Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Well, i'm posted this in Guns N' Roses Source (gnrsource.com) also but i wanna share my theory with you too.

First of all, I'm from Argentina and my english is not very good so...sometimes I not express myself so well but I think that i'm going to be understandable

The "Axlists and Slashists" Theory and the people who put "New" before "Guns N' Roses"

Well, here in Argentina (and all Latin America) is very common make a difference between "Axlists" and "Slashists" . In all the forums, in all the worldwide net, I never read this rivalry so i wanna explain some things about this theory which, now I begin to believe, i'm made.

This Theory was born in 2003 when I said in a Forum (Gunnertemple [Spanish Section]): "I'm Axlist" and that definition (Axlist) was unexpected by the members. Four years later all the latin american gunners are using this terms

My Theory About "Axlists" and "Slashists":

Guns N' Roses' fan have two ideologies, two ways to choose: "I'm Axlist or I'm Slashist (Or Anti-New GN'R)" .

What is it about? Bassically the "Axlists" have the conviction that W. Axl Rose is Guns N' Roses independently of the rest of the band. The "Axlists" mantain the theory that AXL ROSE IS GUNS N' ROSES. Axl Rose is the soul, is the spirit of Guns N' Roses and Axl Rose, ONLY HIM and no one else, is Guns N' Roses.

The "Slashits" (or "The Anti-New GN'R") believe that Guns N' Roses are Axl Rose, Slash, Duff, Steven (or Matt) and Izzy (or Gilby) and this band (The current line-up of Guns N' Roses) is a solo project of Axl. Maintain that without the old members there's no Guns N' Roses.

This is a short version of the Theory 'cause my english is not so good and i don't know how to write some things that I have in my head but i think that is understandable, right?.


My Theory and The People Who Put "New" before "Guns N' Roses":

I think that the people who put "New" on Guns N' Roses are resentful people. People who regrets that Slash doesn't stay in the band anymore and put the "New" with the excuse: "This is a new line-up so...i put NEW Guns N' Roses and not Guns N' Roses"...here's the question: If this line-up of Guns N' Roses are NEW, why they didn't put the "New" in 1991 when Izzy Stradlin and Steven Adler left and Dizzy Reed came in on the band? The band was changed but no one said "New" and two members left and one new member came in...THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE: ALL THE PEOPLE WHO USES THE "NEW" ON GUNS N' ROSES ARE THE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVES THAT WITHOUT SLASH GUNS N' ROSES IS NOT GUNS N' ROSES.
That people doesn't use the "New" on 1991 'cause Slash was in the band but when Slash left Guns N' Roses they started to put the "New".

This is a little extract of my theory for the same reason that I gave before.

That's really makes me anger...GUNS N' ROSES IS GUNS N' ROSES AND NOT "NEW GUNS N' ROSES"...THE "NEW" IS STUPID.

I'M REALLY REALLY AXLIST AND I'M VERY DISAGREE WITH "NEW GUNS N' ROSES" THERE'S NOT "NEW"....GUNS N' ROSES IS GUNS N' ROSES!!!.

Sorry for my english...I hope you understand what I'm tryin' to say.

or they just put new in the front because its an entirely new band except for axl/dizzy(altho he came in the illusions era)

That's the problem...I'm "Axlist" and i think that Axl is Guns N' Roses so...if Axl Rose is in the band...there no need to put the "New". Why put "New"? and why didn't put new in 1991 when Izzy Stradlin and Steven Adler left the band? Is simple: The "New" is from Slash's people.



NEW Guns N' Roses doesn't exist...there are only GUNS N' ROSES. No discussion.


That's the way I see the situation.

Cool, I'm glad we have another of these threads. There just aren't enough of them.

i call them new guns n roses, because thats what they are, new decade, new century, new image, new people, new style of music, new attitudes.

Totally different from the old rock n roll leathers and cigarettes and some blues line up.

Now its, casual or strange image with new style with keyboards and industrial type guitars etc.

I like new gnr, ive seen them myself, but i reffer to them as new, because they are new.

Is very weird to see that this theory was created in Argentina and not in another country.

Here in Latin America, the matter of "Axlists" and "Slashists" is a endlees fight


Please let me analyze what you wrote.

You call them "New" Guns N' Roses because of:

New decade: Sorry but...Guns N' Roses was on the 80s and the 90s...that are differents decades
New image: "Old" Guns N' Roses have changed of image. Example: Look Axl on Ritz '88 and Axl on Tokyo '92...you know what i mean? Letter, a lot of letter and, in the other hand, t-shirts and tight short pants...
New people: Matt Sorum. Gilby Clarke and Dizzy Reed aren't new people who joined the band in the early 90's ? ?
New Sytle of music: Appetite For Destruction is very very different, musically speaking, than Use Your Illusion
New attitudes: In the 80s, Axl Rose was the most dangerous frontman of the world and in the 90s shooted "November Rain"...know what I mean?

That's it...that the point...in the transition "80s to 90s" Guns N' Roses has changed but no one put "New"

"new guns n roses" after so much years... it's like "i have a new best friend for 12 years"  :confused: 

how long before this thread get moved to dead horse. 2 minutes  :hihi:


/a band with only one original member should get a new name  :peace:

Maybe they should have version numbers  :hihi:

Is not a "One ordinary original member", is Axl Rose...is the Spirit...the Life...and the Soul of Guns N' Roses

Gn'R v1.0 - Original line up
Gn'R v1.1 - Adler is fired and Sorum replaces him
Gn'R v1.2 - Izzy leaves and Gilby Clarke replaces him
Gn'R v1.3 - Dizzy Reed joins the band
Gn'R v1.4 - Duff and Matt leave the band
Gn'R v1.5 - Slash leaves the Band
Gn'R v1.6 - Axl is the only memeber and looks for new memebers
Gn'R v1.7 - I'll leave you to fill the rest in...

I use 'new' because when I talk to people about GN'R they assume I'm talking about the AFD and Illusions band. When I say 'new', they get that I'm talking about the album-less versions.

By the way, in the thread title you spelled Slash wrong. : ok:

Slash left like a year before Duff did.

not that that matters much :hihi:

My mistake. Unforgivable mistake ?;D .

we're in Dead Horse now  :peace:

This is bollocks! I don't come under either of these, I love both Axl and Slash like a bisexual loves men and women, maybe i'm not Axlist or Slashit, i'm bi-ist. Nah really I'm just good music-ist, regardless who is in the band. I certainly don't believe that Axl is Guns N' Roses independantly of the rest of the band or ever was (coz then, by definition, its not a band! - duh, use your brain, man) or that he is the soul and spirit of Guns N' Roses, and Axl himself would be the first to admit this. They're are a handful of old GnR songs from Illusions and Spaghetti where he barely features - still great songs. I'm not a Slashist either coz, quite clearly there is still a Guns N' Roses, and some of the old members, especially Izzy fully accept this too.

Therefore your theory is a load of rubbish and neither applies to me in any way. And by the way, leave theory to Mathematicians - this is Rock N' Roll for fuck's sake, not Science.





I think that the people who put "New" on Guns N' Roses are resentful people. People who regrets that Slash doesn't stay in the band anymore and put the "New" with the excuse: "This is a new line-up so...i put NEW Guns N' Roses and not Guns N' Roses"...here's the question: If this line-up of Guns N' Roses are NEW, why they didn't put the "New" in 1991 when Izzy Stradlin and Steven Adler left and Dizzy Reed came in on the band? The band was changed but no one said "New" and two members left and one new member came in...THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE: ALL THE PEOPLE WHO USES THE "NEW" ON GUNS N' ROSES ARE THE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVES THAT WITHOUT SLASH GUNS N' ROSES IS NOT GUNS N' ROSES.
That people doesn't use the "New" on 1991 'cause Slash was in the band but when Slash left Guns N' Roses they started to put the "New".

This is a little extract of my theory for the same reason that I gave before.

That's really makes me anger...GUNS N' ROSES IS GUNS N' ROSES AND NOT "NEW GUNS N' ROSES"...THE "NEW" IS STUPID.

I'M REALLY REALLY AXLIST AND I'M VERY DISAGREE WITH "NEW GUNS N' ROSES" THERE'S NOT "NEW"....GUNS N' ROSES IS GUNS N' ROSES!!!.

Sorry for my english...I hope you understand what I'm tryin' to say.

It's just words man, why you get so worked up? It's just to differentiate the era 87-93 from the current era. And maybe people did put "new" in 1991, but no internet so we don't know. Now they're known as the UYI-era band. So there's the AFD era, the UYI era, and the new band, who have no album officially released so we can't call them anything else. It's just to differentiate the different periods. AFD and UYI are often summarised as the old band, because, well they're both old :hihi:. Even Axl himself in the Trunk interview called them "The old band!" It's just to differentiate, its not meant as offensive!

Worst thread ever!

"Worst"? Mmmmm...I don't think so. I think that is "different", "interesting".

Besides, there are 706495 topics that you can visit. No one force you to enter here.

I accept your critic but...when is not constructive, doesn't like me.

So...Fuck You  :)

If this topic was different it wouldn't be in Dead Horse. :hihi:

You mixed up 1.2 and 1.3, you monster.

Does anybody call the Rolling Stones The New Rolling Stones?

How about KISS? Pink Floyd? AC/DC?




/jarmo

well for a dude that claims not to know much english nice job : ok:

secondly i'd say i'm kinda both, to me G'n'R is who ever is in the band at that point and time, but i think we can all agree that Slash is one of the main resons we have a G'n'R today.

btw gunnertemple is back online man

and Jarmo you make a good point with KISS when Ace and Peter left there where about 4 or 5 dudes that came in and out, Vinnie Vinecent was in and out within a year so was Mark St. john and some people said that they weren't KISS. Now Eric singer and Tommy Thayer are in KISS as well as Tommy stinson, Robin finck, BBF, Richard Fortus, Bryan Mantia/ Frank Ferrer :-\, Chris Pitman, and Dizzy Reed are in Guns N' Roses. And those people there are what make up each band.

btw wasn't AC/DC supost to tour ireland this year ??? and Roger Waters is touring now doing Pink Floyd :D

:peace:

ask robert smith if his fans call the band "the new cure".

those people you refer to as "slashists".. i don't like them at all.

those people you refer to as "axlists", are the worst kind imaginable...

Well in fairness they are not exactly new anymore - Brian Johnson has been in AC/DC for 27 years! So its usually the Bon Scott era AC/DC or Brian Johnson AC/DC, or look at Deep Purple - MKI, MKII, etc. You can't do that with GnR coz we've all lost count of the amount of lineups and plus, there is no one instantly recognisable new member like Brian Johnson, for example. Well I think when Buckethead around there was, so some people called it the Buchethead era.

You could argue the new GnR have been around for a while too and thus aren't "new", but as they've been inactive in the public domain for most of that time, I think its ok to call them new. Whatever, it isn't meant to offend, and besides people usually only use "new" when trying to differentiate. So for example, you would say GnR haven't released an album in 13 years, or GnR toured last year, but you would also say "I really like the new GnR" band so people know you're not talking about the older version of the band. Alternatively some people might say I like the old GnR but not the new GnR. Not me, but you can see why it would be important to differentiate. Alternatively you could call 'em the current GnR but who cares.

A good number of people are both Axlists and Slashists. It is not either /or. One can do both, the Kreme included. So I do not see  it  as a zero sum game at  all. Thus, I beg to differ with the premise  of this thread.

Slash quit Guns N' Roses...  Axl did not.  That alone right there is enough for me to support Axl.

The names and "sides" are bogus.  Guns N' Roses is a band... if you don't like what it is, then you're not a fan of the band and should have other websites or things you should be doing with your time.

too true.   As much as these "slashists" aka haters want to claim its something else, they are wrong.  They are pests.

I have only one thing to say: W. AXL ROSE IS GUNS N' ROSES. HIM AND ONLY HIM.

So who are all the guys in his band then?

you need to be very inmature to add a ''new'' to a band name just because your idol is no longer there.

That is typical of some blind Slash fans. They consider a true Guns N' Roses all the lineups where Slash is included. They do not consider Guns N' Roses to this:

(http://www.gnrontour.com/sets1985/19850326flyer.jpg)

and this:

(http://www.rancor.com.ar/cpg1410/albums/userpics/10001/normal_pepsitg2.png)

Why? Just because they cant accept that Guns N' Roses doesn't depends on Slash (never did) and doesnt needs Slash (the current lineup sounds better than ever without Slash)

Keep this SAME lineup, but just add Slash to the lineup, and the haters will start to call Guns N' Roses by its name again.

Anyway, who cares about what a bunch of resentful haters say? They're just a minory...

Ladies and Gentlemen, Estebanf...the guy who is an freakin' Axlist like a lot of people here.

Dont worry, we had noticed. Its hard not to when every other post is the same.

uhh, Its a NEW gnr and shall always be. Axl is not god and the Best GNR line up is behind us now. im not saying i hate the new GNR im just saying its not the True GNR

and who the fuck are you to say what the True GNR lineup is?

YOU ARE NOBODY

and who are you? a priest in the church of axlology?

True??? True??? You know what true Guns N' Roses is? Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Tracii Guns, Rob Gardener, and Ole Beich.
 
So...i think that your "true" is a "New '86 Guns N' Roses" and not "True"

Axl is that you? Where's the album, dammit?  >:(

Once there was this rock n' roll band rolling on the streets
Time went by and it became a joke.

Guns n' Roses was Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven. They wrote the songs, performed them and conquered the world.

When Steven left, the band lost its groove, but all the songwriters (core members) were still there.

When Izzy left, GNR was over, because it lost its magic (and a core member/main songwriter), but you still could call it GNR because it had 3 of 5 GNR guys.

Now?

Now we have Axl's band playing GNR songs and that is all there is to it. Axl bought the name or whatever, he has the nerve (and legal rights) to call his band Guns n' Roses, but everybody knows it is not.

Once there was this rock n' roll band rolling on the streets
Time went by and it became a joke.

Can you be neither?

And just accept the reality of the world, instead of bitching about things like this for years and years and even more years?

All the so called "Axl-lists" rag on the "Slash-ists", and all the so called "Slash-ists" rag on the "Axl-lists".

That's how it is, and that's how it's always going to be, because people are ignorant and don't want to see the real world in front of their eyes.

The real world is that Axl Rose is Guns N' Roses.

Axl don't need anything of the old members...Axl Rose can do everything alone 'cause he was ALWAYS the force of Guns N' Roses, the sense of Guns N' Roses, the main songwriter of Guns N' Roses, the man who cares about the fans cause he is the only way to listen Guns N' Roses again...and he's doing all the possible to keep us happy and satisfied.

Axl is GOD...don't forget that.
Axl is Guns N' Roses, don' forget that either...

Axl Rose loves Guns N' Roses...he makes day by day a huge effort to keep alive Guns N' Roses...other members don't give a fuck and quit.

This is by far the funniest and most pathetic post I've seen in a long time? :hihi:

Funny how you don't find "Slashists" making such posts...

"Slash is GOD!!!" or
"Slash, HIM and ONLY HIM, AH! AH!"  :hihi:

Why do "Axlists" constantly need to prove it to themselves?

Couldn't agree more, that's exactly why I truly despise these axlists

That's your opinion, just one opinion and nothing more.

The facts are that Guns N' Roses has sold out 28 shows since 2001, that means 28 shows without Slash/Duff, and the enormous majority of the GNR fans are more excited than ever with this current lineup.

Guns N' Roses is still a massive band, and the whole world knows Slash/Duff are no longer in the band. The band headlined all the biggest Europe festivals without Slash/Duff, without an album and with a complete new lineup. How the band achieve that? ROCKING. Sounding better than before.

And it HAS sense, because people realised that the mind of the band is still there, and now with a group of extremely talented musicians that are able to follow Axl the way he wants. When you hear Bumblefoot playing Nightrain, you can think lots of things, but if there is one thing you dont think is ''Where is Slash''.

Guns N' Roses is planning to build a strong future. Fans can perceive that. Guns N' Roses is sounding better than ever. Fans can perceive that. Why would anyone think about Slash or any of the former members when they're currently doing exactly the opposite? VR sounds worse than this current GNR and worse than any of the GNR lineups. What makes me laugh is the fact that Slash/Scott made a band that sounds worse than their previous bands!!! And VR tries to build his present with the memories of what they used to be. VR is nothing more than a cheap journey to the past.

Guns N' Roses needed to get rid of Slash/Duff/Matt to GROW, to evolve. Look at ''Contraband'', and then look at the four shitty 128 kbps leaked demos. Compare TWAT as a whole concept with ''Illegal i Song'' as a... uhmm.

To be honest, I am very very happy to know that the backpack of the past is no more related to GNR. I feel this since the first time I've heard ''Contraband'' completly, and now I strenghten this feeling seeing GNR live and hearing the new stuff. I am also very happy and I feel very proud as a GNR fan that Slash/Duff/Matt have zero chances of returning to the band.

Anyway, once the damn album is released, there will be no more threads like this. The day we see ''Chinese Democracy'' listed after ''The Spaghetti Incident'' in a GNR discography, all haters/resentful arguments will be over. Luckily.

One more thing: I am not an ''Axlite''. I am a Guns N' Roses fan. That means Axl/Robin/Ron/Richard/Tommy/Dizzy/Chris/Frank. Nothing more, nothing else.

And that's exactly what your post is too...

As I said before:

The facts are that Guns N' Roses has sold out 28 shows since 2001, that means 28 shows without Slash/Duff, and the enormous majority of the GNR fans are more excited than ever with this current lineup.

Guns N' Roses is still a massive band, and the whole world knows Slash/Duff are no longer in the band. The band headlined all the biggest Europe festivals without Slash/Duff, without an album and with a complete new lineup. How the band achieve that? ROCKING. Sounding better than before.

That's not an opinion smart kid, those are facts.

of course they are the facts, the name on all the ticket stubs from the shows I went to said Guns N' Roses.  Not New GNR or even lamer NuGNR.   

of course you will never convince a Slashist.  They live in denial and live in the past and in their own little world.

Me a kid? woohoo always wanted to be a kid again? :beer:..... ^^ as i said before that is an opinion not fact although you would like it to be....

estebanf, I respect your opinion, but I see things in a different way. Below I answered your comments and tried to show you how I see things.

I see it like this: Axl's band sold out 28 shows calling itself Guns n' Roses and playing Guns n' Roses songs but Axl's band is not Guns n' Roses because it does not have original members and core songwriters Izzy Stradlin, Slash, Duff Mckagan and Steven Adler.

That is not true. The enormous majority of the GNR fans love GNR for what GNR did (Appetite, Lies, UIYs even Spaghetti) and they are SICK of waiting for the new Axl's record. This time Axl took (or "is taking") to make this record is a total joke. And he knows it.

Sure Axl band is a massive band, and how important is that? It is not about how big you are and how many records or tickets you sell, is it? Isn't it about the music you do and how great it is?

That is not entirely true. Not everybody follows the band just like we do.

That is a fact. I just don't understand why you mention Slash/Duff on this argument and why you don't mention Izzy and Steven.

That is your opinion. I see this way: How the band achieve that? Playing tunes written by Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven in the 80s and early 90s. Sounding like the best cover band ever.

I wouldn't dare to read people's minds. And Axl surely is not the mind of the band. Like many people have said here on this board before, he is not a "Prince type of guy" that writes all the songs and them calls musicians to play them. Axl is the best singer ever and a great lirycist and songwriter (November Rain, Estranged), but Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven wrote the absolute majority of the music in Guns n' Roses, specially on Appetite. So what you have is five guys, a band, that wrote amazing music as a band and this band no longer exists.

That is your opinion.

See? You are saying it yourself. If the musicians "are able to follow Axl the way he wants", then this is Axl's band.

Yeah, I really don't think "Where is Slash?" I think something like "God I miss Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven!". I think something like "Ok Axl, you got yourself the best cover band ever, now would you please call Izzy and Slash and Duff so you can make great music again? Please???"

I don't care about "planning to build a strong future" I care about good music and Axl band is not giving me that. The only great thing about Axl's band is... Axl!

I wouldn't dare to read people's minds.

That is your opinion. Not mine, for sure.

Again: I wouldn't dare to read people's minds.

I think about Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven because they are great and I wish they could make music again with Axl because that would be magic. That's why I think about them!

Your opinion. I don't like VR a lot, I think Scott was good on STP but so far has been very bad on VR, but I don't agree with your opinion. Axl's band is worse than VR for me.

Your opinion again. This time I agree with you. But look at Axl. His band also sounds way worse than his previous bands (Guns n' Roses and Hollywood Rose), doesn't it?

Your opinion.

Your opinion. When I look at Contraband, I think: "Wow, what a waste. This album has great instrumentals but Scott ruined them with the lamest vocals ever". When I look at Axl's demos, I think: "Ok Axl, is that all you can do without Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven?" I also think: "This TWAT song is so lame. IRS is lame too. Better rocks, yeah, but it is not half as good as anything you did with GNR!"

Good for you. But have you ever heard this old saying "never say never"?

I wouldn't dare to tell how the future is going to be.

I wouldn't dare to tell how the future is going to be. It is not about hate or resentment. It is about to create magic again. Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven can do that. They are the magicians. They did the magic. I hope they can do it again someday.

don't even bother with him esteban.  he's not worth the energy, he's just a disgruntled hater who won't accept the facts.  : ok:

When it's all said and done, Richard, Finck and Ron will always be playing riffs written by Slash and Duff, wherever they go.

I call it new GN'R from the same reason Axl did, to separate it from GN'R. When I say "GN'R" people think about the classic line-up(s) when "new GN'R" people think about the new line-up(s) :]

to me axl is nothing but a big LETDOWN, its been 13 years and all we've gottten is like 4 new songs (or something) and i band playing songs that the TRUE gnr wrote. im not a slashist or an axlist im a velvet revolverist. Slash, Duff, Matt, Dave and Scott are a much better band than axl and his crew.

http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com

Go to Velvet Revolver's Section then...

And Velvet revolverist people are Slashist people  ;)

I dont really get where your going with this

I don't going anywhere. Is just a thing that I see in Guns N' Roses fans.