Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I realise this is an extremely tiring and extensive way to start a thread, but I felt it needed to be summarised what Axl has actually said. When reading these interviews I noticed how many misquotes that are being used as arguments around the boards. I hope this will instigate a discussion on CD which has more roots in reality than just pure memory. If not, well then all of you newcomers has the chance to read everything Axl has said about CD over the years without going through all the other stuff.

Below is a summary of all the quotes I could find regarding the making of Chinese Democracy. The quotes I found the most important and interesting are elevated in bold text. I have made a shorter summary of everything in another post which I want to use as the main source for discussion.



November 8th 1999

Loder: What have you been doing for the last six and a half years, since the last tour ended?

Rose: Trying to figure out how to make a record.

Loder: Who are the musicians who have re-recorded "Appetite?"

Rose: Josh Freese on drums, Tommy Stinson on bass, Paul Tobias on guitar -- you guys know him as Paul Huge, that's how it's been written everywhere. It's Paul Tobias on guitar, and Robin Finck was on lead guitar, but that... that will stay on some of it. Robin's guitar will stay on some, but not all. I don't know what I'm going to do with it, exactly, when I would be putting that out. But you know, it has a lot of energy. Learning the old Guns songs and getting them up, you know, putting them on tape, really forced everybody to get them up to the quality that they needed to be at. Once the energy was figured out by the new guys, how much energy was needed to get the songs right, then it really helped in the writing and recording process of the new record.

Loder: How much stuff have you got for this new album? You've been working on this for a long time. Is there just tons of material?

Rose: We've been working on, I don't know, 70 songs

Rose: The record will be about, anywhere from 16 to 18 songs, but we recorded at least two albums' worth of material that is solidly recorded. But we are working on a lot more songs than that at the same time... in that way, what we're doing is exploring so, you know, you get a good idea, you save it, and then maybe you come back to it later, or maybe you get a good idea and you go, "That's really cool, but that's not what we're looking for. Okay, let's try something new." You know, basically taking the advance money for the record and actually spending it on the record.

Loder: [Laughs] Not always the case, obviously.

Rose: No, and I don't want to be in a situation again where I have to depend on other people and have [to] start all over. So we have material that we think is too advanced for old Guns fans to hear right now and they would completely hate, because we were exploring the use of computers [along with] everybody really playing their ass off and combining that, but trying to push the envelope a bit. It's like, "Hmm, I have to push the envelope a little too far. We'll wait on that." So we got a list of things.

Loder: How's your guitar playing coming along now?

Rose: It's all right. I just wanted to be good enough to be able to contribute what was needed to this main album. It took working on the majority of these things and at least the couple albums' [worth] of material to figure out what should be on the first official Guns album. I wouldn't say it's like, you know, that we recorded a double album, or that we have all of our scraps to be the second one. There is a distinct difference in sound. The second leans probably a little more to aggressive electronica with full guitars, where the first one is definitely more guitar-based.

Loder: Are you thinking now about a stage show? Is it close enough to be thinking how you're gonna present this live, or is that still pretty much still in the future?

Rose: In ways. What we're doing is we're rehearsing with different guitar players, and we're still recording. I'm doing the vocals. I'm about three-quarters of the way through, and it's a very difficult process for me.

I write the vocals last, because I wanted to invent the music first and push the music to the level that I had to compete against it. That's kind of tough. It's like you got to go in against these new guys who kicked ass. You finally got the song musically where you wanted to, and then you have to figure out how to go in and kick its ass and be one person competing against this wall of sound.

Rose: [Laughs] I just, you know, I pretty much work on this record and, and that's about it. It takes a lot of time. I'm not a computer-savvy or technical type of person, yet I'm involved with it everyday, so it takes me a while.

Loder: You're going to call this album "Chinese Democracy." What is the meaning of that, since there is no Chinese democracy, of course?

Rose: Well, there's a lot of Chinese democracy movements, and it's something that there's a lot of talk about, and it's something that will be nice to see. It could also just be like an ironic statement. I don't know, I just like the sound of it.

Loder: When do you think we will actually see this album? Is it possible to say early next year?

Rose: We're hoping. Yes, definitely, everything seems to be going well. Robin's departure was abrupt, sudden, you know, not expected...

Loder: He just wanted to get back to Nine Inch Nails, right?

Rose: [continuing] ... but at the same time, it's turned out to be a good thing. We've been able to push some of the guitar parts a step farther, that had he been here, it's not something that would have been considered, and I wouldn't have been rude enough to attempt to do that. Robin did a great job, but we've been able to up the ante a little bit. Dave came in and did something great on "Oh My God," and we've had a few other people come in, so that was a setback for a while, but then it's turned out to be a good thing.

Loder: Have you actually brought in any hip-hop guys to sort of, like, examine the roots of the rhythm now? Has Dr. Dre stopped by or anything?

Rose: No, we haven't done anything like that. It's been thought of, but it's kind of [like] we would really be wasting somebody else's time, as we're trying to figure out how to develop this ourselves. Maybe if it were to get closer to, say, mastering or mixing, maybe there could be something someone else could add to it.

Loder: So we'll see you some time this new year, right? You will be around?

Rose: Yeah, we'll be around. I'm not working on all this to keep it buried. We plan on getting out there and doing it right. The new guys are a lot of fun, and like I say, we will be continuing to look for and or decide who the official new guitar player will be, but it's not that important to the band at this time, as that person's not really needed. There's not a whole lot for them to do at this time in regards to recording, as we've recorded [a] majority of material.

Loder: But you continue to audition, right?

Rose: Yes, we do. Yes, we do, and there's some people who have done a really great job. It's just not something we're prepared to make a complete decision on at this time.

January 2000

It is 2AM in dimly lit recording studio deep in Los Angeles' San Fernando Valley. Sitting back on a couch in the control room is a once omnipresent rock figure who has been out of the public view for most of the last decade. The music he's been playing on this long night has been the focus of his obsessive perfectionism since 1991, when Guns N Roses last released an album of new material.

But in late November, Axl Rose plays nearly a dozen tracks from the long in the works Guns N` Roses album for Rolling Stone and gave his first substantial interview in more than six years.

He was only an hour late to do so. Occasionally getting up to whisper details about what still must be done to complete the tracks- ''I gotta put some guitar here!'' - Rose comes across as intense but hardly humorless as he speaks at length about his music and the fate of his former band mates.

He's dressed tonight in Abercrombie & Fitch, with his reddish hair intact and cut to a Prince Valiant-ish mid-length. Having failed to deliver a new album by the end of the twentieth century, is Rose ready to commit to releasing a record sometime during the twenty-first?

''Yes, I think that would definitely be the right time,'' he answers, a slight grin coming to his face.

The new Guns N Roses album is tentatively titled Chinese Democracy and loosely scheduled for summer 2000.

''As far as I can tell,'' says GnR's manager Doug Goldstein, ''we are now 99% musically done and 80% vocals done. I see the record being done Feb or March for a summer release.''

But time is of little consequence in the world of Axl Rose.

From time to time, Rose gets up to pace the studio where he has spent the last year recording and re-recording material (his workday tends to start around midnight and run through the early daylight hours). ''What we're trying to do is build Guns N` Roses back into something,'' Rose explains quietly as he stands in front of a sunken isolation booth.

Furthermore, because the new material has been composed collaboratively with the new players, he insists, ''It's not an Axl Rose album, even if it's what I wanted it to be. Everybody is putting everything they've got into singing and building. Maybe I'm helping steer it to what it should be built like.''

Throughout the night, Rose seems anxious to finally have his say but wishes he could wait until the new album is released and can ''speak for itself.''

According to Rose, part of the delay in building the new model of Guns N` Roses has been ''educating myself'' about the technology that's come to define rock in the nineties: ''It's like from scratch, learning how to work with something and not wanting it just to be something you did on a computer.''

Imagine Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti remixed by Beck and Trent Reznor, and you'll have some sense of Axl's new sound.

Song after song combines the edgy hard rock force and pop smarts of vintage Guns N Roses with surprisingly modern and ambitious music textures. In addition to the album's almost grungy title track, tentative song titles include ''Catcher in the Rye,'' ''I.R.S,'' ''The Blues'' and ''TWAT,'' which he says stands for ''there was a time.''

Another song, called ''Oklahoma'' - heard tonight only as an instrumental - was inspired by a court date with ex-wife Erin Everly. ''I was sitting in my litigation with my ex-wife, and it was the day after the bombing,'' Rose remembers with a wince. ''We had a break, and I'm sitting with my attorneys with a sort of smile on my face, more like a nervous thing - it was like, 'Forgive me, people, I'm having trouble taking this seriously.' It's just ironic that we're sitting there and this person is spewing all kinds of things and 168 people just got killed. And this person I'm sitting there with, she don't care. Obliterating me is their goal.''

Rose repeatedly speaks of ''building something''.

The rebuilding - and ongoing reinvention - of Guns N Roses has been a difficult and, quite obviously, slow and expensive process. Rose does point out that the expense will be less glaring if, as he expects, he gets another record out of the hours and hours of material he's committed to tape, possibly one that's even more industrial and electronica-influence than Chinese Democracy. ''I'd like to take some of the old Guns fans along with me gradually into the twenty-first century,''

Having stayed publicly silent so long, Rose appears to view the album as a final offering-up of his side of all his myriad battles - notably with his estranged band mates and, even more painful, with his one time fiancee, supermodel Stephanie Seymour, with whom he had an ugly split. He speaks of his desire for Seymour's son to someday be able to come across the new record. ''I hope he'll hear it when he grows up, if he ever wants to know the story, to hear the truth,'' Rose says a little quietly. Rather than simply create a work that's negative and vengeful, though, Rose seems anxious to make something ''positive.''

As for his reputation as a recluse locked away mysteriously at his Malibu estate, Rose says, ''The reality is that I'm not clubbing because I don't find it's in my best interest to be out there. I am building something slowly, and it doesn't seem to be much out there as in here, in the studio and in my home. So many times, I have come down here and I had no idea that I was going to be able to. If you are working with issues that depressed the crap out of you, how do you know you can express it? At the time, you are just like, 'Life sucks.' Then you come down and you express 'Life Sucks,' but in this really beautiful way.''

January 2001

Although this, the performance at Rock In Rio was the target of some criticizism from Axl. According to him, his voice was not at his best because of lack of sleep and the band needs to adjust the sound to these great shows. The expectations of the band turns now to the new album, "Chinese Democracy", which will be released in June. The leader guarantees his fans that they will be rewarded for the long wait.

With 18 songs, the group's next album (they haven't released anything since 1993's "The Spaghetti Incident?") is a collection of songs, which in Axl's opinion are as good as "November Rain". Among them "Madagascar", included in the show on Sunday. The CD will include a tribute to John Lennon and another about child abuse

January 2001

DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.


DJ: OK, now we can hear you clearly clearly clearly. Umm, we were talking about the things about the fans expecting the new band and the new record. Are you gonna work with the same people that are playing live with you here in South America?

Axl: Yes, that is who will be on the new record and there may be also a couple of other players. Brian May from Queen plays on a couple of songs. Umm, the drummer Josh Freese, umm who is in another band now, he plays on a lot of the songs. Umm, and... but mainly you know it will be the new band and the new band to play the songs live.

January 22nd 2001

R&P: We know that Chinese Democracy will be released in June, but we wanted to know what the reasons are for taking so long before releasing the album?

Axl: We hadn't written songs or recorded for many years. There were band changes and there were many changes in the record company. People in the record company had many opinions and they wanted to make the best possible record. Every time that we thought that we had the correct songs, then somebody thought that we could make it better. We started over, we continued adding songs, continued recording and recording. I think that when we release the album, it's gonna be something that I'm gonna be proud of and confident in. Then, we will also have an extra heap of songs. This band has played only been together for six weeks before Rio. So it is still very new for them to play together as band, with Robin (Finck) and Buckethead. That was a surprise. Obviously, that was the correct decision to make, but it was not originally planned to have three guitarists.

R&P: Is your new material more industrial? We hear that it is not very similar to that of your old band.

Axl: It is not industrial, the closest thing to that was perhaps Oh My God, but there are some songs that won't be on the album that were this way. There will be all kinds of styles, many influences as blues, mixed in the songs. But not so much inspiration of Aerosmith or AC/DC that was used on Appetite. Buckethead, his first influence and the reason why he grabbed a guitar for the first time was Angus Young of AC/DC. Several of the boys love to play AC/DC. It is only we will play other styles. When we tried writing songs in the old style of Guns N' Roses, they sounded too old, they didn't sound so alive. We could not make that. And I think that that also passed with the old Guns N' Roses. The songs composed by the boys for another album many years ago, everything sounded old. Then we tried to explore to maintain the band alive.

August 14th 2002

Guns N? Roses will go back into the studio immediately following the aforementioned dates to put the final touches on the forthcoming ?Chinese Democracy? album.

Regarding the work in progress Axl commented as follows:

?I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again. There are a lot of new songs that were just done in the last year that we feel that ?okay, well that bumps a lot of stuff off the previous list but it's time to stop that now and wrap up the baby. It feels right, the timing, and a lot of things. We?ve sorted it down to what songs are on the record. What the sequence of the songs is. The album cover art is ready. Blah, blah, blah. If you're waiting...don't. Live your life. That's your responsibility not mine. If it were not to happen you won't have missed a thing. If in fact it does you might get something that works for you, in the end you could win on this either way. But if you're really into waiting try holding your breath for Jesus cause I hear the payoff may be that much greater.

On Richard Fortus replacing Paul Tobias:

?Paul helped us a lot in the writing and the recording of this record and to me was a vital part of not only the band but also my life. The world tour really wasn?t his cup of tea whereas he's much more comfortable in a studio setting. We?re fortunate to have found Richard who has this vibe kind of like Izzy but with amazing feel. The first thing I heard Richard play was the beginning of "Stray Cat Blues" by the Stones and he did it with the right feel. Richard likes to play rhythm. He?s an amazing lead player and very technically skilled. He really likes the pocket that Brain sets and the two of them click with Tommy so we finally have the real deal rhythm section, as Richard is a proven professional. Basically, Richard?s the guy that we always were looking for. I think that we?ll go on to write some very interesting things with Richard and he?s already done some rhythm work and some leads on the album.?

Finally Axl had the following to say about the many rumors surrounding Guns N? Roses:

?People talk about player haters. Well, I don?t think it pays to be a ?hater - hater.? You?ve got the haters out there but the guys in this band it just rolls off their shoulders because they take a certain pride in their work. They?re hungry and they want to do this for all the right reasons. They want to get this material out there to the people. Now that we feel that we have clarity as to the album we?re trying to make, we?re wrapping it up. We?ve had every obstacle and every strange occurrence that you can have and for us to be playing Hong Kong in a few days is a big step.

August 29th 2002

Kurt: What took you so long?

Axl: I was just trying to put this monstrosity together

Kurt: What's gonna happen now? Is Chinese Democracy going to come out? Are we gonna see it soon?

Axl: Umm you'll see it, I dont know if soon is the word. But it will come out and we will, we'll go back, we'll do some more recording and then we'll start the American leg of the tour... And see how it goes from there.

Kurt: This has taken a long time.

Axl: Yeah, but it's also how do you rebuild something that got so big and replace virtually every person on the crew, every single thing. And how do you make a whole bunch of guys that are something else into something that already was. I dont know if it's exactly been done like this. And not with the intensity of these players wanting to play the material.

March 30th 2004

The band has been put in an untenable position by guitarist Buckethead and his untimely departure. During his tenure with the band Buckethead has been inconsistent and erratic in both his behavior and commitment - despite being under contract - creating uncertainty and confusion and making it virtually impossible to move forward with recording, rehearsals and live plans with confidence. His transient lifestyle has made it impossible for even his closest friends to have nearly any form of communication with him whatsoever.

I would also like to express my gratitude to those who chose to embrace Buckethead's role in Guns and support our new line up. We greatly appreciate Bucket's contributions and remain open to "discussions" as there are obviously several issues to resolve. In the meantime rather than dwelling on the negative, Guns will be moving forward and surprisingly (without giving away any details) this unfortunate set of circumstances may have given us the opportunity to take our recording that one extra step further. Regardless we hope to announce a release date within the next few months.

October 12th 2004

There have been numerous reports over the last few weeks from various sources claiming that one person or another has been invited to join Guns N' Roses. To set the record straight no one - we repeat no one - has been invited to join the band.

January 17th 2006

Gn'R mastermind talks "Democracy" at L.A. party: "People will hear music this year," says Axl Rose, puffing on a cigar in the early hours of Saturday morning at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery

The notoriously reclusive rocker is of course referring to Guns n' Roses' decade-in-the-making Chinese Democracy, arguably the most anticipated album in rock & roll history. "It's a very complex record," says Rose, a surprise guest at Korn's tour announcement bash. (Others in the house: Jessica Alba, cast members of The OC, and members of Linkin Park, Good Charlotte and the Used.) "I'm trying to do something different. Some of the arrangements are kind of like Queen. Some people are going to say, 'It doesn't sound like Axl Rose, it doesn't sound like Guns n' Roses.'" He then smiles and adds, "But you'll like at least a few songs on there."

After all, before he lends his talents to others' projects, Rose has one of his own to finish, and he says it's getting there. "We're working on thirty-two songs, and twenty-six are nearly done," he says. Of those, thirteen are slated for the final album. Among Rose's favorites are "Better," "There Was a Time" and "The Blues."


September 11th 2006

So what?s the holdup with Chinese Democracy, Axl? ?It?s not about being a control freak. It?s about being maybe smart enough to go, ?No, that?s a bad idea.? That?s all it?s about?keeping the ability to at least have a shot as opposed to something that?s just an obvious disaster. I want to make a good record. I don?t want to throw a brick. This cannot be Shaq at the free-throw line.? Rose promises the album will be released by the end of the year.

December 14th 2006

Because of the scheduling of these particular shows, valuable time needed by the band and record company for the proper setup and release of the album ?Chinese Democracy? would have been lost. Rather than delay the album yet again, all involved have decided to remove these shows from GN?R?s schedule.

To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement. Overcoming the endless and seemingly insane amount of obstacles faced by all involved, notwithstanding the emotional challenges endured by everyone -- the fans, the band, our road crew and business team -- has at many times seemed like a bad dream in which one wakes up only to find that they are still in the nightmare. Unfortunately, this time it has been played out for over a decade in real life.

The true, ongoing, behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties are much more complicated than any negative speculation that the media or otherwise has managed to hit upon. For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album. It?s easy for people to point out how others have handled similar situations or how they would have dealt with these issues themselves if they encountered them in their own lives. But again, without full knowledge of the various dynamics and circumstances involved, these types of comments or commentary are just uninformed, disassociated, generally useless -- and often hindering --speculation.

When I agreed to do our recent North American tour, I did it with the understanding that my manager, Merck Mercuriadis, and I were in full agreement regarding our strategy and touring plans and, most important, that any and all things needed to release the album by Dec. 26 at the latest were in place. Unfortunately, it turned out that this was not the case, and I regret to say that the album will not be released by the end of the year. Although many things went extremely well and were very exciting, there were, in our opinion, unnecessary and avoidable complications on our tour having to do with the tour routing, scheduling and album and video plans that wreaked havoc on all involved. This was compounded by an overall sense of a lack of respect by management for the band and crew and each individual's particular expertise that has resulted, unfortunately, in the end of both Guns? and my managerial involvement with Merck Mercuriadis.

In regard to a release date for the album itself, certain minor - and I do mean minor -- additions, as well as contract negotiations, need to be completed. Barring any unforeseen complications, these things have now been adequately scheduled. The band and I, along with our record company, feel that this record deserves the proper setup and promotion, not the ?13 Tuesdays left? and ?It may just appear in your record store? approach offered by management. We believe this strategy may have been used as a tool by management to sell this latest tour to the various promoters, and if this was the case, this was obviously unfair to them. The stress of dealing with this situation has been considerable for everyone, including the band, but more important, in our opinion, it was something utterly insane to do to our fans. You have our apologies, and please know we have been laboring over this with management for the entire North American tour.

It takes approximately eight weeks for an album to hit the shelves once it has been turned in to the record company. For whatever reasons, it appears that it may have been mistakenly inferred by management that this time period could be condensed to three weeks. With that being said, this is not a promise, a lie or a guarantee, but we do wish to announce a tentative release date of March 6. This is the first time we have done this publicly for this album. Others have made up all the other dates for their own reasons. We would like to assure the fans that everything in our power will be done to meet this date. Once it is finalized and official, you will be notified. If we are delayed for unseen reasons, you also will be notified as soon as possible in regard to a new date, and the album will be released as shortly thereafter as is possible. We thank you for your patience.

This is the "short" summary of the above post. I've posted my comments at the bottom of each 'theme', the ones that are neither in cursive, underlined or bold text.

On songs

November 8th 1999

We've been working on, I don't know, 70 songs

The record will be about, anywhere from 16 to 18 songs, but we recorded at least two albums' worth of material that is solidly recorded. But we are working on a lot more songs than that at the same time...

I wouldn't say it's like, you know, that we recorded a double album, or that we have all of our scraps to be the second one. There is a distinct difference in sound. The second leans probably a little more to aggressive electronica with full guitars, where the first one is definitely more guitar-based.

August 26th 2002

So you'll get 18 songs and about 10 extra tracks. And when that... when the record company feels that has run [it's] source, then you'll get it all over again. And by that time, I should be done with the 3rd album! So we'll see if all goes well boys and girls!

January 17th 2006

"We're working on thirty-two songs, and twenty-six are nearly done," he says. Of those, thirteen are slated for the final album

As we can see the number of available songs increased from 1999 to 2002, but seems to have decreased again at the time 2006 rolled around. I take this as they since 2002 have been producing less new stuff and started concentrating more on the absolute best songs. The 3 album plan seems to still be somehow alive, but it will in that case be 13 songs on CD and then 10 and 9 songs on the following 2 albums. Or it could be they're planning 2 albums and releasing b-sides, but I doubt that.

The number of songs on the album has also decreased, which seems to indicate alot of additions making the songs more complex, epic and longer. TWAT is a good example.

On the process

November 8th 1999

Loder: What have you been doing for the last six and a half years, since the last tour ended?

Rose: Trying to figure out how to make a record.

But we are working on a lot more songs than that at the same time... in that way, what we're doing is exploring so, you know, you get a good idea, you save it, and then maybe you come back to it later, or maybe you get a good idea and you go, "That's really cool, but that's not what we're looking for. Okay, let's try something new." You know, basically taking the advance money for the record and actually spending it on the record.

In ways. What we're doing is we're rehearsing with different guitar players, and we're still recording. I'm doing the vocals. I'm about three-quarters of the way through, and it's a very difficult process for me.

I write the vocals last, because I wanted to invent the music first and push the music to the level that I had to compete against it. That's kind of tough. It's like you got to go in against these new guys who kicked ass. You finally got the song musically where you wanted to, and then you have to figure out how to go in and kick its ass and be one person competing against this wall of sound.

I just, you know, I pretty much work on this record and, and that's about it. It takes a lot of time. I'm not a computer-savvy or technical type of person, yet I'm involved with it everyday, so it takes me a while.

January 2000

According to Rose, part of the delay in building the new model of Guns N` Roses has been ''educating myself'' about the technology that's come to define rock in the nineties: ''It's like from scratch, learning how to work with something and not wanting it just to be something you did on a computer.''

Rose repeatedly speaks of ''building something''.

So many times, I have come down here and I had no idea that I was going to be able to. If you are working with issues that depressed the crap out of you, how do you know you can express it? At the time, you are just like, 'Life sucks.' Then you come down and you express 'Life Sucks,' but in this really beautiful way.''

January 22nd 2001

....what the reasons are for taking so long before releasing the album?

Axl: We hadn't written songs or recorded for many years. There were band changes and there were many changes in the record company. People in the record company had many opinions and they wanted to make the best possible record. Every time that we thought that we had the correct songs, then somebody thought that we could make it better. We started over, we continued adding songs, continued recording and recording.

August 14th 2002

Regarding the work in progress Axl commented as follows:

?I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again.

We?ve had every obstacle and every strange occurrence that you can have and for us to be playing Hong Kong in a few days is a big step.

August 29th 2002

Kurt: What took you so long?

Axl: I was just trying to put this monstrosity together

Kurt: This has taken a long time.

Axl: Yeah, but it's also how do you rebuild something that got so big and replace virtually every person on the crew, every single thing. And how do you make a whole bunch of guys that are something else into something that already was.

March 30th 2004

The band has been put in an untenable position by guitarist Buckethead and his untimely departure. During his tenure with the band Buckethead has been inconsistent and erratic in both his behavior and commitment - despite being under contract - creating uncertainty and confusion and making it virtually impossible to move forward with recording, rehearsals and live plans with confidence.

September 11th 2006

So what?s the holdup with Chinese Democracy, Axl? ?It?s not about being a control freak. It?s about being maybe smart enough to go, ?No, that?s a bad idea.? That?s all it?s about?keeping the ability to at least have a shot as opposed to something that?s just an obvious disaster. I want to make a good record. I don?t want to throw a brick. This cannot be Shaq at the free-throw line.?

December 14th 2006

To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement. Overcoming the endless and seemingly insane amount of obstacles faced by all involved, notwithstanding the emotional challenges endured by everyone -- the fans, the band, our road crew and business team -- has at many times seemed like a bad dream in which one wakes up only to find that they are still in the nightmare. Unfortunately, this time it has been played out for over a decade in real life.

The true, ongoing, behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties are much more complicated than any negative speculation that the media or otherwise has managed to hit upon. For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album.

Although many things went extremely well and were very exciting, there were, in our opinion, unnecessary and avoidable complications on our tour having to do with the tour routing, scheduling and album and video plans that wreaked havoc on all involved. This was compounded by an overall sense of a lack of respect by management for the band and crew and each individual's particular expertise that has resulted, unfortunately, in the end of both Guns? and my managerial involvement with Merck Mercuriadis.

December 15th 2006

At this point we were very excited as Axl's feeling was that we had two or three days of work left to tidy things up and we still had three weeks before the tour started, so we were in good shape. Unfortunately the muse disappeared just as fast as she came and the tour started with no single at radio to support it and the album still needing two or three days of work.

As we can see the album was still pretty much at a prelimimenary level in 99/00. Personal struggles, problems with the label and uncertainty is the red thread in Axls quotes. He's not even sure about how the lineup will be in an eventual comeback.

In 2001 however the mood seems to have changed. He talks about his problems more in a past tense rather than as an ongoing process. He even talks about release dates with a certain amount of confidence. We now know nothing materialised that year, so there must still have been some problems, at least in Axls mind.

In 2002 he says pretty much the same, but with a different tone. The recording is now described with very big words. His view on the struggle has obviously changed from 'problems' to 'immense problems'. Dealing with the aborted comeback and tour in 2001 is likely to have brought these feelings on. He speaks with certainty regarding alot of issues, but then contradicts himself in the next sentence. Obviously the words of a very conflicted man.

The blame in 2004 is put on Bucketheads departure, although it's more likely the lack of progress was more due to the lawsuits and depressions following the previous tour abortion and increasing problems with the label. And although he paints the picture of an unbearable situation he still manages to claim all of it as a good thing. Still a highly conflicted man.

2006 doesn't deliver much new to the table. Once again he's confident, although he is still not finished. The little difference is that he seems more sure about a completion than before, and the problems seems to have grown even bigger than ever before in his mind. He seems to have dealt with alot of shit since 2002.

I gather from his quotes that the recording has always moved forward, but the process in doing so has gotten increasingly worse.

Who will be on the album?

November 8th 1999

Loder: Who are the musicians who have re-recorded "Appetite?"

Rose: Josh Freese on drums, Tommy Stinson on bass, Paul Tobias on guitar -- you guys know him as Paul Huge, that's how it's been written everywhere. It's Paul Tobias on guitar, and Robin Finck was on lead guitar, but that... that will stay on some of it. Robin's guitar will stay on some, but not all.

Loder: Have you actually brought in any hip-hop guys to sort of, like, examine the roots of the rhythm now? Has Dr. Dre stopped by or anything?

Rose: No, we haven't done anything like that. It's been thought of, but it's kind of [like] we would really be wasting somebody else's time, as we're trying to figure out how to develop this ourselves. Maybe if it were to get closer to, say, mastering or mixing, maybe there could be something someone else could add to it.

January 2001

DJ:Are you gonna work with the same people that are playing live with you here in South America?

Axl: Yes, that is who will be on the new record and there may be also a couple of other players. Brian May from Queen plays on a couple of songs. Umm, the drummer Josh Freese, umm who is in another band now, he plays on a lot of the songs. Umm, and... but mainly you know it will be the new band and the new band to play the songs live.

August 14th 2002

?Paul helped us a lot in the writing and the recording of this record and to me was a vital part of not only the band but also my life.

Basically, Richard?s the guy that we always were looking for. I think that we?ll go on to write some very interesting things with Richard and he?s already done some rhythm work and some leads on the album.?

March 30th 2004

I would also like to express my gratitude to those who chose to embrace Buckethead's role in Guns and support our new line up. We greatly appreciate Bucket's contributions and remain open to "discussions" as there are obviously several issues to resolve.

December 14th 2006

In regard to a release date for the album itself, certain minor - and I do mean minor -- additions, as well as contract negotiations, need to be completed.

The big question: Who will feature on the album? For me, and alot of other people, this question mainly revolves around Buckethead.

Reading these quotes really give me alot of confidence. Robin, Josh Freese, Brian May and Buckethead are all wanted by Axl on the album although they're not around. He mainly wants to use the current band, but it seems he understands the value of certain contributions. All good signs.

He also talks about resolving issues around the use of BHs music, and in 2006 he talks about 'contract negotiations' regarding a release. Could they be connected? I think it's very possible. Notice how he never even mentions BH in the 'letter', but that he adresses almost every other concern from the fanbase. I believe the use of his music is one of the things that are yet to be resolved.

I put in the hip hop quote as I feel it might, just might, apply to Frank and BBFs work on the album. We've heard from Ron that he only made 'additions'. This could be interpreted as being little fills and percussion elements to go in the background.

It's also nice to know that we might be hearing Brain May (perhaps on future albums), Paul Tobias and Josh Freese on the album. It will be diverse to say the least.

The release

November 8th 1999

Loder: When do you think we will actually see this album? Is it possible to say early next year?

Rose: We're hoping. Yes, definitely, everything seems to be going well. Robin's departure was abrupt, sudden,
you know, not expected...

January 2000

Having failed to deliver a new album by the end of the twentieth century, is Rose ready to commit to releasing a record sometime during the twenty-first?

''Yes, I think that would definitely be the right time,'' he answers, a slight grin coming to his face.

The new Guns N Roses album is tentatively titled Chinese Democracy and loosely scheduled for summer 2000.

''As far as I can tell,'' says GnR's manager Doug Goldstein, ''we are now 99% musically done and 80% vocals done. I see the record being done Feb or March for a summer release.''

January 2001

The expectations of the band turns now to the new album, "Chinese Democracy", which will be released in June.

DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.

August 14th 2002

Guns N? Roses will go back into the studio immediately following the aforementioned dates to put the final touches on the forthcoming ?Chinese Democracy? album.

There are a lot of new songs that were just done in the last year that we feel that ?okay, well that bumps a lot of stuff off the previous list but it's time to stop that now and wrap up the baby. It feels right, the timing, and a lot of things. We?ve sorted it down to what songs are on the record. What the sequence of the songs is. The album cover art is ready. Blah, blah, blah. If you're waiting...don't. Live your life. That's your responsibility not mine. If it were not to happen you won't have missed a thing. If in fact it does you might get something that works for you, in the end you could win on this either way. But if you're really into waiting try holding your breath for Jesus cause I hear the payoff may be that much greater.

August 29th 2002

Kurt: What's gonna happen now? Is Chinese Democracy going to come out? Are we gonna see it soon?

Axl: Umm you'll see it, I dont know if soon is the word. But it will come out and we will, we'll go back, we'll do some more recording and then we'll start the American leg of the tour... And see how it goes from there.

March 30th 2004

Guns will be moving forward and surprisingly (without giving away any details) this unfortunate set of circumstances may have given us the opportunity to take our recording that one extra step further. Regardless we hope to announce a release date within the next few months.

January 17th 2006

"People will hear music this year"

September 11th 2006

Rose promises the album will be released by the end of the year.

December 14th 2006

It takes approximately eight weeks for an album to hit the shelves once it has been turned in to the record company. For whatever reasons, it appears that it may have been mistakenly inferred by management that this time period could be condensed to three weeks. With that being said, this is not a promise, a lie or a guarantee, but we do wish to announce a tentative release date of March 6.


This is truly where we can see how contradictive and unstable Axl really is. This must be one of my favorite quotes, and the most absurd one I've ever read.


First he begins to explain how little is left and how much is done, then immediately in the next sentence he tells us not to wait, and that it might not happen at all. I can fathom most of what Axl says on some level, but this here just goes off the charts. How can anyone say what he said there? It goes against all logic.

But the main point here is that although he's given tentative release dates or 'periods' before, 2006 seems to be the first time he's really sure, at least on paper. The contradicting statements are also to some degree gone. There's some obvious bullshit in the 'letter', but mainly he sticks to the fact that even though the albums not finished he seems sure to be able to finish it soon.

VERY LONG BUT COOL BREAKDOWN

Thanks for posting that and I agree with almost everything you said in your comments. People pick and choose what they want to believe. When read in it's entirety, you see that Axl is a highly conflicted and contradictory guy. I am not criticizing him either. His life experiences have created the person that he is and I am sure the making of this record has been quite a hard task. But, he tends to make things harder on himself sometimes. However, we have to take the good with the bad and look to the future-not the past. Axl is a very complex guy who really just needs to let this thing go and move on. Hopefully, he finally does this in March. :-*

I just want to know how this plays into it...

Slash Says All Is Fine With Velvet Revolver

Slash was inducted as part of the Hollywood Rockwalk on Wednesday evening, and he was ushered in with Ronnie James Dio and Terry Bozzio. Slash, who is in the middle of working on the next Velvet Revolver album, was rumored to have had a falling out with the band at one point.

Backstage at the event we asked Slash about how the members of Velvet Revolver were getting along.

"Oh, everything's great. We went through a lot of stuff from, we toured for 19 months on the last record. We had a lot of business issues that we had to deal with. We had a lot of personal issues we had to deal with. We had people come out of the woodwork trying to sort of wreck the band, and issues that were sort of...we hadn't predicted. We didn't things to happen. There was some old Guns N' Roses things that came up, that reared its head, that was really ugly. But we hung in there and that makes us stronger as a group. Basically everybody survived it, and we're that much stronger for it, and we've made an amazing record, so it's all good."


FROM ULTIMATE GUITAR
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/video_news/slash_says_all_is_fine_with_velvet_revolver.html

i suppose it maybe true the rumour where slash turned up at axls house and wanted to get back with GnR?

i think reading all thouse things, it kinda makes me feel..............pessimistic.

there are so many times where axl or one person or another, says that CD is "months away" or "next summer", kinda makes me not hold
my breath for the album!

ahh, memories!

Thankx a lot for this long work man : ok:

I've printed it so that I can read it while having a beer 'cause it's damn long, but worth it ! :beer:

Elevens...

I'm assuming Slash was talking about the Axl PR which had some pretty "interesting" stuff said in it pertaining to VR.  I'm sure it caused a stir.

 You are right. Axl is a conflicted man. He only seems to complicate problems himself. If he could finally get out of his own way than maybe we'll finally get the new CD.

Maybe I'm surrounded by the most complicated people in the world that I don't expect anyone to sound exactly the same to what they said a few years back.
Sure there may be certain contradictories when it comes to the release. But that's sorta understandable. No one wants to start to talk about every problem they got in public.

I always quote the exact words. 8)



If so, that was a great help for them, it seems.

thanks for the post dude ;) this was very interesting to read.. and as someone already said.. reading this makes you feel like it will never come.. so many promises.. but I sure hope 07 is the year after all this hype

How is it unstable? He only said dont wait for it, go live your life and stop waiting around for an album, because in the end that's all it is. No one should expect it to change the world and all of a sudden bring world peace. And honestly when he said that he was probably talking about the people on the message boards who comb through his every word to find hidden meanings and shit that isn't there....

He didn't only say that. He talks about the album all but being finished, then he goes to say that it might not happen at all. I don't even see how that's possible in the same sentence.

The fact that the man has said the album is coming soon multiple times should be evidence enough that he's not too sure about himself in that regard.

And I'm not the one interpreting his words, that's you.

It's possible because sometimes things come up unexpectedly and plans have to change because of it. 2006 is a great example of that. They had planned on having the album out last year but certain things happened and it was no longer possible. So by saying "don't wait" after talking about what was left to do he cleared himself from being called a liar when things didn't go down as planned.

Remember he also has said "soon is not the word" when it comes to the album as well. So just pointing out one part of the story isn't right. At least post the times when he said it wasn't coming soon as well...

Did I say you were interpreting his words to be one thing? No I didn't mention any names. The people I'm talking about know who they are because they search every little thing he says looking for double meanings and hidden agendas.

  we shouldn`t use 5-8 year old quotes to analyse axl or to interpret the CD situation:hihi:  ( maybe we shouldn`t even analyse axl at all...... however.....  we don`t have anything better to do at the moment i guess...)

the quotes from 2006 and the new, old axl is what we should take into account :peace:

we should keep the time from 1998-2004 in mind though.......

For the record he did post the quote where Axl said "soon wasnt the word."

Sorry didn't see that one there, too much stuff to have to read through. My other points still stand though....

But aren't you trying to do that? trying to find out how to read between the lines, ie between "The album cover art is ready." "Blah, blah, blah." and "If you're waiting........ "

audio/video might help.

 Way to much analyzing around here. You guys drive yourself crazy.  :confused:

I dont wanna defend axl blindly here, but anybody who has been in Production management of ANY PRODUCT
knows that things get pushed back all the time.

i mean, i havent worked much, but for example at L'oreal, things get pushed all the time
our ads have like 15 tentative release date until they finally appear in the magazines

and when we plan the 1st or 2nd or 3rd release date we actually believe it
but then, the day before you think the model  is too fat
or her eyes look wierd
or the logo is not big enough
or the colors are faded
or you can see her nipple

i mean, and it's only for stupid beauty product ad ... so imagine for a CD ??!!!!

i have lived that for video games
i have lived that for cosmetics

and any body here who works know how it goes

and trust me, every time axl said something about Cd, he did believe it at the moment. it's about how crazy he is, it's just .... life.

PEACE

The 'unexpected' things were Axl not being able to finish up. Now, there's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but when you've done these things before you should think twice before using words as 'definitely'. That's why I view him as unstable.

And I'm not deliberate not using his other quotes, the one you pointed out might be the only one in that regard. The point is he's throwing contradictions around him on a regular basis.

Saying those two sentences contradict each other isn't interpretation, it's fact. If we had audio/video we might spot some other factors that might explain it, but we don't.

I think you did a pretty good job compiling all Axl quotes about the album polluxlm. It was definetly time consuming.

knowing that it doesn't mean anything is also a fact .....

Of course it means something. Everything does. You see the quote, now make up your own mind. That's what it's for.

The other glaring similarity in EVERY interview is how Axl blames someone or something for keeping him from finishing the record. Record label wants to keep working on it, lawsuits, Buckethead quit, Robin quit, management scheduled the tour dates wrong, it is always an excuse. Of course, he never points to himself. Just an observation. :hihi:

nah,
if i say NOW - i like RED
and then 10 seconds later i say
I like GREEN

ok i might be disturbed


if in 2001 i say " i want to release my anti aging cream in september "
and then in 2004 i say " ok now i think i can release my anti aging cream "
i am normal
this is life
things change

it's just that, after a 1st release date has been shot down, i dont think axl is the mood to go to the press or internet and say

" well ok, i said this, but you know, the merchandasing departement had problems, then i heard the song 4543 again and i didnt like it anymore .... "

things change
opinions change

normal life.

for all i know axl was talking too much :)

Saying things change is just another excuse for not completing the project. Now, I will agree that Art is different. But, Axl lives in a world of art and commerce/business. Somebody gave him 13 million to go play in a studio for 8 years. That entity wants a completion to the project. If Axl had funded this thing by himself, then he is entitled to take as long as he wants. However, projects in the real world have deadlines and deadlines have to be met at some point. :-\

Can we sticky some sort of summary of this? its a great reference tool cheers dude  : ok:

I was going to create a thread about trying to look at some potential contradictions that have come from Axl, but this is pretty self explanatory stuff.

Otherwise great put you forgot the Trunk interview parts  ;)

First you say art is different, then go on about how projects have deadlines.




Maybe if you were actually funding the recording I could understand the whole "he owes us an album" mentality that some people have...

Personally I'm happy that there's artists who dare to do things their way.

I've mentioned before that I finished reading U2 By U2 a while back. In the book they talk about how they're wishing they would've had more time to finish the Pop album (from 1997). They just had to stop due to the promotion and tour starting. In their opinion, the album never got properly done.....





/jarmo

Please read the next sentence Jarmo. It is art AND business. I didn't fund the record and NEVER said he owes me anything so don't lump me in blindly with the real complainers - be clear about that. Read my exact words. He does owe the people who funded the project-whoever that may be. Business works that way in the real world. : ok:

The fact that this is BUSINESS and ART explains how things are changing all the time.

come on, even when you do your homework, things get not done on time

just think about how it can go wrong for a music cd ...

oh yeah, britney does it in time
madonna too

somewhere, there are musicians who just wanna go there way
and if they wanna tour they don't

we should happy that axl is not a sellout to mtv's and any marketing campaign.

We should be hearing that the album is delayed again 'soon'. Or, of course, it will finally hit the record stores this time.... nah !   :crying:

Buggin'- Agree. I respect the fact that he is doing the project his way and not giving in to external forces, especially the record company assholes who are ruining the industry. We will get a better record because of it. ?;)

I said 'trying'. If you find a mystery....
I think there's the audio/video of this somewhere.

anyways the latest letter says they've met with numerous obstacles. Doesn't it sorta explain that?
when you have too many and too complicated things to tell in a short time and you don't know where to begin, you may well just skip all of them and focus on what should be told there, even if you're the most simple person on the earth. 
Not that I'm certain of this but I don't think any further digging into the gap is necessary or worth your while.

Reading through all of this, I can't help but agree with you. In the original post there was a comment like "2006 brought nothing new to the table". Those type of statements blow my mind! It's like HELLO? How is the new music we heard not bringing something new to the table??

All I know is that this the first time I've seen Axl Rose directly communicate with the fans and the fans alone about this subject. And when he did so he announced a date (however tentative) for the first time ever.

Everything else has been done through a press release or interview. I'm grateful for the form of communication and for what was said in it.

Here's to new developments in the near future!

Highly unprobable. And if you found it you'd grab a bunch of other stuff before that.


It explains obstacles. After 16 years there's obviously been a few. But it doesn't explain why Axl chooses to express himself in such a contradictory manner.

I don't require him to tell me the details, but I would wish for him to not say certain things when he must know there's a more than slight chance of it not happening.

The leaks brought something new to the table, but not from him. At least not until proven. The letter etc. isn't per say anything new either. It's just a different approach to not delivering.

The tentative date is the closest thing we got to something new. Now let's hope something materializes from that, for once.

Most forum members would say otherwise.  I don't think he's a bigmouth either.
All I was trying to say in the previous post was that maybe he didn't choose but something like what I wrote occurred to him while he was speaking. Wasn't it from a short interview in the bustle after VMAs?

No, it was from the gnronline interview in 2002. I hardly think anything in there wasn't approved.

Well yeah, I can see the logic behind him not being a bigmouth :hihi: But if you only speak once a year, wouldn't it be clever to not say too much about the thing you don't know you'll be able to deliver?

Thanks for the effort : ok:

Makes me kinda sad that axl has said the album is "coming soon" so often, makes me think the 6th of March date is worth a little less.

anyone see any similarity between the comments made when Robin left and those made when Buckethead left....freaky stuff !

They are very similar indeed, right down to 'taking the recording an extra step further'. Having your lead guitarist quit after contributing so much time and effort to a project is a great loss. This is not interpretation, it's fact. Axl just spins it around, trying to pull out a positive turn in both cases. Sure, it's an opportunity to involve a new player in the recording process, but its also a necessity. Somehow, I get the feeling he could've lived without going through that in both cases, despite whatever outcomes it had.

Where does he do that?

I always took that to mean he was open to talking to Bucket about getting back together. He's so vague, there's no way to tell what that means.

He talks about issues that comes up after his departure. Axl doesn't want him back at that point if you look at his characterisation of him. If the issues revolve around his contributions, and it's got nothing to do with rehiring him, then I conclude it must be the recorded music.

I didn't realize you meant that something new had to be proven to have come from Axl.

What was the point of the whole breakdown then? To try to make Axl look bad?

Had to, should have.....he can do whatever he wants, but we still want it. That's kind of the point. A breakdown of what he's said may help people know what to expect. It's just the truth.

 Axl makes himself look bad. He may have a lot of fans here, but he's lost a lot more than he's kept throughout the years. He's to blame for that with all the bullshit. That's the truth. I wonder how many more fans he's going to lose in March?

How many did  he lose in December? By the looks of it, not many.

Me personally... after reading that "breakdown" of events and reading what axl was saying, I think The Music Axl Was making really sucked, And thats why we have never seen an album yet. HE didn't know how to create a record without the other members of Gn'R. He was a faliure at creating his own album without slash and CO.  It took him this long to finally create songs that don't suck. It took so long people got fed up with him and left (those musicians are to many to mention). But, now that it has taken him so long to make something that sounds decient He can release it. But IMO that's why it took so long.

And then add The lawsuits between Axl and the EX-members on top of that.

I also see a point in that observation after reading the breakdown. I don't think it really sucked, but it just was not what Axl envisioned and perhaps the band (at that point) could not deliver what Axl had in mind, or didn't sound right after recording it. I think now some kind of chemistry is finally happening, the band looks stable en things are rolling. That way things are really different now, they found the sound they want and are more confident to deliver things to the public. All this shit is just the way a creative process can work out and no artist can control things like that. When I make something creative I have in mind (I like to photoshop sometimes) it often turns out to be totally awfull and I start all over. It's just pieces of a puzzle that have to come together and the end result makes you proud. That's what GNR have been looking for the last couple of years (decade) and we're about to experience the end result!

we all have been through so much!

Like I said, when I read this originally I didn't know the whole thing was posted just to make Axl out to be an ass.

To me, if you think the album isn't coming anytime soon, then why didn't you just make a thread saying that?

Guys, why are you bothering so much about this whole thing, the man already told you - "if you're waiting for this album - don't, just live your lifes"...Besides, we all know this album will be just an average rock album, not a revolutionary one - like the appetite...let's face it, we already have probably the best 2 songs that will feature on the album - TWAT and Better...and to some extend - Madagascar...so...what can we say - decent songs, like VR's "Falling to pieces" for example...but nothing more...nothing that can be compared to any of the appetite songs, not even any of the Illusions songs...probably more like the spagetti stuff - absolute crap, and still we'll buy it cuz it's Axl...I know it sounds sad, but it's the truth, don't expect anything briliant from Axl anymore, he's done...Look at the shows they did in Europe last summer...I've seen most of these shows and it looked terrible, and then i put on my VCR the old stuff...like Ritz 88, or Rio 91, or Paris 92...as if I was watching a completly different band, the old stuff - awesom classic GnR!!! And this new thing...whatever they call it...Axl n Roses...it looks like somebody's nightmare...I mean look at these guys...Tommy Stinson, Bumblfoot?!?!? What is this, some kind of joke? The only one that could replace any of the old members was Buckethead...but he's gone..and I hope they will leave his solo on TWAT, cuz it's obvious that his guitar will be one of the very few good things on the album... And finally, look at Axl - this guy has nothing to do with the rebelious once man, one of the greatest frontmans of all times... This new Axl looks like a damn good businessman that knows wkat he's doing - money, a lot of money....and you?...so called fans...keep krying and dreaming of ChiDem...

What the fuck are you doing here then ?

To compare Maddy, Twat or Better to VR's Fall To Pieces ? Don't get that excited.

If you think the band is a joke, then why did you went to see them so often last summer then ? Do you like to waste your money ?

Yup, ronie, you're a disgrace.. Get a life.

good thread polluxlm : ok:

I thought the 'agressive electronica with guitars' plan for the 2nd album was interesting. You think with the decrease in songs since then that the plan and songs for that album have been dropped? Especially since electronica is out of style now?

I believe they have moved away from some material to concentrate on what they think is their best work.

I'll never understand that either.

Has the band got chemistry for new stuff or is it just the old stuff, plus the new few tracks played live.? As far as I can tell no evidence is there for the "creative imput" into the production and writing of new material.

As much as I love the band just stating facts as I see them.? Dizzy, Robin, Tommy and Richard may have had significant imput but the rest I don't think so , nor will do if the silence from anyone but Axl? is anything to go by. Its kind of ironic that Sebastian Bach has said more about it that anybody other than Axl, not that I believe that Seb is more important to Axl then anbody else, more that he was(?) more Rock n Roll than anybody else on the last tour...Something that Axl relates to perhaps

In the same way as other bands who get rid of / don't retain the services of original members, in my view still have the right to play as that particular band.? Guns n Roses is no different, Axl is without doubt the major creative force behind the band, if anything more so these days.? The other members do need to have their own signature on this baby, the question is how much have stamped their mark....

"That was a 'Robin song'. And I know that just PISSES some of you right off don't it?"

-Axl Rose directly after the first live performance of "Better".

Axl's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, which is getting on stage and being the greatest frontman of all time, for all of us and also for himself.   :beer:

I kind of think he's pretty good at it too.  : ok:

 : ok:
all for one and one for all.
Tommy said axl was trying to make the album democratically.(polluxlm I know your interest is axl but the interviews of other members would serve as references as well.)
We have to wait but judging from the handful of new songs and the band members words I'm very positive about that.


Who you mean by you all?
speak for yourself. Stalker type fans are nightmare for any band. :no:

My goodness, I already feel sorry for posting my opinion...you guys gonna eat me alive for that... look I'm sorry, I guess I exaggerated the whole thing a little... Axl is my favourite frontman of all times, I just said he's not as good as he used to be while in his prime 15 years ago...that's all...
Peace, long live Axl!

Okay, so I hate talking about hearsay, and I can't attest for how much of this is actually true but if it is...what I know of that went on in late 90s-early 00s may shed some light on what's been going on.

A friend of mine used to work for Geffen (and yes, don't most stories start with a "friend of mine?").  Back in the late 90s, they tried to put together a big metal tour with Korn, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, (all the nu metal bands)...which eventually became the Family Values Tour.  Well, they wanted GNR to be the headliner.  In part, with doing the tour, they wanted a new album to go with it.  So "supposedly" Axl delivered some demos to the label to hear.  Unfortunately, they hated the demos.  My friend who heard a couple of them, said they sounded like a cross between NIN and UYI.  He thought they sounded fine...they basically sounded like unfinished demos.  But the guys at the label wanted AFD.  And when the music wasn't close to that...they freaked out.  Obviously, Axl had been making some progress because in 1999 we did hear a finished "Oh My God" with the new band members.

If there is any truth to this, it would make sense.  Basically, Axl probably decided to start over. 

In 2002, the tour probably sidelined the creative process that needed a few months of work.

In 2004, Buckethead leaves the band, which more than likely made Axl want to re-record his parts and maybe add some new songs that didn't have his input.

In 2006, another tour interrupts the finalizing of the album...

Also, in 2006, we heard the first of the leaks...so if anything, something has been done.

We're close kids...very close!

Actually according to Del in the article "we arent supposed to talk about," They were trying to get Buckethead back right up until the New York shows. Thats why Ron didnt have a lot of time to learn all the material. What was it, he had like 2 weeks rehearsal with the band before the shows?

Has it ever occurred to your mind that your characterization of axl might be totally wrong?


Woops. I should have known that.  :-[  there can't be video/or audio.
Still, same difference.
It's just illogical to pick at those comments and decide how he really is. see the bold bit in the quote at the bottom of this post.
Actually in the articles you could easily find many things he's consistent in and steady at.

The paragraph in question says although the album could be done any day, it wasn't likely to be released anytime soon then. no bs. Not really contradicting. Just the reasons weren't mentioned.

after "blah blah blah", put "but, unfortunately" followed by the explanations he's given in other articles  and then put "therefore," right before "if you're...." to supply the gap and then you won't see the said contradiction anymore.


A few? No shit.  You read this when you posted right?


and again, note the line in bold.

Yeah, I know. But I don't think they tried getting him back at that time (04). By the sound of it it looks like he was let go.

My mind could be taking a walk off the map in it's characterization of him. But that's the nature of speculation. I never claim it as fact, it's just what I think at the moment.

But I am pretty sure that the reason for the album not coming out is mainly due to Axls personal issues, not some Deus Ex Machina hindering it.

"But I am pretty sure that the reason for the album not coming out is mainly due to Axls personal issues, not some Deus Ex Machina hindering it."
You're damn right it's Axl's personal issues...if it wasn't for these issues we could've had 3 albums from the new band so far...It's just Axl, he knows he's huge and he basically doesn't give a shit about anyone (like fans, managers, bandmates, ex-bandmates)...he acts like the superstar that he is which is ok, but please promiss not to whine again when he fails to deliver ChiDem this year, ok? Cuz the guy gave you the release date - March 6th, but he didn't specify the year...So keep your breath to... say March 6th 2025?!? Or like he said to the end of the world :peace:   

Didn't you just say a few posts ago that you think the world of Axl? Then here you are saying what a piece of shit he is again.

Make up your mind dude.

Yeah well, you're right...I'm just mad at Axl cuz I've been waiting for this album for so long that my friends are making fun of me everytime I say something about Axl or the new GnR...I guess I'll just have to wait...like everybody else... :beer:

Don't be mad at Axl. If anything, be mad at your friends. Of course we've all been waiting for this album for a long time now, but life goes on. It's not like my life's been in some sort of drought since the conclusion of Use Your Illusion II, which is frighteningly how a lot of people seem to be behaving. Like Chinese Democracy is some agonizing, yet-to-be-completed chaper in their lives. A lot of music has come and gone since the heyday of the Guns -- some good, most not so much. But when Chinese Democracy finally does hit I know it'll blow everyone away. Those of us who've been waiting a long damn time, like me and you, and those skeptics like your friends or that corner of the media that seems to hate Axl's every breath (I'm talking to you, Bob Guccione Jr.). Hang in there, just don't blame any sore feelings on Axl and co.  :beer:

I can understand how you feel. I have several friends who seem to get off on making fun of the whole GNR situation. To me it's just their loss in every sense of the phrase.

I love GNR for me, you know what I mean?