Here Today... Gone To Hell!

No matter what 2006 DVD I am looking, my conclusion is that, besides Axl, the most protagonist band member, the one that everyone looks to, is Robin. I always wondered about this, and sometimes I ask myself if that protagonism is something ''natural'', inherent to Robin charisma, or is it something promoted and planned by Axl.

What do you think? I think we all can see that Robin is THE gnr guitarist onstage, even when he is clearly the less technically gifted of the three.

Also, it's strange that Robin didnt have this enormous protagonism back in 2001/2002. Its obvious that his new look helped, but I think that there are more reasons regarding the abrupt change we now see.

My questions to you all are:

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?
3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?
4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?

I hope you understand my rustic english  ;D

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?

Yes, no doubt. He gets most of the flashy parts, and also looks the most rock n' roll.

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?

I think it's coincidental.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?

He was eclipsed by looking like a freak.

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?

I wouldn't go that far. This isn't Star Wars.

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
yes.

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?
it's not something promoted by axl. i think robin impresses more on stage by his stature and the way he moves on stage. when i saw them last year i was really amazed when he was in front of me.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?
i kinda liked robin more than buckethead in those years but for the most people maybe buckethead's image made people pay more attention to him?

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?
my favorite is richard, but i can't rank them

I agree that someone learned the word protagonism today and decided to go to town with it! ?Just kidding buddy.

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
Yes, by far. ?Robin is the man on the axe.....he's gotta have that secondary flare to focus attention from Axl.

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?
Both....I think he changed his appearance to tailor to the crowd more, but he definitely upped his playing in the past tour. ?I was very impressed with his renditions of the songs this time around.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?
Very much...as far as attention goes, Mr. Bucket was getting most of it, be it bad or good. ?He was either being hailed as a freak or a genius or both by reviewers and fans alike. ?Playing wise, I think Bucket stole the show live with his fierceness.

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?
1. Robin, 2. Richard. 3. Bumblefoot

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?

yeah

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?

both: Robin attitude is natural, Axl understand his potential.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?

no. the fact was that the whole band situation was different

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?

can't rank them

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
easily.  he's the first thing you see and hear at the beginning of the show.   he gets the most spotlight and the most leads.   he has the best presence on stage, and imo his stage presence is about equal with Axl Rose.

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?
to a point, I would say its a little bit of both.   He naturally stands out, and he's been there longer than the other guys.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?
Back then Robin still played more leads than Buckethead, but I suppose Buckethead's spectacle image may have detracted from him a bit.   I think more than anything, in 2002 Finck was still in 'NIN' mode and he has since broken free of that.   Plus that tour is where the chemistry was built between these band members.

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?
Robin, and I'd put the other 2 guys pretty equal, just a hair below him.

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
yes

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?
Its natural. Robin's charisma shows through his performances.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?

Bucket was so strange all eyes fixed on him. Now, things are different. Robin no longer needs to look Goth ( notice when Bucket left, Goth Robin was no more? Robin has better command of the stage on the guitar.

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?

Robin, Richard, B-Foot. ( Ron is so humble I dont think he even cares about who is the most charismatic. He just wants to play & blow the audiences minds,which he does)

you don't seem to be entirely clear on how to properly use the word protagonist. and you certainly don't understand what the word protagonism means. but yeah, robin's pretty cool for a rock and roll pirate jesus

yes, maybe you're right. My mother language is not english, I just did my best translating the word I'd use in spanish (''protagonismo'') into english.

Anyway, until now, all the posters in this thread have understood my questions and my point perfectly.

*cough* Fortus *cough*

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
No, its Fortus. Hes got the best stage presence after Axl

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?
dident agree...

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?
Im sure Buckethead got alot of attention, but I think Richard was the one with best stage presence back then to

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?
Richard, Robin, Ron

You cannot use the word "protagonist" in the manner you are using it. "Most protagonist" is like saying "most antagonist". Grammatically incorrect.

That said, Robin OWNS. He had HUGE shoes to fill, and rather than immitate, he was himself and I am willing to bet his will be the standouts on CD. Richard is the shit. Thal is awesome. But Robin, Tommy, Dizzy and Ax are the core.

Can't wait.

agreed.When I saw him in saint john..he looked like he didnt give a fuck if he was there..richard and ron looked they were havin an awesome time and they showed more charisma than robin" im better than all of you" Finck

quite right.

I love Robin.. He should still play the first November Rain solo ala RIR3.. He nailed everything that show, I've been a massive fan since. The Blues solo at RIR3 is unsurpassed : ok:

Robin is my favourite in the band, currently.

I love Robin.

But damn he played that NR solo so bad at RIR 01' :no:

he does it better now tough, but I think Fortus and BBF should get NR alone......they make it perfect

What do you think? I think we all can see that Robin is THE gnr guitarist onstage, even when he is clearly the less technically gifted of the three.
I don't agree with that statement. I think Robin and Bumblefoot both have a very different and distinct talent and style of playing, and are both important to the current band's sound. In my opinion, Richard is the less gifted of the three, although he's still an excellent player, which is why he remains generally in the shadows of the other two (not to discredit fans of Mr. Fortus, he's great).

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
Yes.
2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?
Natural. It's natural for the lead guitarist anyway, but of the three currently in GN'R he's the most dynamic. He's the most charismatic, and it was inherent in his playing with NIN that he was the focal point right beside Reznor to the fans.
3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?
More like Robin's spotlight was dimmed to the overwhelming attention someone with Buckethead's...eccentricities and appearance would garner. To the casual observer, Buckethead's genius talent didn't even register. He was simply too weird and rather than overshadow Robin he just garnered most of his press. It's hard to outdo a man wearing a KFC bucket, Michael Myers-type mask, and coveralls with rain coat, no matter how much better he may or may not play compared to you. Besides, I have 20 of Buckethead's "solo" albums, have always been and will always be a fan. I was happy I got to see him live for a brief moment with my favorite band, but his style simply does not fit with a band like this, no matter how proficiently talented he may be. Robin is THE GN'R guitarist of (I hate to use this expression) New GN'R.
4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?
Robin, Bumblefoot (who I love), and Richard.

Edit: I'd just like to add that for the record Robin's "change" in appearance is just a progression of his own unique style, not any pressure from Axl, the band, or the GN'R fan base. If you think his look right now is so drastically different, go look at all the older Robin Finck photos you can and you might realize he has a thing for being outlandish in his appearance, one way or another, and changed it up quite a bit. He never looked like a "goth freak," and his latest style is an expression of where he is now, suites him well, and is appropriate for his age. It's the best he's ever looked, and I've been a fan of Robin's since the mid-90s.

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
yes

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?
If you'd ever seen him perform with NIN, you'd see that he had exactly the same stage presence then as he does now.  I think the fact he was more inhibited in 01/02 is that they hadn't played many shows together at the time.  The chemistry between the members wasn't there so much because of this, and perhaps even the fact that there was a lot of criticism and hatred for them before they'd even played a show because of who they weren't could have also made him feel a bit nervous and uncomfortable to begin with.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?

I think Buckethead eclipsed the whole band.  Nothing against Buckethead, but I believe he got all of the attention for all of the wrong reasons.  People weren't seeing a great player, they were seeing a guy with a Jason mask and KFC bucket.  Even now the shadow of Buckethead looms over this band, as there are those who still don't know that he's left... you mention the new Guns N' Roses line-up to these people, and a lot of them will probably snicker and talk about how much of a joke Buckethead is.

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?
Robin, then Richard... I actually believe these two might actually be pretty equal in stage presence.  When they do they're guitar duet, it's a really emotional moment.  Bumblefoot is great too, but he tends to appear for his solos and then disappear again until the next time he gets to solo.

Wow.  I am really impressed.  Everyone here is really postive about his playing.  Where are the people who say "Robin Fink sux"  and "call the shit guitar playing police!"

Btw the guy who I have quoted above - totally agree with you mate.  He didnt do this change for anyone except himself.  He may even go back to the goth stage again so be careful what you say.  Though this little era is sexy, this is my favourite one:

(http://ehjy.com.ne.kr/artists/Nin/k_finck.jpg)

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?

Yes, but only at concerts. Bumblefoot has his gift at stage too.

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?

Both, i think.
Axl likes Finck a lot so he help him and he give advice
And part of that is something spontaneous, yo can't do it if not.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?

Sure, besides his look at that moment didn't help him.

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?

Finck
BBF
FORTUS

But technnicaly i like FORTUS, BBF and FINCK (in order)

---

take care,

Tatu

i agree but bucket head i dont think was the typical freak like he was cool but he had that look that was just....just........lets call it "different" 8) i thought it gave the interest feel to Guns'n'Roses when he was with them because if you were a guy/gal that walked by a picture of him with his bucket head thing on with a guitar in hand wouldn't you be interested in what that sounds like? i would :yes:

What I don't understand is the obsession with copying and pasting your topic on every forum. I hate going to different sites and seeing the same dumbass copy and pasted shit. Why couldn't it be left for MYGNRFORUM.com only... Start a different topic with whole new words and thoughts... perhaps that would be too hard...  :rant:

well some of us aren't apart of MYGNRFORUM.com, like me. besides i would think that they all have the same info on G'n'R right? so why be on all if you can just be on of one and get the same thing? ???
:headscratch:
how many diff. G'n'R forums are you guys apart of? i think Efish is like 3 or 4 hell he has one of his own and so do some others on this bored.

 :smoking:

I dont know why the fuck you are saying this. These questions in this topic were in my mind for a long time and I never seen a thread like this in other forums, even when I am registered in almost all ''famous'' GNR forums.

Do you know another guy that made a thread without knowing the proper meaning of the word ''protagonism'' like me?  :hihi:

Anyway, fuck off.

I learned a new word today, I think this thread is... wait for it... meretricious! It has been created just for you to use your new word  ;D

I kind of miss Robin's goth look.

I think Robin is much happier with Buckethead gone, but Robin always had the charisma. Robin is what got me interested to GNR again.

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?

Yes. Robin is clearly the number 2 man at Guns live shows these days (i.e. 06-07). He's certainly the guy (I would think) most people end up following around stage after Axl.

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?

I think more than anything it has to do with Robin feeling as if he surrendered his #2 position to Bucket (see below)- and never wanting to allow that to happen again. Hell, the guy began his involvement with the band in 1997 when Duff and Matt Sorum were STILL around. He's apparently a big song-writing force on the new album. Then all of sudden Bucket came in and took over his position. I think after 2002 he realized that he would have to step up his game both playing wise and appearance wise to preserve his role. He's done both quite successfully in my mind.

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?

Yes. I do. See above. I think Axl was still a little bitter towards Robin and the whole NIN tour departure thingy in '99 too.... that might have contributed to a greater concentration on Buckethead at the expense of Robin as well.

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?

I think for the moment, I would have to go:

1. Robin
2. Richard
3. Bumblefoot (who is IMHO the best player)

Bumblefoot is an amazing player- but in some ways he's kind of the "Gilby Clarke" of the new band. Basically there to replicate everything that the guy before him did playing wise and be a more harmonious band member off stage.

1) Do you agree with me about Robin being the most protagonist band member (live) after Axl?
Yes

2) [if you agree] Do you think that this protagonism is ''natural'', i mean, something spontaneous, or do you think it is something promoted and planned by Axl?

I believe it is because Robin is pissed outta his head at the shows, there is a video of Axl introducing the band and Robins over on Axls left without a guitar and wandering around struggling to stand up

3) [about 2001-2002] Could it be that Robin was ''eclipsed'' or ''inhibited'' by Buckethead those days?

Yes because a man with a mask on his face and a KFC bucket on his head is always going to stand out no matter what the other members do.

4) How would you rank, from more to less protagonism, the current three guitarists?

1. Robin
2.Ron
3.Richard

But its by an extremerly small margin that Ron beats Richard.

I've always said Robin was the heart and soul of GNR (Better proved it ;D) but to show how important Robin is, go back and read the interview with Brian May about recording with Axl and it shows how devestated Axl was when he left.

But I also think Bucketheads departure affected him deeply too :-\

I took Buckethead leaving pretty hard myself. It would be great to still have him around. When I found out he left, it was kind-of-like de-ja-vu with Slash leaving.

Only not quite as bad.    :nervous:


/bringbackadler