Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Horrah - after 5 years America is still holding people without trial, and torturing them too!

Some day someone's going to make an amazing film or book out of this - because it really is so tragic that it like some grand novel being played out

Holding someone without trial is abhorrent to any principles we SHOULD have, and to torture them as well.....beggars belief

...and where is the opposition to this concentration camp?

do they torture tehm every day.... how do they torture them?...... tell me more, i want to know the details

 Kidnap and Torture American Style (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKiR7jX8AT0)

Concentration camp??? ??? ??? We are not brutally killing innocent people.

check this out
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng

oh man ! good !
Terrorist 0 - 1 America




......

ok to wink and slc thanks for the links.... was not aweare of the first video that slc sent.. though its 48 mins long... and i will assume that it is a protracted video of hanous crimes that have not been followed up on....

now i know that SLC can see what my statement meant.... it was ?a fake shock and awe.... wink you have not been around enough to know the way i post.. but thanks for teh link, i was actualy looking for that article lol

my point is to contain the beast sometimes you must become the beast..... now with all that said with the behaviour of the terror's that we have seen would one ot be able to surmise that some of these treatments are a requirement for the safty and life uarentee for these prisoners

happy birthday gitmo,   you dont look a day over 3

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146

Prom, you do realise your ''point of view'' - would be used by Al-Quaeda.

How can losing our very humanity be worse than what the terrorists would do to us?

at least we would still have CES 2020


well lets just see if we were to sit idley by after every attack that has ever been done and not increase security or go and strike the enemy, they would surely know that we would not alter anything and they would be able to get away with it time and time again........ hell what if they bombed the royal family and killed 5 thousand people in london in one strike.... would you still sit by and let things happen?

if you did as you would have us do, would you enjoy the freedoms and benifits that you do today? We have the ability to argue and have opnions contrary to that of teh goverment because of where we live. Would you have our weomen banned from an education, and an eqaulity that they enjoy today? For if we sat by and done nothing that s what would happen..... there would be nothing left.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."   Edmund Burke

and for evil to triumph over good, all it takes is for good men to start doing evil things..............

2 wrongs never make a right.

Fawkin A right.

Your post is such naive nonsense I feel utterly absurd even repling

Grow up.

pot kettle black

You missed a period in your first sentence there. And just like a wooly on your shirt, I took care of it.

You're welcome.

Yay! Does it got Bruce Willis or Mel Gibson in it?

Seriously the film would suck, where's the diversity.. even hostel didn't happen in one place.. you got a thing about torture and films, don't you?

Excellent quote!

Ya know Mel Gibson would be a good choice..

Obviously your not familiar with irony....but no matter, my point (as you missed it) was that its so difficult to believe what America is doing that it might work better as a film.

fixt

Don't worry I got THAT.

But also in extreme circumstances you must go to the extreme.

i'd say in extreme circumstances you must go ... smart.

i dont get all crazy about guantanamo and the "war of terror" from bush only because it sickens me.
it's just doesn't work
it's a bad solution

Shouldn't your name be at the end of the quote now?

Good point! Guess I'm just too modest :-[

If the ends justiy the means wouldn't it just be easier to choose which ethnic group in Iraq is dominant and then 'evacuate (yes that old euphamism) the rest?

I hope you see how quickly a situation unravels when common sense and basic human decency is sacrificed.

Just because they are muslim doesnt make them aliens. They are human beings and i think there is such a degree of underlying rascism on this board and in the world in general people will say things they wouldn't dream of saying if white people were involved.

Is torturing suspects in your regular criminal cases valid? So why is it okay when those suspects are ''foriegn''?

I'm just saying that if I'd be fighting a war and lives could be saved by gaining information by torturing some high ranking enemy officer, I could live with it.

Then, what great secrets does just a field soldier know.

But what are we fighting for?

I'd say decency and freedom.

How can u win that through terror?

Izzy u have to admit though that u cant always turn the cheek when it comes to being attacked............ and dont swing this to Iraq as thats not a war on terror

i wonder how many people in guantanamo are actually guilty

I'd say independence. And have you ever heard a war about decency  :rofl:

Let's pick our guns n' rifles and storm Hustler!

Let's not fool ourselves. We're fighting for money.

And there is no such thing as a 'clean' war.

Partially but the main goal is securing resources - by occupying Iraq America now owns the oilfields and doesnt have to worry as much about OPEC's influence on the US economy

Like I said, it's about the cash.

It's a lot more complicated than that, the Iraq war has clearly had a negative effect on the US economy and gas prices have soared here, much higher than when Saddam owned the oilfields. It is certainly about oil, recycling oil dollars through the multinationals and arms industry while keeping the region at the right combination of ally/instability so that those countries never really develop independent wealth and prosperity for the benefit of their populace. It was easier during the cold war, but much harder to control now that "radical islam" is the demon, the intention of the Iraq war may have been "securing resources" for the benefit of the US economy but it failed on that front as well as every other front.

Well obviously its backfired...

But a plan to grab oil that fails is still a plan to grab oil....

We must also not forget that the 'Iraq Plan' wasn't just one group with one goal. There were alot of factors resonsible for starting this war. The arms industry who only see profit, the president who see votes and idealism, the government who sees career, the people who see justice, and so on.

Too many factions with too many different motivations is what made this utter mess.

Yup.

They are already introducing a bill in front of Iraqi government that will do just that: line up all the big oil companies to get their piece of that great real estate.

Not obvious. It was never an oil grab in the sense of annexing a country and stealing the oil so that Americans could fill up their SUVs for 10c/gallon. It's not at all clear that the oil grab part of it has even failed, as evidenced by SLC's post above, the oil companies are probably doing just fine. The failure part (from a US govt point of view) is that Bush's legacy will almost certainly be negative despite all the political capital gained because 9/11. I guess they were hoping for a grateful puppet Iraqi government to hold up for a few years until Bush and his oil company cronies were long gone from the political scene.