VMA?s): "it will be this year"! He was touring, threatening to release an album. :rant:

If he said ?it will be this year?, I am completely sure he thought that he would release the album in 2006. We don?t know what are happening in Axl?s life. My point is that he told something to the fans but he can not be judge for this. The music is an art, Axl is an artist that shares some of his feeling with his fans, but like every person in the world he has his own life and he deserves respect. I really think that he must release CD when he feels is the right moment or when he wants. And I am sure that most of the people who went to the 2008/2007 shows enjoys every minute of these shows no matter the tour was named Chinese Democracy Tour or not. I really want that GNR come to South America and I would be happy to hear them singing the old songs and the new songs. I really want to have CD in my hands and I waited for March 6 very excited but I comprehend Axl has reasons for not releasing CD.
I have enjoyed Axl?s music for many years and the only way to thank him all the good moments I have spend with his music is waiting with patient and the most important ?don`t damn him?.

If you think GN'R is about money, then I think you misunderstood something along the line.

The fans who saw the shows in 2007 didn't give a fuck if the shows weren't promoting anything.

What happened to just going to a show and enjoying it instead of trying to find reasons behind every single thing?

/jarmo


I could'nt agree more, I loved every show I was able to attend from 02-07. ?For me there is'nt a better produced live show in existance, new album or not. ?After returning from Japan I've seen several other major bands as they roll through L.A. While nearly all have been enjoyable each show I see only reaffirms how good GnR really are and how committed they all are in putting on the best concert possible. I think this holds true for the album as well, GnR is about quality, it will be released when it's ready in all aspects.

This is so unusual, when Slash say something and then he says another thing is a "fucking liar", but when Axl does "We don?t know what are happening in his life"...

These are two things very different. One thing is to say a lie about a fact. Other thing is speak about a project you have.  Although I have never like Slash, I have never said that he is a liar. Axl have never said a lie about Chinese Democracy, he simply has told the fans some plans about CD. He has never promised anything about CD.

Firstly, I just want to say that when it comes to supplying the truth about the current state of play within the GNR camp I can't imagine that anyone with an ounce of sanity remaining would choose to believe a two-bit rag like the Daily Star over Jarmo.

Secondly (and cover your eyes now Jarmo 'cos this is where it gets embarrassing!), Jarmo has provided a marvellous GNR site and board for those who genuinely care about the band and wish to offer their support in a positive, adult manner.  So, it pisses me off enormously when he comes under fire for refusing to be brow-breaten by those who feel that Axl, in particular, isn't playing by their rules, and all credit to him for continuing to debate the issue with posters that, personally, I'd have given up on long ago.

I don't post a great deal because quite frankly I get sick of going over the same old ground with people who believe that Axl owes them an album, tour, trip to the moon or whatever - you have your opinion and I have mine and I doubt that we're going to dissuade each other from what we believe.  Suffice it to say that when I buy a concert ticket, it's on the understanding that I'm going to see the band play live and nothing more.  The bonus being that when I saw Guns play in 2006, their performance was beyond my wildest expectations and left me with the most incredible set of memories and I wholeheartedly thank all the band members for that.

I believe in my heart that the album will be released only when Axl is satisfied with every aspect of it and I trust his judgment on the right time to make that decision.  Music may be a business but it's also an art form and it'd make me very sad if I thought Axl had been put under pressure to release something he wasn't entirely happy with just to line the pockets of the record company execs.

I buy concert tickets, merchandise and albums because I want to.  I get the products I've paid for and Axl 'owes' me nothing beyond this.  Artists are individuals and the way they communicate with their fans is down to their personal preference and I either accept this or waste a lot of my energy bemoaning this and wishing things were different.  Personally, I'd take Axl's honest, sincere and thought-provoking, if infrequent, press releases over other artists numerous blog entries that convey very little in the way of actual substance any day.  Axl speaks to his fans when he genuinely has something of interest to say and in a world of spin, hype and meaningless drivel put forth by the media today, I applaud him for this and think it speaks volumes for his integrity, the value he places on his art and the respect he has for us, his fans.

Integrity.



So it's lame to play songs they wanna play for people who love to hear those songs?

Ok....  ::)



/jarmo

I don't know about anyone else - but it's pretty clear the March 6th tentative date was just that: tentative. It wasn't a promise that it would be out on that day, and Axl said himself in the letter: "This is not a promise, a lie or a guarantee." Although I hoped for it to come out in March, I never really expected it to, and I didn't feel betrayed when nothing happened. I do think Axl could have taken time on March 6th (or before) to write something on his website to his fans on the personal side (instead of letting Del or whomever write an "update" on the album's recording without any word from the man himself), but that's neither here nor there.

They are GUNS N FUCKING ROSES playing GnR songs, like it or not.  If you dont, go away.

I couldn't let that one pass. It's very simple: no human being can work for more than 7 years on the same songs and get satisfied with every aspect of them, because (if you are not a buddhist monk or Dalai Lama) it comes to a point that you get tired and sick of them. Try listening the same album, at least a couple times in a week during 7 or more years (Axl probably had more than this), and finish this whole time loving it entirely and feeling that it's perfect and innovative. ?:)

Right on.

It was very clearly tentative, and JUST AS CLEARLY misinterpreted by many of the masses.

yeah, but why do you need new players for that? i'm the last one complaining about not having the original line up. i was always hoping to get something more modern with still the genuin axl/gnr spirit in it. and the new band members perfectly reflect the musical tastes i've developed over the years (nin, tool, replacements, primus etc). axl broke with slash and co to do something more progressive. some of those new guys come from those more advanced directions. but you need to put this stuff out. something that sounds cool in its time may be dated or insignificant when not released in the right context (i guess some classics in the history of rock wouldn't be classics if released today). i'm also afraid that the band members will get utterly frustrated if this no-release madness continues... it's not only about the fans, i fear...

isn't there a Chinese Democracy Frustration Thread somewhere on this forum where members can vent their...well, frustration?

"Every aspect" in my original comment referred to the whole album package and not simply the music.  However, taking your point about the music, the songs would have been evolving during the period of their creation.  Therefore, it's a little inconguous to compare an artist working on the evolution of a song to me, the listener, hearing the finished article multiple times.

As for "perfect and innovative" - these were not words that I used and this was very definitely not the meaning behind my comment about him being happy with the finished album.  I don't believe that Axl would ever consider a song to be 'perfect' but what I do believe he is striving for is to produce the best work that he is capable of at this time in his life.  When he feels that he has achieved this - and when the business side of things is tied up satisfactorily too - then I believe we'll get the album we've been waiting for.

Why is it such a big issue that Axl's touring and playing old songs without releasing an album?
Shure it's been a lot of years since the last studio album..

But...GNR are not the only band doing this!!
i'm a huge fan of Queen also, i.m.o. no Queen without Freddie but ok?... i'd like to compare the two (oranges and apples or not!)

It's been over twelve years since "Queen" released new material

Brian May an Roger Taylor still use the name Queen, hire a new singer, the original bass player John quit...

They toured, doing one-and-ahalf new songs, no studio album to back it up,(now in the making)
only "old" songs were played..
Re-releasing liveDVD's going back to the 80's....


Not that i mind....but just pointing out GNR are not THAT exceptional in their strategy/planning ,whatever you might call the delays...

It's an issue only on some fan boards and for critics. Not for the most of the fans that's been to the shows.

I used to complain all the time that Uncle Axl was taking too long to get CD out the door, but guess what happened ....


While I still like GNR, and I love the new line-up, I couldn't give a shit if CD comes out or not anymore. Tentative dates, false dates, talk of 80+ songs, delays, being told to wait for the second coming, being told it's right around the corner for years and years and years ... it just doesn't matter. I'm not saying Axl and his music don't matter, but to me, the album doesn't matter any more than the shows. Don't get me wrong, the shows are great, but you can only listen to same basic set list so many times. While it's a great experience for someone who hasn't seen GNR, or someone who is foolish enough to think Axl is a fat bald guy with a bunch of second rate hired hands backing him (those people are pretty stupid), you see it a couple of times, it's enough.

Other bands are putting out CDs, good and bad CDs. But they are putting out CDs.

The only regretible thing is how the fiasco with Chinese Democracy has hurt both Axl's image and the GNR name. He comes off a guy who's too scared to step up and hit the ball when his turn at bat comes up. The tentative date blew by with no real expectation that the album would be released. There hasn't been an official mention of it since. I don't care about the album the way I used to. I used to be able to picture myself holding it in my hands, having just bought it, unwrapping it, sticking it in my truck's CD player and cranking the volume as I take a long drive. Now, I just think that it has been going on this long ? telling fans that "it's coming 'soon'" for so many years, it's become a joke.
Less than a joke.
Chinese Democracy is a punch line for jokes about other bands, movie makers, lazy co-workers, people who drive too slow, drive-through's that can't get your order right, whatever.  Example ? "Man, that place is so slow, you'll get a copy of Chinese Democracy before you get your hamburger and fries!"

That's the thing that bugs me. Not the album, but what the lack of it is doing to the legacy of GNR. I'll always be a GNR fan. I have nothing but respect for Axl and his integrity to the music, his dedication for not releasing it until it's perfect. But if it can't be perfected after this long, some are logically going to think that it must be fundamentally flawed and can't be fixed. That's why it's become a joke. Not just because it hasn't come out, but because we've been teased since 1999 with the title and the words "coming soon."

My point is, I'll always love the music. I'll always see Axl as a singular talent. If the album comes out, I may or may not buy it the day its released. At this point, I may even borrow a copy before I decide to drop $15 on it. That's the sad thing. The anticipation and excitement is gone.

Playing songs that people wanna hear or promoting a 20 year old album are 2 complete different things. A lot of people also wanna hear Illusion songs like Civil War,Double talkin' jive etc. but they seem to refuse to play some of these.

who cares anyway..... ::) same shit, different day!!    THE BUZZ IS OVER!!!

Guys, I just do not know anymore.  I have been visiting this board now for perhaps ten or twelve years, far longer than most of you and i have seen many ups and downs in the bands career, if you could even call it that.  I went to one of the Australian shows a few months back and yes it was absolutely fantastic.  But i dont know anymore, will this album ever see the light of day?  Year in and year out we see no album, i will always love the old music and i am happy to have that much, i will always believe Axl Rose to be the greatest front man and live performer in Rock and Roll history.  However, will he put this crazy thing out???? I guess most of you will go on, year after year for who knows how long with out ever wavering in your faith in this man, but i have to admit, my faith is not what it once was.  And hey, I even have a huge GNR tatto on my back, ( the classic two six shooters and rose vine) I am a true fan, but fuck me Axl, I'd love to hear those tunes brother!!!

Where the fuck do you get this promoting thing?

Are you saying the Rolling Stones are promoting their albums from the 1960s when they play those songs?



/jarmo

^ The dude wants to throw a red herring in there to confuse, in a pathetic attemp to justify his whinning.

I thought you couldnt say the f$ck word on here, but its been thrown around every f$cking second lol,
only teasing,

Im glad though that axl is doing Dont Cry now,
just to spice up the live mix abit,

but You have to wonder,
If their is no news for cd in the next few weeks, then
it would be safe and suffice to say, that their will be no album this year...

So then mabye the earliest will be 2008 that we will see axls fine work..

Only a few more weeks to tell..

Remember he said
Promotion Promotion Promotion...

So If nothing by mid of october,say bye bye till the new year'

I'm a vehement supporter of Axl and the new guys, but I severely doubt the album will make it out this year.  Just doesn't seem like enough time to get that going.  I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it happening.

Like said : the excitement is gone and that is a pretty sad thing.
It's a shame to see that songs with that imense kind of potential ( the blues,maddy,twat,better etc.) are kept beeing unreleased.
No logical reason here.. At least not for the average fan.

Personally i won't spent my fucking money for merchandise or concerts anymore until we see a CD
I don't think it is correct to support this "cash grabbing mentality". .....
As long as Axl is getting away with it we might not see an album.
We have seen that in the past. Eveyr year is like a damn deja vu.
It's ridiculous

I think some should go out and find some other band to follow while waiting for Cd to be unleashed or leaked which ever comes first.

As far as axl promoting a 2 decade old album. well not really the man and the band are just playing the song that a large majority of the crowded they are playing to want to here.So, ain't nothing wrong with that.


 

indeed.


while there's no money in releasing records?

as far as know every year is different. So many fans finally got to see them live and had a great time thanks to the world tour.

Axl has enough cash to live comfortably till he's 327 years old. Get over yourself... he's touring for the fans and hopefully because he still enjoys performing.

Have you ever had a week off work and though... "I'm ready to go back."

How do you think Axl feels? He had the greatest job in the world... he wants his job back. WHY DO YOU AND OTHER PEOPLE CONTINUE TOO FOCUS SO MUCH ON THE MONEY?!!!

Here's what I think, you focus on it because it is the only part of your GN'R "Relationship" that you have any control over... well guess what, it isn't even part of the equasion right now to anyone but the Label. You are like the crazy bitch girlfriend that constantly moans about wanting to have a baby when the boyfriend is simply trying to get laid.

^

thats what i was getting at but my post was deleted? :no:


every year is like deja vu......

all i want is for the joke to stop and the respect and admiration to begin

Edit: my post used to make sense, but the post i was commenting was deleted as it didn't fit in round here  :crying:

Youv'e heard 'em, so where is the shame.


I don't blame you; I spend my fuck money on whores.


Looks like you know some of the same ladies I patronize.? :beer:

Hell yeah, those are our women. How dare he.



I take it your refering to that Inuit chick.





How is that for some fucked up logic ... it should play out the same.

Every downloading mofo owes GNR.  :hihi:

@davie
no joke.

like elmir said, if a poster wants to show how much they're frustrated, they should go to  Frustration Thread (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=48560.0).

ha ha, brilliant...

Everyone is missing the point.? What is really important is the rumor noted above.? I was told that someone in the band had 4 balls, 2 dicks and a shit load of pubic hair.? I heard it was Axl.? Now we have conflicting reports and I just can't believe anything now.? Please help.? I also liked that someone was called an assclown.

Hahaha

Hopefully the cd will be released soon because the natives are getting restless.

^^ The Inuits too!