Here Today... Gone To Hell!

According to Hits Daily Double, VELVET REVOLVER's "Libertad" is poised to sell around 100,000 copies in the United States during its first week of release. This is less than half of the 256,000 first-week tally registered by its predecessor, "Contraband", which landed at No. 1 on The Billboard 200 chart back in June 2004.

VELVET REVOLVER celebrated the release of "Libertad" with a special intimate club show at the famous Whisky A Go Go in Los Angeles Thursday night (July 5).

A limited edition of "Libertad" sold through Best Buy comes with a bonus DVD.

it's understandable.. when contraband came out people thought that VR would be a great band...

I think we can also chalk this up to the record industry basically being in free fall. I didn't realize how bad things really were until NIN, Manson, and now Velvet Revolver all debuted far, far below their standard and the general expectations. I'm worried for the Pumpkins now.

They are a great band! Why are people like you visiting the Velvet Revolver section if you don't even like their music?

Yeah, do you get any pleaseure in bashing VR?

It's not my favorite band in the world but there's nothing wrong with them, so leave them alone. I have to listen to the record yet, only heard a couple of songs, but I hope it's not a bad record.

Besides, in the music industry, nowadays the image is what matters, not the music per se, so people are looking for bands they can relate too visually not musically, which isreally sad.

haha cheapjons getting owned by everyone XD :rofl:

well  cheapjon made a point....

most people think contraband sucks.... i also think it sucks, but libertad is a cool record though. there probably just aren?t that many people giving them a second chance.....  it`s the same with their rock am ring performances `05 and `07...



edit: wait, it`s actually not the same, as both performances sucked. the `05 one was a little better perhaps. but many people didn`t even go to see them the second time after being dissapointed in 2005.

Most people think Contraband sucks? Care for some proof to back up that claim?

The single was a bad choice-I'm not sure there are any strong singles on this record right now-I think it's an ok record, but the video really isn't played much on vh1 either.

Jesus, am I the only person who really likes Contraband?

I like it.  Not the best they can do, but better than all the silly pop divas, boy bands, and watered down rap (not to mention nu-metal).

The record industry is in bad shape but realistically, it's not that much worse than it was when Contraband came out.  As for NIN, yeah "they" (Trent) sold worse than "they" used to at their peak but With Teeth didn't go platinum did it?  I thought it just went gold.  Year Zero is on pace to do about the same as that.  Don't forget that With Teeth had 3 straight singles hit #1 on modern rock radio, Survivalism was pretty big but Year Zero hasn't had the type of followup single success

Manson, well, nobody except die hards cares about Manson anymore.  Manson's albums haven't sold particularly well for a while now

I predicted that Libertad would sell a lot loss than their first album.  It was actually pretty easy to see coming.  Contraband was heavily hyped, there was a great "novelty factor" of combining 3 former members of one of the biggest American bands in the past 25 years, with the lead singer of another one of the biggest American bands in the past 25 years.  That alone fueled a great deal of curiousity.  You combine the hype with the curiousity/novelty factor and then add a pair of homerun, #1 hit singles, the first a hard rocker and the sceond a ballad that crossed over to pop radio, you have a recipe for a strong debut and an album with legs

Compare it to Libertad.  The curiousity has worn off.  Now the music has to stand on its own.  She Builds Quick Machines is not the type of single that makes people go "man that's an awesome song I gotta go buy that album".  It's just not.  It's high on the radio charts because RCA is pushing it.  I'm sure Last Fight will do well and will make some people go grab the album, but Last Fight is not the classic rock "power ballad" style song with mass appeal like FTP was.  You also have to take into account that Contraband, while I enjoyed it, disappointed a large number of both GnR and STP fans.  The people who bought Contraband were probably at least 80% made up of people who bought it strictly because they were fans of the bands these guys used to be in.  Those same people obviously aren't lining up to buy the new album

Now does this number include iTunes sales on it? 

no.....and Shotgun makes some very strong points. The novelty aspect has worn off...as it did for Audioslave as well. Also, the first two singles aren't near as good as FTP and Slither and big singles drive album sales.... :-\

none of ths is offical lets wait or billboard to come out then we'll know real numbers.  Also why are itunes sales and internet sales so confidential.  They need to post these numbers as well.  The band does make money off these sales as well.  The system needs to be reconfigured to include intenet sales so we can get a real read on the sales.  You stated NIN only went gold that is not true with teeth went platinum and it also sold very well digitally so what are the real numbers.  The record industry is making money with less expense and stronger profit margins.

Its a weak album and a mediocre effort.  Sales will reflect as such.

Indeed, sales are always a reflection of an album's quality!   : ok:

maybe you guys should try the velvet revolver forum if you want a bunch of VR fans.   You are on a GnR board and not every GnR fan is gonna like VR.   deal with it.

Yeah, unfortunately, there is no correlation.  I feel this album is stronger, yet it isn't doing nearly as well, apparently.  That's too bad.  I think it'll have some legs, though.

Ali

Do I hear in echo in here?

Digital album sales like Itunes are tracked separately...no doubt that has an effect on your cd sales. For the record, I really don't care what the album sales are and am not debating the quality of the overall album, just stating an opinion as to why they are substantially lower than Contraband.

... but there's only a special few who feel the need to constantly comment on something which they obviously aren't a fan of. ?It's very cute. ? :love: :-*

Yok, yok. More like a broken record. An echo at least fades away. :hihi:

it goes both ways, my friend.

the difference is, this is a GnR board and not being a fan of GnR and coming here is fucking stupid and moronic and a waste of time.    And there are quite a few who do this.     

On the other hand, this is not a Vevlet Revolver board.  So yea, not everyone is going to be a fan.  But we are all GnR fans, I would think.  :-\

Whether or not you are a VR fan wasn't the point... I get that you are a GN'R fan on a GN'R board that doesn't like VR (I think the whole world understood this the first 100 times it got posted)...? The point is that it's completely lame to hang out in the VR section to trash talk in every thread.

This would be the same as visiting the Fun N' Games section of the board and posting how much you aren't a fan of sports in every thread and remaining there to argue the point.? See how it doesn't matter that it's a GN'R Board?? It's just weak... weaker than you think Libertad is.

The single sucked, good song, bad single choice

Slither and FTP were massive singles and the only chance VR had to duplicate that was "Messages" and Get Out The Door.


U put Messages out as the first single and the album sells twice as many copies.

The industry isnt down.

Great albums still sell very very well.


Bon Jovi sold 293 thousand first week and 125 thousand the 2nd week.

So Bon Jovi's second week beat VR's first week......... :nervous: :nervous:




Can? somebody say REUNION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : ok: : ok: : ok: : ok:

D, there was a huge article in RS about how overall sales are down since 2000 and how the top selling albums now go maybe triple platinum, whereas back in 2000, there were records going 6x, 5x platinum.  Good records still sell, but not as much as they did a few years ago.

Ali

yeah but 100,000 first week would be a huge disappointment, i can guarantee u that.

I don't disagree with that.  But, I think the downward turn of the industry in general is getting worse and worse with each passing year and that is a factor.  How much of a factor, who knows?  But I believe it is a factor.

Ali

And Bon Jovi's crossover to country (which you yourself pointed out before D) probably had a BIG impact on the boost in sales.  I'm not fond of country music myself, but that's a HUGE and powerful market.  If you work your way in there and are accepted, the sales are only going to reflect that.

Contraband came out 2 years ago

I dont think the industry has declined THAT MUCH


weak first singles kill album sells. Thats a fact.

sbqm definetly not a good move.

most ppl i know are indifferent to the song. its very "meh" to them.

i just heard messages today.

after it was hyped up so much i didn't possibly think i could like it as much as everyone here.

but im converted too........still can't believe messages isnt on the album.

they could have had mary mary, or get out the door, as first single then messages as the second.

if the unforgettable Messages doesn't push another 100k, then the album truly sagged under the weight of expectations.

Im not sure how much the industry has declined, though I do recall reading that it has significantly declined in only one or two years.  But I think the first singles failure to catch on is just as responsible.  They still have the opportunity to rebound with the next two singles and hopefully they do.

^
agree

I truly love this album now.


I think the big difference with this and CB is:


On Contraband u had 3 Truly HUGE songs: Slither,FTP,YGNR

on Libertad every song is really good but there isnt outside of Messages that quintessential HIT on there that casual fans will embrace.

Libertad is a fucking brilliant album and here in the UK this fact has been acknowledged as it debuted at No.6 on the album chart yesterday, 5 places above where Contraband peaked. Not a bad performance at all for a fairly un-promoted rock album and also bear in mind that this is festival season so the albums that will be near the top of the album charts are those by bands who have just played the festivals with high levels of media coverage such as Glastonbury and T in the Park, much higher profile media coverage than Download for example so in all 6 is a highly credible performance!!!!

Took a week longer than I predicted, but of course if true love is born through predictability and repetition, my college roommate has fated me to be buried with Wakin' Up the Neighbors.... :P

100,000 is a good debut for a rock band in today's climate. I don't think people realize how much the record industry has changed even since Contraband came out. The only rock album that has sold more than Contraband since it came out was the friggen Nickleback and Daughtry CD's. Bands like RHCP, Incubus, Foo Fighters, Tool, etc. all sold less. With record sales as they are, just going platinum is a success in itself and VR will surely do that.

Tool sold 564,000 the first week in May 2006! People talk out of their ass :hihi:

Stadium Arcadium sold over 400,000 copies in the first week in the US, and has sold over 7 million copies worldwide.  And it was only released last year.  Tool's last album sold over 560,000 copies in the first week.  It's sold almost 3 million worldwide and has been out for just over a year.  So you're way off base

American Idiot, Hot Fuss, and X&Y all went platinum at least 3 times to Contraband's 2.... RHCP may have sold half of Contraband in the U.S., but it was a double CD which still counts as 2Xplatinum and they moved more than VR in worldwide sales.

The first week sales are obviously disappointing, so the hope is for a 2nd or 3rd single to catch fire. ?SBQM was really a terrible choice...

Well Libertad is shaping up to be a flop, unless word of mouth and/or The Last Fight save its ass this album won't even sniff platinum and will have to settle for just north of gold

It's understandable, people want their favorite bands to do well.  So they will try to rationalize this disappointing debut.  But 100,000 is pretty bad for a band with this kind of starpower, especially when their debut album sold so much more just a few years back.  You can bet that the label is very disappointed and I doubt VR are particularly happy with it either

I don't know what the current iTunes/internet sales are but if this gives you any idea, last year's #1 selling digital album sold approximately 198,000 copies

http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=9f8be72f-7185-4429-85d5-c96e6537244d

On a semi-related note, that shitty Hinder album went nearly double platinum  :o

Jim Bob, when did Jarmo ask you to be his personal spokesman.  You are not Jarmo, stop using his lines. 

Appetite and Hysteria didn't sell shit until SCOM and Pour Some Sugar on me came out.  The Last Fight is a break through track that will be on top 40 stations as well as rock, like Fall to Pieces did.  I think the album will pick up as the tour goes on.

You didn't get that memo? 

Fuck, I must had been temporarily banned at that time!

Yeah dude, that's another favorite of soccer moms.

I was going to bring up BJ, but D beat me to it.

I just don't know, hopefully for you guys, the next single will help out with sales.

I have a question though:  Why isn't there any promotion for this album?  I see Pumpkins' ads on bus benches, I see commercials on TV for other bands.  What gives?

They assumed everyone knew the album was coming out!

I don't think the Last Fight compares to those songs; there could be a pop from a decent single but not the type of explosion that AFD had simply because AFD was bolstered by not just one but several excellent singles. I don't think Libertad has that depth.

Wow...that's generous.  "I don't think Libertad has that depth" is like saying "I don't think this Swisher is as good a cigar as the ones that Castro smokes."   :smoking:

AFD is a totally different comparison though, because it was a debut album for a band of unknown musicians

Bringing up Hysteria's a good point in that it looked like it would fail to live up to the previous album's success.  However, there are a few big differences.   One is that Def Leppard wasn't very well known in the US prior to Pyromania, the guys in VR were true rock stars and veterans before Velvet Revolver even existed.  Def Leppard had one hit album and then kind of faded away from public consciousness by the time they came back with Hysteria.  Compared to Velvet Revolver, whose members have been involved in releasing 10 seperate albums that went at least platinum from 1987-2004, 11 if you include GnR Greatest Hits.

Def Leppard didn't have the kind of built in fanbase that VR did to begin with.  The people buying Def Leppard's album bought them because they liked Def Leppard's songs.  A lot of the people who bought VR's first album only bought it because they liked GnR and/or STP.  With Libertad, they can no longer depend on a large number of people buying their albums just because of the bands they used to be in.  The people who buy it are going to have to buy it because they like Velvet Revolver.  Now they have to "earn it" as their own entity, so to speak.  They can't just sell based on their past, which was a huge reason for the success of their first album

Hysteria also had hit single after hit single after hit single to carry it forward.  I don't see anything on Libertad aside from The Last Fight that's going to be a big followup single

It's also not 1987 anymore. ?Back then nobody would have any way to hear those songs. ?"The Last Fight" is easily accessible. ?Just about EVERYONE is on myspace these days and that song is on VR's page. ?Not saying everyone would go there to listen to it, but it can't really be compared to two HUGE songs from 20 years ago. ?Times have changed, if people like "The Last Fight" enough they'll find a way to download that song, and that song alone.

these? 2 guys below are just so fucking? :hihi: :rofl: :hihi: :rofl:


I like the band it's a good band, NOT a great band, i have their records and have seen them live? : ok:

thank you very much for telling me about people like me :D you must mean guys from sweden huh?



Yeah ok :confused: i've never bashed VR..
it's not my favourite band in the world but ok.. leave them alone? I won't ever leave them alone.. but have i hurt their feelings and you are either their big sister or their spokesperson since you're telling me that? ::)

and yeah you 2 guys can always start to read my posts in this section, if you are going to tell me about people like me please have your facts straight i don't wanna know untrue stuff about me :-*

My point was, anything can happen if the right single catches on.  A lot of times, its a song nobody expects.  Like Pour Some Sugar on me was.

The Last fight isnt a great single either.

I think its one of the weaker songs on the album to  be honest.

Its like all thats missing is church choir to do the hums etc



Messages needs to be emergency released now and re included on the album or something.

Yeah dude but there arent any Pour SOme sugar on me or SCOM's on this record.

I think it will just be a critically acclaimed album like Exile on Main St. was.  No big hits, just a lot of good tunes.  I am happy with it.  The band is happy with it.  Its okay.  As the tour progresses, album sales will pick up.

Please for the love of god, don't compare that pile of crap to Exile on Main St. Libertad is Nowhere as near as good of an album as anything the Stones have released

Well, there's nothing to be surprised... ''Libertad'' is a very weak album and VR has not the ''return of the legends'' factor anymore. People already knows that VR is not that ''rock n' roll salvation'' shit they claimed to be in the past.

I agree.  But exhile had 0 hits on it.  0, zero, zilch.  I am not saying it is that good, but a great album doesn't need hits.  Exhile didn't sell that well either.  I think the album is great.

It's weird. I've heard talks of Libertad being a better album than Contraband, but these numbers, they're so disappointing.

I think it'll do better over time.

A.K.A Once "The Last Fight" is released.

Not too surprised really. I haven't heard SBQM on the radio at all here in Australia and the album hasn't had that much promotion either.

And, I still think Contraband was a better album too.

I think it's way too early to call the album a flop. While the opening sales are admittedly disappointing, the album could still have some staying power. I know the last Buckcherry album sold a million in the states, and it took a while, via word of mouth and a couple strong, but not huge singles.

I think American Man would do really well too. Some great Slash axework and a nice, tight chorus.

Not a bad suggestion.  I still think "Get Out The Door" is the consensus third single, but a fourth - if there is one - is very much wide open.  I think "Let It Roll" and "Just Sixteen" are good contenders and "She Mine" seems to be a band favorite.  "American Man" is one of my favorites from the album, but its verses are difficult to understand and its breakdown might not be single-friendly. 

I think Id ultimately go with "Just Sixteen." 

I'm surprised "Mary Mary" isn't getting more run beyond the songs mentioned above.

Extremely catchy,great chorus.

^
I still dont agree completely.

Its a good chorus, Not as great as u guys rave about in my opinion.


I just now figured out "Get Out The Door" is about a tranvestite!!!!!!! that could be a funny video.


Just Sixteen isnt that good in my opinion, I hate the lyrics.

I cant understand how any GNR fan could dislike "Just Sixteen."  I also think the lyrics are good.

I like "Mary, Mary" quite a bit as well, but it just doesnt strike me as a single.  I wish I had an explanation as to why, but I dont. 

Does anybody else think that "Mary, Mary" sounds somewhat like a hybrid between "Big Machine" and "Superhuman" and "Illegal i Song?"  The intro and verses have a bit of a "Big Machine" feel; the pre-chorus has the high-pitched, Alice In Chains "Again"-styled "ooh oohs" last heard in "Superhuman;" and the ending has the same kind of repeatedly yelled line "Illegal i Song"s did.  I realize that these are basically VR conventions to some extent, but those three songs come to mind each time I hear "Mary, Mary."

I like Just 16, and I agree it's one of the better tracks on Libertad, but I dislike Dave's fuzzy/farting guitar sound. I usually pan it over to one side so I can just hear Slash's playing.

Dave's guitar annoys me a fair bit on this album and with Slash's cleaner tone, it doesn't mix very well.

Yeah, same here. I noticed that too. On 'Just 16' as well as the start of the solo in GraveDancer. First time I heard it, I thought my speakers were distorting.. :no:

This is Who Magazine's review of She Builds Quick Machines:

" Three ex-Guns N' Roses members and an ex-Stone Temple Pilots singer do the expected, producing a song that's three- quarters hair metal, one quarter post-grunge. It's also four quarters stereotyped and dispiriting. 1/5"

Nope I still listen to it and enjoy it..  I sure as hell didn't expect libertad to sell anything near contraband...

There's isn't near the hype or publicity this time around... They have a core audience and will do well live they just won't sell a ton of albums unless they had a scom that everyone loved..

I always love hair metal refrences.. I guess anyone who ever sang or played rock in the 80's and had their hair teased was hair metal''..

Libertad is way too pop sounding. Sorry, it's true. Contraband was way more rocking and had catchier tunes. Very disappointing in my book, and I'm a big fan of pretty much everyone in the band. Slash is God. Unfortunately, even God can't save this one. It's so pop that I could easily hear it in a radio line-up of Avril Lavigne(?), Blink-182, and Velvet Revolver. So much for getting a great rock album this summer.

i agree its pretty commericial sounding with the majority of its songs containing lame chorus's and weak not very powerful guitar driven verses

Yeah, I thought this one was to be the answer to Contraband's light-on-guitar's sound. My band has no issues doing a cover of almost anything from Contraband, I couldn't pick a single song from Libertad worth learning.

Well there are enough good songs on Libertad like Pill demon etc, American man, Gave dancer, let it roll, Get out the door. Most of those songs are better then most songs on Controband, so i think the problem is the quality of your band who can't play the songs jak0lantern01 ? ;)

i dont think thats what he means, he means they dont want to play them cause its all laid back weak rock, not hard rock which is what he wants to play.

I haven't bought the record yet and don't know that I will.  For me it's mainly the first single.  Sure I don't think Contraband is a spectacular album but I would have given this album a chance if I'd been excited about the single.  Maybe I'll still buy it if I hear some other songs that catch my ear.  I'm just one example out of about 156,000 that didn't turn out the first week this time around.

would they release Messages as a single and they would sell and sell and sell and sell........

Tumbling Dice

it actually came out 3 years ago. damn time flies!
but otherwise, I agree with you.

Owkee. Well Let it Roll is pretty hard. of course no hard rock, but Contraband wasn't like that two :S Only Slither a little bit.

I think this album blows away Contraband. So many great songs on it. Only the wrong choice for a single (SBQM)

Final numbers are in.  Top 10

1   T.I.   ATLANTIC/ATL G   465,984   --
T.I. VS. T.I.P.

2   HANNAH MONTANA 2 - MEET MILEY   WALT DISNEY RECORDS   186,567   -42%
SOUNDTRACK

3   KELLY CLARKSON   RCA/RMG   116,364   -61%
MY DECEMBER

4   VELVET REVOLVER   RCA/RMG   98,121   --
LIBERTAD

5   BON JOVI   ISLAND   94,532   -24%
LOST HIGHWAY

6   KELLY ROWLAND   COLUMBIA   83,746   --
MS. KELLY

7   BRAD PAISLEY   RCA/RMG   66,507   -16%
5TH GEAR

8   AMY WINEHOUSE   UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC   57,730   -6%
BACK TO BLACK

9   LINKIN PARK   WARNER BROS.   56,210   -1%
MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

10   WHITE STRIPES   WARNER BROS.   54,725   -27%
ICKY THUMP

http://hitsdailydouble.com/sales/salescht.cgi

Wow, I'm disappointed.? But, hopefully the album will have some legs.? I think it will.? Plus they'll tour for a long time, so it'll go platinum at the least.

Ali

Top 4 is cool but the numbers can't be considered cool by any means.

It'll be interesting to see how numbers go this week, I'm thinking 65-75% drop off.

That's usually what happens... platinum is a long ways away... if one of their singles doesn't catch fire, they may just reach gold.

It's a shame, I think this album is much much better than Contraband (for my personal tastes).  I wonder if this album came out first with the hype and promotion there was for Contraband what the reaction to it would be.

It would help if RCA properly promoted it. 

Aren't they scheduled to play Kimmel later this week?  Hopefully they don't play SBQM, and do the right thing and go with "The Last Fight".  I think that will be the biggest hit commercially from the album.  Get it out there now, we've heard the first single for long enough.

Thursday.  Would be dumb to play SBQM again, since they played it over at Leno's just two weeks ago.  But they usually play 5 songs at Kimmels, and the performance can be seen in its entirety over at Kimmel's site.

Really?  They only air one on the show though right?  Hopefully that one is "The Last Fight".  Which by the way is the first song that comes on when you visit www.velvetrevolver.com.  Good choice.

yeah.. they also play SBQM and she mine.. and since SBQM was the first single, last fight is told to be the second and the band wanted she mine to be the first single i think she mine will be the third

Since the record company tried to do its research and failed miserably why don't they let VR take the regns and do what they want.  If this album doesn't do well I think they will go back into the studio with Mike Clink this time and rush out a more over the top experimental record.  So RCA should just shut the fuck up now since they have already fucked over VR in the opening week of sales.  The only reason anyone I know, knows the album was cming out was because I told them.   This band is still young and needs the backing and promotion.  I am sure the AIC tour will help alot though.  Next time RCA does research on the single how bout they ask real VR fans not just anyone or at least fans of rock music.

The promotion has been really low compared to Contraband.  You have to wonder why.  It's possible the label didn't really believe in that album.  I mean they can dump all the money into promotion they want, but you have to give people a reason to buy the album.  At the end of the day there aren't really any great singles that are going to drive album sales.  There are songs where people would go "that's a cool song".  I don't hear any songs on here that are going to make your average rock listener go "I gotta pick up that album"

Im really happy with Libertad hitting number 6 in te UK chart. It shows me there is still a good fan base for straight up rock music. Especially considering the musical climate in the uk.

And I agree about promotion, or the fact that ther wasnt any at all in the uk other than little bits in magazines

Is Velvet now reduced to just a great live show? 

I love the album.

i love the album too, i think its better than contraband (which i also love)...i'm very surprised they didnt debut at at least # 2, and only 98,000. i think its apparent now that the first single choice was not very good. they should have gone with "get out the door" instead of the "slither-clone," only weaker

VELVET REVOLVER's sophomore album, "Libertad", sold 93,000 copies in the United States during its first week of release to land at position No. 5 on The Billboard chart. This is a little over one-third of the 256,000 first-week tally registered by its predecessor, "Contraband", which landed at No. 1 on The Billboard 200 chart back in June 2004.

VELVET REVOLVER celebrated the release of "Libertad" with a special intimate club show at the famous Whisky A Go Go in Los Angeles Thursday night (July 5). Check out pictures from Wire Image, WENN, Getty Images.

A limited edition of "Libertad" sold through Best Buy comes with a bonus DVD.

The first single from the album is "She Builds Quick Machines". Watch the promotional video for the song at YouTube.

A nine-minute video interview with VELVET REVOLVER guitarist Dave Kushner, conducted by a drunken Finn from Finland's Get In The Pit magazine at this year's Provinssirock festival (June 15-17) in Sein?joki, Finland, has been posted at this location.

VELVET REVOLVER will appear on the July 12-13 edition of ABC's "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" and begins a North American tour with ALICE IN CHAINS on August 5 in Baltimore.

I'm sure these numbers are considered disappointing, but the entire industry is in shambles right now. ?A few years ago 100,000 copies wouldn't have gotten you in the Top 10.

damn thats pretty low,  i woulda thought they would sell more than that,  at this rate do u think the album will even go gold?

of course the album will go gold, when they release "the last fight" it will pick up steam, plus the summer tour starts in a day or 2 so sales from their great live show will boost from that as well. i believe it will be platinum before the end of the year despite the disappointing 1st week sales

well if the industry didnt charge so much, and didnt rip fans and bands off so much, it would be in a better state.

Let's be perfectly honest.  Most buyers of music are ridiculously stupid.  They'll buy whatever is played on MTV and seems popular.  A LOT of good albums don't sell, because the label doesn't push it or because their label is too small to push it against the big label releases.  But if the label wants it to go platinum, all they have to do is support it and people will buy it.

I like all the guys (well maybe not Scott or Dave that much) in Velvet Revolver, but this is a fucking weak album man!!! It's funny how Duff and Slash are always tallking about being rock n roll, etc and they come out with a lame turd like this.  I wonder if Scott is somehow bringing them down?? The album isn't horrible, but it's not very good either.  Just a bunch of lame/bland songs.  Except for Messages, good song.  What's up with leaving your only really good song off the album? Are they that dumb? Or am I missing something?

I'd like to know how have been the Libertad advertising in America, have been stronger than Contraband?
For example, Advertising of Libertad here in Chile have been = 0, in Argentina and Brazil is stronger I think so...

I think it's a little more complicated than that otherwise every album that gets promotion would go platinum.  There are a lot of heavily promoted albums that flop (and a lot of other products in other industries that are heavily advertised and fail).  It takes a lot of combined factors to get a hit album, even though the "true" quality of the album or the music isn't high on that list, it is still important that the targeted demographic/fanbase thinks the album is good if you want repeat business

Ironically even though they sued to prevent its release, Greatest Hits did a great job of promoting Velvet Revolver.  It was selling very well and GnR especially the classic lineup was getting more publicity than they had in years.  So of course the band with Slash and Duff, about to release their debut, benefitted from that

Promotion only works if people buy into the promotion.  The demographic that they have to sell Libertad to is the same one they sold Contraband to.  But RCA put all their eggs in one basket with the way they marketed Velvet Revolver.  So thanks in no small part to the way Contraband was marketed, a lot of paying customers were disappointed in the product.  They went in expecting something it to combine the music of GnR with the vocals and hooks of STP and got something else. 

A lot of paying customers were disappointed in the results of Contraband.  Now you combine all that with a lead single that a lot of people think is corny and lame, and you see the results.  Despite how amazing a lot of hardcore Slash fans who love everything he does think this album is, most people just don't care and they're not going to be fooled twice into believing that this band is awesome just because of the bands these guys used to be in. 

And making an album of full of poppy, unaggressive music sure isn't going to win back people who bought the first album because they're Guns N' Roses fans.    No matter how hard they marketed this album it never would've sold even close to as well as Contraband

Then why does someone like Creed and Nickelback sell 6 million copies of an album?

Even if Libertad sucks, which it doesn't, it would sell better if it got more promotion.

Yes, my explanation was an oversimplification, but I do think that simply promoting it to the musically retarded (MTV fanatics) will get results.  Of course, it was a bit easier back when MTV still played music.  :hihi: 

Well actually Creed selling 6 million was their lowest sales total.  They sold over 30 million albums on only 3 albums.  Regardless of their talent, that's pretty impressive.  And to answer your question, apparently mainstream people like their music.  They put out accessible rock songs that people/radio ate up time and time again. 

Because they have easily digestable, catchy, inoffensive hit single after hit single

Their music is shit in my opinion and yours and many others.  But the people who buy their albums like them, and there are a lot of those people.  If not Nickelback would've faded into obscurity a long time ago.  They've been big since 2001, with multi-platinum albums released in 2001, 2003, and 2005. 

I think Nickelback is lame.  But the people they are marketed to like them, and they don't shit on their fanbase, and because of that their albums continue to sell and sell and sell. 

Contraband didn't live up to the hype and expectations of a large portion of its target audience.  So the second time around they aren't selling nearly as well.  And make a softer, less aggressive album sure as hell isn't going to win back GnR fans that were disappointed with Contraband.  SBQM is a "hit" because RCA has used its power to get it into heavy rotation on the radio.  It's a "hit" but nobody actually likes it

Look, Slash and Duff and Scott Weiland's fame and popularity has already peaked.  They're not going to get anymore popular at this point.  Most people who actually care know that Velvet Revolver has a new album out.  A large portion of the 3 million people worldwide who bought Contraband just aren't going to buy this album, no matter how hard they market it

But if songs like "American Man" and "Mary Mary" got a big push, more people would buy the album.

It hasn't sold as well initially, but perhaps we should give it a while before giving final judgement on the performance of this record.  It may be a matter of proper promotion, at least in part.  I haven't really seen any promotion for this record, to be honest.

Ali

the most intelligent and objective words here in my opinion ?: ok: :yes:

Meanbone1980 (I assume it's the year of your birth, junior), the reason why we (my band) wouldn't touch anything from Libertad is due to the fact that it's lame pop-rock. I'm not going to sit here and gush over an album that sounds sub-par like some others here do just to say I like it. But, judging by what FM radio is offering the masses today, I guess it is a wee bit better than Nickelback. So to say it's too hard to play, I don't think so, not by a long shot. My preferred speed these days is more along the lines of Avenged Sevenfold, I enjoy the challenge of playing their stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love Slash and all and have finally broken away from his style after years of emulation, but go learn your pentatonics and blues scales, and you've got 90% or better of his solos. I'll also throw Slash a bit more credit, just so I'm not sitting here sounding like I'm slagging him or something, but Axl needs three lead guitars on stage to cover the ground that Slash did originally. That, and I still am looking forward to seeing VR in August when they're in N.Y. Libertad is a nice attempt at something 'different', but these guys should really stick to what they do best, hard rock, not easy listening.

Okay, but SBQM got a big push, they got it onto CSI, it's high on the album charts.  Sure, a few more high charting singles will make some more people go out and buy the album.  But a band that already has a fairly clear, well established fanbase/demographic like VR, it's all about getting repeat business from that demographic.  I don't see Mary, Mary or American Man making a bunch of GnR fans that were letdown by Contraband go "I gotta go buy that album!".  As I said, their target audience for this album is exactly the same target audience for Contraband.  And for several different reasons, a lot of those people just aren't going to buy this album

I've never thought of "hits" that way.  :rofl:

They force this material down everyone's throat with no other options, how can it not be a hit? It's called corporate radio for the masses. There's a reason why cheeseball bands like Nickelback can continue on.........

It's sad but true man

It happens all the time.  These radio stations play what the record labels want them to play.  Once in a while you see a hit song come out of nowhere with no label promotion because the listeners demand it, like Buckcherry did with Crazy Bitch last year, but mostly what gets played on the radio is the result of record label pressures.  Oh sure, "payola" is illegal but it still happens rampantly  8)

The 2 week old Lost highway by Bon jovi sold more copies this week than Libertad's debut

bon jovi's 3rd week outsold Libertad's debut. Kinda embarasing

Brutal... In fact, I don't like the album anymore because of this!

Here's an article that's related (about VR debuting #2 in Canada behind Bon Jovi):


Velvets can't shoot down Bon Jovi

By JOHN WILLIAMS
Senior Editor, JAM! Showbiz
   
Velvet Revolver

Rock 'n roll baddies Velvet Revolver shot up the Canadian charts this week, but couldn't pierce the No. 1 spot in the land.

The band's sophomore CD "Libertad" debuted at No. 2 with 11,000 in sales, behind Bon Jovi's "Lost Highway" (16,000), which remained at No. 1 for a third consecutive week.

Velvet Revolver failed to match the successful debut of their first album, "Contraband," which checked in at No. 1 back in June of 2004, according to Nielsen SoundScan data.

Unfortunately, it was the same story down south for the Velvets. "Libertad" checked in at No. 5 in the U.S. with 92,000 in sales, far from the No. 1 debut of "Contraband," which had 256,000 in first week sales, according to Billboard.com.

Back in Canada, Claude Dubois' "Duos Dubois" and Rihanna's "Good Girl Gone Bad" both climbed up one position to No. 3 and No. 4, respectively, while the White Stripes' "Icky Thump" was bumped from No. 3 to No. 5.

After premiering at No. 2 last week, Kelly Clarkson's latest disc "My December" went cold, sinking four spots to No. 6, while rapper T.I.'s "T.I. vs. T.I.P." had the second biggest entry at No. 7. 
 

Michael Buble's "Call Me Irresponsible" dropped from No. 6 to No. 8, likewise for Avril Lavigne's "The Best Damn Thing," which slipped from No. 7 to No. 9, and Linkin Park rounded out the top 10 at No. 10.

Other notable debuts included Silverstein's "Arrivals & Departure" at No. 25, the "Transformers" soundtrack at No. 27, and the Chemical Brothers' "We Are the Night" at No. 39.

In the U.S., T.I. came in at No. 1, followed by Miley Cyrus' double disc "Hannah Montana 2/Meet Miley Cyrus" in second, Kelly Clarkson in third, and Bon Jovi in fourth.

Velvets can't shoot down Bon Jovi

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/V/Velvet_Revolver/2007/07/11/4331176-ca.html

VR debut at #2 in Canada about 5,000 back of Bon Jovi for #1.

You already said this in the album sales thread, why would it warrant its own thread?

That's a secondary thing. Libertad rocks, that's all that matters!

VR :love:

all i know is the bonus track called messages will be a classic, who cares if its not number 1, theres too much downloading,

not rare at all, Bon Jovi, like it or not, its a major band.

another Bon Jovi thread  :hihi:

Bon Jovi plays in football stadiums and has a huge following.  Nothing to be ashamed of.

Bon Jovi was a good band, today its music is crap. Velvet Revolver music is very much better than the music that Bon Jovi does today...in this second millenium only Velvet Revover and Tha darkness have tried to bring back the classic rocker sounds and I say thanks for that.

For those who brought up marketing, consider this. Not only did Bon Jovi come to market with little to no marketing themselves, they also came to market with a confusing record that didn't get much play on either target station (country or pop) and they still debuted at #1 then went on to out sell VR.

I don't consider myself a Bon Jovi fan overall so please don't think I'm defending them or saying they're album is better then VRs either. Other then the first single their album is absolute garbage, it just happened to sell better. Why? I don't know.

I know at least here in Detroit the rock stations have been supporting the hell out of VR and Libertad.

Maybe I'm missunderstanding you, Bon Jovi little to no marketing?  Jon was on American Idol, played a new tune on there.  He was on just about every major daytime talk show you could imagine.  Did an unplugged session that aired on three different networks.  Is that not marketing/promotion?

Rolling Stone Rock&Roll Daily

Velvet Revolver Has Weak Week, LL Cool J Teams Up With 50 Cent, Pussycat Doll Goes Solo

T.I.?s abbreviation-heavy T.I. vs. T.I.P. was king of the chart, selling 468,000 copies for a number-one debut. Velvet Revolver?s Libertad entered the chart at number five with 92,000 units sold, nearly a third of the copies the band?s Contraband moved its first week of release in 2004.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2007/07/11/velvet-revolver-has-weak-week-ll-cool-j-teams-up-with-50-cent-pussycat-doll-goes-solo/

that's normal, shit sells more than good music in general.

too bad Libertad has not more success than Contraband,
because it's a good album, much better than the first one.

anyway, i'm happy for Slash & Duff, because with this one
they prove the flame is still here.

Nah, but their music is. :rofl:

Enough of the Bon Jovi talk, plenty of that in the Bad Obsession forum.

Back on topic please.

Good old Ozzy Osbourne sold 150K his first week just last month.  White Stripes sold 223,000.  Paul McCartney with 161,000.  Maroon 5 with 429,000.  Linkin Park 625,000.  NIN with 187,000.  The new Smashing Pumpkins album is on pace for 150K. 

Going back to last year, Tool with 564K.  Chili Peppers with 442K.  Audioslave with 150K.  Pearl Jam with with 279K. 

There are probably others that I'm missing

The music industry is in decline for sure.  But that's a lot of rock albums that span a lot of different styles and appeal to a lot of different demographics

Yikes, that doe not bode well for VR unless all the fans just aren't going to buy it at once.

btw that new VR's album is totally mediocre.. too bad I was expecting more from this band

Thankz By BAD NEWS...

 :(

HBK *

I mean actual traditional marketing of the new album. Your right, they did play the first single on AI, but that's the only place they played it. Every other time they (he) managed to play music, it was usually an old single.

Not to mention the fact that they aren't even gonna tour for this record until like winter.

Yeah I bet u have listened to every BJ album to be able to stand behind that opinion? ::) Check out Lost Highway, The fuckin album is brilliant. : ok:




Singles MEAN EVERYTHING in today's music.

Bon Jovi's Crush sold 2 million in the US because it had a huge single in "Its My Life"? The next album Bounce only sold 800,000 cause the single "Everyday" didnt take off.

Have A Nice Day has sold 2 million in the US because after the first single stiffed, Who Says You cant Go Home turned out to be one of BJ's most successful songs ever and it pushed the album to double platinum.

Same with Lost Highway, Jon Promoted the Shit out of this album EVERYWHERE, He is also a big enough star where he can go on shows like Oprah Winfrey etc.


VR have not done shit to promote this album. one apperance on Jay Leno is all I can think of.


SBQM is a good song, horrible single, the video sucks


So basically Libertad is filled with a bunch of good songs but nothing that captures the public's hearts. "Messages" would do that.? The Last Fight won't. Its a good song but nothing thats gonna be earth shattering.

I saw it was #5 on the BB chart 200 at 92,000, but was anyone suprised.. ?Amazing it sold that well IMO.. Contraband was the true suprise to me...

I really think Velvet Revolver is a group that could sell 10,000-15,000 tickets a show and play 60 cities in the states and get less then half the fans to buy..Something about seeing slash n scott play compared to owning their albums.... It's like KISS could tour again sell out 50,000 seaters then release an album and sell 500,000 total when all is said n done..

... Because "Everyday" was just a weaker retread of "It's My Life"... kind of like "SBQM" and "Slither...

The Last Fight still has the potential, I say they just skip waiting for SBQM to die out and just release it now.

I thought that SQBM (after hearing the entire album) was one of the most obvious songs to be released as a first single...nevertheless The Last Fight has the most potential off that entire record imo.

Anyway 100.000 records is still a good amount, I'd like to see other rock bands sell that amount of records in their first week.

messages would only take off in america.

It's a decent number, but it is less than what it could have been... and... you should've read this post:

yes but those bands have bigger fanbases and have many many albums worth. VR, althought comprised of people who had past fame, dont have the strength of back catalogue those bands listed above do, plus VR's new album was lame so that doesnt help them very much either.

Pumpkins got a very bad review  in the local paper  here for their new album. I have not been following them for years, but based on the review, I would not buy the new CD.

I honestly think it has everything to do with the promotion of the album. I mean fuck all the talk of intrigue and the music industry 3 years ago compared to today, "Slither" was a perfect lead single. It is a pretty great rockin tune and fits radio very well. And I guess where intrigue does play a role is there was a lot more articles on them before the album came out because of their pasts which is free press. I really believe if they had picked "Just 16" or "Get Out The Door" or "Let It Roll" as the lead single they could have easily sold another 50,000 copies first week. Still not close to Contraband but definately better. I think one of those 3 songs, especially the 1st 2 (even tho Let it roll is my favorite of the 3) would have had an infinately better chance of catching on rock radio. I don't even think SBQM should have made the album, especially considering how much better GAA$L and Messages are and they didn't. It even sounds like a b-side. I don't think theres too many people who were on the fence about picking the album up and said "SBQM is fuckin sweet. I am definately gonna get it now!"

Not an SP fan, but I wouldn't do anything based on a review.  Music critics strike me as a bunch who couldn't cut it as rock stars/musicians, and so want to bring down a few giants.  The internet makes it so easy to hear something before you buy it...I'd just do my own internal review!

Keep in mind that when it comes to presently active rock stars that have real talent, Billy Corgan is second only to Axl Rose when it comes to being hated by the press

While I wouldn't call Libertad a flop just yet, I'd say it's in critical condition.

The label needs to get behind the album, like, now, if they want it to go platinum.

It's a shame. I was just listening to it yesterday and it's a great album.

today I bought the album with the bonus DVD and I didn?t find Messages in there... in which edition can you find it?  ???

Just curious, what more would you like them to do? 

They should release "The Last Fight" now and then the third single shortly after, not have a gap. Maybe an MTV special, more billboards, more adds, etc.

even with the lower sales Contraband didn't take off until Fall To Pieces was released. They had Set Me Free and Slither before that.

Give it time its the first week.

Maybe a new single release is in order, they did play the "The Last Fight" at the end of Kimmel last night.

Can't see an MTV special, VH1 covered the formation of the band so why would MTV (or whomever) be interested in any kind of "in depth" look a second time around?

Billboards and adds are always good, no argument there.

The tour with AIC starts in 3 weeks and is easily the best bill out there rock show wise to look forward to in North America this summer, I'm sure that will generate plenty of interest in the new record.

Still not sure why some are so panicked, I seriously doubt the label or band for that matter consider
anything on life support at this stage of the game.

It's not a failure just yet, but they do need a single with legs. I'm really hoping "The Last Fight" is it, although maybe the ELO cover would have been better.

I expect "The Last Fight" will probably go to radio to coincide with the AIC tour, whether it takes off or not will be a good way to guage if the record has any kind of legs underneath it.

Don't think they're anything they can do. ?My experience is that Contraband was much better else than anything else rock when it came out but on a standalone basis, the album was quite weak. ?I have habit of playing records all the time when I buy one. That one didn't last more than a few days. ?I doubt this is a unique experience.

Given that background, I was interested but skeptical in hearing the new material. I saw/heard the guys on Jay Leno (I think) and that song they played was really bad. Assuming that should be one of the best songs of the record, that leads me to think the whole record can't be that good. ?No way I'm buying that record.

It's a good solid album.  Not spectacular, but good.  I remember Mick Wall describing it as "fun".  That pretty much sums it up.  There really aren't any songs on the album that I dislike, then again there aren't many that I love either.  Good songs, not great.  I still like Contraband better, but MOST people seem to prefer Libertad.

After hating the album for a week I am now madly in love with it.

I actually love every single song *which was predicted by someone on here*


Anyhow:


The Last Fight to me is not a good single.

ITs actually one of my least fav on the album and definitely my least fav ballad.

It starts out really good, the thing is, It just never goes anywhere


This is the type of song I can picture turning the radio dial halfway through cause it just kinda stays the same and never really does anything to make u go crazy.


Fall To Pieces was an excellent ballad. It had SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much emotion and relatable lyrics.

I just don't think many can relate to The Last Fight's lyrics.


This is why Messages needs to be on the album.

Messages would make this album explode.


I have been having one of the worst days of my life today, I mean really shitty day where I just felt like driving my car over a cliff.

I listened to "Messages" over and over and over and I cried like a kid for about 10 minutes.

I was thinking of "What If" I died right now and the lines in that song just melted me and would do the same for so many people.


This song doesnt have to be about 9/11 which is where they fucked up

I took the lines


You made my life worth living? ?and I pray someday u will be happy, without me


As in, If I end my life right now, My Fiancee, My mom, brothers, those lines would be for them u know? They made my life worth living this long and someday I hope u will be happy without me.  Its like a big fuckin apology........


those are lines everyone would scream out loud and can relate to. Melodies, guitar parts and lyrics like that sell the fuck out of records.

Libertad has fallen out of the iTunes top 10

http://www.apple.com/itunes/weekly/

It's no surprise.  I thought about buying it, but it was $14 or $18 (depending on which version), and I could fill out my Aerosmith collection for $11.  That's a no brainer, that is!

i thought contraband was fucking awesome...this new album blows....

there are a few reasons that contraband did better than libertad in its first week......

1. contraband is better than libertad

2. cd sales are going down every year because of downloading.

3. She builds quick machines was a shitty choice as a first single

4. the single got no radio airlplay.

5.  this is probably the most important reason.....Guns N Roses are around touring and being active....alot of the curiosity about VR was because GNR were nowhere to be found...

Lets get real people... Contraband was a solid album... I like it better then Libertad

Libertad took 3 years in full to come out, and it wasn't worth it, even thought it's a good record.

Sales do matter and this week we all saw that..

Give me a break... ::)

LOL omg, what planet are you living on, I hope that was a joke

Nope, just your own wishful thinking.

That may be a rash statemet, BUT I've gotta say I'm a GNR fan first and foremost and back when Contraband came out and GNR were in hibernation I was completely stoked for the album.  This time around I was excited, I played it for about a week straight in my car but soon switched back to NEW GNR.  Bottom line, I'm not AS excited as long as Axl is active.  So that statement holds SOME truth, at least with me.

I think to a lot of GnR fans it very much holds true.  The rest of the world, maybe not.   

Who cares about sales..I liked CB....i think it had 4 Very good songs and slither was a big hit and helped the CD really take off... I really love Libertad..i think its great...atm i really like every song apart from maybe 2 of them..and i Really like about 5...so i dont care about sales.. :peace: Its another Great album..much better than most other music bands out there atm.

Have you checked figures for Bon Jovi's Lost Highway ?

what wishful thinking?? I had a bet with my friend that VR would debut at number 1 ahead of T.I's new album..and I lost and had to pay him...I wanted this record to do well, and considering the first one did over 250,00 the first week i thought this one would do way better....personally i was less stoked about this record because there are new GNR songs out and they are touring....and no matter how much you want to defend libertad it is nowhere near as good as contraband...its like me saying that Lies is better than Appetite....wake up.....the funny thing is you guys think im attacking VR meanwhile I have seen them in concert 7 times and bought both records the second they came out...im just stating some reasons as to why this record flopped....93,000 for a band that once sold 250,000 only a few years back is a failure....so far...RCA did a real shitty job of promoting it too

I say they need to basically relaunch the album. Another single right away, DEFINATELY NOT a ballad, simple cheap video since they tried going all out on the last one and it doesn't seem to be getting much play, keep up on the appearances as much as possible, and the label should put some ads in magazines and on television. I personally like the album alot and even tho I would like it to be successful, most bands I listen to aren't that successful ever so it doesn't mean the world to me or anything. However if I was at RCA or one of the guys in VR I think this is the route they should go.

Well, Linkin Park sold three million copies already....

Uggh.

(http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/USPics40/perot2.jpg)

Now that's just sad...

i think libertad is 10 times better than contraband, i definitely like it.

Libertad is such an average album that I think it will be the death of this band as we know it

I really really love Libertad now.


I listened to it at work today and people at work Loved it.


This one guy i work with went crazy for "The Last Fight" He wanted to hear it over and over.

I've tried pretty hard D

It just ain't happening

I hear a bored, generic effort.

Last fight is basically Sour Girl and I'm sure a lot of people will like when it's overplayed on the radio ( it will be)

I guess my problem with album is that it sounds like a Weiland solo album and Slash sound like a random guitar player backing him up, and that's a shame

Nothing random about Can't Get You Out of My head or messages.

Or Let it Roll.  Or American Man. 

Slash is Slash.  I agree though there is a lot of Weiland.

libertad has 2 versions most other cd's do not and they still have 2 cd's in the top 30 on itunes check it out.

well actually 30 and 52 now

I haven't seen the Australian charts, but when I was at my local cd store last week, Libertad was positioned at number 10 on the wall amongst the top 10 albums.

I doubt GnR has anything to do with it, they are touring Japan, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

Libertad drops 66% from last week, with a second week sales total of 32,946.  Brutal

http://hitsdailydouble.com/sales/salescht.cgi

ouch, that hurts :(

I think they would have done better if they released Let It Roll or something else as a single.   

Agreed. I think they'll have to put out the next single sooner than planned.

Attention RCA, your rock band's album is on life support... please release a new single.

yes a new single.
and a good one this time, thx.

mary mary for example.

I know it's all down to personal taste and personal opinion, but that song is rubbish. :hihi:

I disagree with the notion that they have to release a big rocker, but if they were to, I have to say that "Mary, Mary" is not the answer.  The answer would be in my estimation to be "Let It Roll".

I think to help the album's sales, "The Last Fight" is the answer.

Ali

Your personal taste is the same as mine, I guess because I think that rubbish is being too kind for that song

this is crazy that libertad is doing so badly....when contraband came out NOBODY but hardcore GNR and STP fans even knew who they were...i remember having to explain to everyone who Velvet Revolver was months after contraband came out.....now that they are an established band i thought this record would be doing alot better......

My favorite tune on the record, love it.

I'm happy if you find enjoyment from it, but it does nothing for me at all.

Is it in the top 20?

I love Mary Mary too!  Seems like I would see it in a movie or something.

To get more sales release "Last Fight" now!!!!!!!!!! 

Did the leak hurt sales?

I don't think it can be used as an excuse.

SBQM just didn't catch on to the extent Slither did, simple as that.

Plenty of time to rebound, new single and tour will surely shift some units.

That's true.  I just hope nobody heard the leak, then was just like "fuck it".  It was a very easy leak to get your hands on and pretty high quality.  They need to start the pr machine on the tour with AIC.

My favorite tune on the record, love it.

Agreed, it's one of my personal favourites too... I'm not sure how it would do on the radio though


No, it has dropped to 21

Obviously the first single has no legs.  I haven't heard the album yet.  Is there another track that could save it like how "Crazy Bitch" brought Buckcherry's album out of sales Siberia?

No song on that record is going to "save" it....they are all just too bland. No tour, no promotion....no nothing. The record just lacks intensity. It's rock by numbers-not bad, not good...just there. Sorry.? :-\ However, you really shouldn't care about sales. If you like it, you like it. Although Slash and Duff are surely disappointed (I don't give two shits what Scott and Matt think), whether they sell 250,000 or 2.5 million, I have a feeling they are doing alright financially. : ok:

Youve said the same about Contraband, and it didnt work out the same way.

Your opinion just isnt as definitive as you wish it was.  Sorry  :-\

I didn't mean it that way.  8) I just meant that it is pretty bland to me and evidently a lot of other people. "Sorry" was to sensitive fans like yourself who like the record. I said if people like it, they shouldn't worry how it sells. I like a lot of bands that don't sell.

The sales aren't close to Contraband in any way shape or form-did I miss something? ???

Yes, you did.  You thought Contraband was bland as well, and it sold very well.  So your own opinion of whats bland, no matter how many people you think agree with you, isnt a good means of determining why an album isnt selling. 

i like contraband more.. was generic but powerful
libertad sounds like nickelback with more guitars

The Last Fight is number on RollingStone.com for the Editor's choice of song.


I think it can be a HUGE hit and save the record.


Singles drive album sales.

Booker, how's this....I think the album sucks ass......I don't know why it isn't selling though! Better? :peace:

it just doesn't pay to be diplomatic anymore....

Yep, so do tours.

singles do drive sales, probably more than tours in this situation. People are going to go see them regardless of whether they love the album or not...old school fans just want to see Slash or Scott or whoever. The Last Fight could help but they should make a move. I don't see it being another Fall to Pieces but what do I know...right Booker? ;D

I didnt think so either but I am telling u, I work with nothing but Christian Rock people and people who like shitty Indy/acoustic type music and they FUCKIN LOVED "The Last Fight" when I played it. They all *8 people* wanted me to burn them copies of the song.

So it seems like one of those that will make non fans take notice.

It took me a few listens, but I dig it.  I just came to the realization that these guys wanted to make a fun hard rock record and they pulled it off.  Slash is all over the place but I've got to say from a songwriters standpoint I never really dug Scotts lyrics because I couldn't figure out what the hell he was trying to get across.  But with this record Scott fuckin' shines.  His vocals are top notch, dare I say better than any STP record and his lyrics are great.  They make sense to me.

American Man and Grave Dancer are superb.  And I love the hidden track.  Very "Goats Head Soup" era Stones.

Well, Libertad debuted at #5 selling 92,000 in week 1... Week 2 brought 33,000 in sales and the album dropped to #21...  At this pace, by week 3, the album will be on par with GNR Greatest Hits (which is #1 on the Pop Catalog charts selling + 10,000 per week)... 

To what do you attribute this lack of support?  I think the album rocks! 

The band is selling out shows... (the band sold out three 30,000 seat arenas)
http://www.antimusic.com/news/07/july/14recap04.shtml

Why are fans not supporting this album?  Yes, PR is not what it should be....  But, Zeitgeist by SP sold pretty well and there was not much PR for that album...

Thoughts?

(NOTE - these sales are based on US charts only, not worldwide sales)

Where is this info from?

VR:
http://www.antimusic.com/news/07/july/1917.shtml

GNR:
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Albums&f=Top+Pop+Catalog

^ Isn't that the same website that was quoting RichardNixon from this board for it's news articles? :hihi:
Anyway, the numbers are probably correct. Maybe sales will pickup if they release a solid second single.
SBQM was such a bore. :P

I really hope so... There are some really solid songs on that album!  And the numbers are correct, that website that I listed was one of several that had the same numbers  (if you don't believe me, just check)....

So, has Greatest Hits gone 3 or 4 times Platinum, cause it says "additional" for the number...

So, it should be 1 time platinum, plus 3 more... right?

really, its a pretty weak album.  I didn't buy it and I'm not going to because theres not enough good music on it that I would listen to.   I pretty much only listen to Let It Roll and Can't Get It Out Of My Head and thats it.

I'm not sure what you are getting at, but those same people who are buying GNR Greatest Hits would "most likely" be the same people who would buy the VR album...  All I'm trying to say is that it seems that more people are willing to see VR in concert than shell out $10 for the album... 

Jim Bob:  I understand that you think the album is weak... Personally, I think it is a really good rock record... One of the better ones I've heard this year....  Some of the songs are "single" worthy, but after a few listens, they are still pretty good rock songs... Just my opinion... :)

I was basically asking about the number 3 they have on the platinum indication...

Is it 1 time platinum plus another 3? Or 3 times platinum in total... On that billboard link you gave...

tripple platinum

If the shows are doing well as you say, sales will pick up when the band does some heavy touring. If they tour, tour, tour and the next two singles do a litter better than SBQM, this album may not be the flop people are making out to be.

As for the SP, let's see how they do in week two, a great album, btw.

i only listen to and buy velvet revolver's albums because it's slash. but i have to admit, both albums are pretty weak.
no rock n' roll riffs or melodies, matt's drumming is uninspired, scott singing is just plain. i'm dissapointed.
and libertad opens with such a great intro riff, but after 12 seconds, it's all downhill for the rest of the album.

The triangle means it's platinum, when it ships another million copies they add the number of times it has gone platinum... so the 3 means it's 3.   : ok:

Thank you very much.

Actually, Billboard has it listed at #19... the numbers have been differing slightly from Hits Daily Double...

It's worth noting that they are on tour with a legendary band that has a very devoted fanbase.  AIC is no doubt bringing in a lot of fans.  VR's last US tour did decent numbers

Also which shows sold out?  That antimusic site just says the "filled" three 30,000 person venues without giving any real details or even listing which ones, so it may not be the most reliable source

although this record is a HUGE commercial flop and dissappointment i have to give credit where credit is due....this record really does not sound anything like Contraband....I loved contraband, but im glad in a way that they didnt just re-record contraband because it was successful....this was a different type of album, while im really not a fan of most of it, it took balls to do somethng different.....


it is also worth saying that I dont think this record isn't dead yet....its close though...if they put out "the last fight" to radio stations it might be enough to get some buzz going.....

It's also worth noting that you're often making posts that appear "neutral", but have a negative spin in VR's direction.

Alice in Chains, Legendary? ?Come on... ?Also, I'm not sure how much of their "devoted fanbase" is going to see AIC without Layne Staley.? That seems like the type of thing that divides a devoted fanbase (i.e. The Doors, GN'R, Kiss).

You make valid points, but throwing in stuff like this "legendary" comment is only to bring VR down a notch.

Edit - Also, I think it's unfair to call any album a flop until it's run it's course (especially not a "HUGE commercial flop" after only two weeks of being on sale)... It is certainly shaping up to be an overall disappointment sales/popularity wise, but the album debuted at #5, has a single at #3 on the rock charts and the band is about to go on tour... let the whole thing play out first.

Okay, AIC are legends of the grunge scene and the grunge era at least and amongst that demographic are often held in higher regard than Nirvana, Pearl Jam or any other band from that scene.  Anyway regardless of whether you see them as legends or not, AIC has at least as big if not a bigger fanbase than VR and they will play a major role in how many tickets get sold to these shows.  And if this tour has indeed sold out three 30,000 person venues, you have to attribute a lot of that to the presence of AIC considering VR wasn't even selling half that many tickets to the shows on their arena tour two years ago, and it's not like  their popularity has increased since then

it debuts below contraband because its not nearly as good as contraband.  there is no slither on it.   that sucks for VR.   Even its own fans had to listen to the shit over and over basically forcing themselves to like it. 

but no, these songs are just growers.  ::)

Dude you are just a broken record over and over again saying the same things. "I don't like Libertad, songs shouldn't have to grow on you, Libertad sucks." Honestly how well an album does the first 2 weeks it is out sales wise usually have little to do with how good it is. It's usually how people felt about the last album or how they feel about the lead single. I know you, like myself, downloaded it a week before it came out and you're going to say that people who did that didn't buy it but I think that's nonsense. I know a lot of friends who bought it the day it came out and didn't bother to download it. I like Libertad, even more than Contraband. However I think the poor sales so far have more to do with SBQM being one of the oddest choices ever for a single, and because alot of people were disappointed with Contraband. I think a lot of GnR fans and STP fans picked it up out of curiosity and even tho I love it I can see how they wouldn't be blown away or that into it because it doesn't carry the flag for either of their former bands.  But saying a million times you don't like the album and it's weaker being the reason it's selling poor doesn't make sense when most of the people who bought Contraband and have not bought Libertad only heard 1 song.

I wonder if Scott ru nning his mouth about Axl turned off any GNR fans that would normally buy the record?


Makes u wonder........


Libertad is a great album, I actually have it the best album released this year and I like it better than Nine Inch Nails "Year Zero" and Bon Jovi's "Lost Highway"


Granted it took me about 6 times listening to it to like it, but now I really really love it and it doesn't get old.


Biggest problem was the single choice.


People don't buy albums to listen to from beginning to end anymore. U have to come up with a single that captures the hearts of people and makes Casual fans go buy the album. Which is in my personal opinion the reason we haven't got CD yet. I think the record label wants Axl to have that Radio Friendly catchy poppy album selling single and Axl is sticking to his guns and refusing to do it *GNR have never been a by the numbers radio friendly band* Id say the most radio friendly song they ever had was "Dont Cry" the rest don't really fit the single format but did great just by being great songs.



That and doing a shit load of press, Something VR have not done at all.

In my opinion if VR were going for a Rock and melodic C.D., then they did it.? I bought it and listened to it several times.? I like Let it Roll, Just 16 and Can't get it out of my head.? There are a lot of mellow tunes.? Mary Mary has a good bass line.? Pills demons & etc. has a funky soul sound with a GnR "Better" sound in the backround.? Slash can play anywhere, anything with anybody.? There isn't one tune that really stands out as a Slash (except for the ELO cover & Let it Roll) song like:you got no right or slither, but most the songs are all consistent that they will be heard as singles: short and still Rock.? It's more rock than hard rock.? This C.D. is alright but I'm not ready to loop it just yet.? I guess it's a C.D. the band wanted to do and they liked artistically.? They still have many songs written but not recorded as of yet so maybe the 3rd will be different from both?? Scott sounds good but very filtered like STP stuff.? I guess it's something to get used to.? At least they put a C.D. out there.? I'm comparing the band to itself and prefer contraband.? When GnR puts out a C.D. I'll compare it to GnR 1st and then maybe VR, but again they're 2 different animals now.?

Are you serious?  There's VR interviews everywhere you look.  Hasn't seemed to help much though.

D ....This is great point. I have also wondered about this very thing, but have not seen anyone else address this.  He may have under-estimated some hardcore fan's
loyalty to Axl and could have cost himself a few fans in the process.

This surely wasn't the case for me, as I bought both albums, but cannot stress enough how dissapointed I am in Libertad, but some of Weiland's comments regarding Axl were pretty rough.

Completely absurd. Sorry D.

Any kind of band feud between Weiland/VR and Axl/Guns N' Roses will not diminish any sales. Look at the Van Halen-Roth war that lasted for ten years. No one said "gee, I'm not going to buy a Dave album or a Van Halen album because Dave said... or Sammy said..." People still bought Van Halen albums because they liked the music and stopped buying Dave's albums because they didn't.

So no. Millions of fans are not saying "I'd like to buy Libertad but wont because Weiland insulted Axl."

^
U obviously havent paid much attention to this forum.


Look at people like Jarmo who use to love Velvet Revolver and would post their news on the main page.

Now, Since Scott started running his mouth, he doesn't and I bet a WHOLE lot of GNR fans share the same sentiment.

Yeah, that and the fact that was goes on with Van Halen's fan base has nothing whatsoever to do with what might go on with Velvet Revolver's fan base.

It's actually a good point.  A lot of the people who bought Contraband bought it because they're big GnR fans.  Weiland insulted a lot of Velvet Revolver's fanbase when he said the man who played a huge role in creating the music GnR fans love has no talent and all the other bullshit.  It rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. 

Just like there'd be backlash if Axl was in a band, whether it carried the GnR name or not, and the lead guitarist started saying Slash is a hack who was never any good

Did he actually say he had no talent ??? ???

I know he spent a lot of breath on Axl's appearance but I never heard him actually say something THAT stupid :o

Basically.  He said he's unoriginal and uncreative, which is absurd by any count but especially absurd considering the source

I like both scott and axl and wish they could they could have gotten along seeing how they both have a common goal to create good rock music. With that said, god that letter to axl from scott was hilarious, reading it you can't help but get the sense that this is some strong unadulterated ownage.

You're not suggesting Scott "owned" Axl right?

I would say the only ownage that occurred was Weiland allegedly getting called a fraud by the lead guitarist in his own band and then flipping out and throwing childish insults at someone else to try to deflect the humiliation he obviously felt

That MAY be true, but the reason not as many people seem to be amped about VR this time around could be because GNR is actually relevant and active right now.  Back when Contraband was released it wasn't clear if we'd ever hear from Axl again.  I for one, took what I could get and that was Slash and the rest of the guys from VR.  I bought Libertad but I've gotta say I wasn't nearly as excited about it this time.  I didn't care for Scott's comments about Axl.  That definitely brought him down a few notches in my book, but he's only one member of the band.  And Slash will always outweigh any douchebag that may try to tarnish Axl's reputation.

That MAY be true, but the reason not as many people seem to be amped about VR this time around could be because GNR is actually relevant and active right now.? Back when Contraband was released it wasn't clear if we'd ever hear from Axl again.? I for one, took what I could get and that was Slash and the rest of the guys from VR.? I bought Libertad but I've gotta say I wasn't nearly as excited about it this time.? I didn't care for Scott's comments about Axl.? That definitely brought him down a few notches in my book, but he's only one member of the band.? And Slash will always outweigh any douchebag that may try to tarnish Axl's reputation.


I like the way you think Faldor - Well said on all accounts.

I don't want to put words in Jarmo's mouth, but I don't think he ever 'loved" Velvet Revovler.

Lack of sales have nothing to do with any kind of Axl Rose/Weiland feud. They just don't.

Are some suggesting that Jarmo's feelings towards VR have affected sales for VR?  When Tommy Stinson solo albums and Izzy Solo albums make the front page news and VR doesn't that does mean their is a slight bias against VR.  So forum wise only, I could see VR sales dropping here.  Outside of forum, has no effect.  What sux is Jim Bob, an anti VR guy, downloaded it for free, then bashes the album.  Atleast he could have paid for it, like I will Chinese Democracy. 

why would i pay for shit music?

i downloaded it a week or so before it was released (just like the rest of you).  and if I thought it was a solid album, I would have bought it.  I'm not a cheap mother fucker and I can afford to buy CDs when I feel the urge.   But for 2 songs?  No fucking way.

I dont get what GnR's upcoming album has to do wtih the topic.

I don't either.  Why did you bring up the upcoming album?  Now way would you ever think its a solid album.  I know that going in, and I like what you have to say, but if you think I think you can be objective you are nuts.  I didn't say anything bad, just that the leak hurt sales only for forum members on this site.  And in 04, news and updates made the main page news.  But a lot has changed since then. 

are you that fucking senile that you don't remember what you posted earlier today?  :-\  YOU brought it up.


and yes I gave Libertad plenty of objective listens.   I'm glad I was able to download it otherwise I would have wasted my money, because the cd would have gotten virtually no play after a few listens.  I would have ripped two songs to my computer and left it at that.  but if they release Let It Roll as a single, I'll buy that.  :yes:

Ha!!  Jim Bob!  I was messing with you!  Just giving you a hard time.  Let It Roll is a good tune!

The number of fans (few in number) who may have been turned off by Scott critizing Axl is outweighed by the greater number of fans who appreciate  new music and a new album and a kick ass album.

Seriously... how many people even know that Scott wrote that stuff about Axl?  Only the message board geeks.

It's not like Axl reflects well from that incident either.  Regardless of whether or not what he said was the truth, it's not like he's a class act for putting that stuff in the press release in the first place.  I doubt that will have a serious impact on Chinese Democracy sales, though.

I'm not gonna use my time to promote something I don't believe in.



A Tommy or Izzy solo record definitely interests me more than whatever the fuck this Scott character releases.

I know I'm not the only GN'R fan who feels that way.




/jarmo

And if Axl supported VR, you would be up their butt too.  Anyway the wind blows......

That's fine Jarmo, it clearly shows your hatred for VR, this board used to be great (was always one of my favorites and I still do come here multiple times a day) but now it has turned into a pretty shitty place to come. Always the same arguments. And for myself a fan of both GN'R and VR it isn't really something I'm into. You don't see VR boards talking shit about GN'R all the time. I think it's insulting and childish to see what has happened here. I know it's your website, but VR news belongs there as much as Tommy's shitty albums and Izzy's material (which I love). I guess we can't expect people to grow up and stop this stupid nonsence if that very type of behaviour is exibitted and praised by the webmaster.

Velvet Revolver is on the board so it may be discussed and analysed by GN'R fans. Don't be insulted by it. You are merely experiencing other people's perspectives on the matter. And yeh, sorry, we can't paint a 'nicer' picture for you.

There is a differnce between being on the board and having people bitch and complain on every single VR post just because they feel GN"R are Gods and have to bring down VR cause they feel threatened  because VR actually release new music every couple of years. There couldn't possibly be people that like BOTH bands and want to hear news and talk about both. Some of the arguments I see on this board are so stupid and idiotic. I'm not sure some of you have a high enough IQ to be able and tie your shoe (velcro shoes don't count).

If you know anything about Freud I do believe that you are "projecting your own shadow". The words "threatened", "bitch" and "complain" are coming from your perspective and comprehension of the arguments presented thus far. I certainly have not read those words into the arguments presented by Gn'R fans.

PS. Trying to insult people's IQs shows a sense of desperation. Low blow only....

 :'(

I agree that Scott has hurt VR's sales....there has to be SOME explanation how a band in 2004 that NOBODY even heard of sells over 250,000 the first week and that same band after years of touring and music videos and magazine covers sells less than 93,000 the opening week......SBQM and SLither are pretty much identical songs too...so i dont want to hear that it was because it was a weaker single.....I really wanted VR's record to do well BUT there was also a part of me that was a little happy it tanked because Scott Weiland is always opening his mouth about Axl and GNR...especially when Scott recently said that Chinese Democracy wont sell a million copies......kind of ironic how his record tanks and as of right now has no shot in hell of selling a million copies...

I read your nonsensical argument you had yesterday with other people here about whether VR could play other GNR songs or not. The other members made sound arguments, and you always responded the same garbage to their response. I'm not trying to insult some of the posters IQ, they do that on their own. It is a low blow but I'm tired of reading the same shit here day after day. I know I'm free to go somewhere else, but this board used to be my favorite GN'R, just unfortunate that it can't survive VR. It's a shame cause GN'R has, their on tour and will hopefully release their CD soon. Why can't you guys go on living life like the rest of GN'R has and not have to come and post nonsence here everyday.

It's Ok dude, not everyone has a grasp on ethics.

I don't think you understand ethics...because you own the name of a band you don't own everything. As others have mentioned the songs VR sings were not written by Axl, they were written by the members of VR and Izzy, so they have more ownership of that material than Axl. You don't see any VR fans bitching about Axl's GN'R covering those songs. VR has never used that material in any commericial release to drum up publicity. In fact in the recent concert that was on MSN all GN'R and STP material was removed and only VR material was broadcast. GN'R and STP are an important part of their past and they should play a few songs, they do so because they respect and take pride in their past. You can play any song you want live in concert. In fact, Axl's GN'R could play a VR song if they wanted. Axl could pull off most of the songs Scott sings, I think Axl is a better vocalist. However I have some doubts about the band behind Axl being able to do the material justice.

And for some of you who are misguided individuals, sure Scott has said things about GN'R that he shouldn't have and as a GN'R fan I don't agree with them, but Axl (and his assitant) has said stuff about Slash and Scott that they should not have and as a VR fan I don't agree with them. Both parties have made mistakes, but they haven't made it a long running feud and have moved on and for the most part been rather civil. The same CANNOT be said for some individuals on this board.

Fuck you.


Too bad you're as clueless as the rest.


Now go and listen to that masterpiece record Libertad and kiss your Weiland poster.



/jarmo

Axl has way higher ideals than to do that.

What Jarmo said........

... But you will use it to do the opposite!? ?:D


"The rest", "the rest", I always wonder who falls into that category?... For about a week there I thought you had better things to do with your time than talk trash about something that doesn't interest you (or respond to people who don't "get it"), but welcome back!? :hihi:

Yep...great arguments guys...you two are a perfect representation for everything that has gone wrong with this board in the last couple of years. I don't idolize Weiland or Axl, I think in the end I will probably enjoy Libertad more than I will Chinese Democracy, which is my choice. I do really enjoy Libertad. Is it as good as Appetite, no. But there are some really good songs on there. What attracted me to GN'R was their hard rock blues style music, much like what attracts me to Aerosmith. This to a large extent is gone in Axl's GN'R, sadly enough even when they play the old stuff and it has been replaced by industrial and dance-like beats and sounds. It is true that GN'R is changing and evolving, and it is understandable that some of you will like that better and that is your choice and right and I won't make fun of you. However; VR's roots are closer to that hard rock blues style music than Axl's GN'R, so if some fans prefer VR over Axl's GNR because of that, you should respect that and stop being assholes and picking on them all the time.

What you have to realize is that GN'R reached a fork in the roads in the mid 90's where they split into two bands, with neither band really being GN'R anymore. One fork eventually became VR and the other Axl's GN'R. Some fans may like VR or Axl's GNR better than the original GN'R which is fine, others like myself will always like the old band better but have excepted the split and be fans of both bands. Just because your a fan of one band doesn't mean you HAVE to hate the other and if you don't like them that is your right but you don't have to spread your hate with lies, mis-truths and nonsensical arguments, just except it and listen to the music and be glad that GN'R still exists in some form or another be that as VR, Axl's GN'R, or both.

Weiland's insults were in pretty big magazines, so yeah I know for a fact a lot of GNR fans saw those and were turned off by it.


I have a friend who refuses to listen to VR after what Scott said about Axl.


So I don't think its ludicrous at all to think some of that may have hurt VR


Fuck, Look at Ja Rule the rapper, He got into it with Eminem and 50 cent.................. Now the dudes career is OVER. Seriously, its finished.




Honestly Here is what I believe.

People were curious and bought Contraband, Didnt like it, so they didnt come back for the 2nd album.


Also, Great ballads drive album sales, Call it *RichardNixon's Soccer Mom Effect* ?All bands do the nice ballad to get older,Soccer Moms to buy and listen to their albums.

Everybody who thinks they fucking know me or what I'm all about is the rest,

I never talked to this PhillyRiot person, yet he acts like he knows me.

Just like many of you VR fans.



Worry about your own lives instead of trying to figure out why I think Scott Weiland is a clueless overrated poser and a joke.  : ok:



/jarmo

^
Only speculating, but VR use to be covered here, I think there were pics of u at a VR concert.


Just seems when Scott ran his mouth, u started really hating the band which is cool and totally understandable but at one time u seemed to have supported VR.

AdZ is on them too? :-X



 :hihi:

Jarmo, goes both ways. ?You think you know the VR fans cause you think they think they know you? ?

Did you listen to libertad? ?I think its better than CB. ? You can comment, Axl won't fire you. ?Just be honest, like WARose, Jim Bob, and Younggunner have all done. ?They all listened to the album, and were as fair as they could be.

Sure Weiland had some insults in some pretty big magazines, but so did GN'R back in the day when they were in almost every magazine you could pick up. From what we've been told a lot of those comments were either not said or were mis-quoted to change the actual meaning of what was said. for all we know this may be the case here too. I believe very little of what is said in magazines for this reason. That being said, Scott has said some not so nice things on camera about GN'R and Axl has said stuff about Slash and Scott that was uncalled for as well.

Yes, I saw them live.

I thought they were interesting live. I was curious to see what Duff and Slash were doing and never went to see Scott. I tried to see what people like Booker see in that guy but failed.


I saw GN'R in 2006. I knew that was what I had been missing. No need for me to look back or go back to trying to enjoy a guy who I thought was overrated in the first place.


The fact that the VR members keep talking about Axl just makes it seem like they're desperate to sell more records. I don't need to play along and promote them.




I didn't get the cd yet. I was busy having fun and seeing GN'R in Japan.



/jarmo

this is the point!  scott talking shit about axl doesn`t matter.... it`s the music that matters. it`s a shame though, as i think libertad is miles ahead of contraband.

it was the same with their gig at rock am ring. they sucked in 2005 and people just didn`t give them a second chance in 2007... so they sucked even more, because the audience didn`t support them in the slightest way (and the sound sucked big time...)

people were curious in 2004, because of slash and duff. that`s it.


and if i remember correctly the VR news disappeared from the frontpage after this letter was posted on VR`s official website:

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a12/WARose05/weilandrant4gq.jpg)

what a fuckin idiot...

Man, Junkies just don't know when to shut up!

Thanks for posting that WARose  : ok:

i always laugh reading that letter.. it's so wrong all of it.. that what makes it funny.. just like it's sometimes funny to joke about nazism and racism and stuff like that :hihi:

WARose, good call. ?I respect that you are objective, unlike other fans, and listened to Libertad and was honest about it. ?Like I tried to tell booker about Dixie Chicks, saying what is on your mind is not the best thing. ?Period. ?

I like both bands. ?

Jarmo, when GNR reunites, what will you do then? ?Because you know and I know it WILL happen. ?Check out the album, Duff and Slash do great.

GN'R reuniting! NOT gonna happen!

Too much water under the bridge.......

Besides, have you heard! Guns N' Roses are putting an album out soon.........

I have to agree with Jarmo.  I think VR would be 95% better if they had a more "rock" sounding frontman.  Scott is ok for STP but not for VR.  VR is amazing but I think Scott is holding them back from being Great.  Don't get me wrong, Scott is great at what he does but does not fit in with Slash's style.

I would like to see what this band plus Billy Idol could have done.  But I like Weiland enough.

Sales wise, probably not much, seeing as Billy Idol isn't really relevant these days. (His latest album seemed good but it went nowhere) Musical wise, it might've rocked.

How can GNR reunite when they have been playing shows for the past year and a half? Oh you mean those guys, who quit the band 10 years ago and tried to make sure the fans never could see GNR again, come back to the band? Too bad, it ain't gonna happen. Axl don't need those guys who tried to fuck the fans over....

wow. Exactly... EXACTLY my thoughts.

Instead, there's now GnR AND VR, and we get to enjoy them both live and (in part) through new songs. (Leaks for the win :hihi: )

Let's steer away from the reunion talk all, it's a dead fucking horse.

Back on topic please.

Thank you.

People will always dislike Velvet Revolver. They will say that Scott sucks and that GNR needs to reunite. They will spend allday bashing VR. I say fuck that.

If you like Velvet Revolver, cool. Keep listening. Keep talking about the band
If you don't like Velvet Revolver, cool as well. Don't listen, don't talk about the band.
To each his own. no two people like exactly the same music. Just because 3 ex GNR members are in VR doesn't mean every GNR fan will like them.

So, now if the public thinks Libertad is a failure, i cant wait for its followup to blow the public out of the water

Jizzo I agree, but the last line threw me off?  Are you excited for the follow up?

Scott just kind of brought bad Karma onto VR when at the R and Roll hall of fame he said "What will happen first, Nick Lachey in Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or Chinese Democracy selling 1 million copies.


I don't think LIbertad will sell 1 million..........


The album is really great though.

Yes, i think the next album will be great. I like Libertad. no its not the best album ever but i can still listen to most of it

If there is a 3rd, and grows from this, I agree, it will be bad ass!

Yes, I don't like them.




Yeah, he's overrated.


BUT GN'R doesn't need to reunite. Fuck that.

Axl didn't spend all this time just to throw it away on some fucking reunion.




/jarmo

Get out the door is bomb, can't wait to hear it on radio. I've got my hopes in The last fight and GOTD singles, il should rise Libertad sells? :yes:

And Slash & Duff can say ANYTHING they want about GN'R, it's not for selling much records but it's their past (100% of GN'R recordings are played by them) like Axl talked about Slash in his last interview (rolling stone 01/06)? : ok:

The difference is that that was in 2006 and Axl wasn't selling a product.

Every former member of GN'R knows that by mentioning Axl by name, they'll get more attention.

I guess the old "no comment" isn't an option when you need the press to sell records? You don't want to piss off some journalists by telling them you're not interested in talking about Axl.....  ???


/jarmo

Well, actually some months ago, Slash refused to answer anything related to GN?R. Funny enough, immediately people started badmouthing him, saying that he was just full of himself by refusing to say anything about GN?R etc etc... people are never satisfied as you say many times.
I think the guys must get too fucking tired of answering the same questions "Have you spoke to Axl?" "What do you think about Chinese Democracy?". That must just annoy them... however, they are humble and polite enough to answer them, over and over again, whenever someone asks, and I really appreciate that. Slash is even, these days, much more open minded and polite whenever he talks about Axl so I don?t see why we should complain about that. Afterall, we all want to know some more about our favourite band...

OMG...how stupid are you? How many times have they said no comment and have asked that there be no GNR questions? This is something that will continue for the rest of VR's careers as well as Axl's. You can only avoid those questions so many times. VR has never marketed itself using the GNR or STP name. They could have easily covered one of their songs and put it on an album or released live recording where they played their songs. They play a couple of songs in concert, but it is a very minimal part of the set list. There is more questions now because GNR is on tour again and is actually doing something. If you look at most of the comments that VR has made about Axl's GNR they have been nothing but flatering.

I see nothing stupid about Ines' comment.

Ease up on the "stupid" rhetoric, insults are not allowed here.

Thanks.

It was for Jarmo comment, and perhaps stupid was harsh, perhaps I should have said his comments were ill-adviced, uninformed, laughable, ridiculous, or ludicrous. I appoligize for that. I just wish people would think sometimes before posting.

You haven't been here long have you? You do know that this is Jarmo's site don't you? Will that make you think before you post so disrepectfully next time! If there is next time...... :no:

Selective memory.

It's all a game..... They're "the good guys" and you buy into that. Good for you.



/jarmo

I tend to agree with the above, they're always going to ask and it's in the best interest of the product to answer.

It'll be interesting to see how Axl handles the former member questions when he does press for
CD.

Falcon is 100 percent correct


Axl will have to talk about the old bandmembers.

Its not like Duff and Slash offer up, they are asked a question and they do the Politically Correct "SAFE" answer.
I See nothing wrong with them answering questions when asked.


IF they didnt answer, what the hell would people say?


"They hate Axl, They are jealous, see they try to do an interview and all they are asked about is Axl" BLAH BLAH BLAH

They are kind of in a no win situation.

They answer questions with nice sentiments about Axl and they are trying to boost album sells.

They answer questions negatively and they are jealous, miserable assholes.

Or he could say to the journalists that he will not be answering any questions about former band members......

No he doesn't.  : ok:


Even if he says something even once after being subjected to years and years of attacks from the former members, some of you will be saying "Axl is always saying bad things about them  :crying: "





/jarmo

It'll be interesting to watch the whole thing unfold IE, Will Axl stipulate a "no former member" line of questioning mantra or no interview?  Will he go the "no comment" route when questions are asked?
Will the former members be fair game and open for discussion?

The jounalists will be fun to watch as well.  Which one's will play the game if certain subjects aren't allowed, who'll push the envelope and whatnot etc.

It won't be dull, that's for sure.

 

Subject to years of attack? Where does this come from? Most of the people that attacked Axl are not his former bandmates and VR. The list includes former managers and magazines and Izzy Stradlin. But you don't pick on Izzy cause he isn't on a competing major record label I guess. Maybe you can provide some insight as to why you never mention him. I think Izzy has every right to say what he did about Axl, Axl has repeatedly bashed former members during concerts. How many concerts in 1993 did he dedicate Double Talkin' Jive to Izzy Stradlin. He had long rants regarding Izzy. He also kicked a FAN out of a concert for wearing a Slash shirt. Once again, I'm not taking VR's side. Scott has said a couple of comments which were not appropriate, but I have never heard Slash, Duff, or Matt say anything to bash Axl, so some people are streching a little here.

Slash, Duff & Matt lie to look like the good guys, pay attention.

Jarmo, why the fuck do you think you know Axl Rose so well? ?Just like you get mad at certain members and you say, "you don't know me fuck off". ?Fuck you, you have know clue how Axl will react. ?He is one of the most unpredictable Rock N Roll front men ever. ?Are you his manager? ?No. ?His Therapist? ?No. ?You run a fucking fan site. ?For you to speculate on a such a complex person like Axl is ignorant. ?You have no fucking clue what he will do. ?And I don't give a fuck what he may have said in Japan. ?Until he does it, until its official, we all know nothing. ?

The above passage is an example of how Jarmo talks to people when he disagrees. ?I actually use his own beleifs to dispell his own feelings. ?I feel that it is articulated well and very accurate. ?

Thoughts? ?

Also, Falcon said back on topic, and who brought it back up to a higher level? ?That is right! ?Jarmo!!!!

Umm....why do I feel like I'm about to watch Tony Soprano go have " a talk" with the man who put his finger in Meadow's mouth at that restaurant???

Listen, since you have a hard time understanding and you have to turn to insults to get your non-existent "point" across, I'll just say this: What I said is based on previous actions by Axl.

He has barely mentioned the ex-members in interviews. He mentioned them in 2002 on tour and look what happened.

The other guys, including Steven, sure like to mention him a lot....





/jarmo

At the Korn party in January 2006, Axl answered a question about Slash, so, who knows?

Ali

It's funny how nobody ventured to comment on my post about all the comments Axl has made regarding Izzy in the past. Axl has commented more on the ex-GNR members than they have on him (with the exception of Steven).

I would hate to think that we're going to hold all these guys responsible for comments they made 10 or 15 years ago.  Maybe as you get older and wiser you learn to answer questions about former members without it dissolving into a bashfest.

How many other interviews has Axl really done?  Slash & Duff are doing more interviews because they are releasing CDs... and of course many of the people doing interviews want to push some GN'R questions.

Comments like this...


... which seem to suggest that Slash & Duff are worthless media whores who will do anything to appear as the "heroes" of the GN'R breakup to sell albums, are looking WAY too much into the situation.? The furthest it seems to go is:

Interviewer: What do you think about Axl and his CD?
Slash: I want it to come out, I'm sure it will be great.

Big Deal!? I wonder if STP fans get their panties in such a knot if Weiland gets asked a question about the DeLeo brothers.

Well, I'm glad you have the knowledge in the matter.  : ok:




/jarmo

Knowledge is my middle name.   :-*

Wow...Jarmo you are good at the art of twisting peoples words and facts.

I wasn't insulting you.  I was mocking a reply tactic you have used in the past.  However, you did answer nicely and with class.  We both made our points.  I think the whole thing is way blown out. 

I don't want them to reunite, Reunions suck. I want both VR and GNR to both be successful.

Hell, no.

There are the good, and the bad guys.

 ???

How many interviews has he done in the last 13 years?

There was the "Oh My God" press release, where he demonstrated the following pettiness:

"Musically the song was primarily written by Paul Huge over two years ago, with Dizzy Reed writing the musical hook of the chorus. Former member Duff McKagan as well as former employee Matt Sorum failed to see its potential and showed no interest in exploring, let alone recording the piece. When the demos were played for the new band, Josh, Tommy and Robin were as they say 'all over it."

---

The Kurt Loder interview:

Loder: What prevented you from doing, like, a traditional rock record?

Rose: Slash.

Loder: [Laughs] But you could have found another guitar player or something, right?

Rose: Well, not really.... Not to make a true Guns record. It's kind of like, I don't know, if you know somebody has a relationship, and there's difficulties in that, and Mr. or Mrs. Right doesn't kind of just stumble into their path, or they don't stumble across that person, they can't really get on with things. Somebody didn't come into my radar that would have really replaced Slash in a proper way.

Loder: Yeah.

Rose: And it really wasn't something we were trying to do. We were trying to make things work with Slash for a very, very long time... about three and a half years.

Loder: Wow. Jeez. That's a shame, because it seemed like such a tight unit. This live album seems like a farewell to that era.

Rose: It is exactly that. It's a farewell to that.... It was something we wanted to give to the public in a way of saying farewell. It was a very difficult thing to do, as listening to it and the people involved... [it] wasn't the most emotionally pleasant thing to do.

...

Loder: At any time, were you thinking of keeping Duff [McKagan] or Matt Sorum or anybody on board too? Or was that all over from the beginning?

Rose: That was their choice to leave. Everybody that's gone did it by choice. Matt was fired, but Matt came in attempting to get fired and told many people so that night. So it's kind of like everybody left by choice. They really didn't think I was going to figure out a way to make a record, [and they] didn't want to help really make a record. Everybody kind of wanted what they wanted individually rather than what's in the best interest of the whole.

...

Rose: You could find ways to blend all kind of things. It really just takes the right song. I don't personally believe that was the interest of Guns or Slash, I don't believe the right song was the interest. I mean, what people don't know is, the [Slash's] Snakepit album, that is the Guns N' Roses album. I just wouldn't do it.

Loder: Really?

Rose: Oh, yeah! Duff walked out on it, and I walked out on it, because I wasn't allowed to be any part of it. It's like, "No, you do this, that's how it is." And I didn't believe in it. I thought that there were riffs and parts and some ideas, I thought, that needed to be developed. I had no problem working on it, or working with it, but you know, as is, I think I'm with the public on that one.

---

The 2000 Rolling Stone interview:

Asked whether he ever considered going under his own name instead of keeping the Guns N` Roses tag, Rose says; ''It is something I lived by before these guys were in it. And there were other people in Guns N` Roses before them, you know. I contemplated letting go of that, but it doesn't feel right in any way. I am not the person who chose to try to kill it and walk away.''

...

At least one of his former band mates didn't really want any part of that process - ''Slash told me, 'I don't want to work that hard,' '' Rose recalls.

Slash's name pops up repeatedly, invoked in a way that suggests a shellshock husband speaking of an ex-wife after a particularly horrific divorce. ''It was a divorce,'' Rose says with a sad stare. In retrospect, Rose sees the band's massive success as part of it's undoing. ''The proverty is what kept us together,'' he says. ''That was how we became Guns N Roses. Once that changed...'' He turns momentarily quiet. ''Guns N Roses was like the old Stones or whatever,'' he says. ''Not necessarily the friendliest bunch of guys.''

...

Rose seems estranged from many old associates - a scenario not helped much by the numerous lawsuits that have occupied his attention for a significant part of the last decade. He casually mentions that a while back his security camera caught an unannounced visit by Izzy Stradlin to his front gate, but quickly adds that he had no interest in getting together with the old school buddy and former collaborator, whom he originally followed to Los Angeles from Indiana. ''It wouldn't be healthy for me,'' Rose explains. ''Izzy went back to Indiana,'' Rose continues, shaking his head in disbelief. ''That pretty much explains the absurdity of the whole goddamn thing. The fucking idea of going back to Indiana - I am not even bagging on Indiana - I just know how much Izzy hated it. I went to high school with this guy. It's pitiful. It was the fame of the heroin addiction and the fear of death. When Izzy woke up in New York with EKG pads all over his body and doesn't know how they got there, and knows, 'I think I OD'd last night and made it back home' - that was pretty much it. Before that he was pulling away, but that was the end. Then when he got straight...I think it really has to do with what it takes to face that big audience. I wouldn't call it stage fright. It's something else, and to psyche yourself up for that, the old Guns doesn't seem to be able to do it without medication.''

Even when it came to picking up tracks for the recent Live Era '87 - 93' retrospective, Rose and Slash - whom Rose describes as ''negatively seductive'' - communicated their song selections only through intermediaries.

''I never said that I was bitter,'' Rose explains, characteristically concerned with making fine distinctions. ''Hurt, yeah. Disappointed. I mean, with Slash, I remember crying about all kinds of things in my life, but I had never felt hot, burning tears...hot, burning tears of anger. Basically, to me, it was because I am watching this guy and I don't understand it. Playing with everyone from Space Ghost to Michael Jackson. I don't get it. I wanted the world to love and respect him. I just watched him throw it away.''

Rose confesses to being stung by skeptics who doubt what he can do. ''There is the desire definitely to do it, to get over some of the hump of the people that are trying to keep you in the past,'' he says. ''There are people that I thought I was friends with who are all of a sudden in the magazines, going, 'They'll never get anywhere without Slash.' Thanks a lot. Like I made this happen, you know. I basically figured out a way to save my own ass. There was only one way out, and I found it. Otherwise, you know, I believe my career was just going down the toilet. I figured out how to save my ass and then tried to bring everybody with me.''

How about all the interviews where Slash duff matt etc all completely trash Axl and blame everything on him? Compared to these guys, Axl has hardly said anything about his former band member.  : ok:

All of those interviews are from before the year 2000. ?The only mention I've seen of Slash in the last few years in an interview was in the January 2006 RS article from the Korn party.

In all fairness, that pettiness you refer to is no more so than the what old GN'R guys have said about him in the press.

Ali

The report of his poolside chat:

- Everybody hated each other in the band, with the exception of me. Slash was fighting for power with (the guitarist) Izzy (Stradlin) because he wanted to take control of the band and destroy it.

Axl told that the drummer, Steven Adler, used so much drugs that he fell several times from the drums while they were recording. The drum track for the song "Civil War", one of the group's hits, was remixed more than 90 times.

According to what he says Duff McKagan had panic attacks during the performances.

With Slash it wasn't much different, addicted to drugs and alcohol, the guitarist disagreed with the direction of the band:

- Nothing about happiness and love made sense to him. That was the reason why he hated "Sweet Child O' Mine". He only wanted to write songs about drugs and sadness.

The start of the fight between them, was the hospilization of the guitarist in 1992, because of an overdose.

- Do you remember that movie "Pulp Fiction"? He needed to get an injection in the heart like in the movie - he said.

---

One of the brief South American interviews:

Axl: A lot of people on the Internet thought that Slash was in the band, still before they knew Buckethead. People thought that Buckethead was Slash for the hair.

---

The 2002 tour press release:

On the subject of Slash Axl commented:

?Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There?d still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn?t out of opinion that Slash would go ?hey it doesn?t work?, but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ?Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can?t do that.? People like to call me paranoid. It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we?d have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that. It?s not something Slash could live with. Slash chose not to be here over control issues. Now people can say ?Well Axl, you?re after control of the band too.? You?re damn skippy. That?s right. I am the one held responsible since day one. When it comes to Guns n? Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B and knowing what the job is that we have to do. Within those parameters, I give everyone as much freedom to do what they want something Slash has verified in several interviews. Had Slash stepped up and written what we captured glimpses of, it would have created an environment that was beyond Slash?s ability to control. He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don?t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It?s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that?s the reason why that material got scrapped. If one were to say well then why not do it now there are several reasons.1) My band, too much time, too much effort and hardship. Confidence in our material. Excitement in watching this grow and being a part of the whole experience. 2) Money. You get what you play for and nothing?s free. Can you cover the cost of this venture and its financial potential that I am just supposed to walk away from and for what? To where? I do not believe in any true effort or potential regarding most of my past relationship from the other party or parties, creatively or emotionally. Without that the money from a reunion doesn't mean much and though I'm sure the alumni is up for it for me it would be as or more lacking than it was during our attempts to work together previously. As a friend and former friend of Slash said to me in regards to working with Slash, "you can only do so many pull ups." This is my shot and you can root for me to fail all you want, but there is simply way too much put into this to cater to someone else's selfish needs and destroy peoples dreams I truly care about including my own. Not too mention that though I've fought what feels like the heart of the nature of this entire industry, my own people would probably eat me alive if I opted for a lesser course. 3) Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does. Duff's support for the man though understandable in one sense in regard to his circumstances, is inexcusable, and furthers my distance from the two of them. For me Matt doesn't figure into the equation and for as much as I was a friend to him he was incapable of reciprocating and life is much better without such an obvious albatross. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums. I know how I was treated and more importantly I know how they treated others during both of these things, it's not a way anyone should be forced or even asked to work. And for the record I'm referring to Slash and Matt in regards to their actions and behavior, Duff played more of a supporting role (for reasons I've never understood). For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea.?

---

The lawsuit press releases, which I wont even quote from. 

The brief Rolling Stone interview.

And as you mentioned, the concert rants.

There was also the Eddie Trunk interview, in which I dont believe he mentioned the former members, a couple of very brief radio interviews, and a few press releases in which he didnt mention the former members.  If theres any interviews Im forgetting, please let me know.

So stating that "He has barely mentioned the ex-members in interviews" is simply inaccurate.

axl spoke about slash in a interview at some airport in 2002 too.. i think it was before som osaka gig or something like that ?: ok: (jim bob has a very small part of it in his siggy)

I forgot about the 2002 tour press release, but the frequency of his mentioning the old members publicly has diminished greatly from '99 to early '01 to virtually nothing during the past year.  That much is undeniable.  The lawsuit press release is press release and not an interview.

Name one rant from the 2006-2007 tours where he has mentioned the old members.  I can't.

Ali

Does the fact that its a press release and not an interview really make a difference?  If Slash and Duff mentioned Axl in press releases, would you guys suddenly be okay with it?

To state that Axl has barely mentioned the former members is false.  He hasnt given many interviews, but has mentioned the former members in most of them.

You said that to say Axl hasn't mentioned Slash in interviews is inaccurate.? I said that he has, but the frequency in which he has mentioned the old members has greatly decreased in the last several years to almost nothing the past two years.? The difference with the legal press release as opposed to the 2002 tour press release you mentioned is that one directly quoted Axl the other didn't.?

His biggest, longest interview this decade, the Eddie Trunk show, was one were he never mentioned Slash or Duff once.

Ali

I won't. now that I know this, Im gonna follow JB's example and download CD like he did with Libertad. if it comes out that is.

What Ali said.


Hey Booker, maybe you can e-mail the VR camp and tell them to look up the phrases "next question please" and "no comment".

 : ok:





/jarmo

Was he asked?

Well then I guess you won't be posting here for long.




/jarmo

Other than that one negative post on the VR webpage (which wasn't up for long) and Scott's comment at the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame induction of VH has there been any negative comments toward Axl's GNR?

How many interviews has he done in the last two years.


They still speak on behalf of Axl Rose.  He certainly approved the content.  Theres really no difference. 


Thats right, and I noted that.  He also wasnt asked about them - how often do you think Slash and Duff mention Axl without being asked about him?

Good idea.  Lets see if we like it first. If we like it, we buy it.  If only 2-3 songs good, fuck wasting our money. Right JB?

No, but that is exactly my point, ?He didn't bring them up on his own to stir up attention. ?

Ali

Let's speculate:

How would he have responded if asked?

Was a stipulation of his appearing that he not be asked?

Does Eddie Trunk have the sack to go against a request not to ask and endanger the interview?

Yet thats exactly what he did with those legal press releases, as well as the 2002 press release to some extent.

And you probably havent read my last post yet, but Ill ask again: how often do Slash and Duff bring up Axl for no reason?

Pretty much never.

I am sure Dave and Scott like it that way too. 

Can't win with you, huh? ?Look at the frequency in which he mentions Slash or Duff in the interviews from '99 to '02, now look at the interviews from the last two years (with John Norris at 2006 VMAs, Story where he mentioned the album saying it could not be Shaq at the free-thow line, KROQ interview announcing the Inland Invasion show, January 2006 RS story at Korn party, Eddie Trunk show), and you see a lower frequency of him mentioning the old band. ?He isn't bringing them up on his now. ?You mentioned the rants and I say name one rant in 2006 or 2007 where he mentioned Slash or Duff and you say nothing. ?He isn't bashing them onstage or in interviews to stir up controversy and attention for himself. ?

There is a difference between the legal press release and the interviews.!! ?You are the one who brought up the legal press release as an instance where Axl brings up Slash and Duff and there is NO DIRECT QUOTE from Axl in there! ?He was simply restating what Slash told Beta that night Slash visited his house. ?Those were Slash's words being quoted, not Axl's!!!

Ali

Is there any evidence whatsoever that you have to support the notion that there was a "Don't Ask Axl About the Old Band" clause to him appearing on the Eddie Trunk show?  No, so why would you think that there is?

Ali

Back on topic, Libertad dropped 35% with a little over 21,000 copies sold.  Bringing the three week total to about 150K.  RCA is making a bad move by waiting for almost another full month to release the second single.  At this rate Libertad still won't have matched Contraband's first week sales by the time The Last Fight gets released to radio

The same Scott that wrote a pathetically petulant letter on his own website bashing Axl for things his own guitarist allegedly (edit:  I'll say allegedly to be PC, even though I believe Slash did say those things) said about him.

I never said Slash and Duff bring up Axl for no reason. ?Maybe you are confusing me with someone else, man. ?I'm just saying that it seemed to me there was some notion that Axl brings up Slash and Duff for no reason to bash them and/or draw attention to himself. ?Yes, he did bring them up and criticized them from '99 to '02, especially on stage, but he hasn't at all the last couple of years, not onstage once.

Keep bringing up that legal issue press release all you want, but remember this: ?If it wasn't for Slash and Duff suing him for an ASCAP clerical error that press release would've never been issued. ?It was in response to a frivolous lawsuit that should've been dropped once they realized it was without merit.

Ali

Please. Why do you think they get asked?

Because journalists know they'll get something to write a story around.

If they knew they wouldn't get anything, they wouldn't ask.



Wasn't Slash supposed to stop talking about Axl because it would always come back and bite him in the ass? What happened to that?

Did he realize he has to play the game and keep answering the questions so VR can get the publicity to sell more records or did he just "forget" he had said that? I bet you have a quote that answers that questions somewhere.



/jarmo

Is this the miracle song that's gonna sell the album?

I mean, it almost sounds like the album is filled with filler tracks if you put that much faith into one track.  ???




/jarmo

Is this the miracle song that's gonna sell the album?



Yes.




I mean, it almost sounds like the album is filled with filler tracks if you put that much faith into one track.  ???


Explain.

I don't know about miracle, but I think that it is a strong song and that along with "Get Out The Door" should help push units. ?That is, if the record company isn't so stupid as to not release "Get Out The Door".

I don't understand why it will take another month to get "The Last Fight" out to radio. ?Does it really take that long to send some CDs out?

Ali

well by my count, there are at least 6 fantastic songs that are supposed to be on the album so that alone should make it worth the purchase. 

but if you dont support GnR you have no fucking business on this site.

Well, it does have a lot of filler on it in my opinion.   But that aside, I don't think the album has a miracle single, but I think the second single The Last Fight will do better than the dud that SBQM was.  I don't think this album has anything close to a Slither or FTP level hit.  But by waiting this long to release the second single they are damaging the album's chances at recovering and selling a decent amount

I'll leave that to Booker & The Magic Quotes.  : ok:



/jarmo

JB, you can support the band by traveling all over america to see them, like me.  I have all their cd's.  But if you look at VR's ticket sales, it exceeds their album sales.  Hmmmm. 

Jarmo, you have not heard album.  Hear, then judge.  Its a good album.

Well, in all fairness, he isn't saying that the album is bad or filled with filler.  He's saying that IF you are putting all your eggs in the basket of that one song to save the album sales-wise, what does that say about the quality of the rest of the songs?  It's more of a hypothetical question than a strict judgement.

Ali

True, but he says this having never heard the album. 

Anyway, you are right.

The Last Fight
GOTD
Messages
Mary, Mary

I would go with those.

Having heard the album myself I can say without a doubt it sucks. I don't know how anyone with ears can call that a good album...

Not to get technical but Axl did actually talk about the old band on Eddie Trunk.

He was talkin about Its So Easy and how it was a different song, totally I cant remember the word, Rockabilly maybe? and then he said Slash dirtied it up and Axl gave his best Iggy Pop over top of it and izzy was like "what happened to my song.....





I think answering questions is much better than saying "NO Comment"

If u say No Comment it leads to speculation that could further lead to bigger feuds cause people will interpret it like u hate them or something.


If u are asked, Answer nicely and politely, move on to the next.  I see nothing wrong with answering honestly about someone u know well.

Slash has been nothing but complimentary to Axl, even on the Behind The Music he talks of what a brilliant guy Axl is.

Slash has not been nothing but complimentary towards Axl.  He has dissed him time and again, although not recently.  He has never dissed his talent, though and Axl has never dissed Slash's talent either.

You mention answering honestly about someone you know well, and the fundamental flaw in that in this particular instance is that you have two men that haven't spoken in a decade.  Maybe they knew each other once, but not anymore.  I would think the best option would be to say I haven't spoken to him in a while or not say anything at all.

Ali

Hence, the "lets speculate"... ::)

yea lets speculate on axl's interviewing dos and donts in the VR section.   well done keeping your topics in order falcon.  : ok:

Jarmo spearheaded this one JB....  What is falcon going to do?  Kick him out or lock thread? 

Axl's mentioned the old band twice in interviews just in the past year. The only reason he hasn't done it more is because he only crawls out of his hole to talk to people 2 or 3 times a year. We see more of Slash's quotes because he's out there doing tons hundreds of interviews all over the country to promote the VR albums, it's obvious that the question will get asked at some of those interviews.

Still, it's totally overblown, if Slash gets asked about Chinese Democracy and mentions Axl's name, that means he's looking publicity? Like everyone is going to hear the name Axl Rose and flock to the interview? "OMGZ HE MENTIONED AXL!!! WE MUST GO BUY THE VR ALBUM!". Some of you guys seriously need to come into the 21st century. Axl's name doesn't hold anywhere near the weight it once did and the idea that Slash mentions him once an interview to "get publicity" is fucking laughable.

As you said, he's never dissed Axl's talent and visa versa from Axl, but both obviously have different views on the demise of the band and have made no bones about talking about it in interviews they've done.

You need to clean out the wax once in a while...

Then how do you explain the fact that Axl never once mentioned Slash or Duff onstage this year or last?  He did plenty of times in 2002.  Maybe he's just moving on?

Ali

not really.  what happened in this topic is due to the typical vr fan/gnr hater defense of 'oh since you dont like vr/libertad i'm going to tell you axl sucks blah blah blah'.   the only way these guys can defend their band is by dissing axl and guns n roses.

O.k. ?Fine. ?We can speculate about anything and everything, but if you wnat to do that, fine. ?He was asked about Slash at the Korn party in January of last year, and he responded "I haven't spoken to Slash in ten years," Rose says. "I love the guy, I always wanted everyone to know how great he was, but.... I was just talking to Izzy the other day though." ?Nothing rude or insulting about that.

Ali

Moderating advice from Jim Bob.

Oh the irony... 8)

It is a GNR forum you know. :rofl:

anytime bro  :)   i like u despite the fact that you gave me 2 of my 3 neg karma points, and i wanna help out however possible.  :smoking:

i would speculate that axl quite possibly makes it clear not to ask questions of the old band and it would make sense that he would rather focus on what he is doing now as opposed to whats going on with the past.  but who knows.
 

He isn't really talking about ANYTHING on stage these days though. His ranting days are pretty much over.

hey guys, we don't know shit ! It's like the story about Slash came to Axl house...

We are just nerds who loved GNR music ! Slash/Axl know better than anyone else (from the 1-post member to the admin Jarmo) the facts of GNR history. They didn't ask us when they rock the world in 92'. Remember they were best friends at the time so maybe we should shut the fuck up because they don't care of our advices. You know it's like if someone you don't know comes and says "what the fuck you did with your girlfriend? ::) ".

I just don't like how some GNR extremist fans want to break old members image because Axl told "naaa Slash is the bad guy". It's funny how these same fans might not dare watching their Tokyo DVDs and listen to old cds ("Slash IS the bad guy ! New lineup IS guns n' roses contrary to old one ! Amen !")

by the way Its so easy was duff and wes arkeens song, not izzys.

Sadly, I think the old members did a good enough job at breaking their own images......

this discussion is simply ridiculous.... :no:

slash talks about axl to get attention? yeah right... he gets the attention of some gnr internet whores like us, but that`s it.
the sales numbers and chart position of libertad should be evidence enough.

point is, there is no war between the original gnr members anymore, if there ever was. the only people still discussing this shit are, again, the gnr internet whores...   slash said he was a big part in the old gnr breaking up and he isn`t bitter about axl anymore, unlike some years ago. interviews should prove that aswell...  unlike some years ago he doesn`t talk shit about axl anymore, but only mentions him in a more than polite way. many members of this board seem to ignore this fact though. like there are lots of people bashing axl no matter what he does, there are people on this board finding reasons to bash slash at any opportunity as well..

it`s seems absurd to me, how anyone on this board expects slash, duff or axl to stop mentioning each other, considering their past.  i think it takes an enormous amount of arrogance to judge about things like that. it`s their past and you think you have the fuckin`right to tell them what to do?    sorry, but you can`t be serious...

for like 2-3 years we only hear nice things from slash, duff and axl. they got over it, unlike many people on this board...

Good points - however, going on some of the things that have been raised over the past few days, it has also been important to remind people of certain things that went on between band members - the comments by Adler have been very misleading. And Scott certainly does not have my forgiveness in any way.......

I agree, all should move on......hopefully things have been put straight so that the new GN'R album can be released and discussed without all this shit being raised again.

I would just like to make a correction to your post. You refer to the only people discussing this shit are the "gnr internet whores" - in my opinion, it has been the VR internet whores who have been more anatgonistic......

21   28   VELVET REVOLVER   LIBERTAD RCA/RMG      21,361   -35%





/jarmo

Right, back on topic then...... :P

oh my..  i had no idea it was that far back.   i'm not sure it can come back from that.

definitely not...  i can`t see songs like the praised last fight push this album back into the top ten...

I've just read through Booker's posts regarding comments made by Axl about Slash. He has posted them as an example of Axl going off about Slash. They are very balanced. I've highlighted some important sentences in red. I don't see it as Axl bitching about Slash at all.

If Slash felt he could pull off an album without Axl's input why hasn't that been reflected in the latest VR album?

Fact is, Axl is a very gifted and talented musician and composer (classically trained) - seems ridiculous to me that the rest of the band didn't want his input on that last album (the one that became Slash's Snakepit). Slash must have had a really distorted view of reality at the time. Success had really gone to his head......

Guns N' Roses without Axl, is more like VR with Scott as the lead singer....... :confused:

booker used those quotes to prove axl talked about slash and duff......


of course he did.  but he was fair : ok:

I'm sure I did read the words "where he demonstrated the following pettiness".........

But yes, Axl has been more than fair.

i think dimestore rock. beggars and hangers on, take it away, doin fine, i hate everybody but you, back and forth again, what do u want to be are pretty solid songs that woulda been great as the next guns n roses album i guess Slash wanted everything his way which is a pretty gay way to be acting in a band, im always open to new ideas in my band

http://www.gnrfrance.net/presse/details_int.php?itw_id=16&page=5

BTW.....Axl did mention Slash during the Eddie Trunk interview, it's about halfway down the page.


Axl:  .....Use Your Illusion is....(sigh) basically Slash wanting to take over the band........

You can almost see it in the Estranged video or is it somewhere in Dead Horse. There are shots of Slash's strutting around with no shirt on.....Axl is in the baggy t-shirt/short gear........just a visual observation to illustrate your point.

Sorry, I don't understand.  Slash with no shirt on means he's trying to take over?

No shirt + strutting - it's all in the body language....

This should have been enough to get the thread back on topic.

So..

Back on topic.

Anyone have any idea the actual numbers and % drop off Contriband had in its 3rd week?

Aren't those the numbers Jarmo posted above?

Yes, the numbers are also part of the analysis as to why Libertad may have debuted well below Contraband. ?:P

Those are Libertad's

Going from 21 to 28 isn't all that bad. Wait for the new single to get some spins (although it's dumb to wait a month) and the tour to start. Libertad could be like the last Buckcherry, which took a while to go platinum. I know a lot of you want this album to bomb, but don't start digging the grave of VR just yet.

WOW are those US sell figures?

If so that really sucks and is disappointing...................




Last thing about Axl and I am officiallyshutting up about it:


Its naive to think that the US press aren't gonna have a field day asking questions about the old bandmembers.

Axl will either have to have some sort of deal NOT to have any questions or he will have to be diplomatic and just give the political "Im glad they are doing well and I wish them the best" line or say NO Comment.

Foreign Press are a little more respectable but the US press are gonna ask

"What Happened to the old band"
"Why did u keep the name"


He is gonna be asked that so many times here and thats just the way it is.



So unless he doesn't plan to do much press in the US for Chinese Democracy, He is gonna have to say something about the old bandmembers and He, like Slash and Duff won't be doing it for publicity or for anything else other than to answer a question and get to the next one.

Like it or not they will forever be linked.

Oh yeah, sorry.  VR needs to get away from these one word titles so I can keep them straight.

these sales figures are god awful....i wonder how many weeks its going to take libertad to match what Contraband did in its first week.....they are still over 100,000 sales away from that mark...and its been 3 weeks.....my guess its about 6-10 weeks

And Axl knows full well what he's getting himself into by keeping the name, it WILL be interesting to see how he handles the questions once he starts doing more press.

21 to 28 isn't terribly unexpected... Look at the tumble the Pumpkins took in their second week, 75% !!

true...but Velvet Revolver is a GOOD band...thats why its a big deal their record is dropping so quickly....we arent talking about some over-rated whiny 90's bullshit.....

I'm not sure why numbers matter to everyone-I loved Tommy Stinson's solo record, which may not have sold much, but it's still a beautiful album-I loved Contraband, really don't like Libertad, but when do album sales determine how good or bad a band or album is? Take a look at TSI to see some of the bands that influenced GNR

There is a lot riding on this... Scott said that Nick Lachey would get inducted into the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame before Chinese Democracy sells a million copies.  Obviously everyone can only be a fan of either Guns N' Roses or Velvet Revolver... If Libertad doesn't sell one million copies, it will give GN'R fans a strong comeback against VR fans in future arguments.

e.g. Jim Bob says: "Scott talked trash about selling a million copies and Libertad tanked."

I dont get this whole VR vs. GNR thing....look I think everyone can agree that Scott Weiland is an overated ass clown who  was lucky that Chris Cornell was in Audioslave otherwise he would probably still be unemployed......But Slash is still Slash...Duff is still Duff, and as far as im concerned Matt Sorum is the original drummer for Guns N Roses...if there was ever a reunion you can bet that it would be Sorum behind the drum set.....not that junkie who continously rips Axl to anyone who will listen...oh wait actually he is in "kiss Axl's ass" mode right now...but will go back to bashing him in a few months.....anyway back on topic...i think it is possible to like BOTH bands...not being able to like both Nirvana and GNR is understandable....but not VR and GNR.....you can like both bands as long as you remember the most important thing...Scott Weiland is a douchebag

Not... A... Single... Sensible... Thing... Said.... Between.... Each.... '.....' ....

so which of my points do you disagree with?....

1. Scott Weiland is overated and was lucky all the other good singers were taken when VR was formed
2. Slash, Duff and Matt are still great
3. Steven Adler is a junkie who keeps bashing the new band
4.Scott Weiland is a douchebag
5. it is possible to like both bands as long as you remember number 4.

Well, it is his father's name after all!

Well I've listened to Libertad about 15 times now and although Contraband still rocks, Libertad is growing on me.  It is definitely different.  It's a throw back and new sound all together.  I've listened to it on regular stero and on a bose system which makes a difference.  It's a good C.D.  It is still melodic and ballad like but it's good.  I still prefer the harder Contraband stuff but every band evolves.

For starters...

How is Scott Weiland overrated? ?He's been consistently trashed over his career for being an Eddie Vedder clone, a junkie, and now as a frontman not worthy of Slash.

Scott has never had a problem releasing music and would have most likely continued with or without the VR bandmembers.

Cornell fronting the band is wild speculation.

not being able to like both Nirvana and GNR is understandable -- ?Sure, it's understandable if one of the bands doesn't suit your musical tastes. ?It's also understandable to not like both Milli Vanilli and GNR. ?Reading between the lines suggests that you think it's "understandable" to dislike Nirvana simply because they had a fued with Axl/GN'R... if you buy into that, how is it different with VR?

Steven Adler recorded on GN'Rs first release, therefore = original drummer. ?A reunion is extremely unlikely, so who's to say who would be behind the kit? ?and who's to say what Steven will be saying to the press in the future?

anyway back on topic - The topic is Libertad's album sales compared to Contraband, not whether or not it's possible to like VR and GN'R

---

"i think it is possible to like BOTH bands" was sensible, but it was tough to find.... plus it got cancelled out by this "5. it is possible to like both bands as long as you remember number 4."

That leaves you with... "But Slash is still Slash...Duff is still Duff"   : ok:

so you are saying its not possible to like the band and still hate Weiland?

and the only reason the Nirvana feud is different than a VR feud is that Kurt Cobain called GNR "talentless people who write crap music"? he pretty much dismissed any impact GNR had on the music business...along with krist novaselics famous remarks "when nevermind came out there were no rock bands at the top of the charts...at least any important ones"? well Use Your illusion 1 and 2 occupied the top 2 spots of the chart when Nevermind came out...and if you think of the classic GNR line-up...Matt Sorum was there when GNR took over the planet in the early 90's, so Steven Adler can take his cowbell and shove it up his ass..Not to mention Sorum blows him away on drums. you also answered you own question when you said how is Scott Weliand overated?? i think the vedder, junkie, not worthy of slash frontman sums it up pretty well....the bottom line is if Scott Weiland wasnt such a jerkoff there would be no VR/GNR feud....actually there really isnt any type of feud....Weiland is the only one who talks shit.....i havent seen Slash, Duff or matt say anything THAT bad...although they are famous for a few cheap shots here and there.....

anyway this whole thing is going nowhere......so lets drop it....agree to disagree.....now lets get back to Scott running his mouth about album sales and his latest release tanking.......

Well, I don't really like Weiland, though I respect his talent vocally and onstage (though not as a writer), but I do like VR because of Duff and Slash mostly.

Ali

back to album sales....how many weeks till libertad matches the first week sales of contraband....counting the 3 weeks it has already been out....i say 8 weeks.....anyone?

It'll be probably be more than 8 weeks.  To match Contraband' s 256K debut in 8 weeks, it would have to maintain its sales figures for this week without dropping for the next 5 weeks which I don't think is likely.  It will most likely continue to drop in sales each week at least until The Last Fight is released, which is 4 weeks away.  I think it'll be more like 10 weeks

Yep, I agree.

The tour will have to be in full swing and the new single out for at least a month.

I don't give a shit about record sales.  The album speaks for itself.  What is evident is how ineffective SBQM is as the first single.  Get Out The Door would have exploded over the airwaves.  Or even Just Sixteen.....or She Mine or Mary Mary.  Pills, Demons even. 

Most people who bought Contraband don't even know this follow-up is on the shelves.  Libertad is far better than I expected.  That's all I care about.  It's in my car.....could care less if it is in the car in front of, next to or behind me.

yeah, I was just gonna mention that.
he said how Its So Easy was a country diddle written by Duff and West Arkeen, and that it didnt take shape till Slash and himself started raping it.
and it was Duff, not Izzy, that went 'what happened to my song?'

He did, but it obviously wasn't in any derotagory kind of sense.

Ali

Slashs latest comments werent either and that didnt stop your friends from piling on, did it?

When was the last time Slash said something bad about Axl though?

to be more exact... it was west not duff : ok:

i don?t think axl will have a problem with talking about the old members.... he already did and he`ll continue to answer those questions. i think the "difficult" phase is over

I think Axl is past it too. When he went on Eddie Trunk's show, he really did'nt seem to have any problems discussing anything, and has said some nice things about Slash in the past year or so.

Are you trying to hold me accountable for someone else's words? 

Oh yeah, I misspelled derogatory :)

Ali

It's been a while, yes, but for a few years his comments indicated resentment towards Axl.  He's never dissed his talent, though.  His moron singer does that.

Ali

The point I am making is



GNR die hards like Jarmo and Jim Bob are tryin to act like Slash talks about Axl to promote VR and to try and get publicity which is bullshit.

Just like WHEN Axl talks about the old bandmembers in future interviews, he won't be doing it for publicity or to promote the new GNR.



U get asked questions and u answer them, I've never once heard Slash or Duff volunteer anything about Axl.

I don't think it's for publicity either, on anyone's end.

A different point is that the notion Slash has always been supportive is crap.  I remember him saying that he wanted to hear the new GN'R record to see what Axl destroyed (or some word to that effect) the band for.  But, just like Axl has stopped ranting onstage about Slash, Slash has also made more and more positive comments about Axl lately.  Maybe they're both moving on.

Ali

No, although you do have a habit for defending statements they make.

I simply asked a yes or no question, one which I know you know the answer to.

I said I suspect they don't want to piss off the journalists who are helping them to promote the album by telling them "no GN'R related questions please" or "no comment".

Instead they just keep going on and on about Axl even after Slash said he would stop.

I kinda understood the GN'R related questions back when Contraband came out because Slash and Duff had basically been out of the picture for the mainstream rock fans since they left GN'R.

But it's not 2004 anymore and yet they keep talking about it.

Are they ever gonna just focus on their own band instead of having to talk about others who they have no contact with?




/jarmo

Answering one question about Axl means they aren't focused on their own band? Get over yourself. Axl is answering questions about the old band and playing songs they helped write, does that mean he's not focused on his new band?

Not to mention GNR is finally off their asses and actually doing something to promote themselves. If anything GNR should pay VR cause they publicize GNR more than GNR have publicized themselves in the last few years. And as for the questions Slash routinely gets asked about colaborations he's done with other artists such as Bob Dylan from the early 90s.

I have a habit for defending other people's statements.  No, sir.  It's up to those who make the statements to defend them, not me.  No, of course not, Slash's statements weren't derogatory.  They've both refrained from making negative remarks about each othe recently.

Ali

I just don't think its a big deal when Slash has basically given Axl his blessing. I don't see how that is a bad thing. His last interviews to me have been very supportive and a burying of the hatchet on his end.

They don't have to reunite as a band to end a feud.

I do however have a huge theory about Duff's interview where he said he wish he would've salvaged the relationship with Axl.


My feeling is, Duff and Slash know that Scott alienated Die Hard GNR fans when he insulted Axl, I mean u don't insult Axl the way Scott did, that was truly stupid and uncalled for.

So to me Duff's interview and Slash's are in a way a kind of spin control trying to possibly win back fans Scott alienated.

To me the numbers dont lie.

It may not be a huge reason Libertad has tanked, but if u are making people choose between u or Axl, Axl is gonna win.


People act like its ignorant to think people would stop supporting VR but hell its happened on this forum.

Matchbox20 once dissed Bon Jovi and I never listened to them again afterwards.

I'm a huge Axl fan and coudn't give two shits and a flying fuck what Scott has to say about Axl. That said I love Libertad.



Well hopefully someday Bon Jovi will diss Bon Jovi and you will stop listening to them too.

Richard its not across the board, Im like u. I love Axl and I don't hold it against Scott what he said. I actually kind of liked it cause I know when Axl decides to fire back its gonna be one of the greatest rants ever.

Feuds are great for music and entertainment.


That being said, not everyone is like u. I know people personally who won't listen to VR just cause of that.