Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Ok, so this is just a theory, and I'd like to discuss it with people here. As we all know, the first set of leaks happened on Feb 2006 and continued in bits and pieces for the following week after I.R.S. appeared. Over a year later, and I ask, are the band doing it themselves?

I didnt think so, despite the people who kept saying Axl had leaked the tracks since he'd been away for so long or had given them to people knowing they would be leaked.

But then, now, when the band are off the road preparing for another couple of dates to start 2007 (just like they were preparing for the 8 or so announced European shows in 2006 when the leaks happened) something starts getting out.

Is this just a marketing ploy, is it some wise insider, or is it just some trader sitting behind a computer screen trying to hinder or aid Guns N Roses?

Axl still wants to be Trent Reznor but he cant afford the usb sticks.  Haha!


But seriously I'm not sure anymore, maybe that is the plan.

it's not, read the truth about better : ok:

haha, I dont beilve that shit for one second.

My thing is, this album has been so guarded for all these years, how would shit all of a sudden now get out?

the truth about better is a sham

the leaked demo sounds nothing like the version of better used on the HD advert (i should know because i ripped the audio from it at the time)

i agree that it wasnt a finished version though

One possibility is that the album is on the way and shit starts to get out. The other is gn'r doing this themselves to either get feedback or prevent negative backlash.

The third is that a small group of hoarders, perhaps just 1 guy, is starting to let go since their shit will be useless after CD is out. I think it's this one.

Yeah but how would that get them?

I'm sure they have their ways, it's not Fort Knox afterall.

^
Its been pretty damn close and the thing is, if they can get the ones leaked, why havent they gotten all of them?

i think its mike piazza releasing the leaks (this post is for amusement only, no serious value here)

As I was saying, they may have, but choose to keep their aces as long as they can.

you believe that shit, I have got an unreleased track with Axl and Slash recorded a month ago that I will sell you...

I dont understand what they'd have to gain by holding them though......................................

I'm guessing to get more stuff if they come over it, or simply just to gloat, like the gnrsuck character.

I just find it hard to believe that someone could score Chinese Democracy but may not be able to locate Tokyo Japan 2007 and would hold a track for trade. u see what Im sayin?


If u can score CD what possibly could u not be able to get?


Unless some Engineer in the studio caught Axl slippin and quickly emailed these to himself or something.

Valid point, I really don't know. I guess a possibility is that these tracks come from one of those discs Axl has brought with him to clubs etc.

How did all the other demos get out over the years. There's a ton of Use Your Illusion stuff.

My beef with Axl is:

If he is careless enough to give out copies or careless enough to forget a copy at a club, im not gonna say he deserves to have this happen but I dont see how he can get that pissed cause quite frankly, if something gets out, thats on him for being careless.

We don't know how these leaks happened. So if I were you, I wouldn't be pointing fingers.


If people took your songs and posted them online before you had finished them, wouldn't you be upset? You'd be judged based on unfinished material.



/jarmo

yeah.. at least i would.. be upset.. but from the fans point of view, i understand that thim is impossible..
anyone getting a track from Chinese Democracy have the opportunity to leak.. just a matter of choise..

While that is an understandable concern, isn't it true that you'd be being judged by a very small group of people with no influence over either the mainstream media or the general public. And when the final versions were released, you'd be judged all over again by a much larger and more influential crowd, based on your final effort.

Most of the fans have been very happy with the leaks, most of the web-media have been horribly critical. Meanwhile, the general public have been largely oblivious to the leaks (with perhaps the exception of Better, for obvious reasons). There doesn't seem to be much overlap between what goes on among the hardcore fans/critics on the net and the record buying public in the real world. So while it's understandable that GNR would be pissed at demos being leaked, it doesn't seem like a grave concern. Of course if the final mixes leaked, that would be another story.

That isn't true. We both know that radio stations played Better and asked listeners to call in for feedback.

You can't get more mainstream than that.





/jarmo

Hence I made a point of saying that Better was the exception.

 

 Axl is smart, maybe he is purposly leaking demos just to our fans reaction? I think he is gonna blow us away when we hear C.D. hit shelfs! It just may be the greatest album ever! The demos sound great imagine what we are in store for.

When comparing the vocals of Chinese Democracy, Madagascar and There Was a Time from both the new 2007 leaks and the 2006 leaks, I actually believe his voice sounds better in TWAT and thus it brings me to the conclusion that it was these leaks that are more representative of the final product. We have NO idea what has been going on since 1997 because of serious lack of information and you have to remember that 3 producers have apparently worked on this album and in the process each has re-recorded their predecessors work

As a result, this could be the Madgascar from 2001, with Roy Thomas Baker, Bryan, Paul Huge and Buckethead....but not the 2006 version

what new leaks?

are you saying there was a 2007 leak of TWAT that i missed?

Im wondering this too....

It's Richard Fortus playin the solo, not Buckethead. Listen to the ending and compare to Inland Invasion, it's the same. Buckethead's solo (at least on the version I have) had a slightly different ending. You can also tell by the overall sound. Also, I think, like Better (which had an extended solo at Inland Invasion & HD ad, but not on leaks or European tour) it was worked on in between Euro and American tours.  The version of Madagascar at Inland Invasion, also sounded new, and I think this demo is more representative of that. Whether or not is the final version, I have no idea, but certainly hasn't been mixed or mastered.

As for his voice, remember Axl said he sang November Rain in a way so that everyone could sing it? I think he's using a similiar technique here, you can really hear the sadness in his voice, particularly in the first verse. I think it sounds great.

Lol, he's? just saying the vocals in the 2006 leak of TWAT are better than the 2007 leaks of Madagascar and Chinese Democracy.

Do you guys really think that is axl singing?

To be frank, in all the bootlegs of all the shows i have heard in the last 6 years, that is without a doubt the worst I have ever heard him sound singing madagascar. Why would he sound good on all the live shows and shit in the studio? And record and keep it?

I just think it is a cover version by somebody, or at best a cleaned up doctored live recording.

The guitar solo sound like richards 2006 version, whilst the rest of the music sounds like the older version.

John M. From GNRONTOUR used to have connections with a few of the roadies. That's how most of the early demos got out.

i think axl doesn't sound the best, but again, its just a demo, i think the music sounds good though!

In fact now I can hear Axl, he sounds like he did at that the VMA's 2002. Out of tune and out of puff.
It sounds really like he did at the vmas.

^ He's not out of tune at all. Please, don't talk about what you don't know.

No. Fortus played like Bucket's ending (which is more like the RIR3 version), he tried to emulate Bucket's sound. This recording sounds like Bucket for sure - his style, his licks.

Just because Fortus played live like this doesn't mean it's him on this recording. People keep saying its Richard like he couldn't just reproduce live what Bucket played....

I think he sounds amazing.

Classic rasp, thats for sure : ok:

I also think Robin's contributions far outweigh Buckethead's, but I realize those are fighting words.. :hihi:

perhaps someone had a mix of the music and tried then to put a live bootleg of axls vocal mix on the recording?

Bite me you tone deaf motherfucker!! :rant:

It ain't outta tune, and it's not a live track period.

Did you read this?

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=44675.0

Nice argument. ::)

^Eh, he'll have fun with his negative karma. :)

Nah man, its got Axl doing backing vocals in the outro, can't be live

^^^^

ahah! true enough i didn'gt think that one through! :hihi:

like  rolling stones' fool to cry? ::)

emotional literacy.....

anyone think the only reason we're "getting away" with talking about this here is because of the different thread title? :beer:

Not exactly, its just whenever some self-righteous bighead, belittles me with their santimonious, matter of fact put downs - well I tend to get a little uptight.

But I stand by it, I think he must be tone deaf. Whether or not he is a motherfucker, who knows, dont really care anymore.

No, more likely because the tide has gone out. Now it's safe (-ish) to pick up the driftwood and beat each other over the head with it.

anyone think it's pretty stupid to come here everyday, and when something happens we have to go to other forums..?

by the way, don't ask me I don't have any link.. someone sent the file to me because he knows the forum I read deletes interesting threads.. ?:no:

so?

can we talk about leaks or not?

who knows?

Agreed 100%. It's not the band, stop pointing fingers. I'm sorry to say, but I think things that have leaked and are leaking are simply not the finished product we'll be getting when the album is released, and I believe its release is imminent. Jarmo, what do you think about this theory? About maybe a couple horders or so just releasing they're not gonna be too cool for school for too much longer, so they'll play their cool points while they still can. They'll save the day right before it won't need saving, and that's why with the last batch of leaks and now these we got cockteased with blips and clips of this and that. To prolong that badass-wannabe little thrill.

Could be that it's the other way around. The timing suggests that someone could have wanted to capitalize on the "album handed in" rumor to make it look like the tracks they had were possibly the new mixes. It seems more likely than "Oh, I wasn't expecting such a reaction to posting the intro to the title track on my splash page!" Sadly, for him, enough people already had the same mixes to identify what he actually had.

about madagascar...

I kind of prefered the last solo from a old live version I had..

but it's still my favorite from the new sons  : ok:

Very good point.

There is no way this is the band intentionally leaking this. I would not be a good business move and kills he anticipation of album, which I imagine is the last thing Axl wants. I think if he had it his way, we would never hear any of these songs. He has been on 2 world tours in the last 5 years and still plays 90% old material b/c he won't release the record. If he is holding the record this close to him, do you really think he would let a crap demo like Madagascar leak? And remember what Dizzy's wife's comment was when the first set of leaks happened: "Axl is going to be so upset, why did you guys do this to him. He wanted to surprise the fans with the work once the album comes out, and now it's like you ruined Christmas by opening up the presents early." (I was just paraphrasing there).

I always loathed that argument. It comes from someone who's close to the band, who can (and likely has been) listening to these tracks EVERY DAY FOR THE LAST DECADE, while we've been suffering in silence. They lack the fans' perspective. And I really could care less about "spoiling the surprise". Bugger the surprise; the album will never live up to the weight of expectation placed on it in that situation, so I'd rather hear the leaks to get a realistic appraisal of the album's strengths and weaknesses.

SG

Good theories but I guess we will never know

it seems my last post was deleted, once again, and I dont understand because I didnt actually incriminate myself in that post....oh well, it appears that there are some sensitive issues alright

The best part is how "I searched and found the way she used to lure me in..." was changed to "I searched and found the way you used to lure me in..."

Rather different meaning.



 - SammyD1st

You still don't know what are you talking about, there's no way he's out of tune. I do know what I'm talking about, I'm not ignorant on music.

So, shut up, please.  And stop calling names, makes you look even more like a troll.

I would say they are from a demo disc sent to the record company in late 2006.

I have concluded that it must be GnR because we have been getting the same songs leaked in various stages of production. It got our attention a couple years back, kept us interested as the songs evolved to what we are hearing today. It's certainly no coincidence that they same songs are being played live. If they were being leaked by a third party I  believe we would have heard other songs besides the four or so we've heard for years now. After hearing the latest ?leaks? I am more convinced then ever that they are strategically released at certain intervals to keep interest level high-which seems to have worked quite well.

The demo is clearly old and it needs lot of work to be a final version, but I want to highlight just one thing from the million great things I've noticed:

The way that Axl transmits different feelings/sensations with his different voice styles is simply unbelievable.

Just listen to Axl's voice from 1:55 to 2:50. That ''double voice'' achieve a massive feeling of sadness, it's simply hair-rising, and the way his voice and the guitars fuse in some parts of the track makes me shiver.

Outstanding song, I would rate it 2nd of all the leaked tracks. The first (and undefeatable first) is still TWAT for me.

absolutely, I'm not agreeing with the leaks at all. I think it sucks that someone was able to get their hands on whatever they have their hands on.

 I'm just trying to point out that for years we never heard as much as an album title cause Axl had stuff locked down so well and now all of a sudden having a few be leaked appears to me as if Axl *who we can all agree is in charge* may be starting to let his guard down a little bit or he is being careless or has someone around him or in his? organization that shouldn't be.


There is no way Joe Schmo on the street could come across this, so in my opinion and I do stress my opinion and to steal a Pearl Jam song title, it has to be an Inside Job.

The only ways i can see this being leaked are:

1. Somebody in the studio took off with a copy and leaked it.
2. Axl or a bandmember gave somebody a copy who in turn betray their trust
3. someone at the record label leaked it
4. someone in the band's organization leaked it
5. it somehow got stolen by a? studio janitor or something but even then they would've had to have a copy lying around.



I know Axl can't watch everybody all the time but with the CD so close, I think he needs to really close ranks, put survelliance video cameras in the studio, whatever it takes.

As bad as I want this album, I do not want it to leak. It would be a tragedy for this album to get out that way. I don't mind the ones that have so much since we have already heard them live so many times.


I guess we as hardcore fans dont think about Casual fans or even Non fans hearing these though.

You still don't know what are you talking about, there's no way he's out of tune. I do know what I'm talking about, I'm not ignorant on music.


Yeah you are right, you are great, I dont know shit, you know man, you know what your talking about man, you fucking know about music maaan.
 "I'm in a fucking band maaaann, I know about music maaaaan, dont you disagree with me man, you troll with your poxy three hundred odd posts, look at all mine, I must know more than you about music maaaaan."


I'm not ignorant either, I know shite when I hear it. I heard it on that madagascar demo and I heard it when I clicked on the link for your fucking band you fucking gimp : ok:.

I always presumed the last batch of leaks were done to help promote last year's tours in the absence of any album release, now I believe the same has happened this year.

Either way, it's doing the job as threads once again start popping up all over the internet.

exactly my thoughts!  :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've heard alot of people talk about the quality of Axl's voice in this 'demo', commenting that it's not perhaps as good as in other songs.

Well in my opinion it has been deliberately left with a raw and emotive feel to it so the message of the song is not told purely by the lyrics alone.

I fucking love it   

If this was the band doing it, why would they post demos from pre-Bumble/Frank? If they wanted to get feedback they would most likely post demos before they were mixed/mastered.

And your theory would mean that darknemus (sp?) and gnrsucks would have to be in on this conspiracy theory. Not buying it.

It could be the case for the 2006 leaks, but not the recent leaks.

Whoever said these leaks are bad for business is dead wrong... they only increase "buzz" about the band. 

Reasons why leaks aren't bad for business:

1.  These leaks are NOT the final version, so it's not really taking anything away from what the album has in store. 
2.  These leaks will only be heard by the GnR hardcore, who are gonna buy the album (possibly multiple copies) anyway.

     It?s nice to have a professional between us, so tell us where does Axl is out of tune? in which part?  I?d love to hear it... actually I?d love to listen you singing... you could post us some, since you are the MAN here  :rofl: :hihi: :peace:  take it easy man, I didn?t get your post as something to consider, cause all you say that he?s out of tune,  Oh great, where? why do you get this conclusion, since you are a professional you could share your knowledge with us... but just the singer one, because as a person you suck... call out people?s name, get a life!!!

i honestly think that some one in the G'n'R camp is leaking songs to see what the internet comunity thinks of them. I was told a long time ago by a guy on Blabbermouth that said it was/is planned leak, they are doing this all on purpose. He seemed ligit but the more i think about that the more i think he's right..........

my posts kept getting deleted when i insisted it was gnr that was leaking the songs.. just because it made to much business sense for them to be an accident.. but after several PMs from various members.. i came to the conclusion.. (and this is just my opinion.. nothing is a fact.. and i have no in side info ect..)  that Merk leaked the first batch of leaks.  it was good exposure for the band.. helped create the buzz for the tour.. he would know what songs they were planning on playing live.. and he could profit from gnr's success.  that could have been one of the reasons he was fired.  i don't think GNR is responsible for the latest leaks.. but it has to be someone with ties to the gnr camp.. that stands tp profit from the bands success. 

Maybe the GN'R camp decided after Better, IRS and TWAT leaked.. that they would only play those new songs live otherwise if they played other new songs besides those already heard live and through the leaks.. there wouldn't be much left.. ?

Ok here is one thing I cannot understand. When GNR was at their absolute peak of popularity in 1991 6 months before UYI came out they played almost the entire album live to get all of the songs out there for the fans and to make sure they sounded nice and tight live. Obviously this was a different time and the band had the opportunity to sell many, many more albums then they have in the current digital marketplace. So why does all of this have to be such a big fucking secret. I am so sick of people saying they feel like christmas is early and all of that bullshit. Do you think fans felt that way in 1991 when UYI came out after hearing almost everything live in summer concerts. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it debuted at 1 and 2 respectively and sold a gazillion copies and everyone loved it. So for this record to be in the mixing stages without even a confirmed tracklist is crazy. And who cares if Madagascar got leaked. Its not finished everyone knows it. It is a fantastic song that almost all of us has heard and it is building huge buzz for the band. And if the album is almost done and going to be released soon they should start playing almost all of it live. Is it really going to ruin the greatness of this music if we hear prostitute, and sorry and If the world live? NO it will be awesome and even more so when the studio version of the entire record is relased.

Personally, i thought it sounded absolutely horrible compared to the other demos. But im not worried about it because it is just a demo