Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I'm ready to go...Waiting for my friend to pick me up...cause I'm already drunk...lol

 : ok:

have fun dude

dunno the set list, but they played Patience...

 : ok:

seriously?

thats awesome  :yes:

That is courtesy of MyGNR.

22 full songs and 8 from the new album. It is nice to see them extend the shows from the 15 song hour and a half that they had been doing for a couple of years now. This is definitely an awesome setlist. Hopefully they will keep it up and maybe rotate some different songs in and out to keep it fresh.

Hopefully we can get a hold of a bootleg of this one. : ok:

1,100th post

wow now im even more excited to see them in September  ;D

holy shit!? bad ass!

That is one of the best setlists I have seen at a non GNR show.  Wow!!!  Interstate Love Song and Patience?  Maybe they had to up the antee with AIC on board with all their hits.

why are they adding more GnR songs to their setlist?  ::) 

Its people like you that get annoying , if you don't like VR don't post. Why are they adding more GnR songs because last time I check Slash and Duff played an instrumental role in making those songs.

dont worry about my posts.   

slash said they were dropping the GnR songs all together, and now they are playing a song that both him and Duff supposedly never wanted to record in the first place.   : ok:

Axl said CD would be out in '02. Key word supposedly , you don't know what the band went through or who wanted what. If you dislike VR why come to this part of the board?

this has to jack shit to do with Axl.  Stop bringing him into this.

I heard about this as well. But those songs fit  in the show, don't seem like "hey let's cover GNR" for the sake of covering GNR.  :peace:

Awesome fucking setlist  :o

wow that is an amazing setlist....Hopefully it stays the same tonight

holy hairy whore!

i need to hear patience with scott, did he whistle? :hihi:

not the first time slash said something and act the opposite right ?
but it's a bit strange yes. maybe they need the guns fanbase to sell tickets...
anyway i'm interested in listening this patience cover of course.

anyone have some audio or video of interstate love song?

-1



Patience?

Maybe next leg they can add Paradise City. I heard it's a great way to end a show.




/jarmo

I always thought Patience would be a good GNR song for scott to sing vs. UTLH.

I think cause they are on tour with a huge band they need to bring on some  more of their hits so they stand out as a headliner.

But Patience isn't their hit.

Nobody associates that song with Velvet Revolver.





/jarmo

patience and interstate love song..........now i feel really shafted, should have got tickets  :P

But they do associate it with it's members...

When they play those STP and GNR songs it is not like they are doing anything that artists like Roger Waters, Paul McCartney, Sebastian Bach, Robert Plant & Jimmy Page, and countless other acts haven't done by playing songs they were a part of writing even though they aren't in said band anymore. 99.8% of the general public want to hear those songs and see the people who helped write them play them, they aren't concerned they aren't in those bands anymore or touring under that brand name. It is not like those guys ceased to be apart of those songs just because they are doing different things now.

We can debate about the covers issue all we want, but it is not like they are hiding from playing their new material. 8 out of 12 songs from the new album is about as much new stuff as any act out there is playing, so it is not like the new covers have come at the expense of playing their new stuff. 22 songs is pretty darn good, and I think more fans probably left the shows last night thinking how cool the show was and not pissed off that they were playing covers from their previous bands.

and none of the shit 'GNR' is playing is theirs , except for the same 4 leaks,  so what's the difference... I m glad they play patience, cant wait for the show in OCT

One has the GNR brand name, the other does not. That is the difference.

Very well put

Jarmo, I agree...  but, they are giving the fans what they want...  A long as show, filled with hits from their previous bands...  22 songs is your money's worth! 

My point was AIC has a ton of big hits...  They had a good amount of Albums.  VR's catolague is not that big, so for them to add 2 new gems like Patience and Interstate Love Song is really cool! 

I saw ZZ Top play "Foxy Lady" the other night cause Hendrix loved Billy Gibbons and Billy was a fan of Hendrix... 

Its okay, nobody was hurt and everyone probably loved it!

oh yeah...and by the way, there was only 5000 people attending the show...So all the Axl-haters journalists can suck on that.  GnR filled up in Quebec city in November without Slash...lol

Basically, who needs who?

[quoteso for them to add 2 new gems like Patience and Interstate Love Song is really cool!]

A review of the show I read said those were done as an acoustic type set midway through the show. I suspect they are doing that as a way of taking a break without taking a break because those aren't the hardest songs in the world to play and aren't very taxing vocally. I hope someone has some audio out there somewhere.

Locked and loaded
Velvet revolver hits target with new material and old hits
T'CHA DUNLEVY, The Gazette
Published: 26 minutes ago

Rock history can be revived - and revisited - in many ways. Velvet Revolver brought its arena-rock cross-pollination to the Bell Centre Theatre last night before a crowd of 5,000.

The group is a combination of Guns N' Roses veterans (Slash, Duff McKagan and Matt Sorum) with former Stone Temple Pilots leader Scott Weiland. In the opening slot was '90s grunge act Alice In Chains, with newcomer William DuVall taking the place of the band's late singer Layne Staley, who died in 2002 of a drug overdose.

Velvet Revolver has been at this for a while. The group is now touring for its second album Libertad, the follow-up to 2003's Contraband. The new release finds the band further refining its disparate influences - Weiland's alt-rock pomp and GNR's balls-out rawk.

The mixture went down smoother this time around. The songs on Libertad exhibit a more carefree attitude, which carried over into last night's show. While the band was equally animated in its 2005 Bell Centre appearance, last night everything just seemed to gel more, as if, with two albums under its belt, Velvet Revolver is finding its groove.

That groove is deeply rooted in over-the-top rock 'n' roll. Weiland has never been one to hold back, ditto for his GNR comrades. To wit, yesterday's set (immediately preceded by NWA's Straight Outta Compton blasting over the PA) began with the wail of Slash's guitar, leading into the turbo-charged liftoff of the new album's first song, Let It Roll.

"Montreal! We are Velvet Revolver and we always will play motherf---in' rock 'n' roll," Weiland howled, a few songs in.

The banter continued a while later: "For those of you who watch too much American Idol, that's not what you're going to get here. If you're offended by what you hear or what you see, you're not going to get a refund."

With that, his shirt came off and the band was into Big Machine, the fifth in a string of songs off its first album. It was an empty taunt - there was little offensive about this show, unless you find classic rock shenanigans to be an assault on moral rectitude.

Catering to the nostalgic in the audience (of which there were many), renditions of a couple of songs from each of the STP (Vasoline, Interstate Love Song) and GNR (Patience, It's So Easy) back-catalogues were played, many during a mid-show acoustic set. These drew some of the biggest cheers - proof that new material is nice and all, but fans love to hear the old hits.

Alice In Chains sounded solid in its early set, but there was something (or someone) noticeably absent from the band's performance. A big part of the group's mystique was embodied in Staley's troubled persona. Without him, despite DuVall's best efforts, and the presence of original guitarist Jerry Cantrell, drummer Sean Kinney, and bassist Mike Inez (who joined in 1993), the performance came off as little more than a well-meaning tribute concert.

tdunlevy@

thegazette.canwest.com

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...b5-bb35574ee36e  (http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...b5-bb35574ee36e)

Actually it is quite different. Almost all the people you mentioned above sang in their respective bands, so people expect them to sing the songs they have always done. Scott was not the vocalist in GNR so no one wants to hear him sing those GNR songs. If they were doing instrumental versions of those songs then that would be great, but they aren't.

they play Guns N Roses songs at a Guns N Roses show.   but again, GnR has nothing to do with this topic.

Nice to see a longer set list. I think this is the longest set that the band has played. Would love to see a recording of this show appear. Get set with awesome songs.

People on a GNR board aren't happy that another band is covering a GNR song?? :confused:

This is the Velvet Revolver forum. Why bring Axl/GNR into it?

Awesome news!! I hope we can get some media from patience soon  :peace:

Don't understand why people are talking shit about this! To those who talk shit, Fuck you!

Succinctly put. :)

Why would anyone be happy that that talentless hack is "singing" a GNR song?

As much as Patience in any form sung by any person absolutely makes my ears bleed, not sure if the " talentless hack" comment is any kind of fair unbiased of educated characterization.

the guys have the right to play any guns song it's not a problem.
but they said they'll stop to play them but they don't + they add a new
one to their setlist...

kind of strange, hmm ?

this setlist is awesome! 22 damn great songs... I can?t wait to see these guys!  :peace:

and for people complaining in this section about the setlist... I?ll give you the same advice as you do so many times in the GN?R section: these songs are for people who go to the shows... not for people sitting on their computers to complain about, and I?m pretty fucking the people who went to this gig loved it (Patience included).

-1


I'm sure the VR fans appreciate me giving out warnings for all the people who keep bringing GN'R and Axl into this section all the time.  : ok:





Poor confused person. This is a Guns N' Roses site.

Nowhere is it implied that we have to support everything all the other bands do.

We support Guns N' Roses.

If they play Guns N' Roses songs at their shows, I don't see the problem. But if other bands craving to have their own identity adds more Guns N' Roses covers to their set, and it happens to be one of the most known hits, expect some people to raise an eyebrow.


You really need to understand the difference between coming to a GN'R site to bash the band and coming to a GN'R site to point out the fact that VR are adding more GN'R covers to their set.


Please stop thinking this is a VR shrine. It's not.

The VR shrine is here (http://www.velvetrevolver.com/).


/jarmo

Believe it or not there are people in this world who like a band for more than just the lead singer. Slash became a cultural icon because of his work in GNR. People will always want to see him play the GNR music they love that he played on. As that review said, it was a fun nostalgia thing. People do expect them to play some of those songs, even though the ex-GNR members weren't the singer. With 3 ex members at least musically it is going to sound like what GNR songs sound like, and no one cares that Scott is singing them because it is cool to see Slash playing guitar. Just as when they play some of the STP songs no one cares that it is Scott and a band full of guys not STP sounding exactly like STP.

To argue that it is alright for singers and not others who helped write the songs is ridiculous. The principle is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with members of an ex-band playing covers of their old songs in concert. Were they to be recording studio versions and whatnot, then that definitely crosses the line. Giving the audience a nice blend of new material and the nostalgia they love though is hardly a crime.

I personally am happy those guys play a few of those songs. I never got to see the old band play, so it has been exciting to have been able to see Axl, Slash, Duff, Matt play the GNR songs which are my favorite songs (as they are my favorite band). I am not concerned with brand names and who owns what, I just know it is neat to be able to see the musicians who made my favorite songs play them live. The same goes for when they play the STP songs. They had a great run of popular songs through the 90's, and they are still played a ton on the radio today. Sexy Type Thing was one of the most fun songs of the entire VR concert I saw 2 years ago.

They have handled this the right way. It would be foolish to think that they don't have fans who got into them based on their past work. They also have fans who weren't really into either band I would guess. By playing 2/3 of their new album mixed with the GNR/STP stuff they are giving everyone in the crowd a little something. A 22 song set gives you plenty of freedom to make everyone happy as you can support your new material while offering a little nostalgia for everyone.

That model has worked for every artist I mentioned who use the same equation in regards to their new material mixed with their old bands favorites. The only people who would try and argue that it is somehow different in this case from every other act that has done a similar thing are those that feel the only member of the band that is important or relevant is the lead singer, regardless of how much was contributed by others in their old bands. History has shown that view point to be short sited and not accurate thankfully.

So you don't have any problems with them adding more covers to their set even though the lead guitarist clearly has stated they'd do otherwise?

You seem like one of those "objective" fans who see things the "way they are", but yet this doesn't cause any reaction from you.

I just wonder why.....





/jarmo

i just find it ironic that neither slash nor duff had

A. anything to do with writing the song Patience
B. didn't even want to record it
C. One of both of these guys have stated their desire to stop playing GNR/STP tunes

yet now they are playing it  :-X

When did I bash Guns N? Roses??  ??? ??? I would be fucking stupid to bash my favourite band but alright then... if you say so... :-X
And what?s with that VR shrine thing? This is the VR section of a Guns N? Roses board isnt?t it? At least I thought so... what?s so wrong in defending the band when I think people ain?t being fair? I can?t? Or just cos this is a Gn?R board I have to sit still and watch, with the mouth shut, people being unfair and bashing the band all the time? I can?t do it? It ain?t allowed? I?m doing exactly the same thing I would do for Guns... react when I think people ain?t being reasonable. It?s just my opinion... its value is the same as anyone else?s on the board so I think I have the right to speak my mind.
And once again... if I wanted to leave and go to the VR board I would have done it a while ago, so there?s no need to showing me the link...  :no: As I said before, I?m not a VR fan but a Guns N? Roses fan, but that doesn?t mean I can?t like, enjoy, support and defend Velvet Revolver whenever I think I should. But then again, all this discussions end up in nothing so... whatever.

I can't wait to see the singer who wrote Patience (since I can't name him, because it's a VR section) come to Montreal play the real thing here,  song that Velvet Revolver (I name the band since it's a VR section) played here yesterday...

 :rofl:

Pesonally I would prefer not to hear the covers from any of the band members pasts for now.

However, dwelling on a change of mind/heart to have them a part of the setlist seems to a waste of energy.

Fans in general seem to appreciate them, why have a problem with it?

Actually, Izzy wrote most if not all of Patience, so if your talking about him, Im not sure if he has any plans to play in Montreal soon.

Jarmo, you'd make a great republican.  Or a good politician.

Yeah you are write....But u understand what I meant..;)

I'd wager Velvet Revolver doesn't give a flying fuck what people who aren't their fans think of this setlist. ? :D

In another forum, some people pray that they play WTTJ.

THAT, I don't wanna see .

Scott Weiland singing WTTJ.

I could be wrong, but that idea is SO wrong.... :crying:

I tried explaining the difference in between whining about a GN'R setlist on this GN'R board and mentioning how this VR band are adding more GN'R songs to their set on this GN'R board.

If you really try hard enough, I bet you can see that there's a difference.



Neither do I.

But it's funny how Slash says one thing and the opposite happens with no reaction from the VR fans. :D




/jarmo

actually since then they changed their minds on the matter


Now i don't call myself a fan of VR though i like some songs and they were pretty cool live, I'm a fan of duff and i like slash when he's onstage. You know my opinion on the "new" GNR so what i say next is not a bash.. I don't get what's wrong with a band playing some songs that the crowds knows and love, that's IMO a great thing..
I know a braided red-head that does that exact thing and there's people who prais him for it then bashes VR for doing it, and there's people who does the same but opposite.

Thank you all.

it's like when he said he never went to Axl's house that night couple of years back....

Just to say he did... couple of months after

that's what some VR fans call integrity  :hihi:

why not.sure velvet revolver is more gnr than than the new gnr are.its axl with a BUNCH OF HIRED MUSICANS that could get the sac any minute,hence the word NEW gnr.ha wouldnt mind see vr do paradice city.actually a few months back slash duff and matt played on camp freddy with the singer from linkin park,thay played paradise city and it was way better than any version the new gnr have done.awsome set list by velvet revolver.cant wait to see them live again with the new album of fresh material.

after that i stopped reading, "new" GNR is band with 8-9 Current GNR members VR is a band with 2 exmembers... and a former employee :hihi:

no the current gnr is a band with 6-7 hired muscians and 1 original.the hired members have not wrote any of the appeitte or illusion material that they play at every gig and thay can be fired at any minute.sure just look brain walks out frank walks in.same thing could happin tommorow with 1 of the 3 guitar players.

Everyone always forgets Dizzy...Axl and Dizzy, two original members.

please go away

no dizzy is not a original member.check ur facts before u post.

click here, my friend  :beer:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?action=logout

Well, he joined in '90 or '91...didn't replace anyone...didn't get replaced...close enough for me.

We don't need your kind here. Which is even more apparent after this post.




/jarmo

Not only that, but he was suppose to join the band before Appetite came out but couldn't after he severely injured his hand in a car accident. That's why Axl dedicates a song to him at I believe the Music Machine '86 show...

I was at the concert last night and it was amazing, and yes Patience was amazing, the vocals still need a little practice, but tehy'll get there in time just like Scott's vocals for It's So Easy and Brownstone have really improved. Instrumentally this version of Patience was a lot better than any time I have heard it performed by Axl's GNR, was more bluesly and flowed better.

Patience was played as part of a semi-acoustic set along with The Last Fight and Interstate Love song...all three songs got huge pops (The Last Fight less so cause it is a new song). The semi-acoustic set has been suggested by alot of fans on a VR fansite, which VR frequent and have messaged on. I doubt they read this board cause the webmaster is so insecure he now has to put VR in the ex-gunners folder cause they generate as much readers as the GNR topics.

As for VR playing those 3 GNR and STP songs I see nothing wrong with it. Patience was an Izzy and not Axl song and I don't ever remember Slash or Duff saying they didn't want to record that song. They also played an awesome version of Wish you Were Here, but I guess that's wrong too? But yet it's kewl that Kelly Clarkson sung Sweet Child of Mine before and Courtney Love sang Paradice City?

Bottom line is it was a great setlist and a really rocking concert and I love it and so did alot of other fans there last night on a setlist that was dominated from material from their new album. They played on the songs listed on the standard version of Libertad except 4 of them and played half of Contraband.

I knew somebody would say that.  :rofl:




/jarmo

Nothing wrong with stating the truth, and it is your board and your choice.

Dizzy is not an original member.

Dizzy is a psedo original member....he was supposed to be in the original line-up but broke his hand or something so he didn't join the group then and then they crossed paths again in 1990.

Your version of the truth is weird:

Top Boards

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Now let's examine how you made yourself look clueless:





/jarmo

omg... why did u do it??  :o Ok... I guess I?m kinda shocked. But then again, guess I?m too naive to still believe in things... how stupid of me  :no: But hey! At least you didn?t delete the whole section. Thanks!  : ok:
oh well.... :-\

To make sure everybody knows that the former members current activities are not the main focus of this board.

They're only intended for those Guns N' Roses fans who are interested in seeing what the former band members are currently up to.




/jarmo

But why in this world having a Velvet Revolver section in the Wasnt Yesterday Great board would do the other way around? Damn... I?m really dissapointed... not that you?d care of course... I?m just one of many people that come here everyday to hang out with people who supposedly had the same tastes and likes... This is just sad. I know you don?t give a shit but I think this ain?t the right way to do things! You can?t just shut people up! This is sad and with the way things are turning up I guess many people will end up leaving this board... And again, you don?t care about that and that?s what is sadder. After this, I?ll consider my staying in here (not that many people, including you I?m sure, will be to concerned about).

Sad... just sad.  :no:

The original band is the Appetite lineup



They can play Izzy songs if they want and VR can play all the GNR songs they want cause 2 members Duff and Slash had a lot to do with it.


Duff and west wrote Its So easy so one could argue Axl is covering a Duff song

Izzy wrote the lyrics to Brownstone if Im not mistaken and I think Slash did a lot of the guitar shit, so really Slash and Duff have just as much right as Axl to use it.

Paradise City if they WANTED to do it is OK also cause Slash and Duff wrote a HUGE part of that song as well


one more question:

HOW THE FUCK DO U COVER YOURSELF?


Thats as fuckin stupid as back some years ago when the record label tried to sue John Fogerty for Plagarising himself.

I'll tell you what's sad. A bunch of VR fans coming to this site to bash Guns N' Roses.

I mean, this is a Guns N' Roses site.

That's sad, but it doesn't upset you. What upsets you is the fact that I moved the VR section.

Weird priorities.


You're right, if those people I mentioned above leave this site, I really don't care.





/jarmo

Axl said he would'nt play Don't cry anymore but he did... Slash said they wouldn't play more Guns songs. People changes their mind, you seem like one of those "objective" fans to.

I just wonder why......

Why not? Coz they do what they want to do, I guess, which has always been the way.

Show me proof where he said he would never sing Don't Cry again. I've seen it said time and time again and no one can ever provide any evidence as to where he said it. I can provide proof that slash said he wouldn't do gnr songs again, so now it's time to prove Axl said he wouldn't do that song.

Neither is Wish You Were Here. Who cares? Everyone plays covers at their gigs, especially ones they originally played on. No big deal. Its nice too see them add some surprises to the setlist.

I have no problem VR playing songs Slash and Duff were apart of


I will admit however, that it seems they are doing this to help attract more concertgoers to maybe help boost sagging ticket sales.

Well I ain't got any proofs, I just read something like that sorry if I'm wrong! Axl made a satement that the release date would be anounced soon when Buckethead leaved the band but he didn't! I just wanted to say that people change their minds. Their is nothing wrong with playing great music and be able to hear the real guitar player and bass player doing "their" song again is amazing news to me! I'm music fan and I like when people plays good music.

Allright I don?t get you and you don?t get me... at least that?s straight up.
Yeah, I?ll tell the truth: I?m a VR fan undercover who instead going to VR fan boards (which would be way smarter and healthier btw) decided to come up here, to bash the new GN?R band (which I have never done) and have seen live already(and, for the record, loved the show) and its singer (named Axl Rose), which I hate to death despite having 4 full posters of that person in my bedroom (what a mad girl I am indeed). Leaving the irony apart, what?s wrong with me then? I?m no VR fan, I?m a Gn?R fan but I got a damn great flaw! I don?t despise the old guys... I do the opposite! I respect them! So... it?s kinda obvious you would feel comfortable going to a GN?R board and feel free (IN THE RIGHT SECTION- cos in no fucking way you have seen me talking about Slash or whoever in the GnR section) to talk about the old guys and their current work without feeling that one?s doing something wrong! If I had to leave this board, I?d go to another Gn?R board, not a VR one... thats not them I love, that I?m a fan of! It?s fucking Guns N? Roses! But if you can?t talk in a free and distressed way about all the things related to it (ex-members included)... how come you enjoy what being a GnR fan is, at its fullest?
But again, what?s sad is that you don?t even try to get to what I?m saying... you simply label me as a VR fan... it?s far easier indeed.

So? That's good for them and good for the atracted people. If someone don't want to listen to the music can skip it. It's good for everybody except the people who disslike the song Patience.

who the hell care why the add the song?


I think all the people bitching about the set list should just shut he fuckup.

Velvet Revolver Montreal -Patience part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_GVwvlj4wY

Velvet Revolver Montreal -Patience part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADDiUXePoRE

Velvet Revolver Montreal -Patience part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiBapfAhXRg

I feel exactly like you!

thanks for posting, so it wasn't scott who whistled :hihi: he should learn the melody, cool anyway :yes:

This is fucking great!  :peace: Awesome version  : ok:

Honestly, I don't know what your problem is.

I moved a section to make sure EVERYBODY knows this is a GUNS N' ROSES board.

I didn't think a GUNS N' ROSES fan would have a problem with a VELVET REVOLVER section being moved.

(Yeah, yeah, you're fan of both I get it).





/jarmo

that was just putrid.  awful vocals.   

The worst part was the ending. Scott does not have the range to do the high parts at the end of the song. Slash's solo wasn't the best either. I've seen him do much better with that solo.

Ok... I give up. I?m wasting words on this and it seems useless... you don?t even try. Did you even bother reading what I write? Nevermind...  :no:

That was amazing, I was getting worried as the music was leading up to the vocal part, but what a relief when it sounded good. The ending didn't sound bad, but it definitely did sound lackluster compared to the original. In my opinion, I believe they do the song justice, and I am envious of everyone getting to see them perform this.

fucking hell that rendition of patience rocks!? :beer:

It was much better than I thought it would be, had a cool vibe to the song too, and the sound quality was pretty good.

It's really hard to follow your rambling there.


Something about Axl posters and not despising the old members.

The funny thing is that just because I think some of them constantly say stupid shit and their music is boring doesn't mean I despise them. No matter what you tell yourself.


If the fact that I moved a section upsets you that much, I bet you get used to it over time.




/jarmo

Jarmo, I just don't understand why you post so much in the VR section, besides finding new ways to justify and rationalize your hate of the band, or should i say "dislike".  It'll make it a lot easier and calmer if you just let it be without fuelling more arguments over whether they deserve to cover GNR songs, or how much the new album sucks or how big of an asshole Weiland is.   All your doing is inciting the type of arguments that cause New GNR bashing to retort VR bashing, and its an endless cycle of dissing bands and musicians that many of us like and respect.  The 2 bands aren't mutually exclusive, one could, and many do, like both.  Whereas you feel that if one likes VR, therefore its a fact that they hate New GNR and should "Fuck off" and discuss VR on another board.

Those three sentences above sum it all for me. That?s what I wanted to know. Thank you!  :peace:

It just came to my mind that it is completely useless to argue with you... it?s just a waste of time. You have all things formatted on your head and whatever others say, you automatically have your answer and don?t even, by a second, stop to contemplate other?s opinion. I thought I could handle this but I can?t... its way too overwhelming now to simply ignore it all. I?m done with this. It?s sad. To be completely honest I liked this place... a lot... until this point.

What's sad is that I made a decision based on things that have taken place and I presented the reasons, it was very clear why I did it and most people have no problem with that, except you.

You on the other hand make it personal. It's all about you and your posters and the kind of fan you are.

No consideration to the fact that the most popular section of this site is dedicated to GN'R or the fact that GN'R events generate the most traffic and excitement on this board.


None of that matters, what matters is that you are sad and you shouldn't have to feel guilty about posting about how much you love VR.




/jarmo

I am upset at your lack of respect for us. I AM a GNR fan and a VR fan (yes you can be fans of both) and many people probably are. I was a huge fan of the original GNR lineup and I am a fan of the Nu GNR (not as much so, but I still am). What was nice about this board (and that option is still somewhat there although you have to go through more steps) is that you could read the latest news on 2 of the bands you liked and followed from the same site. Whether you ?choose to admit it or not many GNR fans are interested in what VR is doing, as are many of the STP fans. There is nothing wrong with liking music from multiple bands.

What is weird is if all the GNR topics are so cutting edge and current, why do you spend so much time posting in a section of a band you truly dislike? Guess some people have too much free time... :peace:

What the fuck are you on about?




/jarmo

The fact that you dismiss there are people that like both bands. Of course you couldn't read the rest of my post to get that or maybe you did and had to argument for it so you just swear...Great comeback  : ok:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=48240.msg983803#msg983803

I never did, you fucking liar.

Let's see you apologize.



We just don't need certain type of VR fans on this site. The miserable ones who hold a grudge.




/jarmo

Are you that sure about it? Just me? Only me? Damn... I must be having a really bad day then  :(

I hold no grudges, but I won't apologize...you're the one that holds the grudge by refusing to give the same amount of attention to any VR news items as you do to anything guns or ex-guns member (other than VR) related. Like I said before it is your board and your choice, but shit at least be honest and have a little credibility.

dude, the focus here is GUNS N ROSES.   say it with me.  GUNS N ROSES.

Really???

i had no clue. I thought I was on a boys 2 men fan site.

Why exactly should I do that?

They have time and time again wished to be given their own identity while talking shit about GN'R.


Can't be more honest than that. Also, credibility and VR don't mix.  : ok:

If I had no credibility, I'd be trying to get al the VR fans to come here and have leaks posted for all to enjoy.



This is a Guns N' Roses site and VR is not GN'R.

I lost interest in that band.

I don't pretend to like them to be "online buddies" with you and get more visitors.





/jarmo

Why are some people focusing on how bad VR are then?

I came on hear trying to find news about the show and get stuck in a cock fight :hihi:

So... you lost interest in the band. I assume by the time u created the Velvet Revolver section you had some interest in it. So, now you don?t anymore and what does happen? It is moved into  a sub-forum. So... who is making this personal? (You on the other hand make it personal. It's all about you and your posters and the kind of fan you are.) Me or you?
This is end of discussion for me... but to finish I advise you to give a look at my stats and check in which section most of my posts were made so that you can see how wrong you are by calling me a VR fan.

Peace. :smoking:

Yes, I thought they were fun to see live before I saw the real deal.





So you want to force me to post VR news on the site even though I have no interest or motivation to do that?

You want to make me to make this board to be about a band I don't really care about?


The subforum thing is completely different from the fact that I don't feel like promoting VR on the main site anymore.

I stopped posting VR news ages ago for the reason.

I moved this section to make sure the few clueless VR fans would understand that this is a Guns N' Roses site. Just to avoid confusion.



Maybe you have more site suggestions for me? In that case, feel free to post it in the feedback section.


/jarmo

great post : ok:

people change their mind dude...don think to hard about it.....how many times has axl?   a video of patience turned up on Youtube......it was fucking awesome 8)

THat version of Patience is Fuckin Excellent!!

I hate fuckin hypocrisy

U guys can bitch all u want about supposed VR only fans talkin shit in the GNR section but U guys spend more time in the VR section than I do and I am a HUGE VR fan.


For the record on ISE and Patience *the regular parts not the wailing parts*, I think Scott sounds amazingly similiar to Axl.

Slash's solo is the best solo in it I've heard since he last did it on the Illusion tours.

For fuck's sake!

#1 - This is a Guns N' Roses site.
#2 - It's not required for Guns N' Rose fans to like Velvet Revolver.
#3 - Some GN'R fans do, some don't.
#4 - People who come to a Gn'R site to talk shit about GN'R are obviously on the wrong fucking site in the first place.





/jarmo

I agree but why do GNR fans come to the VR section to start and talk shit?

Isn't it kind of the same thing u despise happening in the GNR section?

Since you quoted me D i wonder if you by guys mean me too? if so what the fuck are you talking about?

Sorry CheapJon

was talkin directly to Jim Bob about his Scott hating.  His vocals are awesome on that boot.

well, was it Guns N Roses that played in Montreal or Velvet Revolver because the topic seems to be about the Montreal show VR played and your talking about talking shit about GnR who were not in Montreal......so why would you want to tak sht about GnR in this topic ?? ???

Cause VR played another "GNR" song in concert even though the guys who played it had just as much to do with its creation as Axl.

There are some songs VR can't play live.

November Rain *cant do it*
Estranged *cant do it*
Sweet Child O Mine *cant Do it* Scott singing about Axl's ex wife would be weird*

To me songs like:

Its So easy
Brownstone
Patience

I have no problem with


I am not a big fan of Used To Love Her by either band as that has to be the corniest/Cheesiest GNR song ever.

so i'm not allowed to dislike VR's take on Patience?   

And if you think thats the best version of Patience since the Illusion tours you obviously weren't at the Hammerstein last year on May 17th when Izzy joined them.    Robin in particular did an amazing job on the guitar, and always has since he joined the band.

Scott has no place singing this song, in my opinion.  He makes up his own melodies and its annoying.   

I don't hate everything about VR.  I quite enjoy the song, Let it Roll.

Slash's solo is the best solo

Its more true to the album version and I dig the album version of the solo alot.


If u want to hear a horrible version of Patience check out Patience from RIR 3 or Patience where RObin or somebody fucked it up. : ok:

So Jarmo, why don't you adhere to the forum rules?

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=14144.0

Instead of just banning people who won't accept the rules, you choose to engage in a verbal fight. This is something that should be kept on PM level, according to the rules. Instead, you contribute to take the debate completely off topic. Totally understandable when you have the chance to simply explain in one post that "any more protests and you're out". ?Also, you choose to call another another poster "a fucking liar". If that's not an insult then I don't know what is (it might be true, for all I know, but it's still an insult) - again, violation of your own forum rules.

What's the point in having rules if you don't ban the people that violate them, and equally important, stick to them yourself? It just doesn't make any sense to me. If the thread is called "Montreal show" I want to read about the show and related issues ("subjects evolve, that's understandable"). What we have in large parts of this thread has nothing to do with the show. Cut the crap!


To the people who haven't yet opened their eyes: This is Jarmo's forum. If you want your rules to count, start your own fucking discussion forum. Jarmo owes us nothing, just the same as Axl doesn't owe us an album and VR doesn't owe us this or that song on the setlist. (Neither do any current or previous member of GNR owe us the truth through interviews or whatever, and they are free to change their mind whenever they want.)

What I do expect is that the owner of the forum adheres to his own set of rules. I suspect that Jarmo has just forgotten about them in the heat of the moment. I beg you, instead of ruining the threads with off-topic fights, take it on PM with the persons involved or simply kick them out.

Nothing in this post is untrue, so there is really no reason to discuss it further, but everyone should take this to heart.


NOW, BACK ON TOPIC: How was the show?

^ easy their dr. phill...........

I think u do what Jarmo is talkin about in the "Fuck Off" thread.

U latch on to a song or two just so your opinion doesn't appear to be biased when it truly is biased as hell. U had your mind made up u were gonna hate "Patience" before u even opened the link. I know people like u and u cant fool me.

dude that shit last night does not even come close to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1nNeRs_jPo

NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Slash's solo may be more true to the album version, but I honestly prefer what Robin does here.   He makes it his own and in a way that still does justice to the original.

you don't know me D.  I am even considering going to see VR when they hit Vegas next month!  did you know that?  : ok:

their fucking great live.....you should see them....seen them 5xs and this sat will make 6 :hihi:

James Robert, I too, like D, love the raw version of patience VR did. ?I loved hearing those familiar backing vocals of duff we have all grown to love. ?Of course axl sings it better, but Scott did a great effort and at the end he sang with conviction. ?I enjoyed it a lot and can't wait to see them in October. ?Looks like a fun show!!!

yea i'm sure its a cool show, and tickets are only like 50 bucks.   i have no doubt i'd enjoy a VR show, even if I'm not big on some of the material.

to each his own yo.

I just don't think Scott is cut out to sing those songs.   I do enjoy their STP covers and don't think they are missing anything.  but when Scott Weiland sings a GnR song, something huge is missing and it jus rubs me the wrong way.

The point is someone has made it their personal vandeta to minimize VR on this board and that is sad...like I said time and time again, it is your site and that's fine. I think it's the only site that I frequent that has choosen to purposefully put down and belittle another band. I agree this is a GNR board and that should be the priority, but there was no harm in having the VR section the way it was.

You are trying to create friction between VR and GNR fans when there is no need to have friction and people can like both bands. I will buy Chinesse Democracy when it comes out (if I'm still alive) and will go see GNR in concert, the same as I support VR.

We can co-exist ? :peace:

James Robert, you must see them! ?I think you really do like certain parts of VR! ?Maybe a good live show will show u something more to like. ?

As for those dissing the VR version of Patience, remember Scott has not sung this song that often...the vocals will improve as he sings it more often just as Brownstone and It's So Easy have. I actually prefer Brownstone and It's So Easy by VR over the nu-GNR, but I prefer the classic GNR the most.

To each his own though. Some people will prefer the nu-GNR versions and I think that's great that we can be exposed to this great music more. I for one don't like Robin and Bumblefoot as much, I find their take on the songs cheapens it, but that's what makes us individual.

Now back to the topic...that was the BEST CONCERT I EVER SAW !!!!

If you make up lies about me, I'll call you a fucking liar because that's what you are.

It's the VR fans who keep bringing up GN'R. Go figure.




/jarmo

that's a decent cover, thx for posting.
weiland is ok on this one, a relax version.

maybe i'm wrong, but it sounds as an answer to axl who performed don't cry.

i've read all these topic, and others, and the fact is all these guys are gunners
(minus scott of course, who has a difficult role here, cause no one pretend singing
as axl, but it does his job in is own way (the most part of the time without too much savour imho)

so of course we compare their work, that's inevitable. i have personally no problem
to argue with hardcove VR fans, with respect. i think the guys have more respect for
each others than the fans have for other fans.

i suppose it's because we all have a little passion yeeaaaaaaaaaah  :hihi:

I prefer Slash guitar playing, it so fucking awesome! His tone is perfect. I also think Matt is doing the best drumfills sound pretty much like the old guns. Axl's voice is still the best on earth but Scott makes a fucking great job when he's not messing with the melodies. I would love to see some proshot on VR doing Patience.

Robin dose a great job on his solo to but I prefer Slash  :peace:

if my girl wants to go we are going, its up to her.  shes not a big VR fan but she does like AIC and she does like going to the strip anytime there is an excuse to go.

Maybe Scott and Axl could do a duet and we could get past all the hate!!!! ?I think it is cool they played the song. ?I had to travel to Detroit and Vegas to see GNR in 02..... ?GNR is not on tour now. ?So this will carry me till they tour the Southeast US again. ?


VR is an excellent live act with a killer set list.

Nothing is minimized. The VR section doesn't generate the traffic here and I'm not gonna try to get that kind of traffic either.


Talking of putting others down and belittling. That's what VR are doing in most of their interviews.  ::)





Go visit the VR forum and see how high up GN'R are listed.

It's under "Other Music" even thought 3/5 of the band have a history in GN'R. Is that something that offends you?

You're the same person who says many VR fans love both bands. Doesn't it upset you that they are putting down GN'R by putting them all the way down with "Other Music". The section dedicated to bands like Poison and My Chemical Romance is higher up than GN'R.

Are you upset?


Edit: It's not like it's hidden or you need to click more times to get here. It clearly says Velvet Revolver with a link to this section on the index page.  :hihi:


/jarmo

well shes not a gnr fan either, she likes slash way more than axl.  :rofl:

but yea i'm sure its a cool live show.  probably a good time.  i dont expect much but getting to see Slash and Duff tear it up is always a good thing.

Actually the VR board I vist have GNR as their own section and it does get a fair amount of traffic, probably not as much traffic as your VR section here gets but it's up to date and most people post accurate and reliable information and don't talk shit about them like some talk about VR on this site. It has actually now replaced this board as my favorite board to visit just cause this one is now targetted and not objective and these arguments are so childish. The other board encourages freedom of speech but yet demands members are respectful. Swearing (even by the webmaster) is not tolerated. And this might be a new concept to you, thrashing of GNR on a VR website is not encouraged or even tolerated....wow what a novel concept. I just can't believe the changes that have happened here over the last 1/2 a year. I had never posted here before and was a silent observer but now I've started to speak up a bit cause this is somewhat insane.

Whats wrong with that?

I like them about the same.

nothing, shes not a fan of either but she dispises axl.   its just a little ironic.

Yeah, it's insane how quick people forget the exciting years like 1998 and 2005.

Instead they come here to attack GN'R when everybody else is excited about a tour, a new interview or something similar.



Good for them. So they claim to encourage freedom of speech while censoring certain words they find offensive.

If that's your definition of freedom of speech, good for you.  : ok:


/jarmo

Maybe the can go real nostalgic and play SCOM since slash invented that song and probably convinced himself he wrote the lyrics

i wouldnt mind hearing an instrumental version of Scom

how long did Alice In Chains play for at this show, and also how long did VR play for, just want to figure this out so I could get my rides together for this saturday at Jones beach, btw, best fuckin version of Patience since the Lies CD came out

That's just..... Something.



/jarmo

Jim Bob, you are a great GNR fan, but, Fink did not improve that solo at all, and, as usual, it was an improv mess for him...  Nice, but not well constructed like Slash's.

I dont understand if you don't like VR why do you come to this section?  I think it was a great version of the song , vocals aren't that bad and the band of course was good , love to hear slash do his acoustic stuff. Best version of the song far from it , but enjoyable none the less.

EDIT: Whoever posted the KRQQ version , he doesn't improve the solo to me seems like a simple imrpov over it , and slash like to me. But DAMN Axl's vocals...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK0ziXQIsQM ,  :beer:  : ok:

It was great to hear them play that song!  I loved it.. Scott sounded great (not Axl great) but a better singer on this song than Robin is when he plays it if that makes sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fc7i1yugKw

Another clip from the other side of the stage.  The sound is awesome..

Scott did the song more justice vocal wise than robin did guitar wise ,  :beer: agreed

^^^^^Thanks for splainin!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kByGCYJXAz8&NR=1 

Cool intro into Set me Free

Wow the man still has it no doubt , reminds me of '92 video. I can't wait to see them in September!

I think Slash is saying fuck it now.. He is going back to Snakepit/GNR style of no longer holding back... Way to go Slash!  Rock the fuck out!  Maybe Scott is buying into "let Slash be Slash" or something..  I love this, makes me so ready for show!

Yea well I guess now they feel a lot more comfortable as a band , as a unit , so he doesn't worry he just lets it all out.  :beer: Me neither!!!

patience, no fucking way, badass

Well i am not going to fight but i like the gnr Patience then V/R but they did ok


Peace

1- VR has nothing to do with Guns N' Roses. No need to make stupid comparations. You can always go to the VR forum to express your frustrations.

2- You're saying that the PC version played by VR members with the...ehmm... linkin park singer was ''way'' better than any version GNR have done (I wont use the ''new'' prefix 'cause I'm a GNR fan and I dont like to mutilate that glorious name) in 2006-2007? You must be fucking kidding me. I would bet my life you haven't heard any GNR bootleg, or you're definitely deaf, or you're just provoking GNR fans with that kind of stupid comment. Because it's not a matter of subjectivity: we can argue about both instrumental bases (I still think GNR sounds way better, fresher, tighter and a lot more aggresive than VR but that's just my point of view) but if you say you prefer a song sang by Chester Bennington rather than the same song singed by Axl Rose, one of his creators, you're just being hypocrite or you're not a GNR fan.


Dizzy could not be an original member, but Axl is. Do I need to remember you that there are no original GNR members in VR?


Sorry. But you're WRONG.

Do you know the meaning of the word ''original''? GNR was born without Slash/Duff, and obviously without Matt.

You can say that the GNR original lineup did nothing, you can say no-one knows who's Tracii Guns or Ole Beich, you can thank God that that lineup broke up and GNR found Slash and his ''killer guitar melodies''

But you cant say that Duff/Slash are included in the GNR original lineup, simply because that's a  tremendous lie.



It's quite simple man: the band that ended a tremendous mexican/australian/asian tour the last month is Guns N' Roses. It's So Easy, Brownstone and PC are Guns N' Roses songs. Axl participated in the creation of PC and Brownstone but not in ISE. When Duff and West Arkeen wrote that song, they did it for GNR. Conclussion: Mr Brownstone is a Guns N' Roses song that belongs to Guns N' Roses and no-other artist. Wings playing ''Let It Be'' is a cover, doesnt matter that Paul McCartney wrote the song: the song belongs to the The Beatles catalogue, now and forever.

Its So Easy belongs to Guns N' Roses. Duff and Slash are not Guns N' Roses anymore. The band that performed in Japan in July is. That's how things are, for good or bad, and I will never understand why this is so hard to understand for a lot of VR fans.


I think its quite different, and I agree with chineseblues that I have never found any proof that Axl really said that.

if Axl said that, it was supposed to happen in 1992, right? Well, he can have changed his mind 15 years later.

Slash says a million things, then he said the exact opposite 3 days later. Sometimes I think he's a pathological liar. I dont care. I really dont give a shit about Slash constant lies and contradictions. I just do care when he does cheap shots at Axl or GNR. I think also that this forum should NOT be the place to post those cheap shots, but curiously, the more Slash talks about GNR, the more activity in the VR section of this site.


Jesuschrist, horrible. Sometimes I wonder if Slash and Duff dont realise that Weiland is ruining all the songs they've helped writing. Terrible...


And I'm sick at your lack of respect for US, the GNR fans. How can you talk about respect and how can you say you're a GNR fan while destroying the name of the band that way? NuGNR my ass.

Listen to Hollywood Rose and then THANK GOD Axl found SLash,Duff,Izzy etc


The Original GNR is the Appetite lineup

To say otherwise is simply being full of shit.

Izzy was in hollywood rose.

The Appetite lineup was not the original band members.  They may be the definitive lineup that made GnR huge, but they weren't the first version of the band.

Who played on Live Like A Suicide?


Thats the original band.


Do u know who was in the Original Bon Jovi going by your warped criteria?

Only Jon

SO are u telling me he is the ONLY Original member of Bon Jovi?


U guys are really fuckin reaching and its exactly what I was talkin about in the Admin Section

Fans tryin to discredit the old members as if Axl has used various musicians his whole career under the GNR name so its ok now with an entirely new group.

Whatever makes u feel better but u are dillusional if u think Slash and CO. aren't ORIGINAL MEMBERS.


Go by the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame standards for inductions:

U think Tracii Guns is getting in? NO FUCKIN WAY

The Original band is recognized as Axl,Slash,Duff,Izzy,and Steven.

I listened to GNR's inland invasion again and why do they have to be so SLOPPY on the guitar parts. Just play the fuckin song already.

Thats what drives me crazy about the new members. Improv etc all u want on your songs but U CANT MAKE NOVEMBER RAIN better than it is, so just play it note for note, SCOM is PERFECT, U can't change that solo any. Robin's phrasing and tone are just sloppy

Slash is Sloppy awesome/cool, Robin's annoys me especially when its like he is just doodling.

That solo on Inland is embarrassing just like the solo he'd do before SCOM in 2002 and don't get me started on Christina Aguilera. Nothing says cool like Christina Aguilera ::)


On a side note, Yeah Axl completely OWNS Scott in every way shape and form. Axl is ridiculously amazing since comin back in 06 even way better than the Illusion tours in my opinion.

Let me get this shit straight

Carrie Underwood covers GNR and u guys give her less grief than a band with 3/5th of the former members doing it?

WTF?

i guess you didn't see the part where i said

so i'm not taking away anything from their accomplishments.

I can't believe all the really stupid fucking bashing shit going on for what is probably VR's greatest setlist to date! :o


Seems as though people will always see the negative, and I seem to keep forgetting that apparently it's some sort of crime to actually like BOTH VR and GN'R...


Anyway, I hope the setlist stays this cool by the time they tour Australia again. : ok:

Damn! the more I see of this tour the more it makes me wanna grab a plane and go see a show or two, You know I might actually go and do that since I've still got a couple of weeks of from work? :peace:

Ok I admitted in my post after that, that I may have been wrong. But the point is that Jarmo can be objective to. I'm a fan of the music by my favourite band Guns n Roses and I want to hear more of it. I find it strange that people like Jarmo just can't be happy that they get's some great music played on a concert. Now they can listen to that version to and if they don't like it then they just don't need to listen to it. It don't really mather if Slash said that they wouldn't play more Guns because it's just great that they did, I love to hear good music! I realy love Slash's playing because I'm a fan of this song that I heard the first time on a cd.

I am a GNR fan, cause I call the nu GNR the nu GNR or Axl's GNR doesn't mean I'm a fan. I do like to distinguish the new lineup from the old. To me when they play the GNR tunes they are as much of a cover band as VR and I know I'll get jumped all over to say that. Just as Scott isn't as good as Axl on most of the songs he sing (although he does do a really good job), the nu-GNRs guitarists come no where close to Slash and Izzy (or Gilby) IMO. Does  that mean they shouldn't cover those songs? No, they should play them, they are a part of Axl's history and they should be proud and honored to play them, but that isn't my concept of what GNR was and how the songs that I feel in love with 20 years ago sounded, hense the name nu GNR. I'm an objective fan, I don't feel the need to kiss Axl's or Slash's ass. I think both have made some mistakes and mislead fans at times, but the bottom line is that both of them are also in the media spotlight and have had both of their words twisted as well by the media and by fans. No matter what I still enjoy the music from BOTH bands.

Most of their stuff is much better to experience it live than it is on CD

well, ask any casual fan who the original lead guitarist of GnR was and I bett 100% say Salsh, not Traci Guns :hihi:

You're joking right? Slash's solo there was a meandering mess. I don't think he really knew what the hell he was trying to do.

Somehow I doubt they'll say that  :hihi:

lol that was funny  :rofl: how a simple mispelling can trow away your entire argument... that why I always preview my posts lol  ;)

Than you're doing a poor job previewing your posts?? :P

more funny than hired/fired i see.  :hihi:

lol guess I was owned  :-[

ok lets see

knocking on heavens door--------bob dylan
live and let die---------paul mcartney

who cares if they want to play covers,

velvet revolver-------patience

Different Thread....Same arguments......

Yeah... Isn't it wonderful?

That just shows that its not a GUNS N ROSES thing, its just on message boards we are all cynical/negative fucks who love to bitch about shit regardless.

Its like when u are on the interstate or freeway and there is a bad car wreck up ahead. we dont give a shit that people may be hurt or killed, all we care about is the fact we are gonna be late for work or late getting home.

We hate and bitch about Axl's setlist, we hate and bitch about VR's setlist.


So the negativity has nothing to with Axl or VR its just we are a collective group of negative assholes who can't be satisfied regardless. : ok:

so i cant fucking type :'(

Patience is awesome !

Scott do great job with GNR songs they cover  : ok:

Really? But you dont seem to have the need to distinguish the [original lineup] with [AFD's lineup], and the [Jan 1991/Dec 1991] lineup with the [dec 1991/march 1993 lineup], right?

You only feel like distinguishing when Slash is not there. Some people need to remember that Slash never called the band NuGNR when he (and the rest of the guys) fired Adler, when Izzy left the band, when Gilby left the band later, NEVER. GNR has always had lineup changes, but a bunch of resentful fans only whine when Slash is not included. And there's another thing that has to be remembered: Slash left GNR by his own decision. Same for Duff.

There are a lot of ways to distinguish different lineups. Because that's what changes: the lineups, not the band's name, like a million other bands like Metallica, The Rolling Stones, AC/DC and even there was a lineup change in The Beatles when Ringo replaced Pete Best. Do you hear people calling ''New Metallica''? What about Black Sabbath or Deep Purple? They had innumerous lineup changes, and no-one needs to mutilate these band's name. I am an active user in various GNR forums, I discuss GNR -all eras- and I have never needed to intentionally modify the Guns N' Roses name. The ''NuGNR'' is an elegant way to deny this band its identity. ''NuGNR'' is ''different'', is not ''GNR''. Am I right?

Accept it: this band is called Guns N' Roses, like it or not. Your whining will not change a damn thing. Find a million people to whine all together about this and that will not change a damn thing neither.


Let me put it this way: when Guns N' Roses played ''You Ain't The First'' and ''Patience'' at the River Plate Stadium the 16th of July, 1993... Were they playing a ''cover''?

Let's see:

Who wrote ''Patience''? Izzy Stradlin
Who wrote ''You Aint The First''? Izzy Stradlin.
Was Izzy Stradlin there? No.
Were Matt, Gilby and Dizzy at the GNR Lies recording? No.

Let's see how you manage to respond this question without contradicting yourself  : ok:

Excellent point!

Another interesting aside from the recent RS story on GN'R:  Izzy explaining to Tracii Guns why they were keeping the name Guns N' Roses, telling him "it's just the name of the band."  :)  I love it.

In the end, it's all about where you draw the line, and that is subjective, is it not?

Ali

Black Sabbath with Dio now goes by "Heaven and Hell".  They are not allowed to tour under the Black Sabbath Banner anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgXIniBmSo4&NR=1

I got faked out by this clip.....  Its studio..  Not live.  But I do like come on come in.

That's now, they weren't touring as Heaven and Hell back in the 80's now were they?

Plus, they only changed the name to avoid confusion, so people wouldn't expect Ozzy, or any of Ozzy's Sabbath material

Very easy to respond to that point, without contradicting myself like you believed I would. I've posted this here before, to me what drew me to GNR was not the vocal (although I do think Axl is an awesome lead singer). For me what drew me to GNR was the hard rock blues based guitar, which after Slash left it left to. Even when they cover the old material it has been replaced for the most part with different solos, and the blues based riffs are even somewhat softened and toned into a more harsh electronic sound. To me that was the GNR identity and why I call them the nuGNR because the music has changed, the only constant is the vocals. From the way you speak I imagine you were drawn to GNR for the vocals (that may be wrong I just assume that cause of your argument).

You have to understand that there was many elements in GNR that worked together, you can year it from the solo albums, Duff was more of the punk feeling, Izzy was more Stonesy, Slash was more blues based. I liked the different elements that were brought into the band. It wasn't the nuGNR when Steven or Izzy left cause they played the old members parts much like the old members they replaced, in fact Matt was an upgrade over Steven (IMO), but he still stayed true to the drumlines Adler had laid down already.

I'm not saying I dislike the nuGNR, I am a fan and do support the band...however, they did loose the identity that made them my favorite band once upon a time. They've changed, they've evolved, but not everyone will think the change is for the better. This is not a Slash vs Axl argument, it's the fact that alot of the emotion in the guitar is now non-existent, the emotion in the lyrics remains, but without the two it isn't the same and never will be until the nu-GNR guitarists start to play with emotion instead of screading or playing with way too much distortion.

stop

fucking

calling

them

nuGNR

until you stop doing that, yes it appears you do dislike them and no one is going to take your opinions seriously.

Read the message I wrote and if your inteligent enough to come up with a response without swearing maybe I'll stop calling them the nuGNR, or I can just call them Axl's GNR.

I think VR did a great job.  Scott clearly changed some melody parts on purpose, those who think not are crazy.  Th eband kept it very close to the original which was nice.  I think Scotts vocals really suited this song (other than the outro) and he did a good job. 

There really should be no arguments over whether they should play it or not.  They have every right to.  The Slash comment about not playing GNR songs on this tour was obviously a slip and backtracked pretty quickly - I see no problem with that.  It's nothing new for any artist to say things that change.

For the idiot who said they play GNR songs to sell more tickets........... seriously?  C'mon.... you really think that anyone would buy tickets to a VR show to see them play 2 GNR songs??????  That is ludicrous.

I hate that these things turn into rows.  I think it would be much more strange if they didn;t play any GNR songs.  The only issue that people really seem to have (and even this is nit-picking) is the fact Slash said they wouldn't.  They changed their minds man - no big deal.

I enoyed it.

you are calling teh band stupid names and you are stating your opinion as if it was a fact.  no sir, no one is going to take what you are saying very seriously at all.

this is a contradictory statement

"emotion" is not something you can state as a fact.   Some may find Finck to be a more "emotional" player than the others.   Others may see that in Richard.   You guys use stupid terms like "emotional" and "raw" and state things like they are facts.  its all subjective.   

Holy crap...how old are you...5? I said several times in my post I was stating opinions, if you can't read properly you certainly shouldn't post. How is saying "I'm not saying I dislike the nuGNR, I am a fan and do support the band" a contradictory statement. In order to be contradictory I would have to disagree with something I said which I have not. I do support the nu GNR, have seen them in concert and will buy their album...that IS supporting the band. Just cause I call them a name you don't like for reasons that are obviously beyond your level of comprehension doesn't mean I don't support th band.

Darth, Bobby Robby takes the names thing serious.  Best thing to say is "Current" line up and "Classic" line up. 

It was hard for most to break the "nu" thing, but its easier to break it than hear Jimmy Booby bitch about the damn thing non stop. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZYMvKaBufk

Jimmy Bobby, view the above link.  Its Scott's old band mates singing Interstate Love Song with new band (including a new lead singer) Army of Anyone.

So obviously, its okay for them to do it.  I have no problems, and niether should the rest of the GNR fans.

Jesuschrist dude, stop calling Guns N' Roses ''NuGNR''. It's a basic respect norm. We are here for Guns N' Roses, and this site is dedicated to Guns N' Roses. The administration of this forum BELIEVES in Guns N' Roses, and by modifying the band's name you're doing nothing but insulting the band and the GNR fans browsing this forum.

You are asking Jim Bob how old is he, but you act like an inmature little kid that cant accept facts.


... And?

And Black Sabbath, if you dont know, was called Black Sabbath with multiple different lineups. Same applies for Metallica, AC/DC, Maiden, Stones and a lot of other mythical rock bands.

You're just giving an exceptional example, something that doesn't occur regularly, and that only applies in the present.

Estanbaf, it was a correction to the other poster that used them as an example.. I was just letting everyone know Dio in Sabbath is called Heaven and Hell now.  That is true.

And here is another one that can't make an argument. I have to stop calling them nu GNR beacuse the administration of this board wants everyone to kiss Axl's ass? I respect Guns, I support Guns as much as alot of the die hard fans. Because in my opinion I believe this is not the same band as the orignal GNR and call them nu GNR means I'm not a fan and don't respect them. So this board is now supposed to dictate what I think and how I speak? I think some of you need to get out a little more, get a job or a hobby or something.

I will respect your wishes and will not call the nu GNR by the name of nu GNR anymore, henseforth I will refer to the nu GNR as Axl's GNR. : ok:

Alright fellas, this is nearing lock city so get back on topic please.

To refresh all involved's memory, it's about the VR Monteal show.

Thanks.

Metallica actually changed their name yesterday because of a fan on a forum (what was his name again... darth something?) who wasn't happy they kept their name after losing Cliff and Jason respectively. So now they're Sgt. Hetfield's Motorbreath Club Band.

On a more serious note, this version of Patience was quite good, I'd say.  And if it pisses people off that they play GNR songs, I hope there's more to come! As long as they stay away from Ain't talkin' bout love, I'll go see them the next time they're in town.

Haha. You didn't call it that in 1991 did you?  :-*





-1





It lacks the emotion of the original because the guy doing the cover doesn't have the range needed to lift the song.

It just sounds kinda lifeless and bland...... Like most of their own songs.

I guess I just don't like his voice.  :P







/jarmo

And just about any fan of Black Sabbath definitly distingushes between ozzy and Dio.......at least the peple I know do

Again, on topic please.

VR/Montreal.

Lots of Sabbath talk in the "Bad Obsession" thread.

Thanks.

Jarmo, I thought the first part was good.....he can't do the ending obviously. However, you have to admit, it took some balls for him to do that one. Huge Gnr hit with a VERY distinctive vocal on it. That literally is a classic Axl vocal.

Falcon would have still been heading for the piss stalls! ;D : ok:

There is absolutely no doubt about that.

I've never liked the tune, a waste of setlist space to whatever band plays it IMO.

Although..

A majority of the fans at the Montreal show seemed to dig it so why get all goofy about them including it the setlist?

It's just a song, no need for anyone to take it as a personal afront.

Of course it is going to get a good response.... ;)   you just crack me up with your no ballads rule.....straight rock. :hihi:

Falcon, you are so hard core.. I love it.  If you are there with a girl on a date and can't get a kiss with the tripple header of Gravedancer, Patience, and ILS, you have no game!!!!  Ha!  I amfine with it.  I piss during big machine.  That may be the worst VR song ever.  YGNR needs to be added back!  Lack of video from this show is killing me!

It's not necessarily a rule, just a matter of taste. ?Never been a fan of the "acoustic breakdown" at a rock show, it's momentum killer for me. ?

I realize most fans dig it and it provides a breather for the band so as per your prior post, I'll continue to make my way to the piss stalls if it's a part of the setlist at a show I attend. ?:beer:

everybody's saying that he can't do the ending and they like the first part the best.. i'm as usual feeling the opposite :hihi:

i feel that he "comes in" wrong in the verses and then it feels stressed, i don't care if that's on purpose or not.. the ending rocks though (that's also the part i like best overall as the whole song, whoever sings it)

What I like is that he atleast sings with some balls and conviction!

I thought Scott sang it pretty well.  He will always be criticized because he can't scream like Axl, but I think he has a good voice regardless and does a great job with his range.  Just because he can't scream or hit high notes like Axl, Baz or Plant doesn't mean he can't sing.  I'm glad VR played Patience.  Just like I'd want to hear Baz play Skid Row songs if I saw him.  Simply put, I enjoy watching Slash and Duff play songs they heavily contributed to.  I don't want them to play 12 GN'R or STP songs a night but think a few are fine.  I'm betting the crowds at the show love hearing it too. On the other hand, I love hearing Axl and the boys play the classics as well.  I think we make this too much of an argument and should really just enjoy the fact both bands are out playing...

oh come on man... even I think that performance was pretty good.

So let me get this straight, some of you actually think that the VR version is somehow "realer" just because Slash is playing, compared to the versions where Izzy (who wrote the song) played and Axl sang at GnR shows in 2006? 

Funny and absurd at the same time

Some also think it's better than the versions Izzy played on in 1991.....

Or Slash played on in 1992-93.

Some people just want to love VR so badly.



Neurotic Outsiders had Duff and Matt, but I never read these fans supporting NO like this.

Slash's Snakepit had Slash and Gilby (plus Matt on the record) in 1995-96. Same thing.


I guess it's because GN'R are back, these people feel they have to hype VR while they can.... It's apparent by the many appearances of the "at least they release albums" clich? in this section.



/jarmo

See jarm this is what I mean dude you come and stir shit up , ok moderate that is understandable but the whole

"people feel the have to hype VR while they can" shit is what provokes people. Yea at least they release albums , decent albums , axl has NO albums neither great nor crappy so that says a lot. We like VR because they are a good band that plays good music , if you don't like them whop di fucking do so what. For some reason when Slash and Duff want to play GNR its like OMG those bastards MOVE on JESUS CHRIST , but Axl does it night after night and to no ones argument its all fine. Don't give me well he is in GNR so he plays GNR , face the facts without Slash and Duff , most of what Axl does would not even exist at this point. Doing a tour and having no album out for 2 years does not constitute the word "back" for me.

Yep...I don't understand this, I think most people have said they really enjoyed Patience and some may have said they enjoy it more than Axl's GNR, but I don't remember anyone specifically saying they enjoyed it more than the 1991 version or 1992-1993 version. That is putting words in people's mouth. That is something a few people are good at on this board, ok lets take something someone said, I'll add a couple of words in here and there and "Oh my God" look what they said, they're thrashing GNR  :rant:

That quote right there is what I'm asking about, and getting a chuckle out of

This notion that Slash playing it at a VR show is somehow more authentic than Izzy (the songwriter) playing on it with Axl singing it is what I'm asking about

Slash didn't write the song and allegedly didn't even like it or want to record it.  But because "he's Slash" you have people acting like it's more genuine when he plays it, than it is when the guy who actually wrote the song plays it with the lead singer who made it famous, at a Guns N' Roses show no less  :rofl:

musically? sure its a good version.   vocally? its garbage.

It's a fucking observation about the "fan community" I made over years and years.

Too bad if you don't like it or understand it because you just discovered GN'R last year.


I never saw this kind of support and hype for those bands I mentioned. Sure, some GN'R fans loved Snakepit and Neurotic Outsiders. But not many were saying they are better than GN'R.

Now it seems like VR is labeled better than GN'R out of spite. Because people quit the band. So VR has to be better to prove the decision to quit GN'R was right.



It's also funny how I get attacked for disrespecting the old members' input in GN'R or old band as a whole, which I've yet to see proof of, but at the same time people saying this version is better than GN'R's versions is just fine.

Please explain how saying this version is better than, for example, the ones Izzy played in 1991 isn't "disrespecting the old band"?





/jarmo

Its just making an unbiased observation. It would be far worse to say the original version was better just out of bias. It's like lots of people saying the Nightrain played during 06/07 tour was better than the original. Nothing disrespectful, just personal opinion.


Or maybe its because VR are better than all those bands - if anything you've just proved its entirely unbiased. Why do you find it so hard to believe some people might like their music - even you admit you thought they were interesting for a while, some people thought they were even more interesting. If you seriously think people say the like VR to justify Slash, Duff and Matt leaving GnR then that's rediculous - for one thing nobody thinks VR as a whole is better than the original GnR. Praising this version of Patience is nowhere close to that. The fact they didn't like NO or Snakepit as much as VR is surely proof that they like VR because of the music rather than the personnel.


Nah? it really isn't that hard a song to sing to begin with - he pretty much sings it the same as the original with a few lyric changes - calling it garbage is an exaggeration.   

Guns N Roses with Axl is doing the samething Steven is doing in his band...BUT Steven does not call it Guns N Roses. Vlvet Revolver is doing abit of this a bit of that. Not calling them selfs STP, GN'R, Snake pit, Load or what ever the fuck other bands they were in. But playing everything and making albums and touring on them. NOT because slash duff and matt have been in a band for 10 years and just want to tour evey 3 years tell people they coming out with a album, then have no album out. Then going back on tour with no album telling them that it would be coming soon. Then Tour and can the last month of it to get the album out and then..what??? no album...but a tour...and still...no album...but this fall/winter...what? album??? no tour. :rant:

i had the opportunity to see Velvet Revolver and Guns n Roses;  I saw DUFF,SLASH,MATT,DAVE,SCOTT. THEN i saw AXL,BUMBLEFOOT,RICHARD,FRANK, TOMMY, ROBIN, AND also DEL JAMES  that day they played in mexico, what more could i ask for. they are all great musicians, i have no complaints at all. i think im the luckiest guy!!! my dreams have come true in wtinessing all this.

2012 can't get here soon enough. All of this bickering and sniping is old and stupid. At least when GNR goes into the Rock Hall we won't have to listen to new Gnr is this, VR is that, Axl is GNR and all of the other non-sense that goes on around here. They aren't putting in Axl himself, they aren't putting the new line-up in, they aren't putting VR in; so at its core all we really do around here is argue about which band is less mediocre than the other when the original line-up is the only one of the 3 that is going to be immortalized. Neither Axl or Slash separately has reached the heights they did as a unit when measured by any discernable metric. So again, we are arguing about who sucks less, and it is poisoning this place. If 2 people make a million dollars a year each and split up so that one can earn 400,000 a year on his own and the other make 500,000 a year he is not some big winner. They are both losers because neither is making anywhere close separately what they made together. That is all we argue about here. We haven't heard anything from either band that is going to make people forget about Appetite or the Illusions any time soon, so let's just give this who is the best of the worst argument a rest already.

You quoted a comment about people enjoying this song more than the current GN'R version and turned it into a comment about which version is more authentic. ?That's ridiculous... and it would also make it an impossibility in your eyes for someone to enjoy a current performance of a GN'R song more than one from the original band. ?That's a preference.

As someone who's seen both the current GN'R lineup and VR perform this song live... I can say that I preferred the VR version. ?The atmosphere with the band sitting on the stage and the crowd's reaction (likely because it was unexpected) made the performance that much better and more enjoyable.

I also enjoyed Noel Gallagher's acoustic performance of Wonderwall more than the original when I saw it... Does that give you a chuckle because the original is more authentic with the full band and Liam on vocals?


I like how you guys take the stupid comments of one or two posters in EVERY SINGLE THREAD in this section and use it to drill VR and it's fans over and over... instead of making comments relevant to the people who are being level-headed about the whole situation (you know? the ones who aren't reacting like it's the end of the world that a fucking band changed it's mind about what songs it's going to play live on tour).

"Child Board" is right! ? :o

What Easy E said is exactly right, I never mentioned the word authentic I said preference. Those are 2 VERY different words, but since I am a VR fan (and GNR fan) you have to interpret it as meaning something else, something anti-GNR when I did no such thing. All that I said is some people may prefer the VR version over Axl's GNR version, and some may even prefer one of these two versions over the live versions from 1988-1993.

I think people need to start reading posts a little more carefully, and perhaps even read them multiple times with a dictionary before retaliating to the post with the mentality that anyone who posts a message that is VR-friendly must be dissing GNR.

It has nothing to do with people liking one version or another better, I don't really care because everyone's allowed their opinion.  But I do find it amusing that most of the same people in the online GnR community (not just this site) that are always complaining about how GnR songs just aren't the same without the old band and the current lineup isn't the "real" GnR, are the same ones saying that the VR version of Patience is better than the the version with the guy from the old band who actually wrote the song and the singer of the original version

A lot of these people are the same ones who get up in arms if someone says Buckethead's Nightrain solo is better than Slash's in the original.  That's what makes it funny.  It's sacrilege to say someone can play an old GnR song better than Slash, but they don't see anything wrong with saying that VR can perform the song that Izzy wrote and Axl sang better than Izzy and Axl can perform it.  It's a nice slice of irony

 :beer:


Anything around here that starts with

Velvet Revolver

Slash and Duff

I Prefer

I like VR

is automatically a "slap in the face to the current members" and dissing GNR.

At this point the only guitarist that has come anywhere near slash is Ron , I've never seen a guitarist with as much emotion and connection as Slash in his music. Did it ever occur to you that Slash made the guitar parts genius? There is no irony

Oh please.

I remember how I personally really wanted to like the first Snakepit album because Slash was on it. A GN'R member made a new album. I wanted to like it and I wanted to support it.

Same thing with Duff's solo album in 1993.

Then after a while you realize it's not really all that great....


I see the same kind of mentality in some posters here that I had at that time.

They want to like VR, so anything they do is just amazing.

You're a Slash fan for example, so you have to love VR. Even though the quality of what he's doing isn't even near the quality of the material that made you become a fan in the first place.


It's the same with all bands.


Before you say that I'm like that with GN'R, I can assure you that I don't have to force myself to like it. I hear the new songs and it sounds like an updated GN'R with all the classic ingredients that I always liked.

With VR, I hear it and I start thinking about STP.




/jarmo

A song can be really different even if the original writter and vocalist perform it. How many different sounding versions of Patience are there from 1988 to 1993 or even for arguments sake 1993 (minus the 5 or 6 dates that Izzy played with the band filling in for Gilby)? The answer is several, and there were versions I prefered over others with the same cast of members. It had nothing to do with Slash being present then and it does not have to have anything to do with Slash being present or absent now. It's called individual preference.

Axl's GNR with all the classic GNR elements? The only thing that is the same is the voice, the guitar, bass, and drumming style are vastly different and there is an influx of other sound effects. Anyways I believe we were talking about the Montreal show.  :yes: ?

So you can tell us since we are "slash" fans we must like VR , but can't say that about you HAHAHA

listen you are an axl fan , an axl is 110% right fan. Better sounds like axl's poor attempt at creating a song for the masses , not to mention whats up with the stupid keyboard fill , a misplaced technically amazing solo , and of course a GNR song can't be GNR without the other guitarist attempting to be slash and do another solo!!! Your mentality is the exact fucking same

Anything GNR do is just amazing to you , even though the quality of material Axl's is doing is no where near as good as what he did with slash and co. You say its the same with all bands but then say Oh no not me though , as if.

Anyways I think the words of Slash can sum this up pretty well for all you assholes that seem to want to keep fucking poking around and starting shit

"So when we're doing our stuff, I think more people probably look into it a little deeper than we're actually looking at it. It's just fun and it's something that we have every right to play 'cause we wrote it."
 :beer:

Oh, there's plenty of irony

Like giving Slash the lion's share of the credit for a song he had no part in writing and allegedly didn't even like or want to record

OMFG DUDE you where there with the band , OMG what else did Slash not want to record? I heard he also had NO PART in writing ANYTHING off AFD that it was all Tracii Guns?!??!! IS THIS TRUE TELL ME

Yea fucking right dude why in the hell am I going to believe a random fan telling me he had NO part in writing a song , and "allegedly" learn what that means its an allegation , doesn't mean its true. But then again you where there with the band because you know this stuff!!! ::)


EDIT: Also according to your sig Matt Sorum is a former employee ( im not going to contest that ) so do you think that Thal , Robin and such are also just "employees" ?

I understand that there are some people who do this... they try to "force" themselves into liking the music because of who's performing it.

I like Stone Temple Pilots. ?Scott is probably the reason I'm into this band, I never really cared for Snakepit or Neurotic Outsiders... I haven't taken the time to listen to Izzy's solo records (though I suspect I might actually like them), but I never tried to force myself into liking them. ?Is it that hard to believe that a GN'R fan might also like STP and enjoy a band that sounds like that? ?Maybe it is hard to believe for you because "STP was only popular in North America"....

I don't force myself to like the new GN'R either... I think songs like Silkworms, Oh My God, Rhiad and the Bedouins and Chinese Democracy (until recently) are really weak. ?There are also some new songs that are amazing.

However, that wasn't really my point. ?I used your quote of VR being labelled better than GN'R as an example of how some of you "VR haters" will take a comment by one stupid poster who IS labelling VR better out of spite, apply it to the rest of us (or focus in on it), and hang around this section arguing pointless BS.

First off, Slash has openly admitted he did not want to do "Sweet Child O' Mine" and that if it weren't for Axl, that song would never have gotten done. ?Second, "Better" is about learning from a failed relationship, coming to grips with what happened, and moving on now that you know "better". ?To say that Robin is trying to be like Slash is ridiculous. ?Slash is not the only guitarist in the world who can play melodically and with feeling during solos. ?Listen to the solo in "Catcher In The Rye". ?Are you gonna say that Brian May is trying to be like Slash there?

Ali

Wait this song is Patience right? YEA not Sweet Child , as if Axl didn't contest material either. If you guys haven't been in a band you have NO idea what creative process goes down. Its not the feeling its the style, its imitation.

Seems you missed the point.  First of all, Izzy wrote Patience.  Slash did not write it, that's not an allegation, it's a well known fact.  But you insist on giving Slash the credit for Patience for some reason.  He didn't write the song.  I'm sorry if I spoiled it for you like a little kid who just found out Santa Clause doesn't exist, but it's the truth so you should accept it and move forward

http://heretodaygonetohell.com/releases/gnrlies/patience.html

Second, it was Axl that said Slash wanted nothing to do with Patience, not me.  I'll believe his word over yours on what went down behind the scenes, any day of the week.  It's impossible for to prove this so I added "allegedly" on there in order to avoid one of you guys complaining about me stating it like a fact, but I guess I shouldn't have bothered

Slash didn't write ANY guitar part right? You know this stuff. I didn't say he wrote the song i said GUITAR parts. Oh yes because ALL axl's speaks is law around here hahahah , ok thats fucking great Axl said that about an Ex-memeber who he doesn't care for.  In the end.....

O BTW what the fuck am I arguing about , NONE OF THE NEW GUNS N ROSES WROTE MOST OF THE MATERIAL THEY ARE PLAYING ( which is also a fact ) , but thats fine right? It's ok for Ron and Robin and all the others to play GNR songs , but NOT for Slash and Duff OH NO get real.

"So when we're doing our stuff, I think more people probably look into it a little deeper than we're actually looking at it. It's just fun and it's something that we have every right to play 'cause we wrote it."

You said, what else did Slash not want to record, there is an example.

Ali

If he was a part of the writing process, he would be a credited writer on the song

The credited writers are the people who write the music and the lyrics.  In the case of Patience, Izzy wrote both the music and the lyrics.  If Slash wrote parts for the song then Izzy wouldn't be the lone credited writer now would he?

Yup you're right I forgot Izzy wrote the guitar solo's as well , Slash made his own part in the song. I DOUBT Izzy wrote the entire song complete with solo's fills and all.

Slash plays guitar on the song.  It doesn't mean he wrote it.  There's a distinction there that you don't seem to understand. 

He also played guitar on LALD and KOHD.  Do you think he wrote those songs too?

Want to get sarcastic dip shit where did I say he wrote it? I said guitar parts GUITAR PARTS

need to be slowed down

g-u-i-t-a-r ( A six stringed instrument of which Slash plays ) parts.

If you write a song on the guitar, you get credited for it.  If someone else writes a song on the guitar by themselves and you come in later and play guitar or or piano or whatever else over what they've already done, you didn't "write" the song which is what you claimed Slash did. 

The person who writes the lyrics isn't the only person that gets credit for writing the song.  Let's go step by step again.  Izzy wrote the song on his guitar.  He wrote the lyrics to the song.  Slash came in after the fact and played guitar on a song that Izzy had already written.  You claimed Slash wrote the song.  You were wrong

I'm dealing with facts here, you're dealing with opinions.  No matter how bad you wish Slash wrote the music of Patience, he didn't.  Izzy did

Get this through your head already: They're Guns N' Roses, they play songs recorded and released by Guns N' Roses.

Just like Alice In Chains isn't doing songs by the Spice Girls because they're still called Alice In Chains.


Are you really not getting it already?


You don't buy a ticket for GN'R and think they won't play the old hits.


You owe me for this. Just like every artists owes you an album.  :rofl:


/jarmo

Slash wrote the guitar melodies and solos on "Estranged" and "November Rain" and he didn't get credited as a songwriter.

So, Slash not getting songwriting credits for writing solos was standard in GN'R.

Ali

The voice is there, the great lyrics, great guitar sounds.....





/jarmo

But the argument here is Slash didn't write it , why should he be playing it in a new band. NEWSFLASH Izzy isn't in gnr anymore and they still play Patience but thats alright. Alice in chains is a majority of the original line up , unlike Axl and gang. Point is why is it such a FUCKING BIG DEAL for slash to play on those songs jesus christ.

EDIT: Also Ali yes thats what i'm saying but according to Shotgunblues , Slash didn't write anything on Patience because thats what the Lies Booklet says!

Slash should get more credit.  Izzy's simple chord structure with nothing else if very bland, but put creative Slash solo's all over it and you have great music.  Basically, that is all izzy did, strummed chords and said... hmm  Slash, you should do a solo hear and steal the show... Ha!  I agree Chords to songs and Lyrics count as writing, but the other members add so much to the song that they should be mentioned. But the music industry doesn't do that. 

That's not the argument anybody has made. 

There's not even an argument being made by anyone but you.  I just said I think it's funny when the same people who act like it's blasphemy to say any post-Slash lineup of GnR performs Nightrain better than the old one, are basically the same ones who are first in line to say the VR version of Patience is better.

Those peoples argument is generally that the new lineups could never perform it as well as the old band because they didn't write it.  Even though Axl is a credited writer on the song.  And now those same people are the ones saying VR's version of Patience is better than the versions that GnR did last year, even though nobody in VR wrote Patience, and even though the man who created Patience played it with GnR at many of their shows last year. 

It's not even an "argument".  It's an observation, and one that I think is funny.  I never said I have a problem with VR playing the song.  It's fine with me if they play it

Jarmo, reference my above post again..  Its okay.  Scott's old band does the same thing.

It's more of a matter of what you can copyright legally. ?As far as I know, what can be considered unique and copyrightable are lyrics and melodies, obviously not chords or chord progressions for that matter. ?Izzy wrote the lyrics as well as the basic music for song and at least some part of the melodies, which I'm sure Axl later made his own. ?Therefore he should get the bulk if not all of the credit for writing the song.

Ali

I agree....  But that song loses a lot with out the solo or outro which is all signature Slash.  Izzy would have been a great player in a band like STP too!  Great songs with okay solos.  I think Slash's guitar is as important as Axl's vocals.

Exactly just because it list Izzy as the "lone" writer , doesn't mean slash didn't write some parts.

It was cool that Axl gave Slash a nice little line about the guitar melodies....

But really, though it was nice, Slash name should be on that song.. I know its Axl's baby.. On the PIANO!  Slash came up with the riff and solos and fills..  Hell, that is half the song!  That song with out Slash is nothing, that is why I get so sick of people saying who wrote what..  I could strum e,g,d,a over and over and over with Slash blazing away, but since I did the chords I get credit only?  lame.

The song is nothing without the person who created the song.  A song existed before Slash touched it.  Same deal with Patience.  What you said is as disrespectful as saying that Locomotive and Coma are nothing without Axl, like the guitarwork Slash did before Axl wrote the lyrics and laid down the vocals was somehow "nothing".  That's not true, and I'm sure you'd agree

Right on.  The difference is a song existing before Slash touched it.

Ali

I don't think he said that at all, he said Slash played a HUGE part in Estranged. He was saying while some songs are only credited to one or two parties some songs were a big collaborative effort and no one can really tell what people ?were responsible for what parts.

As for the new Guns being like the classic Guns...well BULLSHIT!!! The only thing that is the same is the singer and the name. The lyrics are different cause Izzy actually wrote a significant amount of the lyrics and the guitar is nothing like the Guns of old. Whether people think it is better or worse is a matter of individual opinion but don't sit there and tell me they are the same. Axl's GNR is no more like the GNR of 1985-1994 than VR is or any other band for that matter. There has been a fundamental change in style. Tell me one of the new songs that has the classic elements of the 1985-1994 GNR.

The Blues, TWAT, Catcher In The Rye, IRS aside from the shred solo

Hey, I agree with a lot you say!  We agree on more that disagree!  But just watch the making of Estranged and you see how gratefull Axl is for Slash and how Slash embraced it as his own song!  Just like Axl did with Coma with Slash handed Coma to him. 

Rose is credited with both Coma and Locamotive?  Isn't he?

Axl Rose is credited as co-writer with Slash on those songs.  My guess is that Slash came up with a riff that was the basis for the songs and that Axl added lyrics and melodies and other aspects I'm sure.

Ali

The Blues, TWAT, Catcher In The Rye, IRS ? I don't really think so. The guitar and the base of these songs is quite different, the one that is the closest is probably Catcher in the Rye, which last I heard from the rumours might not even be on the album. All the new songs are heavily industrially and electronically influenced. I'm not saying they are better or worse for being that way. I'm just saying they would stick out like a sore thumb on any of the released GNR records, about as much as My World sticks out like a sore thumb.

And yes Axl was credited for both Coma and Locamotive, song credits for GNR material was based on a weighting scale where lyrics counted for a bigger percentage than the music. I'm not sure what the exact breakdown was, but there was a system.

That is what I meant... slash is not on November Rain or Estranged.. But as Axl said, nobody wanted to do those songs.. He had to force them too. But  he contributed so much to them.

There is nothing industrial or electronic about "The Blues", "I.R.S", "Catcher In The Rye" or "Madagascar".? Just because a song has a drum loop or synthesizer in it, that does not make it industrial.? Even "Better" is not industrial.? It's driven by a great beat and Robin's guitar melody and Axl's vocal melodies.? I don't know what rumor you are referring to about CITR not being on the record.? Unless you have something substantial behind that, like a source, please don't regurgitate stuff like that.? That's how baseless rumors spin out of control and are given more credit than they deserve.? Look at what happened with Eddie Trunk recently.

Lyrics and melodies were each 25% of the songwriting credits according the system devised by Slash:? During pre-production for Appetite, Axl said, "Slash devised a system of figuring out who wrote what parts of a song or part of a song. There were four categories, I believe. There was lyrics, melody, music - meaning guitars, bass and drums - and accompaniment and arrangement. And we split each one of those into twenty-five percent. When we had finished, I had forty-one percent, and other people had different amounts."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

Ali

The guitar is industrial-like in quality. It's sure not blues based (like the old GNR material) or punk or many other types of music. There is a lot of highly distorted power chords, and yes loops and so on which were not a tradition staple in GNR music. The solos are also way more distorted and sometimes shred like. I'm just saying this music is significantly different.

As for Catcher in the Rye I identified it as unsubstanciated so the reader would take it with a grain of salt, I never said it was fact. As for referencing your quotes, do you have a source for this cause I read something a while ago and I was almost sure Axl came up with the songwritting credit system but I didn't want to write it cause I didn't remember where I read it.

Alright all, someoeone bring this back to VR's Montreal show.

Fast.

All this shit has been discussed ad nauseum a bazillion times.

I grow weary..

Ok, lets give this a try. Were people satisfied with the semi-acoustic set? Do people want to see it longer or not have it or have some different songs? I for one would like to also see them play You Got No Right during the acoustic set and perhaps even Fall to Pieces.

I say drop Fall to Pieces and add You Got No Right.  I like Fall to Pieces, but since The Last Fight is new, Keep it.  Fall to Pieces is overplayed in comparison to YGNR.

I'm not a big Fall to Pieces fan either...it's one of my least favorite VR songs, but I did like the acoustic version of it they recorded and it would change it up. Since it is one of their singles I would be surprised to see them drop it. In fact I was surprised to see them drop Dirty Little Thing, but then again that wasn't really the single th band wanted to release.

here are the 22 I prefer:

Let It Roll
Sucker Train Blues
Superhuman
The Last Fight
You Got No Right
Gravedancer
She Mine
Patience
Interstate Love Song
She Builds Quick Machines
American Man
Pills Demons Etc
Just 16
Headspace
Get Out the Door
Dirty Little Thing
Come On Come In
Fall To Pieces
Mr. Brownstone
Vasoline
Wish You Were Here
Slither

well, basically I dropped DIFTK and Big Machine... Added Come on Come In and YGNR.

Only if I were allowed to take the stools they sit on and the accoustic instruments they play and beat them about the heads vigorously upon completion.

DISCLAIMER: I realize a vast majority of the fans enjoy these momentum killing forays into what is for all intents and purposes a virtual "rest period" for those bands who choose to go down this so unrighteous live setting path.

That said, I'll stop.

And I can assure you I don't force myself to like VR. Why is that so hard to believe. I love the few songs we have heard from the 99-02 lineup of GnR, but as of this moment I prefer at least three VR songs to any of them. Of course its not fair to compare because we haven't heard final versions of any of the GnR songs and my opinion could very well change but the point still stands. Yes, VR sound different to GnR but i like lots of different types of music; I don't restrict myself. And I have no reason to force myself to like 99-02 GnR instead of VR or vice versa.

Montreal show was awesome.

Jarmo, I had to force myself to like Oh My God.. 

That's interesting because Duff said Axl wrote very little of the music. He's probably lying but how do we know who's telling the truth? It's probably somewhere in the middle.

Now if you had told me Izzy had written 41% I might have believed it. According to HTGTH's breakdown, Axl has songwriting credits on 9 songs, Izzy has 10, including one which he wrote completely. I find it hard to believe his percentage is lower than Axl. And it would have to be by a lot, according to that system.

Actually looking at that system it could be correct but its clearly biased in Axl's favour. Music is only 25%. Wtf? Lyrics and melodies combined are half the credits, which seems a bit high. As lyrics and melodis are half the whole thing its logical Axl would get most of the credit.

So Izzy, Slash and Duff could write and arrange the music for a full songs, solos, riffs, basslines, chords, etc. Axl comes in and does the lyrics and melodis, the frontman's job and he gets half the credits. Seems logically biased towards the frontman. Now, Slash may have devised it but that doesn't make it accurate.

Eh you're wrong, GnR lies says all songs were written by GnR except Mama Kin and Nice Boys. Its only HTGTH that credits Stradlin as the lone songwriter.

This is done.