Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I don't know if this would ever happen but I would like the new guys to re record all of the old stuff because I think that Pittman on the Synth is fucking awesome I love how Axl added that element especially to Nov Rain.

Good thing you are not in charge.

it would be cool and different, but not asll the songs, that would have been taken years

Uhhhhh......  no thanks. :no:

I think it would be nice if they would concentrate on getting their new stuff out, at this point in time. :beer: :drool:

That's what's relevant at this point in time. :yes:

exactly, plus, i think that if new old stuff does appear, it will most likely be the rerecorded AFD. Now that is something I'd like to see surface... when the time comes.

fuck that dude, they are untouchable.

I know I love the old band I just ment it would be kinda of nice to hear the other songs recorded by the new guys.  Later down the road that is

what the hell is wrong with you?? so you want to re-record over the REAL band???  The new guys are great and I like the direction they are going in, but come on....leave the old records alone...

It would be cool to hear what it sounds like for sure. : ok: :beer:

The only problem I could see with it is, it may (or may not... ???) potentially cause more useless and unnecessary lawsuit(s) for Axl. :crying:

I think that's the last thing that Axl and GNR need to happen to them right now. :'(

More lawsuits only means one thing for us, the fans, no new kickass music being released, because lawsuits occupy all of Axls mind and only serves to stifle and fuck-up his musical creativity.

Which isn't a good thing for us and definitely unhealthy for Axl and GNR as well. :yes:

I just want to see a remix/remaster/whatever to the Illusions.  UYI I really needs it, almost as much as And Justice for All does.

I don't have problems with the mix on the UYI albums at all, but I agree the mix of and justice for all sucks, especially the drums

AGH!

Re-recorded?

Hmmm, no. :no:

Re-mixed and re-mastered with 21st century technology?

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease! :drool:

The technology that was used on the Illusions is not much different than what is availble today....as far as sound quality goes anyway...besides the sound on the Illusions is perfect,,,why does everyone always want to fuck with things that arent broken??  If you remember they remastered Nirvana's music on the 2002 greatest hits album and it SUCKED!! It lost the classic sound it had

I think the mix is bad. For example, imo, out of all of GN'R's albums, "The Spaghetti Incident?" sounds the best. I am not speaking of the music but of the sound. The way they somehow managed to keep that album both crisp and raw at the same time is what I think gives that album that sound that I love so much. Appetite & the Illusions just sound muffled to me. I mean, you can barely hear Izzy's guitar in the Illusions. Also, where's Duff powerful bass in You Could Be Mine? Being an audiophile myself, I strictly believe that these albums are in dire need of an upgrade in the sound department.

Even the demo for Better has better production than the Illusions (imo)...So, just imagine what sound engineers would be capable of doing with these three albums in 2007.

Except that the Illusions are the greatest rock album ever recorded. My opinion. More people will maybe agree years down the line. And yes, the production on And Justice for All sucks. Classic Metallica album, though.

I hear ya on the muffled part as far as UYI 1 goes, but I disagree with you on AFD and UYI 2....serioulsy though you cant touch classic recordings....its what that band as a whole agreed on when it was mixed....it is what it is.....Why would I want some random sound engineer fucking around with a record that was made by legends?? Kurt Cobain was probably spinnin in his grave when they "cleaned" up Nirvana's greatest hits....

Unlikely - I think he was cremated...

But no, they should not re-record any of their albums - way to live in the past!

I love UYI, however, if they did re,ix/remaster them, that'd rock.

-Remaster
-Remix
-Get Rid of the effects ("zap him" etc)
-Re-Record the drums w/ Frank or Brain

I really don't think this should be done.  There are TONS of GNR "tribute" albums out there.  I know this wouldn't be exactly that, but there's no need to change those albums...they're great, as is.

a rerecording of anything must never happen.
If it does, I will definately question why I'm being a GnR fan.

No way.  The new band needs to establish themselves with new material, not re-hash what the previous lineup did.  And if they're going to put that much studio time and effort in, it should be on new songs written by the current band.   There's far too much talent in this lineup for them to be a cover band trying to relive the glory days.  To do so would be insulting to both incarnations of the band.

What the hell is the point of re-recording an album? Maybe Robert Plant and Jimmy Page should re-record Led Zeppelin 2. Hell, maybe Van Hagar should have re-recorded Van Halen Diver Down.
I have a great idea. How about instead of re-recording a fucking album that doesn't need to be re-recorded, the band release a NEW album.
Christ.

Well said  : ok:

very well said : ok:

Concur

re-record = bad

HOWEVER:

Remastering UYI I would be amazing.

I think Izzy's guitars are really drowned out to the degree that it's hard to hear them, even when the left of the stereo is brought fowards (i've done my own editing on the tracks and STILL find his guitars drowned)
(This can be achieved by cutting out the mid and then boosting left speaker, or alternativley just doubling the left speaker into both channels)

Remaster-me-do!

I think re-recording anything is a terrible idea.
But a re-mix would be great. Get rid of all that terrible reverb on Matt's drums. The intro of You Could Be Mine would sound so much better without all that "stadium echo" added to the drums.

Pearl Jam remixed a few songs from Ten on their Greatest Hits CD, because they said all the reverb which was cool in the early 90s ruined the sound of the songs. I think the same is definitely true for the Use Your Illusions. Those CDs sound more 80s than Appetite does...

**********

I want the raw mixes that Slash has and loves.

I want a mix where I can hear both Izzy's and Slash's guitar.

I want a mix without all the bloated crap shit that Axl put into it like the orchestra in November Rain and all the sound effects.

I want UYI Naked, I want UYI Raw or whatever you wanna call it.

Luciano

**************

It would be more interesting to hear UYI re-recorded than AFD in my opinion-AFD dosen't need it, and Axl said he wasn't happy with UYI because you can hear a band dying on it-I think that is why a lot of it is not played on tour now-only 2 the band wrote and recorded NR and YCBM-with KOHD and LALD the covers, of course-it would be interesting, but at the same time I can understand not touching them, but it would be intersting to see the new band tackle estranged, things like that

Not a bad idea. I'd love to hear the new guys take on songs like The Garden & Estranged, but I think certain songs would be excluded from a re-recording, the same as with AFD dropping You're Crazy & Anything Goes.

Personally, I don't see songs like Garden of Eden, Get In The Ring, Shotgun Blues, or My World making the cut.

Maybe those four, could be replaced with re-recordings of Sway, Back In The U.S.S.R., Down On The Farm, and a Tommy Stinson-charged You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory.

I think Guns should keep looking forward, at least for now.

And I think the problem with And Justice for all is Jason Newsteds bass playing.

If anything, maybe they can play them live at some point.  For the love of God, don't re-record anything...new material, please!

I agree. I would only want it if it didn't stop the progress of new material.

I wonder why Perfect Crime never returned...

I so don't agree to re-recorded versions... yeah a little 'cosmetic surgery'. Coma live sounds fucking great and Nasty. But it loses that slightly in the studio version. Cut out all the over dubs/effects and stuff that doesn't need to be there.  And also would be nice to hear the Versions prepared for the GN'R Pinball machine. 

20th anniversary versions must be on the cards....i'd hope. a chance to slightly tweak those classic - awsome - albums?   

i find nothing wrong with how there recorded

Bands that go back and re-record their past glories are either a) totally out of fresh ideas or b) looking to reclaim past glories by riding the coattails of the last thing their fans actually liked.

The new GnR is neither of those things. I'm sure they wouldn't be regarded as a big joke for having re-recorded more old material than actual new material.

Yeah, great idea.

If they ever re recorded the illusions, id want them done with the original band, witgh steven on drums, gnr were never the same once steven left.

Heh, Yeah they were better. GN'R got better as time went on. Every album they put out was 10 times better than the last (Well besides TSI but that does not really count cause its a cover album)

They've already re-recorded Appetite.

They've just got no current plans to release it.

You guys do know that the new band re-recorded Appetite right ?

Yes, when they were learning to play together and getting used to the Appetite material, most of which is part of their current set - re-recording seemed to have a purpose behind it rather than it simply being something to do - I doubt very much that the intention was to "make Appetite better" than it originally was.?

In my opinion, the new GnR are well past that point now and have become a pretty well-oiled machine.  From here on out, I hope the focus is on recording new material...?

I hope they re record a select few songs from the old records and release them as b sides for the singles from cd.
                               

Without reading through most of the posts so far, I would like to say NO.

Reasoning is that it's been done. The only reason ANYONE is asking for it is because we are starved for new stuff but to canibalise the old stuff is wrong. We will probably never hear the studio version of the new band doing AFD.. maybe thats for the best. For now though, fuck the past.. I'm enjoying it as it is, I'm looking forward to the future.

Cheers

Scree

Apparently not. Some of these comments are bashing GN'R, and they don't even realize it.


But if a band is simply going to learn the album for concert shows, why re-record? Why not just learn the songs like any other band, when they practice their set?

I don't know man. If you were around when the Illusions came out you would realize that changing them would be like changing the past. I think of how it would have sounded stripped down like Appetite, but then it wouldn't be the bastion of decadence, excess and ego that it is. We were lucky to get those albums in the first place, just like we'll be lucky to hear CD when it gets released. Like someone said earlier in this post, release the raw demos or what not, but fuck re-recording a classic.

I was around then, and I think the albums are fine. It doesn't change the fact that I might want to hear what the current band sounds like in the studio on these tracks.

Wouldn't you prefer some new music rather then this GNR covering the OLD GNR? They already get shit for playing so many old songs..... I just want Chinese Democracy to be released so that they can play ALOT of there new material and cut back on the old stuff.

This is a different band, and I want to hear their stuff.

even axl said it's not perfect. listen to estranged on some stereos. you can't even hear axl's voice in estranged sometimes.

I want Chinese fuckin' Democracy

Obviously, I'm totally guessing here, but as a musician myself, I think recording offers a few advantages to a new band.  First, practicing live is one thing, but it's great to be able to objectively step back and listen to your own parts and how they mesh with the other players...much easier to do when listening to a recorded playback than trying to make those judgements while playing live and/or practicing.   Second, going into the studio to record can be another beast entirely in terms of personalities, how everyone gets along throughout the process, etc...it can be quite a test at times.  The studio is a great way to see if members can survive one another, and how well they can come together to get the job done...

Holy shit, soon we'll be having more of those "We want AFD2000" threads...

If so, they're not going to come from me.  Again, the last thing I want to see is the current band re-recording old material.  I just think that a band can become a much tighter, more functional unit as a result of working together in the studio.  I can see why re-recording AFD would have had its benefits.  That purpose has been served, though, and it's time to focus on CD and new material.       :beer:

What a LUDICROUS statement!  The old Metallica albums are mixed badly ... I will say that.... But the Illusions albums were fucking brilliantly mixed!  Perfect levels etc.

Man, don't be so crazy!

Mixed well yes. EQ'd well, not so much. There's like NO mids on those albums at all.

I dont think Axl will ever re-record any of the old stuff and release it because then he will just be putting money in the old members pockets and I cant see that happening.

Not rercord them, but I would love to hear the new band play a select few songs from the UYI albums on tour.

I see this as more of a possibillity.   They all ready play a great deal of it live and rumors were of civil war being practiced.

I guess the best bet for you to hear the new members rerecord the old stuff would be for this new band to put out a live dvd, with some older stuff on it.  I can see that happening

Look lets be honest, its bad enough we dont have the original line-up, it would be even worse if the new band does anything to fuck with the old stuff....leave it alone and move forward...they are not going to make Appetite or the Illusions any BETTER...they are classics!!  I support the new band and think they are great guys and doing a great job, I have seen them in concert 6 times, but lets be honest, everyone really wants the original line-up....every arena on the last tour would have sold out in 30 seconds if it was the original band...that is what the people want...why would the new band piss people off by fuckin around with classic tracks...LEAVE IT ALONE!!!  The new songs are great and I love the direction they are going in,, they dont need the old songs,, the new ones are future classics....

I hate this idea.
I have NO interest in a rerecorded AFD either.

This isn't any comment on the new band, or GnR in general either. It's jsut that, to me an album is a snapshot of a precise time. Just like a photo album. So regardless of whether it's good bad or ugly, it is what it is and it should stay that way. Anything more than the mild cleaning up of bad recording sounds (ie tape hiss on real old stuff) is not of interest to me.  So yeah, whatever might be imperfect on UYI is still part of the real UYI.

Reverb on the drums? That reflects the time it was recorded.
Izzy's place in the mix? That reflects the decisions the people in the room made at the time.
I don't want some hindsight reinterprtation. That's not a real album to me.

I mean, if you have photos in your photo album from ten years ago, and you think your hair looks shit, you don't get dressed up in the same gear, and reinact the photo do you, because it could never recapture the reality of the moment.

Also, the times I've heard this, it has almost always resulted ina  recording that can't touch the original, regardless of the quality of the recording techniques or the players' abilities.

I have some sympathy for smaller bands re-recording a best-of when they don't own the original recordings and the label isn't going to put one out, but even then, it's pointless artisticly IMO.

Yep. It's not that the 'grander' side of the music is 'overproduced', it's that literally the audio at times is overproduced with way too many vocals & guitars.

KOHD. The studio cut I think has shown it's age horribly. The three vocal tracks throughout the song sound bad, and i'm sure that narriation would be lifted now if it was re-done.

i agree with anyone who says not to release the new recordings. if the new band rerecorded it fine, but i wouldnt release it if i was them. that would totally destroy the image of the original band in my eyes. i grew up with the original lineup from 1986 to the early 90s and went through every step with them being a new band. they can play those songs all they want live and rerecording them is fine, but i think releasing the rerecording album would be a huge mistake. those albums are nostaligic and shouldnt be touched.

Yah was it your idea to remake Hitchcocks Pyscho?

sure, no prob. i'll tell axl to get right on it...

I myself would love to see George Lucas remaking the remakes of the original Star Wars trilogy remakes.There are BETTER CGI gimmicks available now so surely they'd turn even better!

Christ how did this become a thread, does AXL get shit done fast??? No then why and the fuck would he re record and album?? Christ I am already wondering how long it will take an album to come out after chinese democracy?? ?He lost vital younger years making this album.? I love it, its gonna be great but come the fuck on.? This could be it for AXL after CD enjoy it when it comes out

once GNR gets over that hump, it will be smooth sailing  :yes:

No, he wants the NEW band to re-record over the OLD band.

************
You mean AXL's new band?  :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Because the band that recorded Appetite for Destruction and stormed the world from 1986 to 1991 is Guns n' Roses, wheter you like it or not. There is nothing you can do to change it.

And this "new" band is just Axl's band playing GNR songs, and then again there is just nothing you can do to change it.
 :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Luciano
************

that's just so beyond stupid i can barely comment on it.


also - i don't want them to re-record anything, because the Use Your Illusions are complete works of art, as is Appetite.  Re-recording them, erasing what past members have done changes it into something else - not the albums we love.  It's as bad as George lucas going back and digitally altering Star Wars to make it better, it's a work of art that, once completed, really shouldn't be tampered with.

plus it would take SO GODDAMN LONG, i want new material, ass-kicking, beautiful new material - which is nicely on it's way, so I'm very happy with the state of the Guns right now.

Wow. How completely original! To post something about how the current members of the band aren't really Guns N' Roses!

My thoughts exactly.

***********
My thoughts, there is nothing original about it.

Oh, and I was not answering/talking to any of you guys, I was answering the guy who wrote this:


Luciano
***********

Just as much the same you can't get over that the entity that is Guns N' Roses is moving on without the guys from the 1986-91 days.

Although Izzy is being welcomed for the ride!

When you post something idiotic in public, you can expect a public response.

*******
Oh, this is brand new to me.
Guns n' Roses is an entity now?
Wow.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Or maybe I understood it wrong. Maybe you just were trying to say that GNR is like Menudo. New guys replace the old ones and the "entity" moves on. Is that right?
 :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
No, I guess not.
I guess you just think that Guns n' Roses is Axl, right?
Got ya!  :yes:
*******


*******
Thanks for the idiotic word! I was missing felling 11 years old! It was so cool back then! I wish I could be like you. I guess you are having a great time, huh?
*******

Luciano

Guns N' Roses was Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven.
Then Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Matt.
Then Axl, Slash, Duff, Matt, and Gilby...and so on.  If you can't accept change, then don't listen to the new stuff (or the Illusion albums, for that matter).  Based on your profile text (Axl-Izzy-Slash-Duff-Steven!), I'm guessing you cannot accept change. 

Do we think GNR is just Axl? 

No.

Most of us think it was all of the iterations I listed above (and those I didn't list, as well).  Most of us think GNR IS Axl, Tommy, Ron, Robin, Richard, Dizzy, Chris, and Bryan.  This is dependent on the idea that time only moves in one direction.  If it moves in both, GNR simultaneously is the current lineup, all previous lineups, and all future lineups.     


I truly have no idea what you're talking about.  However, I do support your efforts to be like me.  I am having a great time, thanks.  :beer: 

Guns N' Roses WAS Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven/Matt & Dizzy

Guns N' Roses IS Axl, Robin, Ron, Richard, Tommy, Frank, Dizzy, Chris, and sometimes Izzy (kind of like A-E-I-O-U and sometimes Y, with vowels. That's GN'R 2006 baby!)

**********

Do you like to change?
How about replacing your mother by the nicest woman in the world?
How about replacing your brother by the coolest guy?
Some people are just not replaceable. Specially when it comes to musicians. Izzy, Slash and Duff fill in that category.
So, as you can see, it is not about "accepting change" or not.

Guns n' Roses was the best band in the world.
Axl's band (NEW GNR) is just a good/great band (as you like), and it is good/great BECAUSE of Axl.
If Axl Rose was not singing on it, I am SURE 90% of the people here on this very board wouldn't bother to listen to it.
I am sure I wouldn't!
But I am always be listening to whatever Axl does.
Because he is so good.
But that don't make the other people around him just as good.
And that does not blind my judgment over the music that he is singing.
Because he has set the highest possible bar in Guns n' Roses.

*****************


**********

Apparently neither Steven nor Matt are irreplaceable...I'd be interested in knowing how you make that distinction.  Is it because Steven was replaced, but you like UYI, so it's ok that he was replaced?  Why can you accept that change, and not others? 

Also, regarding the idea that this applies especially to musicians, should AC/DC have not added Brian Johnson, after Bon's death?  I mean, Bon was a musician, right?  So he's irreplaceable.  And Back in Black should have never been recorded.  Correct?  If you truly believe so, then that's fine, but that opinion is destined for the trash bin of history.  I'm sure a reasonable number of people thought so at the time, but they have long since been silenced. 

Musicians are replaceable.  Whether the replacements are better than the original members is a matter of opinion.  The extent to which replacements are valid pieces of a band's history is decided after the fact, by the quality of the music they produce and the willingness of fans to accept them, rather than by hastily conceived ideas that this member or that is "irreplaceable."     

I can't believe I just spent the last 14 minutes reading this!

So you would rather move backwards than forwards?

Hear old songs re-recorded, rather than hear new great songs GNR are going to putout on 'Chinese Democracy'?

...some people on this board are crazzzzzzy

I think Steven is NOT replaceable because I like him so much, he is the best drummer in my book. But somehow I also think that he IS replaceable because Guns n' Roses sound was not based on his drumming. If you put another guy on drums, but if you keep the core of the band (Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff) you still have Guns n' Roses AND the Guns n' Roses sound - at least on live performances. I actually LIKED when Fred Courey replaced him in 1987, those gigs with Fred SOUND great, THAT is Guns n' Roses sounding great with another drummer.

About Matt, I don't like him a lot, but I think he was OK in 1991. Izzy said best about him. He can be a "better" drummer, his techinique may be better, but he doesn't have the groove that Steven has. Anyway, to be sincere, I think Guns n' Roses would sound great even with some shitty drummer like Ringo Star on drums.


Bon is NOT replaceable for the simple fact that he is unique. Nobody can duplicate him. But he was dead and Brian Johnson came in and he just sounded GREAT and Back in Black is right up there with Appetite as one of the best rock records of all time and I am sure you agree with that.


You didn't understand me correctly. I didn't say musicians are not replaceable. I meant SOME musicians are not replaceable and among them I put Axl, Izzy, Slash and Duff. Maybe, just maybe, you could replace Duff, but in my book, if you don't have Axl, Izzy and Slash, you do NOT have Guns n' Roses. That is why, for me, Guns n' Roses was over when Izzy left in 1991. Not just because Gilby totally destroyed the guitar intertwining that was the coolest thing on GNR but also because the band became a circus with two hundred additional musicians.

I say some musicians are replaceable and some are not. I say AXL, IZZY and SLASH ARE NOT REPLACEABLE. Nobody can write songs and play like them!


Sure, no doubt.


I agree with you when you say that "The extent to which replacements are valid pieces of a band's history is decided after the fact, by the quality of the music they produce". Right now, in my opinion, the music that Axl's new band is producing is like "half good" - Better and Chinese Democracy are, in my opinion, the only genuienely CATCHY tunes of the nine or ten new songs that we have heard so far. The other songs are really NOT SO GOOD, and the best thing about them all is Axl voice and the vocal melodies that he created. Also, the sound has NOTHING to do with the rock n' roll that was the main foundation of GNR sound. That is why I don't like this band and that is why it is NOT Guns n' Roses and will never be. When Brian Johnson replaced Bon Scott, AC/DC was stil AC/DC, for the good (Back in Black, Ballbreaker, For Those About to Rock, etc) and also for the bad (they did some shitty records in the eighties like Blow up yout Video). But when Axl gets new musicians and creates a whole different sound, he should just ASSUME that it is NOT Guns n' Roses and move on. He can't fool me. His band is not Guns n' Roses and, like I said many times, even the rocks at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean know that!

I don't agree with you when you say that "The extent to which replacements are valid pieces of a band's history is decided after the fact, by (...) the willingness of fans to accept them". I don't give a fuck about what "fans" think. If the new Axl band sells 400 million records and make a 10 year world tour with 50 thousand people at every show, that won't matter. What matters is the quality of the music, and THAT is always a matter of PERSONAL TASTE.

Luciano
***********

I didn't read through all five pages but having the new band re-record UYI's is the dumbest thing I ever heard.  I wouldn't mind if they remastered them and turned up the Rythm guitars and made them sound a little more raw..

I totally agree with this, besides, in the case of re-recording the illusions, the responsability of the guitars would rely on Bumble and Richard, specially in the solos, because it took so damn long for Finck to learn the appetite that i can't imagine him playing estranged or coma, he barely plays November Rain and You Could Be Mine's solo, although the riff with wah-wah ain't bad.

Funny how some of you mention replaceable musicians, want some names? Josh, Freese, BH, Paul TObias and now even Brain, cause according to many of you on these boards Frank is better... so there you go, reaplaceable and better, maybe, the essence, never.

Take care!! :peace: :peace:

Well having read the thread. I don't think that UYI 1 & 2 should be re-recorded. Why ? They are fine the way they are. Now maybe re mixing them might be alright.might make izzy feel like his stuff is on the albums, because as has been said his stuff isin't easily heard.

Appetite shouldnt have been re recored and the new bands version shouldnt see the light of day.The reason that album sounds so good, is because of the songs firstly and the sound of the album.  The band that recorded it made the sound, re recording it i believe would lose some of that sound and make it less of an album

dont count on it