Here Today... Gone To Hell!

ARLINGTON, Texas - A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off.

?It?s a slap in the face. It?s like, ?Oh, we?re sorry he died, but he?s gay so we can?t help you,?? she said Friday.

Wright said High Point offered to hold the service for Sinclair because their brother is a janitor there. Sinclair, who served in the first Gulf War, died Monday at age 46 from an infection after surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant.

The church?s pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons, said no one knew Sinclair, who was not a church member, was gay until the day before the Thursday service, when staff members putting together his video tribute saw pictures of men ?engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing.?

?It?s not that we didn?t love the family?
Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there.

?We did decline to host the service ? not based on hatred, not based on discrimination, but based on principle,? Simons told The Associated Press. ?Had we known it on the day they first spoke about it ? yes, we would have declined then. It?s not that we didn?t love the family.?

Simons said the decision had nothing to do with the obituary. He said the church offered to pay for another site for the service, made the video and provided food for more than 100 relatives and friends.

?Even though we could not condone that lifestyle, we went above and beyond for the family through many acts of love and kindness,? Simons said.

Wright called the church?s claim about the pictures ?a bold-faced lie.? She said she provided numerous family pictures of Sinclair, including some with his partner, but said none showed men kissing or hugging.

The 5,000-member High Point Church was founded in 2000 by Simons and his wife, April, whose brother is Joel Osteen, well-known pastor of the 38,000-member Lakewood Church in Houston. Now High Point meets in a 432,000-square-foot facility in Arlington, near Dallas.

Wright said relatives declined the church?s offer to hold the service at a community center because they felt it was an inappropriate venue. It ultimately was held at a funeral home, but the cancellation still lingered in some minds, she said.

this is so gay

I just hope these people get to heavan and find themselves surrounded by homosexuals. Then they can apologize to every single one individually for being such high-n-mighty hypocrites. But that's just my little dream.

How fucking ridiculous is that?  Unfortunately I'm not at all surprised.  :no:

I understand why many people would be upset, but this individual was not a member of their church.  He had never set foot inside.  Homosexuality is viewed as a major sin in most churches.  I'm not here to argue if it truly is, personally I don't care what two adults do with their lives.  But it's common knowledge that Christianity bars homosexuality, and to expect a church to hold services for an open gay man who's not even a member of their congregation is a bit unfair.

Would you expect the NAACP to hold a funeral for a person after they found out he was a member of the Ku Klux Klan?  Probably not. (and for the really slow ones, I'm not comparing homosexuality to racism.  I'm simply pointing out the conflict each represents to those groups charters and beliefs)

i guess that would called their own personal hell then

Walter, they canceled the service the day before it was supposed to be held.  That's pretty cold.

Also, you mentioned, "it's common knowledge that Christianity bars homosexuality," again, that's a pick n' choose like all religions.  The same exact passage that calls homosexuality an abomination also forbids followers to eat shellfish, and if your wife is not a virgin when you marry her, you are to stone her to death.  I'm not making that up.  So again, pick n' choose and it's too bad these f-heads can't pick tolerance.  :'(

I know the Bible quite well.? You're absolutely right that people pick and choose.? However, I repeat that it is common knowledge the the Church turns their nose at Homosexuality.? However they justify these opinions is not for you and I to decide.? Like all groups, they have a right to form their own beliefs.? I agree that it was somewhat cruel to pull the carpet out from underneath them the day before, but I also agree it was pushing the envelope for the family to include photos of sin for the funeral - they were kind of asking for it.? I don't care what the man did in his private life, but you can't expect a Church to deviate from its own values and beliefs for someone who wasn't even a member of their church.

Walter, you are correct.  Good rebuttal.  This statement:  "I agree that it was somewhat cruel to pull the carpet out from underneath them the day before, but I also agree it was pushing the envelope for the family to include photos of sin for the funeral - they were kind of asking for it."......you're right.  I let my emotions get the best of me.  Just because I don't see anything wrong with that particular lifestyle doesn't mean the church doesn't, or shouldn't.   :peace: 

At E-Harmony we don't allow same sex dating, so I can see where the Church is comming from.

Homosexuality is a sin, and to allow the corpse of a homosexual inside a sacred space would be an abomination.

What's next, men and dogs having sex?

I swear I seen you having sex with a goat.

ihave witnessed it as well.... though i saw him helping a herd over the fence one night.... it was like a car wreck you just couldnt help but watch...... i am still scared at night but images of him helping sheep....  :crying:

I think we should start a support group . Bound to be others that have witnessed this unholy acts.

Cause nothing helps one get over a problem like sitting and talking it over with coffee and old donuts. Then A group huge were we all cry.

wow what a shity thing to do


Peace

It is just another example of the hypocrisy of the church.

That is so fucked up even worse that its not far at all from me. I live about 45 minutes to an hour from there.

^My condolences.

thats pretty lame, the church shows itself as hypocritical in this to me.

Ok, two people have asserted this act as hypocritical, but have failed to justify that.  In what way is denying someone who lived an immoral life according to their standards a funeral hypocritical.  It would be hypocritital for the ACLU not to aide this man, but I fail to see how the church is a hypocrite in this.

I would say the hypocrisy comes into play when so-called christians choose to ignore the teachings of christ, who would not have supported this kind of blatant discrimination. 
and also to comment on the KKK/homosexuality comparison, that is really reaching.  you compare the two and in the same breath, say you're not??  which one is it?

I'm not trying to attack someone for their religious beliefs.  i come from an entire family of holy rollers so i would never try to convince someone their faith is based on fairy tales.  and in this circumstance with the church, it is a private organization and (unfortunately) they have the right to do what they want.  but they chose to condemn a dead man for his so-called sins, instead of honor him for the whole other parts of his life.  and to disrespect his family that way does not seem like a very christian thing to do.

I see the point Walter is trying to make, but think about this.....  the people who are honored at the church when they pass...do you think they are 100% innocent/good Christians.   How many of them have strayed from the teachings in the bible?  how many had pre-marital sex? how many have fudged their taxes or lied to their girlfriends/boyfriends about where they were last night.

is one sin worse than another?

What if it were Ted Haggard or Mark Foley?

i just think the whole treating people equal thing doesnt go when they discriminate someone like this, especially when they died.

Excellent point!  According to Christians themselves, we are all sinners.  So why is this man being denied a funeral because he is a sinner (according to this church) when in fact we are all sinners? 
Discrimination is discrimination, no matter which holy book is being used to justify it. 

Maybe this church has a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy? ?Well whatever the case he was a Navy Vet. R.I.P.
 
Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep;
Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea! ?Most Holy Spirit! Who didst brood
Upon the chaos dark and rude,
And bid its angry tumult cease,
And give, for wild confusion, peace;
Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea!

 
 
O Christ! Whose voice the waters heard
And hushed their raging at Thy word,
Who walked'st on the foaming deep,
And calm amidst its rage didst sleep;
Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea! ?O Trinity of love and power!
Our brethren shield in danger's hour;
From rock and tempest, fire and foe,
Protect them wheresoe'er they go;
Thus evermore shall rise to Thee
Glad hymns of praise from land and sea. ?

You of all people.  ::)

This guy is a vet, and perhaps these people inside the holy box should remember they may not have their church, if it weren't for people like him.

did Jerry Falwell just die and he was a known gay pedophile.    his church had a service for him.  :-\

Falwell? He spread the message of hate, but not of touching underage boyz. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

well one of those extreme right wing preacher guys, i could be wrong and it might not be him.  but theres no doubt many members of the cloth do such nasty shit.

dont even get me started on my theory on catholic priests..   :hihi:
 

Haggard maybe?

but hes "cured" now!!!   :rofl:

its just so fucking hypocritical how against homosexuality they are yet some of their top members are closet practitioners and even worse with CHILDREN!

If they want to be anti-gay, I don't really care.    Thats their choice, I'm not gay so I can't say it affects me, but its just funny that their very leaders are the people they should shun.

"You suck a dick you lose the Kingdom"

-Sam Kinison

The have sexual abuse insurance coverage now for their court payouts... :o

It really doesn't matter who you are. Religion is very hypocritical in that way. When a person dies, they should have a proper burial period. It doesn't matter what they did, who they were or whether they belonged to a certain church. If you believe in god, what does it matter what religion or church buries you? I wish their was one religion, tolerant of everyone, allowing people to worship in their own way. There wouldn't be so many problems in the world or prejudice. Religion spurs more than race.

Strange that they'll cancel it for this, but not for any other sins.  This is why I have trouble with organized religion.  The faiths rarely bother me, but the hypocrisy and arrogance trouble me greatly. :no: 

Can you imagine if the Catholic church canceled memorials for everyone who had ever worn a rubber or beat one out?   :hihi:

No one would be buried.  We'd all be dragged to the curb in hefty bags.

I didn't say I agree with or support the church's decision.  Hypocritical, bullshit or just plain wrong, we all know the Church's stance on homosexuality.  This man did his time, and hopefully has the marker that all vets are entitled to.  I'm just pointing out that you can't expect an organization that is known for their anti-stance on Homosexuality to bend over backwards for someone who was apparently open about their sex life and was not even a member of their congregation.

Obviously Religion wasn't that important to this man (specifically the practices of this Church) as he had never attended.  My question is why would his family want to hold services in a place that didn't codone the good life their son/brother lived?  There are many Christian churches that have no problem with homosexulaity; Episicipalion and Lutheran come to mind.

Personally I would have had no issue attending or supporting this man's funeral had I known him.  However, I can't denounce a group that has a clear agenda on an issue that was heavily pertinent to this man's life. 

Finally, rather than everyone call Christians hypocrites and denounce their beliefs, let me remind you that no one is making you join them.  Just like no one makes you join the Republican or Democrat party.  Considering that most people who are avidly against Christianity know little more than what is in The DaVinci Code or some other anti-religion commentary, I'd take such opinions with a grain of salt.

It is not about being "avidly against Christianity," it's about being against discrimination, hatred and bigotry, which runs rampant in the hearts of many so-called Christians who want to tell the rest of us how we should live our lives or we'll burn in hell.  Also, it is absurd to assume that anyone who does not agree with Christian doctrine must not know anything about Christianity.  I was raised in a Southern Baptist church and I also went through 12 years of religious study.  I believe that if you ask several of the other people in this thread who disagree, they were probably raised in similar religious traditions as well. 

Also, to make the argument that this man wasn't even a member of the church -- apparently that didn't seem to be a factor before they found out he was gay, so it shouldn't be a factor after they found it.

I not going to waste my time digging the passages up, but you know, all thoses verses in the NT about love, forbearance, humility, love thy neighbor, turn the cheek, ect ...

Sorta like, let they with no sin cast the first stone.

If you guys followed that this forum would be silent.   :o

what about you , sir? Are you without sin?

The arguments stated have skewed the facts that were mentioned in the original article.

The article states that he was not a member of the church, but he was a janitor there. Because he worked for the church, the church offered (the family did not request) to hold his service there. The man could not have been "openly gay" otherwise the church would not have offered in the first place. The family states in the article that the photos were family photos and no pictures showed men kissing or hugging.

He was good enough to hire. He was good enough to keep his employment (chances are his emergency contact on his work info was his life partner). He was a good enough man for the church to offer funeral services to.

I would be surprised if absolutely no one in the church (employer part) knew of his orientation- a life partner means a commited relationship, not a boyfriend du jour. I'm sure it was a case of Don't Ask/Don't Tell and turn a blind eye.

It was ok to have this man (who happened to be homosexual) clean the sanctuary and altar, but it would be an abomination to have the same man's casket rest there? Yes, it is a little hypocritical.

^^

Learn to read.  The departed was a brother of the janitor who worked there.

"learn to read"?!?!?.  Thats not very Christian of you....   :no:

The church's website does list the brother, Lee, as the janitor (darn, I really liked my argument too- time to brush up on the reading skills as Walter so charitably suggested). As with any story, the church lists a different reason for cancelling the memorial:

 "The issue was not whether we would hold a memorial service for someone in a lifestyle of sin. We have assisted many families in this regard. The issue was whether we would allow an openly homosexual service that celebrated and emphasized homosexuality in our church. We love the homosexual, but cannot condone the homosexual lifestyle. We could not allow homosexuality to be glorified in this house of worship. "

Memorializing the man was not the problem. The church objected to the style of the service. This is the same as supporting the troops, but not the war. It is unfortunate that the decision was made at the last moment.

"Wright called the church?s claim about the pictures ?a bold-faced lie.? She said she provided numerous family pictures of Sinclair, including some with his partner, but said none showed men kissing or hugging."

No, it's like supporting the war but snubbing the Navy. 

wow havent seen you in ages!...... just get out of rehab?