Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Starting to think that there is going to be a quick release.
Bands been quiet, normally happens when shit is happening behind the scenes.
Heared the rumour about the Brain leaving as he was told about a 2008 release, I dont buy that shit for one minute .The tommy stuff on the other hand seems more of a white lie to delay...its all the behind the scenes shit...
Soon IMO..soon... brothers and sisters.

walmart alone requires more time to stock shelves like ( 2 months)....so soon is not the word

Imagine your telling Axl that.

Sorry.. I mean... Imagine Axl gives a fuck.

Dude.. Walmart might be?an?american institution.. but its still a very small percentage of the music world.
I for one do not? shop at ASDA.

LOL.. how selfrightious do  I seem replying 3 times to my own post... fuckit.

I am saying I have seen their order lists for music , and gnr is not on there... so to all those people who want a album, out before australia ....forgetboutit

WalMart is the biggest Retail company in the world...with stores on every major continent....with  a band lke Gnr ,m they would recieve stocking information.

I agree...
But..

IMO.. Mr Rose has had this idea...hes had a personal vision for a while.
I think he wants to blow shit up (not literally!!)... Im 31 dude Ive loved GnR since I was  13 and I think at  least a  little bit I understand axl and the ego that goes with being such a success full rock star. Axl will wait and time it right.. he will ?make shit happen when he wants to. Hes studied CM ffs he knows about people and crowd control.. just llike JM.. there does however have to be a commercial compromise... SEPT 11th for me, US.. 10th Europe.

dude the band has been more quiet before and not a damn thing happened.

So far it seem soon isn't the word.

I have never seen a Walmart in Australia....
We not major enough? You know be the largest island on this planet and all.....

To be fair they probably own a shit load of Aussie companies.
I will admit..some americans dont understand the outside world but  tbh.. walmart are pretty fuckin big.

Be think full you don't have a wal-mart.. : ok:

Yeah.. be thinkfull motherfucker!  ;)

Who the fuck shops at wally world?! They only sell censored music!!!

D ...dude bought a NIN's album from them. :hihi:

I bought a wu tang clan cd their once. :rant: :rant: :-[
Never buy music from wally world...

Just for the record, Wal*Mart is estimated to have roughly 25% of the American music buying market.

which explains why mostly crap is selling now a days....

Well, I aggree to an extent.  If people don't like what they buy at WalMart, it's not like they can't go elsewhere to find their music.  Especially now in the digital age.

I agree with that . But the fact that they are going to wal mart to buy music also is why most of the shit that sells is nothing but crap.

plus todays youth just has bad taste in music for the most part.

name one band that has came out with a descent album besides " Hell yeah "

No argument here.





Although, I do enjoy laughing at Fergie.

CLutch and NIN

It didn't take us long to go from a tentative release date back to soon.  :nervous:

Besides, what does soon mean anyway? Certainly not April or May if that's what you're thinking.

It was just announced this week that Walmart is the biggest company in the world in terms of revenue (oil companies taking 3 out of the top 5).

You don't release something like an album unless you have support of major retail chains and distributors.  Just look at Scissor Sisters.  They made some disparaging remarks about retail outlets and distribution in the states and their latest cd was boycotted by some major retailers and a large distributor.  As a result, their album debuted in the 30s, where everywhere else in the world it was a top five album. 

Axl can say fuck Walmart, but ultimately, he'd only fuck himself in terms of cd sales...

But on topic, hearing nothing means exactly that, nothing.  This album is going to come out when it comes out (unfortunately).  Not much any of us can do.  Trying to find logic and deduce theories about the album's release based on the activity or lack thereof is a waste of time.

Cheers,

Andrew

where the fuck did you hear that?

My Wal-Mart has a gas station... So they must contribute to sunoco, if they're in the top 5 ?:hihi:

It's unlikely that Axl Rose has a say in which stores stock his album. Unless this is the cleanest GNR album ever then we can predict that an edited version would be made available to Walmart. And I'm sure that as part of Walmart's overall agreement with distributors they'd pretty much have to take delivery of GNR's album whenever it shipped, regardless of how long it takes the martmonkeys to clear shelf space.This kind of business isn't conducted on a case-by-case basis, no-one is calling up Walmart HQ to find out if it's okay to release x album  at x time to fit the store's schedule.

 :hihi: :rofl: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :hihi: :hihi:

Soon on  Axl is at least 2015

I already have my copy and it is awesome....chumps.

You went and bought that Fiona Apple Cd it was hidden in didn't you?......SON OF A B :rant:

rotfl :rofl:

Ehr...yeah.  No Walmart stores in Rome (and I think also in Italy) -- how about that?

Jarmo where do you find these idiots? :o

wal- Mart

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w273/timothywilcox/walmart.jpg)

hahahaha, yea.

Feel the love bitches.

releasing a major album like this "quickly" without the proper promotion scheme would be pure insanity from the point of view of the record company, so you wont see it happen. I'm sorry to break it to you.

Look to the way any major record release starts its promotion cycle. Im talking about bands/artists that have potential to sell 10+ million. There is a definate pattern there to be seen. It is plausible to think that GNR is still considered as such an asset to its company.

dont be naive, and:

"All we need is just a little patience" : ok:

Axl didn't release it "quick" in 2006, because he WANTS THE PROPER PROMOTION STRATEGY.  Just read the last letter he issued about the album, and you'll realize that soon ISN'T the word.  I'm thinking Nov. 2007 sounds reasonable.

NO!!! NOT AGAIN!!!

No-one knows whats going on, last thing we heard is that the mixing was underway in February. I can't see the mixing taking months and months, especially if the band aren't there (i.e. on tour as they will be very soon).

Personally I think its going to be down to the record company when they decide the best window is to release it. Hopefully that will be *soon*.

For the first time ever (yes i know, i must be very niave!) since 1999 or so I am really

doubting that this album will ever appear.

The silence from the band is deafening..................................

what are us fans supposed to think?

I'd say its hardly deafening (its been far worse), we had an update in December with the first tentative date and then an update saying that all recording had been finished and the album was being mixed in February. Also, they are starting another leg of the world tour at the end of this month.

If the tour starts up again and its the same setlist and still no updates or word of the album release then I might get a bit concerned.

True, but why hasn't the promotion started yet if the promotion has to take that long?
The real promotion for the Greatest Hits album started when the album was already in stores. And that cd did pretty well. You don't need to promote by forehand. When you hear the album is out now, you want to buy it now. When you hear it will be released in 4 weeks, you might forget about it.
Best thing to do right now (if the album isn't ready) is to release one or two singles (like they did with the UYI albums) to get some attention. I'm sure they've got a few songs that are finished by now. No more false starts like the Harley Davidson commercial, or yet another Chinese Democracy Tour without an album or a song on a soundtrack or video game...

I would think the album will be preceeded by at least a few weeks by a single, this should make mainstream people aware that GnR are finally back before the album is released.

As theres no single I think we're at minimum a couple of months away from release. Maybe they are going to try and go head to head with VR's July release.

It's obvious the band chose to use this next leg or two to tap an unsaturated market with the same tour that virtually the rest of the world has seen already. Once that's done...the album will be out and touring will begin again in N. America (Late Spring/Summer 2007) with an all new show chock full of new songs. That being said, I believe we will see a single released either towards the end of or immediately after these current dates.

If my theory is right, they will finish the mixing and mastering by the end of April (before the South African dates), giving Uni 2 months to work on the proper promotion to a release in July. A single would be out in June.

Of course, it's just me trying to use a reasonable logic, something not so common with this band. :(

Perhaps using the Independence Day (July 4th...a Wednesday) as the marketing theme? July might be a little too far into the Summer for a release of this magnitude (not that it hasn't been done before, I'm sure) but the idea of 'Democracy' coming out around Independence Day here in the States would be clever.

Yes, I know this theory has been talked about before (every July 4th of the past 7 years or so) but, here we are...again  :hihi:

Wal-Mart hahaha. I agree that they're massive and here in the UK ASDA is pretty fucking big as well but havent you ever heard of real record stores in America? I for one won't be buying my copy of CD (if and when that is) with my bread and milk at ASDA, Ill be giving my custom to a proper record store that actually encourages music at grass roots level, not just some company trying to make a quick buck out of the Top 40 chart.

please bare in mind that for a major promotional strategy the record company needs all band members FREE of other music related chores: the band members are essential for the promotion, for example to give out interviews, pull off PR-events and stunts, so on and so forth. This is why you will not see the promotional cycle starting while the band is on tour, if the promotion is to follow regular music biz-sense and procedure.

Please base your theories on logical music business practice and logic next time. Im sorry.

Ya, and "Simon" has the rest!  :hihi:

thatd be nice wouldnt it? but there are precious few proper record sores around nowadays, and those there are, are a shadow of their former selves.

for those on this board who are in any doubt that wal mart is huge, a google search for details of other stores owned by walmart ?(asda, woolworths in some countries) will dissabuse them of their views. you may choose not to shop at these stores (as i do) but that doesnt mean tyhe record label wont care bout selling through them!

on the other hand, the scissor sisters probly just thought well fuck it and fuck our label. the only place we'll lose sales is the states. and that turned out to be the case. there is a tendencey among many to ignore, or forget, that europe is a huge market. i would not be remotely surprised if record sales and ticket sales go better in europe than the US, for the current incarnation of gnr, once they have an album to sell.

I cannot see how anyone still thinks this album will be released without weeks of promotion and a proper single.

erm...so a band has never done photos or given promo interviews while on tour...?

does anyone still believe that? i think the very best we can ask for is an anouncement on the release date (at least late june) in the next few days, prior to the tour starting, and a single very soon indeed.

I'm hoping with everything I got for that to be true.

"The band is too quiet" = CD is coming!

"The band is out there touring and giving interviews" = CD is coming!

"Let's make a thread that speculates CD is coming, for the one-hundred billionth time" = CD starts now!

 ::)

September or November.

So you are implying that the promotion is likely to start before mexico??? ???

The bands (probably) been quiet because they are busy with tour stuff.

Until Brain appears on stage again, I think its safe to say he is no longer in the band.

I'm not sure about the Tommy stuff. If his hand was damaged as much as they say, I'd have thought he would have needed afew months to recover.

I don't think Europe has Wal-Mart, or at least the UK doesn't. We don't want Wal-Mart, as we have Tesco, and Tesco are about to launch into the US, so Wal-Mart had better watch out, as Tesco wants to rule the world.

care to add a year to that?  :hihi:

I rarely come to this board after May 6th proved to be false.  I know it was tenetive and I'm not mad at Axl.... I've just waited too many years.  I still check up on the old board every once in a while, but quite frankly I think its time that I take "live my life" outside of GN'R a little further. 

To be honest, I don't care for talking about Axl's shoes or speculating about some random rumor.  I care about the music.  I want to hear, talk about, and love the music. 

I don't think CD is coming out soon.  Based on the history of the record, this lack of news means that jack shit is going to happen for some good amount of time.

Until I hear something official from the band again, I'm not interested.

but we have asda, who are owned by walmart. and i think woolworths over here may have some conection to walmart, as they are connected in canada.

Vains of Jenna. they are like AFD-era GN'R reincarnated. Fucking amazing.

Reports have shown Woolworths are doing very badly at the moment. They are struggling, and have become little more than a glorified corner shop, specializing in nothing in particular. A bit like WHSmiths really.

..and as for ASDA, well... ASDA makes Tesco's look impressive  :hihi:

Woolworths has been doing badly for 20 years ;D

Exactly. Also, there's a gap between some dates, which they could use for this purpose.

I just fail to see why I need to base my theory in "logical music business practice" if I'm not an business expert (unlike A LOT of people here claims to be). Also, there IS logic behind my theory, as I didn't talk out of my ass. Still, I even warned how I *tried* to use reasonable logic.

Agree totally. :yes:

If I can share my opinion on this issue also; Look, last year I was around these boards alot, checking up at work every few hours etc. I was getting very anxious as to the release of the album and what was going on especially when it came down to the 'x tuesdays left' thing with Merck. It got to a point where I was disappointed, not for any other reason than that I personally was really looking forward to the album coming out; nothing criticizing Axl, nothing criticizing Merck, or anybody else. All I wanted was one statement from Axl, and I got what I asked for and I was very happy.
I laid off the boards and went and listened to other bands and went on with life. March 6 came, no album, fair enough, it was only a tentative date after all, and it was the first time any official source had even set a date for the album, other than just spring 2000 or fall 2001 or whatever. But they did post an update on their website that all recording has been completed and mixing is under way (if not already complete). Obviously I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but my understand is that there are ALOT of legalities at the very least surrounding Axl and this album, considering all the contributions and co-writing credits etc, sparing any other legal details.
Barring the legal issues and other behind the scenes obstacles, I think the fact that recording being complete is a BIG achievement, after the years of sessions and contributors coming and going, the fact that all the recording is complete is a greater milestone than you could imagine right now. Sure, there is lack of information coming through, but without consideration of the current status of the mixing process, musically, the album is complete and could probably be set for schedule any time now.
The only thing that we don't know is what is holding it up, and as I said, I'm sure there are huge legal issues, and whatever other business matters that we won't know about because it doesn't involve us.

Look I admit even right now as I sit here, I wish we'd get some more updates about the album, and like every one else I hope sooner than later. But at the same time, there's nothing we can do about it but just sit and wait. Personally I'm ecstatic that they're going back on the road, and especially coming to Australia. And I'm sure everybody is going to get a chance to see them again. So we will enjoyt his, and the fact they are touring and they are not having any problems together. So the album will come when ready. As I said, obviously I hope sooner than later.. but no point getting angry because there's nothing we can do.

Sorry for the rant.

You are more than an island, you are a continent. And you have no Walmart? I am amazed! NOt even in Sydney?

Haven't bought shit for music fromWalmart and I live in NYC

Yeah - this thread didn't get knocked off track or anything.  :hihi:

I've pretty much conceded to the fact I may never see the album. I just now want to see them live again. Hopefully they'll come close to west texas this year and hopefully it'll be cheaper for me than those unlucky folks in Australia. Sure I would pay that much too see em, but i'd still be bitching about how much it costs.  :smoking:

As much as I would love to walk into FYE or any media store and see some kind of advertisement saying that Chinese Democracy will be out within this decade, I still continue to have faith that the album will be out this year... regardless of the fact that I have been saying "It will be out within this year" this since 'Oh My God' popped up on the End Of Days soundtrack...

I can understand perfectly why it has taken Axl so long to release Chinese Democracy... and it has to do with the fact that we as a culture have a tendency to buy an album for no other incentive than for the 'few good songs' the album contains. The endemic problem as far as mainstream artists and their albums are concerned is that alot of artists today record an album containing possibly two or three singles that gain alot of rotation on TV & radio, while the remaining songs on the album are reduced to nothing more than filler.

If my perception on this subject is anywhere near correct, Axl wants Chinese Democracy to be an album you'd listen to in its entirity rather than skipping from one track to another. For someone who has spent fifteen years making this album his magnum opus, he wants Chinese Democracy to be appreciated in its entirity, rather just for its singles.

Ben, I wonder what your thoughts on this are now today that shows have been canceled and the tour is postponed "indefinitely." Are you still so optimistic about them "going on the road"?

CD soon?, change that in CD never :( :(

While I think you're correct that Axl wants Chinese Democracy to be appreciated in its entirety, I hardly think that this is the reason why it has taken so long to produce an album.  The Beatles, Cream, Neil Young, Deep Purple and more artists back in the day were able to pump out albums that were solid from beginning to end (obviously, with a few exceptions) on a regular basis.  Look at Elton John: from 1969 to 1976 he released 11 albums, five of which (in a row, mind you) went to number on the charts.  To put that in perspective, that's the same amount of time between the release of "Oh My God" and last year - 2006. 

It doesn't take 10 years to write 12 decent songs if you've got the musical prowess of Axl Rose.  There's other reasons for the delay; reasons only members of the band could answer (though they choose not too is also very mysterious). 

Likewise, the phenomenon of artists writing two or three hits then filling the rest of the album with filler is nothing new.  Ozzy admits openly that on several Black Sabbath albums there was plenty of songs put together at the last second to fill the album (Paranoid was, at the time, deemed a filler song until it took off).  Granted it's far better to release an album that's solid from beginning to end and I do think a lot of artists consciously attempt to make a complete album. 

Cheers,

Andrew

why not concede that you will see the album and more eventually, maybe soon?

Yeah well said. If Zeppelin could put out LZ1, LZ2, LZ3, and LZ4 (all are great from start to finish with no obvious filler) all within a span of 2 years, then the whole "trying to make a strong album from start to finish" excuse is complete nonsense.

Zeppelin 1 - 1969
Zeppelin 2 - 1969
Zeppelin 3 - 1970
Zeppelin 4 - 1971

There simply is no excuse for Axl when other bands have put out plenty of strong albums in small timeframes. The Beatles are probably the best example. From Rubber Soul through Abbey Road, that was a total of 5 great albums in a span of 4 years. One of those albums was a double album, so it was technically 6 albums is 4 years. There is no excuse for someone with Axl's talent to have taken so long.

Two words: Legal Issues

To be honest that was just my own humble opinion. I have waited for a Guns N' Roses album (not some fucking compliation disc) since the rolling credits at the end of Interview With A Vampire shocked me with the cover of 'Sympathy For The Devil', and while the 1990's rolled by I was pretty oblivious that the main driving force behind the band's sound had bailed between '97-98. So when the day came that I was watching the trailer for End Of Days in 1999 and I hear about the soundtrack 'containing all new music from Guns N' Roses' *cut to a clip of 'Oh My God'* I nearly jumped from my seat in excitement. That night mentioning it to my friend he breaks the news that Gilby Clarke was canned, Slash, Duff and Matt Sorum had left and that Axl Rose was the only one left... and that "Guns N' Roses are pretty much broken up."

Flash forward to New Years Eve 2000 where they play the House Of Blues, I jump from my chair expecting Axl and the original group to have mended fences and regrouped, only to endure a smidgeon of disappointment before realizing that Axl is pretty much doing what he can to ensure that Guns N' Roses remains alive in somewhat the same fashion Dave Mustaine has kept Megadeth around for almost 25 years. My only hope, which is as true now as it was then, is that Axl can emulate Dave Mustaine's ability to create a better album than his last with an ever-changing line-up.

That is the ONLY legit excuse, but even then it's pretty ridiculous how long it's taking. It sounds like they have plenty of songs that they have created (Axl said somewhere in the 25-30 area right?). Just choose the best of those and release 'em. But he's far too paranoid for that. He keeps digging himself farther and farther into a hole. It's a vicious cycle that won't end until he finally gets this 800 pound gorilla off his back.

Yes, it has to come out soon.

I don't care about the release of the album while we can enjoy a tour like the last one. Chinese Democracy has to be the best album of Guns N' Roses history so if they want more time to make it better it's cool for me.

I wouldn't want to speculate too much, but it's very possible Axl will want to release a companion live "Chinese Democracy" DVD not long after the album hits and thus that, too, could be delaying things. Then again, I think the biggest problem at the moment is an element of perfectionism - Moby said the album was good enough to release in 1998 and Axl had enough songs at that point (when he was approached to do some production work) - and I think Axl and co. may have become hyperaware of the pressure facing them and won't release the record until it is absolutely perfect and cannot possibly be improved in any way shape or form by any further tinkering. Studio perfectionism can be a gorilla on someone's back.

Given the complexity of UYI... with the cover art and movie samples, my best guess is that he's attempting something even more complex that may require more challenging permissions as well as impecable timing. I think it'll be worth the wait what ever it ends up being and WHEN ever it ends up coming out. JMHO

I don't think the album will ever come out.  But that doesn't mean I'm negative or hold any animosity tolds GNR. I love this band, I'll go see them again if they play by me, I'll always support this version of GNR.  But 2006 was the perfect year to release it.  Now does that mean we won't hear any new music ? No, I think we'll hear some new songs live, or leaked again, but the fascination of going to Best Buy and buying a cd called Chinese Democracy by Guns N' Roses does not seem like a reality.  I would love to be proven wrong on this one though.

One thing is certain. It won't be very profitable in today's time of decreased album sales. They'll need a couple of huge hits to help boost total profitability of the project. Green Day's American Idiot sold around 15 million worldwide and I'd compare it with AFD, which has probably sold over 25 million worldwide. It's just a lot harder to sell albums today. The single "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" sold 3 million copies in the U.S. for Green Day. GN'R will need a couple of huge hits like that plus an incredible album for this project to break even. $15+ million spent is an incredible hole to start out in.

we dont know how much it has to sell to break even, as we dont no what everyone is gonna be paid for it either.

I just happened to reread the 2000 Rollingstone article today and came across this about Axl:
"He feels like the world revolves around him, but he refuses most requests to speak publicly about himself. He believes in justice, but he doesn't believe he has to be fair. He can be an incisive observer of human weakness in his songs, yet when it comes to his own conduct, he has little perspective. "Axl's really easy to hate, and he doesn't understand why," a friend observes. "He lives in a fantasy world, a parallel universe. He's self?centered, like a child, but not so naive. When he calls, all he wants to talk about is his record and how Interscope can't fix things for him."

It kinda pisses me off that this article seems to be right. 7 years later and the same characteristics seem to be coming through.  Interesting article, although the description of Axl's behavior (supposed) towards his Ex Gf's is a little troubling.  I hope that shit isn't true.

and if it is true, it's still none of your business and no woman has had to complain in the recent years and axl had yet again pulled a model who seems happy with him so that's the end for your imagination, isn't it ? :peace:

you gotta link to that article?? i haven't read it in a long time

I'm sorry, but it wasn't legal issues that had them still recording material in 2007.

I believe the correct two words are "not ready".

Legal issues might have played a role, in that perhaps Axl's mind was elsewhere and he couldn't focus, and they may have played a role in some form of delay, but not this long. 

The truth is, nobody knows exactly why this album has taken this long.  We know that according to confirmed sources they had written and recorded more than enough material to have released an album back in 2000.  And we know that IRS, TWAT, and The Blues have all been re-tooled and reworked significantly so it's safe to say that many of the other songs have undergone this meticulous fine tuning process.  And we know that Axl has yet to be 100% satisfied with the final product because the album has never been turned in to the record label.  Everything else is just speculation, whether Axl had a severe case of writer's block, was uncertain of which direction to go musically, has had long periods where he doesn't feel inspired to write music, that he's not ready for the media circus and the scrutiny that will inevitably accompany the release, these are all possible reasons but nobody besides Axl and others close to the band really know

the black album was mixed from 6-10-1991 to 7-08-1991 , mastered from 07-08-1991 to 07-10-1991...and this was in 1991 , so what is going on in the gnr world to hold this album up in 2007 , I figure things would be   a little faster with technology.

..or unsure about what they do have (material wise)

Green Day might be the worst band ever. It makes me wonder, when a shit like Green Day or Fall Out Boy sells, how come Chinese Democracy wouldn't be a success.

Soon is not the word. Late, late fall or 2008...

Here is the best reason why its taken so long....are u ready??    Axl is lazy. Not legal issues, perfectionism, old battles with past band members....none of that. Im sure they work a couple of days a week, take sometimes 2-4 weeks off at a time, and Axl is just, generally, in no rush.

dont underestimate this.....my bet is laziness and inertia.

Its all part of the process.

Have you ever created something, thought it was great (at the time) only to return to it 1 day, 1 week, or 1 month later only to spot the faults. I think Chinese Democracy has been put through such a process. There's probably (definitely) been change after change after change made to the various tracks that make up Chinese Democracy. While making changes can improve something, it can also detract from it (I think they call it, being over worked). NME said some T.W.A.T. sounded over produced (thus lacking in rawness). The track The Blues has been watered down near the start since the 2000 Rio 'coolest' version.