Here Today... Gone To Hell!

.

Dear GnR,

Welcome to the 21st century.

Hugs,
The 21st century.

Oh. That makes perfect sense.?

Now I understand why the Harley ad was pulled.? Because they'd accidentally built their experimental ad campaign around an unfinished demo.?

interesting.

kinda pointless, but interesting.

These are the kinds of updates that I like to see. ? If there was even a consideration of using Better, I wonder why they even had an unapproved version.

Whats up with that picture of Dizzy?

Two updates in 2 days, very cool.

Why, whatever do you mean HellHole???    ???    ;D

i would hardly consider this an update. more of a "clarification"

It does seem a bit lame.  How about some real info?  And why the hell would Harley-Davidson have access to an unfinished demo??

at least we are getting updates 

its good to clarify some of the rumors we create

ya, i geuss we should be thankful for that much.  :beer:

Seriously 2 updates on the big site-  Could this be the beginning of what they call promotion?

Oh.
Ok. Cool.




now what?

haha.... and it just so happend that all of the songs that "leaked"  a month before the last tour were played live at almost all of the shows.. except for twat.. the only song that i believe wasn't intentionaly leaked was catcher in the rye..   i find it hard to believe that axl would build his set list around what just happend to leak on the internet..

Oh, surely you can do better than that...? :hihi:

Well I think they could have found a better one of him to put it nicely.

he probably figures: "hey, they have all heard it, might as well play it live i geuss"

they got tapes flying aroud of demos. they don't release anything. at all.

and they are frustrated? if you don't want something on the internet, release it before giving copies!

jesus!

they didn't learn from all the other leaks?? ?:confused:

I understand where you're coming from. ?I have my own doubts too. ?But, IF, it was unintentional it is quite possible that Axl would catch wind that there was a buzz about the new songs. ?Therefore, he'd have quite the reason to play those new songs live.

"upate", "clarification", whatever.  its communication from GNR to the fans on the official site.   :smoking:

Well im glad they have the full picture too...what a...erm...relief!

Anyway, as it said on the hd site that the ad had better on it, which it did, implies to me that it wasnt much of a mistake on their part. but otherwise it sounds plausible-ish. still believe the leaks of last year were deliberate tho, on balance.

Well I think the tapes have to go through a lot of peoples hands at various stages of production so, leaks are a difficult thing to avoid.

I'm happy that we got some coomunication about it. It's nice to know what's going on : ok:

that's why you have to relase things instead of waiting years and years and years...

I guess you guy sould have put out a single of it out a year ago. I don't understand why this is taking as long as it has. You guys find the time to go on tours and and this shit. BUT CAN'T put this album out? or at the very most a SINGLE? Now your going back on tour soon. Are you going to be touring on anything this time around? Are you going to give us any news on the album/single/or video before you go back on tour for a year or more? Guys its time. Eveyone is waiting. Waiting for many many years now.

I can't feel sorry for ya. This is what happens when you starve your fans for some period of time.

i'm confused if they were just building there campaign around an "unfinished" demo then why did G'n'R management go along with it?
???
and why hasn't it been released as a single yet i thought mixing and mastering were done?

wait thats probably a dumb question ?:-\

yea, and they didn't need a vlog!  :o

exactly!

*sigh*
but here we are.

But hey, i feel we gotta be close now.
We're getting frequent news updates and things are looking good if you ask me

Sigh.  Why does everything about this band have to be so confusing?

agreed totally :smoking: the fans want it the public wants it every body wants it so release it Asap :rant:

these songs are too good to not be out on a CD they are to good to go to waste :no:

This is getting kind of weird.....    :nervous:          :confused:

there mixing the album right now.

apparently.

maybe del was right. maybe the "ball is starting to roll" :beer:

Hey, who is Doug Miller?
Anyone know? Doesn't ring a bell with me...

thats what makes this whole thing so fun and exciting to be a gnr fan if you ask me ?:smoking:

Wow, this is surprising. ::)
We get updates and communication from the band, and some people are still not happy.

why can't they just admit that the three leaks we got before the tour were intentional.. because they were no where close to releasing an album or single before the tour was over.. so they leaked a few songs so people would know them before they were played live..

i've been saying that for the last two years i dont wanna say i'm loosing hope but c'mon

can't wait to see what he's going to say when the whole album will leak before the release or maybe before any release date !!

 :rofl:

I think it's a bit confusing that someone that works for GNR would let an unfinished, unapproved demo to go to HD for a commercial and not think at some point that it could get out.

Well...I'm happy. ?Like..."ha ha" happy. ?This is probably the funniest update so far.

Cool to see we get another article from gnr.com  : ok:

Nice to have clarification as well.

The best part about this update???

That god awful mix of Better, was nothing more than expermental... Thank god!!

They really should hire an established marketing firm to try and do "spin" for them if that is what Dizzy was trying to do. While I love that there was actually communication from a band member to fans, the story needs to be at least somewhat believable.

THere is absolutely no way on God's green earth that a billion dollar corporation was building an ad campaign around an unauthorized demo of an unreleased song that they would have had no access to. No chance, the legal liability they would expose themselves to would be tremendous.

They need to start having professionals do this stuff, because there had to be a "better" excuse they could have come up with than this.

I am starting to thing that they were looking for feed back on them. WELL there great!! can we have the album now??? before i hear it all!!!

It is kind of, uh-erm, funny......            isn't it, Danny boy???                          :rofl:

nothing is confusing here. They updated their website saying that the demo we're hearnig isn't the finished version and that the leak wasn't intentional. Nothing confusing.  : ok:

uneducated and untaught through posts like this is what cause rumors and crap in the first place.

now that is true!

i thought he was a producer ?:-\ right?



you dont think that that will discourage Axl from releasing it do you?



i'm happy that we're getting news on this but unhappy that nothink has happened if you know where i'm coming from

Before they go out to hire a PR firm I think they should try to hire someone that knows how to operate a label-maker.

GN'R should've KNOWN BETTER before they released this.  I like reading up to date happenings within the camp, but we all figured it was un-finished.  I guess they want the general public to know this ISN'T their best, obviously.  I say if they have something better then RELEASE IT!

i wonder why they waited so long to release a statement like this ?

euh no not at all...

c'mon... axl doesn't care about me! you think he cares about you?

it's gonna leak... all albums leak! this is 2007...

this article has to be somewhat of a lie then doesn't it?


I don't buy it, what were they doing with this 'unapproved demo' if GNR gave them the track?

hell we all ready knew that ::)


what he said ::)


thats a good point i never thought of that.

Well if they actually would release the album... then people wouldn't have to leak demos and they wouldn't be played on the radio. ?This is a direct result of the time it has taken, and I don't feel sorry for the GNR camp at all. ?It should be a sign(an obvious sign) ?that people are sick of waiting. ?HURRY UP GNR!!!!.......please

im sorry but i gotta figure tha they are doin these so called updates just to create the illusion of transparency, just to keep us happy in case it all goes tits up again. If we dont get THE announcement by the start of the tour, or a single date at least, i think the chances of seein it before mid summer are slim-none.

This is the kind of shit that will cause Axl to go back into reclusive seclusionism.    :rant:



That's not too fucking good either.            :rant:

when i get round to it tommorrow ill compare the version on the ad to the latest leak, coz as it happens i dont think theyre the same. i think the one on the ad was cleaner still than the latest leak.

Axl: "Okay guys, lets give these people updates so they think that something will happen"

The Band: "Good idea Axl, almost...too good"

These two last updates were really wierd... I would like to know who decides what to post and what not in that site...

he must care what we think cause he hasn't released the damn album because he was afraid that it would be shit. I dont mean to sound fruity but Axl is a sensetive dude and if he thinks that something is wrong or could be better he'll redo the whole song. The man is a perfectionist thats just the way he is. I thought it might discourage him because with all the down loading motha fuckas out there (my self included(but i after i download i buy the actual album)) that he might think whats the point of an official release? Well of course i think he needs to release it asap because if he doesn't the age of those songs will show and people might not care as much.

but to me and the rest of this board i think we can all agree that CHINESE DEMOCRACY can and will be the biggest and most anticipated album of the century maybe of all time and will go strait to the top :beer:

 :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: no really, very amusing! i think it makes sense tho i really do. its just playin for time.

Me two man.    :rant:


I'm really beginning to believe that somebody in the GNR camp has been smoking two much crack cocaine.    :rant:

i would see something like that:

The band: jesus we look like fools we sould say something!

axl: whatever. who cares about our shitty website

the band: can i say something?

axl: i don't care.

I used to work in the market research field. ?Here is a theory:


Step 1) Intentionally leak a demo of the first single

Step 2) Let demo play on various radio stations for a set period of time.

Step 3) Gauge reactions to demo from radio listeners, media outlets (RS), and fan forums.

Step 4) Send out letters to stations after set time period demanding song be removed from playlist.

Step 5) Concoct story about a broken label maker and send band member out to give credability to story.

Just a theory, guys. ?Not one I even necassarily aggree with. ?JUST a theory.

"Guns N' Roses 101"  :rofl:

And on a side note...just a tip for the band:  you guys should'nt buy your label-makers from the same office supply store that I bought my fax machine.


 :hihi:

you know that Adler has been out of the band for a while now right?

:rofl: i'm sorry i couldn't resist :peace:

but seriously the man needs help i'm worried about him ?:nervous:

it's much much much simpler....

step 1: create music
step2: ???
step 3: make profit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underpants_Gnomes#The_gnomes

 :rofl:

Not a bad theory. ?I had some personal experience with a label maker in fourth grade. ?They can be tricky.

Something like this just might work Danny!!!   :yes:     : ok:


Oh, wait a minute, something like this did actually work.      :rant:

BAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA



You win.

Im not to worried about the situation with "Better" ?:smoking:

Theres no real point on dwelling on it.

this is starting to sound like CIA or FBI type of shit :confused: conspiracy theory ya know one of those secrets at Area 51 :-X ............i've said to much.
;)

LOOOOOOOOOOL  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I love your ''step 2'' in your theory

UYI 1 & 2 were a under taking to make From 89- 9/17/91. 30+ songs and afew egos. So what is going on here?

Better is the comparative form of the adjective good.

Better may also refer to:

* "to better" as a verb means that someone or something has undergone betterment
*  better, an alternate spelling of bettor, is someone who gambles
* "Better" (Brooke Fraser song), a single by Brooke Fraser from her 2004 album What To Do With Daylight
* "Better", a song by The Screaming Jets from their 1991 album All For One
* "Better", a song by Guns N' Roses on their forthcoming Chinese Democracy album
* "Better", a song by Helmet from their 1992 album Meantime
* "Better", a song by Erasure, the b-side of their 2000 single Freedom
* "Better", a song by Hoobastank from their 2001 album Hoobastank

:lmao: smart ass of the month right there :rofl:

i haven't seem that episode for ever :peace: South Park :peace:

too true. but im a hypocrite so here goes - i thought fuck it ill do the comparison right here right now, dynamic man of action that i am. and i can exclusively reveal that the results are inconclusive. but i rekon there are guitar parts o the hd ad that i, at least, cannot hear on the recent leak.

Do you guys really think GNR would throw HD under the bus like this... If its false, i'm sure Harley would reply... But I dont see anybody being that stupid to lie about how a song was obtained...
Its crazy yes... But a lie, i hope not!

The point is that this is FUCKING HILARIOUS! ?


I would like to submit the following phrases into the GNR lexicon:

-Unfinished, unapproved demo

&

-mislabeled

I want to hear the 2 versions Mr. dynamic man of action!!!    :yes:    : ok: 

I have to admit i was pretty proud of myself! ;)

you all HAVE to see that episode!

well you probably have the leak, so to compare it you just have to go to youtube and enter a phrase like guns n roses black sheep, hd black sheep, somethin like that. i just used the phrase black sheep. found it on the 2nd page.

who cares ?

it still proves nothing

When Jarmo puts this story on the main page of this site, I wonder how he'll do it.  Will he just put it under the headline THE TRUTH ABOUT BETTER or will he say something like "Dizzy's theory about THE TRUTH ABOUT BETTER".


We'll see I guess.

I cant wait until jarmo starts to respond to some of these posts in this thread  :hihi:

its always entertaining to see what jarmo has to say.

well, that statement was nothing but bullshit lies.

The version played on the HD add IS NOT ?the same version as the newest leak.

well it may prove if they are lying about it being the same version or not?
i dunno ???


edit. well newgnr figures it not the same..............

You know what, though? ?I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt here. ?I'm curious to see what he has to say too and I'm not going to judge his reaction untill we see what he actually has to say. ?I hope he doesn't just tow the company line, but we'll see.

Oh yeah???   :o    ???

I wonder if he will???   :headscratch:

Why are you guys trying to start shit? This is a very simple update, just confirming that the official release is not out there yet. There's no need to try and start one of these back and forth battles. It's not a huge update, but it clears something up for people who were being confused by the radio DJ's. Chose to believe it or not, but not everything Guns N' Roses tells you is lies. I don't know why some people perceive it that way.

Oh yeah???    :o    ???


How do we know that???     ???    :nervous:    :confused:

im not trying to start shit. i was being serious in my post about jarmo.

I believe this story is just added publicity to GnR' and CD, and that's the way GnR' want it.

If Axl was really concerned about the recent leak, he would have put out the final version. This is almost teasing to the media.

I was being serious about Jarmo, too.


As far as everything the band tells us is a lie...no, I don't think that at all. ?But come on, man. ?This one is pretty out-there.

It is kind of, uhm - erhm, funny isn't it Danny???  :headscratch:

Very nice to have an update from the band. However, I'm puzzled by this:


The page on the Harley-Davidson website clearly said that the video posted was for the "new song from the upcoming album Chinese Democracy, BETTER."

If it was just a mistake, why did they have a separate page for the Paradise City video?

A person uploading that to the official Harley website would have noticed Better wasn't Paradise City, too.

I'm not saying Dizzy is lying, but I don't think he understands how long the ad was on Harley's website or that it was separate from the Paradise ad.

If it was a mistake on Harley's behalf, and they did indeed just mislabel the video that was posted online, why was a separate page put online for Better and why did the Meta tags on the website page advertise it as an ad featuring the new song if they thought they were uploading Paradise City?

I think everyone needs to chill out.


Why does everything the gnr camp does have to have some conspirac theory to it ?

Wow, so that version we have/had was a Demo? AND IT FUCKING SOUNDED AWSOME

like clear, and no distortion etc,,

wow gnr, if you have a better one then that, I will shit my pants in the opera house in sydney.

I can't wait to see this thread when I get up tommorrow morning.  This was a fun, unexpected suprise.


Goodnight all.

night Danny  :peace:

i'm gonna follow

night ya'll :wave:

After reading this.. Am I the only one who thinks Dizzy meant the latest leak is what was mislabled, and not the Harely Commerical??

I really dont see him saying the commerical was done on accident...

Thats how it read to me too.

Ok great.. So i'm not crazy  :hihi:

Thankz Friends, amazing News, 2 updates.

(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1944/dizzyreednewsqv0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

HBK *

Or maybe we are both crazy! : ok:

It did NOT say that on Harley's website....it said....."Come back soon to watch Black Sheep with "Better" the new Guns N' Roses song from the  forthcoming album Chinese Democracy"

Hey works for me ?:rofl:

But seriously... I'm reading it like:

A demo was sent to Harley, so they could see an example of the new song... A prototype commerical got used, but GNR wasnt ready... Then later down the line the whole song GNR sent out, got leaked, because it was marked as the PC/Better promo package...

I'm going to say it...'Dizzy Lied.' Its amazing that the leaks just so happen to be the same songs that were played during the most recent shows minus 'CITR'. That is not a coincedent. Axl also pretended to be bothered about us DL the songs. But what he was really doing was advertizing to the majority in the audience that the songs he was playing were available online. The song on the Harley adds was a pretty good demo if not the most completed sounding demo if we were able to hear the whole song.

Alright Dizzy to the RESCUE! MYSTERY SOLVED!!!!

Hahaaa what a bunch of horseshit. At this point, I would actually prefer the GNR camp just shut the fuck up. Either tell us the thing we want to know or shut the fuck up. I find this update insulting. I would like to know if anyone here was losing sleep about the Better leak and its origins? But yay, mystery solved.

Thank you Dick Dizzy Tracy.

Dizzy's comments are basically the same stuff I heard a few days ago (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=44064.0).




Now, is it possible that the Harley Davidson company was given a demo version so they could put music to their ad until they had a finished version?

But then, they put the ad with the unfinished music on their site, before they were supposed to.

The final version of the ad with the final version of Better was supposed to premiere when the single was released. But since the single wasn't released, the ad didn't happen.


Is it possible?

Has any of you evidence that this scenario couldn't happen?



I guess saying GN'R are liars is more fun for some of you. It's funny how some of you are spending time complaining about how there's no updates and when there's one, it's labeled as lies.....




/jarmo

I'm not dissing or anything, but IMO, the "na na na" part of the demo and the H-D version are different. The last one doesn't have the same backing vocals...

Maybe Dizzy thought it came from this, but he's mistaken.. Or maybe they sent more than one mix version of the song to the H-D crew... I dunno.

Jarmo, Im as much of a gnr fan as anyone else on these boards but what I dont get is , You always say, " your not happy when you dont get updates, and when you do, you complain etc"

Well, for starters, We arent happy because for one, why wouldn't they just send ceased and deceased letters to the radio stations /djs, and not do an update on the website , when no one really cares about a song that we all knew wasn't the final version to begin with (aka bumblefoot interview). We aren't? complaining about the update, we are compalining that the update is about pointless crap, when we rather wait 1 month for an actuall PIECE OF DECENT NEWS, then some news about a leak, that wasnt ment to happen.

Gnr are just doing damage control now , because they screwed up by not releasing a single before the radio stations claimed they had the official single and started promoting a demo. Gnr missed the boat again that they could ride to the top of the charts, and now there wasting more time doing damage control when they should be concentrating on marketing/releasing single, i.e CHINESE DMEOCRACY.


See the difference?

Because they cant send a letter to every station that plays a demo.. Believe it or not, alot of people who visit gnr.com have no clue about bbf's interview.. They hear the new song on the radio, and go right to the site for info, and there it is.. So shut up

Not everything on the official site is aimed at people reading these boards.





/jarmo

Yeh I know, but why didn't we find out about the harley davidson leak /unofficial single last year, when it was actually relevent.  Im not calling Dizzy a lier, but it seems that hes using that as an excuse to say that the leak everyone has at the moment is because of that incident.

Harley released a statement last year..
If this leak came from what they sent to Harley, its not an excuse, its the truth!!

agreed, you have to take into account the casual fan who doesn't follow the band like we do and might not even know theres still a GNR, or maybe they saw them in 2006 and that sparked their interest.   

Because the song wasn't on the radio?

It's a theory. Even the first paragraph says No one seems to know where the song came from or how it got out.

So Dizzy offers a possible explanation of where it originated.



/jarmo

Ok, I just hope this doesn't hold up a potential release that would of happened soon, now wont.

As gnr "might" use this to delay a release for another Week/month*, ? :peace: CROSSING MY FINGERS THAT THIS WONT HAPPEN THOUGH

funny how dizzy said everything ive said before.

I am fucking glad about this update. Thank you GNR. Ignore the people complaining. They'll complain no matter what.

This just proves that GNR is getting more committed to their fans and giving news. Of course people are going to complain no matter what.. but thanks GNR. Don't stop updating us from time to time.

That basically sums up what I was thinking, people may be hearing Better on the radio, and arent hardcore fans like us who check every detail about everything. And they go to the "official website "and see that and go oh , ok, so they are working on things. They aren't on message boards, they have no idea probably the saga that we have as fans seen, there is a much larger audience than those of us on boards, but I know for me , alot of you we already knew these things, to an extent, and truth is , Better wasn't on he radio back then, it was only on the HD website till it was pulled.Obviously because it wasnt ready .

and again, you posted that image why?  ???

Maybe he fucking likes that image.    :rant:

Why?  What's your fucking problem anyway???    :rant:

dude, chill out, pm me if you got a problem and you wanna continue this nasty behavior

My point was, the whole thread is about this article, so posting a screen shot of the article is pointless. If he wants to say the likes the picture of Dizzy he should say that, or simply post that image

(http://web.gunsnroses.com/images/news/070312_dizzy_inside.jpg)

Yeah, you're right dude.   Sorry.   :'(  :-\   :-[

Yeah I hear where Dizzy and the band are coming from I would be pissed to if a unfinished song got on the air. People don't know they think its the finished version.  I would be super pissed off but what can you do technology is what it is today, for people who say well this is what they deserve since its taking them 14 years to make BS u just don't put out crap especially when your trying to make a comeback.  I believe we should get the offical version soon and offically released since this last leak really has people thinking its the finished product.

why does the leaks and the live version sound the same? would gnr play the leak version rather then the album versions on each concert, so when the album drops the songs sound different?

I was thinking the same thing....

How did Harley even get ahold of the experimental version? I wonder why the person who was in charge of this didn't check and see what version of the song they were selling to Harley. That seems like one of those little things you should do.

sorry if this is posted before, i'm in a hury....

the version used in the harley ad, is not the same as the latest leak..... because in the harley ad, it doesn't have the nanana's/i know beter-i know beter's in  the outro..........

it's a different version

jarmo your site rocks

gnr official site is piece of shit.
on official site we haven't heard nothing interested,only shit
did they think that we are morons here.


GIVE US REAL NEWS

didn't the song leak a long time before we knew about the harley? thus meaning that the leak did not come from the fact that the wrong version of the ad was posted online by Harley

Yeah it leaked years ago on that Eddie Trunk CD with the other tracks. Seems like Dizzy didn't research this very well.

What a completely useless update.... TELL US SOMETHING WE DONT KNOW!!!!  :rant:

Yeh I know,

This is getting beyond a joke.

First Gnr update there site by saying something back about that no - name band, now this , about a leak, like 5+ months after it ment to of aired,

And we are past march 6th,"tentative date"

No information on a single

No information on the release of chinese democracy


just " we are done recording, and we are about to mix??

So I thought they did that last year, and Axl wanted more promotion,

So that means it was never even intented to be released last year, cause Axl didnt finish recording


Im getting Dizzy with all this back peddling.


Now Jarmo, before you say im negative , and im not a true fan etc etc etc etc,

Understand this, All im doing is stating the facts, and im only putting in my opinion which many others agree with,
when should we take gnr seriously, and when are we going to get some DECENT Updates,
please dont go down that road again how you say

'Fans are angry when they dont get updates, and they complain when they do" because , im sorry, but thats a cop out,
Not one person would be angry here if we just got A DECENT update"
We would all rather no updates, then pointless ones, as this just gets our hopes up, and starts pointless, and stupid threads,
as proof of this is in the past, which clogs up many gnr message boards, and repeats the cycle we only call gnr.
 :beer:

Some will never be satisfied.

First everyone wants a update and if there's one, they are complaining about the content.

First everyone wants to know what status CD has, and if we are told, the whiners complain because it was written by Del James.

First everyone wants to be informed in a regular way ("like every other band"), and still the whiners bitch about a article defending GNR from BS spread by the 'Die Mannequin' singer...

 ::)

The Truth?  :hihi:

We arent asking for much,


all we are asking for is the truth from axl

we dont give a fuck who writes the article, as long as its about the album or the band, nothing else, because its not necessary for us to know secondary bullshit about a no named band,
as we dont even really give a shit,

all we want is

only what we want to know is:

when will gnr realize new cd


on new site we have update on every two months,and what were updates

piece of shits

just look site from some other band?

All of us here are true gnr fans,but when you said "6 marth is tenative date,and before them you 've got information",and think that you have to say something

I just read the thread and feel the need to add my three cents.  :rant:

Let's say the version of "Better" that Harley Davidson had is not the final mix.  Maybe it was real close to being finished because it sounds great but for arguments sake lets say that it's not 100% to the band's satisfaction.  Harley is told to take it off the website which they did.  There is some mislabeling/confusion/whatever.  Then somehow this same version of Better (which definetely sounds different/better than the other leaks) gets to Idolator and the wildfire spreads to the point where radio stations are playing a demo.  Not that far fetched since digital duplication loses no quality and can be shared from computer to website to computer to computer to computer to radio station.  You get the point.

And while we're on the subject, I believe Dizzy about none of the leaks having been done on purpose.  I don't think that a band like GN'R has to generate interest through leaks.  Would you leak something thay you've worked on for ten years and is in the final mix stages?  And if the version of "Better" that appears on Chinese Democracy is noticably different than the latest leaked version will anyone on HTGTH step up and say 'I'm appologize for insinuating that Dizzy was lying' or will we find something else to gripe about??

We go to the same GN'R sites everyday and when GN'R doesn't update enough we bitch, moan, and complain.  Then when we get information straight from the source, GN'R's official website, and from band member's-- some of us have the audacity to call the band member a liar.  It's so rude.  No wonder why they don't post very often.  I know these boards are here for discussion but why is it that everytime we get some legit information, like Axl's letter and now Dizzy's explantion of how Better may have gotten leaked, the threads are so littered in negativity?

I won't be surprised if people are bitching about ugly artwork and too small letters on the back of the package when the CD comes out....   : ok:

 ;D ;D  LOL too funny. Someone should have known that an album as mysterious and endless as CD might attract people to steal demos  :hihi: Wonder why they gave an unfinished demo to Harley Davidson in the first place if they did not want it to be broadcast...????!!

Haha i dont buy this at all, but the masses will and that is who that little tidbit on the website is for, not us. The Harley version is clearly completly different. Robins guitar is much higher in the mix, whereas in this new leak his guitar part is still pretty quiet.

Jonx

I called WEBN (Cincinnati) several days ago (3/10/07) to see if they were still playing "Better", because I had only heard it once since the stations started playing it. I asked the guy how did they hear about the song, because I had called last ?Saturday (3/3/07) and they didn't know anything about the song. ?He said that the record company had sent the song to WEBN.

[quote
"It?s really frustrating working on something as hard as we have and then having it wind up on the Internet before it?s finished. Hearing a demo on the radio really sucks."


One thing to say to that comment, That is the world we currently live in, If you don't like it happening, drop the damn album with the new material on it and it will stop all the leaks and bullshit.

If the album had been released on the "tentative" date of March 6th, not one soul would be commenting on the "unauthorized" leak of a Better demo!

my $0.02 anyhow

I like to see Dizzy comment on something like this.  Its nice to know that someone whose been in the band longer than 9 months still has a tongue.  I dont really like the subject matter as it sounds like total nonsense (you dont want people to hear unfinished demos dont send them to Harley Davidson).  However, it was on the website and it was Dizzy, i dont necessarily see this as an update, but rather the last two messages have shown people are now responding.  Maybe Axl changed his policy for people related to the band keeping their mouth shut and given them more free reign to defend the band.  IF thats so, I like it and think while this is pretty worthless as an update, it is good for the band overall.

If CD comes out.  We don' know if it will.  We do know that for 16yrs GNR has not had any new material on a album.  Excluding Oh My God.

The world needs to know that the leaks were not done by the band and that is not an official single. That is important news. The Harley thing is understandable as well because you don't need a completely finished track for the commercial. They only needed a small portion of the song and it was pretty well recorded and mixed already. It may not be the final version but it was enough for a commercial. Someone from Harley probably leaked the demo that we have now. No big deal. All fairly obvious points in my opinion. If anyone thinks the band leaked TWAT, IRS, and Catcher, they are crazy as hell. No one in their right mind leaks tracks that are that poorly mixed. It just doesn't make any sense. The good news is that hopefully Better will not be the first single now. Hopefully, we will get a fresh rocking track with a little more darkness and attitude. Gnr's big comeback should't hinge on a quirky half pop half rock track. I see Better as a strong third single. Just my two cents. ;)

well, even if the leak was unintended by the band.....once the album is finally(if ever) handed to the record company....are they really that naive that they think it won't be online prior to the release date?
hell.....there are albums that come online 2-3 months before they are schedulled to arrive for sale.....

The statement is lies anyway.

The band didnt release the leaks themselves?!?!? Pretty conincidental how those leaked songs just happened to be the ones they obviously rehearsed to then play on tour a matter of months later!! CONVENIENT OR WHAT!!!

Then Better was accidently sent to Harley instead of Paradise City...  DO YOU THINK WE ARE ALL IDIOTS OR WHAT!!!!

 : ok: GNR should pull that from their web-site. Updates like this make me fear that this band will never get a clue.? I'll never understand why this band would complain about radio airplay. I don't care if it is finished or unfinished. DJs like and it and they're playing it. GNR should be sending them thank you letters, not bitch.

Axl and the crew should be eternally grateful that a brand name that hasn't released original material in 16 years still has enough clout within the industry to warrant receiving much desired traction that others toil at for years and never acquire(and all over an unfinished demo, no less!).  They should be sending flowers to these stations that are proving that people still give a shit.  I have learned patience when it comes to the record, but reactions like this from the GNR camp boggle my mind.

Lets say you are in the resturant-buisness and some dude serves half-finished food to customers
regardles of what people think of it, don't you think it would suck for the keep? :hihi:
I think they are, "Thank you and good night" :P

Working in a television broadcast facility for 16 years has taught me something with my experience here when thinking about when promos get cut for the channels or music that it used that isn't supposed to be.   It's possible that a version could have been sent they weren't supposed to use to "tinker" with, it's unlikely but it's possible.   When we have a show that has music that hasn't been "approved or licensed" emails and phone calls go out all over to not air this version or pull it asap because they can get sued.   So it's possible this did happen and HD fucked up and now they could be getting sued but I would think that with all that has happened with leaking songs that GNR would be especially cautious about doing such a thing.

I'm now waiting for the following statement on the GNR website:


Bigfoot has stolen the master copies of Chinese Democracy.




The sad part is...alot of people will beleive it.

Amen. Drop the damn album in stores, you don't have to worry about the leaks.

Acting surprised that your songs are leaked on the internet in 2007 is kinda dumb. Hell, there are movies that cost studios $100-$200 million to produce get leaked onto the internet before their release dates.  That's just the nature of enterainment in this era.


So basically, in the last two updates, we've got nothing new about the album. Just some refuting or rumors. Maybe something bigger is in the pipeline?

I just can't help but say this:

You know what would help this issue? Finishing and releasing the album.

(http://a145.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/64/l_536fbdf874bc2ef069b68cb5173e76c0.jpg)

And one more thing (and hey the ad above is fucking funny  :hihi:)

The people here who are saying we will never be happy are a bunch of fucking slaves. We just want the damn album. Any other announcments or shit like this with having Dick Dizzy Tracy solving the great mystery of the Better leak, is just tired. Show us the official release date/album. Enough already with the filler nonsense that no one gives a fuck about.

Hehe Weekly world news...funny shit.

:hihi: Nice.

It really doesn't matter to me what happened, but it is strange for a group of guys in a band who repeatedly say they have no idea about anything related to GNR, including versions of songs, that Dizzy would know all of this. But, its hard to doubt him... but seeing its GNR its also hard to believe it.

When you work with any company (in this case HD) regarding any sort of use of your content (art, business information, etc.) you don't actually give them the final/finished product. You give them a rough idea of what they can expect to work with. This is done for many reasons, and probably in this case because they weren't ready to release the song/album at that time. It could also be because the content (or song) was not finished. Whatever reason it is, it makes perfect sense to NOT give the company the finished product.

a.

there 2 updates in 2 days...i like it...even if we only got 2 a week i'd be happy as a pig in shit..see for me it doesnt have to be about the album jsut to give some sorta official news...show the world the band exists : ok:

good work GnR Camp, keep it up please :yes:

So by discussing something pointless such as the stupid mannequen singer or Better, the world will now? know gnr? exists and are a serious band? cmon.

The world already knows this band exists. The countless delays are keeping them up to date and telling them whats really going on. They dont need anything else......


If we dont get the album by May or June we arent getting the album til November.

god who cares about this? all I want is a date! not this.. :-\

GUYS !!!!

I?m a musician too !! we?re working on our 2? album and recording our finished songs on studio, and Mixing / Mastering do not take so long!!! all that matters is that they?re using lots of synts, back vocals, guitars, orchestra and shits !!! the mixing guy gets crazy with all that layers and stuff !!  put in mind that ALL THE RECORDING IS DONE !!

hey a regularily updated website is a step in the right direction IMO. and it talks about the HD ad...i mean it used to be taboo, now the band adressed it...and as for the DM singer...well it was regarding a common assumption about axl that they denied....one rumor at a time it seems...

I know, i know a date for the album would be ideal, but still its official GnR news, so that is something...isnt it? :-\

oh, and you believe that members aren't saying that just to protect themselves from fans/stalkers who would endlessly keep trying to pull a rabbit out of their hat?
of course they know what's going on, and of course they all have different mixes or even the final mixes, otherwise how will they have any ideas for songs that were still on a writting process?
it really takes a lot of the pressure on Dizzy, for instance, to say "i don't know nothing" while drinking some Jagger on a H'n'B show than being bombed with questions like "how's the intro to CD sounding?"

cybercurves, it actually did say that, and after that, when better was removed, it said what you say it said.

I think most of us here would love to have a release date and get to hear the results of the band's work as soon as possible.

I'm pretty sure that the band knows we'd like to hear their new music too.

But some of us aren't bothered by it to the point that we need to keep mentioning the obvious day after day.....





/jarmo

Whatever, man. They haven't just said these things to fans. They aren't even sure who is really in the band.

When you've taken as long to release an album as GN'R has, newly recorded STATIC is in high demand and will find it's way to the internet, then the radio.

I think that statement by Dizzy is somewhat fabricated...

Surely not  ::) At least we have something to talk about  :hihi:

This is my theory about this.   

I think that BBF must've come up with some new ideas and input for the album that Axl and the band really liked and they wanted his stuff to be on the album. What else could be the reason for having more recording to do?

Just my theory.   :yes:

I doubt very much if BBF has come up with new ideas insofar as structure etc... his input will merely be recording tracks on top of existing songs. New solos and lead lines for stuff... nothing too taxing.

Its funny how people call these releases "updates"... cos they arent... then are useless bits of info that mean nothing to us fans. And its kind insulting for them to mention such irrelevant tat when they have the main issue of the march 6th release date to explain and shed new light on.

True. They are not updates on the satus of the album. This much is a fact.

Bingo. I love this band to no fucking end and I shared these same sentiments earlier. It is insulting that they released this kind of "update." I don't like to feel so looked down on by my favorite band. Give us what we want or just don't say anything at all because this is insulting to fans. Crock of shit it is (Hey as long as there ws a Bigfoot comment earlier)..

That's a LIE and Dizzy knows it.

Here is my theory of this

The album isn't mixed per Del recently so that we know, they give HD an unmixed demo to get the work started back then, they don't make the deadline with the mixed, finished Better and the HD deal goes belly up with that song used for the commercial.   The person that has the demo waits a couple months, then leaks it.   

Thanks for the update, dizzy and doug.


The media and people here were discussing those matters.  the mud has to be beat off somehow.


and how you know?

I guess that could have happend... Or it was Dizzy who leaked it and is trying to blame everyone else. He looks pretty suspicious in that picture...


Dude, March 6th was explained. It was delayed, remember? Del said so in his update. :hihi:

You know the only reason that HD would need a demo version is if they created a new commercial so they could insert the finished version in when it was done. It makes no sense inserting a demo into a commercial that is already made.

Well they would have to time it.  The video and timing of the song would have to match.  They wouldn't be able to just insert it.  Video has what's called timecode and that's hours/mins/seconds/frames, it's more work then just merely inserting a video into an already finished commercial.

yeah make sure the sheep are at the right position at the correct point in the song or whatever, and maybe the ful intent was to hand over the finished track as soon as it was done :-\ we dont know...basically is what it boils down to...anything coulda happened...this is gnr after all :peace:

Inserting Audio into an already made video...

Thanks, sorry I meant Audio.    IF they wanted a certain part of the song to jive with the running of the sheep or bulls [whatever they were lol] on the video, then they would need to time it some how.

Doesn't take away from my listening pleasure...

You wanna know what really sucks? Waiting over a decade for an album release and constantly getting smoke blown up your ass. What do you think, DIZZY?

All leaks except CITR were high-quality. All leaks except CITR were played live by the band in 2006. No other new (unheard) songs were played. As soon as CITR leaked (obviously from another source, as it was lower quality then others) the cease&desist letter started flying around from GNR lawyers. You don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure that out.....

Actually.. cease and desist letters were sent around once the songs ended up on the radio. And also, you claim all the leaks were high quality.. but they weren't. Better and IRS were like... 256kbs Mp3. And TWAT was a 128Kbs mp4 itunes file. If GN'R leaked it.. why not in all the same format? Or why not at a "high quality" like you claim they should have been?

Not only that.. but why does it matter what quality the leaks were? Are you saying a legitimate leak could only be a low scratchy thing like CITR was? I don't think so..

But if you want to bend the facts a little bit... go ahead.

Not that I'm saying one thing or another - but it wasn't until General was rumored to be leaked along with CITR that management began monitoring the forums. People were signing up on MyGNR asking for information on who leaked the song. I was one of the first people given Catcher in the Rye, and I didn't leak it but I made a post after it leaked saying I had been given it the day before; and I suddenly got about 10 PMs from people who had just registered not asking for the song but asking for information on who gave it to me, how they could be reached, and if I had any more info on them. It was pretty freaky. I wasn't the only one who got these PMs, and soon a lot of these people asking for info on the leakers were banned for making posts saying they had other songs and they wanted to trade with the CITR leaker (who claimed to have General amongst others) - they were trying to smoke out whoever leaked it. I think it may have worked because we never got General or anything else, and this was right around when the 22 seconds of "Checkmate" (Prostitute?) leaked; I think they got whoever it was right after that and prevented another leak.

So whether or not the original leaks were intentional, I don't think they took an active interest until CITR leaked. It was obviously a final, mixed version rather than a rough demo, and it was recorded through analog output rather than a straight rip from a CD as you can tell by the sound quality and the skip at one point.

Why are people so bitchy?? So what if GnR gives us another update that mentions nothing about CD or the process or when it's coming out or what they're doing or why they're touring again without the album.? And who cares if his comments are intentionally vague or an outright lie.? At least it's SOMETHING.? At least it's a group of letters that grouped to form and sentences that kinda give the impression of conveying information.

Can't we at least be happy about that?

I swear... some people will never be happy.? Jesus, you guys aren't going to be happy until Axl either releases the album or offers some reasonable explanation of why the process has been stalled.

And even then, some people still wont be happy.

Yup. This is getting ridiculous.   :puke:

I suppose you'd all be happier if Axl just went and died too right?          :rant:           :nervous:

If that were to happen, there'd be people on here and elsewhere, that'd be like: - "Oh, well, that's just great!!! Fucking Axl went and fucked us over again!!! I bet you he fucking planned this to happen, just to piss all of us off one more time!!! Fucking asshole!!!"

 :rofl:

So mango that is what you don't know but just think.

I have no doubt that a band don't want the public to hear their works in progress,
which those leaks are.

None of this would matter if the album  were  out.

How much do you want to bet Axl calls the album "unfinished" when it's released.

Wasn't Oh My God also an unmixed demo when it showed up on End of Days?  I swear... GnR needs to quit licensing unfinished demos to major companies for ad campaigns and tie-ins.  This is twice now! 

I personally think Axl uses the "unfinished demo" defense to head off any criticism his music might get.  He should be cool with it.  He's an artist.  Not everybody's going to like everything he makes. :o :no:

Funny considering Bumblefoot basically said the same thing.. That the leaked Better wasn't the finished version.




/jarmo

Maybe it is an unfinished demo.  I don't really know.

I do seriously doubt that TWICE NOW a major company would build a tie-in/marketing campaign around an unfinished demo. 

Does anybody really believe the Label Maker story?   They sent the wrong CD to Harley Davidson?  Like Harley Davidson couldn't get a recording of Paradise City from any place else?  And then when they get the CD and find out it's actually a new song from Chinese Democracy, they just decide to build an ad campaign around it and promote it as "the first single" from Chinese Democracy?  Why would they do that?  It doesn't make any sense.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding what Dizzy said in that interview.

But remember -- this is the same band that claims "Oh My God," the only piece of music they've managed to record and release in fourteen years, was just an unfinished, unmixed demo... that just happened to end up in a major Hollywood movie and on the sound track.  To me, it just seemed like Axl was covering his ass when his big single dropped and not many people liked it.

"unfinished demo" is one thing, "unmixed" is totally different, and it's obvious that this last version of Better was unmixed, probably a vocal mix (and too much Pittman in the mix too).

I think a song can be called unfinished until it's mixed, mastered and approved by the artist.



Finally we agree on something.


/jarmo

The 2006 leak of Better sounds just like the version that was used on the Harley Davidson ad, which just so happend to sound like the version Gn'R played live. Why send Harely a demo mix? I think Dizzy is talking sh-t, probably because they (Gn'R) are looking for reasons to dismiss the 2006 mix of Bettter as they've made some more changes to the song since 2006  ;)

"It?s really frustrating working on something as hard as we have and then having it wind up on the Internet before it?s finished." .zZ  ;D

About the version being played on the radio:
Is it the 2006 leak, the 2007 leak or a clean Harley Davidson 2006 mix  :peace:

All joking aside from people, cant we all admit that regardless of the content of the update, its still pretty cool to hear someone other than Bumblefoot or Frank speak? ?I hope this is a trend and we get more little interviews and comments posted on the site by people who have been in the band for years. ?I would love to hear Robin talk about even the tiniest detail and have it posted on the site, it makes the band look more like a band and shows a desire to speak to the fans.

Also, I wouldnt be surprised if Merk sent Harley the demo because they were planning some "gorilla surprise release" and having the song showcased in a commercial would help generate buzz.  My guess is Merk was trying to do some promo, didnt have a finished copy yet, sent the demo he liked best to Harley (since GNR had been on tour since Ron joined this would explain why he never heard it) to let them hear how good it is and decide on what parts of the song they wanted to keep and what video they wanted with the song, this under the idea that the actual mastered version would be sent in a couple weeks.  Harley probably tried to use the demo, the band made them stop, some disgruntled Harley worker or a GNR fan who works in Harleys advertising department posts the demo on the net, and there you go.  It seems kinda logical to me to be honest. 

You find two updates, that amount to bollox cool  :hihi:

This is post of the day. :hihi:

Seriously, GNR must have the 3 stooges handling their recordings. Things happen, get leaked, get put on movie soundtracks, get labled wrong, and Axl doesn't seem to know anything about it... Almost like some of his tours.

What a stupid "update" I think Dizzy knows BETTER ?:yes:

Maybe Gn'R were supposed to deliver the finished mix of Better during 2006 and failed to do so (just as they failed to deliver the album). No doubt Harley Davison got pissed off by this, used Paradise City, and scrapped the Better idea. The Harley advert looked like it had a ton of money spent on it, and I doubt they wanted to delay there advert going out, as they had probably already spent months deciding when the ad was due to air, and it's not like Harley are going to hang around for a band, even if that band happens to be Gn'R.

Really, untaught through???? ?They (the gnr camp) are not exactly bombarding radio stations with cease and desist orders over the playing of Better. ?Not to mention that, as someone pointed out in this thread, there was an ad campaign built around or including Better. ?

Are we that vein to believe that a band that has fired it's manager in the recent past, and has poured at least ten million dollars into a ten year project wouldn't turn to unconventional methods of making headlines in order to promote. ?

Why respond to some bull shit article that wouldn't make a major headline, unless the Guns N' Roses name was attached to it.

Why bring more attention to a song that was "unintentionally leaked", and since when has the GNR camp become the progressive clarifiers of all leak, rumors, and gossip. ?It is a bit unusual. ?

Why this all only MY OPINION, to think that Axl's renegoiation of his contract with his label hasn't or will delay the relase of the album would be absurd. ?And to think that the biggest hold up in a multi million dollar business doesn't have something to do with MONEY would be uneducated. ?Again only my opinion, but maybe the money that is wanted to promote this album isn't there or available on the scale that some people would like.

It's funny how complaining and such goes round in circles here and how people like to fit goings on into there own personal view of GNR.

Of course, I'd be accused of the same thing if I suggested that GN'R, in a bid to try and get the album promotion rolling as quickly as possible (who'd have thought they'd be trying to please their fans?), actually sent the unfinished track to Harley Davidson to work with so the advert was ready to go as soon as the track was finished and could be added to the advert straight away to go to press.

Of course, this is waaaaayyyyy to far fetched ?::)

@#$%Funker

Could be the case.

But until the day that GNR gets their PR act together, nobody will ever really know what's going on with this band.?

I think it sucks.? But what am I gonna do about it?? The fans are powerless.? I'll still buy tickets to see the band because Axl's one of my heroes.?

If I didn't quit being a fan after the humiliating disasters of 2001/2002, then I guess I'll be a fan forever.? I really hope that Axl pulls his shit together.? I do believe he's trying -- he's just so paralyzed with self-doubt, expectation, and his weird persecution complex.? It's a shame.

When he's just a singer who sings, he's the best in the world.? I wish he'd just go back to being a singer.

people, who complain about this update really have to take a nap off the forums until there?s a firm release date for CD. or even better, stop visiting this site. there are plenty of other forums, where whining and moaning seems to be appreciated.

dizzy`s explanation is a little unclear. however, it makes perfectly sense. gnr sent a demo of better to harley, so that they could figure out how to use the real version in a commercial later. for some reason, someone from harley jumped the gun and posted the unfinished version of that commercial on their website. it was quickly put down again anyways...

then someone leaked the better demo on the internet, claiming it was the new gnr single (probably a misunderstanding, rather than a planned action against the band...), where it quickly spread. some people sent the demo to radio djs and well....   the rest is history.


the band decided to have dizzy giving us the update instead of del james/ axl/ management or simply their web master. the update could?ve happened two weeks ago.... well, it could..  but it didn`t. c&d orders weren?t sent out before either....

as for an update regarding CD. it`s being mixed right now and we`ll most likely be informed, when  that is finished. it`s definitely no coincidence, that we?re getting these little updates. it`s a sign, that the band cares about the fans, the recent events, and that we`ll probably never be in the dark again, like we were in the years before 2006.

Man, you sound like a battered wife.

i like all the "guns and roses/axl owes us nothing." well, i would say he owes us a lot since his 10 plus year break from releasing plus all the stuff he owns was bankrolled by the fans who bought his stuff way back when. i probably bought 5 copies of appetite over the years when the previous one got scratched. i mean if axl wasn't so filthy rich (not even poor, just had an 'average income') do you really think this album STILL wouldn't be out. if he wasn't so wealthy (from us fans) this album would have been out in 1995. yet its 2007 no album, and axl's driving a ferrari (of the many he owns) around. but yeah HE OWES US NOTHING. garbage. my two cents.

peace out.


jarmo... delete away.

You know, there has been alot of talk around here lately from people saying basically the same thing over and over. ?It's usually something the lines of this:

"People were not happy when they didn't get updates. ?Now we get updates and they are still not happy." ?Then they usually go on to say something along the lines of "you are not a real fan if you come onto a GNR forum and complain". ?I'm getting a little dissappointed in this. ?It's weird. ?I used to not beleive it when people said that there are alot of GNR fans who will beleive anything and everything that this band will say about the release of this album that we ALL are looking forward to. ?I just didn't beleive it. ?I couldn't comprehend the idea that so many people would be that blind. ?Well, I was wrong. ?With this latest "news story" and the reaction it is getting from some people around here is absolutely mind-blowing. ?When I first read the story I expected to come on this site (and others) and see the fans coming out in droves upset at the fact that our intelligence have been ridiculed. ?Instead, I see a few people poking fun at the insanity of the article(and dammit...it IS funny), and a bunch of people (including the site's administrator) seemingly having no problem with it and getting angry at the people who think it's a joke. ?It was funny last night...today it's just sad. ?Seriously. ?What would it take this band to do for you to be dissappointed? ?I'm starting to think nothing. ?I'm waiting for the following post on the GNR site:


"Axl delaying album's release because he is going to be spending the next few years butt-raping the mothers and sisters of all the posters on HTGTH. "

And then the next day there will be a big thread about this news with a ton of people saying things like "If Axl needs to do this, we should support him as fans" and "This is a good sign. ?It's an update and when we get updates it means things are moving along".

I am a fan of Guns N' Roses. ?I have been for a really long time. ?There have been many things I have liked about this band musically and socially. ?I liked all the old albums, I like all the "leaked" songs, I liked every concert I've been to (old era and new era), I like all of the band members past and present, I like their website, I like their videos, I like the title of this album, I like it all. ?I even like updates like the one we got in December from Axl. ?I even saw the "tentative" release date as being just that...TENTATIVE. ?But seriously, how can you not look at this "update" and ?laugh? ?It's so damned silly.

With all that said, I think us fans (and don't you ever think otherwise...we are fans) who think that what the band has done PR-wise lately is insulting to us hardcore supporters are the REAL FANS who REALLY want to see this album. ?We are frustrated because we hate the waiting. ?We want to hear this thing. ?We want to go into a record store and buy it. ?We want to hold it in our hands. ?When you say things like "we just need to be patient. ?It'll come out when it's ready" to me shows that you really aren't truly a fan of the music. ?You are more a fan of being a fan.

isnt this the first time a track has actually been named on the official site? Let alone an article about one....That has to be another good sign ;)

the only people axl "owes" the record to, is instercope/geffen/universal, we just get it as a buy-product :hihi:

i`m no battered wife, i`m a member of this forum who`s sick of the constant complaining, that?s going on here. get a life people.....

i`m sick of this wait as well by the way....

great post... my thoughts exactly. "its so damn silly" PERFECT, we are all so excited about a release date and we get press releases like this. i mean the bands these guys like/came from would never pull this. can you imagine stinson and the replacements treating fans like this in the 80's? never. basically its a joke. the you need patience line after 12 years? come on... i need patience like i need a hole in my head.

I have often wondered about the people that work for Axl.  Is it him or them?   He did fire Merck but I dunno I expected to see a change but I haven't really, not noticible anyway at least not yet.    These updates are a good start,  I hope it just continues more and more, ie getting the mixing done, PR and lots of it, vids...etc..

well danny....


people, who believe everything the band tells them are either completely stupid or ignorant. that?s no reason to repeat it over and over though.....

i mean it`s quite obvious, that noone worked hard on this for 10 years....  merck even said, that axl managed to spent 3 days of work on the record in 2006 :-\  in my opinion it?s even almost safe to say, that nothing was done between 2004 and 2006.....

but if people care so much about this album, that it makes them sad and obsessed they should really get a life... i check this forum to get the latest news and information on my favourite band, the record i`m waiting for and to have some nice discussions....  not to hear some whiners repeat their crap over and over.

everyone knows, that gnr and axl aren?t perfect, but we can?t change anything. if anyone read the del james article, you should know what the gnr camp thinks of us internet fans....  like it or not. i don?t even care about it.

Listen, you paid for five copies and you got five copies.

Do you go to the baker's house and tell him that he owes you because he bought the house with the money you spent on bread?

How about the doctor's house? The car mechanic? The teacher?


What a bunch of bullshit you come up.




That's an insult, so here's one for you: Fuck off.

And it's spelled F-i-n-c-k.



/jarmo

 ?

I don't think anyone in the world has more patience than a Gn'R fans.

Except the ones in St.Louis, Montreal, Vancouver, and Philly ? :rofl:

I've only scanned through this thread quickly, but hey, what is with all the complaints? Your comments are not exactly going to encourage the band to keep giving updates. ?::) Use some common sense, please.

The version of 'Better' that is out there right now is not a final mix, and it getting played on the radio is misrepresenting GN'R. It's been said before, and Diz is just saying it all again.

What's sad to me is that these people just don't address this. ?They don't even deny it. ?I hate the fact that I am lumped into a group because I am a fan just like these people.

They want a release date. They know it's impossible to give a final release date at his point because the album is being mixed, but they want it anyway.

Easy to please....


/jarmo

Maybe these comments will encourage the band to give better updates.

"Listen, you paid for five copies and you got five copies.

Do you go to the baker's house and tell him that he owes you because he bought the house with the money you spent on bread?

How about the doctor's house? The car mechanic? The teacher?


What a bunch of bullshit you come up."


the docter, the mechanic, the baker ALL continue working. that mechanic would fix my car tommarow if needed... i wouldn't have to wait 12 plus years. why he collects royalties for work he did almost 20 years ago, so its not really the same.

actualy, it IS f-i-n-k when its references a movie called barton FINK. check out the line below my picture. (its a movie about a writer who gets writers block; check it out sometime its fantastic)

This message board is all about opinions, so...

My belief is that the one handed to Harley was a properly mixed version. However, I think Better has changed again since the one they gave to Harley was purely Buckethead and I think the new version of better, that will appear on CD, is the version with Bumblefoot on.

Jarmo pushing for a release date  :o

some whiny ass bitches.  what a disgrace.    fuck if everything this band did made me so upset I wouldn't bother.    This has to be a new lowpoint for an already pathetic "fan"base.

There's loads of other music out there, if your mechanic, doctor or baker stopped 'working' (which isn't the case for Axl) you could go to others and get the same service, which is the same for music.  Plenty of other bands and artists out there, go visit a store.

And of course he can still get paid for work he did 20 years ago, people are still buying it from him.

why dont u get minus karmo jarmo? huh? huh? ?:confused:

they should release the album so better CAN be on the commercial

Ok. ?So then, if Del James article a couple of weeks ago said "Recording is done. ?We are currently mixing the album and we have a pretty good idea about how long this process will take. ?So, the release date of the album is (insert date here)." you would be the first to say: "That's IMPOSSIBLE! ?They can't have a release date if they are mixing!!! ?This band is lying to us!!!"

I doubt that.

its being mixed.  can't be released until after its mixed.

This is the way I see it. The most discussion on this board for the last 2 weeks has been about the latest leak of Better. People have been wondering where it came from, is it the final mix, is it actually the single, what happened to the HD commercial with Better and what this update does is confirm and explain everything that we have been talking about for the last two weeks. How is it a pointless update? They explained the situation with the song to the fans, its called communication, something that a lot of fans have beeen complaining about lately.

Now if you dont like the update, then thats too bad. Just because you dont want to hear anything unless it has to do with a release date for the album does not mean that this was a pointless update. Everything that this board has been talking about for the last 2 weeks was answered in this update. Whether you choose to believe Guns or not is a whole different story. This is how things went down as far as Better goes, take it or leave it.

Stop being a bunch of babies just cause we didnt get our precious CD release date yet.

I was given -1 Karma today, which I'm assuming, is for "the stabbing in the eyeball" incident. ??    ???


I think jarmo should give himself -1 Karma for what he just wrote above.    :rofl:

He wouldn't fix your car for free because you used the same shop 15 year ago.

You might as well stop with the whole "Axl owes me" shit. It's not working....

Some of the money from your album purchases went ot the record company as well.. Maybe they owe you too?



All right then...




/jarmo

Sorry.  Can't aggree with you here.  Jarmo's site.  Jarmo's rules.  You're in HIS house.

Well stated.

I completely agree. ? ?: ok:



*bba*

Some people bought tickets for the last two "Chinese Democracy World Tours" under the impression that they had something to do with Chinese Democracy.  I can understand why they'd feel disappointed.

Sure we want a release date, even fans that aren't jaded wouldn't mind a release date but I think if the band continues on an upward spiral of updating us on a regular basis, like this 2 updates close to each other and continue to be that way, I think they could win back the jaded fans that have been with them for years, waiting for years, with long, long breaks of silence inbetween the updates that have heard over that time.   2006 as great as it was, was a blow to find out it didn't get released and now you have fans more jaded then ever.   This could be start of turning it all around, give the people what they want, could a regular update on the band once a week be so terrible?

They could guess, but until they schedule a release date with the record company, it's kinda impossible to say for sure it's gonna be out on a certain date.

Who'd be the first one saying the band lied to them if they guessed a new date and it didn't happen? You....



Like this?


Week#1: We're mixing the album. Everything is rolling along nicely.
Week#2: The mixing continues. Everything sounds amazing so far.
Week#3: Third week of mixing. Everyone's really happy with the results so far. Bumblefoot was on the radio.
Week#4: We had a problem with the hardware at the studio. But it was quickly fixed. Dizzy went to ply a few shows with his friend.

Etc..

You don't think we'd get the same "stop with the useless updates" after two updates?




/jarmo

not everything this bad does makes me angry... i like the tangible, real stuff. all this PR bull shit is real. you CAN complain and still be a 'real fan.' saying otherwise is absurd.

its like john lydon said "blind acceptance is a sign... of stupid fools who stay in line"

Um, no.  You're specific words were it is impossible to have a release date when they are mixing.  This isn't about a secure release date or a record company's set release date.  This is just about what you said and me wanting to seriously know if there is ANYTHING that the band could say that you would'nt believe.  So, I ask you again.  Since you said it is impossible for them to have a release date while the band is in the mixing stage, if they gave us one in the mixing stage would you say that it's impossible?  It's a simple question.

And by the way, if I got a tentative release date and it wasn't reached...that alone wouldn't be enough for me to be the first one to say that the band is lying to us.  It wasn't before, it isn't now.

yeah they do... but they need "something" to RELEASE "SOMETHING"

i hope my earlier posts don't seem angry i'm not angry at axl... more frustrated, i wish he was more SURE of the product thats coming (and I DO believe it is), sometimes i wish he had the faith in himself that so many fans have in him.


as far as F-I-N-C-K goes, yeah he owns slash too.


peace out

I'm pretty sure Axl's very 'sure' of the product considering the time he's invested in it.

The shows I was at, I saw 4 to 5 songs from the album played at all 4 shows I atteneded.   Fuck thats more than some veteran bands play off their latest release (as in already out).    Metallica did a Master of Puppets tour last year and barely played anything from St. Anger on their last tour.   Was that a big deal too?

And when the album IS out, I'd expect a few more songs to be played.
 

no kidding...these updates are more than i ever hoped of getting before the album was out :beer:

cheer up fuckers...it could be way worse....at least they are communicating at the moment ;)


had to stick that in didnt ya... ::)

There probably would be some people still complaining, but I don't think that there would be nearly as many. ?I know I would'nt be complaining about this if it happened and it was consistant.

a SET IN STONE release date with this band wouldn't mean anything anyways.

Yes, if they said "That Danny sure is a nice positive fellow", I wouldn't buy it.



I assume you, Jackamo! and Danny are among those people?




Uh huh huh.

Yeah, I'm gonna ban myself from this board that I created so that people like you can turn it into a shit hole.

If you disrespect this place and me, I might react to that. Get used to it.




/jarmo

maybe Axl has taken offence at the recent Rollingstone (magazine) review of Better. All that stuff about the song sounding like 3 different songs mixed together, and something about the intro sounding like a creepy baby  :peace:

I'm not.  It's been pretty well-documented around here that I've thought that this album is NEVER coming out.  I went to the shows because I knew they would fucking rule.  And guess what?  They did.  Uh oh.  I just said something positive, Jarms.


You sure do make alot of assumptions about people around here.  Everything isn't black and white, you know.

I didn't ask you to ban yourself jarmo.    :no:

I was simply suggesting that you should be eligible to receive negative karma just like the rest of us.    :hihi:   :rofl:

Now I'm a whiny ass bitch, disgrace, pathetic "fan" because I think these updates were weak and fail to shed any light on Chinese Democracy or the process Axl's working through?

And jarmo's telling people to "fuck off?"

Wow... the stress is getting to everyone. ?We just handle it in different ways. ?Some people blame the band's management. ?Some people blame the people who blame the band's management.

I think it's funny that the "no insults" rule doesn't apply to some.

So, why do you care about the updates then?





You're one to talk about that. Everything is black for you as far as I can tell by your recent posts.




The people doing most of the complaining in this thread are basically you, Jackamo!, Russian Roulette, MotherGooseLUVR.

Most others are reasonable and they can see that not everything is so black and white.



"We don't get updates!  :crying: "

"Is that site turning into a another Gnronline which will never be updated?  :crying: "

So what happens when they've updated the site twice in just a few days?

"We don't get the right updates!  :crying: "


"They probably don't want to give a release date until it's set in stone to avoid another tentative date incident"

"But they should at least tell us when it might be out!  :crying: "

"But last time a release date didn't happen, you got so sad...."

"But Axl should tell us a new tentative date! We deserve to know!  :crying: "

"Don't you understand why it might not be a good idea?"

"No! I want a release date! I don't care about the mixing! I want the album out!  :crying: "





/jarmo

It was more of a joke. Some of you don't seem to understand when I'm trying to reason so I have to be blunt.



I've tried to explain the updates and no release date info for days, weeks, months.... But still people refuse to take a deep breath and consider the other possibilities.

I guess it's impossible to consider anything else is possible when you've told yourself the band lies to us all the time for years.




/jarmo

No, actually. ?As I've said over and over again, I go to see Guns because Axl is one of my heroes and always has been. ?Even through the humiliating 2001/2002 years, I continued to see and support Axl.

I just suggested that maybe, somewhere, there are fans out there who've been fooled into thinking CD was coming out... based on the fact that they're embarking on their third consecutive Chinese Democracy World Tour.

Jarmo, you always like to play that little game. ?Someone makes a criticism, and you blow it up and distort the intent of their message to make them seem unreasonable.

If someone says, "I think GnR could do a much better job of updating their fans on these annyong delays."
And you respond with something like, "What do you want Axl to do? ?Sit at his computer all day, posting little updates like 'we just mixed part of Better."

No. ?You know perfectly well what people are talking about when they say they want updates. ?They want the same information that you have. ?The same information that EMS has. ?The same information that Talking Metal has. ?The same information that every member of the band has, but is under a retarded gag order that keeps them from sharing it with their long suffering fans.

I care about updates because I'd love to be wrong. ?I'd love to have the album. ?My recent posts have been my different opinions reacting to everything that is being talked about. ?That is the definition of being not black and white.

And by the way...you still have not really answered the basic question: Is there ANYTHING that the band can say that you would think is a lie?

Why would the band lie to us?
Axl is trying to make a damn good record for us and all you people can do is complain and accuse him of lying :rant:

Right....


But you mentioned how some would be disappointed with buying tickets and thinking the album would be out, but the ones who seem disappointed the most here are the ones I listed.

So all those people you think are disappointed, don't seem to post here and complain.



No, I said we just got an update on the album from Del.

I also mentioned the theory that it's very likely that if the band started doing all these updates, that some of you crave, people would get tired of all the "nonsense updates".

We all know it's impossible to please some of you.


Then there's clowns like me, who are labeled asskissers because I'm happy with what we get.

Why am I happy and content? Because I remember 1996... I remember the exciting and eventful 1998. I remember how many GN'R shows I got to see in 2003.

I remember all the updates on the band I got to read in 2005.


It's pretty simple really. I'm not spoiled. I remember the quiet times.

I also understand that this band isn't like every other band and playing by the rule book. You have to do this, you have to do that.

No you don't. You can do things your own way. Sometimes it might not work out like you wished or planned, but you learn.




For fuck's sake, you keep mentioning that I have some information and I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. So either you show some proof of that or shut up.

Since I never spoke to you, it's kinda funny how you claim to know that I have all this information....


Axl explained a lot in his letter if you took time to read it.




/jarmo

You're right. ?I blame the label maker.

Here are several things I hate: ?Buckethead, Merck, Label Makers. ?They've all conspired to keep Axl from releasing CD. ? :rofl:

I'm just kidding. ?

Those guys all did a lot to help get CD on the road. ?They just couldn't be around to cross the finish line. ?And Axl has some perfectly good explanation for what's going on in the band and why CD was delayed. ?For some reason, he's elected not to share that information with 99.99999999 percent of his fans. ?That's a shame.

EDIT

Jarmo --

Apparently, you're unaware of what info we're talking about.? Check back through your PM's.? The day after I met Axl I sent you a several page long recap, explaining the different things we talked about and why the album was being delayed.? You must have forgotten all the sudden.

I just interviewed Mark Strigl from Talking Metal.? He hangs with BBF a lot too.? We shared some stories we've heard through our different band contacts.? Trust me, there's a lot of info out there that shed light on this whole process.? It's such a pity Axl can't trust anyone with it.? It would do quite a bit to humanize him and create good will wit his fans.

But leaving the PR to Del James means we'll never hear it that way.? Del writes from a very specific perspective -- Axl's buddy.? As fans, we're coming at Axl from a whole different perspective.? The PR should reflect that.? But it's not Del's fault for failing to realize that.? He's just not that talented of a writer.

I think some people are worried that if there are no updates, then Axl & Co. will go into hybernation for the next 4 years...

April 14th, 2007: Chiba, Japan @ Makuhari Messe
April 15th, 2007: Chiba, Japan @ Makuhari Messe
April 18th, 2007: Nagoya, Japan @ Rainbow Hall
April 21st, 2007: Osaka, Japan @ Intex Osaka
April 22nd, 2007: Osaka, Japan @ Intex Osaka
April 27th, 2007: Johannesburg, South Africa @ New Market Racecourse (My Coke Fest 2007)
May 1st, 2007: Cape Town, South Africa @ Kenilworth Racecourse (My Coke Fest 2007)





/jarmo

i didn't direct it at any one person.  if you feel you were targeted, maybe you really are a whiny ass bitch. : ok:  but i never called you that.
  :crying:
 

To be honest Danny, you sound paranoid.

Guns N' Roses are a band, this is a fansite and the people that post here are fans. The recent update to the GN'R website doesn't say anything out of the ordinary

Oh, sorry Jim Bob.  I mistakenly thought your lovely "whiny ass bitch" comment was directed at people who are whining.

Now I realize that the comment wasn't actually directed at anyone and didn't have anything to do with the conversation we were having.  Thanks for clearing that up, buddy!   : ok:

That's funny. ?I'm upset because I remember 1996, 1998, 2003, and 2005 too. ?I remember all of those years and not even being able to comprehend that it would be 2007 and there would not be a new GNR album.

you can add me to the list of "non-fans/ 'haters'". plus i was the person thats was tld to "fuck off" BEAT THAT fellow haters. yeah i don't like being lied too. "real fans" would say "when was that?" i would say when axl went around in early 2006 (thats a 6 NOT A 7) saying "this is the year for chinese democracy"

with a quote like this what else am i supposed to think? stupid me I THOUGHT I'D HAVE THE ALBUM. i guess the closest i'll come to Chinese democracy is the next (agian shitty) velvet revolver album. gross.

a person I CAN BELIEVE is trent reznor... i'll be listening to 'year zero' ON APRIL 17th. and if i pre-order it i'll get a 'year zero' lithography. i am going to a "pre-release listening party" (put on BY NIN) this weekend. now thats how you treat fans.

It's weird.  We who are skeptical don't lob insults like "fuck off" "go check your fucking fax machine" or "get the fuck out of here" and we are considered the haters.

ah so you were whining!  then perhaps my comments were directed at you.

find a hobby or something.  seriously, this consumes some of you people to the point where you come here everyday to whine.   thats really fucking sad.

likewise, so is pretending to be a huge chris pitman fanatic and making a site about him in an attempt to be funny.

I understand how it looks that way to you.  And I can imagine how frustrating that must be.

But from my perspective, my whining comes from a genuine desire to see Axl Rose, my childhood hero, succeed at his goals and release great new music.  To me, a lesser "fair weather fan" would have given up on Axl by now. 

I've got lots of friends who were huge, die hard GNR fans back in the day.  But when the original band broke up and Axl humilliated himself at the VMA's in 2001, they gave up.  They just laugh at Axl.  They laugh at the idea that a band of "replacements" can tour year after year, playing music they didn't write.  They've completely given up on GNR and Axl.

I haven't.  Though I don't know Danny and some of the other "whiners" around here, I suspect they feel the same way. 

Axl is a massive talent.  He was a huge inspiration to me as a kid, and I want him to be a part of my adulthood too.  Through all these years of bullshit, I've never given up on my belief that Axl Rose still has something very beautiful left to give the world.  And I'm going to be at the front of the line the day it comes out.

But to succeed again, I sincerely believe that Axl MUST do something about his awful, awful PR.  The fact that Jarmo has to police Axl's own FAN BOARDS should tell you something about how bad his public image is right now.

We could endlessly debate how it got there, but that doesn't matter.  The past is the past.  Axl just has to worry about the future.

So when the band's management makes, what I consider to be, huge mistakes (13 Tuesdays bullshit, Del's insulting articles, touring without the album, touring without the album again, touring without the album for a third time), I bitch about it.  It's very frustrating to see Axl and his managers make the same mistakes.

In the end, we all have the same goal:  to get Axl Rose making music again.

We just have different ideas of how that will happen. 

I personally think that it's pretty fucking cool that these letters from the GNR-crew are coming. It seems that now they have the time to straighten up all the rumors and shit that's been circulating around.

I really don't know what to think of the whiners. I'm also VERY frustrated, but I'll ease off the pain with vodkashots rather than keep barking about how Axl supposedly treats me and others fan bad...

Calm down, it's nowadays almost easy to be a GNR-fan ?: ok:

Maybe Gn'R were supposed to deliver the finished mix of Better during 2006 and failed to do so (just as they failed to deliver the album). No doubt Harley Davison got pissed off by this, used Paradise City, and scrapped the Better idea. The Harley advert looked like it had a ton of money spent on it, and I doubt they wanted to delay there advert going out, as they had probably already spent months deciding when the ad was due to air, and it's not like Harley are going to hang around for a band, even if that band happens to be Gn'R.

Very well said. ?I aggree 100%. ?I don't know how anybody can sensibly argue with this.

"In the end, we all have the same goal:  to get Axl Rose making music again."

er, he's done with making music. It's in the mixing stage already. Keep up!  :hihi:

MotherGooseLuv, all you?ve been doing for the last weeks is to tell us about all this secret info, that ems, or to be more exact, you?ve got from axl personally. why don?t you just tell everyone what you know??  because axl doesn?t want his fans to know it?? because he trusted specifically you??

all right man....  he was having fun at a party and told some stranger from a gnr/pittman website he`s never seen before, why chinese democracy was delayed/whatever and he seriously doesn?t want that info to be publicly known?? you can?t be serious.......

all you?re doing is trying to sound like an insider by continuously mentioning axl telling you his biggest secrets etc during the first time you?ve ever met him...  i mean... well.. he probably told you some stuff. good for you, keep it to yourself and stop bragging about it.



things are really getting out of hand at the moment......

yeah i'd love to be able to tell "a real fan" to "fuck off" then hide behind "i was just joking" and NOT get banned but it will not happen, so i won't. but since i can't see people's faces (since we are on the internet... all i can do is read what you typed) i have to take whats typed.

back to the discussion... why does NOBODY in the g n r camp have a blog and or online diary? thats a good way to communicate with fans. sometimes i think g n r just needs to become more net savvy. look at most/all big bands have this. it could help with all this confusion.

You have an opinion, and that is fine. But that is all it is, an opinion.

If you want to help Axl, just be a fan. There are enough critics around.

There's nothing worse in life than a non driver sitting on the back seat telling the driver how to drive his vehicle.

I agree Mysteron.  With "fans" like these, who needs critics  ::)

So, arent you basically being a backseat driver to us fans?  Aren't you telling us how we are supposed to be fans?

exactly i agree 100% :yes:

I shouldn't be telling you anything

Some stuff that is being posted is irrational and fuelled with paranoia. Some is autistic in nature

It is driving the thread, and that is wrong.

yes they are.

i like my friends to be honest with me and not constently blow me and agree with every thing that that comes out of my mouth. as i've said before, i bet axl wants fans-- NOT clones. what ever happened to "lead singer of BAD ASS take no prisoners G N R"? now they can't take a little constructive critiques. SO LAME.

It's more like complaining about a bothering situation, I would say. There is only one driver in this situation, and it's Axl. If you keep whining about something, of course there is a right to complain about that.

If that is so wrong, then maybe you should just suggest that the thread is closed. 



And by the way, I personally take offence at the "autistic in nature" line being the parent of an autistic child.

Haha!

Nice contradiction.

First you wonder what happened to the BAD ASS band. Then you want them to do whatever you tell them to....



Define "a little".

This isn't about constructive criticism.

Many of the people who are complaining don't even try to understand the other possibilities. They don't want to understand that this is how the band works. No, the band must change to fit your needs.




Poor victim. You're obviously the biggest supporter of the band.

The kind of people we want more of here.

People who'll never be happy and try to bring everybody who dares to remain optimistic down....

Poor poor Danny.

You seem skeptical about everything.

You don't think the album will be out, you think Dizzy lies to us, you don't like the updates.....




We have a bunch of record company people, marketing people, managers, lawyers and whatever other profession there is in the music business, posting here.....  :hihi:


/jarmo

I, for one, can't at all understand how you people (the negative ones) have to try to define being a fan. Us real fans come here to support the band we really like (are fans of) and hang out and read and post, you people come to tell the band what to do and accuse them of lying. Real fans? I don't think so.

We have a bunch of record company people, marketing people, managers, lawyers and whatever other profession there is in the music business, posting here


 The most popular for sometime has been mixer and mastering

You know what then? ?Fuckin' ban me again. ?Christ. ?I try to play nice. ?I try to give an honest opinion either way. ?I admit when I'm wrong. ?I say when somebody on my side says something against you that's wrong and defend you. ?And this is what I get for it. ?More insults. ?Sorry that I'm not angling to be a part of the inner-circle like you are. ?Pathetic.

never said i wanted this band to "fit my needs" i think they should do things they say they are going to. everybody must say... 12+ for an album is absurd.

jarmo since you said "fuck off" i believe i get one "free" insult.

you're a puppet.

and they ruin every goddamn thread in the process.   It doesn't matter what the topic says, it all ends up with how unhappy they are and how big a fuck up Axl is. 

The complainers should find a board that embraces negative whiny "fans" and embraces critics and fans alike.   A board that wants their reunion threads and their open letters to Axl about how he fucks everything up.    I know they exist too.. they aren't hard to find.

Why do you call Jarmo a puppet for defending Axl against your attacks?
And by the way, it's spelled "Guns N' Roses", Mr. Big Fan.

Not sure if anyone is counting but the last 4 pages of this thread have nothing to do with the truth about better....thought you guys might wanna know :confused:

Axl made the (dumb) choice to quit being the "lead singer of a Bad Ass take no prisoners GNR" in the early 1990's. ?That's (the real reason) the original band ended (tell me you wouldn't of quit if you were slash considering all of axl's antics). ?He had it all going for him, but forgot what had got him there in the first place (the original gnr attitude). ?That fucked him over then and it still is fucking him over today. If you consider yourself a fan of what GNR was, then I don't see how this waste of talent and dumbass behavior doesn't even remotely piss you off! ?With all of that said, I hope Axl has/does recapture(d) that original magic and starts to do something worthwhile with it. ?

Like they said in the Behind The Music episode, "Guns N Roses Played Rock N Roll Music To Kick Your Ass!!!"

That changed a long time ago, But Hopefully It's About To Return!!

When did you try to be nice?

You've been constantly whining for the past few days/weeks.

You don't need to defend me, I can take care of the lame insults directed at me myself.




This comes from a guy who made up stories of being an insider with secret info.




It's easy to judge when you don't know all the details.

None of us do, but it doesn't stop some of you from spewing shit....




Sure..... Whatever you say tough guy.  : ok:





Because it's the popular opinion among all the cool objective Internet tough guy fans that if you respect people in the GN'R family, you're a puppet and asskisser.



/jarmo

I think the GNR PR people and the ones running their official site need to do a refreashing course on comunication tecniques in this internet days, they're trying to come across years of "no comment" at all to finding forms of interecting with the fans, general public and the press that feads so much on whats on line.
A a fan i'm very happy for the change in directions, it's not what i really want to know, but it's their official site it's to promote what they want you to know and the rules are marketing ones just as it is on any other product "for sale", but what they do is trowing more logs in the fire. Eveytime someone connected with the band (not the members except for Axl) make public comment's they just bring heat on the band. Or they might think it's preferable to no interaction.
They did nead to adreass the issue of the new leaks, they're being reviewd by radio and press for an unfinished track, this is something an official site should talk about, my only surprise is that it's only done now. But for God's sake don't start the comunication you want to deliver with the thing you don't want people to believe ie that the leaks might of been intentional, mainly if your not giving a proven fact but a view on what might of happened. If you start with well it wasn't us but we think it went like this, fist you invite people to disconsider any information that comes after that ?and second to expand on their own thougts for an explanation on what ?stick's "was the band the origin of the leak?
The point is not what is said but the way is presented.
Think about that before you let all that eager fan frustration go, for things that are not that important for the future of the band or for what really matter The Music. Does this have an interferance on the realise of the album? It's a millions business, no it won't. Does it interfere with the quality of the final product? Not.
It's always a good moment to start Chinese Democracy, and that's why we all end up stiking around ?: ok:

 :o :o!!!!

How many updates in the past few days? I've lost count.
Thank you management you so kind! : ok: : ok:

If I'm in the back seat of a car, the driver's headed over a cliff, I'm gonna let him know.

Especially if the driver is someone I really respect and admire.

Even if that person has been the driver for over 20 years, has a better idea of where he's going than you, knows the car better than you and has been on the same road before?




/jarmo

I'm not getting the whole driving-a-car metaphor.. :-\


Is Axl the driver? I thought Beta or her kid drove him around places.
Also, who's in the car with him?
The whole band can't fit in a small car.
So it's a bus.
A bus heading towards a cliff?


What does this have to do with the truth about "Better"?

Yeah, let's see how long we can keep this bad analogy up.   ;D

But what if in the last 20 years, the driver's eyesight has worsened, and he's not as capable off seeing bumps in the road. 

Or lets say, what if the roads have been changed in the last 20 years since the driver last drove.  And he's trying to drive in the same direction he did all those years ago, but times have changed and he'll have to learn to adapt to the new traffic laws if he hopes to drive without wrecking.

This is fun. 

JARMO'S TURN!

I see how it is frustrating for them, but how can they possibly stop each radio station?
I guess there's no problem with trying..

But there's still co-drivers who aren't sitting in the backseat. People who've been around for years in the driving the bus business. There's also new people present who know the new laws.

In addition to that, the driver has proven that he's not against modern technology so it's not impossible that he uses that to get from A to B.

Still, there's people in the backseat saying they know what's best.


/jarmo

I think that people need to start realizing that there is more to life than bitch about an Album or Song that hasn't been released. Today I had reality thrown right in my face. My mother has been having stomach problems she went in Friday to have some scans done. Today she got the call... "You have a large mass on your liver"... This isn't bitching, but I think people need to realize there is a lot more...

No dude is the whole ?band on AXL ENZO FERRARI,one on top of other doing splenda and listening the enginer noise cuz the ENZO don't have radio on it.

Back on topic we have 2updates,the album is mixing right now so stop to cry like a baby.

WE have to wait thats the true.
If you can't handle to wait,take a ride and come back afeter some time. : ok:

Oh never mind.  You're right.  Those new updates are great.  That's why the fans are so overwhelmingly happy these days. 

At the end of the the day, it's only a rock band.  I've had fun listening to their music for the last twenty years.  I'm sure it can get me through the rest of the wait.

i wish you people would quit this analogy thing and have a real conversation so the rest of us can understand what your saying and not have to understand this fucking analogy.  :(

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hihi: :rofl: :hihi: :rofl:

and there you both are "trying to define being a fan". the only requirement to be a fan is to consider yourself to be 1. its no one's business to tell me if im a fan of anyone/thing, thanks very much! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: >:(

Hey, I'm just happy to have another update on the website.   It's great to get official "clarity" about the leak, and to see so many responses and additions to the site these past few days...really, for me, any (official) news is good news.

:hihi:
There was this page called gnroffline once ;)
This is so true ;D
I was reading an prodigy update and it was about how the keyboard-player had lost his laptop, and i was just like "ok, when's the album coming out" but why whine so much about it :P

What the fuck is this supposed to mean???    ???        :o

Wow.      :nervous:         And I thought that I was a little bit fucked-up.                :confused:

You know what? ?I'm giving in. ?If so many of you guys think that this story is legit 100%, then I'm changing my position. ?It's nice that we're getting updates (althought the timeframe between them is suspicious ?;) ) and I'm glad that the album is either mixing or it is mixed. ?Can't wait to here it...hopefully it will be soon.


Seriously...I really hope it's soon. ?I've been finding grey hairs lately. ?The last time we got a new GNR studio album I wasn't old enough to legally drink.

Like I've  said before... There is no way Axl isn't testing the waters.  He'd be stupid not to.   Hey we've heard a couple different versions of Better, but is there a huge difference from the concert one, to the 1st and 2nd "leaked" (supposedly) versions.  Lets face it, we have a pretty good idea of what "Better" is going to sound like when it comes out officially.  If Axl was against the downloading of the first version of Better, why didn't he scrap the song all together on tour (God knows he must have had other songs to release on tour, instead of Better, after all these years)?

Wow, I bet Dizzy wasn't expecting this when he thought he was handing out "good news"

Its actually done quiet the exact opposite.

Hmm, mabye next time the gnr camp will think before handing out what they consider "important  information" on the website.

I might let them know next time, that all we really want is a single, and the fucking album,


Looks like I better set some revision homework for the gnr camp, so they get it through their heads this time around.! : ok:

And what makes you think you have any right to tell them what to do or how to do it?
They don't owe you shit.

C'mon, lets face it, GN'R don't do a very good job when it comes to PR. Its just not their thing and I don't think Axl is interested in it (other than not letting anyone talk about CD) I can understand his view point although Its extremely frustrating at times. The last three 'updates' have all had a negative tone, nothing to get anyone interested in the band excited (and I'm not referring to 'die hards' here). I mean was it really necessary to reply to Die Mannequin? Most of us don't even know who they are! The 'Truth about Better' could have been an interesting article, they could have put a positive spin on it yet it comes over in completely the wrong way IMO. You know something along the lines of 'we're really dissapointed the song was leaked, but its so cool to hear that an experimental version of this song is doing so well on the radio'

The next leg of the Chinese Democracy (  :hihi: ) is approaching fast. I am really hoping the band will not only officially announce this but also let everyone know what is happening with the album, even if there isn't another date.

the retard who runs the site is talking about the Manequin, but somehow they forgot to MENTION that they have a fucking tour in 4 weeks.
what the fuck is it with them and informations.

best reply on the latest gnr.com update? : ok:

Yes, these updates are much better than GNR telling us not to talk about stuff they don't want talked about.

Did anyone point out the fact that the leak and the part played during the HD commercial are obviously not the same version?

Thanks for the update Guns N' Roses!!  :D




 :beer:

The mix of Better played during the Harely ad sounded like various sections taken from the leak. So I would say it was the same version.

On another note, don't forget: a number of Gn'R tracks leaked (not only Better) and it just so happend that *all the leaks were played during the live shows. So did Harley leak the other leaks too? of course not!
For Gn'R to blame Harley for the leak, then I guess Harely will be repsonding soon  :hihi:


*except Catcher.

They only claimed that the latest version of Better leaked from HD, not the '06 leaks.

"We were doing a commercial with Harley-Davidson. Harley was going to do a version using 'Paradise City' and another version using 'Better.' Their Web site even had a version up for like one day with 'Better,' but the version of 'Better' that they had was an unfinished, unapproved demo. That?s why it was removed. The version that?s getting airplay is that same demo" - Dizzy

I read it as the version that was played on the Harley web site is the same version recieving airplay  :)

It's a little odd that they only expained the most-recent Better leak and none of the others.  However, it's really only strange to us really hardcore fans.  The latest leak easily got more attention than all the others combined.  Including an write-up in Rolling Stone.

?

Dizzy appears to be talking about the version Harley used, and that was the 2006 leak  :peace:

I'm really happy these days. Band is updating us, they are mixing the album right now. But well I'm a fan and a supporter. Dunno about you. If you wait, fine. You don't need to show us all your negative thoughts because it's fucking annoying. If you think that band members are liars, fine, why don't you just shut up? Seriously... coming here and trying to make we believe that they're liars will make you look like a retard. We're in a GN'R forum, we support the band. We don't want to be like the media criticizing everything that Axl does. Everytime I want to come to a GN'R board and read the news what I see here? People complaining about everything and everyone in the band. Again: that is fucking annoying.
That is directed to you, Danny, Jackamo! and a few others.

Actually, I've changed my tune on this subject.  Maybe you should read the whole thread before you "complain about the complainers".

after reading 17 pages of complainers complaining, only on this topic... yeah, you guys already made people a bit angry.  : ok:

love the logic above, i see it all the time on this board, which is basically this: "guns n roses PR was REALLY shitty to the fans before (98-02), now they are just KIND OF shitty" so you all get so excited. these recents 'updates' are a joke, if this band treated its fans better you would all think these recent updates were the joke they certainly are. i know 'the complainers' are not 'real fans' because i would like to be treated as a fan that is respected. but instead we get silence for years and then absurd 'updates.'

now i know some clown will say "if you want to be treated like a fan, act like one." that's a joke. look at what this band has done to its 'fans' in the past 15 years and tell me they have been as loyal as someone like me (who even after all this time checks this site EVERYDAY). tell me i'm not a fan. i could teach guns n roses something about being loyal. get real, get in the ring.

They haven't done anything to you.

I fail to see how they've affected your life in anyway, you choose to come to the site every day.  Has Axl ever held a gun to your head and made you?

I highly doubt it.  Get a grip.

"We do hope you can hold on just a bit longer, and if not, please take a break and we?ll be more than glad -- if you so choose -- to see you again later."

It seems you can't hold on, go ahead, take a break, come back when the album's out.  You're not acting like a fan, you're acting like a spoilt child.

what a great cop out. OF COURSE axl hasn't held a gun to my head. but what he has done is promise a album (at least) three times in '06 alone, about to embark on his third (or fourth if you count 02) CHINESE DEMOCRACY tour (thats fraudulent to say the least), and promised a cd after "minor- and i do mean minor" things (i wouldn't count ACTUAL recording as 'minor'). most fans agree that nobody expected an album on march 6, then tell me how can you worship somebody that HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CREDIBILITY to you? seems strange to me.

people will say, "if you hate the band so much why are you here?" the answer? because i still respect some of the other guys in the band, and i am interested in what they will add to the mix. (finck, fotus, stinson, reed, and pitman)

tell me who ever told you to worship him. absolutely no one.

I think a lot of you are missing the point.
It's not that Axl is forcing anyone to be a fan. He made thousands and thousands of fans with great music. Fans still like Axl because of that music, and because fans are loyal to musicians they admire.
The problem is, 99% of other bands and artists show that same respect back to the fans.
Not the broken promises, dissapointments, chaos, laziness and disorganization that GnR has shown.

I'm not bitter or upset myself, I just can see why so many people are. He's failed to deliver too many times, and really turned a lot of people off.

So what you're saying is, Axl promised an album which would be released once a few minor things were out of the way, and that no-one expected him to meet the tentative deadline that he proposed? Logically meaning that the fact that the deadline has passed without the release is no big deal as it's what we all expected, and now that the minor things are done and a tour is apparently starting to take shape all Axl needs to do is release the album to have kept his word? GREAT! Wait, what were you complaining about again?

thanks, somebody with a brain. i mean if you look above i say nothing about him being worshipped by me, i was just commenting on how many people on this board overestimate axl (call him a god, ect).

how many? ??? as far as I know it has happened only once that is the 2006 one.

Like who? who is calling him a god?

Didn't you get the memo? Turns out that anyone who isn't mortally wounded by a total stranger not fulfilling his half-hinted-at "promises" is clearly a total Axl Cultist, blindly devoted to their demonic master. It was proven, there was math.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=8291

try that thats just one... most around here would defend axl like he was there mother, like you guys are doing now. thats what i'm saying i don't understand... an artist that doesn't care about his fans, yet relies on them to live day to day (financially)-- for 15 years.

You're right! That is just one.
And you're clearly not mistaken, we must be defending Axl Rose because we disagree with you. I mean, that's the only possible explanation, right?

Great example! A guy who used the board for only 5 days back in May 2006!!! With 9 posts!! Man, that only could mean that everybody thinks Axl is god!!!! ::)

To my understanding he cares. yet he doesn't need to rely on you financially.
Most people buy cds for the joy the music provides.

@ 25 I'm a little confused. Now a god is a demonic master and axl is a mother? He looks a human male to me???

It makes as much sense as the rest of the argument, I'd say.
Axl is actually a leprechaun. Not a lot of people know that.

What a bunch of bullshit from you again.

He doesn't care? He could've put out multiple new albums with shitty songs only to take your money. I guess then you could've said "he cares AND relies on me financially".  ::)



Did you ever notice that at fast food places you get the food almost instantly, but at finer restaurants you have to wait for them to prepare the food for you? The burger makes your hunger go away, but often it doesn't taste that good and you won't remember the meal a year later.

That's how you want your music. To be like fast food. Junk. You want it straight away so you feel happy for a while, then whine about how there should be more. Repeat, repeat.....


While we're on the subject of you, and people like you. I think you're in the minority. A lot of fans don't take everything so personally like you do. The whiners like to post though and it often seems like they're the majority.

Many of these so called "realists" will never be happy because they'll always keep looking for faults. Instead of going to a show and think "this is great!" and be happy with that, they'll say "this is great but they should've....".

Now they're complaining about the updates, because first they didn't get any updates and when we did, it wasn't good enough. So once the album is out, the old "there's no album" won't work. I wonder what'll happen? Probably "it wasn't worth the wait", "this song sucks", "it's not good enough", "it's too long", "the mix sucks", "there's not enough swearing", "the packaging is stupid"...


Because I'm one of those people who can be happy with what we get, because I understand the whole concept of artistic freedom and don't think artists owe me anything, I get labeled all kinds of things. The funny thing is that I didn't become a fan of GN'R, because I wanted them to be something else, I became a fan of what they are/were and create.

Constructive criticism is one thing, but all these whiny posts with nothing more than whining because Axl "owes" you, is boring and pointless.


The fact that some of you constantly assume you're being lied to by the band while believing almost any rumor and bullshit article is sad. Yet you demand Axl and the band should give you more respect. They should respect people who are calling them all liars on a daily basis?




/jarmo

you guys need to come to the jungle and talk about more important stuff for a while ... like gucci sunglasses.

CD will come, when it comes. and it's gonna be goooood ;)

it's hard being a fan, when there's nothing to be a fan of. I'm here for the music, not because I like Axl's braids, Fincks beard, BBF's guitar....
I'd like to have some music of the band I can be a fan of. so far I've seen them live and that's it. not enough to go on for years.

only thing that keeps me on is the faith they can pull it off, and make great music.




yeah, but there's a lot of people(witch hunters) who take every constructive critic as an insult to the band.

like who?

Seemingly there're some witch hunters who take every positive fan as a total Axl Cultist, blindly devoted to their demonic master....

going to guns shows makes me want to hear the new album even more. Who here would honestly just be happy going to a guns n roses show a couple of times every 5 years without them ever releasing an album? If you realy dont mind that then honestly i kind of feel sory for you. I personaly would like to get some results for the band I constantly defend......give me some backup...Axl throw me a frikin bone dude!

Could not have been said better.
The complainers can settle for VR and Good Charlotte if they want rushed, boring music.

Jarmo's post is spot on. However, you don't need to bring any other band in to the equation. No reason to cut down VR or Good Charlotte. If you choose to wait 13 years for a record, that is your choice. Some people don't like to be bothered that long. Nobody is right. Jarmo is just talking about people who incessantly complain. It gets old and quite frankly, looks very immature on the part of the person who continually says the same thing over and over and over- spamming thread after thread. It ruins the board. For fuck's sake, if there is nothing to talk about, go do something else. : ok:

I believe (or hope) that the silent majority here respect Axl for having pride in his work and not releasing any material unless it holds to his highest standards.  I worry, however, when so much negativity dominates this board.  I get these nightmares that Axl will invoke some type of Seinfeld/Soup Nazi clause that will entitle him to limit distribution of CD to only those who truly appreciate how much he's suffered over this album.  I wake up in a cold sweat after hearing 'NO CD FOR YOU!!'    :nervous:

Maybe you should leave then.  :P

Obviously this band isn't for you.......  :P


With that being said, I'm also a fan of the "We don't give a fuck" attitude that GN'R has always had.

Now it seems like many of you would rather have a GN'R who has a "how may we serve you today?" attitude.....





/jarmo

aint it a little bit pretentious to be telling people if they should or should not be the fans?
and if we're all "anti-leaks", how's a normal guy supposed to know what the band is all about? why is a normal dude supposed to be a fan of? Or are we supposed to be fans on faith?
and even if we are the fans of the band, who are we fans really of?, when it's hard even to keep track who's really in the band.
untill the C D is out, it's virtually impossible being a fan of anything except Axl.
every guy that turned into a BH fan in 2002... got basked by 2004... better not risk liking anyone anymore.

and what's with your arrogance. you and I know that after that I said;"only thing that keeps me on is the faith they can pull it off, and make great music."

you dude are really on a ego trip. this is getting futile. every time someone goes into a discussion you chose to take something out of the context and make a smartass comment about it and letting the hordes of your little all-agreeing gnomes tear those people a new asshole... and label them as haters.

Sometimes, a guy feels like Joseph K in Kafka's process here. I have no idea what I did sometimes to piss off the gods, but here I am entangled in neverending process, and I have no idea what the bloody rules are, especially since my every 5th post gets deleted for no reason or explanation. I guess sometimes I'm blamed only for saying the obvious truth. but people around would rather agree to say that "king is NOT naked" after all.


yeah... the band is a great if you want a role model...
but not if you're here for the music.
I'm not a groupie or any other sort of a fanboy wanker.
I accidentally got tied into this waiting game because in 2000 I was hoping I'd hear some good music, and I'm gonna stick it out till the bitter end, maybe to spite people, or at least so the years I've been around so far dont go to waste.

yeah,... they are really "We don't give a fuck"... the latest Gnr.com updates say diferently... infact it suggests that they do give a fuck... especially about the lame details such as the manequin.



well, merck was an improvement :D
but I never asked for a "bend over band"...
they can keep their mouth shut for all I care... and in retrospective, I hope they didnt talk sometimes.
like numerous, "soon" over the 7 years I've been here.


I'm one of the few people that have been on the forums ever since gnronline, and I wont take some bullshit comments by 13 year old kids calling me a fucking hater, same goes for you.

But - ALL relationships: Business or personal require mutual respect to work.  GNR has never had a good relationship with its fans - result: negativity amongst the fans.

Ok - I understand there will always be the negative people.  And those I would say deserve to be ignored.  But Ive seen fans here who I would of NEVER thought could ever change their feelings towards Axl and GNR - but they have.  That just says that Axl and GNR are really pushing it.

Jarmo you have a great site,and some good points.But lets be real for a bit.Yes we have been lied too,quite often.Ill still continue to support the band and your site.Feel free to throwm me off if thats what you must do.But im a man that belives in truth.

Ung.  I'm really getting sick of being lumped in with other "complainers".  I wasn't happy with the last "updates"...but I changed my mind about.  But even then, I was still considered "just one of the complainers" who complains about the shows and the setlists, which I never have since I always liked them quite a bit.  The black/white attitude from EVERYONE around here is annoying.

I work two jobs to support my family,but still find time to come here every day .We have spent tons of money on this man that we all love.We put him in that mansion on the hill,and he cant even give us any news.Where do you think w axl rose would be with out us.Chances are {dead}I dont care if you kick me off for being honest.

nope.. we are quite unimportant, since average fan here is 18-25, and most of us had nothing to do with the success of the appetite.
the people who made GNR big are about 30-40 now, and dont spend time on forums.

I wish that were true but its not.  His talent put him up on that hill.  Yeah - maybe a little of fan loyalty but mostly his talent.

Don't flatter yourself.
I've been on GN'R boards since the gnronline days too, then 2TI, then HTGTH, I just don't see the need to brag about it.
You are truly a sad person. Just give it up if it's too much for you here. Like Jarmo said, leave, this band obviously isn't for you if all you want to do is moan and complain.

I aint bragging about it, it's a sad thing, ever since than I still have to deal with the likes of you.


edit, and after reading your last posts that are actually in the GNR section, no wonder you dont brag about it... you're to bussy licking jarmo's ass...and posting in the jungle, since only 10 posts you made so far are in GNR section, and 3 of those, you were asking for me getting banned. : ok:

That's how I feel whenever someone says, "Hey, they're touring, what more can you ask for?" Well, I can ask for the album, that's what.

On a side note, I have not been able to dedicate any serious time to HTGTH in the past few weeks because of work, and when I come back, there's nothing new going on with the band besides baseless rumors. Isn't that worrisome? I was hoping for something before the tour, but I'm doubting that now.

I'm so sick of all you so-called "fans" who demand the album to come out, who demand updates, who can't even appreciate a Guns N' Roses tour because the album isn't out yet. Fuck all you people, who are you to tell Axl what to do? I'm so sick of the negativity, some of you people will never be happy, even when CD is out you will find something to complain about. "Why doesn't CD sell more? We waited all these years for this, where are all the AFD style rockers?" - God, you people make me sick. You can't demand shit from Axl. We should be grateful he is doing his very best to make the best damn GN'R record possible, he doesn't have to do it, but he does. But I guess that isn't enough. I know someone will probably reply to this with "I've waited for a decade for this thing, Axl has fucked us over in the past, without us he wouldn't have a profession!" - Well guess what, without him you wouldn't have some of the best rock music ever made so shut the fuck up with the moaning.

who are you to say who's a fan, and who's not?!
dont flatter your self... Axl doesnt need you to defend him... he has enough real advocates already, and if they need a but kiss, you'll be the first one they'll call.

Yeah but if it wasnt for the 40 yr old fans buying the shit out of the product,you youngsters wouldnt be here.And buy the way i spent over a thosand bucks on 3 shows this year.Im complaining.FUCK YES I AM

Man save it. Who cares if your 30 or 40? Who cares if you've been around since gnronline?

You sure don't sound 30. Don't come off as mature at all.

that's because I'm 22.

What is this, kindergarten? Do you really have to repeat what I told you and turn it around to be able to make your point?
I know Axl doesn't need me to defend him, but guess what? This is a fan board, we are here to talk about our favorite band and I'm gonna speak my mind about how I feel, like it or not. Just because I'm not some self-righteous fuck who can't do enough with his own life and thus feeling bitter that Axl doesn't give him what he wants when he wants it doesn't make me an ass kisser. Get the fuck over yourself.

Hello panties, meet wad.

You're right, this is a fan board, and people are here to talk about their favorite band. Positive and negative. Blindly following without seeing both sides is for cults, not rock bands.

@EDI
ok, mr Witch hunter... go... hunt those haters! it's your sacred duty....
with the power of stupidity, you shall prevail.

You must have completely missed my point. What I'm saying is if you can't handle the waiting without feeling all butthurt, why stick around? Do yourself a favor and take a break, even Axl said that. And yeah, now that I quoted Axl I guess I'm even more of an asskisser, right? Well, too bad I feel confident enough of myself to not strive to look cool and "objective" on a message board then, if I support Axl Rose I'm damn well gonna say so.

I can handle the waiting, been doing it for quite some time. That doesn't mean that I don't see how the inactivity and hollow proclamations has hurt my favorite band's reputation and has also hurt some fans in the process.

I'm not even gonna bother debating at this level.
So for supporting Axl I'm an asskisser, right?
You're so cool and objective. I bet you're one of those people who panics if you get too close to another man, scared to death that you will have homosexual feelings. It's pretty much the same thing as being scared of being labeled a "fanboy" and "asskisser" if you show your full support of what Axl is doing.

Not really. Humorous, maybe.....




Ego trip? Sure.....

How well you know me.....


Just because I can't relate to your way of thinking.







Who said anything about a role model?

It's about the music.

It's about doing what you feel like doing instead of doing what you're always supposed to.

Did you know the Stones used to start shows at like 4AM (in the morning!)? That's rock n' roll.  :hihi:





Wrong. That attitude applies to the music and always has for GN'R.

What do you think made them different from all the other bands around in the late 1980s?

Was it because they did the same shit everybody else did?

Look it up.




Nice example.

I was talking about doing what you want regarding the music.

Obviously, if you want to discuss the fuck you attitude, it's at work on GNR.com too.

They probably knew you'd find it "lame" and posted it anyway.

It wasn't aimed at you. It wasn't aimed at people who find faults in almost everything the band does....


Not everything GN'R does is aimed at you or me. Maybe if you understood that, you wouldn't be so frustrated?









Good for you, but you need to wake up.

We're not gonna let some bitter frustrated fans, who think that just because they've been around for a while they're more right about everything than other fans (who remain positive/supportive), ruin everything.





No, there are fans who can understand that not everything is black or white. People who, after a discussion, might say "I didn't think about that....".



It's not just about posting updates and some fans refuse to see that.

The problem isn't the updates themselves, the problem is that people aren't honest.

Whining about getting no updates, then we get a few and these same people are still whining. Why? Because they thought an update equals a release date.


They can't even grasp the whole concept of how an album is made and released. It seems like once it's recorded, the album magically appears in the stores and if it doesn't, it's 100% the band's fault.

Not only that, but these people have apparently paid Axl in cash for an album and he owes them it.....  ::)






/jarmo

you are obsessed. put a pause on "out to get me".... go outside. pat the fluffy bunny... relax.
and stop with the self righteous crap. not everybody here is a hater.
there are Axl supporters, and there are Blinded Idiots - you are not an Axl supporter.


nope... not humorous.



as much as you know me... and still you tell me how this band isn't for me. I guess it wasnt for merck as well?



how do you know? have you heard the new album? we dont know if the music will be that way. for all we know the prostitute could be a codename for an aguilera cover.


there's a forum section where we talk about old band members. I'm talking about the new band-still no music to back up the attitude.



well you can excuse everything by saying GNR has a "Fuck you" attitude.
even if CD came out and sucked, youd still say... ITS GREAT! It's Rock! Gnr made a crap album and they "dont give a fuck"!





nope, but as one of the few remaining people from that era that still stayed supportive (yes I support them),and one would think I'd have a right for a constructive critique once in a while without all the newbie retards calling me a hater. we'd see their posts in 5 years

Most of my posts are based on critique because I dont see a point in agreeing with everything 600 people said before me. am I supposed to make 100 asskising posts only to make one criticizing... I just dont have the time to make "this rocks" posts every time the band does something good.

I assume your intention with this last comment was to cause some sort of hurt, but the day I let some internet nobody who's nothing but text to me affect me in any sort of way will be the day that Hell freezes over. It's pretty funny that you call me self-righteous, I only see you who's moaning about how you've been online since 2000 and Axl still haven't given you your album! Cry me a river. I noticed how you moaned that "legions of Jarmo asskissers" (or something similar and equally retarded) attack you every time you speak your opinion. Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and realize that any normal fan doesn't have these problems, only you ungrateful, demanding, bitter people feel this way about things. Sad, isn't it? Go find something else to spend your time on, you're an embarrasment to the GN'R community. And don't bother trying to turn that comment around on me, saying how we "asskissers" are an embarrasment. Are you really that insecure?

You sure do spend a lot of time on an "internet nobody who's nothing but text." You only fuel the debate by carrying on with it.

And here I was thinking that debating was the point...

I spend "a lot" of time on it? It takes me 30 seconds to post.
By the way, that's another funny thing about insecure message board people, they love pointing out how other people spend "a lot of time" online and thus have "no life", and labeling people who are here to support the band "asskissers". You people's insecurities are laughable, don't you realize that any normal person can spend some time hanging out online on a quiet night instead of glaring at the TV all the time?

If debating is the point, what's this^ all about? And if you're so sick of the whiners and complainers, why give them the platform by furthering their cause by calling them out.

You talk in circles, dude. You try to call me an insecure message board person, yet I'm hardly ever here. You're the one who is totally acting the part. I find your ilk to be more bothersome than the complainers. Good night.

Learn how to comprehend, I said I wasn't about to debate on the level he was going to with the "witch hunter" bullshit.
Have a good one.

Wow and holy fuck too!!!   :o


Ya' know, if Axl actually ever does read some of the posts on this board he must just fucking shake his head in disgust.   :yes:


Either that or, he laughs his fucking ass off at all of us for wasting our fucking time on "THE BIG FUCKING GARBAGE CAN."

 :-*

I met Dizzy Reed, out back of Hammerstein (or Hammerstien) after their first show.   He's a happenin' guy. 

what I think is funny is that the moderators erase shit half as "off the topic" as what's been on the past few pages.

take it easy. :-\
there's obviously no point in talking to this guy. he has some sort of messiah complex and imagines every post around here is directed at him personally, and all we ever do is think how to insult Axl, the band and his intelligence.

I read his previous posts... ever since he registered, he missed making a single post about the actual band, music- whatever.
all his posts are in the jungle... and the ones that are not there are the "you are a hater" crap.   :confused:

it's like Scott Weiland hired him to join this board, install him self as the leader of "Axl supporters" and make them look like idiots. :hihi:

yah I think your all crazy cause you don't think it takes 13 to make an album....I mean common I don't want a friggin big mac or fillet o' fish I want a really really good album and everyone knows it takes about 13 or 14 years to make one of those. Just ask all the other great artists like Bono or Eddie Vedder ...oh wait they put out killer albums all the time ....how the hell do they do it??

anyway I know one day I'll get it and it'll be worth every day of waiting, but it still doesn't make this whole process of the last 13 years any less ridiculous

BOOOOOOOOORING.

What does this have to do with the discussion? A personal attack, that's sad, looks like I'm getting to you, huh? And digging through my posts to try to find something on me... Wow... :-\

Edit: Not that I need to defend myself at all, but I feel people have a right to know that you are lying. Did you happen to miss my posts in Bad Obsession, in Dead Horse, in the CITR thread, just to touch on a few? Feel free to post the quotes up. You're an embarrasment to Guns N' Roses, a liar and a hater.

rushed?!!!??  i could see him wanting 2 or 3 years to make an album, heck i'll give him 5. but come on 12 plus? thats a joke... i like the argument that its taking so long "because it will be soooooo good" yeah because working on something along time will make it better... wait NO IT WON'T.

and what is forgot in that argument is you are assuming that axl was busy that whole time (he clearly wasn't).

i also like how if you don't want to wait while axl continues polishing his turd (from jarmos expensive meal) you have to settle for good charlotte and VR! how about i buy the next great NIN record that comes out next month, then the one that is slated for 2008, and the DVD that came out last month. you don't have to "settle" you just have to buy artists that produce something. an artist is not born out of promise its born out of results. plus, this board his full of clowns that bought VR (perhaps you and definately jarmo) ... i didn't always thought they where crap so i'm not sure who that was directed at.

 Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax.  Arguing about this crap isn't going to get you anywhere. Chill  :smoking:

fink_owns_slash, I'm happy to say I didn't buy Contraband, I listened to it on MTV leak for free and then never got near any of the songs again, so thankfully I could spend those money on something more interesting, like food :beer:

It's already "great" even though you didn't even buy it yet?

Wow, talk about having an open mind.  :hihi:



Sure, I'll probably like that album too, but as with many other artists, even your favorite ones sometimes rush out albums.





/jarmo

fortunately, guns n`roses never rush out albums :hihi:

I don't know, I think some rushing would be in place at this point ;)

fink_owns_slash - i pretty much entirely agree.

I think we can safely say that CD was not rushed.  I can also safely say that no critic will say that this album seems a bit rushed.  Axl has never been one to rush anything.  Whether it be doing a concert or putting out an album.   He definetly thinks things through.

Yeah.  Someone needs to take Axl aside and tell him to slow down with this project.

I hope they announce that the album is on hiatus, citing exhaustion. April 1st isn't getting any further away.

Slow and steady wins the race. :yes:


any plans for the skogsal's D this year, jarmo? ;D

Hey, how about "the truth about better'

It's in the first post of the thread.

what a tool you are, i've can guess better then with g n r becuase trent (himself) has leaked three FINISHED songs. THREE FINISHED songs it has taken axl  12 plus for one finished released song. (that he tried to make song like trents) jarmo you do the math.