Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Ok, for the 3 or 4 of you here that actually like basketball... Let's talk about the Playoffs that start up on Saturday!

The final games of the season are tonight and the matchups in the East can still juggle around a bit, but I think the only possible shift in the West would be the Clippers moving into the 8th playoff spot and knocking out Golden State (which doesn't really matter since either team has to play the Mavs in the first round).

I hear a lot of people saying Detoit vs Toronto in the East finals... Who can disagree with Miami having to go through both Chicago or Cleveland and Detroit to make it there?

I honestly hope that the Mavs get swept by the Suns in the conference finals.

The West, albeit the more powerful conference, is so boring.  I'll be watching the Eastern Conference matchups mroe closely.  The rise of Toronto, and the resurgent Bulls really gets me excited.

Looks like Golden State will clinch tonight.

That would be fucking great . Just don't see it happen though.

Hoping that the suns win the whole damn thing.

^ ummm, no, that would  not be great. What would be great is if the Mavs win it all. So we need to adjust our attitude a bit because the Mavs rule this year.  :peace:

Nahhh... the Mavs aren't winning anything... I bet Houston could knock em off!

Adjust your attitude a bit ...Suns all the way. :peace:

My guesses:

The Miami Heat and the Chicago Bulls will play the eastern conference final. Chicago, leaded by the great Ben Gordon and by argentine gladiator called Andres ''Chapu'' Nocioni will win.

The Phoenix Suns and the San Antonio Spurs will play the western conference final. San Antonio will destroy the suns, leaded by argentine Olympic Games champion Emanuel ''Manu'' Ginobili.

San Antonio will defeat Chicago in a very tough final. Chicago will start 2-0, but the Spurs will win another ring again.

This time, the NBA will not ROB Manu Ginobili in the MVP like they did the last time  :rant:

 :peace:

PS: I hate Carmelo Anthony  :hihi:

I guess we  will  see. It should be a great playoff series all the way around.

your right it should be a great playoff series all around. :beer:

(Especially when the Mavs win it all--had to throw  that one in there!! :beer:)

I had to fix that error of yours  :hihi:

Touche! :beer:

If the Mavs don't win, I hope it is the Suns. I like Nash and wish he  never left.

I actually like the mavs . Just don't like Cuban. they do have a very fucking good team.

Cuban can be an ass. But Nowitski? called him out after the? finals? last year and this year he has been on good behavior. But give him credit, Cuban took a moribund? franchise and turned? it into a powerhouse. I hope he buys the Cubs and does the same thing. He has? a good business sense, and overall, is a good? owner in terms of promoting? his team and the sport. Did you know he? has? his own blog space and actually answers 200 or so fan emails? every week? That? is remarkable. His? passion is admirable, even if he has been immature in the past.

he is a great owner. dude just got on my nerves last year. And this year I zone out when I hear anything about the dude. ...Might have to check out his blog though.

My guess:

You will be wrong!.... Miami and Chicago are playing in the first round... and the winner will have to play Detroit!  : ok:

When do they usually announce the awards for the season?  It is periodically throughout the playoffs correct?

They usually have all the awards handed out by the second round.

Fucking Mavs!
Or is  it Fucking Warriors?!!?

I had a bad feeling about game  1, after watching the Spurs go down. My worst fears came true.
I am starting to think that the Mavs  could  actually lose  this  series.

The mavs played like total shit that game. I would worry though unless they do it again.

oh ,go suns.

The mavs might have met their match with the warriors. They have not beaten them this year.

I wonder if the fact that the mavs haven't beaten the warriors this year is effecting the minds of the mavs.Can't be good for their mental preparation.

I loved watching Cuban throw his hissy fit towards the end of the 4th... I think it would be a damn shame (and totally hilarious!)  for a team to get 69 wins in the season after starting 0-4 and then get dropped by an 8th seed!

I also think Denver has the potential to beat the Spurs... they were just starting to click as the season ended, so I don't think you can look at their record.

I would be surprised one bit if Denver knocks off the spurs.

Cubans hissy fits were funny now they are just lame.

I don't see how it can't get into their heads.

well the facted that they won what 69 games but could bin against them. has to be a mind fuck. which could play into their mental game.

Are you talking to yourself?   :rofl:

I don't know anymore.... :crying:..somebody help me :hihi:

He hasn't had a hissy fit all year (2006-07 basketball season). So you need to use past tense.... "were just lame."

Mavs won 67, not 69 games.

I just love how Phoenix can score at will, while the Lakers have to work hard for every bucket.

Then have Kobe put up enough bricks to build a house in the 4th quarter.

That was my bad, I said 69 games first.... but 2 games doesn't really affect the statement he was making.

How about my boy Sam Mitchell getting Coach of the Year?  Can't wait for the Raps game tonight!   :beer:

my bad .

Still they won all those games just to get taken out in this early in the playoffs. :hihi:

Sweeeeet, Chicago is having its way with Miami.

Mavs and spurs both bounce back . those two series should be damn good.

I'm hoping it will be a huge confidence booster for Dallas knowing they finally got a win against the warriors.

well doesn't look like that happened . they got killed last night.  they have to win the next game or they are going to be out. I don't see them beating golden state two times in a row.


The heat are done for

How about the Warriors?  KICK ASS!

Chicago is up 3-0 on Miami!  Hope the Heat get swept.

Let's see if the Lakers can even things up tomorrow.

The Warriors are just playing on a level that is mind blowing. Dallas looks like a team that was lost and didn't know what to do last night.

I think the heat will be swept.

Nelly has Dallas' number.  Dirk looks lost out there.

Dallas 's big problem is that dirk is still playing well. just that the rest of the team isn't doing shit hardly.

Dallas has to slow the game down they can't play run the court with the Warriors.

The Warriors are a menace!... Dallas looks like they are waiting for them to run set plays, but they just send 5 guards out there to run around and jack up shots!  Imagine the two teams in the NBA finals last year getting the boot in the first round?

Fuck Vince Carter!

That seems to be a realistic possibility if Dallas doesn't wake up.

 :hihi:

Vince was a fucking mad man yesterday. Jason Kidd was also playing great

Bye,Bye Miami heat.

Big Ben hit 7 straight free throws. :o

He almost cracked a smile by the 7th one!....  I thought that series would go to at least 6 games.

yeah dude almost did.


The lakers are just getting killed by the suns. This series could be over , if the suns win today. their is no way in hell LA is going to come back

Nash is just a fucking insanely great player.

It would be awesome if the Lakers could do what the Suns did to them last year.

But it's just not gonna happen.  You can usually tell by the first quarter.  The Lakers gave up too many points.  They kept it close, but if you want to get in a scoring match with Phoenix, you WILL NOT WIN!  Especially when Kobe is the only guy scoring.

I'm so happy Miami got booted.  The East is looking real good.  The Central Division teams just had their way with their opponents.

The raptors better thank god that they are going home for the next game ,damn

That was ugly.  UGLY.

Looks like a thriller shaping up in Golden State, I hope they can pull it off in the 4th!

I think the Dallas one is gonna go right down to the last few seconds.

Dallas and Golden State was entertaining as hell. This is GS 's series to lose now. Dallas may win one more but I think they are done.

I agree, If Dallas wins game 5 at home i think they have a chance to steal game 6. If they do that i think they win game 7 at home.

Hold on everyone, dont get too ahead of yourselves.

Dallas are winning this series.


Remember last year when LA got up on Phoenix 3-1?

This is the same situation.

Dallas will win at home and make it 3-2.

If Golden St lose game 6, they have no shot of winning game 7.


The series is FAR from over.

I'm still expecting the Mavs to come back, but it won't matter in the long run because after a 7-game series, no way they have enough left in the tank to get past both the Spurs and the Suns.

They won't have to.

SA are playing Phoenix in round 2.

Dallas if they come back would get Utah or Houston

^That's right, for some reason I thought SA was the 4 seed.  In any case, to beat a ridiculously hot team 3 in a row will be draining.  If they get through this, I guess they'll hope that the Suns and Spurs beat each other to death when they play next round. 

Fucking Mavs. I stay up til 12:30 am on a working day, have a hang over, and for what? To see them unable to contain B. Davis and unable to win a game they should have won. This is not the same  team that won 67 games during the season and I don't understand what the problem is. The Warriors are not that good, but the way the Mavs are playing the Warriors look like the greatest team ever. I don't get it.

the warriors just want it more. Plus the fact that the mavs are just being out coached. adds up to what is happenings.

I don't think the Mavs are being outcoached. I think Nowitski has disappeared, Terry is not playing well, and the Mavs no one to stop Baron Davis. I would not blame Johnson or for that matter give that much credit to Nelson. The Mavs just don't match up well.

Well the mavs are gonna live to fight another day. Lets see what happens in game 6.

They *barely* won on their home floor.  The Warriors should wrap things up in Oakland.

I hope the Lakers don't play their last game today.  :-[

The whole point  of being seeded number 1 is that you don't have to play both  the Suns and Spurs. In fact, if the Spurs and Suns  win  their respective series, they will play each other. If the Mavs win, they play the  winner of the Utah-Houston series.

Dirk is back, those shots will make him go back to the old Dirk and GS blew their chance.


They dont win tonight and it is over.

IT is SOOOOOOO hard to close a team out and GS blew their chance. Dallas will win the next two. Guarantee it. : ok:

really now D?  i believe what we had here tonight was an old fashion Ass Kickin!!!!!!!

mavs really really really choked it this series!!!

So Golden State will face the winner of the Houston/Utah series.

Well i admit it. I was wrong i thought no one would beat Dallas.

You and the rest of America. This was  a major collapse--the first time a #1 seed lost to a #8 seed in a 7 game series.
The Mavs choked, and it all started  when Johnson felt  the need to adjust his starting lineup in game 1, instead of sending a signal that the Warriors had to adjust to the Mavs. I simply am unable to explain the outcome. I watched the first half of the Utah-Warriors  last night, and Utah did exactly what the Mavs should have--attack the basket and get the ball down low in the paint where the Warriors are weak. Why the Mavs thought that they could win a 3 point shoot out is beyond me. Just stupid.

Ouch!!  What a crazy first round... Miami and Dallas both get knocked off!  I really hope we don't end up with a boring as hell San Antonio vs. Detroit final, I won't even bother to watch.

I just finished reading the Slam magazine with the 3 Suns on the cover... They had their "NBA Finals predictions" and underneath the headline "Last year none of us suspected the Miami Heat would take the NBA Championship, this year we've done a little bit better with our predictions".... and 6/8 of them chose the Mavs!!  I got a kick out of that.

Kobe says he wants Lakers to trade him

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Kobe Bryant asked to be traded from the Lakers on Wednesday, a day after calling the team's front office "a mess." He said there was nothing the Lakers could do to change his mind.

"I would like to be traded, yeah," Bryant told ESPN radio. "Tough as it is to come to that conclusion there's no other alternative."

Bryant, who helped the Lakers win three consecutive NBA championships, has four years left on the US$136.4-million, seven-year contract he signed July 15, 2004. That was a day after Shaquille O'Neal was traded to the Miami Heat.

Bryant became infuriated Tuesday when a Los Angeles Times columnist quoted what he called a Lakers insider as saying it was Bryant's insistence on getting away from O'Neal that prompted the trade to Miami.

The Lakers did not immediately respond to a message left by The Associated Press.

 

Bryant, an 11-year veteran who turns 29 in August, urged the team at season's end to do whatever it takes to get back into championship contention. He essentially repeated those comments last weekend in an interview with the Los Angeles Times.

On Sunday, he suggested former Lakers general manager Jerry West should return to the team. West left the team in the summer of 2000 and was succeeded by current GM Mitch Kupchak.

West, an employee of the Lakers for some 40 years as a player, coach and executive, is under contract as the Memphis Grizzlies' president until July 1. He turned 69 this week and has remained a close friend of Kupchak's. West said in a statement he has "no plans to seek employment with any other organization."

On Tuesday, Bryant did a series of radio interviews bashing the Lakers. He contended owner Jerry Buss misled him three years ago, saying the team would try immediately to rejoin the NBA's elite.

Bryant earned $17.72 million last season and is owed $88.6 million over the next four years. He can terminate his contract following the 2008-09 season.

He would obviously waive his no-trade clause, but he has a trade clause in his contract that is believed to add about $13 million to his total contract value, a cost to be absorbed by any team that acquires him. The money would be paid like a signing bonus and would not count toward the salary cap. The Lakers had to pay a similar fee to Lamar Odom when they acquired him from Miami three years ago, paying him about $8 million.

With O'Neal and Bryant leading the way, the Lakers won championships from 2000-02 and reached the NBA final again in 2004, losing to the Detroit Pistons in five games.

The team was broken up at that time, with O'Neal traded, coach Phil Jackson leaving and other stalwarts - Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry and Rick Fox - going elsewhere or retiring.

The Lakers failed to make the playoffs the following season. With Jackson returning, they finished seventh in the Western Conference in each of the past two years but were eliminated by the Phoenix Suns in the first round of the playoffs.

As posted to my sports blog...

Wednesday, May 30, 2007
E=MC^2: Odds on winning the NBA East

It's hard to come up with odds for sporting events. Some can do it by analyzing stats. Some do it by analyzing history. Some just randomly pull numbers out of thin air.

WhoWins.com has a full historical analysis of every MLB, NHL, and NBA playoff series, including records of how often a team wins a playoff series for each possible record (1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 2-2, 3-2, and 3-3). So taking a look at each of these, here are the odds on the Cavs managing to take the Eastern Conference title.

Before the series started: 1.18-1 for the Cavs taking it. Teams playing a conference rival and have a 3+ game lead over them are actually 11-13 in playoff series! Advantage: Cavs

After Game 1, 79-76 win for Detroit: 5.8-1 against. Ouch. The odds have gotten worse for the Cavs!

After Game 2, another 79-76 win for Detroit: 22-1 against. Yeah, looks hopeless, doesn't it?

After Game 3, a Cavs' 88-82 win: 5.72-1 against. Still not the best, but better than that ugly 22-1.

After Game 4, a Cavs' win 91-87: 2.5-1 against. Now here are some odds I can live with! I still wouldn't bet a dime on the Cavs winning since I know way too much about Cleveland sports to ever bet on one of our teams. But things are looking better. By the way, the Cavs are 5-0 all-time in Game 4's when they're down 2-1 in a best of 7 playoff series. I'm not sure what to make of that, but it's an interesting number nonetheless.

Game 5 will be huge. It's in Detroit, where the Cavs are 0-2 in the postseason, and 1-1 in the regular season: a 1-3 record. Last year, including the Playoffs, the Cavs were 1-5 in Detroit. All told, things do not look good for the Cavs. They've already used up their one victory in Detroit for the year. Though again, looking at history, last year the Cavs dropped the first two in Detroit, won two at home, then won Game 5 in Detroit. Can it happen again? We'll see. Just remember these things going into the final two to three games of this series.

1. To quote the band Split Enz, "History never repeats."

2. Within a week, you could hear the following phrase: "In two of the most incredible upsets in NBA history, the Cleveland Cavaliers will face off with the Utah Jazz, in Carlos Boozer's boo-filled homecoming to his former city of Cleveland."

3. If you lose it, LeBron will come. And he has.

4. If the situations were reversed, Cleveland would be bracing themselves for another typical "Cleveland Loss," you know the ones like The Drive, The Shot, the 1997 World Series, and the 2003 playoff game against Pittsburgh, where Cleveland leads and blows it. Instead, we're preparing for the other type of Cleveland Loss: The Fumble, where the team mounts a huge comeback to give themselves a chance to win, and blows it in the end.

5. Only two NBA teams have ever faced a 2-0 deficit without home court advantage and managed to come back and win. If it happens this year, this Cavs squad will be only the third, and placed into the annals of history. Maybe I'm stretching a bit here, but I still feel it's worth mentioning.

6. The non-shot in Game 1 did expose one flaw: LeBron James isn't Michael Jordan. But it will come with time. He's only in his fourth season and 23 years old, while it took MJ 7 seasons to win an NBA Championship, at age 27. Additionally, it took Jordan 5 years to get to his first Conference Championship, something LeBron has done in 4 years. Don't expect immediate results: even the greatest player in the past 20 years wasn't perfect when he first played. I'd still be happy if the Cavs lost. Sort of.

7. Rasheed Wallace is only two technicals away from a suspension. Should he get T'ed up on Thursday and Saturday, he'll be out for Game 7.

8. The Cavs have a record of 4-2 in Game 5's when tied 2-2, and a 3-3 record for series' when tied 2-2. Meanwhile the Pistons have a 10-7 series record and an 8-9 Game 5 record. In a similar situation last year, the Cleveland Plain Dealer asked us, "Do You Believe?"

9. If the Cavs manage to pull off the upset and beat San Antonio or Utah, you'll never have to hear me complain about the cursed state of Cleveland sports again.

10. Read that last sentence again.

Kobe doesn't want to be traded anymore.

Oh boy, wouldn't ya love to be one of his teammates?  "This team is a mess." -Kobe.

"Oh yeah, uh, hey guys!  I, uh, I must have been misquoted."    :-[

i've hated kobe since he fucked away shaq from LA



lebron on the other hand, my gawd, i hope cleveland takes it all this year

How are the odds looking after Game 5?    ;)

Holy SHIT!  That was one of the best basketball performances I've seen in my life... with about 6 minutes left in the game my friend said "If Lebron ever wants to be like MJ, he needs to start stepping it up in the big moments"... 2 OTs and 25 straight points later he was a little bit shocked.   :o

The odds are now approximately 2.28-1 in the Cavs' favor now.  Honestly, I've never been a big basketball fan (being from Cleveland, I had my reasons not to watch from 1998-2003), but I'm finding myself watching again.  Last night, holy shit.  Yeah, it's not 69 points or a series-winning over Craig Ehlo, but it was still amazing.

I produce and co-host a sports show on the local AM radio station, and last week, the other two guys were already handing this series over to the Pistons.  I will take up the full 30 minutes this week shaming them into admitting they were wrong and singing the praises of LeBron James.

Posted to SportsFansOnline.net, Simply Drew...

Friday, June 01, 2007
"It seems the tables have turned, Mr. Powers"

What can I even say after that game last night? Will I even be able to hold all my emotions together as I write this? (NOTE AFTER FINISHING: I was. Barely.)

This is the first time I have ever sat down to write on sports and had writers' block set in.

LeBron James. 48 points. Scored the Cavs' last 25 by himself. Two overtimes. Playing on a gimpy ankle in the final few minutes.

The odds have moved from 22-1 against the Cavs winning the series to 2.28-1 in favor of them winning.

All those times I could have seen the guy play at Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary high school, I'll be kicking myself for years for not doing it. I saw him dominate SVSM's football games, but never got to see him on the court. Want to know what he could have done in football? Picture this: my school leads SVSM 12-0 at halftime. LeBron hasn't played yet. Finally he shows up and puts on the pads. 24 minutes on the clock later, SVSM wins 28-12. LeBron caught 6 passes for 132 yards and 2 TD's being covered by our best corners. Yes, corners: two of them on him the entire time.

It's gotten to the point where I don't care if he plays just this contract in Cleveland and then moves on to the big money in New York or Los Angeles, as long as he can take the Cavs all the way this year. And as with every year, I believe. The entire city of Cleveland believes.

But then again, we've believed in the past.

We believed when Brian Sipe called for Red Right 88. And when John Elway stepped under center at the two. And when Earnest Byner took the handoff. When Tim Couch was called to the stage. And when the Browns led the Steelers 24-7 in the third.

We believed when Vic Wertz pounded the ball to center in the Polo Grounds. When a young pitcher named Herb Score was ready to take baseball by storm. When Kenny Lofton sprinted in to score from second in the 1995 ALCS. And when Jose Mesa was called in from the bullpen in 1997. We believed when a fly ball was hit to Grady Sizemore in 2005.

We believed after the Miracle at Richfield. And when Craig Ehlo went in for a layup and the lead. When Mark Price, Larry Nance, and Brad Daugherty came together in the 1991-92 season.

And then the faith disappeared. Into the hands of Mike Davis. And Mark Jackson. Jeremiah Castille. And Hines Ward. Into the glove of Willie Mays. Off Score's eye. Under the glove of Tony Fernandez. Into the sun for Sizemore. And when Michael Jordan got an inbound pass.

By now, I should just learn not to believe. It only ends in heartbreak.

But then you figured that the one time it doesn't end that way is the one time you didn't believe.

It's hard, but I can't not believe this time around.

Bring it on home LeBron, you've got an entire city behind you.

As it turns out, it was all of managements doing.

(I still don't really care for Kobe though, I just want the Lakers to do well.)

As for King James...I've seen a lot of basketball games in my day, and that had to be one of the greatest performances I've ever seen.

I'm still not gonna get my hopes up.  Cleveland had a 3-2 lead in the series last year and found a way to blow it.  Keep your fingers crossed.

So... Cleveland vs. San Antonio.

I'm being a total homer here, but I like Cleveland's chances in this one.  2-0 against the Spurs in the regular season.

I sure root for cleveland in this finals.. it's their time now.. duncan has his rings already

I think almost everyone is backing the Cavs at this point... including me.  I would find another SA championship incredibly boring... the league NEEDS Lebron to take this one.   : ok:

Seems to be the general consensus at every board I post at-- everyone wants the Cavs to win and another Spurs victory would be boring.

Feel free to jump on the Cleveland bandwagon, god knows we need both the help and someone to empathize with us if and when the Spurs win.

go cavs! i wasn't a lebron fan but he earned alot of respect in the last week. although i didn't like his comments after the game.

i think the spurs will win in 5.

Spurs will win it at Game 6. Spurs - 96 Cav's 89  :hihi:

I'm looking forward to seeing how Lebron will react to Bruce Bowen's defensive tactics. ?

After which game?  He didn't talk much after Game 5... certainly from exhaustion...

game 6.

"Something had to go right for Cleveland sports. Something had to go right," said James, who mentioned what he had promised Cleveland four years ago when drafted as a high school phenom.

"I was going to light it up like Vegas," he said.


when i first heard it, it seemed like he was satisfied. the city hasn't won a championship in 40-some years. just making it to the finals doesn't mean anything. you have to win it all to say that something has "gone right" for the city.

Bowen has had some trouble handling the bigger, more powerful guys, and Lebron at 6'8" 250 fits that mold.

True, I'm expecting that they'll use him as a help defender (at least for the first 3 quarters).  Either way, Bowen will do what he does (grab, kick, trip, undercut, step on achilles tendons, etc. - all purely incidental contact, of course) to try and get under his skin.

I am not  usually a Cavs fan, but that series  with Detroit  was great TV! LeBron was awesome. First  time I watched him several times. Game 5 was just incredible.

Having said  that, I fully expect SA to win. The coach and  the team are too smart, too experienced, too savvy for it to turn out any other way. On the other hand, my heart would love  to see a Cavs victory. When was the last  time Cleveland won  anything?

the cavs coach is awful. he is so over-matched in this series. it's gonna be sad how badly he gets out-coached.

I agree, it will be embarrassing. Did you see how he fucked up the time out situation in regulation Game 5--almost cost them the game. Popovich will make mince meat of  the Cav's coach. Mike something or other, who even knows? Did he ever play ball? Never even heard of him.

I'm just like almost everyone else:

I want the Cavs to win.

I think the Spurs will win.

But in the end...my Celtics still suck.

Plus, the Celtics didn't even get the top pick in the lottery. They will remain bad for the foreseeable  future, it would seem.

... and the West will remain powerful for the foreseeable future.  As a Raps fan, I guess it's a good thing that Oden or Durant won't be in the same division.  ;D


I didn't catch either of the regular season games between these two... What did the Cavs do that gave them the Ws?

Unless Bird, McHale, and Parish all find the fountain of youth and return to their 20's, and they find some way to resurrect DJ (man, was that sad...) and get him to drink from the same fountain....that's probably the case.

That team has been so mismanaged since their glory days it's depressing.  Once Red stopped having day to day influence....ye gods it got bad fast.  They've never recovered from losing Reggie Lewis (heck, or Len Bias)....and Ainge has sucked during his regime.

1964 Cleveland Browns were the last major team to win anything more than a divisional or conference championship.  1999 if you count pro indoor soccer.


Mike Brown never played pro ball, but he was the defensive specialist assistant coach under Popovich for 2000-2003, winning an NBA championship in 2003.  The highest level he played was with Mesa Community College.

But playing experience doesn't mean everything-- Out of the NBA's list of the 10 greatest coaches, five of them never played pro ball.  And if you look at other sports, very few great managers were anything more than marginal players: Tony LaRussa, Sparky Anderson, Tommy Lasorda, Earl Weaver, Tom Kelly, Bobby Cox, and Jim Leyland were nothing more than marginal major leaguers and in some cases never made it at all.  In the NHL, Scotty Bowman, Ken Hitchcock, Peter Laviolette, John Tortorella, Pat Burns, and Bob Hartley never played in the NHL-- that's every coach to lead a team to a Stanley Cup victory since 1997 (the only exception is Larry Robinson, and I don't count him as he was coach for only 8 regular season games the year sthe Devils won it; however he did take over for former NHL player Robbie Ftorek).

I still say Spurs in 6, but the Cavs did beat them in both of their regular season games against each other.  So we'll see-- that's why they play the games.

I agree 100%--experience  is  one  thing, and a lot of  good managers  were  marginal  players. But to not play at  all? That is something completely different. I don't know a lot about  Mike  Brown, but the few games  I have seen, I have not been impressed. Popovich will run circles  around him.

Thursday, June 07, 2007, 9:38 PM
NBA Finals, Game One

Time for a recap. The good, the bad, the ugly, and how to turn it around for Game Two.

Call me a homer on this, but this was not the Cavs we saw tonight. No calls going Cleveland's way in the paint, LeBron James with an oh-fer from the field in the first half, and seeing Zydrunas Ilgauskas trying to shoot from 19 feet? Really?

As the ABC announcers said at the start of the fourth-- the Cavs played well enough defensively to win it, but the offense just wasn't there. And don't give me this bunk about it being the playoffs and the team being nervous. You need to treat this like what it is-- just another game against a team you've beaten twice this year and three times in a row dating back to last year. Before tonight, the Cavs last loss to the Spurs was November 4, 2005, also in San Antonio.

First off, the Cavs failed to control the boards. In my Finals preview, I mentioned the Cavs had a better average in rebounds per game in the playoffs than the Spurs did. Tonight the Spurs out-rebounded the Cavs 43-32, and 13-9 on the offensive boards. It seemed like every time a shot went up, the Cavs big guys just stood back and watched as a San Antonio player came away with the ball.

Next up, a lack of offense. While a lot has been made of LeBron's willingness to get his teammates involved, that willingness was lacking tonight. He attempted the most shots of any Cavs player with 16, and had the third lowest field goal percentage (4 of 16 for 25%; Larry Hughes was 1 of 5, Ilgauskas was 1 of 8).

Third, Daniel Gibson. Why is he not starting? Why is the ball not getting to him nearly enough? He comes off a 31-point performance, and shoots 7 of 9. Why is he not the one taking the 16 shots per game? He has the hot hand, so why is it not getting used. Think about it: the Cavs lost by 9. Lets take about half of those shots LeBron missed (That would be 6) and put them in Boobie's hands. So he's 5 of 6 from two, 2 of 3 from three. So of those 6 shots, two would be from three-point land, four would be from two. Playing the odds, we'll say he hits one from three and three from two. That's 9 points. Let Boobie shoot, and this is an even game. Something has to change in the game plan to get the ball into his hands. Oh yeah, he had four steals too. Shoots better than Hughes, plays better D than Eric Snow... why not play the guy?

Fourth, officiating. Every possible call in the paint went against the Cavs. From obvious charges not being called to Manu Ginobli flipping and falling everywhere like a fish pulled out of water, everything seemed to go the way of San Antonio. Not much you can do here, just ride it out. As the numbers have shown, in spite of the calls going the other way, the Cavs were right in the thick of things.

Fifth, the third quarter. What the HELL is going on with the Cavs falling apart here? It happened in the Detroit series, and the New Jersey series (outscored in the third in five games out of six, outscored by 8 or more in three of six), and badly in one game of the Washington sweep. Even looking at averages from the regular season, the Cavs outscored their opponents by an average of at least eight-tenths of a point (0.8 points) in every quarter-- except the third. Why? Is it as the TNT announcers said in the Detroit series that not enough teams do a serious warm-up after the half?

So what needs to change? First off, cut the crap with the nerves. I don't care that it's the first Finals appearance for everyone on the team not named Eric Snow. Treat it like just another game. There's nothing at stake here any more than just another win. Second, grab some rebounds. Fight for the ball! Third, shot selection. I never want to see a guy who's taller than 7' putting up 18-foot jumpers (Yes Z, I'm referring to you). If Lebron can't get a decent shot, look elsewhere. And if Daniel Gibson keeps draining shots, then for the love of all that is good in the world, GET HIM THE BALL! Fifth, driving the lane on Tim Duncan usually results in disaster, as evidenced by his five blocks. Lastly, on defense, quit letting a guy stay open forever. The Spurs will find him, and he will shoot, and he will drain that shot. Usually from long distance.

It ain't over. The Cavs have shown they belong here. But now will they learn anything from Game 1?

The fact is, as we saw last night... the Spurs are dominant.

It would be boring to see them win again? Are you stupid? Dynastys is what sports are about and I love it. The Cavs are a young punk team led by a 22 year old punk.

LeBron James is great yeah, but he isn't there yet. I don't like the guy. Very cocky in a quiet way. Spurs got this one in a sweep. Cleveland has a few more years before they pull that out.

Lebron heroed us with his game 5 antics, which were impressive, but the guy isn't Michael Jordan or King James. Who in the hell goes 0/7 in a half?

It's really the big time and Duncan, Parker, and co. have too much XP and way way way too many rings to let them win...

SPURS in 4!!!

99, 03, 05 champs!!!!

Dominant?  Please, the Cavs made poor shot choices, the Spurs got away with everything in the paint, and the Cavs' rebounders gave up very easily.

Tomorrow night will be a VERY different game out of the Cavs.

And it would be very boring to see them win again.  No one wants to see the Yankees win.  Or the Red Wings.  Or the Pistons.  Or the Lakers.  This is a boring team that's built on defense.  Teams like that are a total snooze-fest to watch in any sport (New Jersey Devils, Baltimore Ravens... wake me up when it's over).

Just wait on Lebron.  Give him something of a supporting cast and it's no contest.  Every great player has had someone with them.  Jordan and Pippen.  Shaq and Kobe.  Magic, Kareem, and Worthy.  Bird, Parish, and McHale.  Shaq and Dwyane.  Nash and Amare.  Duncan and Robinson.  Duncan and Parker.  Thomas and Dumars.  Olajuwon and Maxwell.  Lebron needs someone else around him.  Daniel Gibson is on his way there, but Brown needs to start the guy and get the ball into his hands.

There's no way this series is a sweep.  Cavs played well in game 1, their offense was just crap.  I'm sticking by Spurs in 6; the Cavs proved they can hang in.  By the way, with a Game 1 victory and home-court advantage, the Spurs are currently 4-1 favorites to win the series but only 5-4 favorites to win tomorrow night.

Don't forget, last year Dallas won Game 1 at home.  So did Utah in 1998.  Both went on to lose.  And the Cavs lost Games 1 and 2 on the road last series and won.  One game is meaningless in the big picture.

Jumped on any other bandwagons lately?

What a brutal game last night... I hope home court sparks SOMETHING for the Cavs.

In the playoffs this year, the Cavs are 5-5 on the road, and 7-1 at home.

Additionally, the Cavs were down 2-0 after two on the road against Detroit.

Last year, Dallas won games 1 and 2 at home, but Miami took the series.

No matter what my brain keeps telling me about The Shot, The Fumble, The Drive, Red Right 88, The Catch, and every other Cleveland sports mishap since 1950, I keep thinking something will change eventually.  Why not now?

Yeah, but they could've easily been up 2-0 after the first two games against Detroit... San Antonio has been spanking them.  I just want the Cavs to come out at least looking respectable.

Tuesday, June 12, 2007
NBA Finals: Game 3 in Review

I'm a tad cheesed.

Just a tad, really. I promise.

Oh hell, forget it. This was the most excruciating game I've ever watched for multiple reasons. And this is saying something, considering I can't usually sit through an entire televised basketball game that doesn't involved the Cleveland Cavaliers or Ohio State Buckeyes. So I've seen some excruciating games.

First off, once again, the Cavs' shooting is abysmal. Daniel Gibson's hot hand has cooled significantly, to the tune of two points (granted, he had defensive whiz Jacque Vaughn stifling him most of the night). LeBron James still can't find his stroke from anywhere but the charity stripe (somehow leads all scorers despite going 9 of 23 from the floor, missed all five from the arc, but hey, 7 of 8 from the line!). As a whole, the Cavs shot 37% from the field and a pathetic 16% from three-point range. The only players with a shooting percentage of 50% or better for Cleveland was Anderson Varejao. And he was only 2 for 4.

Secondly, is the entire sports world against Cleveland? All night, all I heard were ABC announcers siding with the Spurs all over the place (Manu Ginobli's charge for one-- Varejao had his feet set, so quit whining). The officials repeatedly missed fouls on the Cavs from outside the arc (one obvious one against Gibson, one against LeBron, and of course LeBron's would-be game tying shot with about two ticks on the clock). While the calls in the paint were much better tonight, that doesn't excuse the blind eye turned toward the outside shots. Give us those fouls and this is a two to six point Cavs victory rather than a three point loss. I don't want to blame the refs too much here, but let's be serious. They influenced this game, and a lot.

Thirdly, the third quarter continues to be the Cavs' major sticking point. Tonight they managed to hold the Spurs to only 15 points, the second fewest they've scored in any quarter in this series (fewest: 14 points in the fourth quarter of Game 2). The bad news? They scored only 12, fewest scored by either team in any quarter of this series. The Cavs' defense provided them with a golden opportunity, and they choked it away.

Last, turnovers. While the Spurs made more, 45% of the Cavs' turnovers were made by one player-- number 23 himself, LeBron James. This will go down in history as a series LeBron would rather forget.

Granted, not everything was bad. The defense was great. The Cavs finally controlled the boards (48 rebounds, 15 of which were offensive; compare to the Spurs' 41 with 7 offensive). They limited Duncan at both ends of the court (14 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks) but should have taken advantage of his foul trouble more than they did. They effectively shut down Ginobli, limiting him to 3 points and an oh-fer from the field.

And I'll be the one to say LeBron did the right thing in passing up the shot to Anderson Varejao. All night, the shots weren't falling. Varejao was the only Cavalier shooting even 50% from the field. If he's open and you aren't and his shot is falling while yours isn't, you HAVE to let him take it. Taking bad shots and missing them only makes you look selfish, and that's not LeBron's game. This may be his team, but a true leader knows when to shoot and when to pass it up.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas showed once again why he may be the most underrated big guy in the game (at least in this Cleveland homer's eyes). Not only did he put up 12 points, but he controlled the glass when he was in the ballgame: 18 boards, 10 on the offensive side (granted, with the number of shots the Cavs were missing, they had plenty of opportunities for offensive boards). He added in a block and a steal while staying out of foul trouble. While no one will confuse him for Tim Duncan or Shaquille O'Neal anytime soon, that doesn't matter. When was the last time anyone gave Ilgauskas credit? He's flown under the radar for some time now, thanks to injuries early in his career, a poor team in the middle of his career, and now, the massive shadow of LeBron James.

Looking ahead to Game 4, this series is over for the Cavs. Four little letters, O-V-E-R. If you have faith left after this, you must not have experienced The Catch, The Rocky Colavito Trade, Red Right 88, The Shot, The Fumble, The Drive, The Mesa, or The Great Playoff Choke of January 2003 first-hand. The Cavs are simply playing for pride now, playing not to get swept. All 9 teams with a 3-0 lead and home-court advantage in the NBA Finals have won the series. 5 of those teams pulled off the sweep. What do the Cavs do? Just go out and play their game. Tonight was the only night I feel the Spurs really looked like a truly superior team. The Cavs did a reasonable job of containing the Big Three of Duncan, Ginobli, and Tony Parker (limiting them to a combined 34 points), and someone else stepped up, namely Bruce Bowen (by the way, did anyone notice every shot he hit was from three?). But once again, change those foul calls and cut the crap with the ill-advised three-pointers that AREN'T FALLING, and this is a pretty even game, maybe even a good advantage to the Cavs.

Leave with some degree of honor, prove you belong here, or make history, it all requires one thing: a win at home on Thursday.

cavs are one of the worst teams to ever make the finals.

They aren't one of the worst, they're just playing like it.  Get a couple shots here and there to fall instead of rimming out and this is a 2-1 series (and could be 2-1 either way), rather than 3-0.  Their defense has been great, but you can't do much if the shots don't go.

try naming one team that is worse. maybe the NJ nets, but i don't think so.

this is the only time i can remember a team making it to the finals and everyone clearly understanding that they are not good enough and need to add a few pieces to help the star player.

they were heading to the finals and there was basically no disagreement that they are not really that close to being a championship team. and that lebron needed signifiantly more help than his current support.

Who did the Sixers have other than Iverson in 2001?  As far as I know, that was the only team to make it to the NBA Finals with their leading scorer having more than two and a half times more points than their second-leading scorer.

Or the 1999 Knicks who really had nothing besides Patrick Ewing and an on-the-decline Larry Johnson?

I'm not saying the Cavs don't need more help, I just don't think they're anywhere near the worst to play in the Finals.

the sixers team in 2001 would have destroyed this cavs team. they were great defensively, and had players that would make lebron work hard for his points. specifically, who did they have? larry brown. he would have out-coached this bum and the sixers would take them in 5 or 6.

they faced arguably the greatest team ever in the finals. and went to LA and took game 1. games 2 and 3 were very close as well.

in fact, there were probably three teams in the east that year better than this cavs team - toronto and the bucks as well.

The Bucks?  Seriously?  The 25 games behind Detroit Milwaukee Bucks?  The Milwaukee Bucks who went 1-15 against teams in their division?  Really?  Are the Celtics and Grizzlies better too?

As for Toronto, well, they couldn't get past New Jersey, and Cleveland had little trouble with the Nets.  Next!

As for Philly having great defense, this Cavs team is right there with them-- a team built on defense that can't shoot worth a damn in the Finals.  And is that Larry Brown the same one who could only manage one NBA Title in 23 seasons as a head coach and can't stick with a team for more than six seasons?  The one who couldn't take the best basketball players in the world to any more than a bronze in 2004?

As for Mike Brown being a "bum," he's in his second season as an NBA head coach.  He won a title as an assistant in San Antonio (that team's defensive expert, I might add), and has led the Cavs to the Finals.  How many other coaches out there took over a team that missed the playoffs and made them Conference Champs in just two years?

re-read my post. i was talking about teams from 2001.

the cavs are an average team. i don't know why its so hard for you to accept.

if they get swept, they will go down as the worst team to have ever made it to the finals.

their coach is an idiot. lebron still has alot to learn - he disappears for long stretches of games. they have no one else even worth mentioning.

There's still no way they'll be listed as the worst.  Top 10 worst maybe.  But not the worst.

For the record, here's the 10 best and 10 worst NBA Finals teams since the NBA-ABA merger according to ESPN's John Hollinger.

BEST
1. 1996 Chicago Bulls
2. 1987 Los Angeles Lakers
3. 1986 Boston Celtics
4. 1991 Chicago Bulls
5. 1997 Chicago Bulls
6. 1985 Los Angeles Lakers
7. 1992 Chicago Bulls
8. 1999 San Antonio Spurs
9. 1980 Philadelphia 76'ers
10. 1989 Detroit Pistons

WORST
1. 1981 Houston Rockets (only team with a losing record to make the finals)
2. 1999 New York Knicks (as I mentioned)
3. 1978 Seattle Supersonics (don't forget they had to turn around from a 5-17 start)
4. 1979 Washington Bullets (only team to have a losing record in the postseason and make the Finals)
5. 2002 New Jersey Nets (as you mentioned)
6. 1977 Philadelphia 76'ers
7. 2001 Philadelphia 76'ers (as I said)
8. 1990 Portland Trailblazers (outscored badly in the playoffs)
9. 2004 Los Angeles Lakers (the dynasty dies)
10. 1978 Washington Bullets (most regular season losses of any NBA Champion)

I applied the same standards used to compile this list to what the Cavs have done (obviously not counting any unplayed playoff games).  Using this, the Cavs would rate better than the 2001 Sixers, and worse than the 1990 Trailblazers, therefore the 8th worst all-time.

Like I said: not the worst, maybe Top 10 worst.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Finalists1-10

Cavs are sitting at 149.3 points on this scale.  The number would only slightly change for the worse if the Cavs lose Game 4 by more than 3 points, or for the better should they win a game before bowing out.  In calculating the Cavs, I used a loss in Game 4 by 3 points in their score.

This explains a little.  Looks like LeBron's been a bit distracted from things off the court.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ar18p1YPJTEm.SZC4EWvXY.8vLYF?slug=ap-nbafinals-lebronsbaby&prov=ap&type=lgns

Congrats to him and his girlfriend!

NBA need to reseed.


This is horrible every other year getting a bad NBA finals.

this is an idiotic formula that makes no sense. comparing wins and losses in the regular season and playoffs is practically useless.

is gives teams credit for playing in WEAK conferences. the balance of talent has never been this lopsided.

comparing teams in the 70's and 80's to teams in the current, diluted, over-expanded league just doesn't make any sense. you're essentially penalizing teams for going beating other GREAT teams by small margins in 7 games.

Idiotic or not in terms of older teams, there are still three post-1990 teams that are ranked worse than the Cavs.

And if you can come up with a better formula, then let's see it.

you can't use a formula. that's my point! anyone that understands sports knows that margin of victory is an absolute meaningless stat. does history care that tom brady won 3 SBs by 3 points each, while aikman won 3 SB in blowouts??? No! brady is clearly the better QB and the NE team is clearly the better team.

it's a judgement call with many factors that need to be considered. and in the end, it is an opinion.

but i think many b-ball fans would agree that the cavs are one of the worst teams to ever make the finals - easily top 5. AND the eastern conference was the weakest its ever been this year.

LeBROOM, baby!!!!

Those New England Super Bowls were with teams built on defense first, while those Dallas teams were offensive powerhouses.  BIG difference between those two teams.  That argument comes down to which is more important: strong D and an average offense, or vice versa?  As those Super Bowls proved, either one can win.  You can't really compare Brady to Aikman as Brady has nowhere near the offensive weapons Aikman had (until maybe this year), while Aikman lacked the team defense Brady had.


And yet you insist on trying to find some way to claim my OPINION (as you just said) is wrong.  Opinions aren't right, they aren't wrong.  They just are.  At least I'm trying to find some quantitative analysis rather than going fully on the qualitative.


I'm still insisting it's top 10.


It's been in just as bad of shape (if not worse) in the past.  The late 1970's come to mind.

Give it a year or two.  Shaq, Elvin Hayes, Earl Monroe, Elgin Baylor, Wes Unseld, and James Worthy all got swept in their first NBA Finals.  Even Magic Johnson was swept in the Finals twice in his career.

Congratulations San Antonio Spurs for capturing the fourth title in nine seasons!

I love how the word ''sweep'' sounds!!!

Vote ''C'' for the MVP!! Manu Ginobili and his 27 points say it all!!!  :peace:

Robert HOrry should've won MVP cause if it wasnt for his Bullshit pussy ass cheap foul on Steve Nash, phoenix would be sitting here as champs.

Or, if Nash had not fake flopped so much his team mates would not have left the bench. Did you notice how Nash was ready to lie there and writh in pain, until he saw the beginning of a fight and then he lept up and was suddenly ok.

don't get me wrong, I like Nash and respect him as a tough player, but I am tired of the fake flopping that goes on today in the NBA. It demeans the game and makes them look like pussies. And the Argentinean on the Spurs is the most guilty of flopping of anyone in the NBA.

Dude, I hear ya loud and clear. 

Vlade Divac was the poster boy of floppers.

Wow...there's 2 thing I never thought I'd see in the same sentence:

Vlade Divac and poster boy.

:)

PS: I agree.....though I think ole Bill Laimbeer might win out in a head to head battle.

Flopping is an art, and Manu is very talented doing that. If you know how to do it correctly, and you dont abuse of it, its a very useful move, and I also think that gives the match spectacularity.

And Manu learned to flop in the NBA. He never used to do that playing in Argentina or Europe...

Give him the MVP, he was robbed once, give him what he deserves this time  :beer:

Bill Simmons (aka the sports guy) has an extraordinary understanding of the nba. here's what he wrote in today's column (discussing the upcoming draft)...

We know who they're taking because it's the No Balls Association and nobody would ever dare pass up a franchise center with a ceiling (Greg Oden) for a franchise forward with no ceiling (Kevin Durant). That lack of originality explains why the league is so screwed up and a limited team like the Cavs could become the worst Finals team since the '59 Lakers.

The only reason you're quoting him is because he agrees with you.  If he calls them one of the five worst, you wouldn't care.

I stand by my belief that the 2001 Sixers were worse (but as a Philly fan, you'd never admit to that) as well as the 1999 Knicks.  The one Finals game they won was all Iverson.  Knicks were a #8 seed who should have been out long before they ever got to the Finals, the team Steve Kerr ranks as the worst finalists ever (and I'd take Steve Kerr's word as a former NBA player to mean a LOT more than Bill Simmons, who has played just as many NBA games as all the members of this board combined, possibly fewer).  Then of course, the 1981 Houston Rockets and their losing record in the regular season.  I could go on.  If you think this team is the worst ever to make the Finals, you're nuts, that windbag Bill Simmons included.

As an aside, only three players ever have been swept in their first NBA Finals and then gone on to win one with the same team: Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, and James Worthy.  So either LeBron will join some elite company with the Cavs, or he'll win one after the Lakers sign him to a $950M deal.

the 2001 sixers are not in the bottom 5. any educated hoops fan knows that. even that stupid formula you posted (which lists the 2004 lakers as one of the worst?!?!) puts that team out of the bottom 5.

here's another opinion...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/070606&sportCat=nba

The 2004 Lakers ARE one of the worst.  Never before has a team full of so many big names underperformed so badly (with the exception of the 2004 USA Men's Olympic team).

Face it, you're a Philly homer.  The only "educated" basketball fans to you are the ones who go along with your homer views.

And I like how you conveniently skipped over the fact that this guy in your most recent article says the 2001 Sixers were just as bad of a team who just happened to get an MVP year from Iverson and a good coaching job.  News flash: coaching only goes so far.  A coach can't get out on the court and play the game for you.  Two below-average teams, two lame results.  You give the Cavs Larry Brown, they still get swept.  Give the Sixers Mike Brown and they still might win a game.

stick to hockey cause you don't know what you're talking about. your lack of understanding of the importance of coaching in b-ball is the proof. how do you think the nuggets pulled the upset this year? coaching was a major factor.

that lakers team was incredible. they beat the spurs (smack in the middle of their reign as a dynasty) and they were HEAVY favorites to beat the pistons. they lost to an inspired, defensive, and well-coached team. it was a major upset of a proven winner.

and for the record, i am hardly a "homer." i love philly sports team but have no problem calling them out when necessary. i am not blinded by my love for them; in fact, most philly fans have high standards and pretty negative views of their teams - they are usually quick to point out their teams' shortcomings. 

It's funny that someone doesn't want to be labeled a homer while commenting on a Bill Simmons piece.  Bill Simmons is one of the biggest reasons people outside of New England hate the Red Sox.

The fact you go against all logic, evidence, and numbers, and refuse to anoint that Sixers team as one of the worst Finals teams ever speaks volumes.  Homer.

As for Philly fans having high expectations and feeling free to criticize their teams, it may be true for the Eagles and Phillies, but I have never seen a blinder group of hockey fans than 90% of the Flyers' fans I've encountered.  I swear, most of them I've met in the past ten years acted like Lindros and Leclair were some sort of invincible demi-gods and that Brashear was god's gift to the world of hockey fights.

Once again, a good coach can only go so far and do so much for a team, no matter what sport we're playing here.  I'm not trying to underestimate Mike Brown's shortcomings.  He's clueless when it comes to creating a decent offense for a team (if he could do something with that offense, the Cavs played good enough defense that they could have won this series).  Maybe I'm stupid, but I doubt Brown tells the guys, "Just kind of stand there for 18 seconds and then try to make a pass."  Getting them to run the offense is his responsibility, but I think it took a beating like this to get them to realize they can't just "out-athlete" every other team.

Frankly, I like Mike Brown. He needs to develop an offensive scheme or bring in an assistant who has a clue on offense though. Overall, I'm ecstatic about this basketball season, even though "The Sweep" will now be added to "The Shot," "The Fumble," "The Drive," "The Catch," "The Mesa," etc.

As an aside, which would you rather be: the worst coach to make the Finals (and do it in only your second season), or the best coach never to make it?

you're right about SOME flyers fans. there is a large, die-hard segment of fans that are blind to reality. but most are not that way. 

the '01 sixers were not a classic team or anything, but you even said yourself they had arguably the best coach of all time, one of the top 50 players of all time IN HIS PRIME, and they played exceptional defense.

the '01 sixers had the following:

- MVP
- coach of the year
- defensive player of the year
- 6th man of the year

they were the class of the East, the #1 seed, and lived up to it in some of the most exciting eastern conference playoffs of this decade.

this cavs team is simply no comparison. they're one superstar is unproven and has not yet lived up to the hype.

but for some reason you want to hold this cavs team in high regard. you're on your own, and we will have to agree to disagree.

Dude, I'm a Lakers fan, but that team didn't deserve to get out of the second round against the Spurs.  Derek Fisher's lucky shot changed all of that.

They were a VERY disappointing team, lasted only five games against what was perceived to be a "weak" Eastern conference team.

you call fisher's shot lucky. i call it CLUTCH. and that's not what "changed" that series. LA coming back and winning 2 straight in san antonio after being down 2-0 changed the series.

and your making my point about the lakers. you were disappointed with them cause expectations were sky high - championship or bust. those expectations were legitimate because they were a good team.

i give detroit a ton of credit for coming up with a perfect game plan, and executing it perfectly. those finals were a major upset. most didn't think detroit had a prayer.

They tied the series at home.  Lots of teams do that.

Clutch is another word for lucky.  .4 seconds?  There has to be some luck involved in that.

They just completely imploded in Detroit.  We're talking blowout losses.  And if Kobe hadn't sent the game to overtime in game 2, it would have been a clean sweep for Detroit.

you're right. i forgot the lakers won their division and had home court.

this discussion started because of my belief that the cavs are an average team.

if the 2004 lakers played the 2007 cavs, the lakers would sweep them. shaq would score 40 with his eyes closed.   

Obviously.  I don't think there's anyone who would argue the Cavs would win this one.  Maybe they'd take a game, but not the whole series.

And for the record, I never argued that the 2004 Lakers were worse than the 2007 Cavs.

Durant or Oden.

who would you take? who will have the better career?

Durant.

Portland, see: David Bowie

Mal Brossard.. your avatar sux :no: .............................................................. :hihi:

Yeah, it just doesn't go far enough, does it?

I'd take Oden, but I'm also an OSU fan.  However, it seems dominant big men win championships now, so I'd say that's a good reason to take him.

1999: Robinson and Duncan
2000: Shaq
2001: Shaq
2002: Shaq
2003: Duncan
2004: Pistons didn't really have one
2005: Duncan
2006: Shaq
2007: Duncan

exactly
they did have ben wallace.. although he's not that big he's still ben wallace

i think it's a tough call. a dominant (or at least very good) center is basically a requirement to legitimately compete for a title.

still, i think durant could end up being the better player, and potentially something really special.

i'd be thrilled if i were a seattle fan and had to "settle" for durant (if portland takes oden).

Definitely.  I'd love to have the "problem" of having to choose between the two.

Just so long as the Cavs don't end up with Joakim Noah.

Mal, while your theory holds SOME water, it's basically two men who were drafted in the 90's. 

I still think Durant will be a better player and have a better career than Oden.  Oden may love the game, but he was sort of pushed into it because of his height.  And he's had an injury, so that might play a factor into his career.

what you got against Noah? :hihi:

He's an ugly motherfucker.

I'd take Durant over "Oden" who I'm convinced is really Robert Parish inexplicably convincing everyone he's only 18 years old.

I'd take Durant too... that's why Seattle's in the best position, they don't have to struggle with the decision of who to take #1... and they get the player who has a chip on his shoulder for not being picked first.

LMAO!!!   :rofl:  Steele, nice one.  Seriously, he looks like he's 35 years old!

Same with Lebron, he looks so much older than his age.  If Lebron looked like Jordan, I think his marketability would be even greater.

I was reading an article about him this week and he told a story about a heckler who screamed at him, "Hey Greg, what was World War II like?"

Oden, the 445 year old, goes  #1, Durant, the 18 year  old, goes #2 in the NBA draft. The Blazers will make the playoffs next year.

so grant hill sign with the suns..



are someone gonna start a 2007/08 thread?

Why is no one talking about  the ref who was betting on games he refereed? He apparently has low level mob  connections. This is HUGE and calls into question the basic integrity of the entire  league, not to mention playoffs. The ref apparently has a big gambling problem that  the NBA knew about, but did nothing. And apparently the ref is willing to talk,  maybe to name other refs and players. How deep this goes will be fascinating. And now  the ref in question is  getting "threatening" phone calls. Ever wonder  why your team got hit with so many fouls  and the other team did not? Enter: the mob. And you think Vegas is EVER going to see a major league sports franchise? Ha ha.

yeah i've read about that too.. man that must be why chicago were doing so good in the 90's  :hihi:

Kevin Garnett to the celtics! they are gonna have a cool team this year

What do you mean?  They just traded their whole team for Kevin Garnett...  :hihi:

They will have 3 cool star players though, but these guys will need to log some big minutes as I don't see their bench helping them out much.

Eh, as a Celtics fan, I think they got good value out of those guys.

Jefferson, Green, and Gomes are the real "losses".  Those guys could have been a solid foundation (and will be in Minnesota) of a good rebuilding team..  But they need time (5 to 7 years) to come into their own in the league.  Telfair and Ratliff will always be role players, and, to be completely honest, there's tons of them out there in the NBA. Easily replaceable. Ratliff was an EXPENSIVE role player, so was likely sent simply to free up room for Garnett's salary. That, and lets face it, nobody knows how he'll come back after the back surgery.

With Garnett, the Celts go from "eh" to "scary" in one player.  NONE of the 3 real "losses" could come out and have the impact Garnett will in Boston.  I think BOTH teams came away better than going in.....one of the few "win win" trades I've seen in the NBA.

There are some flaws with the trade for Boston....

- Their bench will obviously not be very strong
- These guys will need to log serious minutes without getting injured
- Doc Rivers is coaching, will he do a good job?
- They are going for a push now, but they still aren't better than the powerhouse Western teams / won't get the Championship
- They've only got a few good years with these guys
- If and when they do make the playoffs, is the supporting cast experienced enough to get them past the first round?  Can they beat experienced Detroit?  Up and coming Chicago?  A healthy Miami?

It's going to be a looooong season for the Big 3, but on the other hand, Boston had to do something!  It's guaranteed they aren't finishing with a worse record than last year.    :hihi:


Good news:  David Stern has a great distraction from the referee scandal!

1) We'll see on the bench....first up, the season hasn't started yet. ;)  Second, we'll see how the draft picks fit in.  I think they'll be OK..certainly as good as they were on that front during the "glory years" in the 80's.

2) Garnett and Allen are workhorses.  Pierce can be one to, when his attitude isn't getting in the way (and I don't think it will, now).  Now, nothing precludes freak injury....but at least they have history of being able to put in big numbers of minutes.  So it's not like these guys are being thrown into that, cold.

3)Was going to be an issue no matter what...I don't think the trade makes it worse, because at least now he's got the talent to succeed.  Of course, if he fails.....you know it's coaching.

4) You never know until the season plays out.  By and large, I'd agree.  But I'd also say they're better than Cleveland was last year....I'd say, on paper, they're probably better than ANYONE in the East but a healthy Miami, and even then they stack up pretty well.  Head to head (ie: playoffs) they just need someone big to lean on Shaq.   They may not be as good (yet..we'll see what they add...you know they'll add something, just to fill the 4 empty roster spots) as the Western powerhouses, but they're good enough to be competitive with them.

5) True, but "young" hasn't worked so far either.  And I think Danny realizes his ass is on the line.  So he needs to find a way to win today, and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.  I mean...remember, Garnett may have been in the league for 10 years, but he's only 31.  I wouldn't doubt we get a good 5 to 7 years from him.  Sir Walter Ray (did I mention I'm a UCONN fan, too?) is only 32, and Pierce is only 29.  They're pretty much in their primes, right now.  With the crew they traded, you'd be WAITING around 5 years for them to get to their primes.....now you have guys who are proven good in their primes.  Seems a fair trade off.   Besides, if McHale stays in Minn....it's a great farm system for the Celts. :)

6) I think so.  I mean, their bench is not LOADED, but the role players are good enough to play the roles they need to play (ie: shut up, play defense, pass the ball to Allen or Pierce, and stand around and watch them shoot or pass to KG).  You can't double team 3 guys...heck, you're hardpressed to double 2.  So whoever steps into the roleplayers positions, looking at who's on the roster NOW, will likely suffice enough to take them deep into the playoffs.  Besides, if they play well all season, and get home court.  the leprechauns will make sure the other team all contracts botchelism while flocks of pigeons divebomb the floor on their every possession. :)

They are going to sell tickets, move merchandise, get nationally televised games... which is all a win for them.  I don't see the championship coming though.  The Spurs/Suns/Mavs are too well-rounded.

Pilferk, if you had to choose... would you prefer the Celts to have gotten an Oden or Durant pick, or be in the situation they are in now?

It sorta depends on what you mean.  If you mean "Oden OR Durant" to Garnett AND Allen....no.  I perfer the current set up.

If you mean simply to Garnett? I'd prefer Oden, but not Durant.....mostly becauase with Allen and Pierce, you need someone down low.  But that's like saying "would your rather win 100 million in the  lottery or simply make 200k a year at your job", if you catch my drift.  One is pure luck, the other is characterized by work.  Both are pretty appealing.

The NBA lottery is a system of marginalized luck, which is what makes it so fan friendly.  Barring hitting the lottery, though, I think they've done VERY well since draft day.

They'll just load up the roster with kids from the summer league team.

Expect a lot of new faces come training camp.

Do the Celtics have a D-League team?