Here Today... Gone To Hell!

On this recent tour is it sold out or is it barely selling tix ?

It's decent, They're not selling out all the shows but it's not like the venues are 1/4 full...

And by reading some other reviews that mentioned half full arenas, I'd say no shows have been sold out so far.




/jarmo

The concert industry is touch and go right now-7,000 isn't too bad actually-Kelly Clarkson, who has sold a ton of albums, cancelled a tour rercently-I know the project revolution tour (I'm not that familiar with the bands) did not come clost to selling out here, and Van Halen still isn't sold out here

 :rofl:

Suddenly 7000 isn't too bad......

Funny how different it sounded in 2006. "They're not selling out arenas".

They refers to another band who did sell out multiple dates on their last North American tour.





/jarmo

Jarmo, I was just making a general point about the music industry as a whole-I'm not getting into a GNR vs VR argument-I love both bands and want both to do well-I'm in Cleveland and it's been surprising to see some big bands not do well attendance wise here for various reasons-GNR did not sell out the Q here, but I didn't bring that up-I wish they would have-the Van Halen tour did not come close to selling out here in 2004 also-they maybe drew 10,000 here-these days 7,000 people is something many bands would wish for.

The one that has sold 90 million albums and is considered one of the greatests names in Rock n' Roll history?  I'm glad you think the two bands are on the same level.

Also, I thought it was all of "us" that brought "them" into these threads?

Haha!

I never said they were on the same level. Yet your kind keeps comparing them.

And when VR doesn't sell tickets, anything is "good enough".


Some of you even think VR are above that other band.





/jarmo

I don't have the 2006 figures, but for comparison in 2002 GNR drew 9,500-when GNR sells out 20,000 across the board for a NA tour, I will consider VR a failure

Is that Jarmo bringing GnR into this!? :D And after all he's lectured us VR fans about.. :rofl:

Not that it matters. Who gives a damn what Jarmo thinks? Seriously. You don't have to sell out arenas' to be a band who makes great music. The same goes for GnR.

Yep...Jarmo has a little bit of a problem. I love reading his posts though cause it does make me laugh. How can someone post so much about a band he hates, or mostly just hates because they were part of the blood and guts of the band that used to be GNR. You can't come to this board for content anymore, now it's just entertainment value.

Today Velvet Revolver's attendance is more than decent, in short this is a new band (with new songs) with dinosaurs of rock that current attendace doesn't care, they prefer sounds more modern and teenagers band (for exemple My Chemical Romacance or some crap like that), even so, Velvet Revolver is out there rockin' a lot...

Well, I agree with you, 7000 isnt too bad.

But we also should remember that VR is touring with Alice In Chains.

A comparison between the capacities of the arenas where VR used to play as the only act and the current hockey arenas in this tour with AIC should be considerated.

VR, playing alone, used to play in front of 1800/2000 people in the best cases... this is not something I am inventing, just search for information about the arena capacities in Wikipedia or something like that.

A very important portion of that 7000 tickets were bought by people only interested in Alice In Chains, do you agree with this?

I don't think so, I would bet that is a portion very small that only interested in Alice in Chains, I sure the most of attendance likes Velvet Revolver as Alice in Chains...

I don't think this is true at all. While Alice in Chains are a good band, they were not the reason that people came to the concerts, at least not the concert I went to. I was at the Montreal show and Alice in Chains played their set and everyone sat in their seats. No one stood up for them, they cheered at the end of the songs and sang with a few songs, but other than that people were subdued. When VR came on everyone was standing and cheering and singing. It was a totally different atmosphere.

Bet you thought you had it all worked out
Bet you thought you knew what I was about
Bet you thought youd solved all your problems
But you are the problem



Hehehe.  :hihi:

This is funny to me:

Album sales are important (2004), album sales mean nothing (2007)
They (GN'R) sold only a few tickets (2002/2006), VR's ticket sales weren't bad at all (2007)





Album and ticket sales are nice. It means that more people have the same taste as you in music.

But the way some of you used it against GN'R on a GN'R board was just stupid. Now it kinda came back to haunt you....


No matter how bad you want VR to be the biggest band in the world, they're not.




/jarmo

arent you the guy that liked VR untill you were told not to?

7000 for a band as shite as VR leads me to suspect the venue might be handing out drugs, or gold or something.....

Hahaha.

That must be one the funniest thing I've read.



Just like Snakepit, the music isn't good enough to stand the test of time.....

But what do you know about good music.




/jarmo

Yeah if that aint the pot calling the kettle black. So safe to say a VR fan didnt make this another VR vs. GnR thread. ::)

I know. You're only supposed to bring GN'R into this section when it's something bad about GN'R to make VR look good.

I know, I know.




/jarmo

The VR boys has been getting too mutch air now..A supergroup wich had their peak in 04-05..Ye,ye, jippiii..Why go out on a fucking 12000 cap arena tour when they got nothing ? I?m not surprised that 2007 has been a bad year for them.

Any true rock band these days, are doing good to bring in 5,000 let alone 12,000. I dont know what Axl's band did but if they drew anything around 9,000+  that is great especially for a rock band. The music industry is fucked.

It would not bother me at all though to see a band like VR or even GnR do small theaters if they had to, the vibe is so cool at a theater gig compared to an arena.

This fucking VR section should die ;) The band is going to anyway.

how is attendence?  well there are still tickets available for a show about 2 weeks away here in Las Vegas.   And shows here almost always sell out.

as things now stand I could say the same about the Guns n' Roses section...

on a Guns N' Roses board?  :-\

Well if it ain't the usual suspects.... ::)

yea, Rocker_GNR is always one of the first

I saw them at Jones Beach which i guess holds about 15000 and it was about 80% full

Personally, i like them better in 1500-200 seat clubs.....
they just seem more into when they play smaller venues vs ampi-theatre/arenas

Of course, when GnR played the Hammerstein, they seemed alot more into it there than at MSG 6 months later as well

^^totally agree, I wish all bands no matter how big they are would play these smaller venues. I really hate those big arena/festival shows...

Lol, I was thinking the same thing

Bitch and whine at us and look who is the first to bring up another band , it just comes to show the maturity here...

Yeah nice example of the pot calling the kettle black isn't it...

I've never said anything about album sales, I like the music and that's it. What is truly strange is how many people come to post here that worship GNR (and hence think they must hate VR to be true GNR fans) and trash VR. I hate Britney Spears, do I waste my time and go post shit about her on board that are related to her. NO!!! I guess the difference is I have a life. That's also why I keep my time posting on here to a minimum, cause it's really hard to have a discussion with some people here who have no concept over how to debate things. You come up with a logical argument and get a response like "yah, well VR suck, the album suck and they shouldn't play songs they've helped write". And you get the same bone-headed response no matter what you write : ok:

They did a lot better than some of you wanted them to or want to give them credit for.

That's why you get some pissed off by me mentioning GN'R. They outsold VR. It makes VR look bad.

None of you would be annoyed if it was the other way around.




What do you think of VR's ticket sales on this tour?

Was it what you expected?

Are you excited that they're playing for arenas that are 1/4 - 1/2 full?

Do you think they're an arena rock band like Foo Fighters, GN'R, Pearl Jam and others?

Why do you think nobody seems to give a fuck about their shows?

Did you attend any show(s)? If you didn't, why not?

Do you think the VIP package mess hurt ticket sales?





/jarmo

oh please... how easily you guys forget this is a GN'R board, not a VR board, so naturally not everyone is going to get all ga ga over VR.   however you'd think everyone here is a fan of GN'R.  Not the case.

Honestly I don't have to explain the meaning of the pot calling the kettle black do I?, My post doesn't have anything to do with the whole discussing vr on a gnr site debate...

GNR has had distinctive eras with different line ups with fans of each gravitating to the section of the forum that holds their interest.

Until this site becomes soley devoted to GNR in its current form with no outlet for fans of other eras and former members that will probably remain the case.

I think it's great all the bickering back and forth.  The fact that GNR fans can't get along with VR fans.  You can't seem to like BOTH bands, it's gotta be one or the other.  It's like we're all true rock and roll fans.  The members of GNR couldn't get along, as most rock bands go, so why should the fans be able to get along?  We're just going along with the script.  So commence the arguing at once.

i could care less how many tickets they sell. at longest i get to see my favorite bands perform, im fine with that  :)

And another topic is ruined in 4 posts.

What do those questions have anything to do with the fact that within like 5 posts you decided to bring GNR up? And then you say how VR fans argue we'll when you bring it up thats what happens.

I think people are more amused than annoyed...
anyways, how do you usually feel when a VR fan brings up GNR in here?
you claim that it's wrong and that GNR has nothing to do in this sub-forum, while at the same time you seem to love it, because it gives you an unbeatable formula for an argument...same as the other side has now. you slipped up, just admit it...(yeah right).

Fair enough. You're not interested in the topic.

Got it.  : ok:




I mentioned GN'R because of the double standards.

All of you are so annoyed because as I said, that mention makes VR's ticket sales look bad.

Not very popular among people like you....


None of you are posting about this when GN'R is mentioned by one of your own and it's used to make VR look good. Very amusing.





/jarmo

Poor record and ticket sales are definitely not a good sign.

I don't see much future for this band... just one more record.

they'll milk it for a few more years....200.000 units in this day and age, and 7.000 people in shows is definitely not a reason to pack it up....its not world shattering....but its income....they'll keep going for a while still....


now now....even though it wasn't commercially very successful...(and it had bad vocals)....Snakepit albums are good guitar albums....some great guitar work on them....i'd say even better than VR's guitar work.....

If you would have read my post, i actually did give them credit. :yes:

What is annoying is people like yourself always gotta make a piss ass statement about VR. Maybe if your boy Axl would get the guts and finally release his fucking album the critics would be silenced. At this point he cant do it, and is touring, actually doing exactly what Steven Adler is doing , but bigger platform and better musicians. Until he delivers an album , imo he has nothing on VR.  HE has the GnR name going for him, you tour that band under a different name, they would be doing what VR are or less. Probably less

never less....probably more....don't forget that Axl Rose sounds like no one else out there.....and his song writing is completely different from anyone else out there....

if he performed under a different name....he would do better than VR....not a load better.....but definitelly better....

at least he can do WTTJ and PC and SCOM in his set....which VR can't...(well, they can, but i shudder to think what that would sound like)...so that alone will pack arenas....

Not in the US...

not without the album....no....but it will elsewhere...South America....Asia....Africa.....for a while....then they will start asking questions about the album too....by that point US would have forgotten all about it....so he can start there again..... :hihi:

I've been thinking about the 2006 GNR tour recently. In retrospect, a lot of fans did get to see the band live, but in regards to promoting the album it was pointless. When the albums released they'll have to tour all those areas again to promote the album.

but in Velvet Revolver is Duff and Slash (emblem of Guns n' Roses), so you should have respect for them, or you are only a stupid boy who knew GNR six years ago and think that the current line up is on Guns n' Roses discography?....

I don't think anybody has disrespected their part in the GN'R legacy. That would be stupid.

But it doesn't mean a GN'R fan has to support Adler's Appetite, Velvet Revolver, Gilby Clarke or Izzy Stradlin just because they all were part of GN'R.



I never got into Gilby's music for example. No matter how hard I tried. Something about his albums.... I always liked Izzy's albums though.

I prefer the Stones to the Beatles. Maybe that explains it.

Does that make me less of a GN'R fan?






/jarmo

I prefer VR's version of Patience to the version by the new line-up (post 1996) version of GN'R.

Does that make me less of a GN'R fan?

It makes you a VR fan on a GN'R site?




/jarmo

Yes this is a gnr board, but we are in the VR-section. So what is the problem Jarmo. I'm a big fan of both bands. If you don't like VR, why are still replying on this section? I prefer the VR version two. Just because the solo slash plays is closest to the original version.

Nope, that's what you people intepret it as an that's why there are so many stupid posts on this site. It makes me a VR fan, but it doesn't perclude me from being a GN'R fan. Being a VR fan does not make you a GN'R hater. I know it's an incredibly hard concept to understand that you can like both bands, but the sooner some of you wrap your heads around it, the sooner we can have some meaningfull posts on this site (especially this section) again.

"people like you".....are you serious?
and yes, it is popular among "people like me", because the entertainment value at the VR section these days are tremendous.

Time out here. ?I love the "New Gn'R" moreso than the original (mainly because you can approach guys like Ron and Richard), but you can't knock VR's attendance by using GN'Rs now. ?At every show I've been at people have had no idea that Slash isn't in the band anymore. ?Hell, in the May 15th Hammerstein show (which as Axl said was the die hard GN'R fans) you can hear some guy yell out "Where's Slash" on the audio. ?Outside of the message boards, people in attendance are expecting the old band. ?I wish that weren't true, but it is. ?I just hope that after people leave a GN'R show they have a new love and respect for the current band and the new material.

I'm going to see VR today at the Gorge in Washington and expect it to be pretty damn full. ?My previous VR concerts have been packed, so I don't see why this would be any different. ?I never got why people can't like VR and GN'R at the same time. ?I admit Libertad didn't live up to my expectations, but I might say the same thing when I hear Chinese Democracy finally (although I love everything thus far). ?VR put out a good album that in my opinion is better than any of the other stuff out there. ?The reality is that rock n' roll isn't as big as it was 17 years ago. ?Shit like Rap and pop are the flavor of the day, so you can't expect the Illusion era attendance and attention.

I hope both bands are successful and wish them both the best. ?

Slash and Duff are no longer in Guns N Roses.  So maybe you should have some respect for the guys who are in the band now.  or are you only a stupid boy who comes to a GNR site to troll for people that haven't been in the band for 10 fucking years?

btw, i have never disrespected the legacy they left in the band.

You know, I could make this problem go away really easily if you want.

A couple of clicks and you can't say "this is the VR section" anymore.


Stop using that excuse.

This is a Guns N' Roses site for GN'R fans.

Not a VR site for VR fans who wish GN'R will fail.


I'm a GN'R fan posting on a GN'R site. What the fuck is weird about that?

 ::)


/jarmo

Why can't we ever have a civil, on-topic discussion without bringing GNR into the mix in this section? I honestly can't remember a single topic that hasn't gone horribly off-track and become a flame/bash fest.

it isn't as bad as that...true, general public may not know the new guys in the band...(it feels weird calling them new, considering some of them have been there for so long).....but most people are well aware that Slash is no longer there....i remember when the SA shows were announced, there were many radio promos to win some tickets to the shows, and throughout the whole time, before it got canceled, everyone seemed well informed as to what the general status of gnr was.....


hey man, if the material is not appealing, then its not appealing.....regardless of who plays it....

I asked some questions about the topic, but didn't get any replies.



You can fucking bash me all you want, I'm stating facts about the ticket sales and just because I love GN'R, those facts don't matter?

I made a simple remark about how some of you were bashing GN'R's ticket sales last year (a fact) while none of you say anything about VR's sales which are lower than GN'R''s.

Seems like VR gets way with anything.


Unfortunately for some of you, there are GN'R fans who aren't afraid to point out the facts when the rest of you are living in your pink VR bubble.




/jarmo

Who is this toward? If it's me, I wasn't trying to bash you. I was just pointing out that every thread here recently turns into a shit storm. No remarks towards anyone in particular.

I wasn't one of those people that bashed GnR ticket sales last year ?and yet I still have to hear you immaturely attack VR. ?I am not bashing you for your facts, I am going to bash you for being a hypocritical ass that I believe loves to start flame wars here in the VR section. Do you want to help put an end to the belief that one can only solely be a GnR Fan or a VR fan? or do you advocate this seperation and constant bickering between the two?

You run this place, and therefore set a big example, if your own insecurities about the current line up of GnR prevent you from ever helping this problem, I really think you should consider removing the VR section. ?Right now it looks like this forum promotes segregating the fans into two seperate camps. ....but maybe that is what you want

I fully expect the VR section on this board to be gone. It's great that you can supposedly say whatever you want as long as it doesn't class with the dictatorship-like views of the webmaster of this site. It will be a shame to see this section go for those people that were fans of both bands, but then again this section has gone way downhill since someone decided he would hate VR anyways.

I agree this section should be removed.  I suggested this awhile ago when Jarmo couldn't get along with the people that post in the VR section of his GNR board!

I would love to see it stay, there should be a VR section on a GNR board, just like there should be a VR section in an STP board and a GNR and STP section in a VR board. The difference is a few people wreck the VR section on this board, regardless of the half-baked justifications they have.

No there shouldn't. It's 2 separate bands, one has nothing to do with the other.

Except that a large portion of the band is responsible for all of us knowing how the fuck GNR is, and the same with Scott and STP. You should remember and respect the history behind it.

You do know Slash, Duff, and Matt were all in GnR right?

they aren't now

I don't get along with all the people posting in the GN'R section either.

Doesn't mean I'm gonna remove it from the board.



Let's see if any VR fans want to talk about the ticket sales soon or if they'd rather focus on something else (which I can understand considering the facts)....





/jarmo

ummm duh? He said they have nothing to do with eachother, as there is no connection between the two bands, I was showing him the relation between the two groups and why most boards do choose to have sections for the other bands.

We where all talking about the sales , but when you BRING UP the other band it tends to getting annoying.  OH yea we dont want to talk about it because they cant pack arenas BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY only bands that do are good...

Slash and Duff played a very instrumentally part in making the songs that are still played today. ( Even though some people on this board think Axl was the only mastermind , even coming up with the guitar parts on piano ). Zig Zag doesn't get it , the point is this guy says psh VR has NOTHING to do with GNR. Yea right , sorry but if you think that you're living a lie. 3/4 of the music played at GNR concerts was created with the input of these guys , sure they may play it but they CREATED it.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth! What I said was they are 2 separate bands. Is anyone in GNR in VR or vice versa? Thought not, therefore there should not be a VR section on a GNR board plain and simple.

Get rid of the VR section...just do it.  Unless you keep it around just to spew out your venom and hatred.  Then by all means keep it.  After all it is your site.

NO you said they have NOTHING to do with each other , nothing meaning there is no in any way shape or form relation between the 2 bands. Saying no one in GNR is in VR is very different from saying GNR has NOTHING to do with VR.

Well let's talk about ticket sales...

Questions?...

HAHA, idle threats. ?Jarmo, you know damn well that you don't have the guts (or possibly permission) to put your money where your mouth is and delete the VR section. ?Why? ?Because this section has a purpose...and it's not simply here b/c Jarmo's altruistic generosity to all fans of GnR members past and present. ?

Since 2004, Velvet Revolver has inadvertently played a vital role in the "bait and switch" marketing of Guns n' Roses to their fanbase. ?By creating and maintaining an intense rivalry between the two bands, you link everything one does to the other. ?The result? ?When Velvet Revolver releases an album, GnR receives a large portion of publicity as well. ?Sure, GnR would gain pub from VR naturally due to the involvement of former members, but in the context of this website, it provides a section for disgruntled GnR fans to vent negativity and build up GnR's accomplishments at the expense of VR. ?

So, in essence the conversation goes like so, "GnR hasn't released an album in over a decade...shhhh...look how shitty Libertad is," or "VR's ticket sales are slow...hey, GnR's concerts sold as well or better." ?Textbook case of minimizing VR's accomplishments to minimize GnR's faults. ?Just take a look at any thread in this section. ?Every promising topic is quickly poisoned by the usual suspects, and blame is spun toward VR fans (many who are also GnR fans, but become collateral damage of the marketing machine). ?Doesn't work the same way in the GnR section, where malcontents are quickly silenced (cue Jarmo crying about "this is a GnR board," like he's reading from a worn out script). ?So what impression does the casual fan perusing this site leave with? ?Things are sunny in the GnR camp, while VR rages with turmoil.

Gotta give credit where it's due. ?It's a brilliant last ditch effort to defend a band that has long been beyond defense. ?So, Jarmo, kudos to you if you prove me wrong and actually delete the VR section, but if you just can't do it, let me make a suggestion. ?Rename this section "Damage Control."

spot on, oldleadbelly, spot on.

Well fucking do it , Sir. Quit dicking around and fucking do it.

I think we all should leave  the excuse.making for Axl ,dude has gotten pretty good at it.

I agree, there.  Just do it.  Get rid of it.    No, on second thought...don't.....it continues to make for interesting reading and posts!   That's what it's all about, anymore....VR vs GNR, Scott vs Axl.  Although, you know.... I live in a pink bubble.   

I don't give a flying fuck about ticket sales and attendance, for either band.  Who cares?         

I'd hate to see this section go.

It has provided me with many a laugh on the days I needed it most.

so...back on topic....show of hands....who thinks that the "dropped" VR attendance at shows is the result of a "below par" album....or just a general state of the music industry overall in 2007?

i'm not sure.  the fact that they are touring w/AIC makes me think it could be the state of the industry.   VR isn't a huge name(although the guys in the band are huge names) but AIC definitely is.   Like I said, the show here in Vegas still has plenty (good) seats available and its 2 weeks away.   On the other hand, the Smashing Pumpkins show next week is sold out, but they are playing a much smaller venue.   Perhaps VR should be playing something smaller.   They are playing the Mandalay Bay Events Center (cap. 12,000), when they should be playing in a place like the Joint or the House of Blues.   

that's also in the US....which is a terribly tricky market to satisfy.....how did they do worldwide?
other than Europe, which other "out of reach" places did they play at this year, if any?

anyone knows the turnout and reception they received there?

yea i dont get why US crowds are so hard to please.   Whatever happened to going for the sake of a good rock n roll show.   I'm prolly gonna go see VR, jus as I went to see GNR many times last year.   I'm not a huge fan of their music by any means, but it'll be cool to see Slash and Duff tear it up.   

What a bunch of bullshit from somebody who doesn't have a fucking clue.

Never assume I don't have "the guts".





Poor album, poor marketing, the hype is gone.

There's not enough people who wants to hear She Builds Quick Machines in the markets to fill the arenas to half full.




/jarmo

Just get rid of this fucking section ...

I'm sure if the VR section was deleted someone would make a VR thread in the Bad Obsession section...

Will most of that may be true. The poor album thing is only an opinion.

The music market isn't very rock friendly it hasn't been for a good while now.

Sure some rock acts can sell tickets to shows . The Stones, VH ...But those are band with a large vast history. 

yeah, the album is very good in my opinion. I don't want to read snarky posts by people who plaster their own opinion as the general opinion of the world, it's just...what's the word....stupid!

they might sell less tickets than expected at some shows, that's just normal. but it generally don't seem to me like they lack attendance.

Because your opinion differs from the rest of the world, you come to a GN'R board and expect GN'R fans to have the same opinion about VR as you?

Weird logic.


The names Scott Weiland or Slash doesn't make enough people wanna pay for tickets to fill half full arenas.

Maybe you wish that I wouldn't post that fact.




Which shows sold out then?

Playing venues with attendances ranging from 1/4 full to half full, I'd say something is lacking.

Maybe it'd be viewed differently if at least some of them were sold out. But I haven't heard of any sold out shows on this tour. Have you?



/jarmo

Because your opinion differs from the rest of the world, you come to a GN'R board and expect GN'R fans to have the same opinion about VR as you?

Weird logic.

So you speak for the rest of the world....I never got that memo.

Well maybe you have to do that. Just like i already said. I like both bands. If Guns n' roses is comming to Holland i'm going to see them. If VR are in Holland i'm going to see them two. I don't think there are a lot of VR fans that wish guns to fail. I think there are more people on this board who wish that VR fails... For me it's perfect. Now I have 2 bands that are on the road who make very cool music (at least that is my opnion).

//Anton

Good for you.  : ok:

For some of us, the material these guys have done since leaving GN'R doesn't excite us in the same way GN'R does.



It was a generalization. You can find people who love every album ever released if you look hard enough.



It's like seeing Buckethead fans coming here and expecting everybody on this board to love his solo albums because he created music with GN'R in the past.


Do you wanna keep dragging this off topic? I thought you guys were very upset.



/jarmo

upset about what??? Vr not selling out shows?

The GN'R mentions and this going off topic.

Judging by all the whining, you're all very interested in keeping this on topic.


So go for it!  : ok:



/jarmo

On topic...

The attendance figures don't surprise me at all, this bill would have been much better served
by playing in 2000+ theatres. 

US arenas just aren't the right fit unless it's an Aerosmith type or some sort of reunion like VH.

The album is not necessarily poor, there is some good work on there, and it belongs as the part of any decent rock collection.....but it is at times very "boring" and i mean this in the nicest way possible.....it just isn't much of a departure from Contraband, which i think is problem nr.1....they didn't variate enough from the initial formula....

marketing bad?
from what i have seen, they have been all over the radio and tv, doing interviews, performances on Letterman, press interviews, all sorts of stuff....i'd say their PR machine is working overtime.....


as sad as this makes me.....i have to semi-agree.....although i'd pay a good price to hear Slash's guitar on Mr. Brownstone.....

I had made the promise not to come to this VR section again (now I go to another forum to discuss that band... a place where I can talk about VR related new in a peacefull and distressed way). I?d only go to this board to check on Gn?R news (which everyone knows is the best for that purpose). But watching this thread made me feel quite angry and upset (my fault cos I didn?t have to come here) as I always were whenever I posted in here.

I read this thread from page 1. It started about VR?s attendance. A question about ("On this recent tour is it sold out or is it barely selling tix ?"). Someone answered it ("The concert industry is touch and go right now-7,000 isn't too bad actually-Kelly Clarkson, who has sold a ton of albums, cancelled a tour rercently-I know the project revolution tour (I'm not that familiar with the bands) did not come clost to selling out here, and Van Halen still isn't sold out here").

And here?s what happens next: Jarmo gets in action puting Gn?R into the topic out of nothing ("Suddenly 7000 isn't too bad......Funny how different it sounded in 2006. "They're not selling out arenas".They refers to another band who did sell out multiple dates on their last North American tour.")

And now what is he saying?
So... something?s quite wrong here. Jarmo was the one talking about Gn?R in this thread ruining it. But now he?s saying its the others in this topic that get off-topic and that mention Gn?R... hummmm. ok!

Now I ask... how come the VR section is still up? It is now a general knowing that you hate VR.

It?s quite interesting too seeing that you used to post on velvetrevolver.com (with 889 posts... more than I have here) from 2003 to 2006.
Posts regarding every band member (including Matt Sorum: http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=ca6d816bbcb140669e4792c95d682666&topic=20530.msg149494#msg149494~), many providing articles about the band (http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8926.msg192142#msg192142, http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=19761.msg93144#msg93144) tour dates (http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=9750.msg252085#msg252085)

Can u imagine that now?

Oh... and apparently he saw VR 5 times (http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6979.msg230586#msg230586, http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7794.msg227811#msg227811) probably more than many of us, supporters of VR.

So, apparently he was a fan like us, he was all interested in the band (like we are now), wanting to know the news, sharing with others, going to the gigs, posting tour dates etc, etc.

Now everything has changed. He doesn?t like the band, he doesn?t like people who support it, he ruins the VR threads in this section. I wonder... what happened Jarmo? What made you not support the band anymore? Cos I mean... the guys are the same from Contraband, the album is not that different soud-wise to Contraband... What is different? I understand you may not feel interested in the band anymore... it happens all the time, all around the world. That is normal. But to start hating it? That?s kinda weird. You could just not give a fuck about the band anymore... but instead, you give it attention by coming to every fucking thread VR-related to ruin every discussion. Again... something?s wrong here- you could simply ignore the band as you don?t like it anymore or you just don?t feel the "hype" anymore as you say. But from your posts these days... there?s definately some hate in there. I wonder why...

I know you?ll give me a "whatever Ines" kind of answer, but I just wanted people to know who you really are (or were). Of course you can delete my post too... that?s up to you. 

Now... back to the topic... Yes... VR are not having a good American Tour... at least comparing to the one they did for Contraband (see? I didn?t bring GnR last american tour to compare... there?s no need for that). That might have to do with album sales, or the general reception of the album (although I prefer it to Contraband)... who knows. But one thing I know for sure... that won?t make me like less the band, or not make me see them when they come to my country.

Guns N' Roses happened! Didn't I tell you this before?

I seem to be repeating the same thing over and over for you VR lovers. I tried to enjoy the band, the shows I saw were entertaining (I also had fun seeing Adler's Appetite) etc etc. Then I woke up!

I thought It's Five O'Clock Somewhere was great! When it came out in 1995..... Then a few months later I didn't think so. I used to listen to Believe In Me a lot in 1993 too... Then I just stopped and when I went back, I noticed the quality wasn't what I first thought.



I used to post on that VR forum. I helped create it as a favor to a "friend". Somebody who used to post here years ago.

I also used to post VR news on this site as well. Go ahead and quote each of the VR news stories I posted.  :-*



Pearl Jam?


Arenas work for bands who know how to work an arena crowd and who have the fanbase.

Not many rock bands do.





/jarmo

Does PJ consistently sell out arenas in the US?  I've never followed them so I really have no idea.
With 17 years of legacy I'd think they'd have a shot at it.


Not necessarily.

There's plenty of bands with huge fanbases with plenty of experience in working arena crowds over the careers that don't pack them in like they used to here in the states.

There was another band that toured last year in NA and Jarmos right, they sold out multiple shows and played others in half filled arenas .... wait didn't most of those arenas seat around 18-20 thousand, so half filled was more like 9-10 thousand.... but i guess 7000 isnt too bad either.

Humm... ok. You lost interest. And as I said... that?s normal. But what you feel for VR isn?t indiference... and I would understand that. You hate the band. And that is shown by every post you make in this section.
Another thing I can?t understand, which made me join another forum, is why you can?t stand people who (like you did once) like VR and come to this section to discuss the band. I thought that was the point of this section... discussing VR by people who like VR and Gn?R (which I think is not a crime btw). But apparently it ain?t. Answer me this: why does the VR sections exists in this board right now and what?s its purpose?

to piss you off

Jarmo, I agree with Ines on this one. You have been entering a lot of threads in this section and starting controversy with a couple people in each thread. It's your forum, you have a right to do so.

I don't see a lot of discussion regard GNR vs VR in this section anymore, unless you bring it up, then someone takes offence to it, and it starts and argument. If you have no interest in VR anymore, you could do as Ines said, and just no bother to respond to the threads. Or, since its up to you, if VR annoys you so much, to the point that you even hate them, just get rid of this section all together, and just have it in with Ex gunners. I'm sure that would cause a lot of the people you see as 'GNR haters' to leave and seek a VR only forum.

and you don't throw trash in the food pantry you through it the garbage can, so you keep the GNR stuff in the pantry and the VR stuff in the other place, same house though

When the VR guys start acting differently, maybe then things will change.

As long as they keep this charade going, some of us will comment.

As long as they keep mentioning GN'R, GN'R fans will notice all the bullshit.




A band like Marilyn Manson?

I think part of it has to do with the fact that the music scene has changed a bit since they started. As well as their music.


VR didn't even seem like an arena band in the days of the multi-million selling Contraband.





/jarmo

 ??? Is that the answer for my question? Or you?re not going to answer?

I've answered it time after time.

There are GN'R fans who like VR.

This isn't the right site for VR fans who want to come here to stir up shit.




/jarmo

Which VR fans hate GNR?  I thought most here were GNR fans first, like me, and are now also VR fans...  hmmm

Lol oh well...  :-\ It?s impossible isnt?t it? "There are GnR fans who like VR" yup... I?m one of them. However... I don?t feel confortable anymore in this section and I?m pretty sure many of others ain?t aswell. Even a GnR fan gets tired of the "GnR vs VR threads" as you turned this one. And I like how you blame the "VR fans" of causing this. Ok... ::) Although you claim this is for GnR fans who like VR it ain?t... at all. It is a place to bash VR... and their fans. For whatever reason... which you can?t explain to me.

dude u guys can keep bagging on jarmo for bringing  up GnR in this thread.

that doesnt' change the fact that every other time its been brought up in this section, its because someone didn't like something that was said about VR so they retaliate with a snide remark about GnR.    <-- more often then not thats how it goes.  its the only way some ppl know how to defend VR.

I think it's the other way around, most VR fans don't diss GNR until some psycho crazy GNR fan disses VR. For some reason they think they have to worship Axl and try and diminish VR. Anyways regardless, VR DOES have a good album out now and even though the attendence may not be as great as what it should be, they are putting on kickass shows. I can't wait to get one of the new concerts from the last leg on DVD.

Il will tell you why he despises the band now , he is part of the "Big Machine" and he now is one of the yes men to good old Axl. That's why.

Manson, NIN, Nugent, Skynyrd, The Cure, Oasis, etc. ?Many bands from different genres with huge fanbases and a back catalog to support it

The list is endless.


I think that's a very valid point, no argument here.


No they didn't. which for me was a good thing. ?

Case in point, I'm a fan of the band and like both their records but have absolutely no desire to see this tour solely based on it being taken to the public via arenas.

If this bill was packaged in theatres I'd be all over it, simple as that.

no they dont have a good album.. it sounds like nickelback with 2 bluesy solos
and no they dont have a good show.. it is boring as hell..

well, someone says something you dont like about VR so the only way you can defend them is to say something bad about GnR.   You guys can't do it any other way.

agreed, Libertad is not a good album.  Its very average.    sorry if the truth hurts.   However, this wont stop me from going to see them.   I agree with Falcon tho a theatre or club show would not only suit them much better, they would probalby be better shows.

 :hihi: Ignorance is bliss

You would know now wouldn't you?  ;)

Stop the insults back and forth.

Now.

It can't be because the music isn't good enough. Noooooo...... That's impossible. Everybody loves bland boring music with shitty lyrics and a singer with a boring voice.

As long as it's dangerous rock n' roll!  :drool:


Several GN'R fans share my opinion on VR. How are you gonna explain that?  ::)

"Big Machine"..... Fucking conspiracy theorists....




Oasis never made it big in America did they?

A band like the Dave Matthews band (which only is big over there it seems) still sell out arenas....



I think one key is the audiences the bands are aimed at.

VR is aimed at teenagers. And people who were into the previous bands.


I remember Duff even talking about how he went to some rock show with his nanny or something and how sad it was. There was no real rock bands (except them) around....

Seems like that market is more into My Chemical Romance than VR.





/jarmo

Yay! VR bashing again! :D I thought it was taking too long. It?s kinda funny cos supposedly, according to the GnR fans this thread should be full of VR fans bashing Gn?R which in 7 pages did not occur. But alright...  ::)  That?s what the purpose of this section is right? Trashing the band... well at least you guys have some fun doing it. Well done.  :yes:

My opinions

The album is good.

They should be doing smaller venues.

They should be promoting better.

They are great live shows.

I am going to see them Oct. 2nd.

The Last Fight is decent enough to be on radio, don't know why no stations play it, but still play that bs "rock star" song by Nickelback.

Jim Bob, even you think its worth seeing VR for Slash and Duff alone.  I think its cool as hell you are going to the show, even though you hate a lot of what they do.

Years from now we will apprectiate what VR is doing now.  I promise.  They are doing what they believe in, and that is cool as hell.  When they are broken up and in their 50's, you will sit around and think, hmmm, I should have checked them out when they were still touring and putting good albums out.

so you must blissed...

if im talking it is cuz i know..
saw VR and was boring
heard libertad a lot, trying to like it.. and it is simply a bad album
i like contrabad.. it was ok, a fun album, not a masterpiece.. but def fun
libertad is extremely boring and tiring, apart from gravedancer i didnt find anything good there

i am prolly going, its not definite yet.   tix are still available and i may have nothing else to do.   I dont hate what they do, I'm just not a fan of most of their music.   I like STP, and I like their old work in Guns, so I'm a fan of the guys in the band just not them as a collective.

As I said here:

You really need to get a clue.

The guy was posting total bullshit lies about me and you attack me.


That makes sense.

How about I make shit about you?





/jarmo

Never to the extent they did in Europe of course, pretty big success early in the Wonderwall/Champagne Supernova era.

No real staying power though.


Mathews is a different breed of cat, a very "Greatful Dead" like following over here. ?I'm not sure if I'd even classify them as a rock band at this point.


I think that's a fair characterization for the most part. ?I'd broaden it a bit to "rawk" fans in general.

Not trying to add fuel to any ongoing fire here, but aren't the numbers we're seeing from this VR arena tour fairly similar to that of GNR's here in '06? ?

Arena rock just isn't good business over here, for whatever reasons.

Falcon, yes, they are very similar and GNR had a huuuuge name to tour behind.  I don't know what America's problem is other than the Internet and Youtube over exposing everything.

I haven't seen any details about VR selling out any shows on this leg while GN'R did sell out several shows.

GN'R playing a sold out show in Quebec and VR playing for like 3-4000 in Montreal.

Toronto, GN'R played Air Canada Center and VR played some smaller place.



Not to mention the shows in Europe which were even more successful in that regard.




/jarmo

Me either on the VR end.

As for GNR, would it be a fair assumption that most of the shows done in the US in '06 were to less than capacity audiences?

If that was indeed the case, would it be fair to say that particular GNR tour wasn't a success?

Not looking to argue, just feedback and educated opinion.


No clue about the state of arena rock for me in Canada, maybe one of our Canadian board members could shed some light.

VR played the Air Canada Center...it's now called the Molson Center...check the facts Jarmo. Then again, I would not expect you to be too accurate given your history of posts in this section.

Considering they weren't on the radio or TV with a new song out, I'd say it was a success.

Not all shows sold out, but you seem to forget how many shows they actually played.

They did four arena shows in Florida alone. I think most bands play maybe two arena shows there.


As you mentioned, not many bands can play arenas these days.

GN'R can, all over the world.



From their official web site:

08.12.07     toronto     ON    CA    Molson Amphitheatre

A simple Google search resulted with the following URL: http://www.hob.com/venues/concerts/molsonamp/


The Air Canada Centre still seems to be there: http://www.theaircanadacentre.com/

It's still the home of the Maple Leafs.....


I don't expect to see an apology from you considering your attacks against me.....



/jarmo

It's a lot different up here from what I can see. Most rock shows up here sell out if the bands are good. I know at least pretty much every show GNR has ever done up here have been either sold out or pretty close to being sold out. I think it probably has to do with the fact that quite a few bands only play the major cities like Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton/Calgary etc so people are probably more willing to travel to see there favorite bands play. A few years ago the Stones played in Moncton New Brunswick and people traveled from all over the country (and the north eastern US) just to see the show. So I guess were just starved for great live shows up here.  :-\

Actually Jarmo, I guess you are right. At least I can admit when I am wrong. They are different venues. It appears that most concerts occur now at the Molson Amphitheater. Aerosmith will be playing there soon. They are however similar sized venues once you incorporate the stage in the hockey and basketball arena.

Axtually no, most concerts are still at the ACC. Van Halen are playing 2 shows there next month, one of which is already sold out.

GnR played in Winnipeg last year and it wasn't a sell out.  I do not know about the rest of Canada though...not even going to try and guess.

I have no clue about any VR shows up here...

Pearl Jam played in Thunder Bay (my home town) last year as well, and didn't even come close to selling out the 4,000 seat arena in town.  I think they were in the 2,500 area.  We couldn't sell out Pearl Jam, but we jammed in over 4,000 for the Tragically Hip in February.  Our Lady Peace sells out every time they come here.  And Sum 41 and Finger 11 just sold out the arena for a show next month.  But Pearl Jam...not even close. 

Fair enough.


No idea here how many shows they played, I'm guessing about as extensive as the current VR tour.

I maybe wrong, I haven't really done the math.

Is the average attendance on this VR tour in the ballpark in comparison to GNR's US tour of '06? ?

Others act playing there within the next four months or so are Rush, Beastie Boys,  Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band, The Police and  Ozzy Osbourne.






I think VR are out longer. It seems like their tour is almost three months long where as GN'R was out for two months.






As I said, I haven't heard about any sold out shows on the VR tour.

Reviews I've seen have mentioned half full venues.






/jarmo

And they very well might not sell out any, time will tell.

I checked the concert chronology on this site (great feature by the way), it looks like GNR only sold out
2 arena shows in the ((NYC and LA) on the '06 US part of the tour.?

Is this correct?


Didn't we have quite a few of the same type of reviews from the GNR US tour of '06?

If so, what deems one a success and the other a falure?

I guess you can break it down into smaller markets to show that VR's tour is successful.

Since GN'R sold out shows in Canada, just focus on the USA....


How about this: A tour behind an album, that was pushed back to make it go to #1, with a big "reunited" 90s name opening act and lots of publicity (interviews, TV, radio apperances) sells less than one with almost no promotion?





/jarmo

Get this the band that tours with no promotion has the name GUNS N ROSES , I'll bet you is Axl quit and Slash got the GNR name they'd sell out everywhere just for the fact of the brand name. I have some guitars that are no name branded , they don't sell millions of copies but that doesn't make them bad , Gibson guitars might be just as good or worse but they sell millions because its GIBSON.

Wasn't it established earlier in this thread that even the bands with names doesn't sell out shows?




/jarmo

I never said VR's tour was successful, just comparing apples to apples and defining criteria for success or failure for each in the US concert going marketplace


I deferred to our Canadian bretheren for that info, I have no idea how VR did in Canada


In todays concert going marketplace in the US, what's more viable:

A band as you described above or a band with a 20+ year legacy and a back catalog second to few? ?

From an average numbers per show standpoint (including all dates from GNR's 06 North American Tour)
are the numbers VR's drawing currently in the same ballpark as what GNR did?

GNR's success is much more comparable to that of Aerosmith, VH, The Eagles, than to that of NIN, Manson, Nugent etc.  I doubt the last 3 combined have sold the amount of records GNR has in North America.

Wouldn't you agree?

Each of the former either have (or will in VH's case) sell out a majority of the North American arena dates.

I was at the Thunder Bay show and that arena was pretty damn full, it was close to sold out if not sold out IMO. Remember all the seats behind the stage were full when Eddie went into the stands and sang Last Kiss.

As for GNR-VR attendance comparsions, I saw GNR at the Target Center in Mpls last December and there were 10,000 there while I saw VR two weeks ago at the Xcel Center in St Paul, 15 minutes from the Target Center, there was 6,000 there. The attendance for VR isn't the problem if you ask me, the crowd for VR looked extremely bored and lost when they played anything other than GNR-STP tunes or Slither and Fall To Pieces, people just don't know their songs. Plus Alice IN chains got a way better reception and alot of people left when they were done, that is what VR should be worried about, the people who do attend are more interested in the opening band and only hearing GNR-STP tunes.

Now you're using a long history as a reason they sell more tickets.

Earlier you said it was no guarantee to sell a lot of tickets since bands like Marilyn Manson or The Cure don't sell out arenas.


I don't have the average numbers. But it seems that one sold out GN'R show equals two or three VR shows.





/jarmo

Jarmo, didn't GN'R sell out a BUNCH of arenas on the 2006 NA Tour?  I remember checking the Poll Star rankings every week Chief put them up, and if the dates weren't sold out, they were pretty damn close.

I know all of them weren't packed shows, there were some small market shows that didn't sell well, but ticket sales were very healthy for the most part.

I think the most damning thing regarding VR's attendance woes is the fact that they played a 1,000 seat venue in Los Angeles, their hometown!  They played the Pond on the Contraband tour (arena) and now they are reduced to playing clubs.  That left me scratching my head, and then the album dropped with almost little to no fanfare.

in the end we all know that the only "cool" thing about a VR show are the covers..
and im not the only one saying it.. most of professional reviews say it
is very easy to understand whty they are not selling tickets..

Of the shows I went to, Toronto and Ottawa weren't sold out as far as I know.

But they were close.




Those are the most well received songs in their set.

It's no wonder they added another GN'R song to their set.....




/jarmo

in the end we all know that the only "cool" thing about a VR show are the STONE TEMPLE PILOTS covers..

I've always loved "Interstate Love Song"

What?!! You don't like Guns N' Roses songs?
Tsk,Tsk.

No I didn't.

I asked you which one you thought was more viable in the US concert going marketplace.


Yes, and the Aerosmith, VH and Eagles comment was to show bands that are much more in "GNR type of success" realm that do and will.

As historical success goes, wouldn't you agree GNR are in the same category as the bands mentioned above and light years ahead of Manson, NIN, The Cure?



From most accounts it seems as though this VR tour is playing to around the same average numbers GNR did in '06, fair to say?

If that's the case give or take a few, why is one successful and the other not?

with Weiland on vocals?

no, thanks.

agreed.  he just doesn't have the pipes for the material.   he should sing stuff like Interstate Love Song.

Point noted.

From all the reviews I've read and judging from the show I saw, VR is selling a few thousand less than Axl did on average per show. Taking into account that GNR tix were more expensive and that VR just released an album, selling a couple thousand less is a pretty bad failure IMO.

and VR is touring with Alice in fucking Chains to boot.

GNR is touring with the GNR name, that is a huge fucking difference. They're getting fans from their old material. They haven't released anything to merit their own fan base. This is a stupid argument. There is a huge difference in fanbase for a band that has been around since 1985 to one that has been around since 2003. Lets get back to VR.

Lol Fair enough. This thread has turned into an arena fight anyway... No... actually it has turned into a "who sells more? GnR or VR?" thread which seems just like what you wanted since your first posts in here.

Concerned to that... I?m not surprised to see that GnR sold more seats that VR this year. GnR will always be one of the greatest rock n roll bands ever... they?re huge all around the world. And although I know many people go see their shows thinking Slash will be there, Axl+GnR name+GnR hits= many tickets sold. What?s the surprise in there? Big deal...

VR are more of a Audioslave type of band... although they?re very successful they will never reach the same success as their previous bands. That?s quite easy to see.

Anyway... I?m done with this "topic"... quite boring anyway... ::)

Some of you guys are scary. I mean your obsessions seem to be on the same level as Mark Chapman (who murdered John Lennon) and Nathan Gale (who murdered Dimebag).

Didn't I already answer this?





/jarmo

I enjoy every song in the Velvet Revolver's show, obviously I enjoy more the Guns n' Roses covers due to I am a GN'R fan and to see Slash and Duff performing GNR songs is unpayable, but I really like and enjoy every songs from Contraband and Libertad too and I am not the only one say it...

Perhaps, the VR covers are the most attractive in the shows, but is the same case in New Guns n' Roses, its sold out is due to the classics songs, It is evident the most of people don't know or cares the new leaks, they only want to hear November Rain, Scom, Paradise city, etc...

In short it is same thing in both bands, just change the name of the band, but I enjoy theirs new songs (The Blues, Madagascar/ Slither, Fall to pieces) and the classics songs that I love (Nightrain, November Rain/ Patience, Mr, Brownstone, etc...)

The 2006 or 2002 GNR tours were not successful unless it was a huge market like LA, Chicago, or NYC.  In Detroit, it is a fact, VR got a larger crowd in 2004 than GNR did in 2002. 

Guns N Roses is one of the Biggest Rock Bands EVER from the US!  Yet, Poison avereged more ticket sales than the 2006 tour at smaller markets.  That is amazing Poison tours better than GNR, don't you think?  This is just a bad couple of years for rock shows. 

You're very confused.

It doesn't matter how Guns N' Roses sell out: they're selling out arenas with their own songs.

You need to understand for once in your life that ''November Rain'', ''Welcome To The Jungle'', ''The Blues'' and ''Better'' are ALL OF THEM Guns N' Roses song. You can whin and cry all you want, but that's how things are and your resentment wont change a thing.

And how can you say ''it's evident most of the people dont care about the new songs'' if you've never went to a Guns N' Roses concert? How do you know what people wants? Do you know what I want?

The only purpose of your post was suggesting that this band is not Guns N' Roses, and that this band sells out just because they ''play GNR covers'', am I right?

Newsflash for you: this is not the proper place for you. Go to the fucking Velvet Revolver forum and there you'll have a nice play to say ''New GNR''. Hurry up... join the VR board while there's still a contract between VR and RCA.

And VR in 2004 compared to 2007?



/jarmo

Jarmo, Why you insist in make a competition of this...

Oh c'mon man, take a few breaths and relax a little, and while you're at it reevaluate what he said and what you're saying. ?Your perspective is severely jarred if you believe the new songs have anything but the most minimal impact on ticket sales. That is not an attack on the new material, as I like the new songs.

That's exactly right, GNR is NOT selling tickets based on it's new material. It is selling based on the legacy that Axl, Izzy, Duff, Matt, and Slash have created for the band. It is hard to build a fanbase than to cater to one that has already existed. Why is this argument continuing?

Good question... ::)

So you don't think comparing VR's ticket sales in Detroit in 2004 to 2007 is interesting, but comparing the 2004 ticket sales to GN'R's 2002 ticket sales is?

Weird.




How come you left out Dizzy, Gilby and Steven?

Is it because Dizzy is still in the band and none of them are in VR?



/jarmo

and lets not forget Ted Zig Zag

We are talking about VR and GNR ( thanks to you ) so of course he is going to say slash , duff and matt those are the people being discussed.

Why is Izzy mentioned then? He's not in GN'R or VR.

Explain.




/jarmo

Because Dizzy, Steven, and Gilby had very little to do with the writing and orchestration of the material, I guess I should have included the others for completeness shake, but the jist of the argument still holds true.

what did Gilby and Dizzy do on recordings/songs that are of any notice?
nothing that I couldn't be without.

funny how the biggest thread flamer on this board is the person who runs the board... :-X

What did Matt do? Certainly nothing most people could live without...

yeah, great, a hard rock band without any percussion, great idea cb  :D

plus, 'fish says that if you met sorum on the street you'd be on your knees in about 3 seconds.

Lets see Matt recorded the drums on 2 cd's worth of material for GNR , I think that qualifies as something , no?

Stop with the fucking bullshit.

They were all very important at the time they were in GN'R, and Dizzy still is.

There you go.

If you are going by that logic then what the guy posted before me is crap.I stand by my statement that matt has never done anything worth mentioning. Id hardly call his drumming great.

As for whatever "fish" says, well let's just say I don't give a fuck and leave it at that.  : ok:

Matt wrote which songs?

 :hihi:

Not discrediting him at all. I know what GN'R records he was on!

But you conveniently tried to discredit the input of the original drummer (who plays on the original versions of the songs Matt is currently playing on tour with VR).



The original question didn't mention any writing credits whatsoever. It was merely a question of who had part in making GN'R what it is.



Dizzy can be heard on several albums, just like Matt.


If you wanna credit Matt for something, focus on his solo album or VR.

Don't try to discredit the others who were in GN'R for what they did just to make Matt seem really important.




/jarmo

Because keyboards play just an instrumental role as DRUMS , listen to UYI w/o drums. It's funny how suddenly Adler matters you people , you guys pick and chose when to use certain stuff , that goes for both VR and GNR fans. I'm a fan of ROCK N ROLL , bands that are GOOD are GOOD. Guns N Roses sells tickets because of songs Adler , Izzy , Duff , Slash and Matt created , not because of what Ron or Robin have made  ( here comes the but they are GUNS N ROSES they play GUNS N ROSES songs arguments ).

Didn't you forget somebody very important? Somebody who had a bigger part in GN'R's legacy than the drummers?

 :rofl:



/jarmo

You are still missing the point , yes I completely understand AXL ROSE was instrumental , in fact with out GNR would never be the same. But the same goes for the rest of the gang IMO. You think you can down play a point but a little :rofl: point is , Guns N Roses hasn't done anything in the past decade or more , and the way it looks will continue not to make anything anywhere near as changing as AFD and UYI's , which is what the band lives off of. Past members and legacies , sure VR plays a couple GNR songs , but Axl plays the ENTIRE back catalog and has nothing new to offer. He will continue to sell out arenas because people want to hear Welcome To The Jungle , Paradise City , November Rain etc... no one goes to hear IRS or the Blues. Axl is living in the past a lot more than VR is.

Some are indeed going to hear new material with the old catalouge being a bonus.

That's how it is, whether you like it or not.

And I'm definitely one of them - either way, I don't want to drag the thread off-topic more than it already is.

Majority of the people are not though and Axl isn't giving any new material so looks like everyone wins right , Axl plays 20 year old songs with a back up band and the people get to hear them!  : ok:

Jarmo, I keep fucking saying my concert has not come up yet that I am seeing them at.  So how the fuck would I know???????

Jarmo, I am going to see VR on Oct. 2nd in Birmingham, AL.? When they came here in 2004, It was slammed at the venue.? Probably 5-6,000.? Its a small music hall with some seating.? When I saw them in 2005 in Detroit, they had well over 10,000.? When I saw GNR in Detroit in 2002, it was about 6,000.? GNR never came through may part of the country in 2006 so I have no reference point.? But in 2002 there was no album, just like 2006 and if I remember, the numbers were not "that" different.? And why would they be?? I will have more data to compare come Oct. 2nd.

By the way, VR is playing a larger venue this time around.  We shall see.  It is a Tuesday night vs. last time being a Friday night.  Not making an excuse, but that does affect ticket sales a little.  I will take that into consideration.

OMG. You guys should read through this thread and see your posts. You sound like a bunch of whiny teenage girls. :P

Lies about you ..WTF... I am just stating my opinion. It has been very clear to me why you have this animosity toward VR and there fans. This board used to be a great place for discussion about GnR, past members etc. Then you? (Jarmo) started to get contacted by various people in the GN'R circle. You became a part of that circle. All of the sudden VR was just hype and you didnt buy it. You became one of Axl's yes men, and we all know a yes man to Axl could not say anything good about anything associated with VR. This is all switch and bait , like someone previously posted. That is the only reason you leave this VR section up. Why else would you leave it up, you dont leave it up because you like the band or it's fans that is for sure. It just gets old watching you harass the fans of VR. Before you say it i will, yes i dont have to visit here , but i do, i have made a few really cool internet friends on this board and do enjoy watching the speculation on the release of CD. It just gets really frustrating watching all of the bullshit you bring into these VR threads and blame the VR fans. I myself could careless what either band bring in for each gig, i could careless how many copies Libertad sells. I enjoy there shows and the the cd Libertad, that is all that matters to me. And until Axl delivers this epic, long awaited CD and proves it was worth his so called wait, it is nothing but a joke, and furthermore tarnishes the name Guns n Roses. My question to you is how much will you kiss Slash and Duff's ass if there ever is a GN'R reunion ????????? : ok:

Amen brother.

Asinine comments like these are the best. "there own songs" .....I am reading liner notes right now and for some reason they forgot to credit, Stinson, Fortus, and Finck on every album Guns n Roses has released...Hmmm strange. ? Then you make another fantastic comment about VR and RCA's recording contract. I just dont get how some of you fools just act like Duff and Slash were never apart of the band.

No Guns n Roses arent selling out arena's for there songs. They are drawing a crowd to hear a very good cover band play Axl and his former band members songs. Unless you are talking about CD, Maddy, IRS and Better. I forgot about those tracks ?::) I do like Fortus and Bumblefoot they seem like great dudes. It just sucks reading an interview with them and hear them say , " i have no clue when the album is coming" that has to be frustrating for them. That is my biggest bitch about the new GN'R. Really, how can you call that a band when 3/4 of the musicians know about as much as we do about when there album is gonna be released .  I dont know how anyone can argue about that.

Your opinion is a lie and bullshit.



Here's a couple of question for all you VR fans (Darthmonkey, Falcon, darkdays, RageNIN etc. (Ines is excused because her show was cancelled and she's waiting for the next money making European tour):

Did you go or are you going to see any concert(s) on this leg?

If the answer is no: Why not?





/jarmo

Yes, i have seen VR this leg at Camden. Great Set list. My only complaint was the mix, just as on the Contraband tour.

Listen Jarmo, i am not stating lie nor fact, that is my opinion.? If it is wrong, and not how you feel so be it. Life goes on. I am over arguing about a bunch of millionares. I enjoy there music thats all, some of us take offense about somethings, and i am stating that on both sides.

Yes I did go see VR in Toronto for the warm-up leg of the current tour where they played smaller venues and then I went and saw them in Montreal which was the first concert of the current leg of the tour. The show I saw in Montreal was the best concert I have ever been to. I also saw VR in Ottawa and GNR in Ottawa also. I was never lucky enough to see the classic GNR lineup. I was supposed to go see them in Montreal in 92 but I couldn't make it.

Opinions can't be lies you idiot , that makes no sense they are OPINIONS! I agree with everything he said ,  :beer: thats how you come off. If Axl gives the green light on it , Jarmo is in ( and if Jarmo is in so is Jim Bob ) its sad and stupid. If axl came out and said you know what I need Slash back in the band , i need everyone back lets get it set up all again , Jarmo would say Yes Axl is right he knows what he is doing. All praise Axl's 100% god correctness. You came in this thread and started this whole mess. Axl has given us nothing and I credit him for exactly the amount that he has given me , nothing. People go see Axl to hear the music Slash ,Duff , Izzy ,Steven and Matt made.

To answer the question I saw them in 04 and in 07 i will see them this month , here in houston and I can't wait. Great live act , Great music , sorry it doesn't sell to your standards but never the less its good stuff  :beer: Don't try too bring it back on topic know and act like some good samaritan you fucked this thread up deal with it. You think that the board is a communist thing , where you lead all in the way of Axl's right doings hahah!

I was wondering that myself. How could my opinion be a lie ?????? I do believe that is the first time someone has ever told me i was starting a lie about them over an opinion ???????/ ???

Rock on RageNirvanaNIN :beer:

I think this, by far, proves that you are definitely the idiot.

That's the one with like an attendance of about 3000?




Was it sold out?






Enjoy your extra "credit".


I love how people who weren't even around when GN'R released their first albums think they know me. You don't have the slightest clue and when I set the record straight, you refuse to believe me. After all, you all know me so fucking well.

I never met you and never will.


People go see Axl because he's Axl fucking Rose. Get it though your head. His name is far more recognizable than you want to give him credit for.

If it the only requirement to fill arenas is to play old GN'R songs, how come Adler's Appetite isn't doing that?


If anybody's an idiot, it's you. But then again, I guess your age shows a lot.

You can't discuss anything without trying to insult me.



Axl has given us nothing? What fucking planet are you from? Do they speak English there?

My prediction is that you won't last long here. Fucking troll.

Last warning.....




You keep repeating something over and over, which is an insult and based on made up lies.


How about this: My opinion is that you and this RageNINNirvana guy are siblings married to each other and you live in a trailer park. You caught him cheating on your with your brother.

That explains the anger in your posts.


I can say that about you and you don't mind it?  ???



/jarmo

A: Axl+Guns N Roses name+ Guns N Roses big hits= many people seeing the shows

It?s as simple as that.

At least you're smart enough to give credit where it's due unlike that guy.




/jarmo

I'm I the only one who could careless if a show is sold out? the only thing I care about is if the show was good. And so gar every time I have seen VR live they have kicked ass.

Well for some album sales matter, but then a few years later they don't.....


As far as concerts goes, when a show is sold out, there's a buzz about it.

But it doesn't guarantee the show will be better (audience wise) than one that isn't sold out. It all depends on the audience.





/jarmo

Yes, the Montreal show I went to was the one you say had 3000 people at. I'm not sure what the exact number was. There were several sections that were packed. Regardless of the size of the audience, the show was rocking, the music was great and they put on a kick ass show. I was bebating going to Toronto and seeing the show the next night again, but I have to work. I'll go see VR again next time they come in the Ottawa, Montreal, or Toronto area.

The GNR show in Ottawa was great too, but the band didn't have the same energy as VR. I wouldn't travel to Toronto to see them, possibly Montreal. This isn't cause I like VR...personally I don't like their show as much anymore, the band is too big and it's less intimate. I thought the same thing in 1992. I liked the smaller touring band that they had in 1991 and 1993 better.

UYI and TSI without drums?....awesome

no disrespect....but those albums hardly contain any "creative" drumming....any session drummer can play those....besides, those songs were already written when he got there....so he just had to learn...and play....

No Jarmo, have not and will not.


They're playing arenas, no desire to see them in that kind of setting.

i don't feel like reading through this argument again...so sorry if i'm asking you to repeat yourself....you won't go and see a band that you like because they're playing in an arena?

where would you like to see them?
outdoor?

Well, for you who almost literally woke up one day and started hating VR...I would think that you of all people would know how peoples opinion can change.
if sales mattered to people a few years ago, but not now...it's not more of a deal than your own opinion on VR changing, who the fuck cares?!

talk about devoting a huge amount of time on something you don't like. do you even have time to visit the rest of the forum anymore?

 I am not the person you directed the question to? But I think he likes to see the band in a smaller venue an amphitheater setting is probable more of what he likes.

Nope, not a fan of arena rock shows. ?


I prefer club or theatre gigs, simple as that.

Well, ''November Rain'' and ''Estranged'', probably the best two GNR songs of all times have not Slash/Duff/Matt on the credits and they are still Guns N' Roses songs. No one in the band (in 1993) had participation in the writting process of ''You Aint The First'' but they played it live... was that a cover?

Some of you VR fans need to ACCEPT how things are. You can like the current status of things or you can hate it. But you can't deny it: Guns N' Roses is ONE band who had several lineup changes with the pass of time. GNR was born without Slash/Duff and its still alive (and rocking) without them. Does this FACT make you angry? Not my problem. But your anger will not change a motherfucking thing.


I am being honest: you OBVIOUSLY dont like how things are going with Guns N' Roses. And this forum is mainly dedicated to the PRESENT of Guns N' Roses, so the conclussion is also obvious: this is not the proper place for you. If you believe that the band that rocked japan in july is a cover band this is DEFINITELY not the place for you.

But there is at least ONE place where you may feel a little more confortable at: the Velvet Revolver forum. And because I dont see VR existing and releasing more albums after they end their contract with RCA, I suggest you joining NOW the VR forum because VR wont last forever.


People go to GNR concerts (GNR has sold out around 40 shows since 2001) because they want to hear GNR songs and GNR plays them. And they not only play them: they play them better than ever. Simple as that. Guns N' Roses is not only the lineup that includes Slash... deal with it, think about it, and then accept it for god's sake. The immaturity you all VR fans are showing is embarrasing.


I think I know why you're not mentioning Robin... classic synptom of a resentful VR fan  :hihi:


Do you REALLY think that they dont know a shit about the new album status? Are you that naive?

So when your favorite band gets big enough to play an arena, you stop attending their shows?




/jarmo

I think that is a very stupid thing to say, Everyone has different opinion. I think the current band butchers the GNR songs. The guitarist (while some are technically more gifted than Slash) cannot do justice to the music and their presence on stage sucks ass. It is much more exciting watching Slash and Dave run around. But that is my opinion, which I'm entitled to. You can't tell me what to think and like. If you like the new GNR band, that's great for you. Obvioously there is something that you look for differently than I do. And this bullshit about song ownership....fuck give it a rest already!!!!

VR's not my favorite band, you know that. ?;)

The whole concept of "big" usually takes away from the experience for me, I usually lose a bit of interest once it hits that level.

So let's pray The Cult doesn't sell any records so they can keep playing clubs?

 :P




#1 - How many shows did you attend?

#2 - Slash moves on stage?




/jarmo

I've been to 3 VR shows and 1 GNR show. By Slash's moves I mean the running around and jumping around. He has always been an energetic guitarist. What is amazing is that Dave is even more wired. He's so much fun to look at on stage.

wow, the will to refuse to go and check out a band you love must be strong with you then....just joking, i admire the integrity...can't say the same for myself though....i'd go watch gnr no matter what.....stadium....arena, theater, club...fuck, i even went to Greece...

Lucky enough for me, they're already announced as headlining the Jagermeister Alternative Music Tour here in the states this fall so units shifted will not affect the venue size I'll be seeing them in over the course of the tour.

All theatres baby!!

It's not really a case of integrity, it's just preference.  I've seen so many arena shows over the years
it's just a phase of my concert going life I've outgrown.

Falcon, I think what you do is cool.  GNR at the Joint in Vegas blows away GNR in an arena.  Period.  Same for VR.  The smaller the place, usually, the better the time!

It works for me at this point, no doubt about it.

I've been to shows ranging from large festivals to small clubs and all points in between, my most vivid memories are always derived from the smaller gigs.

that just means Falcon is old! Unfortunately, so am I. Personally, I don't mind the smaller arena shows 10,000 and under. I saw Tool at the Gwinnett Center in Atlanta and it was incredible. However, in a 1500-5000 seat theatre it would be even better. Small venues just have much better sound and energy. : ok: And, when you get older, you simply don't like the crowds. That's why I flew to the Hammerstein shows in NY. I even like to *gasp* sit down....

Now, for the topic, I can't believe that pollstar doesn't have any tour data on the current US/Canada VR tour. Gnr averaged 8600 on the 2002 tour and the 2006 tour. VR's tour is very similar and there should be tour information available. :-\

I thought that the GN'R 2006 NA tour was higher, closer to 9500 per show.  Where did you get the information?  Pollstar?

Ali

there was some pollstar info a while back that had how many shows, average gross and average ticket price. I believe I just did the math.....but it came from billboard or pollstar and it was very similar to 2002. In my opinion, they did well considering no new album and the fact that a very very large majority of the audience knows only Axl is left from the original band.  :-\

Dallas 09.27.07 Smirnoff Music Centre attendance < 6000

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/ent/stories/DN-velvetrevolver_0928gl.ART.State.Edition2.4318808.html




/jarmo

I'm surprised that they only played "Patience" at that show.  But, I've read the ~6000 number a few times on this tour.  I made some of those same observations when I saw VR a couple of weeks ago.  Slash was definitely the star of the show.

Ali

wasn't GNR slated by all reviews when they played download? or did u miss them jarmo??

Yes, that's got a lot to do with the attendances for the VR tour.

Kerrang's crappy review of GN'R headlining at Download in 2006 has a lot to do with VR not selling out shows in North America in 2007.

 : ok:





/jarmo

can i ask what your point is buy proclaiming that VR aren't selling out arenas, the only person that seems to be making a song and dance about it is u! you haven't heard the band complain?

What point? this topic is called 'hows Velvet Revolver's attendance' with the lead-in to the topic being 'On this recent tour is it sold out or is it barely selling tix ?'  they're just answering whoever made this topic's question.  :P

Artistic integrity has absolutely nothing to do with album sales or concert attendance. Hence, Tom Waits.

Is English your first language?

I didn't even start the thread.




/jarmo

but u bombard VR threads with negativity, are we allowed to do that in the main GNR board?

Jarmo... one clear thing you're forgetting.  And it's a massive thing.  And I think as a once respected forum moderator, you should remember this ...

Music is subjective.

So when you say Snakepit etc doesn't stand the test of time.... It's 5 o'Clock Somewhere was released in 1995, and I had it on last night.  Because I love it.  I thjink it's one of the coolest albums I own.

Subjective.  Very important word man...

Is this a VR fan site aimed at VR fans?





/jarmo

Then get rid of the VR forum already.  Holy crap...reading the discussions back in forth is laughable. 

You do not like VR jarmo...and that is quite well known.  Why do you keep the forum up then?  To allow GnR fans a place to talk about another band they like?  Or for you to rant and name call and bump your chest when you post about how much VR sucks, are liars, phonies, puppy killers, etc?  Or is it to bait posters into getting into arguments with you?  I think it is the latter...but it is your board, so you can do what you please.

I don't take part in the majority of threads posted on this board. I don't like wrestling.... Maybe I should just get rid off them too?

Why don't you stop whining about it already?

I keep repeating this for some of you time after time after time.

I don't know what the problem is with certain VR fans and the need for me to repeat it.


This section isn't a VR shrine for me. It's for those GUNS N' ROSES fans who support GN'R in 2007 but are curious about what the former members are doing today. Same reason why we have a Ex-Gunners section in the first fucking place.

Just because certain former members talk more shit than others, doesn't mean I should remove the VR section.

You don't like the fact that I post what I think.

I don't go to VR or Slash sites to post my opinion because I know those sites are aimed at a different crowd.


So shut the fuck up already. This section isn't here for me, but it doesn't mean I can't say what's on my mind when I see something I don't agree with.


Some of you VR fans seem to have bumped your heads badly this week:

#1: Why can't you change the rules? Freedom of speech!
#2: Why do you have the VR section, because you personally don't like the band?

I've answered those questions more than once.

You just refuse to listen and since you refuse to listen, you keep repeating the same shit over and over.

Must be great. Ignoring the simple truth and answers just so you can feel you're right.  ::)




/jarmo

This is the main problem Jarmo. This board is for Guns fans who are just curious about VR? You?re immediately rejecting the fans of this band. You don?t like VR fans even if in the first place, they are Guns N? Roses fans. I can?t get it really cos I mean... how does it affect you if many of the guys posting here actually like VR? It?s almost as you?re discriminating them as saying that this is aimed to people who are just curious about the band. Why can?t you accept that we can be fans of both bands? I mean... we feel as we?re doing something really bad lol... like it?s a great sin or whatever. Another thing you point at us is that we go to the Guns board and spread negativity through there... I won?t deny... some do. But not the majority! I?ve never done that. I respect the guys who post there even if in some ways I disagree with them. That doesn?t happen in this board... at all. You know... this is kinda sad cos we?re making a "war" here... when our reason to be here is the same among us all: we?re all Guns N? Roses fans. But feuds start happening when we decided that Guns fans are different from each other... some are more fans than others... some are less... and that?s crap... I don?t think it should be that way... at all.

Oh and btw your last sentence in your quote... it should be aimed at you too.

I am a Guns n Roses fan.   That is why I joined this site in the first place.   I do not belong to any VR or Slash forum.  I enjoy coming here and getting new info on GnR, talking about GnR and related bands and artists...which includes VR. 

You must love the word "fuck" as you use it every chance you can.

You are just a bully.  Your site would be nothing today if it wasn't for the fans of GnR past and present.  If you banned or limited the site to those that ONLY are interested in the 2007 version of the band...it would be quite a lonely message board. 

So?

Why is that such an issue?

We love GN'R. That's why we're here.


If you love VR and loved GN'R in 1992, it doesn't really matter. You're on the wrong site then.

I really don't need to welcome people who's only interest in GN'R is to remind us how great everything was when certain people were still in the band.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Please explain. I'm really trying to understand why you can't just realize that we are not a site aimed at every individual in this solar system who have loved GN'R at some point in time between now and 1985.

This section is for those GUNS N' ROSES fans who are curious about what the ex-members are doing and want to keep up with that. It's not for those VR fans who think they have a right to bash GN'R because of "freedom of speech".


Why is it that people in this section are always lecturing me about what kind of site I should run?

I appreciate feedback and suggestions, but this campaign you guys are having is beyond ridiculous.




Where do you get this shit?

#1: You MUST be a GUNS N' ROSES fan. Meaning, 2007 style.
#2: I don't care if you're a Fall Out Boy fan in addition to that.




Listen here Ines, just because you and your VR fan buddies here don't like how this site is run doesn't mean I have to change it.

Do you get that or do I have to keep repeating it for you?

If I didn't listen, I wouldn't be replying to the same shit day after day after day because you keep crying about it now would I?



Says the guy who's attacking me with a hand full of others because I refuse to do what you think I should do.....





/jarmo

well it seems Im totally out on a limb!!!  I have seen GNR, VR and MCR over the last two years, have bought music that I love from two of them, hopefully will get some music off one of them soon!!! BUT I love them all!!!!  IT IS ALLOWED  xxxx

I don't feel like reading 13 pages of bullshit to find an answer, but does anyone know how VR's tickets are selling in 2007, compared to 2004?

No probably not!!!

When have I done that? Oh wait... maybe I do it by posting on this board? Whenever I say I?m really looking forward to the Slash?s book or to VR to come to Lisbon? Is that reminding you how great everything was when certain people were still in the band? I don?t think so but maybe that?s it. If that?s the case I?m trully sorry then. I should have been more careful. I should have joined the others and say "oh... VR sucks, Slash is a fucking liar, oh there is he again talking about Guns..." so that I?d feel more accepted. And maybe adding that I love Chris Pittman. Well I won?t do that. I don?t feel that is right. However, I?ve never done one thing since I joined: criticize the current band. Have you ever saw me doing that? I respect the guys god damnit. Would they come here again like 3 times a year I?d go to all those gigs. I think they are a cohesive band these days and deliver really good performances. But that doesn?t matter does it?

Even if there are VR fans who go bitch to the Guns board (which I think is fucking lame... ), which there are, there are exceptions! And those who are exceptions don?t have to feel apart... like they don?t belong here. I feel I do belong here just like some really good members who come here to offend Slash. Maybe I?m seeing things wrong. It?s my fault if that?s so... and for that I?m sorry.




Well for me this is getting fucking boring also. Not only for you. Everyday same discussions happen here. Yet we don?t stop. Maybe it?s my fault and my "VR buddies" cos we should stop posting here everyday when there are much better VR forums for that purpose (and for that I am to blame too cos I had promised not to post in this board ever again... ) but you are to blame as well, posting every single day in a board dedicated to a band you don?t even like.
We all are to blame. And by keeping this 12/13 pages of "bull fight" per thread? we ain?t getting anywhere for sure. And that is bad either for you and for me and my "VR buddies".


I really wish you could take what I said above in consideration instead of keeping on labeling of whatever kind of things. This is end of discussion for me.

Why do you take everything I say personally?

Are you "people"?

I thought you were "a person".



If you think Slash is the most honest person to have graced the face of earth, or that Scott is the saviour of rock n' roll, that's your business.

Don't expect all GN'R fans to share those opinions.



/jarmo

should we agree to disagree? ;D

How about all the VR fans admitt that the tour is a faliure ?

I don't know if the tour is a failure or not, but I saw them in Tampa Saturday night at the Ford Ampitheater and that place was fucking packed. It has 9,500 reserved seats, then the pit, then the lawn.  I know the seats were full and the pit, where I watched, was jam packed (probably easily put a couple hundred people in there). I didn't check out the lawn area, but it looked full.

I don't understand how selling six THOUSAND tickets at a show is a failure?!

How much per ticket ?  $30 ?  ... That's 6000 x 30 = $180,000

Sorry but 180,000 dollars is a fucking LOT of cash, and if they take those figures and average them to the whole tour, over however many dates, this tour will be generating MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars... couple that with all the international ticket sales, the sales of Libertad, and festival shows etc... plus any promo deals, and licencing with whatever ...

Take off the wages and costs and I guarantee you, you're still talking about a few million dollars in profit.

I mean ... why is everyone here so quick to slag this kind of ticket sales off?

If Guns N' Roses sold only this many tickets, it would technically be a massive failure sure, because of the massive amount riding on the shoulders of that band name ... but VR selling that many tickets?  Do you know how many bands would die to sell half that per show?

Grow the fuck up everyone.  Just fucking grow up.

maybe you should find yourself a Velvet Revolver forum.

Sorry ... what?  What has that got to do with anything?

I would define failure as revenue not surpassing expenditure; everything else is subjective. What is your definition?

Half empty / half full venues

( Don?t talk smart with me, i can?t handle it )

Well then GNR is pretty much a failure now too. We just have to admit it, we're in a different era now. The era where piece of shit songs like Gimme More by Britney climb the charts with ease. It's a sad state of affairs. I often wonder how Appetite would sell today if it was released now. It's unfortunate cause I don't think we would have this argument at all, I'm not sure they would have sold nearly as many albums as they did. probably half the members would have been dead and there would have never been a VR and GNR probably would not have existed 5 year beyond Appetite.

My definition of failure is what the music industry has turned into.

Yes, i agree with you to some level..But GNR?s trip trough Europe was a triumph ..Would VR draw the same crowd ? Even though GNR is living on old achivements, they are 1 number bigger than VR..And stronger..VR is also living on old things ( you know what ) I don?t think this should be discussed.." Who?s bigger, who?s better"  It?s a matter of taste in what band who?s best..But when you look at both sales and shows..GNR wins..I just think that some hardcore VR-fans should admitt that...Okay i take back what i said a couple of posts back when i wrote that VR is a faliure, but to say that GNR is also a faliure is wrong...At least they attract  ::)

It?s all about downloads today..Linkin park sold about 12 million records in 2000-2001, the latest album sold "only" a couple of millions..Alot has change in theese 6 years. The old bands like Metallica and Iron Maiden will always sell tons of records, because the fans always buy the album like it?s their duty...If AFD would have been released in 2007 i think it would have sold 5 million, and be downloaded 10 million.

Excuse my fukkin english  : ok:

I agree things have changed a lot in the last SEVEN years, but Contraband was released THREE years ago not SEVEN.  You could still argue things have changed in that timeframe, but have they changed THAT much?

Because they played several sold out shows in Australia while VR are gonna play smaller venues?

Same thing in Japan, GN'R in arena sized venues, VR going for the smaller ones.


Not every show sells out, but they play for bigger crowds and headline festivals. That's something VR doesn't do.

It's not even a comparison to most sensible people. GN'R is in the premier league and VR isn't even being considered to be promoted.


/jarmo

Jarmo, I see where darth is going if you read that whole post.  True, GNR is still "big" but only because of past sucess.  Bands like Linkin Park rule the roost now.  Bon Jovi may still be a big draw, but they still release great chic rock and guys like them too.  We live in a singles era more now than ever.  November Rain could never get on radio now if it was a new single.  That is what is worrysome and why I fear that CD will never be fully appreciated by the masses. 

a failure is when more people are there to see the high school kids you have opening for you leaving no more than 40 people in the room to see you. (ie Adler's Appetite)

I wasn?t talking about VR..I thought that was kinda clear, the other guy talked about the music buisness, and i took LP as a example..duuuuh  ;)

Now that was cheap

... but a damn good definition.

I realize that, I can read.  So Linkin Park released an album SEVEN years ago that did great, this last one, not as great.  I made the comparison to VR.  Contraband did quite well THREE years ago.  Libertad, not so much.

GNR has not been selling out too many of their shows, they have sold out some in place like Japn and Australia mostly based on the old GNR legacy. I don't think you can compare the sales and attendance of GNR with VR now, a fairer comparison would be to the Contraband numbers since both bands were still banking off the GNR popularity. It will be interesting to see how GNR does after CD, both in terms of sales of the next album and in terms of attendence at venues.

I was not getting into a war of comparing GNR and VR, I try and shy away from that I think it's pretty sad. I do admit that GNR sell more tickets than VR and will probably sell as much or if not more than Contraband, but as stated above this is due primarily to their back history and not the current catalogue of the band.

The music industry is a bad place right now, hopefully GNR and VR can do something to correct it.

True but when is the new GN'R album coming out?  VR has put out two.  I know GN'Rs will be better than both but at least they are making music.

This doesn't have anything to do with a bands "capability" to release an actual album.

Let's face it, the tour hasn't been doing so well - but who cares?! If the shows are good, they're good. Filled with people or not.

I'm looking forward to see both Velvet Revolver and Guns N' Roses again, and I don't give a rats ass if those shows aren't sold out.

yes

whaaaaaevahhhh

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Entertainment/Music/2007/10/17/4582469-sun.html



/jarmo

I was at that concert.  First thing first, it was my first time seeing VR live and my seats were pretty close up to the stage and I have to say they put on a great performance.  Tickets were 70$ Canadian, and yes the arena was not even half full.  They closed the upper level section and only had the lower and floor spaces.  On the floor the seats were pretty spaced out too unlike when I went to Bon Jovi and probably Van halen coming up.  When Guns N' Roses played here they sold the place out completely.  The only thing with GNR tho is that their floor isnt organized so everyone on the floor just crammed up to the front.  If they had organized the seats the concert would have looked 100% sold out.  I think VR had a bigger audience last time they came, but I would have much rather seen them in a smaller club venue, that would be absolutley crazy!

I think the attendence for the VR shows isn?t that bad for a rock n roll band in 2007, you got to put things in perspective. GnR should atract bigger crowds than VR. They are a huge legendary name. But even the GnR tour wasn?t an overwhelming succes for a band with their legacy. Sure they played for big crowds but these were mostly festivals. In Holland they played for 15.000 people with bands like Alice in Chains and Stone Sour on the same bill. In 1993 the played at the exact same area twice, each day for over 50.000 people. I?d say these days they draw a 10.000 - 15.000 per show if its a GnR only show. Not bad at all, but no comparisment at all with the bands ?golden years?. And nowhere near the amount of people that go to see bands like Bon Jovi, or U2 for example. That is nothing to be ashamed about. Its a whole different ballgame in the music industry these days. GnR and VR are rock ?n roll bands, while these other bands are drawing a much more mainstream audience. I also think that in GnR case the bands reputation is a factor. I?ve spoken a lot of people who just didn?t believe anymore that they would actualy show up. But anyway lets just be glad these guys (Both VR and GnR) are back were they belong. On stage and still making a lot of people happy with their music every night.? ?: ok:? ?

thats literally how it was during saturdays show.

the venue even turned off the mikes during welcome to the venue because they played over their limit

yeah your probably right..But ..It?s steven, it?s another dimension if you compare to VR and Guns ffs