Here Today... Gone To Hell!

There's a doco on Max this weekend - "The Last Days of Kurt Cobain".

Duff speaks on it, saying that he and Kurt shared a few drinks and he though that Kurt was in a very lonely place.

Anyone seen the promo for this?

They showed that over here a few months back. It doesn't focus 100% on his last days. They'll talk about what was going on a week before his death (for example) then talk about when he was born then go back to 6 days before his death.

I remember them asking Duff if he was shocked by Kurt's suicide and he pauses for a long time and then says "no". I think that was the question anyway.

They speak to quite a few people if I recall correctly.

I think it was the dope sickness that killed him, hell, I know it was. Whenever anyone has said that opiate withdraw can't kill you, I bring up Cobain.

He'd be 40 if he was alive today.  :'(

The day he died, MTV was the only thing that mentioned it ... untill later. They were on the air all day about it. It breaks my heart when anyone dies like that, what could have been, what didn't have to be ... if he could have only found a maintenence clinic. :'(

why would anyone give a fuck about him.
he certainly didnt... why should I?!

I understand what you're saying. He is certanly not an examplo to anyone...choose the easy way out. I wonder how many nirvana fanatics killed themselves after this? Do you think it had that kind of impact?

You don't have a fucking clue. Educate yourself and quit being so fucking ignorant.

If I can rememember correctly, a whole generation of then 14/15 years olds became rather 'lost/disenchanted/affected/fucked up' after that one.

I dont think so. if someone killed them salves, they would have done it, no matter if kurt was dead or alive.

Personally, I have no respect for people who people who do such things, and I'm gratefully they helped "ensure the long-term survival of the human race by removing themselves from the gene pool in a sublimely idiotic fashion."

 
http://www.darwinawards.com/

yes, that was what i was saying...if you're a public figure like he was, worshipped by many, how the hell can you give that kind of example and contiue to be worshipped? ?I know his suicide contributed a lot to the success that still goes on with the band...well, these are very fragile topics!

I don't think he had much choice in the matter.

He was suffering from a mental illness....

As Duff said, he was in a very lonely place.

what was duff suposed to say?!

"he was a retarded little fag, and I'm surprised that he actually died, since he had no vital organs in his head anyway"

of course he said something ambiguous and sympathetic.

Addiction is a very painfull disease. It hurts so fucking bad when you are sick that you will do anything to releave that pain, including your own destruction. It drags on, and fucking on, and fucking on forever it seems like, unless one has felt that pain, they have no fucking clue. did you know where the idiom "kicking the habit" came from? The man suffered from a chonic, and progressive illness that the end results are ... institutions or death if not stabilized.

EDIT : especially addiction to opiates.

Nobody is forcing you to give a fuck about him..But why are you even writing in a thread about him then ?

because it's a disgrace that people still remember him.

^A child who doesn't have a clue.

He was a member of one of the most famous bands of the 20th century. I don't think people will forget him any time soon.

A 7th grader that I taught last semester chose to play "Seems Like Teen Spirit" in her radio play.

This is what she wrote in her radio script:

Now something for our heavy rockers. We are going to put on 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' by Kurt Cobain. He was a very nice man. He had a beautiful daughter Francis Bean but he died on April 8th 1994. He died in his Washington home. Enough heroin was in his blood to kill 3 people. Beside him on the floor was a shotgun.

And that is all for today. We will see you tomorrow at 9:00. Bye.

Nirvana is completely over rated.  Had he not killed himself Nirvana would have flamed out along with all the other grunge bands.  Nirvana gets credit for ending the 80s hair/hard rock scene, but I think they are more known for that then their actual music.

I agree that they are sometimes overrated. And they're one of my favourite bands.


But I don't know that they would have disappeared though had Cobain lived. They seemed to have too much of an impact to have just faded away. Then again, I wasn't there to see it (well, I was, but a bit young to be listening to Nirvana).

Cobain was a revolutionary genius that put an end to the shit that was being played on the radio then ... along with a few others.

i think thats exaggerating a bit.  "revolutionary genius"  c'mon.
 
they had one album. their impact is more on putting an end to 80s music than their actual music.  If anything, grunge not only killed the whole 80s scene, but has ruined music for over a decade now.  Grunge was a flash in the pan, it was a fad.  what have we had since then?  absolutely nothing.  ESPECIALLY for rock.  Name one REALLY good rock act that has had a giant impact in music since 1995?  there hasn't been a Beatles, stones, zeppelin, GNR since that time.  Creed? NIN? fall out boy?  kid rock!?!?  :hihi:

After grunge you didn't even have to know how to play guitar, just a few chords.  it killed the guitar solo for crying out loud!

totally fucked rock in the ass.

Damn you are cool..

His wife defintely didn't help him with his addictions. ?I feel bad for his daughter over anyone else's false sense of loss. ?He was tired of his addiction and depressed and that's lethal. ?I do think it's a cowards way out but to him, it was his only way out. ? Addictions sucks regardless of the pleasure. ?Some can handle the stopping part and some can't. ?That's why people reach out to help thoughs who can't deal with it, so they don't choose to end their life rather than start living it. ?Am I an addict? no but I stopped drinking when I felt I got too good at it. (Now an occasional beer is rare years even)It's mind over matter and some people just can't do that though. ?Do I know addicts? ?Yeah Who doesn't? ?Some deal with it and are doing well and some took their lives rather than living through the pain or solace of their demon. ?Sad stuff to watch someone deteriorate that way too. ?He had people who could have helped more but in the end He chose not to be helped. ?I was not a fan of his grundgy ass (a few songs yes) But looking at it from a compassionate point of view, It's a Damn shame that he blew his brains out because of mental struggles and addiction.

yeah .... he is fonzie cool.

As Doug Stanhope would say, how the hell do you know Cobain dyng then wasn't a good thing.  Maybe he filled every hole, used every drug and came out at the end empty realizing the "dream" was just that.  He knew he was done so he offed himself.  How do you know that if Hendrix hadn't died he wouldn't be doing some half-time superbowl show with Elton John playing Rocket Man and everyone is saying "Man I wish he would have died 30 years ago, that guy was my hero."

Nirvana was sub-par at best.  How many bands called themselves Nirvana or played the sappy grundge shit out of Seattle?  There were alot and Kurt Cobain got lucky.  I'm not saying the man didn't have talent, but this legacy and cult following portrays a much different man then the one that existed.  Besides, this is a GN'R forum.  Nirvana and GN'R don't mix, even Cobain himself said that shit  ;D.

He wrote great lyrics, the music felt good and was very influencal as we gotten to learn. Not very overated imo :peace:

I don' t see how anyone can talk shit about Cobain

Like him or not, U can't discredit what an amazing songwriter he was.

He DID revolutionlize music whether anyone wants to give him credit or not and this guy was FUCKING REAL unlike all these God damn Woe IS ME POSERS who pretend to be abused and tortured as an IMAGE to SELL RECORDS.


When Cobain swore he didn't have a gun, it brought u chills cause u knew he was capable of killing himself.

HE DID KILL HIMSELF


This guy was the REAL THIng no matter what the fuck some of u try to say .

what was revolutionized?  3-4 years worth of music?  and now over a decade later we are getting some of the worst rock music in the past 40-50 years.  sorry, i thought the music was average then and i don't think it even comes close to holding up now. 

Trent Reznor was the revolution. Nirvana was devolution.

oh please, i can count on one hand the number of bands they influenced. Manson and stabbing westward....c'mon.  After grunge it was just lame attempt after lame attempt to be "the next big thing".  things might have been cool at the time, but they got so played out so quickly.  hard to believe limp bizkut used to be cool.  or that people actually bought kid rock records.  or that creed sold millions of albums. 

early pearl jam and Korn, tool and pantera are the only good things that came out of the 90s.

I saw this sarvo, was pretty interesting. Its funny tho coz if it was just another person I wouldn't have given a fuck but being that it was Kurt Cobain made me feel a bit sorry for him. Normally I wouldn't give junkeis the time of day.


 :peace:

Here's my deal with Cobain and Nirvana.

I HATE that because of Cobain we have stupid emo poseurs who make crappy music, and always list him at the top of their list of influences.

I love their music though.  It's not complicated stuff, but it gets the job done.  Nevermind rocks pretty hard, and there is a lot of catchy stuff.  In Utero is pretty great too, and the Unplugged album has some great covers.

I love flannel.

The guy did change music though, and I credit him for ending all that cheesy hair metal crap.  (See, mrlee)

I don't know, maybe since I was a 90's kid, the stuff has been ingrained in my subconscious, but I have no problems with Nirvana or KC.

It wasn't cool that he killed himself, but I heard he had stomach cancer and he was gonna die anyway.

Sorry I have to disagree with you on the lyrics. I grew up a Nirvana fan and I think Kurt, while not a gifted musician, was a great songwriter and a really good singer. That being said, he had a couple lyrical gems here and there but in my opinion I could count them on one hand and still be able to tell someone "peace out" visually. His lyrics kind of started a trend in rock of stringing words together that are sometimes nothing more than sentence fragments.

^Yeah, his lyrics were sometimes jibberish, but somehow he made it work.

Just like their musical abilities.  They really weren't great musicians, but they turned chicken shit into chicken salad.

They just had the right chemistry for the time, and they made something out of it.

When Nirvana hit, there was nothing like them, period. I remember a DJ saying "I don't know what the hell this guy is saying, but I absolutely love it."  :hihi:

It's my personal belief that Cobain, in certain ways, was a fraud.

He always claimed that he hated success, yet he never turned down a photo or video shoot. The dude contradicted himself way too much for my taste. Don't say that you hate something yet still do it with a smile on your face.

That being said, I can count the Nirvana songs that I like on one hand, and definitely need to agree that they're the most overrated band of all time.

We thought that a line in 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' was "I'm beater, not a skater"...... :rofl:

I dislike the term 'overrated' anyway. Usually just means "music that lots of people like, but I don't". Just say you hate the fucking music! :hihi:

Yeah, right.

Nirvana were a good band, even though they might have been overrated at times.

But people can't deny the talent of the trio that Nirvana once was.

What has that got to do with the price of eggs in China?

Nirvana was as much responsible for the posers and bad music we got in the 90's as Guns'N'Roses was...
They just were concidered more relevant at the time and got the biggest following.

It's not just that, but a lot of important bands just died out/changed music or changed line-ups.

Motley Crue made an album called "new tatto" in 2000 I think, which should have been the follow-up to DR.Feelgood.
It wasn't that bad but people wanted to explore too. :peace:

Did you just say that GN'R was responsible for bad music in the 90s?

Good point, I forgot about the nonsensical lyrics.  Just read some BUSH or STP lyrics and you'll know who to thank. so many alternative bands in the early-mid 90s just put out their one hits and will never be heard from again.  extremely lame time for music.

I don't want to "down buzz" on the younger generation, but, WTF does a teen know about posers? shit, educate me.

I learnt everything I know from Jimmy Dean...

Dayam!, you are old school (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?s=&journalid=370912).

"Im worst at what I do best"



One of the best lyrics ever and I don't give a shit what anybody says. : ok:

One of my favorites is ... "Oh well, whatever, ... nevermind". It is like " yeah, well fuck you too, who gives a shit". Gotta love the apathy

A song no one ever mentions but "All Apologies" is one of the greatest songs also

I think In Utero is a ton better than Nevermind, but I actually don't really care for "All Apologies" all that much.

In Utero gets much of its coolness from Mr. Dave Grohl.

Agreed. He plays his ass off on that album.

Younger generations actually tend to stick to their own beliefs regardles of society opinion :P

The point was tho, if for example cinderella was inspired by Axl Rose...is it ok to hold Axl responsible for shit music and call him overated?
Nirvana created some great music and lyrics, thats enough for me :peace:

cinderella aren't shit.

 :rant:

Yet another Kurt rules vs. Kurt sucks thread....

This is like soooooo 1997....

Kurt Cobain was many things:

-An elitist
-Arrogant
-Kind
-A gifted songwriter
-he revolutionized music
-he ushered in an era of crap that he himself would have despised

Every side here has a point. But I guess threads like this will go on forever.

For the record, in my opinion, if he were still living he'd be playing theaters with Billy Corgan.

Don't forget, Axl was even influenced by Kurt -- until Kurt started acting like a prick.  That whole incident made me feel real sour about Kurt Cobain.
Axl was trying to be so supportive of this new band and was really into what Kurt was doing, and then Kurt basically spits in his face. 

I used to love Nirvana, but actually lost interest when I started listening to GnR.  I came in on Use Your Illusion, right before November Rain was released as a single, than went backwards to Appetite for Destruction. 

About Cobain's death, I didn't like it when others (not in this thread) tried to portray Cobain as some martyr who died for rock n' roll.  The sad truth is he was a junkie suffering from severe depression who was too sick to get help.  And when you have a junkie wife that certainly is not going to help the situation.  But I used to get so annoyed about all his bitching about success, when he actively pursued it.  I think that's the real reason why he hated Axl -- because Axl was enjoying his success.  But that's just my theory.
 

I think that might be overstating just a bit.  I don't know how accurate it is to say the whole generation of young teens became messed up because of Kurt Cobain's death, at least to my recollection of my friends around me at the time.  I didn't know anyone else who cared about it.

But, after deaths of public figures and tragic events, statistics show that the suicide rates will spike a little, and after Cobain's death, the suicide rate did spike a bit.

According to Dave himself, Kurt hated the drums on In Utero  :(

But i?m with you, he kick ass on that album --- Scentless apprentice  :drool:

NIN was there 5 years before Nirvana...  :P
nirvana influenced retards... just like George Bush does.

Say what?

Absolutely. Kurt was swimming with dolphins are far back as 1991. Axl just jumped on the bandwagon!

What's your point?? Why bring politics and basically bashing Americans whether you realize it or not into a Curt Cobain thread.? I may not be a big fan of Nirvana either but your statement has nothing to do with this thread.? Stay on topic my young friend.

'tis true.? I can't find the original interview but Axl was talking about a particular day on tour where he was really down and he was able to get through it because of Nirvana's music -- something to that effect.? He said how it must have been such a huge "mind fuck" to rise to fame the way they did and that he wanted to support Kurt Cobain any way he could.? If anyone remembers which article this is, please let me know.? Also, I had read at the time that he tried to book Nirvana as the opening act for the GnR/Metallica tour.? I think it wasn't until Kurt Cobain started attacking Axl in interviews that the feud began.

That?s true, and i can really understand Nirvana for not taking part in the GNR/Metallica toru..Nirvana was just as big as the other 2 in 1992,,But it would have been really cool to see..

I don't know if I agree with that 100%. Nirvana were becoming huge around that time but I am pretty sure theres no chance they could have filled any of the places GnR and Metallica were playing seperate, let alone on the same bill. I'm actually pretty sure they never did play anywhere that big. It's the same situation as AFD coming out and being huge but guns were still opening for Aerosmith. That said, it woulda been an amazing opportunity for them at the time (not that they ended up needing it) and I wonder how Dave and Noveselic felt about having to turn it down because Kurt had a problem with Axl for seemingly no other reason than Kurt being pretentious. It's that weird paradox a couple people have mentioned already and cited Kurt as being hypocritical, and I think it was even in his diary they published, where Kurt is doing the things you do to become famous yet acting like he hates all of it to try and stay true to some independant art thing.

that sums up the entire grunge movement though!!!  here were all these guys coming out with the "deep" lyrics, jeans and flannels, very "normal" "down to earth" guys but they were all raking in the cash the same way the 80s musicians were.  they just weren't making over the top videos like November rain and don't cry.  the image was different but pearl jam, nirvana, stp, sound garden were far from these moody independent depressed deep musicians they all wanted us to think they were. 

I think Vedder, Cornell and Weiland were posers to a degree but COBAIN KILLED HIMSELF


HELLO

I don't think his depression etc was an act.

so killing yourself gives you street cred?  Can you please tell Fall Out Boy that?  :rofl:

I think act ually killing yourself does give u street cred

Same reason 2Pac and Biggie have the street cred they will always have.


I mean Kurt always seemed so depressed and so miserable, so the fact he killed himself kind of proves he was for real.


I hate how people say "He Cursed fame but embraced it"


Thats real easy to fuckin criticize when u havent walked a mile in his shoes.

I don't care how REAL U ARE, Fortune and fame will tease even the most distraught and uninterested person to a degree.

I think Cobain realized he was becoming everything he ever hated which had a huge part in his suicide. Embracing the fame,money etc left him so conflicted cause half of him wanted to stop but the other half wouldn't let him so he did the only thing he could:

He killed himself.

Don't get much more credible than that.


Fall out boy! LOL! What A Gay ass shit band.

He was 4 days into a dope sickness, the most painful time, also the time when the brain chemistry is most out of whack. He was trying to get clean, does anyone know if he used that morning. That always causes a lot of regret when trying to get clean.

artists that die or are killed in their prime are always revered more than those that are are past the high point in their careers.  dying early doesn't mean you were good, it just means nobody had time to see you turn to shit, get old and your abilities decline.  same goes for athletes and actors...

they had 2 studio albums, thats really not a lot is it?

if fred durst shot himself in the head after their second album, would you see people wearing "fred forever" shirts?  You might.

So he should have adjusted his dose accordingly then.

Yeah...

That's the easiest thing on earth when you've been a drug addict for years.

Sad, he was trying to get clean........4 days in......poor guy.

There would have been no need to adjust it, his tolerance would have been the same;

oh; I see.....

So, what my student wrote about there being enough heroin in his system to kill 3 people is true then.







Say, did River Phoenix die in the same year?

River died in 1993.  I had heard that because he lived such a healthy life style, he thought his body would be more equipped to handle doing drugs. 

Definitely, to some one without a tolerance. I've seen people with enough dope to kill 10 "normal" people in them. So he did use before he died then. Heroin has a very short half life and then is metabolized to morphine like substances. If someone didn't use for 4 days, there would be no metabolites in their system.

Well Dave and Krist wasn?t " best-budies" with Axl either as i recall..I don?t think that Nirvana could have filled a 50.000 stadium back then, but the sales didn?t lie and well..Nirvana was Nirvana..During 1992 Nirvana headlined huge festivals instead.. I know it?s not the same thing as a own stadium show, but i really think that when Nirvana was at their peak, they could have done pretty much the same shows as GNR, just for a brief period...Maybe not big stadiums, but arenas ? absolutley!  I think they even did a couple of +10.000 gigs, but not to many..They mostly played minor fields in front of like 5.000 or moore back in 92. One of them, my father attended :P They played alot of arenas during In Utero, but thoose shows were not even close to be filled. But 91-92..I guess everybody knew their name.

In 1992 they headlined the first Big Day out in Australia. The Adelaide one was held on Australia Day in the grounds of Adelaide Uni amongst the cloisters. The year after, it was moved to a a larger showground venue.

Three of us spent the day sitting on the River Torrens sipping some beers and celebrating 'Australia Day' with some brothers. It's a controversial day for the Indigenous community, why celebrate an Invasion?

Anyway, we could hear the various acts from the River, including Nirvana. We spent most of the day doing a "Bond stealth mission", combing the university's outer perimeter try to find a way in. We did spot a? downpipe and an open window that would have been useful........

In the end, we decided that it would have to be dusk or never! - We were going to jump the fence.

Our friends with the beers gave us a boot up and we were in!. Well, the area we happened to jump into was backstage!!! We started dancing to the music to quickly fit in, looking up at the band adoringly! Two security guys came up to us and asked if we had tickets, we said no and the next thing you know we got lifted over the fence into the 'inner sanctum'.

Lucky for us we got to see the final act............only Iggy Pop, Tex and The Cruel Sea and Sonic Youth!

Nirvana actually had 3 studio albums. And only 1 of those was recorded while they were famous.

Yeah...and ?

I have all of Nirvana's cd's, and "With The Lights Out" the box set. Plus the "Live Tonight, Sold Out" dvd. Real good stuff on all of them.
I for one, don't have and dislike for the music, just because my favorite artist was in a fued with Kurt Cobain. I dislike Kurt because he was a fucking coward and killed himself when he had a fucking child. Someone who will never know who her father was.
Also, his "I hate the fame" attitude. If you don't want to be famous, don't sign the the major label record company. Don't go on huge tours. Don't do press. Stay in your little hick town, playing infront of a bunch of people you know.
Also, him being a part of this so called "27 club" or whatever the fuck. Sorry man, you shot yourself. You didn't die through excess.

Um, I don't think that he can hear you..

i wonder if he saw the writing on the wall that grunge was dead and he was about to be forgotten, and all the fame he had hated in the beginning he had come to love - losing it would be to much to bear. Realizing he was 27, he shoots himself and joins the 27 club; becoming "immortal" in terms of music.

You are right, i share your opinion ( good song btw - opinion  : ok:)

And also another thing..I don?t get why people call him " God "..Some emo wanker said to me once " He wasn?t god, but as close as a person can get to a god"..Um..What a fuck did he do for the world peace ? See what i mean ?  He made amazing music, and i didn?t dig the showsalesman who wrote shit about him a few posts back, but that?s as far it goes for me.

Lil' Butters said that they had 2. I was just saying, they had 3.

Incesticide doesn't count?
I see that+ bleach, nevermind and in utero if you don't count unplugged either.

incesticide was mostly a collection of stuff that was done before Bleach.  So I wouldn't count it, its from a lot of different recording sessions.

In Utero is an ace fucking album.

Teenage angst has paid of well, now i'm bored an old.
I just wan't you to know that I don't hate you anymore, but there is nothing I can feel that I haven't felt before.

I like that album too, there's some great lyrics in it. Or bleach if you like the more raw stuff. School! :headbanger:

Were looking to see if the docu was on youtube or something, nothing yet with that title.

Nirvana have more compilations/live albums than proper studio albums. Incesticide, With The Lights Out, From The Muddy Banks..., Unplugged, Nirvana, Sliver etc.


I agree with norway about School. :headbanger:

It seems like this thread has moved away from the original subject. 

I just watch the last 48 hours of Kurt Cobain and thought that the Duff commentary was actually very interesting and very insightful.  He's not in just one scene...he's interviewed all through-out the entire movie.  also, this is the first time I've ever heard him talk in depth about sitting next to Kurt on the plane from LA to Seattle...days before Kurt died.  According to Duff, they got along fine and shared a few drinks on the flight.  Duff was even going to invite him over to his place...but Kurt took off before he could do that.

Much of Duff's comments relate to his own addiction problems and trying to shed some light on what Kurt was possibly going through. 

I think the thread moved away from 2008 and you found it!

But seriously, I do need to see this movie  : ok:

Yes, I think they both had drugs pushed onto them by people whom they thought they could trust/knew.
These people probably came across as being "attractive" for some reason.

agree, my fave, kurt was an amazing songwriter and singer. too bad he killed himself (or someone killed
him, as I think since all his close friends said, even if his stomach was so painful, he wasn't suicidal at all)

Yes, that's right, he had a child to live for.