Here Today... Gone To Hell!

This is the Slash interview from Total Guitar this month, credit to Rik at the VR forum for typing it out. Reading this kind of stuff gets me even more excited for the album. Slash and bluesy guitar sounds are a good thing to say the least.

Total Guitar - May 2007

All Guns Blazing
Velvet Revolver return with new album and Slash says: "It's ear candy for the guitar aficionado!"

Slash and the Velvet Revolver boys are set for a sensational return with the release of their second album Libertad next month. The legendary guitarist has told TG to expect big things from the follow-up to the band's debut album Contraband: "Scott sounds amazing on this record, and Matt plays the best I've ever heard him play. Kushner came to the table with two songs and a guitar arsenal, and Duff played amazing... Oh and I thought I played pretty good too."

On past form, Slash's modest 'pretty good' looks like it's going to be the understatement of the year, and he admits to us he really got the blues on this 13-song album - in a good way: "I spent the time from August last year until the record was finished listening to nothing but old blues records. I rediscovered the blues - it was almost like it was new for me, and that had an effect on the way I played. I was in that zone."

But this ain't no laid-back affair. Translated from Spanish, 'Libertad' means freedom and the band certainly do things their way on the new release: "It's more upbeat than Contraband," reveals Slash. "There's a lot of really in-your-face moments like She Builds Quick Machines, Spay and Let It Roll, which is probably the most aggressive song on the record. There are departures, like Grave Dancers, but every song has its moments and even that has an aggressive blues solo at the end. There's a lot of wah on this record too."

You should expect changed in the dynamic between Slash and guitar partner in crime, Dave Kushner. "The big difference between this record and the last one is I was very aware of where Dave's parts are, because they've become key to the songs. Some of them are almost like vocal parts, and sometimes I use them to signal where I'm going to go. It's ear candy for the guitar aficionado."

Libertad will be released on May 28 and UK Fans can look forward to hearing the new songs when the band play the following dates in June" Hammersmith Apollo (5), Cardiff International Arena (7) Download Festival (, Glasgow SECC (10), Manchester Apollo (11).

Definetely what we need!!!!!!!!!!!!!   :peace:

Thanks for the article


Jesuschrist, if that song is the most aggresive song on the record, I may expect a very very soft album... Revealing this kind of info was not very smart imho...

Hot Damn, Blues? Rock? Slash?
Can't wait. :beer:

Considering your signature, I doubt your "humble opinion" is very highly valued by fans of VR.  And for somebody so staunchly opposed to the existence of a VR section, you sure do post here a lot.

This will be THE rock album of 2007, unless..........

Well that's just what I was looking for,  I can't wait now.  : ok:

Agreed.

Posting in a section you're so staunchly against "not very smart imho" either.

Very revealing indeed.

That opening riff is pretty damn aggressive as is the solo. I can't wait to hear the studio version of the song! : ok:

Yeah. Am I the only one who likes 'Let It Roll' much, much better than 'She Builds Quick Machines'?

Good. I already modified by signature. Fair enough.

Now that you dont have to read my signature anymore, am I allowed to say what I think? I have paid a lot of money to see VR live, I saw ''Let It Roll'' performed live, having Slash at 3 meters, and I have my own opinion. I also have an A+ soundboard recording of that song, and Im only giving my opinion, without breaking any rules.

For example, I find ''Slither'' a great song, much more aggressive than ''Let It Roll''. Same for ''Sucker Train Blues''. And after hearing those tracks a million times, and after listening to ''Let It Roll'' several times (one time live), I think that if Let It Roll is the most aggresive song in the album, then the album must be very soft. Is ''soft'' a bad word? Didn't someone in VR said that Libertad was going to be ''danceable''? Didn't people like Pharrel Williams were involved in one song of the album?

About saying a thing like that about one of the three only new songs we know, I honestly think its not a smart move. If ''The Blues'' is the best song in CD, I dont want to know it. I expect more than that, we all do. Is it any bad what Im saying?

Do not tell me what should I post, what should I think, or how much regularly I should post here. I'm giving my opinion without breaking any rule. ''Soft'' is not a bad word or an insult. Grow up a little  : ok:

No one did.


You put thought into this? :rofl:


Coming from someone who takes someone's perception/opinion of a rock band so personal, again . :rofl:

Did I ever say you werent?  Your opinion is that of someone who doesnt like VR, so I doubt its valued by someone who does.


 ???

I never suggested that you shouldnt be allowed to post.


Strange that you like "Sucker Train Blues" all of a sudden, because that didnt seem to be the case a few weeks ago:



"Among Rose's favorites are "Better," "There Was a Time" and "The Blues." - Rolling Stone, January 2006

Not a smart move?


I didnt tell you what to do, did I? 

You dont think this section should exist, and you begrudge the fact that it does, yet you post here often.  Im not sure how you reconcile that.

I don't think you're alone there at all, Let It Roll should've been the first single. It kicks ass live.
The only thing I'm not sure of is the vocals, but even they're growing on me.

Hmmm... I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Fair enough if you think that Let It Roll is 'soft' and you don't want a soft album from VR.
So in turn you want Slash to lie and say there are much more aggressive songs than Let It Roll on Libertad, even if there aren't any... ???

I'm not sure I understand your logic :no:

U cant judge a song from a crappy boot live version.


If someone heard that horrible live version of TWAT for the first time they'd think it was the worst GNR song ever, Same with Better which isnt anywhere near as good live as on the Leak in my opinion.


So I think the album is gonna be amazing, I still love Contraband so I am definitely excited.

You're wrong. I dont think that ''hard rock'' is ''good'' and ''soft'' is ''bad''. And I also dont think that ''hard rock'' and ''aggresive'' are synonimous. RHCP's ''Give It Away'' is an aggresive song without being hard rock. And ''Let It Roll''... well, I dont think that song is aggresive nor hard rock...


Exactly.

I dont think that is a good move. Anyway, at that point, ''Better'' and ''TWAT'' hadn't been leaked (am I wrong?)

One more thing: After hearing TWAT and Better, I also have them in my favourite GNR tracks of all time. What Axl said (if he really said so) has lots of chances of being real.


I do think that. I think a sub-forum inside ex-gunners or a sticky thread should be enough. And I would keep posting a lot on that hypothetical sub-forum or sticky thread. so what?


I listened to ''Let It Roll'' live being stood up at 3 meters of Slash's guitar.
The quality of the bootleg of that show is undefeatable. Flawless. Like Tokyo '92, or Rock Am Ring.
Yes. I may not judge properly the whole song, all parts. But I am perfectly able to know if the song is ''incredibly aggresive'' or not.

Not my case dude, sorry. The TWAT version at Hammerstein 05.12 is, for me, after a year, the highlight of all the 2006 tour (with IRS at Rock Am Ring)

Damn, I can't wait   :drool:...

this is real and honest Rock and roll band...

So "Sucker Train Blues" is a great, aggresisive song, but its not "hard-rocking?"  Okay.  : ok:


And "The Blues" was. 

If "soft" isnt a bad thing to you, why would you say that Slash isnt smart for giving you that impression?

Im not sure whats "not smart" about it.  Hes providing details about his new album, which I think many people are interested in hearing.  Its getting the album press.  So is it not smart because people like yourself, who do nothing but criticize this band, will criticize this band?  He thinks "Let It Roll" is an aggressive song - most here do.  Coincidentally, you - who dislikes the band to begin with - dont agree.  You dont find "Sucker Train Blues" hard-rocking (although it is great and aggressive according to this arbitrary semantic checklist of yours).  You dont think anything from Contraband, other than "Slither," could be called "aggressive."  Or "hard-rocking."  So add these to your belief that the section in which you constantly post shouldnt exist and youll understand why I believe your opinions on VR arent valued very much.

Still, Slash does think it's aggressive and if, like I sad above, it is the most aggressive song on the album, why should he lie and say there are more aggressive songs when there may not be ???

The argument you seem to be making isn't whether soft is good or bad, but that Slash should lie and say that there are more aggressive songs simply to promote the album... ::)

Oh, and hearing stuff like: Slash calls new album "Ear candy for the guitar aficionado! makes me really excited about this album! : ok:

English is not my own language. Spanish is. When I talk about ''hard rock'' Im talking about a music genre.

So yes, ''Sucker Train Blues'' is a very good song (I think ''great'' is too much; ''great'' is ''Enter Sandman'', ''great'' is ''Smoke On The Water'' or ''Old LA Tonight''), aggresive, but I wouldn't include that song into the ''hard rock'' music genre.

Is it so damn hard to understand? I could give you a lot more examples. You want one example of GNR? Bad Apples. Bad Apples is a very good, aggresive song, but It's not hard rock.

In the particular case of Let It Roll, I dont think that is a great/very good song, it could be aggresive (in one way or another, but I expect a lot more of three ex gnr members) and it is definitely NOT a hard rock [genre] song

I hope this is it. Geez.


How many times do I need to tell you that I still think its not a good move to say ''this is the best track'', when the  album is not released yet but the song in question has been played live several times?

I do not fucking care if it is Axl, Nelson Mandela or Weiland who says it; I still think its not a good move. Ufff...


It's quite simple: I haven't read one review of an user from this forum saying that Let It Roll is a killer song. I saw multiple opinions, ranging from good, catchy, average, mediocre and horrible. So, there is not an absolut consense about  how good is the song.

And now Slash says that that song is ''the most aggressive''. Opinions ranging from ''average'', ''mediocre'' and ''horrible'' (lots) now know more or less what can they expect. If someone is telling you that a song that you like just a bit or you dont like is the ''star'' of the album, then its understandable that you may feel a little dissapointed


I think I've already showed you that I do not give a flying fuck if my opinions are valued by VR fans, basically because I'm posting in a Guns N' Roses forum with a VR section (at least, for now), and I am just giving my two cents on this subject, without breaking any rules. If you dont value my posts, why do you quote me?


 :rofl:

So you want to convince me that all the artists in the world say the truth and nothing more than the truth when they're promoting their albums?  :hihi:

Matt Sorum said in an interview that ''Contraband'' was the best album he has ever recorded. You need to be REALLY fucked up if you think that Matt does think that.

And yes. If Slash says ''There is a track called xxxxxxx (unheard song) that is incredibly aggresive and bla bla bla'' people would be very excited, because they have something unheard that is really promising. That could make people buy the record, simply because the only thing they have as a proof is Slash's word. That would work with me. But now it doesnt, because I already know that Let It Roll is a mediocre-flat song, because I've heard it several times.

I'm not trying to say otherwise, I just don't know why you would want Slash to lie to you to sell something about the album that isn't true in this case.

Let's say for example, Slash said "there are much more aggressive songs on Libertad than Let It Roll" so you buy the album expecting more aggressive songs than Let It Roll, and there isn't, wouldn't that just annoy you more that you were fooled into thinking otherwise? You've already said you don't like Let It Roll, why do you want Slash lying to you about other songs you haven't heard just to convince to buy?

Like I said, you have weird logic... ???

In any case you should thank Slash for being so honest, and maybe you won't HAVE to buy the album, only to be disappointed. : ok:

You said "Slither" is a great song...and then said "same for "Sucker Train Blues."  Is this another language issue?  Or just you being inconsistent...again?

So you think "Slither" is a "hard rock" song?  Whats the distinction between that and "Sucker Train Blues," stylistically, that makes it "hard rock?"  And can a song rock hard without being hard rock?  Conversely, can a song be within the hard rock genre and not rock hard?  Do your semantics really have any meaning?


Then what is it?


Sounds like a hard rock song to me.


Slash didnt say that, did he?  And wasnt it you who said that "soft" isnt synonymous with "good" or "bad."  Now it means "best."


I said "aggressive."  Youre talking about "good," "average," etc.  So they are synonymous?  And since you mentioned it:


You responded to this in the next post by the way, so I think you read it.  Then again, English isnt your first language, so perhaps you just misunderstood?






Not sure where you saw "horrible," though.  Can you post the quote?


"Aggressive" means "star of the album."  Gotcha.


It puts things in perspective.


Maybe he does?  What do you know?


1.) Youre not a VR fan.  So presuming that your opinion/meaningless-song-checklist applies to people who are VR fans, or Slash himself, is probably useless.

2.) Youre quoting him wrong, once again.  Did he say "incredibly aggressive?" 

3.) Would you say that your opinion is in the minority in this forum?

estebanf, you are no doubt entitled to your opinion, but you are just running in circles with your answers here. :hihi:


Give it up already. : ok:

Matt probably said that about CB cause he felt more involved in the album making process. Remember when He joined GNR he was more a hired gun when UYI were being made and all the songs had already been written pretty much, so he probably felt more like a session musician.

CB was probably the best album he felt most apart of making. He did write Set Me Free right?

I think before continuing this discussion, you should define the following terms, just so, everybody is on the same page:

1) Aggressive
2) Hard Rock
3) Soft
4) Great

Now, Fight!

What does this sentence mean in spanish? or at least can u explain it to me with another words?

It basically mean ear candy for the guitar lover...

What's aggressive to Slash might not be for the rest of the world.


I remember Duff describing their cover of Negative Creep as sounding like "almost death metal" or something similar. Well, it's not.



Oh and for Mikkamakka: Slash is confident about their album but still didn't make any comparisons to classic rock records. Look, it can be done! Maybe he'll let others compare.....



/jarmo

If youve explained it already, I forget - what was the difference between what Weiland said and Axl calling GNRs unfinished work the "1996 Aerosmith Rocks?"

Can't wait.  Hope they come to Minneapolis.

Genesis, please pay attention to who brought up Axl in this thread!

I sure as hell didn't, but I guess it's my fault because I compared Slash's comments to Scott's. Both are in VR, but I guess that's not allowed either?

Let's see how you can turn this one against me.



I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out.

Axl was complementing Slash's riffs! He didn't talk about his own music, he was complimenting a guy who left the band.... He said they were the meanest riffs since Rocks. He didn't say the album was as good as Rocks. He said it could've been the 2000 version of Rocks. But since Slash didn't wanna do it, it never happened.

You know that could mean it's a traditional rock album with a modern sound.....

While Scott says their album is a classic like Exile....


No difference at all is there Booker.....  :hihi:





/jarmo

So would it be correct to say that had Weiland said that Slashs riffs on the new album were up there with the ones on Exile On Main St., you wouldnt have a problem with it?  Or is it only okay to make comparisons to classic albums when youre discussing former band members? 

This stuff basically means nothing really, I mean has their ever been an artist or musician that comes out and says "Our new record is gonna suck?"


 everytime Bon Jovi release a new album Jon raves how its the best one they've ever made.

Its just what bands do to hype it up.? We will have to judge it for ourselves. To some it will be amazing, to some it will be good, to some it will suck.

Scott can say whatever the fuck he wants. He usually does about things he has no idea about.....


It's ok Booker, maybe you really think Fall To Pieces is a song that everybody knows just like Scott assumed it would be.

Maybe you also think Scott is the new Mick Jagger and he really can create classic rock albums that'll be talked about in 30-40 years.



Scott didn't compliment on somebody else's work, he was patting his own back.

Slash complimented the other band members and then was quite modest about his own input.

That's the main difference.




That's natural.

But not everybody says he created an album that's gonna be a classic album.

Scott is a huge rock star in his own mind and he doesn't seem to understand that Slash is the star in the band in the world outside the US.






/jarmo

Like this?


Or this?


Or:


Or:


Of course youll spin all of these as drastically different from what Scott said, and for a very simple reason: you dont like Scott.  Therefore, its your natural inclination to criticize something he says, even if you have no problem with similar sentiments expressed by artists you like.

And Scott complimented the bands album, not his vocals or writing. 

Estebanf, you have a serious problem to understand musical genres...

for you INXS is hard Rock and Velvet Revolver is POP, World is too different my friend... :smoking:

Only a few weeks to have Libertad in my hand or ears...   :beer:

I've given up, you know. It's pointless basically. Like trying to separate two Siamese twins joined at the head. So I'll just sit and watch.

Now, Fight!

so wait, is the album coming out in May now or did they just mess that up.

Probably. You dont have idea of how hard is for me to say my exact thoughts in another language besides my own one. I could probably say it better in spanish, but no one would understand me. I have a very difficult time trying to understand what is the exact meaning of, for example, ''hard rocking'', because there is not an expression like that in spanish. When I talk about hard rock, Im talking about a musical genre.

In just a few words, these are my thoughts. I cant quote Booker Floyd, I cant try to respond him sentence by sentence because there are lots of words and expressions I dont know. Language limitations:

* Let It Roll is not a song to be included in the hard rock genre. Examples of hard rock songs [genre]: Thunderstruck, Psycho Circus, Smoke On The Water, One, etc. I think this is not a matter of opinions: ''Like A Virgin'' is pop, no matter what your/my opinion could be.

* Aggresive songs can be found in almost all musical genres, not only in hard rock [genre] songs. ''Give It Away'' is aggresive. Faith No More's ''Epic'' is aggresive. Rolling Stones' ''You Got Me Rocking'' is an aggresive song. None of them could be included in the hard rock music genre.

* If artists want to sell more records, they should be very careful with what they say before releasing an album. What if Slash back in 1991 had said ''My World is the [insert superlative here] of the album'' before the album release, and My World were played live or intentionally leaked before it? Its NOT the song the problem. The problem is that you're allowing people to speculate, simply because they already know the song, and now they now that that song is the best at at least one aspect: aggressiveness. If you were expecting for aggressiveness (like me), and you dont find that song aggresive (like me), you have to feel necesarilly dissapointed (like me). Not in this forum, but for example I've read 3 posts exactly with my same thoughts. Well, now we are, without any need, 4 dissapointed people, 4 copies sold less.

* Slash's/Matt best virtue never was credibility/honesty. A month ago, there was an interview of Slash saying that ''there will be no more GNR songs in our setlist''. Last VR show, Weiland said another completely different thing. Matt said that Contraband was the best album he has ever recorded. You need to be nuts to believe him. The single ''Live And Let Die/Live And Let Die (Live)/Shadow of Your Love'' was recorded by Matt, and just that is already better than Contraband, and I am 100% sure Matt knows it. But he was smart enough to say a little white lie to try to excite people.

 The single ''Live And Let Die/Live And Let Die (Live)/Shadow of Your Love'' was recorded by Matt, and just that is already better than Contraband,

Stating opinion as fact on subjective subject matter such as music is again, goofy. :yes:

Stating opinion as fact on subjective subject matter such as music is again, goofy. :yes:

What about this? Is this ''subjective'' and ''goofy''?

---

About Slash's credibility:

In an interview with Rock & Pop  radio in Chile, Slash, said that after the South American Tour, they are not going to play
Guns N Roses, or Stone Temple Pilots songs.

(http://www.rockandpop.cl/archivo/2007/04/fotos_velvet/0.jpg)

http://www.rockandpop.cl/scripts/rp/archivo/template.asp?/2007/04/fotos_velvet/velvet
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=45020.0

May 4
Hollywood, CA Show Info

Thanks to Josh, here's the set list for last night's show at the Avalon in Hollywood, CA: Let It Roll, Do It For The Kids, Sucker Train Blues, Superhuman, The Last Fight, She Mine, Fall To Pieces, Just Sixteen, Vasoline, Get Out The Door, She Builds Quick Machines, Set Me Free, Wish You Were Here, Used To Love Her, Psycho Killer, Slither.

http://velvet-revolver.com/index.php?p=news#n070504_1

What does that have to do with your silly statement?

Slash's credibility?, Gimme a break scott and probably the rest of the band still wanted to play the songs, Slash didn't and he was probably overruled that's called democracy. I know that's a concept you're not familiar with when your favourite band is guns n'roses...

Are you not a mod? I bet if Esteban said that to you, you would have slapped him with negative karma. Stop with the double standards man.  :P

This is a Guns N' Roses message board ruled by one (or various) Guns N' Roses fan(s)... who doesn't have GNR as favourite band here? Are you kidding me?  ???

I dont care about democracy in a band. I want good music. If good music needs a dictatorship inside a band, well, who cares?

How can moderators of this section can stand all the shit their boss Jarmo say on one of their favorite bands (i guess) ?:no:

I can't wait for Libertad, what Slash said is very promising ?: ok:

Queen is my favourite band, Guns is a good second...



That's officially the stupidest post I've ever read, Good job ?: ok:

It's too ironic that an Axl Rose' s sentinel criticize to Slash about his "CREDIBILITY".

I hope you were being sarcastic..

Cool. Stay with your ''democracy'' (the inclusion of that word to exemplify a rock band metodology is already very stupid, and suggests me that you do not have a fucking idea of the meaning of that complex word) and keep listening to mediocre songs. How many people said in this forum that Guns N' Roses was an Axl Rose ''dictatorship'' in the illusion era? Well, I prefer that ''dictatorship'' with songs like Estranged, November Rain, Breakdown, Dead Horse, etc and not a ''democracy'' with crap songs like ''Spectacle'', ''Come On Come In'' or ''Let It Roll''.

No, come on, tell him he's pathetic.

I mean, this has nothing to do with Axl and look at him.

He just keeps going and going.

 


No, I guess the record company decided to push it back to a date in July when there's no competition so they can get to #1.




Booker keep quoting, I know you love Scott and will have to try to discredit Axl and/or me by using quotes from 20-15 years ago and taking things out of context.


The biggest difference between Axl saying something and Scott saying something is that one has the talent to actually write a classic song.

Time has proven Axl was right. NR is a classic. Not only the guitar solo or the song itself, even the video is a classic music video. Nothing Scott has made comes close and I don't think he suddenly learned how to write songs in that caliber. So maybe 20 years ago I would've thought Axl's comments were funny, but after they released AFD which was filled with instant classics (unlike Contraband), it wasn't that far fetched that their next album might contain at least one song that people would remember 15 years later.



Now I hope a mod here will tell you to stick to discussing VR in the VR section and I assume Genesis will call your attempts of hijacking this thread pathetic or something similar.


/jarmo

I wasn't being sarcastic no, but I was joking.

1. How am I discrediting Axl?

2. How did I take anything out of context?


And rationale keeps on "evolving"...

First it was the mere principle of comparing a new album to a classic one that seemed to bother you, but now we see that it wasnt about principle at all; it was just another opportunity to take a lazy shot at a singer you dont like. 

Slash has written some classic songs as well, yet you praised him for not comparing  them to the classics; if the standard is now whether one is capable of writing a classic song (in your opinion, anyway), Slash would be perfectly justified, wouldnt he? 

But since Slash and Duff both wrote those GNR classics, and they belong to Scotts band, then the talent for classic songs is there, isnt it? 

And while you might counter that Europeans never caught on, Scotts songs ("Sex Type Thing," "Plush," "Interstate Love Song," and others) are indeed classics in his, and GNRs, home country.  They were not only huge hits during their times, theyre in constant radio rotation over 10 years later.  As much as GNR, in fact.


Thats not the point.  He made those statements before the song was heard.


Again, this is only your opinion; steady radio play 10-15 years later suggests the contrary.


You brought up Scotts comments; I illustrated that such boasting isnt unprecedented and your initial argument crumbled, so I cant blame you for hoping for moderator intervention.

 ???


So you snivel about your inability to effectively communicate in English, yet you attack somebody else for their semantics?  Youre not even consistent in your insults towards other posters.  :hihi:

By the way, you said that youd seen someone describe "Let It Roll" as "horrible."  Can you show us who said that?

Can you tell me three of these songs? (They need to be written by him)


You need to know that I perfectly speak spanish. Moreover, I manage to make me understand in english. I think its quite good, I mean, could you discuss this same subjet with me in spanish? So I dont think its funny to make jokes on the way I write in english, when you had lots of other things to quote from my post than this. You chose to quote this to feel you're so smart... good for you.

If you want to discuss how good am I at english, MSN me. If you want to discuss why Slash has never made a classic without Axl, why Slash one day says one thing, a week later another, why you look incredibly ridicule trying to make comparisons between Axl Rose classics/songwriting skills with ... Scott Weiland, then stick to the topic and get rid of your jokes about my english skills.

Tongue in cheek is good. :yes:

Do you really wanna go there?

If so, riddle me this:

What "classic' has Axl penned less Slash?

Pick virtually any GNR classic (unless you contend, which you might, that Axl wrote them all by himself). 


But you do think its funny, or fair, to belittle others about what they allegedly dont know about certain words meanings - that was the point.  You tried calling out somebody over a words definition, got called out yourself for another hypocritical display, and now youre back to sniveling.  Im unmoved.

We will know the answer to that once CD is released, but judging the leaks we have heard so far I think Better and Madagascar are strong contenders to become classics...

November Rain
You Could Be Mine (with Izzy)
Estranged
Don't Cry (with Izzy)
My Michelle (with Izzy)

And yes Slash did play on these songs but he didn't write them.  And time will tell but the yet to be released album has some future classics on it for sure.  This is all opinion but to me some of the new songs are neck and neck with the best material of the old band

Ehm are you trying to say that I do not know what Democracy is/means?....I used that terminology to keep it simple for you, hoping that you would understand what I was trying to say....

And I'll sure as hell stick with my "Democracy" because some of the best songs ever written originated from bands that followed the "rules of Democracy".....

The Blues
Catcher In The Rye
Better (although that seems to be mostly Robin)

And the album hasnt' even been released yet. 

November Rain, Estranged, Breakdown. There you have three

And There Was A Time, Madagascar and Better (with Robin) only need to be on the stores to become classics.

I do not have an album of Axl without Slash yet, and I already can answer your question.

See you  : ok:

I love how the only argument a Slash fan can make to defend Slash is to point out things about Axl.

everyone of these threads in the VR section one of these guys always bring up GnR/Axl, never fails.  Otherwise they have no argument.

I'm still waiting for somebody to tell Booker he's pathetic for doing so.




/jarmo

I can do it J-man, but i'm sure i'd get smited for it  :rofl:

Booker you're pathetic for doing that ;)

I just find this whole never ending argument pathetic

Funny...I didnt expect you to offer a real response.

Im still waiting for you to explain how I tried to discredit Axl.  Youre attempting to spin this as me attacking Axl to defend VR, however no attack was made.  In your rush to judgment, you might have simply failed to realize this.  I have no problem with Scotts comments, therefore I have no problem with Axls and didnt imply otherwise.  Once again, you made the negative allusion to Scott and I felt obligated to inform you that similar statements have been made by artists you like.  Then your entire argument shifted and you havent regained your footing since. 

I answered that question the first time I pointed out exactly why in my opinion his comment was amusing.

Since you're such a master of the quotes, go look for it.  : ok:



/jarmo

It's not even about being a Slash or Axl fan, I'm a fan of both.  For a while I was skeptical about how Axl would do without Slash.  After hearing the new material Axl's recorded, which we haven't even heard final versions of, and hearing all the stuff Slash has put out in the same time frame it's pretty clear to me that Slash needed Axl in order to make great songs more than Axl needed Slash to make great songs

Slash's consistency as far as creating great riffs and solos has tumbled considerably.  Axl's lyrics and vocal melodies are as good as they ever were, and Axl's new music is more in tune with what GnR was about in terms of vibe, if not musical style, than what Slash has done since then.  For example Better doesn't really sound like an old GnR song in a musical sense, but it still has that classic GnR characteristic of managing to kick ass while being catchy, having pop appeal without being corny, and of course replay value.  Then there's a song like The Blues which could've been taken right off Use Your Illusion, and which would have been one of the best songs on those albums. 

A lot of what Slash has done since departing GnR has been, for lack of a better word, generic.  The Snakepit albums were a couple great songs shuffled in with a bunch of ones that ranged from "so so" to "pretty good".  Contraband was a good album but with a few exceptions was a generic hard rock album.  And while I really liked Contraband when it first came out, and still think it's a good album, it doesn't have much replay value.  When it first came out I think I got caught up in the excitement of a new album featuring Slash, Duff and Matt that I may have overrated it.  Now, roughly three years, it's just another good but unremarkable album in my collection that rarely sees the light of day

Of course this is all opinion.  But I can't see how anyone could say that Slash's guitarwork since leaving GnR is even close to what it was when he was in GnR

This is one of the best posts I've ever read. Well said mate.

What a sad state of affairs.

I'm a fan of both as well, I guess the word I could have used was "Axl hater" instead.   "Slash fan" was more a nice way to say something else.. lol

 i'm trying not to get any more smites.   

Anyways I agree completely with what you are saying in this post.  Well done.

please.. by all means.  go deeper.

No "classics" yet, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Time will be the judge, we'll know in about 20 years I suppose.

You're kidding, right?

Are any of these embedded in the general music listening publics minds?? Beyond NR, would anyone outside the GNR fanbase even recognize the tunes?

I'm not that schooled on GNR songwriting history so maybe someone could answer, did Axl also write the guitar parts (including solos) for the above?? ?Are you saying Slash had no creative input on any?

So by your definition a song has to be a hit to be a classic? 

Anyway, Don't Cry and You Could Be Mine are famous hits and classic rock tunes that were written by Axl and Izzy so there you have it

Anyway you asked him to name ONE classic that Axl penned without Slash and you admit November Rain is a classic, and Axl wrote that song without Slash so there you have it

Slash had NO creative input?


Hold on there partner, don't put words in my mouth.

I NEVER said NR was a classic.

And again I ask, did Slash have NO creative input whatsoever?

Okay, if November Rain isn't a classic GnR song then what is exactly?  It's probably the most famous GnR song worldwide and is a consensus classic rock tune amongst hardcore GnR fans and just casual fans as well

And you asked "What "classic' has Axl penned less Slash?"

Axl wrote November Rain.  He wrote the piano.  He wrote the orchestration.  He wrote the lyrics.  He's the only person who received a writing credit for the song.  Slash came in and layered guitars over a song Axl had already composed and written on his own, but that wasn't your question.  Same with the way Izzy and Axl wrote You Could Be Mine and Don't Cry.

So your question was answered.  Slash played on those songs so obviously he made contriubtions but that's not what you asked.  There's quite a difference between writing a song, and contributing to a song that's already been written.  Axl and Slash contributed to Patience too.  That doesn't mean they wrote it.  Izzy wrote it

Easy.

WTTJ, SCOM and PC.


Then let me rephrase to satisfy your need to be precise.

What "classic" has Axl penned less Slash's contribution/participation?

Satisfied?

So GnR has 3 classic songs then?  Okay

Axl has proven he can write "excellent" or "classic" songs without Slash's involvement in the songwriting process.  What more of a response do you want?  If Axl had another excellent guitarist lay the guitars down, it would still be a great song.  Whether it would have been as good is impossible to say, we only know what we have, but NR would still have been a great song, I have no doubt about that

I'm not sure what response you're expecting anyway.  First, you're using your own opinion as to what's a classic.   99.9% of Guns N Roses fans would say that NR is a classic, you apparently don't.  Well I commend you for being an individual but I think that the your opinion on that song is not particularly relevant to this discussion.  NR is a "consensus" GnR classic. 

If we're using personal opinions about it, then The Blues and TWAT are classics so there's the answer to your question

I'll agree to disagree on the "classic" discussion.? I have much different ideas on what gets that type of superlative.

Let me state this in simpler, more definable terms.

Since they parted ways, which of the two has accomplished more?

No kidding at all. A great song not necesarily is embebbed in ''the general music listening public minds''. I dont really know what is in the general music listening public minds and what isnt. But November Rain must be one of the top ten most famous tracks in the nineties, and one of the best epic songs in rock history. Trust me: you dont need to be a hardcore GNR fan to worship this song. Everyone knows the song, everyone knows who is the band that did it (unlike lots of very famous songs that people dont know who wrote them) and the whole idea/concept of the song was Axl's creation. He worked on ''his baby'' for years. It is said that Axl started writing the song in 1984. Tracii Guns said that Axl was obsessed with that song. The song itself was made by Axl and his piano. In fact, there is audio available of November Rain with just Axl and a piano. The song is a masterpiece since its conception, and it's Axl's masterpiece. Slash could have never made his outstanding solos without Axl's creation. You do not make a masterpiece with a pair of individual guitar solos. That's why I think Slash needs a brilliant songwritter, and Axl needs himself and a bunch of competent musicians, to be able to keep making great songs. TWAT and Madagascar are there to prove it.. And I'll show you some nice quotes:

Tracii Guns: When we were doing that EP for L.A. Guns, like '83? He was playing "November Rain" - and it was called "November Rain" ... you know, on piano. Way back then. It was the only thing he knew how to play, but it was his. He'd go: Someday this song is gonna be really cool. And I'd go: It's cool now. But it's not done, you know, he used to say. And like anytime we'd be at a hotel or anywhere there'd be a piano, he'd just kinda play that music. And I'd go: When are you gonna finish that already, you know? And he'd go: I don't know what to do with it.

Slash: It's a song that when it first surfaced it was Axl playing the piano

Axl: If it's not recorded right, I'll quit the business.

Matt: The first time I heard "November Rain," I thought: 'What is this shit?, What is Axl doing behind the piano? I want rock!' But I was new in GNR and I thought 'Matt, you leave The Cult and now you're in the greatest hard rock band of the world' He sat at the piano and I was thinking 'This is shit.' Then the song came out, and it's the biggest thing we've ever done! That's why I have this attitude: 'OK Axl, you think we should do that? I'm with you.'

Axl: I feel "November Rain" and "Estranged" have a chance at getting embedded in music culture, so I'm gonna fight for them and seed them with as many people as possible. I get bummed when I hear a great track off a record and the artist says, "Yeah, but the public wasn't into it." I'm like, what do you mean? The public wasn't into "Jungle," either.

I think that Estranged and Breakdown are at more or less the same level than November Rain. Breakdown, in my opinion, has the best lyrics ever in a GNR song, but it is not ''embebbed in people's mind'' like NR. Same for Estranged. But that applies to non GNR fans, but we know how great are these songs, we know who wrote them, and we also know, after hearing Snakepit/VR, that ''hell yes, now I clearly see who was [still is] the brilliant mind in GNR''

That's why these three songs are credited ''Rose'' and no more names. There are ''Rose'' songs, as well as ''Stradlin'' and we have ''So Fine'' for Duff. What about Slash? Slash is a superb guitarist, but he's not a songwritter! That is not a sin, its just how things are! He's not like George Harrison or David Gilmour who are guitar icons that also can make masterpieces in their owns. But I repeat: I'm just saying what I see. Slash never wrote a song like ''November Rain'' in his own (like Axl did) or with other musicians. The best Slash appeared with Axl and then dissapeared. Unless you think that ''Been There Lately'' (the best Snakepit hard rock song IMO) and ''Illegal i Song'' are masterpieces at the same level of November Rain (or Estranged, Breakdown, TWAT, etc)

Slash has released a lot more music.  Axl has written and recorded higher quality music despite not releasing it officially.  The 2006 GnR tour was also more successful than the Contraband tour, GnR has also headlined major rock festivals which is something none of the former members have done at least to my knowledge since leaving GnR

but u gotta understand that hes got the GUNS N ROSES name which has the popularity.  and those songs mentioned are based on piano written by axl so how can u compare to been there lately or illegal i song which are all guitar based. its like comparing apples to oranges. i like both but i cant really say ones better then the other  ;) both bands play totally different styles of music

Some of which that has produced a Number 1 multi platinum album, a couple number 1 rock singles and a Grammy award.

Not bad, not bad at all.


That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

You know, it's fucking good to see a mod defending VR.

I love GNR. But, VR has done wayyyyy more thus far.

And November Rain's solo is often what people remember about the song.. Slash outside the church. It's ionic. You couldn't just "have another player do it." You people who try to downplay Slash's contributions to the original band blow my freaking head away.

I'd like to say just a thing, November Rain and Estranged without the Slash' solos would been NOTHING.

I know, Slash knows, estebanf knows and I am sure that Axl knows.

I'm not downplaying Slash's contributions nor am I saying that his solo wasn't an important part of the song.  But if, say, Brian May had laid down an epic solo over the same track are you telling me that November Rain would cease to be a great song?  It would just be an average, everyday song?  Slash added to the song, his solos on there and the guitar in the outro are awesome.  All I'm trying to say is that Axl wrote and composed the song, and had created a brilliant piece of music before Slash added to it

For what? If you check this thread, it was estebanf who started the comparison:


Apparently, Jarmo you don't seem to understand what I was saying. I'm not against talking about Axl or CD in the VR section. But unfortunately, nobody can say 'Axl' or 'Slash' in the same sentence without dissing one or the other and eventually threads end up like this one.
Comprende?

Okay, so if Axl had written those songs and handed them to Brian May and asked him to lay guitars over them, they'd be nothing?  There's no other guitarist who could have laid down quality music over those songs? 

Whatever, my point is that these songs are "GREAT" cause' were created for a whole band, called GUNS N' ROSES, they didn't create for an only person.

That is simply not true. ''November Rain'' is an Axl Rose creation, recorded/performed by a band.

There is no kind of controversy around this among GNR fans... everybody knows NR is his baby. Have you downloaded ''Use Your Illusion I'' in mp3 format or what? If you have a real copy, take a quick look at the booklet  : ok:

I have to agree with Jarmo.

Boasting is one thing but Axl's boasts are dead on the money.

What song will scott be remembered for?


WTTJ,SCOM,PC,NR will be hard by our great great great grandchildren.

that means that Axl created  the guitar solos and riffs right?, answer me honey  :smoking:

I sure that band granted the rigths to Axl because he was the lead creater of November Rain or Estranged, I bet it.

Lots of times, Songs are credited to who created the base music,lyrics and melodies.

Solos are sometimes considered extras and arent credited as songwriters.


Like a Drummer usually doesnt get credit even though they almost always make up the beats.

His STP stuff. Songs like Plush, Crackerman and Wicked Garden.

And with VR, Fall To Pieces maybe. That song has always meant a lot to me.

You, like Jarmo, have missed the point. 

Jarmo first had an issue with the idea that a musician would compare their new material with a classic like Exile On Main St..  Then once he was reminded that Axl had done the same thing, it was about the individual making the comment, not the principle.  It was a disingenuous criticism from the start, it just took some time to clarify.


Turn on the radio sometime; youre bound to hear "Interstate Love Song," "Plush," "Vasoline," "Big Empty," "Sex Type Thing," or "Creep."  Like it or not, these songs have been embraced as, yes, classics by rock radio.  Whether you agree or not, theyll continue to be played for years to come.  Thats a simple fact.

This discussion of what is "classic" simply cant be continued until a consensus is reached on what defines the word.  I dont see that happening (especially with estebanf), so its probably best that its dropped.   

You're suggesting that ''Big Empty'' is a classic, and I am the problem here?  :hihi:

I'm still confused as to why estebanf wants Slash to lie to him and say that there are more aggressive songs on Libertad than Let It Roll when there may not be. ???

All I can figure is you're basically saying you want to be fooled into hearing something you want to hear about the album to make you like it and in turn make you buy it?

And it ain't about whether bands or artists lie and hype up their albums, because I know that's the case.
But the fact that Slash has said that Let It Roll is the most aggressive song on there and you don't like it, aren't you glad you have an idea of what to expect when it's released?

If you don't then I'm sorry, but I still don't understand your logic...

"Big Empty" is a song that helped propel the album on which it was featured to over 6X Platinum in America.  It receives steady radio airplay 13 years later. 

You believe that unreleased, generally unheard songs are classics.  Thats your opinion; I posted facts.  You can "laugh" if you feel so inclined, but youre probably the only one doing so.

By the way, wheres that post describing "Let It Roll" as "horrible?"  I still cant find it.   ???

Yes. I'm ''glad'' (i dont know if that is the word) because I know what to expect, and I dont see myself buying that album now (I already spent a lot of money to see VR live and was a waste of money/time/illusions).

But I'm trying to think as the artist, not as a fan. I still think that, if you want to sell more records, you need to be careful with what you say. Libertad has 13 tracks, right? Slash knows that VR fans have heard three new songs, so they can make their own conclussions about them. So, he should praise unheard songs (he has 10 tracks left), create expectations in the potential buyers, so they will go running to the stores to buy the album ''because VR's main man said that X song is very aggresive, and I must heard that song now''

I think Slash was honest... but not smart. If you want to sell your product, you need to be a little machiavellian. Like I said, I'm trying to put myself in the mind of the artist.

If before the VR show in my country, Slash would have said in a local newspaper ''we are going to do a very boring show, play 50% covers, ruin Wish You Were Here, leave the stage without interacting a single time with the crowd, use a megaphone in almost all songs, and we are gonna be overshadowed by Evanescence'', then:

* Slash would have been honest
* Slash would have been not smart
* I would never have bought my ticket

It's not his fault you have shit taste in music.  :-\

maybe in america those STP songs are heard, but here in england  i hear jack shit from STP ANYWHERE, rarely they are on music TV, and when they are its just sex type thing.

Old gnr stuff gets played pretty often, for an old band hated by one of our main rock press mags, kerrang.

i like VR, i love slash, i love duff, matts a dick though, and daves cool too, scott to me, spoils the band, his vocals totally hold them back, hes very limited, they should have gotten a better singer.

That doesn't mean anything though.

I've never heard of The Black Crowes either in Holland, before my girlfriend introduced me to them.. and they're pretty good. The thing that made GnR so popular was their image. The more different and unique you are, the more widely known you'll get.

For instance, everybody knows Marilyn Manson  ;D Whether they hate him or not, doesn't matter.. everybody seems to know about him.

I don't like generalizations.

I don't think all VR fans are boring and mildly amusing just because you are.


If some guy, who in my opinion has limited talent, says he made a classic album with his band, I react differently to compared to when somebody who has proven to be able to write classic songs says similar things.


Would I find it funny if Bono said he had written a song that he thinks will be remembered in 20 years? No.

Would I react if CC DeVille said it, absolutely.



Also, a 20-something might say one thing and a 40-something might not say the same thing.

So you're not only comparing two different levels of talent, you're also comparing two different people at two different points in their lives.




/jarmo

no, my point was.

Bands that usally wrote classic albums, get known everywhere, and are still known years later, gnr have that status, just like the rolling stones, aerosmith etc. STP do not ,meaning just cause they are played in america doesnt mean scotts an amazing composer.

Slash made the music to SCOM ;) ?that is something he done and l hate to see fuckheads like Finck ruin it >:(

I quite enjoy Finck on SCOM.  I dare say I'm feeling his version moreso than the original.

(hey you brought Robin into this, not me)

Not to sound chauvinistic, but Stone Temple Pilots is an American band, so other markets are secondary.  America is where it matters most. 

Will people let this thread die already? What the hell was it even about, now?

I think I understand what you're saying now, but I'm still not sure your point of all this.

You think Slash should lie and say "there's more aggressive songs on here than Let It Roll" to sell his upcoming album, but be honest and say "don't come to our crap live show". ???

And I know it's all down to personal opinion, but I had a fantastic time at the two Sydney shows they played here in 2005. The band sounded awesome and had great crowd interaction, and all the songs they played sounded great, even Wish You Were Here.
Oh, and there was no promise about what I would be getting from those gigs aside from going to see VR live, so I wasn't fooled into thinking I'd get anything other than seeing the band live. : ok:

Realizing STP were not "HUGE" outside of North America, I'm not sure some of the people who discredit Scott realize just what he accomplished with STP. ?The guy wrote tons of hits, sold millions of records and won a Grammy long before he met up with Slash. ?As Booker mentioned, STP still gets massive airplay here nearly 15 years after their release of "Core", an educated guess would say STP has more songs on more playlists nationwide than GNR. ?Nothing to sneeze at by any means. ?Granted, do their hits hold the same clout as WTTJ, SCOM or PC? ?Probably not,
but I can promise you a number of their hits get more annual spins than "November Rain". ?

Keep this in mind, Slash had little to no success after he quit GNR. ? Nothing memorable to speak of whatsoever. ?Since his partnering with Weiland, he's had a helluva run. ?We know the stats, hit singles, multi platinum record, Grammy etc. ?Most importantly, he's established an identity outside of GNR which is quite an accomplishment in and of itself. ?I seriously doubt Rod Jackson could have propelled him to those heights. ?Let's not kid ourselves, he's always going to be "Slash of VR, formerly of GNR", and in some cases "Slash: formerly of GNR, currently with VR". ?The legacy is too
strong not to be forever tied to it in some fashion.

Will "Slither" still be heard 20 years from now? ?My guess is no. ?Will whatever single(s) GNR has yet to release do the same, ?who knows? ?

Bottom line: ?

Neither will ever reach the levels of success/acclaim apart than they did together, it just won't happen. ?

Don't let the above lead anyone to believe I'm one of those holding onto hopes of a reunion, I'm not. ?I find it much more interesting to watch their story unfold as separate entities in different bands.

GNR and VR hype will never be what the original GNR had, but the two bands can make some great music.  I don't want a reunion either

That fact is what makes it so funny that people around here like to boast about either VR or New GNR's music being better than the others. It is like they are proud to be considered the more mediocre version of the original Guns.

Neither band has written a darn thing that will supplant any of the original GNR's best tunes anytime soon. So arguing between who is the better of the 2 is like arguing who is the first best loser. It's just stupid. Until one of them pens a song that supplants Jungle, PC, SCOM, or NR in the hearts and minds of the general public both bands are essentially failures because it just proves that Axl & Slash needed eachother to make their best music and bring the best out of eachother.

Don't forget about Izzy..

No one ever seems to want to give Izzy the credit he's due.  But check the writing credits and it's easy to see how important he was  :peace:

For example, Slash could have said this: ''You guys think Let It Roll is aggressive? Well, wait to hear X, Y & Z songs, because they will blow your mind''

That way, you not only are promoting Let It Roll, but also three more songs that people dont know and are not going to know until they buy the album. If you want to know how much more aggresive we can play, find it out buying the album.

But I already know what is the limit of ''Libertad'' aggressiveness. A song that I barely find aggresive.


Great for you. Maybe VR doesnt feel confortable playing in front of 60.000 people that will not understand Weiland's ultra deep rants like it happened here in Argentina.

If there is one thing that the 60.000 people at the River Plate Stadium is going to remember is the god damn Weiland's megaphone.

Jesus Christ, why the hell do you care so much, get a fucking life.

WOW my point made right there.

And what point would that be?

So tiresome to read some trolls hijacking every thread in the VR section.  :-\   If you can't stay ontopic, get away from the thread... or the mods should delete these shitty posts just like they're doing it in the 'current GN'R' section. Ooops, I forgot that some people here have only one aim in their mind: don't let VR be discussed here.

I second that, it seems that just about every thread in the VR section imediately goes to shit and just turns into some big pointless agruement after about five posts.

Point is Jim Bob is one of the new fans who try to discredit and crap on the original members to make the new band seem more worthy or greater than they are.

Sayin he prefers Finck's SCOM over the guy who wrote it to me is blasphemous.

That would be like saying u prefer Adler's Appetite singer's SCOM vocals over Axl's. Its just Wrong on so many levels.

I agree, but we shouldn't care about these kind of posts. Just neglect these guys and stay ontopic, so we can discuss what we think about VR, good or bad. Don't reply to the trolls...

Its not blasphemous.  ITS MY FUCKING OPINION.   Its not disrespecting anyone to prefer a version of a song over another.   Get your head out of Slash's ass.

Of course, it's your opinion, but I'm sure you'll have most people wondering if you're tone deaf. Finck can't even do the bends properly on the solos. Of course, this is all live, so I'll refrain from further comment until they release a re-recorded AFD.

Dont get me wrong Finck is a good guitarist but saying he plays it better than Slash when Slash is the guy who actually wrote the notes he is playing to me is ridiculous.


I can play SCOM note for note does that mean I am as good? HELL NO.

Anyhow My apologies for dragging this off topic further but I do Idolize Slash just as much as I do Axl and I always feel compelled to defend him just as I defend Axl against things I feel to be bullshit.

On Topic:


All I can hope for is that Slash gets a chance to shine properly on this album.

I don't think that's the case.

And related to that:

What does it tell you that Contraband was very successful and Army of Anyone and STP's last album bombed?

Maybe the general public is more interested in GN'R and a band featuring former members of GN'R than STP.

At this point I don't think you can compare Slash with Finck.

Slash-Seven studio albums, a covers album, a live album. A r'r icon for two decades.

Finck-Has played Reznor and old-school GN'R's songs his whole career. Is featured on a couple of demos floating around.

I like Finck a lot and think he has the potential to be a guitar hero...but he isn't there yet.

Until then it's fruitless to compare Mr. Finck with Mr. Hudson.

accomplishments have nothing to do with something sounding more pleasing to my ears.  I just like his style better.  Is that a crime?  am I a blasphmer?  ::)

Saying you prefer Finck's take on Slash's solos is different from saying Finck is a superior guitarist.

The Weiland-less ex-GNR bands disprove that theory, dont they?

Talk Show failed to break out in '98; STP released a record a year later that has sold over a million copies.  So the explanation youve proposed is an easy, but specious, one.  The real explanation has more to do with the DeLeo brothers (and Richard Patrick) being much lower-in-profile than Scott and the GNR members, and subsequently less marketable; but thats always been the case.  I would personally that VRs music is better as well, but thats secondary.


So you would understand if somebody preferred Scott Weilands "Its So Easy" vocals to Axls?

didn't say anything about who is superior.   Although Robin is my favorite guitarist, so in my opinion he is.  He may not have accomplished as much, but I enjoy his playing more than $la$h

well here.. this was the quote taht got all these $la$h nuthuggers all in a hissy fit.  and i only said it because someone decided to bring him into this thread bashing him.  I really dont see how Finck fits into this thread at all.

the above is my personal opinion

the world does not revolve around slash and some people will like other guitar players better.  get used to it.  : ok:

Ah, it's nice to read an extended GNR/VR debate that hasn't been shut down by a mod. And, for the record, I have to side with the VR fans on this one.

I think that's exactly the case.? More records, more singles, more hits, more formats playing them.


It tells me there's little to no interest in a Weiland-less band featuring former members of STP

Jim Bob callin me a Slash Nuthugger but I dont think I have "Slashanator" or SLashisGod as my Title do I?

He is your Fav guitarist cause he plays with Axl, and Slash no longer is cause he doesn't. To me that is being more of a what u called me than I am by appreciating a guy who has proven to be an Icon and Legend many times over.
 


Robin Finck is the John Corabi of Guns N Roses.

Same with motley, even had they not got Vince back, 20 years from now if u would've asked who the vocalist of Motley was people would've said Vince Neil.

Same here. in 20 years the guitarist for Guns N Roses will still be and always will be Slash. Just the way it is.

That's just what you wish, nothing more, nothing else.

I dont know... I think that a comment like that is kinda a ''frustration/resignation post''... if you think VR has a future, it would be cool that in 20 years Slash could be remembered as the VR guitarist.

Me, as a Guns N' Roses fan, I have full faith that the current band members are going to be as big and as popular as the former members, just because I am absolutely convinced that they are as good/talented (or even more) as the former members.

Maybe you are absolutely sure that VR has not the enough potential to be as big as Guns N' Roses.

I am. What about you?

Nothing against the new guys, they're all fine musicians and seem to be good guys as well.

That said..

I can virtually guarranty none of the 3 guitarists will ever have the "rock icon" status that Slash enjoys today.

It just won't happen.

Hey, maybe you could ask why Booker had to bring GN'R into this thread.....

Just making sure you're fair in your thread hijacking statistics.  : ok:


It seems like as soon as somebody questions VR's words, one of you will mention GN'R and blame the person who questioned what a VR member said, for bringing the thread off topic or making it to be about GN'R.

 :hihi:






/jarmo

No need, he probably read the two posts in which I explained it. 

Yeah, I think it wasn't you who hijacked the thread...

Fine.

As long as you state it like a personal opinion, it should be ok for everyone. You have an opinion, I have mine.

What I find kinda sad is stating that ''in 20 years Slash will be remembered as the GNR guitarist'' as a FACT. It's even sadder for VR fans, not for me.

No doubt my friend, it's a fact.

I am so happy, because my favorite artist is in my two favorites band, Guns n' Roses y Velvet Revolver.

That's an interesting analogy, but I consider John Corabi a MUCH better vocalist than Vince, and that album they released with him is Motley's finest effort in my opinion.

As for Robin Finck, I much prefer Slash, but I think that Finck is more than capable and has played great solos in the new songs too.

thats horseshit and a baseless assumption.   It has nothing to do with Axl.  Again, get your head out of $la$h's ass.   Until you do that, there is no point in trying to disucss anything with someone so blind and lame.

Catch me in 20 years, I'll be glad to say I told you so then. :yes:

I'll catch you in 6 months and you'll tell me ''sorry estebanf, I was blinded by nostalgia''  :peace:

Just one more question: You think that Slash will be always remembered as the Guns N' Roses guitarist, no matter what Robin can do from now on. Now... Do you want this?

I truly appreciate the mods and Jarmo for allowing this discussion to keep happening. I realize this thread probably should've been locked pages ago but I think we are having a great discussion.


Saying SLash will be remembered as GNR's guitarist isnt a slight on VR or new GNR but I think sometimes people forget exactly the legendary Iconic stuff Slash created in Guns. I think sometimes people take Slash for granted and dont fully give him his respect.

As great as Axl is, I feel Slash contributed just as much to GNR's legacy and success. his riffs and solos are 2nd to none and I dare say he is the greatest guitarist of his generation and it isnt close.

Who can compare? James Hetfield? NO ?Kirk Hammett? NO ?

Eddie Van Halen may have invented the finger tapping style but I think Slash has way better riffs and solos. *Just my opinion*

I just think people take Slash's side and shit on Axl or vice versa and it isnt fair either way.


I am equal when it comes to both. I like them both equally and acknowledge what they both meant to the band.

Someone mentioned earlier that Slash's Solos have been subpar cause he doesnt have the same masterpiece stuff to work with and that he has just been having to do the best he can with what he has to work with.

Same can be said for Axl. Could the album possibly be taking so long cause the material just hasnt been there? Axl may be having to just work with what he has?

If u listen to the music *Ignore Axl* just listen to the music, Its like Scott Weiland. Its good and its serviceable but its nowhere near all time great stuff.


I hear the live version of "The Blues" and that song could be NR or Estranged but its missing some ingredient, its missing that extra something and to me that is Slash and his brilliant melodies and solos.

Jim Bob, Let me ask u this and I'll shut up. be honest though:
Did u even know who the hell Robin Finck was before GNR? W ould anyone care about Buckethead if he hadn't played with Axl? Did anyone ever mention Fortus or Bumblefoot till they got with Axl?

just about anyone who is a fan of NIN knew who Robin is.

and what you are saying about missing ingredients in the new songs is bullshit.   The songs are great the way they are and probably wouldn't even exist without those guys.   Sorry to break it to ya, but GnR doesn't need Slash. 

If you think Robin will have the same "icon" status in 6 months Slash has carved over the past 20, feel free dude. ?You obviously have no sense of what it takes to reach that height in the pantheon of rock music and popular culture



I think Slash will always be associated with GNR, there's too much history for him not to. ?I don't think the band as it is now will ever reach the heights of popularity, sales or historical significance the original line up had. ?Unless Robin helps write an album that has the same impact AFD had, he will never have the same status Slash had with the band. ?



No. ?

Robin is they key ingredient for me staying interested in the band, check my post history.

I"m just being realistic, I don't think anything this version of GNR does will ever be looked or even mentioned in same sentence with that of the original guys and AFD. ?That record is generally considered one of the top few hard rock records of all time. ?Do you actually think CD will garner that kind of acclaim? ?

Objectivity is a good thing, give it a try sometime.

IMO, Chinese Democracy (the song) stands head and shoulders next to anything on AFD.   

You are probably correct in your statement that GnR will never reach the popularity they did with AFD, and I think that holds true regardless of who is in the lineup.  Even if it was the original guys it would be no different.    But GnR's history hasn't been written yet.

A band with Slash and Duff with any high profile singer would do better today then an STP album or Talk Show or AOA.

Jim Bob, just wanna be sure you said the following...

Chinese Democracy (the song) > Paradise City, Nighttrain, WTTJ, SCOM, Rocket Queen, Its So Easy, and Mr. Brownstone

Jim Bob, that is what you are saying isn't it?

I do not agree. ?

Chinese Democracy (the song) > My World, Shotgun Blues, You're Crazy (Appetite Version), Reckless Life

I respect your opinion, I dig the tune too. ?That said, do you actually think We'll be hearing that tune being played with the same frequency 20 years from now as WTTJ, SCOM and PC are played with today?


I agree, the bar was set to unreachable heights from the get go.

Some need to realize as you said above, those heights will never be reached again.

No matter who's in the band.

A Rod Jackson led Snakepit sure as hell didn't, and not because Duff wasn't in the band.

True, but if it were the original band, they would be more like the Rolling Stones in popularity and U2.

I think people lose that perspective sometimes.

That is just not true.

More records? As in more records sold?

STP

Core- 8 Million
Purple- 6 Million
Tiny Music- 2 Million
No4- 1 Million
SLDD- .5 million
Best of- NA

17.5 Million

GN'R

AFD- 15 Million
LIES- 5 Million
UYI 1- 7 Million
UYI 2- 7 Million
TSI?- 1 Million
Live- .5 Million
GH- 3 Million

38.5 Million

More hits?

No again. Funny how STP's GH sold nothing yet GN'R's greatest hits sold 3 million copies.

More formats playing STP than GN'R.

Nope. ?GN'R gets spins on classic and modern rock stations. STP gets played too, but I'll tell you, at least in Boston GN'R gets way more aireplay than STP.

Do you have any figures to back up any of your claims?

You have been served....

Exactly.

A legacy to bulid on, not one to be held in comparsion to.

People always thought they were going to be the next Rolling Stones, they had that same charisma and timeless sound. Too bad pride got in the way.

I said high profile singer.

If Gavin Rosedale, Jon Davis, Kid Rock, etc, had been the singer in VR it would have sold well.

Yep, that is right. ?It would have been so nice, but I guess since they were so crazy it was just never meant to be. ?Sometimes I wish I could go back to 1995 as a fortune teller and work Axl and Slash's shit out. ?Oh well. ?Reminds me of that song Darkside from that movie with tom berenger in it. ?I forget the name of the band. ?Johnny and the somethings.

No, of original music.


More singles that receive regular airplay I'd suspect.



Easy, STP is a staple of classic and modern rock stations nationwide. ?Tons of tunes on each.

GNR is obviously huge on classic stations, but still don't get near the run on modern rock formatted stations. An occassional spin of WTTJ, PC or SCOM on a "Flashback lunch" just doesn't match up to the catalog STP boasts geared towards that audience.


I stand by my original post.

I still don't get why GNR doesn't get play on modern rock stations much.  yet, they play old Metallica and old RHCP.  You are right Richard, I heard the Radio edit of SCOM.  The left out most of the effing solo and cut to vox quickly in the beginning.  Such bullshit.  and now they play Interstate Love Song on the Classic rock stations.  Such bullshit.  Hmm.

Falcon, I think you would be right about STP getting more spins on the radio if it were ten years ago. As of 2007, however, STP are not a modern, contemporary band. STP are just as much of a nostalgia act as GN'R are at this point. And even more so, as they don't have the loyal following of GN'R. Kids today are not discovering Core and Purple the way kids today are discovering GN'R via the Greatest Hits and AFD.

As for original material, STP has five albums and GN'R has four. GN'R has far outsold STP in the States as the numbers I listed will indicate (from Wikipedia).

As for more hits, look at the track-listing of GN'R's GH and then look at the same list for STP's GH. So both bands have a lot of hits. But I will tell you that at least in Boston, I tend to hear GN'R more than STP, and not just during the "retro-lunch hour."

I like Stone Temple Pilots a lot, they are one of my favorite bands in fact. I saw them in 2002 and I think they are great. So I don't mean any of this as a diss and I don't mean to discredit them or say they suck or whatever. That said, there is no way that STP are more relevant/popular, etc. than GN'R. That is just not the case.

The same shit again... Where is the ignore function? It's your opinion, right? And you're not bashing Slash, and his fans, right?  ::)   Grow up.

STP's last album, which Weiland sang on, bombed.

Yep, it tanked.  No doubt about it.

The other 5 he did with STP did fairly well, wouldn't you agree?

His ability validated and status solidified I'd suppose?


 

Possibly, but I wouldnt be so sure of that.

He made four other albums, five total.

Weiland is a rock-star and his status is "solidified." He's sang on some of the best rock albums of the last twenty years, I wont refute that. My point all along has been that STP are not more relavant/popular/iconic today than GN'R.

I know. But you have to understand that we are not currently a week after the GNR rupture. It's been 12/13 years since the peak in the GNR popularity. In these 12 years, Slash didn't do anything to try to keep himself in that ''icon'' position. Instead of that, he played in almost anonymous bands, made special collaborations with Marta Sanchez, Paulina Rubio, Cypress Hill and made a ''supergroup'' that is having a slightly more repercussion than Snakepit (a cult band, known only by hardcore GNR fans). What I want to say is that Slash is currently not the 1% of the rock icon, not the 1% as popular as he was in 1993. And being involved with Velvet Revolver, to my eyes, is not helping...

In the other hand we have Axl Rose. His myth is growing with the pass of the years, even when I admit that not because of musical reasons. He, at least, was able to keep his ''icon'' position safe. He didn't ruin his own reputation playing with nobodies like, to my eyes, Slash did. And now he has very big chances of recovering all what he could have lost in all these years, because he's still in one of the best rock bands in history, sounding better than ever, and with the ambition of giving the fans an evolved musical direction, without damaging the GN'R legacy.

Chinese Democracy has not too much chances of selling 15.0 million copies like AFD did, but there are SEVERAL reasons for this, where the musical one is just ONE posibility. The world is not ruled anymore by hard rock music, Axl has 44 years and internet exists. Do not rule out the posibility of Chinese Democracy being as killer as Appetite. Even if it is better, it wont sell the number of copies AFD has sold, and that has nothing to do with the hypothetical quality of the album.

But now the band is back in a great form, and if there was one guitarist in the rock environment to replace Slash, in my opinion, that was Robin. And again, if there is one band in the world capable of bringing back the rock status to a higher level, that is Guns N' Roses, because Guns N' Roses, with all the new music we could heard, is showing that is able to rock hardly without sounding old-fashioned. And the main man, the new man where all the people will focus on is Robin. In 6 months (or a year, whatever) the world will know who is the GNR guitarist. The world will know that Guns N' Roses is alive, rocking, in a great form, and Slash is not there. People will say: ''hey, Guns N' Roses can rock without Slash'' and will have VR to contrast and make conclussions, like lots of us did a long time ago.


You need to realise that Appetite For Destruction is an album from the same band that the one that is gonna release Chinese Democracy: Guns N' Roses. Why do you need so desperately to make some kind of ''competition'' between two albums from the same band? Maybe because you think that GNR died with Slash departure, and you consider Chinese Democracy an album from whatever band but NOT Guns N' Roses. In that case, the comparison would be reasonable.

I think that CD will be huge. I dont really care if it sells more than AFD. I'm also proud of AFD, because its an album made by my favourite band. Simple


Proposing a comparison about a disc released in the 1987 rock music context and another in 200X is not objective neither. Making some kind of competition between two albums of the same band, like a death or life subject neither. Paul McCartney's albums are as good currently [quality] as in 1990. But no one seems to give a shit about that kind of music today. That makes his latest albums worse?

thats not what i said, i said head and shoulders next to any song on AFD.   So it would be closer to this

Chinese Democracy (the song) == Paradise City, Nighttrain, WTTJ, SCOM, Rocket Queen, Its So Easy, and Mr. Brownstone.   


a better way to put it, if i ranked all the songs on AFD from favorite to least favorite and threw CD in there, CD wuld probably be 3rd or 4th on the list.

Contraband sold 2 million copies in the US alone, a third of each UYI disc. I'd say he's doing okay for himself.
You are thinking of someone like David Lee Roth or Vince Neil.

Im not a NIN efficianado I will admit but doesnt Trent Reznor write and play everything and he then has a touring band to bring his creation to life?

If that is true, wasnt Robin basically  just a cover guitarist in NIN also?

pretty much .

Robin plays on a handful of remix tracks, and the live album/dvd.

Nine Inch Nails is a ''band'', like we all know the word band, only live. Trent basically does everything on his own at the studio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Inch_Nails:_Live

If you want to call Robin a cover guitarist, feel free to do it, but I dont really know what that has to with with this topic.

what does whether or not a person wrote something have anything to do with their ability to play it exceptionally well in concert?    Thats why I can appreciate Robin's take on some of the old GnR songs more than the original, because I dont givea fuck if he wrote them or not.  I think some of the songs sound better played by him. 

When I'm at a rock show, I dont sit there and analyze the guys on stage based on whether or not they wrote the stuff.    Thats silly to me.  Its either an enjoyable performance or it isn't.

^
Cause u are trying to compare Finck to a Guitar Icon and Finck hasnt wrote ANYTHING EVER thats been any kind of hit or has had any? kind of impact.



So how can u compare someone who has wrote nothing to a guy who has some of the greatest riffs and solos in Rock N Roll history? Its just not cool to me.

I'm not trying to compare anybody.  You are the one who brought Robin into the discussion dude.  damn.


And to all of you who are trying to discredit Robin as a songwriter, if he was a shit songwriter and didn't have any creativity

A. Better would have never been written
B. He wouldnt' be in Guns N' Roses for almost a decade
C. Axl wouldn't have brought him back into the band after he left it back in 1999.

I don't think anybody is say robin can't write just that dude hasn't proven that he can yet.

I'm sure that may/will change if the album ever comes out.

Robin has nothing to do in this thread,  :no:
We're not supposed to be discussing about  Robin's ability to write songs/play Slash's riffs here.

Yeah, this thread is about ear candy guitar playing. Finck has nothing to do with that.

Ron Thal           = Brilliant Lead Guitarist.
Richard Fortus  = Rhythm Guitarist.
Robin Finck       = Um, Third Wheel?

Ha, just kidding. I'll give Robin the benefit of the doubt for 'Better' and 'The Blues', but comparing Slash to a cover guitarist is well, retarted.

Maybe Chinese Democracy has taken so long due to the lack of material? Maybe he quit in 99 cause he couldn't please Axl?

I just dont like his tone or style of play.


Better is a good song but I dont think its gonna be a song that is remembered 10 years from now. I hope I am wrong but most of the great songs I have heard are the ones where the guitar doesn't play much of a part.


Like Madagascar has quotes where normally u would get a blazing amazing Slash guitar solo.

Compare The Blues solo to SCOM,NR or Estranged's guitar parts and u will see what im saying.


Sure the solos and stuff are good, they dont suck by any means but they arent on that legendary amazing level or anywhere close.

Let me get this straight, you say Slash has lost that ''icon position", but Axl hasn't?

You're dead-set fucking delusional.

This decade long Chinse Democracy farce has turned Axl into a punchline in the music industry. He was part of the band that released an all-time great rock album (AFD) so he'll always be a rock god to a lot of people (including myself) but it is idiotic to suggest his reputation hasn't taken a severe beating over the last ten years.

And yet Slash, still looking as iconic as ever, still releasing new music, and part of one the best and biggest modern-day rock bands in the world, is the one that lost it?

Whatever gets you through the night, champ...

Nice low blow.  I suppose you think the world of Dave Kushner :smoking:

Kushner is a rhythm guitarist. He doesn't pretend to be anything else. :smoking:

I didn't know playing rhythm guitar meant you had to be bland and anonymous both in the studio and on stage

Better than playing lead guitar and being bland and anonymous, don't you think?

you fucking slash fans make me laugh.  all you can do is bash robin to get your point across.    If you dont like the guys in the band now, why dont you just go to a fucking velvet revolver forum ?

here you go, i'll make it easy
http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com

clearly you never saw GnR live then in 2006.  Did you even bother reading any of the reviews?  Robin got the best reviews out of all the guitarists there.  Go look em up.

how about actually talking about Slash and waht he said about the latest album.

I was speaking about Robin as compared to Slash. But you're right. We shouldn't be talking about Robin. Now back on topic.

who the fuck cares about robin compared to Slash.  One of the guys is in GnR, the other left it.   Robin more than fills the spot he is in so you are right, back to the topic.

Yeah, and this is the VR section and you've been talking about your hero for pages. It doesn't matter here that Finck is playing for NIN or GN'R or Tapeworm right now. He's never been in VR, so even mentioning his name is offtopic here.

tell that to your fellow slash worshipper D.

maybe you slash worshippers need to find a better way to defend slash than bringing up guys in Guns N' Roses.

You don't seem to understand that there's no need to defend Slash at all. His works over the years speak for themselves.

Certain facts about some members of the current lineup seem to get some GN'R fans in a tizzy, especially since most of the time they prove their points by referring to a dubious work, which is yet to be released and may or may not exist as far as anybody knows.

Blind impractical enthusiasm is exhilarating isn't it?

I have the sensation that the majority of the VR fans are more focused in their shared resentment against the new guys in Guns N' Roses than in the band they supposedly worship. Now that I think it carefully, it does has sense...


You cant say whatever you want. But Robin is in the place that almost every guitarist in the world (including Slash) dreams to be. Bringing up Robin to this discussion only shows how resentful you are, and your total lack of true arguments to ''defend'' Slash.

I was in here to read about what Slash had to say and kind of got involved in this GnR vs VR conversation, which started after estebanf was attacked for making a comment to the tune of "if Let It Roll's the most aggressive song, then Libertad must be a pretty soft album" or whatever.  Then the inevitable GnR comparisons started flying.  Point is if anyone says ANYTHING less than 100% complimentary to VR on these boards then someone comes in and starts talking shit about Axl or Robin or whoever.  So uh, maybe if people don't want to talk GnR here they shouldn't bring up GnR in every argument that arises here

Anyway, I haven't heard these new VR songs except crappy live clips which I refuse to judge them on.  I'm sure Libertad will be a quality album, these guys have put a lot of time into recording it.  And I think that the chemistry between band members and lead singer will be improved, leading to a more unique sound than the last one.  If Slash indeed is bringing the blues out in full force here then everyone should be happy.  I mean wasn't that the main knock on Contraband?  Too generic, not enough trademark Slash riffs and solos?  Don't get me wrong it's a good album but I think this one will be better

Wrong. He brought up GN'R himself by comparing the song with The Blues on CD. Read the thread properly.

Booker said nobody cared for his opinion, nothing to do with GN'R.

You guys start the trouble and then blame somebody else. Typical.

Uh re-read what I said.  Estenbanf made a comment, and because it was less than 100% complimentary to VR someone took offense to it and insulted him.  Then it devolved into another VR vs GnR debate.  I never mentioned who brought up Guns first.  But the argument was set off by someone insulting estebanf by saying his opinion wasn't valid, and mentioning his signature.  Apparently having a signature saying that Robin Finck's the lead guitarist for GnR is an insult to Velvet Revolver

Apparently you dont know what youre talking about.

He changed his signature after the post I made. 

Oh yeah, that's the real problem. estebanf's opinions about VR are well known here on the site. Booker asked him if he didn't like VR, why he posted in this section at all. Hardly an insult. I'd like to see somebody insult Axl in the GN'R section and get away with it. So, you have no argument at all.

If this is about who brings GN'R into VR topics, you can point the finger at estebanf and co.

Last I checked we WERE IN A VELVET REVOLVER FORUM.

Check the section Jim Bob, If u don't like the Slash talk, maybe u should stick to the GNR section? : ok:

You mean spending 75% of every concert covering another guitarists material? No, I don't think that is the case with any guitarist with a high degree of artistic integrity. You would never see a Slash, Jimmy Page, Brian May, Joe Parry or any other rock legend join a band to put himself in that situation. They preferred creating legendary stuff as opposed to playing somebody elses in order to achieve their fame.

^
OUCH


True but OUCH! :hihi:

Fair enough, I didn't realize he had a different sig.  What did it used to say?

Thats JUST because CD is not released yet. Period.

mmmhh about Slash... I saw him live a month ago and he did a setlist composed 50% by covers. None of the other 50% was ''legendary stuff'' unless you think ''Do It For The Kids'' or ''Let It Roll'' is that kind of stuff.

Guess what were the songs where the crowd got more excited  :hihi:

A hint: the peak in the crowd excitement was provoked by 30 years old song composed by Roger Waters (lyrics) and David Gilmour (guitars)  ::)

Is he an official member of Pink Floyd playing 75% of David Gilmour's stuff every night? I must have missed that memo.

Maybe you'd like to discuss my signature in this thread too.

Or maybe somebody else's signature.

 :rofl:


He made a comment and instead of replying to it you just say "well, I can see your signature so your opinion isn't valid"?

I can tell you right now that my opinion on the new VR album will be labeled as not valid because I think Scott is a poser.

Your and Mikkamakka's opinions on the other hand will be labeled as "objective and fair". Even though you two have proven yourselves to be huge VR (and Slash) fans.

Yet you act like you're objective. You're just as biased as everybody else.




/jarmo

unfortunately, no.

Instead, he's doing that in Velvet Revolver

Every replacement has to do what Robin is doing at first. Brian Johnson did that, Paul Rodgers and Robert Trujillo are doing that right now. At least, they entertain the masses with their own songs... (''One'' is a Metallica song. Same for ''We Will Rock You'', for Queen. Guns N' Roses plays Guns N' Roses song except for 2 historic covers like LALD and KOHD...)

PS: about my signature, I realised it could have been offensive to VR fans and I inmediatly modified it. I didnt need any warnings of mods or Jarmo. I modified it because I wanted to do it. But using my signature as some kind of argument to reply to my [inofensive] comment about ''Let It Roll'' was ridiculous

Yeah, Live and Let Die & KOHD are Axl's songs  :no:

Every band plays covers. As a musician the difference is when you join an established band to replace and assume someone's role playing predominantly material that is not yours.

Something retarded like "Axl rose is guns n'roses, for proof buy Contraband"....

 : ok:

By the way, two covers in a 2:20 set is NOTHING.
6 covers in a 12/13 song set is a shameless ripoff

Guns N' Roses songs written by diffrent people than the current Guns N' Roses. Some would call that a "shameless ripoff" too.. I'm not one of those, though. GN'R does very good cover versions of the songs they've played on the last two tours ;) I haven't attended a VR concert but I beleive that they do also good covers of the songs they cover. Btw, in which concert of 12-13 songs have they played 6 covers?

Stop the fuckin' hijack and please do something with this guy, estebanf. Go to the Nu-GN'R section and express your love there - but it seems you are more interested in talking shit.

in this following among others..

There is no "nu-GN'R" section just like there's no "people who were fired/quit and joined forces with a fraud poser" section.



/jarmo

Guess you're having joy when your minions ruin every VR thread, aren't you? Otherwise you would have deleted their useless and offtopic posts. Wait, some of these were made by you. How cool to be an admin  : ok:

Exactly in the only one I attended, at the River Plate Stadium, last 15th of april.

ISE (GN'R) / Crackerman (STP) / Sex Type Thing (STP)/ Brownstone (GNR) / Roadhouse Blues (The Doors)/ Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd)  : ok:


Sorry man, sorry for pointing something we all know but you dont like to read.

At least I'm not degrading the Guns N' Roses name (or any other band name)  with that ''Nu'' prefix.

Two things -

Covers:  6 is way too many for a band that has a 20 + song catalog.

The "fraud" tag - I've never really understood that accusation.  Can someone/anyone explain his/her thoughts on why Weiland should be labeled a "fraud"?

He tries to be something he's not.




#1 - I have no minions.
#2 - If you insult GN'R on a GN'R board, be ready for stand up for what you did. "Nu-GN'R" my ass.
#3 - As far as I can tell, you like to blame others for the fact that you VR fans justify their so called greatness basically on the fact that they release albums.
#4 - I hardly ever moderate this section. If I did, a lot of bullshit would be removed. Bullshit that you enjoy talking about so it sounds like it's a bad idea.




/jarmo

Anything specific?

yeah if only he would get some cornrowed hair.

Scott is a lead singer.Lead singers  are supposed to say and do crazy shit. course I haven't seen scott bite some guy on the leg and get arrested for it yet. but give him some more time.

Besides of what Jarmo said (which I fully agree, I dont care if Im labeled as ''minion''), I will just quote what Slash (allegedly) said:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=27580.msg501618#msg501618

VELVET REVOLVER/ex-STONE TEMPLE PILOTS frontman Scott Weiland has slammed GUNS N' ROSES singer Axl Rose for his comments in a recent press release where he claimed that in October of 2005, VELVET REVOLVER/ex-GUNS N' ROSES guitarist Slash visited Axl's house at 5:30 one morning and said he wanted to "end the war" with Rose. Rose alleged that Slash tore into his current bandmates in VELVET REVOLVER, calling singer Weiland a "fraud," saying that he "hates" drummer Matt Sorum and describing bassist Duff McKagan as "spineless."

I will use the word ''allegedly'' to avoid further discussions. But I've never seen Slash (or his lawyers/manager/spokesman) making some kind of press release or something formal saying that this is bullshit. He only mentioned this in an [I dont remember what] almost anonymous radio.

I think you need to replace "apparently" with "allegedly".

Thanks for the tip, i thought they were synonimous.
By the way, I have a very important english test next wednesday at University, and my learning method is posting in this forum  ;D ;D Wish me luck  ;D

Nope, they're quiet different in meaning.

c'mon Esteban, how many times have we discussed about this?
I put an interview of camp freddy radio, in that program Slash was the guest and you know very well that he talked about that witt Matt and Duff and he dennied everything!!!

look for some more arguments dude!

Who are you to tell someone they're using the wrong word? ::)?

 ;)

That means nothing to me. If Axl was lying, Slash (trained on this subject) would have sued Axl, or he would have done a more serious reply than a verbal one in a radio that only you and a bunch of hardcore VR fans can know...

And Weiland's reply said it all... ::)

You're quite right.  LOL!!

Sued him for what, slander? That wouldn't have went anywhere in court because Slash didn't suffer any damages to compensate for. No one believed Axl anyway.

Why does'nt that surprise us?

Keep looking through those "Rose" colored glasses, keep looking....

dont forget that they have to bash Axl Rose or Robin Finck too to justify VR's greatness.  even if neither guy has ANYTHING to do with the disucssion at hand.

Or how about VR fans that actually like and support VR and GN'R?

Yes, as hard as it may seem to believe, it is possible to like both bands. : ok:

Jim, you've been around here for a while now.? You know as well as I do there's plenty of the same going on in the other direction.? There's a bazillion posts throughout this forum denegrating the x members in order to elevate the perception of Axl and company as well.

Agreed?

It seems that with Dave Kushner Slash might be trying to extend the guitar diversity in this album, maybe Dave gets to do some soloing, cause since Appetite for destruction I don't remember any other solo from Izzy in the UYI or Lies...

Of course Izzy was clearly a rhythm player, but those two solos Nightrain and Think about you sound rather good.

Anyway, I hope the Slash's solos in this record will be killer!!!!     :beer: :drool:

Finally, a reply with something positive to add to the original topic! : ok:

I too look forward to hearing what Dave & Slash have come up with for the new album! :beer:


Edit: Doesn't Izzy play the solo in Double Talkin' Jive?

Yeah I've noticed that a common kneejerk reaction any time someone in here questions VR is to bash the current lineup of GnR.  And another common kneejerk reaction is to say that anyone who feels that Slash's work post-GnR hasn't been able to hold a candle his work in the band is somehow disrespecting his legacy

But there's no better way to skirt around the issue at hand than changing the subject.  I can say without hesitation that Axl's lyrics and vocal melodies on his new work are just as good as they've ever been.  I don't think anyone can honestly say that Slash's guitar riffs have been as consistent and strong as they were when he was working with Izzy and Axl.  But if I say that, to some of these guys it's like saying that I don't Slash is a great guitarist.  I think he's a great guitarist who has underachieved since leaving GnR

Then there is camp C that doesn't think either one of them has made anything in the past 15 years that is anywhere near Guns greatest songs. Nothing Slash has been a part of or Axl has written will have anyone forgetting Jungle, SCOM, PC or NR anytime soon. Their stuff might be good when compared to contemporary stuff, but when you were part of the greatest Rock N' Roll album possibly ever writte, just being the best of the mediocre isn't good enough.

Both sides of the who was right about Guns debate have essentially been right, because Slash hasn't outdone himself since he left the band, and Axl has been inept since everyone left him. Instead of cheering which side is less mediocre we should be marveling at how petty Axl/Slash are that they would rather be a part of second rate projects than together because they can't admit that neither has been the same or reached that level that had people once saying they could have been the next Stones without the other.

No, that's Slash.

That's strange because it's credited to Izzy in the booklet.

Those songs are not covers. They might not be VR songs, but those songs belong to Slash and Duff as much as they belong to Axl.  I suppose then 95% of the current GN'R lineup's songs are covers too. The only original songs they play are those from the rumored CD.

And no, don't tell me it's not, because they still have the name GN'R. ANYTHING from GN'R's catalog is a cover song for everybody in the band now, except Axl.

Izzy wrote the song, not the solos.

But some booklets have misinformation about Izzy's playing the solos. Appearantly, my booklet (or: booklets, since I have two UYI Is) says it's Slash.

Back to the topic: Slash's guitar work after GN'R was at least as good as it was in GN'R. Neither Can I, Shine, Serial Killer, Back and Forth Again, YGNR, Slither etc. could have been huge hits with Axl singin'. But having another singers just don't make the guitar work worse. He had the chance to evolve, and unlike in the GN'R days, where the chord progression was really simple in most of the cases, he achieve really great on the Snakepit albums. Those are ear candy for guitar lovers - not ear candy for tone deafs though. Go listen to the Snakepit albums and try to forget that Axl is not there and take attention to the music. It's a killer. If Libertad will be as good musically as the first Snakepit was, I will even by a VR T-shirt, although I haven't bought band T-shirts for nearly a decade.

I know that but in the booklet I have it says Lead Guitar: Izzy

Now that would lead me to believe he played the solo wouldn't it? ::)


But maybe like Mikkamakka said, it's a misprint?

Because Axl did. Or was it his brain-dead housekeeper?

Ever since his little fanboys have started using it.  :hihi:

I dont bash Finck, I just call it like it is. U show me one thing I have posted that isnt true. He played Trent's material in NIN and for the most part he plays Slash's material in GNR.

Fans like u Jim Bob is why I constantly seem to bash the new band cause its fans like u who make it your mission to act like the old band members are disposable and replaceable which they are not.


Sure Axl can make great records without them, but even if he makes 20 AFD's on his own, it still will never take away what the old band contributed no matter how bad that hurts you.


If I heard Finck play guitar before he joined GNR I wouldnt like him and I dont think he is the right guitarist for Guns N Roses. He'd be perfect for a new band today or a band from the mid 90's but he just can't fill the shoes of an ICON just by association. He has to prove it and so far he hasn't to me.

I just hate Fans who give certain Status to guys who havent earned it just cause they are with Axl and record under the GNR name. It takes a hell of a lot more than that.

dont worry D, i hate you too.  but not because you prefer Slash its because you can't accept people who have a different opinion than you.

but you still haven't explained why you brought Robin into this in the first place.  You are just babbling on about why you dont like Robin in the VR section for what reason?

Could be a misprint. But just listen to the end solo, typical Slash. Also, he plays it live.

I didnt bring Finck into this, Someone else did.

I think what started it was u sayin u liked Robin's SCOM better and it went from there.

 :o :o :o :o :o

Man, I dont want to force your neurons too much, but... errr... Mr Brownstone and Its So Easy appear in the booklet that came with my Appetite For Destruction CD... and that CD (the vynil too, but as I said, do not demand your brain an effort it's unable to make) is labeled as... errr.... Guns N' Roses!

If Im not wrong, Slash, the liar, the two former GNR members and (let me think)... Dave Kushner are in a TOTAL different band, with a slightly different name: Velvet Revolver!

Velvet Revolver playing Guns N' Roses songs: COVER. It would still be a cover in USA, in Argentina (my country) and in Malaysia.

Damn man, your last post seemed to have been written by whiny baby girl...  ::)

Your arguments are so predictable, estebanf. I knew you'd use the "they're Guns N' Roses" argument which is why I said in the original post:


Learn to read the whole post, lest your reply makes you look retarded.

So 3/5ths of a band playing a song is a cover but 1/5th of a band playing it isnt?

Thats how most peoples math around here seem to work D .

What do you want me to say? You are saying that Weiland's band playing Guns N' Roses songs are not covers...

Who's the retarded? Think it. Who's the retarded? What argument do you expect me to use?

If I ask you if ''Like A Rolling Stone'', being performed at a Rolling Stones concert, is a cover, the ONLY valid answer is, at the same time, predictable: YES. No other reply could be valid, that turns the answer to the question predictable.

I will say it clearer: Mr Brownstone and Its So Easy ARE NOT Velvet Revolver songs. That is enough to call them covers.

damn... it would be easier to explain a trained ape what a cover is...

So if Jimmy Page and Robert  Plant perform Stairway to Heaven with 2 new musicians under a different name it would be a cover?



Axl technically is covering ISE cause he didnt write it. Just cause Slash is no longer in the band doesnt mean those riffs and solos cease to be his.

I didn't say you were retarded. I said not reading my entire post and replying to half of it makes you look retarded.


Do me a favor and stop quoting me. It's pointless arguing with you.


I think you should do that. Maybe it will understand you better. : ok:

I almost forgot...Any luck coming across that post describing "Let It Roll" as "horrible?"

You can say whatever the fuck you want, but you are not going to convert It's So Easy and Mr Brownstone into VR songs.

Those are Guns N' Roses songs. Period. Any other band playing them > Covers.

Using your logic, when Suki Jones performed:

01. Welcome To The Jungle
02. It's So Easy
03. Nightrain
04. Mr. Brownstone
09. My Michelle
10. Rocket Queen
11. Paradise City

...they were performing their own songs?  :hihi:


Sure:
http://www.uzisuicide.com.ar/foros/index.php?topic=13959.0  : ok:

50% of the users at that message board attended the VR show at the Quilmes Rock Festival and have a better idea of how that song sounds live than most of american VR fans : ok:

Its So Easy is a Guns N' Roses song.   Not a VR song.

This has to be said:

At least SLash and Duff didnt have to hold on to a legendary name to be successful.

They started a band from Scratch and have shown Axl that they dont need him to be successful. U have to give them respect for that.

Everything is not Black and White. Slash / Duff playing GN'R songs is not the same as say, them playing a Pink Floyd number.

So would you like to keep searching or just admit you were lying?

I think Let It Roll is a killer song .

Read again. This time, carefully.

I've never read (*) any reviews in ''this forum'' saying that Let it Roll is a killer song [period]

I saw multiple opinions [I have not specified where, in fact, I post and read lots of forums in different languages] ranging from good.............

Try again dude. If you need more coins give me a shout  : ok:

(*) Until Timothy's post

I still Let It Roll kicks ass, and that's good enough for me! : ok:

More word technicalities...

So you distinctly say "in this forum," but the connecting thought that follows suddenly applys to all forums, even though theres nothing to imply it?  It sounds like youre grasping for straws here.

As for your original statement, heres the first post of the "Let It Roll" thread:


The next post is yours:


So I think its safe to assume you read it.  Whats the technicality this time?  He said he "loves it," "it rocks like a motherfucker," and "its a great song," but not "killer?"  :hihi:

bahh, I will never defeat the reincarnation of Inspector Gadget... I give up...

''GREAT SONG'' IS EQUAL TO ''KILLER''; SO I HAVE LIED

''ITS SO EASY IS A VELVET REVOLVER SONG''

''LET IT ROLL IS KILLER''

/estebanf

This looks like an appropriate response.  : ok:

well its so easy was written by duff and wes arkeen so i think duff can still play that song in his new band if he wrote the majority of it

A few random thoughts:

Jarmo's hardly the first person to label Weiland a fraud. In fact, it's a criticism that's followed him for the last 15 years.

I wouldn't even begin to know where to find a link (so don't bother constantly asking for one), but I remember a 2006 interview with Slash in which he was asked about the possibility of a Guns N' Roses reunion. His reply was something along the lines of "Well, I hadn't talked to Axl in 10 years at one point", with "at one point" being the key phrase. I couldn't help but think back to Axl's press release when I read that.

As for the new album being "ear candy for the guitar aficionado", presuming that's not just hyperbole, I think it's a great direction for the band to head into. Considering their original selling point (more "Guns N' Roses" than Guns N' Roses!) and the current musical landscape ('80s hard rock is very retro chic right now), it only makes sense. I can't imagine well-marketed album built around scorching Slash solos *not* finding a sizable audience.

The lead guitarist in his own band allegedly feels the same way  :hihi:

I heard Axls assistant recently commented on this.  Do you know anything about it?