Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Hey my name is Matt . im in my 3rd year at Dalhousie university in Halifax, Nova Scotia (went to the nov 20th gnr show) and I am in a course here "the history of rock n roll". Our term paper is supposed to be "_________ is one of the greatest songs of all time because _____" so we get to pick the song / band and then we have to argue for them. I choose GNR obviously, im a gnr freak as most of you probably are. I decided on Welcome to the Jungle because i think its an anthem for L.A in the 80's. I had to be careful because my professor grew up in Hollywood and was 20 in 1985, he saw gnr when they jsut started so this is a guy who knows his shit. Anyways, here is my paper. Please let me know what you think, and any suggestions, its not due till april 4th. Remember that i have guidelines to write on, so if something doesnt seem to fit to you, point it out, but dont freak out because i might have put it in there just to meet the essays requirements. I hope you enjoy and i encourage all comments  :beer:


It wouldn't let me post the entire essay due to length issues, so here is a link to the essay:

http://pic1.piczo.com/daubs/?g=27716703

No offense, but if that's your term paper? There's a lot of stuff you should fix - basic grammatical errors, for example. Also, watch your repetition. You used the word "dominated" twice in the first two sentences. And never refer to yourself when writing an essay (e.g. "I am of course referring to Guns N' Roses..."). Professors will take points off.

I'm an English major, so I'm just trying to help you, not be a prick. I'm hoping that's what you were looking for?

Good luck.

its 4am and i just wrote it in the last hour. it has not been proof read by anybody, myself included. i put it together and put it on the site. it isn't due for a month so there is a lot of reworking to go. also the whole not referring to yourself in a paper thing is fucking bullshit! i hate it, it does not take away from your paper at all. i wouldn't do it for any other paper but this specific professor told us:

"feel free to refer to yourself in the first person in your paper because the whole idea that you aren't allowed to is complete crap and has no foundation" and then he got a standing ovation from the students, true story.


anyways thanks for your insight, the grammatical stuff i can fix myself, thats not the input i'm looking for, i'm more interested in the message of the paper. and the ideas, not the syntax. but thanks for reading! 

Fine, if you're looking for a response to the message of the essay, then I suppose it's fine. I just thought you wanted feedback in general to improve your essay.


Is Robin Williams your professor?  ???

There's a reason for the self-reference rule. It DOES have foundation. If your professor is ignorant of this, I'd suggest not enrolling in his class next semester.

i personally dont believe in it. What difference does it make. I'm a history major. So alot of my papers turn into positional pieces. then it is hard sometimes to remove 'i' from the essay. Also, this guy is a music professor, and im a history major. clearly you as a english major are going to have a different view of it. I respect your opinion.

also i should say, this class is painfully informal. people sit there and literally talk about how they cant believe its a class. right now i have a A+ average. so im not killing myself to make this an academic article. this is a bird course so i can focus on my legit classes. So im really not worried about its scholarly merits at the moment. I posted it to this board to discuss the content of its message, not the structure.

That's cool dude.

In terms of its content, I would maybe stress a bit more how it's really a criticism against LA rather than a tribute to it. Axl was trying to expose the filth he saw around himself, rather than glorify it. That's also what helped separate GN'R from glam metal bands like Motley Crue. Compare "Girls Girls Girls" to "Rocket Queen."

thats what im looking for, i like it.

Dalhousie is a crappy school, go to a better school like Acadia.

I agree with Russian Roulette on the context but was very ingrossed reading your essay.  I was into GNR in their early days and your essay re-captured it.  Well Done.

erm... let me get this straight... at Universities in the US you write essays on why a particular rock band is the best in the world.....? ::)

As far as the content, I dont really agree with the remarks about how illusions is how it is because the band became wealthy and no longer represented the voice of the 'streets' or whatever. Illusions has those raw, dirty riffs accompanied with immature angry lyrics, like appetite, the band just purposefully tried to outdo appetite and that meant a double album with many styles n tastes. Many of the tunes predated appetite infact so its not like they changed direction.. they just beefed the sound up with keyboards n stuff on many songs.

AND....

Ive never ever thought of GnR as influencial. They marked the end of the cock rock era, al be their music more sophisticated than the likes of Motley and Poison! But who exactly did GnR influence considering grudge came along with britt pop in the UK and marked the end of gnr who were very 80s in style.

The only band from the UK that came after GnR that Ive heard openly site gnr as an influence were the manic street preachers, and possibly the ex drummer of the stereophonics lol. Apart from them the UK music scene has been built on the likes of the beatles obviously then bands like the stones,? stone roses, oasis, n all that stuff.

GnR aint influencial in that sense if you ask me.

ahahah
come on!
HISTORY  !

who wants to hear about Kant, Epicure, Medieval themes and renaissance, it's so old ...

:)

Hmm... well if its meant to be a serious essay for a university course then its wayy too informal. And perhaps the author needs to try and back the argument up with maybe record sales... awards... quotes from other established bands and musicians?

i didn`t read the whole essay, but this occured to me:


wasn`t it a black guy in new york, who said this to him?

I cant remember, check on you tube.

Axl: I slept one night in a schoolyard in Queens with a big fence around it. This black guy came up to me and said, 'You know where you are? You are in the jungle! You gonna die! 'So we put it in [the] song.

found that here:  http://www.gnrsource.com/songinfo/afd/wttj.htm

that site has info on all of the albums and all of the songs, could be a good reference for your paper

As for you essay, definatly needs some revision and overall cohesiveness, but i think the message is great.  i'm not in school anymore so i dont really want to give you any suggestions, b/c i was never really good with papers anyway.

good luck

 

I believe gangs_n_robbers is from canada buddy:

  As far as I know, that is the US's neighbor to the north. 

btw, Queens would be New York

Have you thought about using quotes and footnotes?

wholy shit your right about the jungle being in queens. i never really thought, he said it at the ritz in new york, "a few years ago my friend and i hitch hiked HERE" your right thnaks for the heads up..


and again, 1.this essay hasent been proofread, revised or anything, this is a copy i wrote in like 1/2 an hour. i just spit it all out. i will go back later and make it not terrible. i wanted to hear what you thought of the overall message.

and the class this is for is extremely informal. last essay i wrote 20 minutes before it was due and i got a A-. the class is a joke. so im not relaly worried about writing a scholary masterpiece. its going to be a informal essay, ie. no qoutes, no sources.

thanks for the comments on illusions. keep em coming.

i considered record sales and awards, but i dedicded not to put them in just because its not so much about the success of the song, or the album, i was more concerned about the legacy. i liked the section on sports and hockey. to me that is the true legacy of the song. if your going into overtime they play welcome to the jungle and everybody gets pumped up and ready to go.

gnr might not be influential... i just assumed they are. they must have influenced somebody/ come on they are gnr, its a given. they might not have influenced nirvana or grunge but its not fair to say they didnt influence anybody.

thanks for that link i didnt even know about that, thats awesome.

Thats still how i see it. its ironic i know because alot of the bigger songs from the illusions were from the appetite era. so you would assume they are just as legit. but i find the illusions songs lack the raw street cred that appetite had. the illusions are amazing albums but i dont think you can parallel illusions and appetite. shotgun blues isnt welcome to the jungle. To me its like apples and oranges. they are both great, but just not the same.

You should mention that Jungle was the first song they used on Noriega.

good point. thats a sweet story too haha.

erm...let me get this straight... at Universities in the UK they don't teach you that Nova Scotia is a part of Canada, and not the US... ::)

Anyway, regarding the value of this course and assignment, I'd say they're just fine.  Rock n' roll has played a huge part in social movements, both by driving social/political beliefs and by reacting to others.  It plays an important role, and is worth studying in that context.  The value of the assignment is obvious to me.  If forces students to make a strong argument and to provide evidence for their positions.  Just because the subject matter is rock n' roll, rather than, say, French colonialism, doesn't mean it's invalid as a means to teach students to better their communication skills.   

Anyway, regarding the actual essay, here are a few pointers:

1.) You try to introduce too much in your introduction, talking about the GNR image, their musical roots, and their historical context.

2.) Your intro also makes it seem as though your paper is about GNR, and not WTTJ.  And, in truth, your paper focuses on GNR a lot, at the expense of WTTJ.  Obviously, you can't divorce the two, but you focus on the history of GNR a lot, when that isn't really what the assignment asks of you.

3.) So, focus more on WTTJ, and then tie it in with the following:
---a combination of blues rock, punk, and metal sensibilities
---ABOUT the rock n' roll life, so a reflection of reality
---historical context of WTTJ changing the direction of rock from pseudo-glam to something more aggressive and raw
---any other changes, in music or otherwise, that can be tied in to WTTJ

4.) The song conveys an attitude, and it's easily exemplified.  You mention it being played at sporting events, but be more specific.  From 2002-2003, LA Dodgers closer Eric Gagne took over the MLB consecutive saves record with 63.  He was DOMINANT.  And he always came onto the field (in home games) to WTTJ.  And the other team's players knew they were about to lose. 

5.) I would recommend pulling yourself back from the writing a little.  You're obviously enthused about GNR and WTTJ...so much so, in fact, that you jump from one familiar GNR image to another...but readers might not be familiar with the imagery.  So, be specific, use examples, and give details. 

I wrote a essay last year about comparing GNR with Nirvana and how GNR was better. I get an A lol

Well, you had a strong thesis!

^ Excellent advice.

To the OP: I would take all this to heart. Very good stuff, freedom.

Thanks.  I'm currently teaching an international relations course that meets an advanced composition requirement, so I'm very used to looking at what's written and assessing how well it meets the assigned criteria (hell, I'm grading at this very moment...or at least I will be when I finish typing!).

Wow if you werent so eager to slag the US, like so many around here do, you'd know where Nova Scotia
is...  :rofl:

Canada's Ocean Playground : ok:

I live close to the infamous "Tar Ponds" :(


Nothing I can say about the WTTJ essay, it's good, not as good as a Silkworms essay I read a while back, but good.

in regards to 1 and 2 the assignment is to write about a band and one of their songs. it isnt supposed to focus completely on the song. i know i titled the subject 'my welcome to the jungle essay' so thats my fault but really its 'my guns n' roses / welcome to the jungle' essay. We are supposed to argue for the band in general, then focus on a specific song. Also i think the context is pretty useful. I really don't say why the band in general is important. i might go over that again. I was thinking that the context is a big part of the song, like who the band was at that point. if Cinderella sang welcome to the jungle it would not be the same song at all (note, i know nothing about Cinderella, i am assuming they suck though because they named themselves Cinderella).

4) I didnt know Gagne used it, good suggestion. ill put that in.

5) yeah thats always the hardest part when you write an essay on something your passionate about. it goes from being an objective view to a fan letter. I was aiming for a semi personal view on this one because the class is very informal (we were encouraged to use the first person in the paper) and really its in the spirit of the assignment and the class. we are supposed to argue for the artist, its alright to have some passion in there.


When you say i jump from one gnr image to the other are you taking about going from the appetite days to the illusions?

i added some context for the illusions stuff. that was a good point.