Here Today... Gone To Hell!

For a little while I have turned a bit to the negative dark side.

I will admit this, but mainly its out of frustration and other things that have nothing to do with anything about Axl or Guns.


Here are some positives though. Things that I truly like and things that make Axl the amazing,unique person he is.

1. I love the fact Axl isn't a Media Whore. I think a big reason there will never be a HUGE STAR or band again is due to the overexposure element. Stars these days are in EVERY magazine, they are on EVERY TV show, they give every interview, they guest appear on EVERY record.

Just check the billboard charts and u will see guys on 4 or 5 different singles. The public gets burnt out and fickle real quick. U have to make them miss u and want more.? ?Axl has a mystique  surrounding him that u can't fake or buy. A big Reason to me is not only his talent and charisma but his ambiguity.

Stars were made back in the day due to the mystique factor and the way u got to know them was through albums,songs, Music.

now u hear there opinions on everything from politics to global warming to whatever............


2. His loyalty.? ?U can hear Record Execs screaming everywhere SEBASTIAN BACH? WHAT!!!!!?? he is a washed up 80's guy, U CANT HAVE HIM ON CHINESE DEMOCRACY......... U CANT SING ON HIS Album...... Axl however doesn't give a fuck about "THE COOL" thing to do cause he has and will always do shit HIS WAY and that makes him also very REAL and great. The fact he can say FUCK U to people who may criticize a decision and go with his heart and what he wants without fear of being trendy or cool or now.

That is very very rare to find in someone, especially and entertainer whose bottom line is usually how much cash they can make.

This is the reason we will never see a reunion.? Reunions: Motley Crue, Van Halen etc happen for one reason and that is money.

Axl has never seemed greedy or in it for the money. He is probably one of the most real people in music history and that is something we will never see again.


Do I agree with everything he has done or is doing? Of course not

Does that affect in anyway my loyalty or support?? NOT ONE OUNCE.


Overzealous fans sometimes drive me crazy but Axl is an original and one of the greatest frontman/musicians of all time but its more than his vocals,music and lyrics that make him great.? To see a guy stand up and be real and not sell out in a profession where it is unheard of not to and is expected, I think he deserves major love and credit alone for that.

I got bitching about that but then i realized. Axl isn't doing it to be a dick or to be a whatever. Thats just how he is. He wants the album "HIS WAY" he doesn't care about Record Label A&R guy and his deadline, He won't release something till he is 100 percent satisfied and I think that is great. Its HIS ART, HIS ALBUM, HIS VISION, so he shouldn't release it till he is 100 percent comfortable with it.

Same with the tour. Its not like Axl says "HAHAHAHA Im gonna make these bastards wait 2 hours" I don't think he is arrogant at all, Its just his mindset and what he needs to make things go the best they can.

There have been deadlines he hasn't met?

funny it sounds like a deadacated fan too me.

you sure change your mind a lot.  but i agree with a lot of what you are saying here.  good topic.

I don't really change my mind. I have never been Anti Axl. I get Anti overzealous fan that puts down the old members but my support for Axl doesn't go away.

I get aggravated, frustrated and every other word that ends with "ated" but u have to admire Axl for his refusal to do anything on anyone elses terms.

So by Axl being an asshole you admire him lol! I agreed with a lot of what you said earlier in the first post , but refusal to do anything on anyone else's terms is not something to be admired about.

I disagree.  When it comes to your own art, it shows the utmost respect for your art and the artistic process to do things your way and your way alone.  If the artist starts to listening to outside voices to the point where their views shape the art, then the art is compromised.

I think in the sense of artistic creation, refusal to do anything on anyone else's terms is to be greatly admired.

Ali

That makes no sense , refusal to anything on anyone else's terms just translates to being an asshole. If Axl wants to do things on his "own" term thats great become a solo artist. Guns N Roses is a band , and its a band effort if everyone "refused to do anything on anyone else's terms" than it would be pointless because everyone would argue for their own way.

No, it makes perfect sense. 

Slash once described GN'R's attitude as keeping one stiff leg out in front and not taking any shit from anyone.  Axl said that he caved in to pressure internally in Guns and externally in the press and the UYI albums suffered.

What I'm talking about is not compromising your ARTISTIC vision.  I'm not saying don't compromise on any matter, including interpersonal.  That would be acting like an asshole.

The band obviously is on the same page, so I think it's reasonable to infer that they share in an artistic vision that is likely led by Axl.

Protecting your art, your artistic vision and refusing to compromise on that does not in any way shape, or form translate to being an asshole.  It's called having artistic integrity.

Ali

I being a musician can really admire and respect Axl for his refusal to not GIVE IN to anybody's vision or opinion on who and what he should be. He is making music that he loves and is doing it how he wants to and won't let anyone hear it till his vision is 100 percent realized.

Fuck Time


Id rather the album be the way he wants it and hear it in 2012, th en get it in 2007 and it not be exactly how he intended it.

That is what I'm talking about.  There's a world of difference between saying, "I'm going to make this record the way myself and the band feel is right" and being an asshole.  The music is of his creation and he has the right, he has every right, to make it as he sees fit.

Ali

I think there's something to be said for not compromising one's vision.

I also think there's something to be said for realizing one peson alone may not have a clear vision or the wherewithall to get a project from start to finish.

Double edged sword...

 :beer: I think thats what I'm saying just better put.

I agree, it is a double edged sword.  But, my objection was to characterizing someone as being an asshole for not compromising their vision.  It may make them a pain in the ass to deal with, but it does not make for overtly hostile behavior indicative of an asshole.

Don't forget, that Axl has an extremely talented band with him and they all contribute to the making of the record, so they have assisted in the shaping of this record.

Ali

While not getting into semantics of the creative process or talent level of the musicians involved, one is unknown for the most part and the other is subjective so I'll steer clear.

Make no mistake, whatever comes out of it all will be the bi product of one man's creative vison, clear or not.

Tommy Stinson has said that everyone contributes to every song by writing their own parts.  Axl doesn't tell them what to play.  Also, doesn't the fact that "Better", one of the most well received of the leaked demos, was called a Robin song by Axl say a lot?  While I'll admit that the talent level may be subjective, but what isn't subjective is what's on those guys resumes.

I have no doubts that Axl is steering the creative vision.

Ali

Great post D!  That's fucking dead-on.  5 or 6 years ago I had haters telling me Axl was just in it for the money...ha, right.
Ignorant bastards.  Financially, he's probably sabotaged himself several times in the last decade, but artistically he's never compromised...not one fucking bit!   :peace:
 :beer:

That's the issue Ali, none of them have had any creative success so to speak.


Again, double edged sword.

How can you call Axl an Asshole, you don't even know the guy. ::)

Some really good points D, yeah I really don't think Axl enjoys the spotlight all that much.  And he certainly is his own man, does whatever he thinks is right even if EVERYONE disagrees.  It takes balls to stick to your convictions and he's not about to bow to anyone's rules.

My issue has never been with Axl Rose.

My issue was always with people trying to annoint the new band greater than the old before an album ever came out and to me that was/is ridiculous.

I have only had problems with other fans but never the actual band.

I think Tommy's solo record is fantastic.? I consider that a great success!? Richard has been a part of several cool bands, including Honky Toast, so has Frank.? I love Pitman's Lusk record.? Robin hasn't done a lot creatively so far, but I love what I've heard from his lead guitar playing.

I think Axl needs some balance as far as band leadership. It would be nice to have someone else making the band decisions in conjunction with Axl, but creatively, I trust Axl's vision will be great if and only if he fulfills it as he sees it.

Ali

I have that argument so many times with people :)  The response I've gotten varies from "look at what is written about him and what people say" to "you can take the sum of his actions to paint a picture of who he is".  The flaw, the big, fundamental flaw in that thinking is that we, the fans and public, only get a very small percentage of Axl's actions made known to us.  Therefore, to paint a picture of who he is based off such an inherently small percentage of his actions is utterly ridiculous and inaccurate.  You take any one person and if you were to judge them by a few, a small percentage of their actions, they could easily appear to be something they are not in reality.

Ali

Well I admire Axl Rose for the person he is and his love for music, his talent.  I like his attitude, its straight up, no bitching around, what you see is what you get.  I believe I hold a similar attitude myself.? I also ignore most of the crap on the internet about him, most of its bollocks from sad fans trying to clone him or building a website up from stuff we already know, amongst other google alerts etc.

Axl, dont ever change huni.

xx

No creative success? The Replacements? BTW, is it really necessary to quote 10 posts when only responding to one specific statement?

I just put one post in regarding the subject - I said what i think and like about Axl, simple as that, problem !!

Great post, i agree 100%

I would agree with that considering he did a recording session with Shaq. :nervous:

some of us just think this is a better band, and that shouldn't be a big deal.   just because some of us say things like 'fuck a reunion' doesn't mean we disrespect or dislike the original band.   we have just come to love the band as it is now and dont want to see it messed up.   

So question , if this band disbands or new members are once again brought in. Will you like the new line up , or will you still hold this one dear to you're heart? Also Axl did session work with shaq?

if this band disbanded and Axl got a completely new group of guys and I wasn't fond of them, one thing is for sure - I sure as fuck wont come to a GnR board everyday just to tell everybody i hate it.

It wasn't Axl, but just Dizzy and Paul Tobias. And it was more like jamming for fun, nothing serious.

Great post!

I sure didn't like when Robin went out to rejoin NIN back in '99... Just because I loved his rendition of SCOM solo. Bucket joined, but I wasn't as impressed...

Since then, Robin didn't really let me down with his playing. :)

His tropical shirt!  ;D

(see rare pics section)!

Hahaha.... yeah I agree with this.

While I'm really disappointed there's no album yet (or solid news about it), I genuinely like these guys in the band and don't come here just to complain about them.

Whether any of us 'like' or 'dislike' the members of this band, or any other band for that matter, do you really think they will get new band members that a small minority may like!!

Like the members or not they will play regardless to what few fans think of their members, there will always be a balance of fors and against !!

Waste of time belly aching over who likes who I think, the main thread was 'what I like really like about Axl'.  You either like GnR or not - simple.

 ::)

You don?t know that, neither you nor any of us are with them to know whether the band decissions are only Axl?s or a global agreement.

I agree with the loyalty and integrity part and knowing Axl is not in this for the money. Think about it people - if music is your life, at one point in time, even if you are making shit loads of money, you are going to say to yourself, if I am going to be doing this for a lifetime there has got to be more - whether that means going solo on artistic vision or taking 95,000 years to release an album. You have to do things to satisfy yourself at some point or you wind up unhappy.

Anyway, aside from his voice - I really love that about Axl. He has a unique, distinct voice, that I love, I love the fact that he is into new age healing. I think it's the wave of the future considering we are oversaturated with drugs from drug companies that often have side effects that make situations worse. And I've learned in life that tapping into your own inner strength is just about the most powerful thing you can do for yourself. I would love to discuss the techniques he uses.

I also love that he admits to his problems mentally. He seems just like one of the rest of us. Not that everyone suffers from psychiatric problems but knowing that he publicly admits he has issues to deal with makes it more real for me. I can understand some things better because I can relate.

Lastly, I like the fact that he has to consider the business side along with the creative side. Many new bands and stars don't think about this and get screwed over big time. And actually, as much as it sucks, you have to have business in mind to make a band work because it is so much more than just the music. Creative people and artists usually just want to work doing what they love and think the business will take care of itself or someone they trust with their business. In this day and age, there are very few people to trust and you must know something about the business so you don't  completely and ignorantly sign all your money away. Many of these reunion bands have done just that. They didn't manage their business end well enough to support them when their 15 minutes of fame was up, so they have to tour to make some money. Of course, some are rich and just doing it to get richer but I think most didn't plan the way they should have and wound up broke dick.

Take it sleazy folks! It's not what I really like about Axl, it's what I love!

agreed and tommy said axl was trying to make it democratic as possible...

Depends on how you look at it.

What the hell are you talking about?  Axl is the sole owner of the rights to the band's name!  Any decision involving Guns N' Roses must be signed off on by Axl.  He has the final say, whether you or anyone else likes it or not.

Ali

Tommy said that Axl was trying to make the songwriting process as democratic as possible, not the decisions involving the band's business.  Axl may get input from other members on that, but the final word is his as he  is the sole owner of the rights to use of the name Guns N' Roses.

Ali

I'm as bad as anyone when it comes to bitching about CD not being released yet, but I do agree with the original poster's ideas about Axl. The guy isn't doing what he does because he wants money. If money were all he wanted, he'd have whored out his music to all sorts of commericals, endorsements and movies.

No, Axl walks to his own beat. Sometimes it's frustrating for us fans that just want the record already, but you do have to admire the fact that he doesn't just crap out an album every 14 months or whatever, and he doesn't release everything he writes. Some stuff isn't as good as other stuff, and Axl seems to want only the stuff that's really good to be released.

didn't you say 'creativity'?
whatever we can't be sure about how things work inside a band we aren't IN.

It?s obvious he has the final say but what makes you think that he doesn?t take the band members?opinions into account?. We all know he has the rights and all that but we are not with them to know how they work or how they take decissions.

No shit we can't be exactly sure, but the plain fact of the matter is that Axl owns the rights to the name Guns N' Roses and the final say on any Guns N' Roses related activity has to be given by him.  I never said the ONLY say, I said the FINAL say.  I never said he doesn't listen to the other band members and get their input, only that despite whatever input the others may give, he has to give final approval because of his ownership of the rights to the GN'R name.

Ali

Again, I never said that he has the ONLY say.  I said he has the FINAL say.  Him having the final say says nothing about what path is taken in the decision making process to get to that place of what the final say on a GN'R matter is.

Ali

Axl is a genius. My friends and family all think i'm ridiculous because of how much I adore Axl Rose. He knew his band was going to break up and that he wouldn't be able to do what he had envisioned without the GNR name so he made everyone sign over their shares to him...I personally think that GnR belongs to him anyways because of how much he cares about what he does and has created. And thats the thing...Unlike other bands and musicians I don't think Axl has done anything for ANYONE but himself. And I think a lot of it has to do with proving his childhood wrong...and laughing in it's face...saying look at me now and look at what I've become. He obviously is effected by his childhood and thats why he just doesn't give a shit about the record labels and explains his ridiculous demands, but when he was younger and fame hit him hard he did get a little bit of an ego which is to be expected. He's never sucked up to the media he has always spoken his mind. I believe that he truly has worked on this record for 16 years because he won't release it until it's up to HIS standards. You see all these bands putting out a cd every year and look at what this shit has turned into. He was a young guy and the fame went to his head...then he left the public eye for a long time and came back a totally different person with a new band to make some money to finish the cd....he wasn't ready to be back yet...i think it was too much for him to handle at once...and this time he slowly worked his way back in by showing up at parties and then going on tour. And now he's on stage communicating and dancing with his bandmates which he never used to do...he cares about the fans...When I saw them in MPLS helmet was off the stage and GnR was on in 20 minutes...and it was great. He still doesn't put up with peoples bullshit, but he knows that without the fans...there is no GnR. And he is perfecting Chinese Democracy for himself and for us. And when it's released it's going to be fucking amazing...and for a man to find his groove like Axl has I think it's pretty damn impressive.

And I think just likes Sebastian Bach so much that he's helping him out and getting him back into the spotlight because the media won't give him the time of day because they're assholes. So Axl is using his power and popularity to help out Sebastian Bach.  I was soooo excited for Sebastians new cd and then when i found out that Axl was on three songs...I WAS SO MUCH MORE EXCITED. This thing is going to sell like hotcakes and it's going to get so much more spotlight just because Axl is on it resulting in Sebastian getting some long over due recognition.

I think the hardest thing for Axl was keeping a level head when the 'scene' was all around him.

For some reason when you said that it sparked me to listen to coma. It really reminds me of Axl's whole life just everything , the ending is amazing

Its so easy to be social
Its so easy to be cool
When you ain't got shit to lose

I think its safe to say he knows the ups and downs of life.  :beer: For Mr.Rose

Very nice post.  I completely agree.  People seem to think Axl's stringing us along for a multitude of reasons.  I want the album as much as anyone, but I'm willing to wait if Axl doesn't feel it's ready yet.  I think we're definitely headed in the right direction with the collaboration with Baz.  That should help get Axl back into the spotlight and fuel interest for the new Guns album, at least I hope.

I like Axl's taste in women and his music.  I say this because I'm staying on topic.

Axl Rose kicks ass.....period....no one else in the world sounds like him, not even after 20 years now.....no one gets even close in terms of vocal range and ability....(a little biased there, but you get my drift).....and the fact that he refuses to copy himself from one record to the next is a massive bonus for any fan....

he stuck it out this long when all he could have done is given into pressure and made peace with Slash and apologised and reunited....simple....but he didn't....he chose not to....and that alone makes me excited and i cannot fucking wait to hear what he has done musically over the last 10 years....

What I like about Axl in the past 5 years is how he exercised judgement and took his sweet time to come back to his original form, because clearly being out of the spotlight had left him out of style and out of touch and out of form. Now he has a style that is a better fit to the music and he's comfortable with it.

He doesn't do all things completely his own way, as much as we would like to believe that he gets away with it. Its ok to get help sometimes and listen to others and take heed to their opinions if you believe it helps you, if their intentions are sincere. Sebastchian has probably been the most important friend Axl has had the past couple of years and its helped Axl snap out of his seclusion and back into the spotlight. His willingness to work with a vocal coach to enhance and maintain his voice has been instrumental in making his shows on a level that they were in the Live Era days, which had not been apparents during his first couple of comebacks between 2000 and 2002.

It has been extremely inspiring watching him now in his mid-40s doing what he does on stage in his singing and peforming. He is truly showing that he is the Nolan Ryan of his sport of Rock music and pulls no punches (sorry Robin Ventura). The bootlegs sound better and better the more I hear of them and I only wonder what else he has in store considering the progress he has made recently.

MNW