Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I'm sorry but I'm tired of seeing negative posts that bash this board for whatever reason especially when it comes to certain topics.  If Jarmo or other mods delete a topic, then fuck it ... no big deal, obviously there is some form of communication between this site and GNR management.  So if something comes up that management doesn't want, then it's good this board supports what management wants.  And for those that say it's a dictatorship or it's closely monitored, my response is no one forced anyone to sign up. And for following certain guidelines, we are rewarded with exclusive pre-sales, IE/ Hammerstein, LV, or SF.  So our efforts as fans are appreciated.  I know posting on this site got alot of fans through the 2003-2005 period, and I'm sure it got fans through 1996-2002.  This is a great board, it's probably the most credible in terms of posts.  But for anyone not happy with the site, don't post here, don't read it, don't check the site for updates, don't sign up and try to get in on the exclusive pre sales. As Tommy said it "either get on board or get the fuck off"

Yeah there are plenty of OTHER GNR forums you can go to to discuss SOME things that are forbidden here.  So I don't see the big deal.  They're forbidden here for a reason, and we should all respect whatever those reasons may be without questioning them.  If you wish to talk about certain things, there are PLENTY of other places you could do so.  It's that easy.

People don't seem to understand the word censorship.

We all love the band and support them (some more than others).


The way I see that is that if the band says something like "we don't think it's fair for you to judge our new songs based on unfinished leaked demos", then I can respect that and not discuss them (I mean, what's good about them and what I might not like about them).

It's like watching a painting and judging it before it's done. You might get an idea what it'll look like, but it's not the same thing as seeing the finished piece of art.



When you spread the leaks you're doing the exact opposite of what most artists want. You're making sure more people judge the artists' work based on unfinished material.


I guess some fans thinks it's cool to do the exact opposite of what their favorite band wants.

Then when they're called out on it, they get all pissed off and upset......




/jarmo

This  is one way to look at it, and that view has validity.

I think there is also another way to look at the issue  that also has validity.

Most artists--broadly defined (or perhaps a better term would be "creators") share their work with colleagues and others  in order  to get feedback, with the intent to make the final version the best it can be. I know that when I write something, at the point it is "done" but not "finished" I send it to my colleagues for their comments. They do not "judge" me based upon  the  "unfinished" version, but rather make comments and provide feedback that  help me produce a better final product. Thus, I don't really see the danger that  the band is "judged" by its fans based on unfinished songs. In fact, the discussions I have seen regarding leaks could be characterized as the expression  of opinion but I would not characterize them as "judgment."

Thus, I would agree on legal grounds that spreading  leaks are bad, but the discussion of them and the likelihood of negative judgments of the band's music are not valid concerns. IMHO of course.

Because we're not their collegaues? We're the consumers.

To the person who started this post : Well said.

I agree w/ the majority of the things that you said up until the last line. I've never been a big fan of the whole "get onboard or fuck off" line cos from what I've seen that line normally does nothing more than turn threads into old vs new debates.

I would also like to give a kudos to the webmaster & mods of this board for keeping things on track and in a direction that supports the band and their wishes. You gentlemen (and maybe ladies, dunno) deserve a ?:beer: .

I guess when it comes to the leaks I can see both sides of the coin. The band has stated on multiple occasions that they do not want us hearing the leaks because they are not the final end product. This board supports the band's wishes and I respect that.

For years, I slammed the new band every chance I could because I did not believe that they could put out quality material without Slash and Izzy in the lineup. After hearing the March-May leaks, it changed my opinion. I'm not trying to say that I think this version of the band is any better than the original lineup, because I don't. However, now I ?believe that they are capable of putting out a very good album.

What the leaks helped me to realize is that if you can get past these guys sportin the name GN'R, you will probably realize the talent and potential that these guys have as well.

So, I guess you can say that some good did come out of me not respecting the band's wishes. It made me realize that these guys are their own band, despite the name, sitting on some really good material.

On the other side of that coin, I don't think as many fans would run for these leaks if Axl kept them somewhat up-to-date on what exactly is going on with the band and album. I don't think Axl Rose owes me a damn thing but I do believe that him keeping the fans posted as he promised (in his open letter) would deter alot of this negative shit.

I'm sure someone may come back at me with "Well, he would keep the fans/media posted but they only twist his words and that's why he doesn't say anything." Well, that only goes so far and the real fans know the difference between the word TENTATIVE and FIRM. ?At least they should. Even if Axl honestly has no idea when the album is coming, he could at least say that. ?Maybe the exact month and day it's going to happen on is out of his hands, but something tells me that the year isn't.





 

My point still stands, readers are consumers too. Authors often will have public presentations to get feedback on something they are working on, whether? it be at a conference, a symposium, workshop, or some other venue.

Moreover, the logic of your argument falls  apart when you take in consideration the fact that the leaks were being played live, and thus, if the danger of being prematurely judged on an "unfinished" song were real, the songs would not have been played live.

Listening to the songs live at a concert is one thing - recording the leaks and trying to sell snippets over the internet is something completely different.

^You win the prize for being unable  to understand the basic point being made. Please  report to room 007 to collect your ticket for around the world  tickets  (no return).

FYI: the point being made concern artist expression  and  whether "unfinished" works led  to "judgments" about the artist.

The point WAS NOT, AT ANY TIME OR IN ANY WAY, about copying leaks or selling them. So your attempt to change the subject was not merely disingenuous, but ultimatel, unsuccessful. But who is surprised anyway?

My point still stands, I'm just adding another dimension to the argument - the big picture of it all. People do try to profit off these things - the Internet is a big place, my friend.

But yeh, I'd still love those round the world tickets!

Anyways......

At the Adelaide concert, I think I heard Axl mumble something like "thanks to Jarmo"......

(and Baz referred to his My Space site)!

 :yes: