Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Today when I got on the internet I was presented with a remembrance of the late Kurt Cobain. I guess it has been 10 years since Kurt was found on April 5, 1994. Spin magazine has also come out with their latest addition dedicated to Kurt and Nirvana. Funny to read Spin because it talks about what Kurt might have done if he had stayed around.

Made me think of what Axl is doing now.

It is funny how both bands kind of ended in 1994. Now both have about the same number of albums in catalog. With many similarities worthy of mention:



Guns N? Roses                   Nirvana

Appetite for Destruction  (#1)   -Debut Album-      Bleach (#89)
Use Your Illusion 1 (#2)      -Released 1991-      Nevermind (#1)
Use Your Illusion 2 (#1)      -Second big Release-   In Utero (#1)
The Spaghetti Incident (#4)   -Covers Album-      Insecticide (#39)
Lies (#2)         -Acoustic/Live-      MTV Unplugged (#1)
LiveERA 87-93 (#42)      -Live album-      From the Muddy Banks (#1)
Greatest Hits (#3)         -Greatest Hits      Nirvana (#3)


Both Greatest Hits have 14 Tracks:

1. You Know Your Right         1. Welcome to the Jungle      
2. About a Girl               2. Sweet Child O? Mine            
3. Been a Son               3. Patience
4. Sliver               4. Paradise City
5. Smells Like Teen Spirit         5. Knockin? on Heaven Door
6. Come as You Are            6. Civil War
7. Lithium               7. You Could Be Mine
8. In Bloom               8. Don?t Cry
9. Heart Shaped Box            9. November Rain
10. Pennyroyal Tea            10. Live and Let Die
11. Rape Me               11. Yesterdays
12. Dumb               12. Ain?t It Fun
13. All Apologies            13. Since I Don?t Have You
14. The Man Who Sold the World         14. Sympathy for the Devil


Axl vs. Kurt

Then again some would say there is no competition here. I have always wondered whether a line was drawn in the sand back in 1992.

Whatever the game is ????.it is still interesting to absorb the above information.

The similarities are interesting

Yes, they are but they must be jus coincidences

There is one great difference: Axl is a fuckin genius and a guy that loved every minute of his life,while Kurt was a mediocre musician having a really hard time on this planet.

Not to be rude but do u know any of axl's history? He was abused as a child, mentally, physically and emotionally, he had a rough time with the police as a teenager. I wouldn't call that loving every minute of his life :no:

Sorry,I meant to say that he enjoyed every miute of fame,of life at the top:parties,women,stuff like that. While Kurt was killed by fame.He couldn't handle the pressure

It's interesting about the albums!  :beer:

I think both are cool guys!

Kurt kick started Grunge! Axl wrote SCOM N' Nov.Rain!

Just imagine though rock without either of these guys!

Jeeeeeeeez No SCOM!  :nervous: OMG!  :confused:

We're lucky aren't we!

{What about my beloved Sex Pistols!!!!!! Noooooo!!!}

Okay I'm wonderin if anyone can tell me just what the hell happened between Guns N' Roses and Kurt Cobain i always here different side and i wanna know every detail if someone could inform me plz!

Axl Roses  :confused: :confused: :confused:

Hey, just take a look around... in Dead Horse section you can find it...

Hey, at least he didn't say Axel Roses.    :hihi:

That one is really annoying.

Lol :rofl:

That really pisses me off too

alright ppl i meant axl rose i did it on accident s back the fuck off! bigger fan hte any of u

Settle down Beavis, as said above, look for your answers in the "Dead Horse" section, plenty of info there..

Kurt wanted to suck Axl's penis, but Axl don't let him do it, SO, Kurt get pissed off and go out saying a lot of shit about axl and guns n' roses...

Really.........i thought it was a bit different than that ;D

I just went trough all 13 pages here the only thing i could find was this: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=11599 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=11599)

But that's not what he wanted to know...

So I did a search on "kurt" and couldn't find any topic explaining his question!

Prove me wrong please, cuz I wanna know the story 2!!

I wont go into details but it was basically Cobain slamming GNR on da press and turned down GNR offer to tour with them. Axl got pissed and in the MTV awards the bitch told Axl as a joke to be the godfather of his son and Axl told Cobain to shut the bitch up or he would beat him up or whatever.

This started in the VR forum, because they played one of Nirvana songs at the their show, but I think it belongs in this forum.

My question is what is your opinion on Nirvana and Kurt Cobain and how could the remaining members of GNR ever play a Nirvana song?

For those who may not know....Nirvana absolutely hated Guns N' Roses. They used to mock them all the time.

Kurt Cobain hated everything Guns N' Roses stood for. He was once asked if there was anything he liked about GNR and he said "You know, I can't think of a damn thing". He said they were talentless and were homophobic, racist and sexist and it disgusted him.

There were also incidents between them at the MTV awards where they told stories about how Axl and Duff were threatening to beat them up backstage and they were running around with their (Duff) security guys trying find them (Nirvana) so they could beat them up....but they way it was told, they were totally mocking them.

And finally just to get the point across of how deeply the hatred ran, Kurt Cobain told a story about how they were playing at a benefit show to fight against Homophobia and they started mockingly to play Sweet Child...and a kid jumped up on stage and pleaded with him to stop, saying that both GNR and Nirvana were great and Cobain told him "Sorry, but you can't possibly be on their side and be on our side too".

So in light of all that, how could any member of GNR from back then now play Nirvana music?

And what is your thoughts on what they (Cobain mostly) said? Any truth to it?

Personally I think he was right with what he said about the social issue stuff (it's pretty hard to argue that GNR weren't homophobic or sexist...but some people here probably like that GNR were that way) but I obviously think he was wrong about them being talentless...I don't know how anyone could call anybody that is responsible for the song Estranged, "talentless".

Your forgetting the fact that Duff and Kurt Cobain hung out on a plane together in 1994, in the weeks before his death.  They happenned to be on the same flight to Seattle, got talking and realised that they had mutual friends and a few things in comman, i.e. drug addiction problems.  

Besides Negative Creep is a great song and i really don't think Slash, Duff and Matt care about stupid grudges from 13 years ago...

Check the "Dead Horse" section JamieG, plenty of info for you there..

If you're so sure of that, post the links...

We know.  It's been discussed numerous times.  

KC dissed GnR in many print interviews and televised interviews that I saw, I mean before the question was even asked he would go out of his way to bring them up.  So did Courtney Love.  But whatever, that was then.  

I really don't believe Axl is or was as homophobic as KC believed him to be.  And really the level of hatred that was leveled between the bands suggests a competition of sorts.  Nirvana believed they were punks (which is highly debateble, especially with hindsight) and they were taking on the big, bad, far less socially sensitive GnR.  And it escalated from there.  Also, KC had been victimized by bullies and transferred that on to Axl imo.  I've said this before that they had some similar experiences but reacted in different ways, Kurt became a sensitive boy flag waver and Axl tried on a tough guy persona.

Slash and Duff just shrugged it off I guess, which is big of them considering KC called the whole band not just Axl, talentless and basically stupid.  I wouldn't have covered his song, but I'm not them.  

Sorry, I know it can be annoying for regulars to see topics that have previously discussed started again, but I haven't been to this site in quite a while and I recently read some of the old Kurt Cobain interviews and wanted to discuss this topic, and I didn't feel like searching through all the archives to see if it has been discussed in the past.


I find that intriguing and I think you're on to something with that. If you just knew about their personal history growing up, you might think that they might relate, but instead Cobain hated Axl. I think what you said transfering some of that onto Axl is definitely true.

One thing I totally disagree with though, is saying that Axl wasn't or isn't homophobic. How can you such a thing or deny it? Hey, I think Axl is a brilliant song writer and there are things I like about his personality, but c'mon, he's as homophobic as you can get.

Yeah, Evil Ash, I just went to that section and I couldn't find much either. I found one thread that touched on it briefly and the one that you posted the link to, which was comparing record sales.

Anyway, getting back to the real topic, not sure if you ever saw it, but this is the interview where much of it comes from. Straight from the horses mouth.

http://www.nirvana-music.com/text/advocateint0292.html

[[AD: I read the liner notes you wrote on Incesticide. I've never seen somebody on a major label say, "If you're a racist, a sexist, a homophobe, we don't want you to buy our records."

KC: That's been the biggest problem that I've had being in this band. I know there are those people out in the audience, and there's not much I can do about it. I can talk about those issues in interviews - I think it's pretty obvious that we're against the homophobes and the sexists and the racists, but when "Teen Spirit" first came out, mainstream audiences were under the assumption that we were just like Guns N' Roses.

Then our opinions started showing up in interviews. And then things like Chris and I kissing on Saturday Night Live. We weren't trying to be subversive or punk rock; we were just doing something insane and stupid at the last minute. I think now that our opinions our out in the open, a lot of kids who bought our record regret knowing anyhing about us. [Laughs] There is a war going on in the high schools now between Nirvana kids and Guns N' Roses kids. It's really cool. I'm really proud to be a part of that, because when I was in high school, I dressed like a punk rocker and people would scream "Devo!" at me-because Devo infiltrated the mainstream. Out of all the bands who came from the underground and actually made it in the mainstream, Devo is the most subversive and challenging of all. They're just awesome. I love them.

AD: Is there anything about Guns N' Roses' music you like?

KC: I can't think of a damn thing. I can't even waste my time on that band, because they're so obviously pathetic and untalented. I used to think that everything in the mainstream pop world was crap, but now that some underground bands have been signed with majors, I take Guns N' Roses as more of an offense. I have to look into it more: They're really talentless people, and they write crap music, and they're the most popular rock band on the earth right now. I can't believe it.

AD: Didn't Axl Rose say something nasty to you at the MTV Video Music Awards in September?

KC: They actually tried to beat us up. Courtney and I were with the baby in the eating area backstage, and Axl walked by. So Courtney yelled, "Axl! Axl, come over here!" We just wanted to say hi to him--we think he's a joke, but we just wanted to say something to him. So I said, "Will you be the godfather of our child?" I don't know what had happened before that to piss him off, but he took his aggressions out on us and began screaming bloody murder.

These were his words: "You shut your bitch up, or I'm taking you down to the pavement." [laughs] Everyone around us just burst out into tears of laughter. She wasn't even saying anything mean, you know? So I turned to Courtney and said, "Shut up, bitch!" And everyone laughed and he left. So I guess I did what he wanted me to do--be a man. [laughs]

AD: Does he remind you of guys you went to high school with?

KC: Absolutely. Really confused, fucked-up guys. There's not much hope for them.

AD: When he was singing about "immigrants and faggots," people were excusing it by saying, "Well, he's from Indiana-"

KC: Oh, well, that's OK then. [Laughs] Insane. Later, after we played our show and were walking back to our trailer, the Guns N' Roses entourage came walking toward us. They have at least 50 bodyguards apiece: huge, gigantic, brain-dead oafs ready to kill for Axl at all times. [Laughs] They didn't see me, but they surrounded Chris, and Duff [McKagan of Guns N' Roses] wanted to beat Chris up, and the bodyguards started pushing Chris around. He finally escaped, but throughout the rest of the evening, there was a big threat of either Guns N' Roses themselves or their goons beating us up. We had to hide out.

Since then, every time Axl has played a show he's said some comment about me and Courtney. When he was in Seattle, he said "Nirvana would rather stay home and shoot drugs with their bitch wives than tour with us." [Laughs] That's why there's this big feud in most of the high schools. It's hilarious. He is insane, though. I was scared. I couldn't possibly beat him up; I know he would beat me up if he had the chance.

AD: How do you feel about Guns N' Roses fans coming to see you?

KC: Well, when we played that No on 9 benefit in Portland, I said something about Guns N' Roses. Nothing nasty - I think I said, "And now, for our next song, 'Sweet Child o' Mine.'" But some kid jumped onstage and said, "Hey, man, Guns N' Roses plays awesome music, and Nirvana plays awesome music. Let's just get along and work things out, man!"

And I just couldn't help but say, "No, kid, you're really wrong. Those people are total sexist jerks, and the reason we're playing this show is to fight homophobia in a real small way. The guy is a fucking sexist and a racist and a homophobe, and you can't be on his side and be on our side. I'm sorry that I have to divide this up like this, but it's something you can't ignore. And besides they can't write good music." [Laughs]

AD: You know, you were probably taking money from people who were voting yes on 9 - but they really wanted to see Nirvana.

KC: [Laughs] Right! Chris went to a Guns N' Roses concert when they played here with Metallica a couple of months ago, and he went backstage, and there were these two bimbo girls who looked like they walked out of a Warrant video. They were sitting on the couch in hopes of sucking Axl's dick or something, and one of them said, "Chris, we saw you at that No on 9 benefit! We're voting yes on 9! You kissed Kurt on the lips! That was disgusting!" [Laughs] To know that we affect people like that-it's kind of funny. The sad thing is that there's no penetrating them. After all that, after all the things those girls had seen us do, that was the one thing that sticks in their minds....

KC: Our personal expenses over the last year-we made a million dollars, of which $380,000 went to taxes, $300,000 went to a house, the rest went to doctors and lawyers, and our personal expernses were like $80,000. That's including car rentals, food, everything. That's not very much; that's definitely not what Axl spends a year. She insisted on a prenuptial agreement; no one knows that. So there's definitely not manipulation going on in this relationship at all.]]

I don't know if he's a homophobe...I mean lets not forget his 2 biggest idol's growing up were Elton John and Freddy Mercury.  That would be pretty weird for a homophobe.

I'm betting that he liked their music before he knew anything about them personally.

It's sort of like what Kurt Cobain was talking about in that interview, people who liked Nirvana's music than finding out what they think about these issues and wishing they never knew.

It's works the other way too, there's people who are gay who might love Guns N' Roses music and than they find out about Axl's homophobia.

If you love the music, that can be more of a factor than the other stuff.

I've said this before that they had some similar experiences but reacted in different ways, Kurt became a sensitive boy flag waver and Axl tried on a tough guy persona.


Freya, you always say intelligent things.  :)

Two things on a topic that has been discussed ad naseum here. I know that people are going to post what they want to post, but please understand that this is a really complicated topic (one's sexism/racism/homophobia) that deals with the deepest intricacies of the human psyche (especially in Axl's case because how he deals with all these issues is inextricably linked to experiences he had in his childhood) and you simply cannot just say "he is" or "he is not" a homophobe/racist/sexist... There is simply too much to discuss about it but its way simplistic to look at one thing he said and draw conclusions from that.

Um, that interview with Kurt (posted above) really pissed me off. I am about as objective as you get about this shit (because it really doesn't matter to me one way or another) but Kurt was such an arrogant prick. And that reporter could not have been more up his ass.  ::) All signs point to the fact that Kurt had quite a thing for Axl, love/hate whatever you want to label it, but he was a bit obsessed it seems. Kurt was such a paradox- he was sensitive but he was also a fucking jerk.  :-\

But, generally speaking, Freya is absolutely correct that Kurt and Axl had A LOT in common, were flip sides of the same coin.

Thanks honey.

And Jamie, I could argue the point about Axl's supposed homophobia, as badgirl points out it's a complicated issue.

Do I think he is confused about his feelings about gays?  Yes.  Considering his abusive past/strict upbringing and the fact that a man who picked him up hitchhiking tried to rape him, I have no doubt that he's got issues and also major issues with women, but that doesn't prevent me from enjoying his music.  

But I do also appreciate that as a male performer he's portrayed a lot of sensitivity and a sexual personae on stage that you don't normally get from your usual guy.  He is a fan of a lot of gay artists and I think his only judgment of people is on a personal basis, iows, his feelings about gays is not a malicious thing.


See, this is funny.  Axl liked Devo too.  He said in his high school if you liked Devo, you were considered a punk rocker.  I think one of the guys from Devo said once that they wanted Axl to cover 'Freedom of Choice', that would have been cool.  
 

"He is insane , though. I was scared." That pretty much sums it up.  ;D

I think I know how you feel... I am a Nirvana fan, but definitely not a Kurt fan.

He made it so hard to like both genres of music - almost as if you were choosing between 2 opposing political ideologies.  Please!  give me a break!   It may seem like that because one was so anti-Rockstar while the other defined Rockstar, but that's all on the surface!  

Both bands wrote good music, but I obviously prefer Guns.  The lyrics "I think I'm dumb" just dont cut it for me  :P


Initially, I was uncomfortable with it.  But I understand that Duff & Co may genuinely like the song and just feel like playing it regardless of the sordid history between GNR and Nirvana.
The 5-year old kid in me wants VR to give it back to Nirvana as much as they got it, but that would be pointless since the guy went and offed himself.

Poor Slash! Agrred to play a song written by Kurt Cobain, a horrible giutar player...

Well, if Vr really needs it they will be fucked up!

Ok, I still liking VR... but they don?t need to play Nirvana, unless they play "In Bloom".

im not a Nirvana freak so anyone knows who wrote Negative Creep? maybe it wasnt a Cobain song or did he write everything?

Yeah... I never heard this song... well, I?ve sais what I said based in what I have heard from Cobains's guitar: crap and more crap!

Kurt basically wrote everything. I think the only Nirvana song written by the whole band, was scentless apprentice

Its the past, Kurts dead, he was addicted to herion at the time

So were Slash & Duff (or at least other substances). Its the past, it was a rivalry between the bands, i believe Kurt probably had the most hate towards Axl, & he didnt really know the others in the band

Well let me start off by saying Nirvana sucks, all there music is so depressing. I think also it was just Kurt / Axl not to much Nirvana / GnR . VR is probaly just thinkin fuck it lets get away from Axl and play whatever we want.

I really like Nirvana's music and have since late 1991 when I heard them for the first time.  Nowhere near as much as GNR or VR (or a whole host of other bands), but they were a great rock n' roll band.  However, that was really rude and ignorant of Kurt Cobain to say he couldn't think of one redeeming quality about GNR and unfairly try to project his image of Axl onto the whole band.  Talentless?  Come on, what was this guy on?  Wait, don't answer that.  You want to talk about talentless, just look at a great deal of the no-name bands Kurt was always talking about.  It's really big of Slash and Duff to be playing one of his songs now.  Their version of "Negative Creep" is every bit as good as the original, if not better since Slash adds a kick-ass solo to it.  And, as many of us know, Axl wore a Nirvana t-shirt in the video for "Don't Cry," which was released shortly before Nirvana hit the big time.  Kurt repaid him by being a first-class asshole, instead of being grateful for the promotion.  Just imagine what a great tour Nirvana and Guns N' Roses would have been in 1992.  It could have happened if Kurt hadn't been such a stuck-up loser.  If he himself wasn't gay (and who the hell knows, maybe he was), then why did he care if Axl was a homophobe or not?  I personally don't think he was or is, nor do I really care, and neither should have Kurt.  "You're either with us or against us," what a bunch of crap.  Most rock fans loved both bands and there's nothing wrong with that at all, except in the mind of some p.c. fascist like Cobain or the other alt-rock nazis that roamed the earth during that time.  As good as Nirvana and a few of the other grungers were, thank God those days are behind us.  The early ?90s saw a lot of really good bands, like GNR, get knocked to the curb for absolutely no good reason at all.  Sadly, the general public bought into this bullshit, but I think in 2004 most of us realize just how unfair all of that truly was.  There was room for grunge and pure rock, but it had to be one or the other thanks to asshole like Cobain and all the elitist snobs who supported his worthless ass.  Cobain wasn?t even the most talented guy in his own band.  He had talent, but he should have let that talent speak for itself instead of trying to knock everyone else down in the process.

Sorry, I'm rambling, but it's almost 4 am and I've been drinking all night.  That Kurt Cobain really pisses me off, regardless of how good his music was.  He had a two-year daughter to think about and the whole world in the palm of his hand and he kills himself (assuming that's what actually happened and Courtney Love didn't have him killed, which I wouldn't doubt).  If in fact he did kill himself, that just proves what a piece of shit he really was.  Say what you will about Axl (I?m not his biggest fan anymore, as some of you have noticed), but at least he didn?t take the easy way out.  He?s still alive, and thank God for that.

In my opinion Nirvana were just jelous of the power and popularity GNR had. Kurt Cobain was just a useless untalented junkie he dissed GNR and look where the wanker is now dead.

Slash, Duff and Matt aren't little whinging bastards who hold grudges against useless pathetic people. GNR had power and lots of fans. I wonder where Nirvana's so called fans are now, when they released the best off it couldn't even stay in the top 20 for long. They've forgotten about Kurt and Nirvana and for good reason they were shit. GNR has proved to be the winners. 10 years without a record and still millions of fans wait patiently. And the GH has proved to be a success.

Can't believe this thread has been started because of Velvet Revolver playing Negative Creep.  You really think they've even thought that much about it.  Fact is they like Nirvana's music, hell so did Axl i mean he did not wear a Nirvana hat in an interview for the fun of it (or did he).  Duff & Kurt talked on that plane flight and Slash has shown up on programs talking about Nirvana saying how good they were.  I mean what's the big deal?  Personally i think Nirvana suck but if Velvet Revolver like them then hell why not.  As for Axl being homophobic that's BS.  That line in One In A Million was not meant to generate to the whole world it was just how he felt through personal experience.  Since the time of that song he's performed with Elton John 2wice.  The Freddy Mercury Tribute Concert (where they hugged at the end) and the 1992 MTV VMA's.  Now Elton John obviously has no problem with him, i think Kurt Cobain's entire argument looks weak when he calls them talentless.  How the fuck can you call Slash (with those great solo's e.g. Estranged) and Axl (with his lyrical genious) talentless?

I agree on them being shit but music is all about personal taste that is just my viewpoint but to say that people have forgotten about Kurt Cobain/Nirvana is a joke dude fact he/they will never be forgotten.  Every year for his anniversary the music channels always go overboard more so than they do for people such as Elvis Presley, Jim Morrison & Jimi Hendrix.  And the amount of people i see walking round in Nirvana Hoodies/T-Shirts, it's way more than the Guns N' Roses ones i can't fail to go into a Rock Club without seeing a bunch of Nirvana fans.  At the end of the day is has gone down in rock history and a load of people's memories and he will remain there.

why everybody said duuff was in plane with cobain,i said cobain was in plane with duff,because duff was part of much much bigger band than cobain's Nirvana was

I did a search for Kurt in the GN'R and Dead Horse sections and found these threads for the last 90 days or so:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=12150
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=11580
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=11599



/jarmo

The guy is fucking dead, leave him alone . I'm sure Axl doesen't lose any sleep over Kurt Kobain. (don't argue, in the album Bleach it's spelled that way)

lol, this is funny.  I agree with what you said, it was elitism 100%.  

My take is Kurt really had no right to say anything...

the guy was a junkie... just because he thought he was better because they didn't live the "rockstar lifestyle"

i mean with all due respect the guy was a drug addict and killed himself... and im not saying i was happy about that even thought i hated him...but who was he to talk?

i agree with the person that said he def had a love/hate thing for axl.... and ya know axl probably had the same thing for him



oh yeah thats hysterical how Duff wanted to beat up chris....hahaha

oh yeah... i am not even familiar with Negative Creep

but Velvet revolver should close there shows with one of their own fucking songs

I think Kurt was just like AXL, and he knew it. It was this part of his personality that his punk rock 'ethics' could not let him be and so naturally he was jealous of Axl.


Fact: In the late 80's kurt would wear a bandana, just like AXL

Fact: In the biography of Kurt called 'heavier than heaven' there is a story of how Kurt spat on some of his fans who wanted autographs because he thought they were jocks.People only seem to write the good stuff about Kurt and the bad stuff about Axl, I think they are very alike and would have been good pals.

Whatever you think of Kurt/Nirvana you can't say that he was talantless....... I mean come on???

Personally I think a lot of the praise that he gets is misplaced, his famous songs are not his best, Nevermind is a poor representation of his overall songwriting. He was a lot better than that album.

Want proof??

Check out: 'Aero Zeppelin' - man  this song is one of the best riff fests ever written,

I don;t give a shit about Axl being a homophobe or a racist.He could be a serial killer,but the fact is he can sing and write awesome music,while Cobain couldn't.He was just the voice of a frustrated unadapted to society part of a generation

How could Cobain have the gall to call anyone in GN'R talentless!?  Did he ever once actually sit back and read over his retarded-ass lyrics?  Jealousy does some strange things to people.  I guess he (Kurt) figured if he couldn't sell more records than Guns he would just dis them at every given opportunity and try to turn people against them.  Yeah, that strategy really worked. :hihi:

I like some of Nirvana's music but I gotta quote someone from this site who posted this in regards to the bull-shit Cobain went on and on about:

 

OMG, would I like to see a picture of that.  I think these boys were in love with each other.  

 :hihi: totally.
One thing i wanted to add. People talk about Kurt being the anti-rock star. That is total bullshit. One of the things that makes him such a paradoxical figure was the fact that he hated fame and courted it at the same time. He (and this was another similarity he shared with Axl) read his own press all the time, quoted it, responded to it, etc... I am not the first person to point out this discrepency in what Kurt said and what he did. Writers and casual observers have mentioned this for years, how Kurt would blast fame yet pose for Rolling Stone, hate the press, yet follow every word they wrote about him.
But, if you believe like i do that actions speak louder than words, Kurt WAS most definitely a rock star. Just a different kind.

Kurt Cobain was part of a generation in which being homophobic is even less accepted than being homosexual used to.

He saw it as his duty to stick up for the minorities, and he started the evident trend of 'rock' musicians getting involved in issues that are a very long way out of their comprehension, eg the farcical 'Rock Against Bush' CD  ::)

And speaking of that remark by Badgirl, this is another remark Cobain made in another interview in which he was bashing Axl.

They were talking about how Novoselic hit himself on the head with his guitar at the MTV awards and Cobain used that to change the subject to Axl again.

 http://www.guitarworld.com/artistindex/9612.cobain.html

[[GW: I thought it was great when Chris hit his head with the guitar at the end of your performance that evening. You're all trying to be cool and smash up your instruments, and he really fucked it up-it's really good!

COBAIN: That's happened so many times.

GW: An impressive finale, and you end up looking really stupid, but that's great too.

COBAIN: It was so expected, you know? Should we just walk off the stage, or should we break our equipment again? We went through so many emotions that day, because up until just minutes before we played, we weren't sure we were going to go on. We wanted to play "Rape Me," and MTV wouldn't let us. They were going to replace us if we didn't play "Teen Spirit." We compromised and ended up playing "Lithium." I spat on Axl's keyboards when we were sitting on the stage. It was either that or beat him up. We're down on this platform that brought us up hydraulically, you know? I saw his piano there, and I just had to take this opportunity and spit big goobers all over his keyboards. I hope he didn't get it off in time. ]]

I think there was a bit of a spitting theme to Kurt Cobain. In other interviews about his life, Kurt used to say when he was in school he used to get really drunk go to parties and spit on the backs of jocks and laugh that they never knew. So I definitely think there's truth to the theory that he transferred that hate onto Axl and saw Axl as the same of the people he hated in school.

Has anyone ever questioned whether Kurt Cobain was what he said he was? He always said he was beaten up at school and everything.....but I don't know about you and how your schools were, but from what I know, the "unpopular" kids, the ones branded losers by the "cool" people,  the ones who were picked on and tormented, weren't going to parties drunk and spitting on people. That was usually what the "cool" people did, the ones that Cobain said he hated...

Sorry, but I think this is the worst comment in this thread.  You don't need to be the victim of something yourself to find something offensive or wrong.

In other words, you don't need to be the one discriminated against to be outraged by something.

Here's what I found very admirable about Kurt Cobain. Here's a guy who came out and said if you're homophobic, racist, sexist, etc....then don't buy our records, don't go to our shows, we don't want you're fucking money. So many people in music simply want to sell as many records/CD's as possible, not many of them would tell a whole throng of people to NOT buy their records. It was an especialy gutsy thing to say for someone whose audience basically were macho teenagers as at the time Nirvana was the music of choice for the "cool" people at school.

Regardless of whether you personally support the way he felt about these issues yourself, there's no denying that someone who stands up for what they believe in deserves respect for doing so.

And another thing to that point that I liked about Cobain, the first interview that I posted, that came from the magazine "The Advocate"...the gay magazine. So many musicians or actors are so afraid or offended at being called gay, that they would never do such a thing. Here's someone, Kurt Cobain, who was not gay (he just didn't care if people said he was) yet he stuck to his principles and did the interview with them regardless of what it would do for his popularity with the mainstream fans and media.

Hmmm, Kurt Cobain. I have said everything I wanted to say about him already so I dont believe it necessary to re hash the same old stuff except that anyone who called what is widely regarded as one of the best band of all time as "talentless", "pathetic" needs to rethink his position on things (well I suppose he can't now).

Since when is Elton John the judge? Because one gay person with an agenda deems publicly (by singing on stage with a certain person) certainly doesn't make it so. Let's not forget that a couple of years ago Elton John also performed with Eminem (who I basically think is a complete idiot) at an Awards show, who also said "anti-gay" things...

Yes Elton John is gay, but he is also a performer who is going on tours and trying to sell records. Hmmmm....he performed with Axl in 1992 when Axl was arguably the most popular singer in the world at the time and then Elton John performed with Eminem who (sadly!) was arguably the most popular performer at the time. Hmmm...is there an agenda there? Perform with someone who has a ton of fans and popularity and hope that by them endorsing you, that you might gain a few of their fans.

So Axl performing with Elton John or vice versa doesn't mean anything to me. And as I said before, Axl liked the music of Elton John and Freddy Mercury ever before he knew anything about them personally.

Personally, there is no doubt in my mind that Axl is homophobic. Have you ever heard Axl talk about "One in a Million"? I have. You could tell he was very upset at being branded a racist, went out of his way to defend himself and say he wasn't a racist, you could tell he was very heart-felt in trying to say that he wasn't a racist.....yet when the subject came to the "faggot" references, Axl didn't defend himself much, didn't seem that upset about it like did about the racial comments. The interview said that Axl started to say something about one experience he had in LA where a guy was coming on to him...and then kind of shrugged and said he didn't want to defend himself.

The differences between Axl's reaction to being called a racist and being labelled homophobic spoke volumes! One greatly seemed to bother him and one didn't. Hmmm...

Now for me it doesn't take away that Axl is a great musician and a brilliant songwriter, but let's not fool anybody. He's a homophobe.

Just one thing that bothers me about these discussions, I think the word "homophobic" is the most mis-used word in the english language. Of course, "Phobic" means fear. So homophobic implies that someone is afraid of gay people. I've heard some people try to break it down as well, hatred comes from ignroance and that ignorance is fear...or something dumb like that.

I don't really think that someone who is definitely homophobic, like those religious freaks, like the Jerry Falwell's are afraid of gay people. It's that they have a hatred and deeply discriminatory against those people.

So when I use the word homophobic, that's what I mean, a hatred, not that I'm saying Axl is "afraid" of gay people.

 

Thanks for the links, Jarmo. The only one that I missed, was the second one, which is the only one that I think is decent in terms of the discussion. The first link, there isn't much discussion in that one and the third one is just comparing record sales.

Anyways, I think this thread is a great one with a lot of intelligent posts on both sides of the subject. Again, I apologize to the people who are on the board regularly that see the same subjects come up repeatedly, but sometimes discussions can be better when there's new people contributing to them or are adding new opinions or posting new facts or interviews relating tot he subject.

And if it really bothers someone that much, of course they don't need to click on the thread and they don't need to read it if they don't want to.

Funny fact.  Kurt actually found out later that he spat on Elton John's side of the piano.  lol, oh the irony.

I don't know how old you are Jamie, but I believe that Kurt's whole obsession with ignorant jocks liking his music is a bunch of hooie.  There was no doubt at that time, that the "cool" kids liked Nirvana.  GnR fans were not looked at as cool at all.

I have to run back to work, I'll finish later but about the gay issue, there is some evidence that Kurt at least thought about experimenting with his sexuality, whether that was sincere or not I don't know.  Finish later.

In about 1992, they were both pretty popular, so I wouldn't say that GNR weren't "cool". A little later and that might be true.

I'll wait to see what you're going to say about his sexuality before I post, because I have my own thoughts on that too.  If you're saying he was gay, I disagree.

As soon as Nirvana broke into the mainstream, it became "uncool" to like Guns n Roses (which it remains pretty much to this day) (i get made fun of constantly). I don't know the dates, but whenever you heard teen spirit on MTV was the death of GnR. Whatever, it's bullshit anyway. People who follow what everyone else says are the biggest losers of all.

About Kurt's sexuality. I wanted to point something out before Freya gives her opinion (though i can't imagine it would be that much different from what i am going to say). I wanted to clarify something because there seems to be a rampant homophobia on this board. Being open with your sexuality, experimenting with members of the same sex, does not make someone "gay". ::) That's what people who have no clue about the nuances of sexuality and identity say, but that simply is not true. From all i have seen and read, Kurt was not afraid to experiment with his sexuality, was not afraid of gay people but he was not gay. If he fucked a man, he would still not be gay. The definitions of "gay" vary to such a large degree that you simply cannot label someone else.
Sexuality is a continoum. Not everybody is either one thing or its opposite. there is quite a bit of wiggle free room in between where labels simply don't apply. Not to mention, i think Kurt was progressive enough to realize that labeling is stupid. I doubt he would have done it.

Well said Sunking.

That interview just shows what a worthless stuck up asshole Kurt Cobain is. I think he was insecure and jealous, being the fucking untalented LOSERS they were/are, and bashed Guns N' Roses to make themselves seem better. Not only do I hate their music, but I hate that drugged out bastard Kurt Cobain and his fucking skank whore Courtney Love as well.

Having said that, I think he was right in saying that Axl is homophobic, but I think that perhaps Freddie Mercury's death had something to do with his change of ways? No one can really argue that he wasn't homophobic - after all, didn't he wear a tshirt or something that says "AIDS kills faggots dead" or some such shit? I don't remember because I was quite small at the time. But after Freddie's death, didn't he donate money or something to help in finding a cure for AIDS? I could be wrong about all this because my mom forbid me when I was little to have anything to do with GNR - for the very reason that Axl was homophobic - but I won't go into that, because she pisses me off to NO END!

But even if Axl WAS homophobic, or even still IS, WHO THE FUCK CARES!? As far as music goes, WHAT does that have to do with ANYTHING!? On a personal level I am not a big fan of his (Axl) at all, because everything that Kurt Cobain pretty much said, I admit, it's true - but to call Guns N' Roses UNTALENTED!? And he didn't even aim that lousy excuse of a remark towards Axl, he said that about Guns N' Roses. First of all, Axl Rose just might be the biggest asshole known to God, and with that I will never argue, but that doesn't make him untalented as a musician, which he is NOT - as Superjudge said, he is a lyrical genious, and I will add unique vocal genious - (especially) at the time of that piece of shit interview. And if he is in any way denying Slash (and the rest of the band) then maybe he was just crazy enough that it was probably for the best that he... never mind. I'm not going to say an evil thing about his death just because I'm pissed off over something that he said years ago.


I'm not going to kiss his ass just because he is dead. Sure, boo hoo, the guy is fucking dead. I am just venting my anger on something he has said before - to this board, it's not like I would say it to his mother.

I have been watching the infamous St.Louis gig from the Illusions tour.  And before all thats chaos kicks off. He's taking to the audience and asks: how can you listen to my music  and still have to ask questions?

He explains what happened when he first got to St.Louis .  I don't know if i should say, but as he said it publicly - well basically he was nearly raped by a guy that had given him a lift from Indiana (i think) and he describes how it took all his might not to slice that guy right there and then.

Now if anyone had experienced something like that you would have alot of aggression and  hate towards that person and that situation.

I think One in a Million is such a mis-understood important song.  The chorus is almost heartbreaking and the lyrics are so biting. But they are not sensational, they are gritty and his true expression.  

I'm suprised as a song writer that Kurt could not see throught the hype that song caused.  

Personally i quite like Nirvana, have never been a big fan though. But i think In Utero, Incesticide and Unplugged are good albums.  

 : ok: Absolutely!!! Not to mention, the early experiences he had with his father/step-father raping him and the subsequent abuse he suffered at the hands of his step-father/father (because i forget which was which) when he would look at a woman... Axl got all kinds of mixed messages about sexuality and must have been quite confused considering his boyhood idols were gay but he feared homosexuals (or some) for what they did to him...
I absolutely love that song. It's like the most beautiful angry song (as in song about anger).

God no, that was Sebastian Bach.

And Jamie, I was 19 in 1992 and liking GnR was not cool.  They were still hugely popular, but not cool.  With all my friends it was Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and Mudhoney.  I still liked GnR, but I wouldn't have said it out loud.

Kurt was most likely not gay, but he was open to experimentation, like I said I don't know if that was sincere or if he just identified with gay people as "victims" and thought he should try it.  Courtney herself said Kurt wanted to sleep with Michael Stipe.  


I didn't see much of a difference, he talked about both at length, I don't know if he ever expressed himself that eloquently about it.  He did talk at length in Interview magazine with a writer who happened to be gay about it.  I just think comparing Axl to the hatred reactionaries like Jerry Falwell or whoever have about gay people is a tad harsh, it's just not that black and white.  People can conflicting emotions over a subject without it necessarily making them hateful or evil.  

It was unfortunate that he used that word, but that song perfectly encapsulates a young, ignorant-of-the-world (and I don't mean stupid) person being presented with a frightening, unfamiliar experience.  I imagine he's learned much since then.  Just because you don't agree with the sentiments in the song, doesn't negate it's effectiveness.

The problem I had then and now with Cobain using the bands as a separation of political ideologies was it was arrogant.  As if anyone who listened to GnR couldn't think for themselves and make their own judgments.  Like we were all redneck trailer trash.  They sold millions of albums, obviously that wasn't the case.  And again Cobain's idealism, was based in a very white, middle class, western pretense.  Do you think if he wer alive today he would say something to Fifty Cent over his gay bashing?  Not bloody likely.  Anyway, what Cobain said may have been admirable on one hand but the answers are not as simple as he presented them, he was judgemental himself and I resented that.  jmo.  

 

He was either in a coma or dead.

Elton may not be the judge, but if Axl was "homophobic," then why would he play with an openly gay person? Not that I have a problem with people who are labeled as  "homophobic" or anything, but a phobia is an irrational fear of something, and if someone was afraid of gay people, he or she wouldn't unnecessarily go on stage and preform with them.

That's an interesting point of view. It's completely out of touch with what the majority of the planet's population believes, but it's interesting nevertheless.

That's because the majority of the American public are bible-thumping sheep who will believe anything you tell them and who have to label people in order to feel comfortable with their own inadequetly defined identities. People are comfortable with "black and white" "gay and straight", etc... because that makes the world quite simple. It's all really an issue about linguistics and identity formation- you "are" something because of a label. What are "gay" people without the word "homosexual" attached to them, without that label...?
Besides, homosexuality, and the various subsets of it, has been around forever. It's only with this society, with language and the ability to, again, label things and people that we have an awareness of it.
Life is shades of grey, which is confusing and scary to people with small minds who only want to think in extremes. If a man hooks up with another man than he must be gay... um, no. first off, because who are you to determine someone else's identity and secondly, much more goes into one's sexual identity than simply who they fuck and how often.
It's all very complicated, and when i hear people throwing that term around (in this case, referring to whether or not Kurt was gay) it's bothersome in so far as no one here (especially on this board where there is way too much homophobia) has the authority to say with certainty anything about Kurt's sexuality and less about his sexual identity.
Sorry for the tangent. And FYI- i am a straight chick from America.  :)

but what about the rest of the world? Gay people in America have more rights than in most other places in the world.  

And it's funny how you complain about people being labeled as gay, yet you have no problem with labeling the majority of the American public as "bible-thumping sheep" and many people on this board as being "homophobic."  Let's have some consistency. Either we're gonna use labels or we won't use labels.

But I agree that no one here can say anything with certainty about Kurt's sexual identity or about Axl's alleged homophobia. It's good to hear out what people have to say about it though  :beer:

Actually there is a label for Cobain.  It is called Bi-curious.    : ok:

Labeling the majority of 300 million people ignorant (whom you have never met) in an argument against ignorance, anyone else see the irony in this?

Lock this thread : ok:

whats the deal with Kurt's $$$ mentions at the beginning of the thread, in that article?

he describes his income and stuff, suggesting his economics are small potatos vs. Axl's...

um, wasnt Nirvana that band with the 'appetite for destruction (of equipment) after all their shows?

incidentally, the only guitar i ever saw slash smash was in the video for dont cry..  in fact he's been using the same guitars for years...  (seeing those axe's was a major highlight of my first Slash concert last week!).
he had that red one, and his Les Pauls.   :smoking:

sorry, i'd know the spec.'s better if i played 6 strings instead of 4...


crack a lack, a cracka jack.  holla back.



Edit*****   yes, Guns equipment was often destroyed at shows too, but thats a little diffrent...   Nirvana would deliberately destroy their gear..
i suppose one might argue Axl's antics 'deliberately' incited riots, but thats a topic for another thread.  8)

Calling a whole group of people based on one experience with one person is not right, also known as bigotry.

This is how I sort of define homophobia: If you were gay, would you fear telling this person you were gay, do you have reasonable grounds to believe that if they knew that they would react negatively, which can be any of the following -- insultingly, discrimatory, or violently. Basically, would they automatically think less of you simply if they knew you were gay. If the answer is yes, then that person is what I describe as homophobic.

There are varying degrees of it and different reasons behind it. I'll break into 3 basic categories.

#1. The people who believe that if someone is gay that means they want to attack them sexually and rape them.  Sort of the paranoid group.   -- I think it's fair to say Axl fits into this group

#2. The people who wants to beat the fuck out of somebody simpy because they are a "faggot", the Matthew Sheppard beating and murder being the extreme -- I think it's fair to say Axl would fit into this category also.

#3. The religious angle of it's "morally" wrong and they're out to corrupt our society, etc. -- I don't think Axl fits in this one.

I think #1 and #2 applies to Axl and that's why I think it's fair to call him homophobic.

The reason why I posted that part of the interview was I think it illustrates just how much Kurt hated Axl, the fact that out of the blue when he wasn't even asked about him, he would just bring up Axl, just to make the point that he's not like him.

Cobain hated the stereotypical "rock star" life, the life of luxury. I think he was trying to say that he was still grounded and not a "rock star", so he pointed to someone who he thought was an example of that.

The issue was brought up when someone suggested that Cobain "must" have been gay otherwise why would he have had a problem with Axl's comments and homophobia.

Another thing that I admired about Kurt Cobain was that he was perhaps one of the most honest people I've ever read in interviews. He was very candid when talking about it. He said he was "definitely gay in spirit" but the fact was he was just more attracted to females. He said for a while he thought he might be bi-sexual and said he always wished he had male friends that he could connect with on a deep level but never did. At one point he said he wished he was gay just so he could piss off certain people.

That is why I don't think he was gay. The type of person he was, if he was gay he would have said so. You don't do an interview with the Advocate if you're worried about people finding out that you're gay. You don't do benefit shows to fight against homophobia if you're worried about people thinking you're gay.

And about Axl and Elton John, I really don't think that means anything. To say that he's not homophobic because he had respect for Elton John's music is a giant stretch in my opinion. He grew up liking his music. No, I don't think he's so small minded that he would suddenly stop liking music simply because he later learned that he was gay. In other words, Elton John was a musical influence and icon. He's an exception. He certainly does not represent Axl's views on gay people in general.

1)Around the time of the failed 2002 tour there was a story (go to the bottom of this page http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=611 ) about how Axl ended up in a gay gym in Seattle, but he just went about his business and was very polite. I don't think that describes a "paranoid" person.

2)I don't remember Axl 'beating the fuck out of' Elton John even though he was on the same stage with him and he knew Elton was gay. So Axl clearly isn't the type who would 'want to beat up someone simply because he's a "faggot."'



The fact that he agreed to preform on the same stage with a gay person for millions of people to see is a pretty damn good indication that he is not afraid of gay people and he doesn't hate them as a group. Not that I care if Axl was "homophobic" but the facts just don't add up.

In my opinion, that was one of the most contrived interviews I've ever read. Kurt is a great promoter and he did an excellent job of pandering to the Advocate's audience with his calculated attacks on GN'R.

I wouldn't call it pandering or being a great promoter. By great promoter you imply he says stuff just to sell records, I disagree, it's just the opposite.

The number of people he would reach by doing an interview with the Advocate magazine is FAR less than what their base audience was or could have been -- as we've discussed -- high school kids who liked Nirvana because they were the cool thing at the time.

If anything, doing an interview with the Advocate could alienate many people (the macho/cool high school kids) who were far more likely to by Nirvana stuff.  

Kurt Cobain did it because he stood up for what he believed in.

Again, Elton John (and Freddy Mercury for that matter) are the exceptions because they were Axl's musical heroes!

Let me rephrase it -- if you were gay and a music superstar whom Axl grew up listening to before he knew a thing about you personally, than you're immune to Axl's hatred and bigotry. If not, you're out of luck. Far more people fall into the latter category.

Please answer this question honestly: If you were gay, would you fear telling him you were gay, do you think he react negatively, which can be any of the following -- insultingly, discrimatory, or violently; basically, would he automatically think less of you simply if they knew you were gay?

You would honestly say no? Come on.

This topics are so pothetic that it is sad I have to answer them all the time.
But as long as I see people saying shit about NIRVANA in order to protect some prick who gets in fight with everyone including all his ex bandmembers who made him who he is and his own family - I have to.
When the hell are you people gonna stop wondering about fights other people had who you don't even know?
You are having such topics over and over and over again and Kurt has been dead for over 10 years now!
How little do you brains have to be in order for you to say 'this band is better than that one!'?
Why the hell can't you say you are lucky that you've been around when NIRVANA,  GNR,  SMASHING PUMPKINS and METTALICA were around?
(I know,  most of the people bashing other bands are the ones who were 5 or 6 back then and are bashing cause they got involved with thoose bands when it was all over so they neither have understandings nor the feelings about or for that bands!  Which is sad!).
FACT IS AXL is a homophobe - ONE IN A MILLION!
FACT IS AXL is a sexsist - count all the 'bitches',  no women or girls.
FACT IS AXL wanted to play with NIRVANA NOT VICE VERSA.
FACT IS AXL began bashing NIRVANA after he was rejected by NIRVANA.
Why does NIRVANA have to play with someone else or be opener at the point in time they could headline everything they wanted?
If you were NIRVANA MOST of you would've played alone or would be stupid if you didn't!
After all,  in a democratic world doesn't one have a choice to do what he wants?
What did NIRVANA miss by not playing with GNR/METALLICA?
The bashing from AXL that METALLICA got cause poor James was the 'star' of the tour although he got second degree burns.
But no, eh, AXL is cool,  eh!  Everyone else sucks!   YOU ARE SAD!

FACT IS AXL BASHED his FAMILY,  METALLICA,  NIRVANA,  SLASH,  DUFF, MATT,  IZZY, GILBY and everyone else apart from that 'AXL head nodder' DIZZY,  and everyone else he ever contacted,  met, or knew about.

FACT IS AXL is a great songwriter (with the people that don't work with him anymore),  great showman.  but a bad voice squeezing singer who doesn't give shit about his fans!  (For how long are you NIRVANA and ex members bashers waiting for your album?  Well,  there you go,  I am happy for you!   Guess what?    You may die of natural cause before you super idol Axl gives you the next album!). :D

FACT IS Chris did get in fight with DUFF'S gorillas but NOT DUFF!
DUFF was one of the last people to see Kurt and was about to offer him a ride home when Kurt dissapeared.
SLASH (whose albums are not sad like some of you put it,  but GREAT!  Face it both IFOS and ALG are not only far better than anything AXL recorded since 1991,  but far better than anything AXL will EVER record with this line up!),  wrote a very nice song called LOWER about his feelings when he heard about Kurt on TV.

FACT IS AXL today would've been lucky to have a job like medicine tester or any of the ones he had in the past hadn't he had guys like SLASH,  DUFF,  MATT,  GILBY, IZZY or STEVE!
This guys made him who he was and saying such stuff like he did about them is - SAD!
Whoever says such rubbish about the people who made you who you are is nothing but a piece of junk for me!
And that is the reason why SMASHING PUMPKINS and NIRVANA are up by 1% on my scale  compared to GNR.

I fully stand by everything I said right here and don't give a damn if you like it or not.  Don't give a damn if you'll bash me or not.
Most of you have such pure lives that you can't do anything else but bash,  bash,  bash whole day long cause only that makes you feel bigger,  better and greater!

Finally,  what role do AXL 's and KURT's disputes play in your life that you pay such huge bills for them?
You don't even know thoose people!   It would be like me talking about you and your mom's fight...

Yes, Kurt stood up for what he believed in and he didn't do an interview with the Advocate just to sell records, but he did use his attacks on GN'R to appeal to the audience of that particular magazine. I don't see how it's the "opposite."


Yes, but nobody said that wasn't case. Certainly Nirvana's fan base didn't come from just reading one interview with the Advocate.  You're just stating the obvious.


Most people, especially high school kids, don't read the Advocate and wouldn't know even know about the interview, so I don't see how it would alienate them. But are you gonna tell me that Kurt did a bad job of promoting himself to the audience (that's the people who actually read it) of the Advocate?

If Ax's "hatred and bigotry" is as strong as you make it out to be, I don't see how they could possibly be exceptions. Either way, a "homophobic" person would not preform on the same stage with a gay person for millions of people to see.


First of all, people have a right to think less of you if they knew you were gay. Humans are biased creatures. We are all biased in one way or another. You can't accuse someone of "homophobia" simply because they don't like homosexuals. Most people who make such accusations quickly expose themselves as hypocrites.

Now, do I think Axl will be insulting, discriminatory, or violent to a gay person just because he's gay? Absolutely not! Read the story about the Seattle Gold's Gym. I just don't see any evidence of the 'hatred and bigotry' you speak of.  So to answer your question, if I was gay, I would honestly not fear telling Axl I was gay.

Oh, that's just not so.  That is really, really harsh.  If anything, I believe Axl tried to "project" a macho image, because he was insecure about his own masculinity.  That is a world away from beating an innocent person because you don't agree with their lifestyle.  Axl had referred to being a "90 pound weakling" when he was in high school and Ian Astbury mentioned once that Axl told him the reason he got tattoos was so he wouldn't look so feminine.  Cops harassed Axl once because they thought he was a woman from behind and were embarassed.  You know Axl has always been a "sensitive" personality into music and art, he's hardly the thug people think he is.  He was a big fan of the Pet Shop Boys and met them at their performance art concert and sent them flowers the next day.  I would have no problem telling him I was a gay man, if I were either of those things.  

 
And geez, this is another misconception that has become lore.  KC wanted to be perceived as punk, but he was extremely career savvy.  When Nevermind hit, he went to his manager and demanded that he find them a nice place to live.  Courtney herself said that when they played some international concert that Kurt got the full "W. Axl Rose treatment" and he was the "happiest she'd ever seen him."  lol  Kurt was very concerned about appearing honest and raw, but he was very calculated about it.  lol

And lie?  Well I'll say exaggerate, the guy told tales, i.e. he never lived under a bridge.  

My Axl/Kurt related thought of the day?  In his suicide not Kurt wrote he was just "too sensitive", Cobain was too sensitive about the world, and Axl is too sensitive about himself.  


See?  He identified with gay people as "picked on", women as well, and was forever trying to tweak his childhood bullies.  Axl, otoh, rejected all aspects of victimization and came out swinging.  Both personalities are interesting studies.  

 
 

Who are you kidding?!?!? IFOS and ALG are pieces of poo!

By the way, thats opinion not fact!

Axl bashed his family? Perhaps you need to read into the background of why he did that..

GN'R talentless? Besides 3 or 4 songs on nevermind, I'd say Kurt is the more talentless one.. (my opinion)..

Maybe he would have enjoyed the rock star lifestyle too if he was alive long enough while Nirvana were big.. before the junkie shot himself.

Nah i only like 2 Nirvana songs and they are pretty much the same. Ur right Cobain is talentless who made publicity over nothing.

The one good thing that can be said about Kurt is that since 1991 he has released more original material than Axl. And Kurt has had the severe disadvantage of being dead for 10 years.

Kurt was just jelous of Axl and GN'Rs success,he knew that his music wouldn't be as long lasting as GN'R and he knew that he couldn't sing or play guitar worth a shit :peace:

Well what I have to say is that I think Kurt Cobain is a big dickhead who is way overated, I used to respect the guy he was good but not as good aseveryone thinks, but once I read this and a Nirvana book sayin he "was a 100 times better then fuckin guns n' roses" then i lost all respect for him and i think he's the biggest cock muncher in the world!

Is this a Nirvana board?

All these threads about Kurt Cobain makes me wonder.

Should we expect threads for every musician / celebrity who doesn't like Axl/GN'R?




/jarmo

I totally disagree. No disrepect intended, Jarmo, but that's a ridiculous  and narrow minded statement.

The Nirvana/Guns N' Roses fued is a notable period in the history of GNR. Even in the Much Music special the other day, they did a segment about it. And most of the guys talked about it, Slash, Matt, Duff, and Gilby. And they noted that when Nirvana broke big, that's when GNR's rock n roll excess image and their macho image (that we're talking about in this thread) was looked down upon. They even said that it was right around this time that the big rift between Axl and the rest of the band blew into full swing and Matt even said that when this all happened, GNR just went away.

And more specifically, Axl Rose and Kurt Cobain are arguably the 2 most controversial and intriguing singers in the last 20 years of music. So it is interesting to a lot of people to discuss what happened during that brief period where their two paths crossed.  

So, in other words, Kurt stood up for what he believed in and Axl became what he hated?

I agree that most High School kids don't read the Advocate, but they can hear about it because an interview like that gets picked up by other news sources. I'm sure there were some of "Hey Nirvana was in that faggot magazine!"

It's not a good move if you're trying to appeal to that audience.

Kurt didn't do a bad job or a good job of "promoting" himself to the Advocate...I don't think there was any "promoting" involved. He was simply doing something which he believed in. He believed in gay rights so why not do an interview with the most well-known gay magazine? It was the same thing as him doing the benefit show against homophobia or writing in the liner notes that if anyone has hatred for gays, they don't want you to buy their records or go to their shows.

Some people here are those things, so of course some here don't like what Cobain said, but you need to admire his principles. And it was those principles which made him hate Axl. Personally I'm able to separate Axl's personal views on some of those subjects and his talent as a singer and song writer, but obviously Kurt had more principles than I did and couldn't bring himself to say anything positive about someone whom he despised.

There's no way of ever knowing, but it would be interesting to know whether "One in a Million" did more damage to Axl's popularity and image or did more good (as in gaining fans). Because I know people who love that song and agree with everything Axl says and they love the hatred in which he says those words in that song. I have a friend who thinks everything he says in that song is true and love Axl for saying it. So that song did make Axl appeal to a certain type of person.

So it would be really interesting to know whether he lost more fans because of it or gained more fans?

And if he could do it again, I wonder if he would do it again? Personally, I think he knew that he would appeal to some people and knew that the mainstream media and the human rights groups would villify him for it, which is probably what he was going for (controversy). What I don't think Axl was counting on was for someone who was also a "rock God" to come out on the other side of the issue and hold him accountable for it. Know what I mean? It's one thing if you get a bunch politicians or human rights organaization leaders saying "he's a bad guy" but it's another thing when someone who is now viewed is "cool" worshipped by the kids and people who can be part of your audience, holds Axl accountable for it.

 


I don't think Axl cared what anyone thought, regardless of whether it was mainstream media or another "rock god." He was not accountable to anyone, least of all to Kurt Cobain ::)  Nor did Kurt hold him "accountable." Kurt launched such attacks against GN'R on gay friendly venues like the Advocate. Back in 1992, that interview would not have gone down well with the majority of MTV's audience. If Kurt really cared that much for Axl's homophobic lyrics, he would have been as vocal a critic of GN'R's "homophobia" when he was on MTV, not just on magazines that happen to be read by gay people and people who are friendly to the gay agenda. But that goes back to Kurt being a good promoter.

You don't think there was a plan behind the things Axl did? If so, I think you're grossly underestimating Axl's ability to get publicity (bad publicity, but it helps them sell records). I'm not saying he did things simply to cause controversy, but I do believe that he put them out knowing the controversy it would generate (another example being doing the Charles Manson song -- good way to have everyone talking about your new record).


I can't believe that your suggesting this, you're saying that Kurt Cobain was pandering to a gay audience in hopes of increasing his record sales? There's a reason why people use the term "minority" groups, and in this case he wasn't reaching a very large number of people.

Finally, the reason why I think you're totally mistaken about this is the fact that Kurt just didn't talk this way in the Advocate interview. He said some of the same type of things in an interview with GUITAR WORLD...certainly not something known for having a gay audience...Your theory might have validity if he only said those things in the one interview with the Advocate, but as this proves, he didn't, he did it in other interviews. He was just being himself (and like I said, incredibly honest) and doing what he believed in. An admirable quality.

 http://www.guitarworld.com/artistindex/9610.cobain.html

GW: Tell me about your high school experience. Were people unpleasant to you?

COBAIN: I was a scapegoat, but not in the sense that people picked on me all the time. They didn't pick on me or beat me up because I was already so withdrawn by that time. I was so antisocial that I was almost insane. I felt so different and so crazy that people just left me alone. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had voted me Most Likely To Kill Everyone At A High School Dance.

GW: Can you now understand how some people become so alienated that they become violent?

COBAIN: Yeah, I can definitely see how a person's mental state could deteriorate to the point where they would do that. I've gotten to the point where I've fantasized about it, but I'm sure I would opt to kill myself first. But still, I've always loved revenge movies about high school dances, stuff like Carrie.

GW: When did you start to think about sexism? Was it an outgrowth of your interest in punk?

COBAIN: No, it was before that. I could never find any good male friends, so I ended up hanging out with the girls a lot, and I just felt that they weren't being treated equally and they weren't treated with respect. I hated the way Aberdeen treated women in general-they were just totally oppressed. The words "bitch" and "cunt" were totally common, you'd hear them all the time. But it took me many years after the fact to realize those were the things that were bothering me. I was just starting to understand what was pissing me off so much, and in the last couple of years of high school, I found punk rock and it all came together. I finally understood that I wasn't retarded, you know?

GW: Did you ever have problems with people thinking you were gay?

COBAIN: Yeah. Even I thought that I was gay. Although I never experimented with it, I thought that might be the solution to my problem. I had a gay friend, and that was the only time that I ever experienced real confrontation from people. Like I said, for so many years they were basically afraid of me, but when I started hanging out with this guy, Myer Loftin, who was known to be gay, they started giving me a lot of shit, trying to beat me up and stuff. Then my mother wouldn't allow me to be friends with him anymore because she's homophobic.

GW: So did you stop?

COBAIN: Yeah. It was real devastating because finally I'd found a male friend who I could actually talk to and be affectionate with, and I was told I couldn't hang out with him anymore. Around that same time, I was putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. He played a big role in that.

GUITAR WORLD: Your lyrics contain some provocative gay references, in particular the line, "Everyone is gay" from "All Apologies." Is that a reflection of that time?

KURT COBAIN: I wouldn't say it was a reflection of that time. I'm just carrying on with my beliefs now. I guess it is [provocative] in a commercial sense, because of how many albums we've sold.

GW: It's very unusual to find bands talking about those kinds of things, particularly in the format that you're using, which is basically male rock.

COBAIN: Yeah, but I think it's getting better, though, now that "alternative music" is finally getting accepted, although that's a pretty sad term, as far as I'm concerned. But at least the consciousness is there, and that's really healthy for the younger generation.

GW: Have you had any problems from the industry or fans because of your gay references?

COBAIN: Never. Pansy Division covered "Teen Spirit" and reworked the words to "Smells Like Queer Spirit," and thanked us in the liner notes. I think it said, "Thank you to Nirvana for taking the most pro-gay stance of any commercially successful rock band." That was a real flattering thing. It's just that it's nothing new to any of my friends, because of the music we've been listening to for the last 15 years.

I suppose things are different now. If you watch MTV, they have these "Free Your Mind" segments in the news hour, where they report on gay issues and stuff like that. Pretty much in subtle ways they remind everyone how sexist the wave of heavy metal was throughout the entire Eighties, because all that stuff is almost completely dead. It's dying fast. I find it really funny to see a lot of those groups like Poison-not even Poison, but Warrant and Skid Row, bands like that-desperately clinging to their old identities, but now trying to have an alternative angle in their music. It gives me a small thrill to know that I've helped in a small way to get rid of those people-or maybe at least to make them think about what they've done in the last 10 years. Nothing has changed, really, except for bands like Soul Asylum who've been around for like 12 years, have been struggling in bars forever, and now have their pretty faces on MTV. Still, they have a better attitude than the metal people. I think it's healthier. I'd much rather have that than the old stuff. [end of quoting interview]

How can anyone read that and say he did not believe in it or was just trying to sell records? He was just doing what he believed in and in doing that it led to his hatred for Axl.

Like I said, I don't think Axl cared who criticized him, least of all Kurt Cobain. I never said Axl didn't plan things. Axl was also great at getting publicity.


I didn't find a single instance in that Guitar World interview where Kurt attacked GN'R for being homophobic so I don't see how he was holding Axl "accountable."

In a way, but not exactly, I don't feel that Axl felt he was being a "bully" but rather protecting himself.  Kurt, while though a seeming pacifist, used sarcasm and derision, (although he did threaten some people), while Axl had no problem using the threat of physical violence, but in response to a preceived threat (even if it was just in his own mind).  The crucial difference between the two men of course, was Axl was used to getting hit growing up, Kurt wasn't, so of course you can draw a line from there.  


I've said before that I'm skeptical that Cobain's "principles" were the sole reason that he bagged on Axl.  I really don't think Axl thought the song would appeal to anyone, I think his mindset is pretty self-centered.  But you have to realize how absolutely insane it was at that time, that the song was released.  Just think how many record company people, David Geffen, etc. had to listen to that song before it got released and nobody stopped it simply because they knew the band was making money.  I think couple years ago Axl did try to get the song taken off Lies, but it's still there, so I don't know if that's a record company thing or what.  Axl got total negative publicity as soon as that EP was released, even though he still was popular.  I still think though in time, that he is/will be more respected than maligned.  

Is so funny the way people try to fight against other groups just because the one group you love the most doesn`t like this or that group... ???
I love Guns, I love Pearl Jam, and I like Nirvana in a way, just because I respect people as individuals; all of them had and some still has their own dramas. :(

And music is to be loved or not to be heard,in case you don`t like it, but mistreat people who work hard to do their own thing is low! :rant:
That`s just what I think. :smoking:

 Well I think that NIRVANA sucks. I don't like their music. I never did. It's not because the things with Kurt and Axl. However, I was very happy when Axl kicked Kurt's ass in the MTV awards. I think that Kurt can't sing. His voice is annoying and the cover of Velvet Revolver will sound better than the original.
 
 That's my opinion about it.

didn't Axl slag spin in get in the ring?

Axl to me is a god I respect all music for what it is I do respect Kurt but killing ur self is the easy way out, Kurt wrote some interesting music and GN'R and Nirvana fued was just great go Axl!!!

That's great, but we don't need to know.  People are contributing to this topic and you're just being aggrivating, if you want to talk like that, take it somewhere else.

If Kurt wanted to be a hero in the indie/Alterna crowd, he had to slag GN'R, the biggest rock dinosour in the land.

I removed that message. 

Those numbers give kurt an edge, but he loses it because he hasn't palyed a show in 10 years.

Axl is a million times more talented than Kurt in every aspect but songwriting.  Kurt was a great songwriter but musically he wasn't that great.  Axl on the other hand is one of the greatest vocal performers of all time, and a killer piano player to boot.

Axl wins, hands down.

I bought "Nevermind" some months ago, and I must say I was really dissapointed!!
Nevermind has alot of boring riffs, and alot of them is almost the same!

Axl wins, hands down!! : ok:

Here's a Cobain interview where he mentions Guns N Roses multiple times, saying something negative about them in each case.

http://www.freewebs.com/marrik/interview3.htm

Kurt had a big time problem with GnR.  He went so far as to call them a talentless band ::

Cobain comes off as one of those ultra-egotistical nonconformists, who tries to act as though he is the ultimate open minded person but hates anyone whose beliefs differ from his. 

Agreed. Whats his problem with Axl? Cos Axl likes to spend money and have fun and be popular he is untalented? I wish Kurt was alive today just so he realised how stupid he sounded :no:

1. Gnr has sold more records-facts are facts. AFD more than Nevermind and both UYI'S more than In Utero. Gnr is more popular on a world wide basis as well. 2. There catalogs are very similar as far as total amount of recorded original material released-the number of original songs written and formally released is very similar. 3. Much to the critics chagrin, Nirvana, while influential for a six year period, really has little appreciable influence on today's music scene. Really, no more of an influence than Gnr. Someone please show me a great band who came out recently who sounds like Nirvana. Much like Gnr, they had a lot of imitators during their time, but very poor imitators who paled in comparison to the original. 4. Critically, Nirvana is more accepted because they were politically correct. Gnr were the complete opposite of politically correct. The media is simply liberal and more prone to Kurt's tastes than Axl's. All in all, both bands rock in their own way. I don't think either band is better than the other-just different personalties involved. :-\

WHAT????????????!!  How can you compare the lirycs???

Kurt was the anti rock star and Axl was living the rock star style and people shifted to Nirvana and that hurt guns a lot I think but its Guns For me Axl the best

I'd go with Axl.

I would go with Axl to people seem to be getting into guns n' roses and there was that Nirvana phase in 2002/2003 but 2004 is Axl's year if only he'd drop the cd

I'm going with Axl but you cant compare the 2, two different styles of music. Back then it was okay to  like both...but I love Axl and always will.

 :drool:

I'd have to say Axl. : ok:

I think with Axl it's more of an underground thing. Kurts bigger in the mainstream. Around the NY/NJ area we hear alot of nirvana on the radio still and not much GnR. They were so different it's odd comparing them. Axl was much more of a performer especially onstage. A showman I guess is the term and their song writing and singing styles were very different.

Kurt Cobain
 
"His role has been played for years. Ever since the beginning of rock and roll, there's been an Axl Rose. And it's just boring. It's totally boring to me. Why it's such a fresh and new thing in his eyes is obviously because it's happening to him personally and he's such an egotistical person that he thinks that the whole world owes him something."
 
"I don't want to act like Axl Rose and have my own bus or my own back room area."
 
"Apparently Axl was in a really bad mood. Something set him off, probably just minutes before our encounter with him. We were in the food tent and I was holding my daughter, Frances, and he came strutting by with five of his huge bodyguards and a person with a movie camera. Courtney jokingly screamed out at him, "Axl, will you be the godfather of our child?" Everyone laughed. We had a few friends around us, and he just stopped dead in his tracks and started screaming all these abusive words at us. He told me I should shut my bitch up, so I looked over at Courtney and said, "Shut up, bitch, heh!" Everyone started howling with laughter and Axl just kind of blushed and went away. Afterward, we heard that Duff [McKagan, GNR bassist] wanted to beat Chris up."
 
"I think it's pretty obvious that we're against the homophobes and the sexists and the racists, but when "Teen Spirit" first came out, mainstream audiences were under the assumption that we were just like Guns N' Roses."
 
"There is a war going on in the high schools now between Nirvana kids and Guns N' Roses kids. It's really cool."
 
 
AD= Advacote
KC= Kurt Cobain
 
AD: Is there anything about Guns N' Roses' music you like?
KC: I can't think of a damn thing. I can't even waste my time on that band, because they're so obviously pathetic and untalented. I used to think that everything in the mainstream pop world was crap, but now that some underground bands have been signed with majors, I take Guns N' Roses as more of an offense. I have to look into it more: They're really talentless people, and they write crap music, and they're the most popular rock band on the earth right now. I can't believe it.

AD: Didn't Axl Rose say something nasty to you at the MTV Video Music Awards in September?

KC: They actually tried to beat us up. Courtney and I were with the baby in the eating area backstage, and Axl walked by. So Courtney yelled, "Axl! Axl, come over here!" We just wanted to say hi to him--we think he's a joke, but we just wanted to say something to him. So I said, "Will you be the godfather of our child?" I don't know what had happened before that to piss him off, but he took his aggressions out on us and began screaming bloody murder.

These were his words: "You shut your bitch up, or I'm taking you down to the pavement." [laughs] Everyone around us just burst out into tears of laughter. She wasn't even saying anything mean, you know? So I turned to Courtney and said, "Shut up, bitch!" And everyone laughed and he left. So I guess I did what he wanted me to do--be a man. [laughs]

AD: Does he remind you of guys you went to high school with?

KC: Absolutely. Really confused, fucked-up guys. There's not much hope for them.

AD: When he was singing about "immigrants and faggots," people were excusing it by saying, "Well, he's from Indiana-"

KC: Oh, well, that's OK then. [Laughs] Insane. Later, after we played our show and were walking back to our trailer, the Guns N' Roses entourage came walking toward us. They have at least 50 bodyguards apiece: huge, gigantic, brain-dead oafs ready to kill for Axl at all times. [Laughs] They didn't see me, but they surrounded Chris, and Duff [McKagan of Guns N' Roses] wanted to beat Chris up, and the bodyguards started pushing Chris around. He finally escaped, but throughout the rest of the evening, there was a big threat of either Guns N' Roses themselves or their goons beating us up. We had to hide out.

Since then, every time Axl has played a show he's said some comment about me and Courtney. When he was in Seattle, he said "Nirvana would rather stay home and shoot drugs with their bitch wives than tour with us." [Laughs] That's why there's this big feud in most of the high schools. It's hilarious. He is insane, though. I was scared. I couldn't possibly beat him up; I know he would beat me up if he had the chance.

AD: How do you feel about Guns N' Roses fans coming to see you?

KC: Well, when we played that No on 9 benefit in Portland, I said something about Guns N' Roses. Nothing nasty - I think I said, "And now, for our next song, 'Sweet Child o' Mine.'" But some kid jumped onstage and said, "Hey, man, Guns N' Roses plays awesome music, and Nirvana plays awesome music. Let's just get along and work things out, man!"

And I just couldn't help but say, "No, kid, you're really wrong. Those people are total sexist jerks, and the reason we're playing this show is to fight homophobia in a real small way. The guy is a fucking sexist and a racist and a homophobe, and you can't be on his side and be on our side. I'm sorry that I have to divide this up like this, but it's something you can't ignore. And besides they can't write good music." [Laughs]

It was said that Axl liked Nirvana's music.

He wore a 'Nirvana' cap on the set of the making of the 'Don't cry' video.

Axl has never publicly replied to any of Kurt's comments.

My hate for KC grows more and more every time I read something like this. Nirvana's music was and will always be garbage. Anyone who thinks Gn'R are talentless can suck me!

Axl hands down...this year is a GNR year...and would be even more so if CD gets released

This thread is really a send up tot he old adage of whether it is better to burn out or fade away if ya think about it.

i think this is the year of Axl.. i know few ex-grunge addicts who are now hooked on GnR cuz of the greatest hits.. and GnR's getting more radio play than Nirvana (as far as i know)..

since this is an Axl vs Kurt thread.. anyone mind explaining to me what happened in the 92 vma's? cuz as far as i know, Axl was a fan of Nirvana.. so what exactly happened that devided all the nirvana and gnr fans?

everyone was backstage at trailers or some shit and courteney and kurt were there with their baby. Courteney started yelling things at Axl and asking if he wanted to be the babys godfather so Axl turned to Kurt and said "you better tell your bitch to shut the fuck up". And Kirt said "yo bitch shut the fuck up" and laughed at Axl.

Looking at how well the Greatest Hits album is doing, Velvet Revolver, and the possibility the album is coming out in November. GNR is much more relevant.

I would have to say Guns N' Roses as a whole..not just Axl..
Nirvana had there year. Its GnR/Axl now..But like alot of peope said they are two totally diffrent music styles.. Personally I dislike grunge and Nirvana, no offence to anyone who does though...Axl and GnR (and Velvet Revolver lol) are King this year
Erin

This is Kurt's year!
Anniversary... 10 years  :'( :'( :'(

Axl but Kurt was more popular by far in the '94 era.

lol  :rofl: good joke

both guys (axl and kurt) are very genius and talented. and almost same problems: manic depressive's, childhood trauma's etc


"Axl has never publicly replied to any of Kurt's comments".

When he (axl) was in Seattle, he said "Nirvana would rather stay home and shoot drugs with their bitch wives than tour with us."

 that this fake? ehhh...


sorry my english :)

erm... that isn't really a reply.. just a bit of good-old bitchin'!

I really can't pick, I admire both so much and they're both LEGENDS and ICONS in music and will forever be remembered for their contributions. Two frontmen, each with their own bands who changed rock n' roll but the MUSIC INDUSTRY in general forever!!!!

From the October '96 issue of Guitar World, in an interview with Kurt Cobain:

GW:? Maybe this would be a good time to address some of the rumors that have
plagued you.? When Nevermind hit, there were reports that you were a
narcoleptic.

Cobain:? No, no...that was just a story I made up to explain why I slept so
much.? I used to find myself sleeping a lot before shows.? A lot of times the
backstage area is such a gross scene, I don't want to talk to anybody. So I
just fall asleep.? There are so many people that we know now, so many friends
and stuff that I can't ask them to leave.? I don't want to act like Axl Rose
and have my own bus or my own back room area.

GW:? Speaking of Axl, what is the story behind your altercation with him
backstage at the 1992 MTV Music Awards?

Cobain:? Well, apparently Axl was in a really bad mood.? Something set him
off, probably just minutes before our encounter with him.? We were in the
food tent and I was holding my daughter, Frances, and he came strutting by
with five of his huge bodyguards and a person with a video camera.? Courtney
jokingly screamed out at him "Axl, will you be the godfather of out child?"
 Everyone laughed.? We had a few friends around us, and he just stopped dead
in his tracks and started screaming all these abusive words at us.? He told
me to shut my bitch up, so I looked at Courtney and said "Shut up, bitch,
heh!"? Everyone started howling with laughter and Axl just kind of
blushed and
went away.? Afterward, we heard that Duff [Mckagan, GNR bassist] wanted to
beat Chris up.

Later on, it says:

Cobain:........But other than that, I've never thought of the Guns N'
Roses,Metallica and U2 offers as any kind of legitimate offer.? They just
were never a reality to me.
 

Q: Didn't Axl Rose say something nasty to you at the MTV Video Music
Awards in September?

A:? They actually tried to beat us up.? Courtney and I were with the baby
in the eating area backstage, and Axl walked by.? So Courtney yelled,
"Axl!? Axl, come over here!"? We just wanted to say hi to him--we think
he's a joke, but we just wanted to say something to him.? So I said,
"Will you be the godfather of our child?"? I don't know what had
happened before that to piss him off, but he took his aggressions
out on us and began screaming bloody murder.
? ? These were his words: "You shut your bitch up, or I'm taking you down
to the pavement." [laughs] Everyone around us just burst out into tears of
laughter.? She wasn't even saying anything mean, you know?? So I turned
to Courtney and said, "Shut up, bitch!"? And everyone laughed and he left.
So I guess I did what he wanted me to do--be a man. [laughs]

Kurt told this story to the crowd at the Portland OR 9/10/92 concert, try
to get it if you can.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Is there anything about Guns N' Roses' music you like?

A: I can't think of a damn thing.? I can't even waste my time on that band,
because they're so obviously pathetic and untalented.? I used to think that
everything in the mainstream pop world was crap, but now that some
underground bands have been signed with majors, I take Guns N' Roses as
more of an offense.? I have to look into it more: They're really
talentless people, and they write crap music, and they're the most popular
rock band on the earth right now.? I can't believe it.




 :rant:

This last part really gets me.? I love Nirvana, and I know Kurt hated GN'R, but how can he justify saying Guns N' Roses were an untalented band?? This from the "legend" who filled his albums with three-chord punk-metal sludge that was, largely, less catchy a lot of the time than the media would have you think.? Say what you will, you can't deny that GN'R wrote great songs, Slash was an unbelievable guitarist, and Axl was a charismatic frontman.? And if you do deny that, then you'd better have one hell of a band to back that claim up.

Nirvana wrote a lot of great songs, but they were nowhere near as talented as Guns N' Roses.

Nirvana is as good as avril lavigne...for me they're the same shit...or better, they are shit from the same asshole... :peace:

Kurt Cobain obsession of Axl Rose...do you know how it's called? it's something called....hmm...."jalousy".
Cobain was definitely jalous of Mr Rose.

Dead horse.

2004 was kurts year simply because: WITH THE LIGHTS OUT BOXSET

i doubt it. it hasnt sold that much in the UK WITH THE LIGHTS OUT.

Duh Axl, who else? Kurt couldn't play guitar, sing or even write decent songs.

your so dumb! :P

But he's so right!

the last song on nirvana concerts was destruction, that says a lot. mr selfdestruction kurt. i go with axl rose in 2004.

Why the extra wheel? More like a unicycle and a Mercedes Benz! :hihi:

no way. Kurt Cobain was WAY more talented than Axl could ever be. Axl is a fuckin recluse and a sellout. Kurt was a much better lyricist and songwriter, and to everyone who disagrees, he had really good riffs. By the way, SLTS was WAY more popular than NV or SCOM.

Random. Everyone is always comparing Kurt and Axl!

 I think that if you go out and ask anyone on the street they're going to opt for the dead guy (because everyone becomes a martyr when they die young, whether you like it or not!) rather than the guy who's just plain... not there.  :-\
Just my opinion though  ;)

Em Xx

I'd havta agree w/ *rightnextdoor....
and yeah, it's comparing whats better to burn out/fade away.  I think ppl idolize Kurt (although many ppl idolize axl as well)...and remember, we're not comparing who is "better" just whose year it was (in 2004).  Obvioulsy both are/were critical musicians....
we'd havta tally up record sales for the year, murch. sales, ebay sales, radio airplay, public + media opinion...so its tough to say.
IMO, I can't really say...but I do keep a good ear to the ground in terms of media (I read a lot of music mags/music shows...) and I've noticed WAY more coverage w/ gnr...I think a lot of it hasta do w/ VR (!!) and the GH.  I didn't see that much coverage on Nirvana's box set...surprisingly!

Er, according to who? Ask any fucking guitarist what he thinks is a better riff , SLTS or SCOM/NV... The solo for SLTS is the tune for the chorus, played out on guitar, for starters  :hihi: . Any fucking kid can play that.

Kurt came up with some great riffs!!...."ask any guitartist whats the better riff".... fuck off :drool:...There is no "better riff"!!!..Classical guitar is alot harder to play than rock but it doesn't make it better music! A fan of classical music might think so, same way nirvana fans would enjoy Kurts simple riffs over a complicated GnR riff. and vice versa. How many "riffs" has Axl ever written anyways?  By the way "any kid", (in fact the majority of people) can't play Kurts tunes properly, especially while attempting to sing them , let along write the fuckers!  Kurt and Axl are both one of the best in modern rock music and can't be compared to each other.

Fuck You! I'm tired of arguing. You're right about one thing though, Axl and Kurt should'nt be compared. That was what my first post was abt! You can go play your classical "harder-to-play" Smells Like Teen Shit, for all i care...

I agree with a couple of you. Since Kurt died young, people will go with him, but of course on this board most people will go with Axl.

In my opinion Axl is a lot more exciting. AND if Axl would have died in 91-92 he would be up there with Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and the others. Damn right!

Of course I'm glad he is still alive, cause when/if the album comes out it's gonna be the biggest release this decade..

OK here's my two cents...

Axl is the bigger star. 

Reality Check:  Kurt is dead.  People may have loved his stuff, but I think the reality is (although we'll never really know) is that if he hadn't blown his brains out (or someone did it for him, whatever theory you choose to accept) he would have probably gone the route other bands before him have --> been successful, and then the music genre starts to die away to make way for the next big thing. 

The only thing that has made Kurt a legend is the fact that he decided to take his life away from his fans before they were ready to let go.  Had he not have killed himself/gotten killed, I doubt his legend would be what it is today.  We have gotten a few "new" previously unpublished works, but, he can't create music anymore.  Because he's dead.  So anything "new" we get isn't actually new, it's just stuff that they kicked around before he died.

Axl on the other hand can actually still create music.   That he has chosen not to release it yet doesn't make him any less able to do it.  So, the one with the potential to be the bigger star is obviously Axl. 

And besides, Nirvana is ok... but, compared to Guns? 

Of course, it's all just my opinion, but whose opinion did you expect me to express, anyway?

I love Kurt and Nirvana to death but Im sorry

but Axl Rose is the definition of the word Rock Star  :peace:

I dunno, I love both bands, but while I think GNR is coming back, especially with greatest hits out, I think Nirvana, and Kurt, retain more star power, least from what I see. If CD would get released though, I think GnR would dominate, lol

As to be expected, the antithesis of rock has his opinion of Guns and feels he needs to offer it up...

Get in the Ring: And Insult Axl Rose
?They?re really talentless people, and they write crap music, and they?re the most popular rock band on the Earth right now. I can?t believe it.? ?Kurt Cobain on Guns N? Roses

what I can't understand is how the world turned in to grunge lovers because of this guy...I know there are some Nirvana lovers out there but how can Kurt Cobain make any comments about "talent"...aside from power chords...Kurt's orignal catalog would be empty. Although Power chords are very important, they don't require much talent to play.

Also, when u watch Guns, you have a good time. Kurt's songs are all about how fucked up and depressed he is. He sings in a long, drawn out tone. Why was everyone so enthralled in songs that were meant to make u sad and depressed?

Atleast we can understand what Axl is saying...and I know he was thinking he was being "artsy" by singing the way he did...I say screw that. Unnunciation and communicating are two key parts to singing.

If Kurt thought he was being cool with his lack of unnunciation than he should remember that Zubba pants were cool when he was spouting out his artsy tones.

Sometimes I feel like you're beating a Dead Horse..

k

Which is why they moved it here ;)

GN'R vs Nirvana? It's Kurt thats throwing shit on Axl, not the whole band!
And give it up guys, Kurt Cobain is fucking dead.. Is anybody enjoying listening to things Kurt said about Axl 12-13 years ago.. And come on.. We can't do anything, so why do you even bother?  ???

Kurt was crap

No, Kurt was real.

wot duz that mean? Axl is a robot

No it mean Kurt was a whiney bitch who felt sorry for himself and never saw how good he had it, Js like most ungrateful fucks on this planet.

Js playing I love Nirvana, I dont know what he means by that.But I love GnR a fuck of alot more than Nirvana.  :peace:

o rite. Kurt has no respect 4 n e 1

Cool Statistics....but I wouldn't say Axl had a superior life... Read about him.

No, he means Kurt is a real dickhead.

i'll agree on that 1 m8.

This is how I see it.  Gn'R was a great band that was full of great musicians, and they wrote awesome songs about a multitude of topics.  They were real rock stars.  They enjoyed what they did, lived their lives to the fullest, and for the most part are still making music today (Velvet Revolver, Izzy's solo stuff.  Nirvana was an over rated band full of mediocore musicians.  They wrote a bunch of songs about being a whiny depressed little sissy because it was cool to be whiny and depressed at the time.  Kurt Cobain was a highly disturbed individual.  Much more so than Axl.  He married Courtney Love and then killed himself.  In the end, Nirvana was a fad, while GN'R is still big today even though they haven't put out an original album since 1991.  So I guess if you're looking for some whiny dude to tell you how much life sucks you can listen to Nirvana.  Me, I prefer songs about drinkin', drugs, women, love, crime, insanity, and being a bad-ass dude.

Genesis, shut the fuck up. You are a real dickhead. Don't speak for me, either. Rob, you think Nirvana is all mediocre musicians? Dave Grohl is a better drummer than any GNR drummer. Whether you like Nirvana, GNR, or neither, it's obvious that Dave has more skill. Krist Novoselic has much more catchy basslines than Duff, who I don't have any respect for. 'Lounge Act' 'Sliver' 'Come As You Are' etc. Better basslines. Izzy and Slash are better guitarists than Kurt, because Kurt was influenced by Greg Ginn, Dr. Know, and other punk guitarists. Songs like 'Smells Like Teen Spirit', 'Breed' 'Territorial Pissings' etc show that he sticks to the power chord most of the time, and it's apparent that 'Sweet Child of Mine' and 'Nightrain' are more complex. He is a great lyricist however. He wrote better songs than Axl (probably because Izzy wrote a lot of GNR's tunes). I think you guys should know your shit and stop being close-minded douchebags. Think and use knowledge before you remark to this.

No, plum nuts, I was speaking for the world in general. Kurt was a stupid dickhead and nothing u post is EVER gonna change that. Get used to it. If he hadn't shot his fucking brains out, i'm sure somebody else would've.  :hihi:

That's real low. I can't change the way you think and feel, but I still think you're a dick. I'm sure you think I'm a dick too. Oh well.

Axl=legend kurt cobain=moany goon

Anybody that believes that Nirvana is better than GNR is fuckin crazy :beer:

'I tried to see it ur way, won't work today....'

Dave Grohl better than Matt Sorum :-\

I think that sums it up best.  Kurt didn't write better songs.  Most of his songs were about how much his life sucked.  Duff has plenty of cool baselines, and he also wrote some very good riffs including the riff for Paradise City.  Dave Grohl is a good drummer.  I was wrong on that, but I do not think he was as good as Steve Adler.

Smells Like Teen Spirit - about laziness of our own generation
In Bloom - about people who sing to songs but don't know what they're singing about
Come As You Are - contradictions about how society thinks we should act versus how we do act
Breed - about growing up in a middle class family
Lithium - about religion and how it saved a guys life (not Kurt's, he wasn't religious)
Polly - an anti-rape song about a girl who was torturted in 1984 (not sure if the year is correct)
Territorial Pissings - a dislike towards macho men
Drain You - a love song (not to Courtney)
Lounge Act - views on certain things but being smothered by a relationship
Stay Away - this one is pretty obvious
On A Plain - random poetry lines of Kurt's put together
Something In The Way - about when Kurt lived under a bridge, homeless

So there is the song meanings from Nevermind. I don't see songs about how much he hates his life and wants to die. Another thing, no way in hell is Adler a better drum than Grohl. No fucking way. Welcome To The Jungle is the most easy song to play on drums ever. Look at songs like SLTS, In Bloom, Stay Away, Aneruysm, Scentless Apprentice, etc/ Grohl > Adler.

Axl=legend kurt cobain=moany goon


I think that sums it up best.  Kurt didn't write better songs.  Most of his songs were about how much his life sucked.  Duff has plenty of cool baselines, and he also wrote some very good riffs including the riff for Paradise City.  Dave Grohl is a good drummer.  I was wrong on that, but I do not think he was as good as Steve Adler.

Thanks!! Cool to know someone fells the same way! Kurt Cobain is, sorry was a complete tool

i've hurd all nirvana and gn'r songs. Nirvana r fuking bolox! ne 1 hu thinx theyr betta than guns ( alot of ppl @ my skool. theyr fukt in the hed) r fuking mad.

the likenesses are interesting i dont think i could choose between the two they are my favourite bands :hihi:

The whole thing were Kurt called GN'R talentless and said they wrote crap is the only thing I'll hold against him. Where does he get off saying that? You can dislike GN'R for being racist or sexist or whatever, but to say that they have no talent is assinine.

The feud was in 1992!

It is now 2006!

GET OVER IT!

Yes, we should talk about current GNR events, like.. er... yeah.

Guns N' Roses vs Nirvana............. What's next.

im sorry... but does anyone feel that Kurt Cobain sounds very "high school" in most of these quotes? its just immature. (not saying Axl hasn't done the same... im just pointin out kurt)

Kurt is dead, Axl not yet, Kurt's band is only famous cause he died nothing more, Axl's band is more than just a name is icon in eveything of music industry and has influence more than Nirvana did, GNR VS Nirvana? all the way GNR has to win cause nirvana is just the past.

axl should have kicked kurt?s ass and made him sign  to open the tour for gn?r, so he?d see that no one messes with GN?R. On the other hand, some people maybe wouldn?t go to the show to avoid hearing kurt?s sad and frustrated music.

still, i think nirvana was an important part of our rock n roll history, a good band, that could have given a little bit more, but, please, don?t compare them to gn?r, they?re kids playing with riffs compared to guns n roses.

Plus should they reallly be here either then? This is an unofficial GUNS N' ROSES SITE!!!!!

"He married Courtney Love then he killed himself" ( I'm not sure if that's the way it was said)

Well wouldn't you kill yourself after that too? LOL J/P  :hihi:

I can't stand Nirvana. I really don't like that band.

That's not funny.

Hmm I disagree. Have you seen Courtney on the Roast of Pamela Anderson? Ewwww. :drool:

I think jonathan is talking bout making fun of others misery  :-\

Yes, I was.

Stealthcamo, you are not funny.

The way I see it, you can listen to Nirvana songs once, and then you get sick of them for a while. I could listen to the same Gn'R songs over and over again. Gn'R songs are just so much more complex that it takes longer to get sick of them.

By the way, considering the bleakness of most Nirvana songs, isn't the name a little ironic?

Sam I dont know if its better to get sick of Nirvana's songs faster, some people would say that its easier to get into the catchy songs of GNR. Well its only another thought.

     On the other hand I used to think Nirvana was crap and maybe their music wasnt that complex compared to GNR's but after reading some interviews Kubain gave when was still alive, I started to respect him much more, things like he was PRO - gay, are interested, and I realized that even when Im a gnr fan, Kubain was more mature than Axl, and he -- Kubain -- stated that Axl used to complain about Nirvana in some of those years concerts,and it looks like Axl didnt get through it cause, he still complained about Kubain in RIR 3.

Axl Vs. Kurt?  Musically Axl. Lyrically and as a person Kubain --  strange to say considering he commited suicide --.

   Guys read more about Kubain, he had some interesting things to say regardless of his music, dont bash him just because he said crap but true things about Axl.

Nirvana is ok but if Kurt didnt die they would have been just another band imo.

If Kurt was mature he wouldn't have killed himself.  Axl went through some terrible shit during his life, but he always got through it.  He didn't give up and end it all like Cobain.

I feel that Kobain was more mature in the things he did when he was alive, like helping gay people. But its only a matter of opinion.

More mature than Axl, at least...I don't recall Kurt getting arrested at an airport for threatening a security guard about mistreating some luggage.

I agree with you Mr. Sam

You mean to say that kick starting judge is not only not a musical crime, but is a positive? Grunge killed Rock N' Roll!

I agree with you, being mature its to accept things in life as they come and never give up, if Axl is or not mature i think is not why Kurt hated or dislike GNR he just think IMO that his way of think is just wrong, but who's him to say someone whats wrong or right? after all he was a junkie too and he doesn't make a fine example to lead, none of them.

I read that  Kurt didnt like GNR, in part because of Axl's statements against homosexuals.

Yeah, I don't get how people look up to Cobain as some kind of hero.  He was a drug addict who couldn't handle the pressures of fame and decided to take the stupid way out.  I guess you have to feel for the guy, but I damn sure wouldn't look up to him.

In my case man, I respect Cobain, cause the things he did when was still alive, I dont care if he comitted suicide or if he was a junkie, regardless of that he created different music, and made some interesting statements, on the other hand I didnt like that some songs had suicidal messages, or depressive messages, damn now almost all the so called rock bands talk about feeling depressed and stuff.. FTS.

Kurt Cobain sucks.   Seriously, that is the one person I refuse to like.  Once u talk shit on the original GnR then we have some problems.  I don't want to be a dick, but he sucks! 


If you really have something to say you better back off bitch!

That was deep, but man honestly Kobain doesnt suck that much.

Kurt might not have had as much talent as a lot of rock singers, but he was in a grunge band so he could get away with it. Nirvana and Gn'R had such different stlyes; it's hard to compare them.

Cobain couldnt handle the pressure... fuckheads, if it was because of that he killed himself, he would have done it some time after nevermind came out.
In 1994 there was a lot less pressure, he was clinically depressed but never treated for it obviously!
he fell into depression during touring in europe and a heroin habbit? and killed himself after a failed drug rehab while he fell into depression again, that is IF he even killed himself.
The "suicide" note didnt make any sence at al, it looks more like a journal entry... but thats just my opinion.
 
Kurt was an artist, non of you play any instruments i guess, if you did you would know how fucking hard it is to CREATE a strong melodic song! like; Sappy, breed, teen spirit, milk it... the list goes on....? THAT takes talent!
sure he was crap technically at playing guitar.
Everybody knows slash was responsible for the crunchy rockers like paradice city, locomotive, WTTJ, etc. Axl has NOTHING to do with that, Where exactly lies his musical talent in these songs?? (we'll find out in march!)
Slash's end piece in november rain makes the whole song work.
You people dont know anything about nirvana obviously.

And Adler a better drummer then Grohl!?? ? GeT ReAl MaN!? ?Dave nearly destroys a drumkit just by playing it!
adler's style is best described as talentless!? listen to what he did on paradise city, My grandmom can play that!
He couldnt sing? have you heard what Axl's voice sounds like LIVE (pre 2002)?? yeah man... rrrrreallly beautiful.
Kurt had an awesome voice.

If an album takes 13 years to make it better be the best album you ever heard?
some of you will eat shit and say youll like it as long as it is axl's so even if the album sounds terrible you will stil like it, you're just axlblind or something.

Nirvana are immortal, Axl is a living legend.
guns n roses now is a 1-man-band, the rest of em are shameless profitters of other people's creations, working for axl to put on the axl-show (which is a good show i guess).
How as a "true" GNR fan can you except those 2nd hand replacements as GNR?

Brahman

Interesting statements, I share some of your ideas  not all of them...  anyway You seem more a Nirvana fan than a GNR fan... which is strange here man...

So to be a better drummer you have to destroy the drum kit? I dont think if Grohl was better than Adler I think both fit well in the music they play, dont get me wrong, both are talent drummers but cant we compare for once is into more hard rocking and grooving style and the other is more agressive and pounding style.
Axl did nothing in november rain? I think that song only in piano without guitar is plain masterpiece, yet is only matter of opinions.
If album takes 13 year to make it doesnt mean squad! the best thing, the worst thing could be just a freaking opinion, you know how many people haven't heard AFD more than 3 million just in my country (fuck I did a research man that was horrible  :-X ) so as i said before it means nothing.
Nirvana inmortal perhaps, Axl living legend perhaps, at least Axl can take all that crap and still walk away without putting a bullet in his head (ovbiously if Kurt didnt killed himself)

Well, here in Turkey Nirvana is known like 1000 times better then gn'r.So to those who sayed nirvana is dead gn'r is much bigger, atleast that rule doesn't exist here.And to the ones who says kurt is lame and all, i don't think that any nirvana forum has 7 pages of axl.I mean come the fuck on.The guy changed music.I think he is the one responsible for hard rocks death.Cause he showed the world that even with 3 notes you can make good songs.Ofcourse then the music got fucked up, but it wasn't his attention.I do believe that he was jelious of axl and axl was way more talented.And i hate him for calling them tallentless, but i like his songs and love his careless rocker attitude then axl's superstar attitude.And axl just fucked up the name gn'r for more then a decade.I wish he commited suicide or got killed right before the video shooting for since i don't have you.Then critics would compare him to even john lennon...

well...  Just read past interview statements of Kurt on axl, i dont think he was jelous of him.

I think Kurt was great, even when I dont like most of his songs...

Nirvana has about 10 really good songs when GN'R has..... how many songs they have released?

You ve gotta recognize that Kobain's stage presence is extremely good... even in the unplugged that guy had a huge personality, a real rock star.

http://drunkendelight.com/view.php?id=3202

anyone ver see kurt cobain get hit by the bouncer

No had never seen that before!

Why did the Bouncer react that way? Kurt clipped him accidently with his guitar didn't he? The Bouncer fucking hammered him with that punch!

When I heard of the Axl/Kurt feud, I wasn't surprised because I was never really fond of Nirvana. I did listen to them when I was in 8th grade to see what they sounded like, but wasn't impressed.

My first impression is that Kurt cheapshotted some bouncer cause he had the chance to hit a meathead. Maybe he could've been trying to swing himself & guitar back onstage, but he sure did it right at the bouncer.

I think both misconstrued the others contact as acts of aggression.

Reading the interview of Kurt Cobain.  I don't understand why would Slah and Duff be all praising Nirvana.  I saw some interviews with Slash and Duff on VH1 were they say good things about Nirvana.

I dig Nirvana's music but I don't know why would he think GN'R doesn't know how to write good lyrics or music. 


AD: Didn't Axl Rose say something nasty to you at the MTV Video Music Awards in September?

KC: They actually tried to beat us up. Courtney and I were with the baby in the eating area backstage, and Axl walked by. So Courtney yelled, "Axl! Axl, come over here!" We just wanted to say hi to him--we think he's a joke, but we just wanted to say something to him. So I said, "Will you be the godfather of our child?" I don't know what had happened before that to piss him off, but he took his aggressions out on us and began screaming bloody murder.

These were his words: "You shut your bitch up, or I'm taking you down to the pavement." [laughs] Everyone around us just burst out into tears of laughter. She wasn't even saying anything mean, you know? So I turned to Courtney and said, "Shut up, bitch!" And everyone laughed and he left. So I guess I did what he wanted me to do--be a man. [laughs]

AD: Does he remind you of guys you went to high school with?

KC: Absolutely. Really confused, fucked-up guys. There's not much hope for them.

AD: When he was singing about "immigrants and faggots," people were excusing it by saying, "Well, he's from Indiana-"

KC: Oh, well, that's OK then. [Laughs] Insane. Later, after we played our show and were walking back to our trailer, the Guns N' Roses entourage came walking toward us. They have at least 50 bodyguards apiece: huge, gigantic, brain-dead oafs ready to kill for Axl at all times. [Laughs] They didn't see me, but they surrounded Chris, and Duff [McKagan of Guns N' Roses] wanted to beat Chris up, and the bodyguards started pushing Chris around. He finally escaped, but throughout the rest of the evening, there was a big threat of either Guns N' Roses themselves or their goons beating us up. We had to hide out.

Since then, every time Axl has played a show he's said some comment about me and Courtney. When he was in Seattle, he said "Nirvana would rather stay home and shoot drugs with their bitch wives than tour with us." [Laughs] That's why there's this big feud in most of the high schools. It's hilarious. He is insane, though. I was scared. I couldn't possibly beat him up; I know he would beat me up if he had the chance.

AD: How do you feel about Guns N' Roses fans coming to see you?

KC: Well, when we played that No on 9 benefit in Portland, I said something about Guns N' Roses. Nothing nasty - I think I said, "And now, for our next song, 'Sweet Child o' Mine.'" But some kid jumped onstage and said, "Hey, man, Guns N' Roses plays awesome music, and Nirvana plays awesome music. Let's just get along and work things out, man!"

And I just couldn't help but say, "No, kid, you're really wrong. Those people are total sexist jerks, and the reason we're playing this show is to fight homophobia in a real small way. The guy is a fucking sexist and a racist and a homophobe, and you can't be on his side and be on our side. I'm sorry that I have to divide this up like this, but it's something you can't ignore. And besides they can't write good music." [Laughs]

AD: You know, you were probably taking money from people who were voting yes on 9 - but they really wanted to see Nirvana.

KC: [Laughs] Right! Chris went to a Guns N' Roses concert when they played here with Metallica a couple of months ago, and he went backstage, and there were these two bimbo girls who looked like they walked out of a Warrant video. They were sitting on the couch in hopes of sucking Axl's dick or something, and one of them said, "Chris, we saw you at that No on 9 benefit! We're voting yes on 9! You kissed Kurt on the lips! That was disgusting!" [Laughs] To know that we affect people like that-it's kind of funny. The sad thing is that there's no penetrating them. After all that, after all the things those girls had seen us do, that was the one thing that sticks in their minds.


http://www.nirvana-music.com/kurt-cobain-advocate-interview.html

Nirvana was progressive rock.

Guns N' Roses weren't progressive, and Kurt saw them as a hindrance to the music scene.

isnt this dead horse?

Kurt Cobain was the biggest poser in the history of rock.

All he did was whine and bitch about how he hated being famous and he didn't want to be a star, but did he ever turn down a photoshoot? Hell no. He was a fake and a fraud.

And to say that GN'R can't write good music? What the hell do you call the shit that Nirvana thought was 'music' then? Nirvana are the most fucking overrated pieces of shit ever.

kurt cobain was a joke and without him shooting himself in the fucking head and leaving his wife and kid behind like a coward, no one would even remember him. like the LA weekly article said, kurt must be spinning around in his grave like a record as axl prepares to save the face of rock in 2006. :smoking:

hahahahhahahahaha another bashing kurt thread. Kurt won that ordeal at the award show big time. Funny stuff.

O btw burninghills, kurt turned down lots of stuff, he turned down a tour that wouldve made him millions just because he didn't feel like doing it. Go listen to iron maiden.

what the fuck has iron maiden got to do with anything?
go buy a guitar with your dad's money and write dark and boring music in his garage, be a "rebel", the grunge "movement" was a fucking joke if i've ever seen one.

Kurt bashing still exists in this day and age?  Sad.

yes, a brat with a guitar didn't really hold my interest.
go dig him up and ask him where the rock he "saved" went.

He didn't save rock, but he helped end the crap.  and some people are still bitter about it.  Sad.

why are you even here?
such a loser. sad. :no:

ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyy GOD.

Fucking dead HORSE. Jesus. Quit fucking up the damn board noobs.  :rant:

What band from England covered Madagascar?  What was the name of them I wanna see if I can download it.

It's not being released.

I love the fact that Kurt talks about really confused fucked-up guys, and yet this is the fellow that was a huge junkie, married courtney love, then decided to shoot himself in the face. Yeah, sounds like our man kurt really had his shit together.

madagascar isn't even released yet and already covered, axl is a living legend and with no new material in 15 years he has the biggest buzz in rock, kurt just... shall we say... died?

the only thing kurt "ended" was his fucking life.

i'm out.

biggest buzz in rock? im sorry, but to be honest even kevin federline has more buzz than ?white-trash? axl rose.... face it dude, RIGHT NOW cobain is a music legend, and unless axl dies.. if he keeps on the way he is doing he is just going to fade away..
 

guess so

this is older than dirt, go watch some more VH1 reahashes of 80's & 90's MTV

Yeah bro Kurt Cobain the living legend!!!! REPRESENT! Bland overrated music for all!

 ::)

DEAD FUCKING HORSE.

How on earth did he end the crap?
They actually killed the music scene, only shit after shit came after this "grunge" thing. I stopped listening to new bands from 96-99 because it just sucked a donkeys cock!
MTV went on a rampage trying to get a new poser and started all this pop making bands or rebellious pets like Manson and nu-metal. Ugh Nirvana didnt save anything, they just killed it by bringing it down to subpar standards.

Dont get me wrong Nirvana music is ok, i like their cds but all this saving stuff is laughable at best. MTV made him a legend dont be fooled people!

Why are you even here then?

I love Nirvana but that doesn't mean I have to take sides. ?It's ridiculously hypocritical for you to come on here insulting Axl Rose implying that he was some sort of fad when you are discussing him 20 years after he first became known. ?

Yeah, a definite deadhorse. ?Kurt was a dirtbag. ?He and Nirvana have to be the most grossly overrated band of the past few decades.

What's truly sad is that if you die earlier than expected (even if you kill yourself), you are treated as an immortal by a generation of mindless mtv viewers.

ended all the crap? ?More like ended all the talent and created a day and age where bands just needed an image without the talent. ?Everyone talks about how grunge came and ended the decadence and basis on the image, all it did was change the image and make it ok to not have talent. ?Kurt Colbain couldnt sing, play or write songs worth a damn. ?Look at Geoff Tate from Queensryche, 500x the talent of any grunge singer yet gets written off as being the leader of a hair band.

Kurt was an idiot, Axls rant about how their baby should be taken away was so true, look how right Axl was. ?

It's an opinion. I think Kurt has amazing voice, and the music is just great.

I totally loathed nirvana, but then I actually "listened" to them and they rock...

nirvana are one of my favourite bands but compared to guns n roses theyre nothing. its like comparing cordial to coca cola. coca cola wins baby.

Couldn't have said it better myself  :smoking:

cordial has a nice taste and it quenches your thirst a little but coca cola tastes incredible and u get addicted to it and you wanting to come back to the fridge for more

Can you explain how Nirvana was progressive rock? =/

I agree with the Queensryche thing. They've been treated like a hair band and haven't had the recognition they deserve ( i think in the states mostly).... but what some people don't know is that their music and some of their records are truly? ?apprecciated by big names in the metal world and therefore have been inspiration to the ones into progressive metal. I like them!

on topic: I never liked Nirvana and never will. well never liked that all grunge thing anyway. ( i dedicate "kill'em all" to that crap? :smoking:...) just my opinion.
 :peace:

Exactly coca cola is adictive and cordial is just good, but that doesnt mean that both have to be compare  : ok:
Wait what are we talking about?  :o  :hihi:

funny to see a thread about two bands that ended about the same time still fighting :hihi:

Lost all respect for Cobain when he called GNR talentless. I still like Nirvana and always will, but he said the same crap about Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam.
I know a lot of people who thought Nirvana was talentless. It's funny how no one ever called Cobain a genius untill he blew his throat out of the back of his neck.....Ironic

you brought up a 2 year old thread to say that  :-\ thanks

Very well said.

I believe Nirvana is one of the most over-rated bands of alltime.

Nirvana were a great band.

I can't think of a bad Nirvana song and In Utero is one of the best rock albums of all time in my opinion. ?:beer:

I used the title to get peoples attention!!! ;D

Do you find it intresting that even after all these years most rock fans would rather see axl make his gnr follow up than have nirvana still make albums!

I know cobain is dead before any1 makes any wise ass remarks about it but i personally don't see many sites or shows on TV saying "if cobain was alive what kinda of music would nirvana be making, would they be the biggest band in the world still"
just thought i would raise this descusion because nirvana supposedly but GnR outta of business!!!
and here we are 10 years after his death and GnR still are more important to rock music than ever.

If this is in the wrong thread please move it!
A little something to get your minds working!

Axl is still alive. So far as long as he is it bodes well, maybe.

agree with all this........ 

What about the singer of INXS?

coinsidence but no comparison

OK,   I really find it disturbing that people always make an contribution on such topics by saying that the guy they liked more is automatically better,  which is - silly,  to say say the list.
Irritated by most comments here,  I'll try to explain my view...
Axl was huuuuggeee Nirvana fan (Kurt wasn't GNR fan, cause hew felt that Axl' tantrums,  sexist and homophobic lyrics are stupid and immature...  Many GNR fans including myself,  felt the same).
Without calling Axl a name,   Axl used to wear Nirvana  cap all the time when they became big (you can see that in Don't cry video when 3 Axl's appear).
He invited Nirvana to play with GNR and Metallica during their summer '92 tour.
As Nirvana turned the offer down,   Axl began to rent about them and burned Nirvana hat on stage.
How immature is that!?
After all,  not only was it Kurt decision who he will play with,  but it turned out be rather smart one too.
We all know how that tour ended and in what relations have Metallica ended up with Axl.
Is there anyone on this planet that stayed with Axl in good realtions??
Back in the days,  I preffered GNR following Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins.
Later on,   Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins left GNR behind by 1 % (needless to say,  due to Axl).
However,   all three are excellent bands.
Kurt did call GNR homophobic and sexist band,   though,  as he remained in good realtions with everyone apart from Axl (Duff was the last celeb to see him alive and offered him a ride home from the airport),   that was most probably to piss Axl off,  as that is very easy to do...
Nirvana and SP had far deeper lyrics.
GNR songs were often plagued by Axl'  unlistenable tantrums (Back off bitch and One in a million are perfect examples of songs ruined by haterate lyrics).
To sum it all up,  Axl,  although a weirdoel,  was better off as he was left by his girlfriends/wifes due to beatings,  Kurt was murdered by Courtney due to upcoming devorce where she would loose half of what she could have as a widow.     Actually,  Courtney is famous for murdering people who plan on leaving her.
What was the name of her bassist found dead only few months earlier???

i love axl's lyrics, they are clever, they are metaphoric

Buddy, Axl's lyrics are about as deep as you can get.  And GN'R weren't plagued by Axl's temper and tantrums.  That anger and aggression made the band what it was.  Without it they would not have been what they were.

the whole thing was poltical...is it any coincidence that Kurt Cobain also had a problem with Sebastian Bach over a t shirt he wore? thats all it was...kurt was a hardcore liberal and he felt that Axl was  some stupid redneck who hated gays and women...if kurt was not so judgemental and actually took a look at what Axl Rose was trying to do and the points he was trying to get across kurt would have realized that he was wrong...kurt judged Axl based off of "one in a million"..i dont know what Axls political views are exactly but i do think that kurt judged axl without even really knowing him

Man, it's not so deep. Political? Who cared about politic? I think that Kurt didn't understand what exactly GN'R is. Simple example:
Kurt was like - everyone knows I'm doing drugs but I won't tell anybody 'cause that's nothing to write home about.
Axl and GN'R at all on the other side were like - Who gives a fuck about the world? I'm feeling bad so that's why I'm doping!

Delete the post if you wish. I'm fuckin' doped and I don't know what's going on...hehe

I disagree, it was very political...kurt was a very liberal guy and he called axl a "homophobe, racist, and a sexist"  Those things bothered kurt...but I think kurt jumped the gun on calling axl all of those things,, where is his evidence?

Suddenly your opinion sounds much less valid.  ::). Sounds like someones a hard core Kurt fan eh? HE KILLED HIMSELF. Get over it.  :hihi:

Anyways.. I'd rather listen to Axl's "unlistenable tantrums" than have him hold his tounge and be politically correct like everyone eles. Haven't you heard Don't Damn Me? I think thats what the whole song is about last time I checked. Axl spoke his mind.. and thats why people either liked him... or hated him.

Oh christ, this discussion is so 1992. ::)

I agree. Well said.

I like Nirvana (not as much as GNR obviously) but when Cobain said that GNR were "so obviously pathetic and untalented" and that "they're really talentless people, and they write crap music...", it comes across almost as if he was jealous.

I'm still trying to work out what Smells Like Teen Spirit is about.? :hihi:

OK, I'm sure this has been posted here in the Dead Horse before, but I don't feel like looking for it outside of the first page. Cobain said this about GN'R way back in the day:



And ironically, I think Cobain is one of the most overrated musicians ever. He's not a great guitarist, and yet somehow effin' Rolling Stone Magazine listed him above a ton of great players like Slash, David Gilmour, Eddie Van Halen, etc. His vocals are annoying as fuck in general (the song "You Know You're Right" has the single most annoying outro vocals EVER. Axl's vocals can get annoying (like the end of "Don't Cry"), but nothing touches Cobain for having annoying vocals. He also doesn't really have much range at all. To call Axl and the rest of GN'R talentless is a load of bullshit and I'm sure even he knew it as he said it.

And then there's his little "confused, fucked-up...not much hope" comment. Wow. Just wow. Hypocritical crap like that is hilarious to read. What's even funnier is he's (likely) burning in hell for committing suicide (I said 'likely' because there is a possibility the conspiracy theories could be true...we'll never know).

I always thought Nirvana was fuckin' overrated as hell. I like their music alright and consider them a good band, but Cobain himself is/was a hypocrite and definitely so overrated it's not even funny.


*Note: For those who are going to bash me for not having heard about this until now, you should know that I was only a little kid when all this garbage was going on. I didn't even know anything about music in general, much less GN'R or Nirvana at the time. I've been a rock music fan for the last 6 or 7 years, and almost immediately I became a GN'R fan. I did know before reading this that there was a feud between Axl and Cobain, but I didn't realize why. Now I fully realize why. If I were Axl I would be pissed at him too. In any event, I just happened to stumble across the interview when reading about "Don't Cry" on Wikipedia, where there was a mention of a Nirvana hat being in the video.*

Nirvana were a great band, but it sickens me to think that the great Kurt actually said those things. Wasn't Duff the last person known to have seen him alive, didn't he once comment on Slash and say somthing compltely differnet in his published scrap book. Axl liked Nirvana, people who think Nirvana were better than GNR should take note.

http://www.nirvana-music.com/kurt-cobain-advocate-interview.html

Well, according to that, he hated GN'R.

He is insane, though. I was scared. I couldn't possibly beat him up; I know he would beat me up if he had the chance. - Kurt Cobain

It's shocking that Kurt said these things about GN'R. Even if you hate GN'R and/or Axl you have to admit they were very talented and the lyrics are talented. Kurt imo is an extremely overrated musician and Nirvana is just as overrated. GN'R own Nirvana lyrically, musically, vocally etc. and I'm not just saying that as GN'R fan. Axl tried to make ends meet with Kurt, but Kurt just threw it back in his face. Kurt was a very jealous man.

Duff sat next to Kurt on a flight to Seattle a week before Kurt commited suicide.

With such GNR negativity, the interview is right to be called the darkside

Lyrically, GN'R had its moments but overall, they sang about the same crap as the hair metal junk before them. Cobain's lyrics weren't much better though. Instead of singing immature stuff like "turn around bitch I got a use for you!" (hilarious, but still immature as hell), Cobain sang about bipolar behavior (which is negative as hell and not what I'd call great songwriting):

"I like it - I'm not gonna crack
I miss you - I'm not gonna crack;
I love you - I'm not gonna crack
I killed you - I'm not gonna crack"

Overall, I would say neither one of them were great songwriters. Great songwriters provide something of meaning to the world (Bob Dylan, etc.). As you've pointed out, GN'R blows Nirvana out of the water when it comes to musical talent.

All i've got to say is who's still alive and who isn't?

I wonder who was more fucked up...

Cobain & Nirvana have gotta be the most overrated guys in the history of music. I liked their stuff, but I didn't love it.

Did KC say something about Slash in his Journal?

One of the great paradoxes in the world is that these people like Cobain claim they're so open minded and accepting, yet are completely judgmental.  Cobain never even knew Axl Rose, but he thought he had him all figured out because of listening to One In A Million.  Cobain was a pretentious hypocrite and a real prick

If anyone hasn't read Life On Planet Rock by Lonn Friend, who used to be the editor of RIP, you should do yourself a favor and read it.  It's a great read and  there's a chapter on GnR and also a chapter on Nirvana.  Cobain comes off as a self righteous asshole

I read that before Kurt got famous he was known to sport an AFD t-shirt.

On subject, even if you think Nirvana are better, I don't see how you could put Kurt above Slash in the top-guitarists because Kurt pretty much plays power-chords in his songs.

Quite possibly one of the greatest & most accurate posts ever in a message board.

Nirvana and Cobain are overrated!

cobain is indeed overrated. i liked his voice but his guitar player skills were very low.

I don't mind Nirvana but it seemed as though he made those comments for the sake of it.

Cobain > Rose


I like both bands, but Nirvana a little more.

If Kurt didn't kill himself, Grunge would've been nothing more than a fad.

kurts comments are just stupid. saying they are talentless and they write crap songs.

listen to the majority of in utero...he has cheek to say that about gnr.

Cobain cracks me up. Just another on of those lost and isolated people with a total unrealistic view on the world. Usually they end up dead or in a home somewhere. Justice get's served I guess. Too bad they have to be elevated to demi-gods for a while as a result though.

Yeah, well said. I couldn't agree more. Cobain was definitely a self-righteous prick. This will probably piss off some of y'all on here, but I'll go ahead and say it. Axl is or at least WAS a major asshole. But at least he was NOT afraid to admit it (and he even joked about it recently when he had that dumbass fan kicked out of a concert during SCOM). Cobain pretended like he had his own shit together and was better than everyone else, when in fact he was a million times more screwed up in the head than any of the people he talked shit about.

EDIT: LMFAO...I just found an article from Rolling Stone for the 10th anniversary of Nevermind, and in it, they mention that GN'R is more influential on current rock bands (meaning 2001) than Nirvana because imitating Nirvana would feel like heading for a dead end. Yeah Kurt. GN'R was a band of talentless hacks. Riiiiiight.  ::)

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5934228/nirvana

Nirvana kicks ass, Guns 2....But why in the hell should Nirvana open for GNR in 1992 ? And why in the hell should they play on Axl?s 30:th year birthday ? I don?t think it was rude of Nirvana to turn Guns down, but to mock Axl at the VMA?s was a little harsch......But duff really comes out as a little gay  here..I mean he and like 10 Security guards are pushing Krist Nsovelic around..Why not beat him up himself ???

This is silly..This was silly..just like every other beefs Axl has been involved with during the years.

Musically Nirvana SUCKED!!! Kurt couldnt play his guitar for shit... ::)

kurt cobain was the first EMO!!!!!

Grunge sounds like EMO?

Fool!

it's the same attidude; I hate myself and wanna die

I guess starting a Grunge Vs Emo thread would be a bad idea then.

 : ok:fuck the kurt cobain signature fender --- I wanna see the Kurt Cobain signature Winchester  ;D

Hauhauhuahuhuhauhuhauhuahuhauhuahuha. :rofl:
Good one.

It would be a truly mind-blowing product

Former Nirvana drummer Dave Grohl talks about the Kurt Cobain vs. Axl Rose brawl in this quick Q&A with Esquire magazine.

Esquire: What's your onstage philosophy?

Dave Grohl: Imagine having a keg party and inviting eight thousand of your best friends. You have to make sure everything is right--the grill's hot, the tap is working. No foam. And as the host, you have to do shots with everyone in the room. It's your responsibility to make sure everyone goes home throwing up chicken all over their fucking bathrooms. That's basically the story of my life.

Esquire: Could you do this job sober?

Dave Grohl: You can. I do interviews sober. Everything else is better wasted.

Esquire: At last year's Esky Awards, Slash told us his most memorable awards show was the 1992 MTV Video Music Awards, when Nirvana and Guns N' Roses squared off backstage.

Dave Grohl: I remember that when Nevermind first came out, Axl Rose was a really big fan of us. Guns N' Roses was about to do this massive stadium tour with Metallica, and they wanted us to open. So Axl had been calling Kurt nonstop. One day we're walking through an airport and Kurt says, "Fuck. Axl Rose won't stop calling me." I think it represented something bigger. Nirvana didn't want to turn into Guns N' Roses. So Kurt started talking shit in interviews, and then Axl started talking back. It went back and forth like tenth-grade bullshit. Then we got to the awards and our trailers were all in the same one hundred yards. And Courtney was there, which never makes anything easier. So it didn't take much to blow up into a full-fiedged showdown. Kurt and Courtney were screaming at Axl. Axl screamed back. It was all just soap-opera bullshit. Krist, our bass player, almost got in a fistfight. I was just the drummer, so I shouted some loud, funny shit and hit the bar.

Source: http://www.gnrdaily.com/news_detail.asp?id=654

hmmm interesting; it almost makes it sound like kurt was the prick; and this coming from his own drummer.

nice to see dave didnt resort to tenth grade bullshit, I have to say, Axl seemed to be a huge nirvana fan as maybe kurt should have just kept his mouth shut : ok:

that last line really cracked me up  :hihi:

He was a prick. He had far more to him than the little boy lost shit people wanted to see, and the media wanted to show. Even courtney has said that. Axl n Kurt were more alike than they, and their fans, like(d) to admit.

"Said some funny shit n hit the bar"! Haha!

Wow, they didn't want to write good music and to be famous.  :rofl:

If Kurt hadn't blew up his brain, they wouldn't have been half as successful as they were back in the 90s.
I personally like "Bleach" and "Nevermind" (I would rate it 6,5/10), but the band really sucked as far as their behaviour in interviews and on stage was. I'm sorry but that band lead by a crack junkie did not have much future anyway.

nirvana was a cool band..but they werent this earth shattering thing like people make them out to be...if kurt never killed himself they would have been forgotten already...

I absolutely agree with this

I think NIRVANA was a very important band cause they changed the perception of music, I dont like most of their music but I think they were transgressors.. on the other hand the fact that kurt killed himself well that helped but do you remember the guy of INXS as much as kurt?

Courtney fault ! lol

Why cant both set of fans just get over what happened in 1992 ?
Kurt couldnt deal with fame at that time etc, Axl was.... well like Axl, that why it all kicked off in 1992 but both bands are great so like them both or just respect them ! Also there a interview with nirvana in 1993 or 94 where kurt seems fine with GN'R.

 :peace:

the dude from INXS died WAY after their prime....Kurt died when Nirvana was still huge...

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/11/20/nirvanas-novoselic-relives-failed-1992-vma-bass-toss/

Don't really understand why he blames Axl.

the real reason is cause he sucks ass.

sorted.

I think that if you start searching this similarites in other bands you will sooner or later find they have a lot, especially if you wanna create them like now.