Here Today... Gone To Hell!

The people that have been here for years, go ahead and tell ms beta . She thinks that i am an axl hater. LOL

Btw I dont think a hater would have been posting this article I wrote for the past 4 years everywhere on the net.

Axl Rose, the man, the myth, the legend. Is 2006 finally his year?





Like him or not, Axl Rose is one interesting person and most often he is misunderstood. Some people like to think of Axl as an A hole, but that is just because Axl likes to keep to himself and likes his privacy. Axl does not crave attention or look to make headlines, he gets that with out even trying and sometimes I think that embarrasses him. Just him going out for a steak dinner makes headlines, not many other people in music get that, but Axl does.

A lot of Gn?r fans get upset at Axl because still not given us a release date, but he has said a few times (mtv vmas being the most recent) that Chinese Democracy will be released this year some time in the fall.? November looks to be the target date since Richard Fortus has told fans the album will be release after the US tour has started (which officially starts mid October.? That is something Gn?r did with the Illusions. This album will make or break his career since it is his first album with out the old band.? ?Axl needs to release the best ?in your face rocker? on the album as the first single.? If the first single is huge then the album will have no problem selling and being huge.

A lot of old Gn?r fans like to think the new songs we have heard so far are not as good as the old bands songs, but that is not the important question. The important question is, are the new songs as good or better than the current mainstream songs on the radio today? Judging from what is currently on the radio and judging from what was on the Mtv VMA?s the answer to that is YES. I think Madagascar, IRS, the Blues and Chinese Democracy, There Was A Time, Catcher in the Rye and Better are just as good if not better than a lot of the music on the radio right now, and those songs are not even the ?big guns? that Axl has in store for us.? Better is a style we have never heard before by gn?r and could be a huge hit once we get the studio version.

The four demos we have heard are very different and very good. Better mixes pop with metal, while IRS is a mix of old gnr and industrial music.? ?There Was A Time is very November Rainish and Catcher in the Rye (which features Brian May on lead guitar) is a lot like something from the UYI?s and has a Beatles feel to it.? ?IRS actually charted for radio spins, which is a first for a leaked demo.? It also got the most votes for one stations cage match in the history of that station.? What is so great about the demos is most people have a different favorite which just shows how diverse this album is going to be and is going to appeal to a wide verity of people. This album will have something for everyone, from the old school fans, to new fans.

For those who think Axl cannot sing any more just needs to listen to these demos, he has never sounded better. If anyone has heard him live from the Hammerstein shows, RIR or the Euro tour know that his vintage raspy voice is also back. His voice has been getting better and better with each show.

He has a set of amazing and underrated players backing him up and they have all worked very hard on this album. The few people that have heard the album have all said how great or amazing the songs are, so if CD is promoted the way it should be it could be the best album of 2006. Axl and his new Gn?r could be on top of the music world again.? Just looks at the VMAs this past year. The killers headlined, if gn?r played this year they easily would have been the closing act.

Chinese Democracy is going to be like nothing we have heard before from Guns n? Roses.? Tommy calls the new songs ?earth shattering? and Dizzy has said the songs will exceed our expectations.? Those statements make me wonder how amazing this album could very well be.? Brian May and Tommy have both talked about how outrageous/amazing Axl's voice is on the album.? ?Tommy also alluded that the rockers on CD will be like old gnr, while Zakk Wylde said the songs he heard from CD sounded like AFD on steroids.? Axl?s lyrics are said to have deeper meaning than on past albums, we have gotten a taste of that with some of the demo leaks.

Chinese Democracy is going to showcase the new bands diversity and could still be talked about years from now much like AFD is still proclaimed as being just as fresh today as it was 15 years ago.? CD is said to be a melting pot album by Axl and I think we will be able to tell what each members input was to each song.? I think each song will have each member?s trademark, something they can all be proud of.? I am not saying this album will be the best album ever, but I believe it?s going to something that will inspire discussion for years to come.? and not only will it serve to cement Axl's legendary status as the ultimate rock star, it will preserve the dignity of the guns n roses name in the annals of rock history


Axl has had a few false starts over the past 6 years, but it is now time for Axl to take his throne back as the best front man in rock, others have tried but none have even come close to having Axl stage presence or aura. Axl holds his destiny and legacy in his hands. He can either be the huge star he used to be or he can just disappear again. Either way Axl Rose will always be one of music great mysteries. He had it all in the late 80s and early 90s and he can have it all again if he wants it, he just has to release the album and everything will fall into place. Rock has been missing something for quite some time and that something is Axl Rose.

oh yeah move here where no one is going to see it lol

You are the biggest GNR supporter in the history of the internet.

 :smoking:

I see it David :smoking:

Good read. Nice to see someone make an effort.

You are such a huge Axl supporter that I cry blood every time I read a post of yours.

I have to vouch for Dave, when he has sex he puts a picture of Axl on the headboard. :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

No You are wrong sir.He puts the pic on the chicks face.

Chick?

What you think it's a dude instead?Hell it could be both .

hey dave, no need to explain how big of supporter you are dude. old gnr and new gnr have left their fans down a million times worse so they can keep their mouth shut when it comes to blame the fans for being negative. 

You're such a big fan that you post lies with your friend being the source.

Dave secretly hates Axl, is what's really going on here.

Oh here we go again. The fact that it was deleted from this forum proves the info that my friend (steve a long time axl fan and poster on these boards) got was legit. When every anything is BS on this forum it gets locked, when its true and has to be censored it gets deleted. I love how people think we are stupid on this board.

Like I said the info came from the venue itself from the fire marshal and head of security. Why would they lie? You can claim what ever you want but if Axl does something wrong I am going to call it on it. I wont try to cover it up like this board does.

The fact that the story of what happened that night from the gnr camp kept changing proves their side was not being truthful.? Betas info is still different from what the gnr camp told the press release. Also wasnt the first reason given by the gnr camp that the fire marshal wouldnt let gnr use pyro and that is why it was cancelled, then it was later because they were going to fine gnr if their fans smoked in the venue? So which was it?

I have more cred on this board than most people including? you. I dont bullshit or make stuff up. This board is known for hiding the truth and covering things up. Just look at the merck letter. Oh the irony, merck used to ask to deleted the whole story and now his side of the story is getting censored. Gotta love it.

Also when ever I have stated something in the end its always proven true. Case and point the other night when I said that Axl didnt write that letter to the fans. Then the next day merck comes out and pretty much said the same thing because he wrote the template for the letter.  But of course me saying that it doesnt seem like Axl wrote that letter got deleted. Now why would that get deleted and just not shot down? Because its the truth but not the truth that this board wants everyone to  believe.

I love how you think you're more important than everyone else just because you have a high post count.

Unfortunately for you, that isn't true.

I have more cred on this board than you ever will and I have been around MUCH MUCH longer than you. You just think you are the shit because you are a mod and that doesnt mean shit esp on this board.

Wrong again dave.

I know I'm the shit because I don't lie and I don't worry about people thinking I'm cool.

Again where is the proof that I lied? Once again the source was the fire marshal, and he said Axl never left NYC and cancelled the show. That is legit as it gets.

Prove Axl left NY and was there in Maine. Like I said, the fact that it got deleted proves how true it is, because gnr managment didnt want it shown on this board. Why would the fire marshal lie and said Axl never left NY?

Perhaps because he's an ego-tripping liar?

Much like some other people.

Being a gnr fan you know no one has an ego bigger than Axl. As for an ego trippin liar, the only people on here with egos are the mods that feel the need to deleted the truth and get both sides of the stories. Also, the real truth of the Maine thing is somewhere in the middle of what both the fire marshal and the gnr camp have said. But I am still waiting for? you to prove that Axl left NYC and was in Maine the night of the show.?

Well, keep waiting.


I don't need to prove anything to you.  Knowing the truth is generally enough for me.

Yep cop out, the fact is you cant prove that the fire marshal was not being truthful, you dont know the truth. No one knows the real truth, but the thing is this board has never posted both sides of the story. You just let the gnr side be posted. Thus the merck letter not being posted here. Which is not even bashing the band but it just shows that Axl didnt write the letter so you guys wont let it be posted.?


Here is something you should really understand. Just because its not allowed to be posted on this board, doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Remember that.

Oh btw do tell me this. How does this info I got make me a liar even if its not true? Is mister on a liar when he gets bad info, which he has? A LOT.

Were merck and axl liars when they said that CD would be out this year?

The answer is no.

Yes Dave, the RS article was true. We really did get an album in November.

Yes, Tommy really threw his bass at Axl. I mean, we removed that article too.  ::)

Those were removed simply because they were not true!

You're way too interested in conspiracy theories.



Portland is one hour away by plane from New York. If it was cancelled at 5-6PM, and GN'R goes on stage at 11PM. Do you think Axl actually had to leave New York at that time, even if the show was gonna go ahead?

So your whole arguement fails.




/jarmo

I'm 60% sure Dave likes GN'R.

Jarmo give me a break.? Just because some people make up shit about gnr does not mean everyone does. Merck and Axl said numerous times CD will be out this year. Axl said it at the VMAs. So your argument falls apart right there.

Nice try. The gnr camp has never been 100%? truthful with their fans on anything that is a fact and their track record.? ?I am not intresting any conspiracy theory just the whole truth but this board makes it easy since you censor anything that gives both sides to the story. So all the times that you backed merck saying he was telling the truth and now when he is no longer with Axl you are going to censor his side of the story. Yeah ok Jarmo.

And know you are not even denying that Axl never left NYC, so? you are pretty much admitting that the fire marshal was correct.? ?:rofl:

The fact is you stuff you have claimed are lies before have shown to be true weeks or months later. Like that kid you and the other mods and merck called a liar when he said Buckethead quit the band. Then of course we all found out it was true and you, the other mods or merck never apolizged or admitted? you were wrong and that person was right. That is the problem? you can call people liars all the time then when its found true there is never mention of it because? you dont want to lose face.

Just like the so called letter that axl wrote. I said it doesnt seem like he wrote it esp bc it was not signed W Axl Rose then the next day the Merck letter confirms Axl did not write it, bc merck already started the template for the letter before he left. You and the other mods and beta called me a liar yet there is proof what I said was the truth, yet you are buring that truth and still not admitting that you were wrong.

Yeah my argument really falls apart. Like I said you can try to bury the truth all you want but the truth is out there and everyone knows that the truth is, even if this board does not want to admit it or post it.

I'm 100% sure he just never shuts up, it's always on and on with the same BS

I can not find a connection between Axl not being there few hours before and show cancellation... ????

I don't know that anyone ever claimed that Axl was there...

For anyone that wants to know what happened it can be read on gunsnroses.com, for others... I don't care.

edit: some thinks their truth is bigger truth and nothing will ever change it...

The fire marshal told steven basically the reason that the show was cancelled was because axl called in and the ticket sales were poor and that they would not be allowed to drink on stage because of the pyro.

The gnr camp said it was bc they would not be allowed to use pyro at all and then said its bc any fan caught smoking gnr would be fined 1000 per person or something like that. 

I moved on until ADZ felt like bring up the maine bullshit again.
HE was just pissy because I said axl didnt write the letter to the fans and he jarmo said I was full of shit and lying then mercks statement backed up what I said and that axl didnt write the letter because merck layed the blue print for the letter.

Axl rarely writes his press releases he just approves them. I dont know why the mods on here find that so hard to believe. Merk gave examples of what was going to be released, and guess what, it would have said axl rose speaks, then it would have said just merck did and people would have assumed axl wrote them when he didnt.

Understand?

I must be stupid or what... I still don't understand what you are trying to prove:


so what if Axl never left NYC? what does it prove?  ::)

The reason that gnr cancelled the portland maine show is not the real reason. The did not cancel it because gnr would not going to be allowed to use pyro. The pyro was approved. The other reason gnr gave was because they claimed any gnr fan caught smoking the venue would fine guns n roses. The fire marshal also said that was not true.? That is the point. Steven who is a long time poster and huge gnr fan talked to the fire marshal and head of security, and I posted the reason why the show wasa cancelled well before the gnr press release. The mods on this site called me a liar for giving the side of the fire marshal. And instead of just saying that is not what gnrs camp said is the reason and moving on, they call me a liar and delete the posts about it.

Then that whole maine thing was over with and ADZ decided to bring it up again and start that shit all over again. I thought mods were not supposted to do that?

Axl never left NYC. So what?

As I said, even if the show was happening, he probably would've still been in New York at 6PM. There's nothing weird about that. They go on at 11PM, so he could've left at 8PM, and still make the show.

Try to understand that.


You're a big fan, you truly show that by constantly questioning the news that comes directly from the band.

You believe everything the other side says, people who have an agenda. People who obviously want to make themselves look good.

You really think everybody else is always telling the truth about GN'R? You think somebody is gonna say "yeah, we wouldn't let them play here"? You really think these people want to get that kind of attention?


The fact is that things change. If we were told Buckethead was still in the band, he probably was at that point. So he left a few months later. Does it make it a lie?

If I tell you "it's sunny outside" and it rains tomorrow, are you gonna call me a liar?


The fucking template was signed "W. Axl Rose" and Axl signs his own letter Axl Rose. So you assume the temple is the way Axl signs his own letters? Yeah, that's logical.

I don't sign my full name on these posts, so I guess they're not written by me....  :nervous:




/jarmo

for anyone who has been around these boards for a few years to doubt dave is a big axl fan would be insane. dave is my hero! :smoking:
keep up the good work! :beer:

Again Jarmo ?your logic fails you. Out of all the bullshit gnr stories and what others ?have said about them how many have I not taken the gnr side of things? That would be TWO.

And those just happen to be ?the maine and the axl letter thing. And why? Well the maine thing someone that posts here called me and told me he talked to the fire marshal and head of secuity and told him the reason. Also, its been widely reported about the no liquior on stage not that gnr would not be allowed to use pyro.

And the axl letter there was tons of red flags that made it seem like he did not write the letter and I made that observation. So instead of just saying I think you are wrong and that axl wrote, you delete my post about it. That is the major problem ?you censor people that disagree. Also, by merks letter (who you held his word as gold unless last night) backed up what I

So tell me again how I contstantly question anything when I dont question 95% of the stuff that comes from the gnr camp. I only question the thigns that dont make sense or fit.

I just find it funny that I am not a supporter of axl now because i questioned a few things that he has done in the 20 years I have been an Axl fan.

this is not my war, but for anyone interested go look for what BBF said yesterday about recent happenings... the truth is out there. over and out!

Widely reported. Wonder where they got the info from? Maybe the same source as your source?

Could it be?

You failed to address the question whether or not you think these people could actually tell your friend a story that's not 100% true in order to put the blame on others...




He wrote it himself.

I can ask you to post a thread on the show at Madison Square Garden. Ask you to talk about how you felt walking in, waiting for the band to come on, what you thought afterwards and so on. So then you post the thread.

Would it be ok for me to say "Dave didn't write it himself! He's a fucking liar!"?



/jarmo

Where?

Jarmo I find it funny what I said the night of portland on the boards that got deleted was what was reported in maine paper the ?next day, they listed the same reasons I got from steven that night.
And dont say the papers got it from me since that nite ?my posts about what really happened were deleted in seconds.

And Jarmo and them all call me a liar
now read what was posted the next day in the portland paper


Albert Aull of the Portland Press Herald reports that GUNS N' ROSES and state fire marshals disagree on who is to blame for the rock band's decision to call off its show at the Cumberland County Civic Center Monday night (Nov. 6).

The band, through a press release issued Tuesday, blamed the decision on a pair of overzealous state fire marshals.

Nelson Collins, supervisor of licensing and inspections at the State Fire Marshal's Office, said he was doing his job when he let band managers know performers wouldn't be allowed to drink alcohol out of bottles on stage.

Collins said GUNS N' ROSES' management objected.

GUNS N' ROSES canceled its performance at the civic center at 5:30 p.m. Monday, 2 1/2 hours before the show was scheduled to begin.

The decision angered fans, many of whom blamed the band's lead singer, Axl Rose, who has called off shows before.

Collins and another fire marshal, Robert Cadigan, "made it impossible for the band to perform their show to the usual high standards that their fans deserve," according to a press release from the band's management agency.

The statement implies the two attempted to subject GUNS N' ROSES to rules that were not applied to CLAY AIKEN and GREEN DAY, two acts that have recently performed at the civic center. The management agency did not identify a specific rule it thought was unfair.

Collins said he believed a prior dispute over the band's pyrotechnics show had been settled and the alcohol restrictions were the main issue before the show.

He said GREEN DAY agreed to the alcohol rule and CLAY AIKEN did not have a pyrotechnics show, so fire marshals weren't needed at his performance.

It is illegal for entertainers to drink alcohol while they work in Maine, Collins said. The fine for violating the rule is $250, he said.

Collins said fire marshals, who would report alcohol violations at a concert, haven't had issues with bands objecting to the law in the past.

He said he tried to convince the band's management during a midafternoon meeting Monday to have the musicians limit their alcohol consumption to backstage. He said the band's managers balked at the idea.

Rose was not in Portland for the discussions between inspectors and the band's managers, Collins said. He travels by plane while on tour and wasn't scheduled to arrive in Portland until Monday night, civic center General Manager Steve Crane said during an interview a little more than an hour after the cancellation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what I reported ?from the info I got that nite before anything was in the papers was pretty much all what was said that in article.

Like I said, I reported the info that I got. Even if its not true does not make me a liar. Just like it doesnt make mister on a liar when he got info that turned out to be not true which is often.

well as you can see jarmo never said that the papers got it from you, mr. self-importance  ::)

I guess someone wants postive karma or something.

No, I did not mean it like that. What I meant was on some topics people have made up shit here before, and sites would post it as news and not fact check. The fact is, I did not just make up[ the info like the mods were claiming I was doign that nite.

You skip over what I say and keep repeating yourself like a broken record.

You are repeating other people's halftruths and lies. When that isn't enough for you, you make up your own like with the letter.

That's the problem and that's why your posts get deleted.



/jarmo

good karma to be precise... I really don't care about positive/negative side of karma, I am more interested in good/bad one...

You still wont answer the question, why would the fire marshal lie? What would he have to gain? Why is there always some problem with gnr shows that they get cancelled. Gnr most hold the record for most cancelled shows. Yeah its never axls fault is it?

As for the letter and what I said being made up. Again mercks letter to the fans backs up what I said and that Axl did not write the letter to the fans. BUt I guess since Merck doesnt want for gnr now, he is a liar right? Three days ago merck in your eyes always spoke the truth, now he doesnt. Nice logic there jarmo

and Beta just said that Axl wrote the letter... some of you miss all the good stuff about GN'R by constantly complaining and trying to prove something that is not.

Yeah and betas reason for the cancelled maine show also contradicted the press release. Beta is paid to back up axl come on now. She is his assitiant. I said this once and ill say it again. You do know that Axls speaks to the fans would have been written by merck if he was not let go right?

Aren't you one of us, since when are you on the same level as jarmo, Mysteron, Beta, ect.?

I am not on the same level and I never stated that... so don't put words in my mouth. Thank You!

I am sorry, but after this statement I don't feel like discussing things with you anymore. All the best in New Year.

Its okie newbie. You will learn someday..

i agree with you, that was ignorant and out of line. dave, beta has been one of axl's closest personal friends for over ten years, she works as his assistant but is also one of his closest friends. who are you to judge their relationship the way you do?

Why would anybody lie?

To make themselves look better....




Axl wrote the letter. Read it again.

I can't help you if you don't understand the difference between a template and an actual letter.

I explained it to you and you failed to adress my points again.

You keep repeating something which you made up in your head, you fail to take in facts and reconsider.




Yeah, the key phrase is "would have been". You fail to see the difference between "would have been written by" and "was written by".

So stop spreading the bullshit already.

Your only "source" is yourself. You didn't hear this from any friend. So now we could call you a liar.





That says a lot. You seem to think that because you registered earlier you have some kind of status above everybody else.

Guess what? We'll still call you out on the bullshit you write.


And yes Dave, reasonable people do learn once they've been presented with facts instead of saying "he didn't write it, he didn't write it, he didn't write it, he didn't write it, blah blah blah I'm not listening to you! La la la la la la....".





/jarmo

Thus you see my point and are making it for me. She has been with Axl that long of course she is going to say he wrote the letter even if he didnt not which is what I think.? And dont give me that bullshit about judging beta, I did not judge her at all. I have said for years she has been good for axl and i even defended her on the gnronline message board back when it was open.  Stop putting words in my mouth.

Dave, you are utterly pathetic.

The reason I was pissy with you is because you have some insane infatuation with yourself that makes you believe that you're somehow better than everyone else.

Don't go around calling people newbies, don't go around looking for attention and boasting about how long you've been online for.

Noone. Cares.


Oh yeah and Dave? The media lies.  That's how they make money.

Beta doesn't have to come online and tell us shit.  Yet she does, she doesn't make any more money from it, it's because she wants people to know the truth.

Something you seem to hate the idea of.

That is right Jarmo anyone who lie to make themselves look better. Thus why gnr were not being truthful about the cancellation of maine. How would it look if Axl said it was canned because he couldnt drink on stage.

Again Jarmo, I dont think Axl wrote the letter, it does not even sound like his style of writing.
As for my source that Axl didnt write the letter, I NEVER said a friend told me he didnt write it. I said I dont think he wrote it. I said Mercks letter proves that axl did not write the letter because merck was going to write the letter for him. You have no proof that axl wrote it. You didnt see him write the letter so you dont know for sure that he did.

As for the status over anyone else because I have reg earlier than most people, ask anyone that has been around as long as I have, they will back me up, I dont post bulllshit and I never have. I had the facts in the maine thing from a source and it was even in print the next day, just because your source says differently does not mean its true. As for the Axl letter, again I dont think he wrote it and mercks letter makes my opinion that much stronger. The newbies here have no clue the BS this band has given their fans over the past 8 years. The long time fans do. But it seems since you started censoring this board, those long time fans have started to leave the board.

And again about the letter if axl wrote it or not. If Mercks was never fired and his letter was released about the tour and album instead of the "Axl" letter and I said I dont think Axl wrote that letter you will still be calling me a liar and saying Axl wrote it, even though I would be right.

All the "Axl" letter is is basically mercks letter with a reason why merck got fired. So if merck wrote the first letter about the album delay and the tour dates being cancelled what makes  you think axl wrote the letter that was released?

You seem to do that quite often. Why do you want this attention? In my eyes thats all you are looking for here. You created a thread about yourself, so you could repeat the same old stuff. I am not saying you are right, and I'm not saying your wrong, but after the first 100 times I just stopped caring.

No you are pathetic and think you are on some power trip because you can deleted posts that you dont like. As for me boasting, I have never done that until now because you claim that I like to make shit up and lie, when in fact that is just the opposite, I just called you out on it and ?you are looking like an ass because the people that have known me from the beginning know you are full of shit.

As for the media lying to make money. The fire marshal is not the media. Now is he? He is not fire marshal bill from in living colour. This board tried to cover up the truth about the maine show and that is what is really pathetic.

Beta does not tell us shit. She just tries to cover up the truth like the mods do on this board. You keep saying she wants people to know the truth yet this board has coverd up the truth about maine and wont even lets mercks letter on this board.

This thread was nothing about the maine thing it was the bullshit about beta calling me a hater when she didnt know what she was talking about. ADZ brought up the maine bullshit again I didnt. Or did you not notice that? Also this thread was moved here because jarmo did not want beta to look bad by calling me a hater and having people prove her wrong. So it got buried in this section where it does not even belong.

Dave:

Why do you continue to turn non-issues into issues? I am referring to the debated authorship of the letter. Does it really matter who typed it? Did Axl physically sit in front of his computer and type it? Who cares? The only thing that matters is the content of the letter and its approval by Axl. The reason why your post was deleted was because it was irrelevant. Your argument about the letter served no benefit for the HTGTH community; it only benefited yourself and your ego. You even made a very immature post on MYGNR about this same topic. If you have a personal issues with someone, do it through a PM. Do not distract the forum for your personal benefit.

The fact is people like to make accusation and call peole liars then when the person they were calling a liar are shown to be correct they never own up to it.? As for the axl letter again I was over that but the mods here felt like bring it up agian. That is not fault. The mods are not supposted to start shit like that but ADZ ego did. Look where it went off on a tangent, right after ADZ said that.

As far as I know, you got an e-mail from Merck saying the same things we're saying...

Interesting.



It doesn't sound like Axl's writing? Who are you?

Yeah, it's not a poem or song lyrics..... It doesn't sound like Axl's writing because there's no mention of the word "fuck" in there?

Your whole argument is based on the word "if", yet you fail to realize the factor behind the "if" isn't involved with the band anymore. If he had written, if, if, if....

I never said you had a source for your bullshit theory. I said since your theory isn't based on a source this time, we can actually call you a liar. Because what you're saying is a lie.

Axl himself could tell you he wrote it and you'd still be "but it doesn't sound like you so you didn't write it because I have made my mind up and I'm not listening to anybody else".


You have no idea what you're talking about, you seem to think you do because you're a "longtime" fan.

A clueless person is a clueless person, no matter when he bought his copy of AFD.



/jarmo

Has someone hacked Dave's account?

Use to Axl could murder a school bus full of children and Dave would take Axl's side...................... 

HEY! Those damn kids were asking for it, don't knock Axl for this one....

Jarmo you are truly clueless. ?You are still not proving how I am a lying because I dont think Axl wrote the letter esp because he didnt sign it W Axl Rose. I also said that Mercks letter backs up that Axl did not write it because Merck was going to write the letter for Axl. ?So please get off your high horse and explain to me how I am lying when I say I dont think Axl wrote the letter. The last time I checked, ?having an opinion on something even its wrong isnt a lie.

Oh and as for axls writing style. What I meant was most of that letter sounds like lawyer talk not like a person writing a letter. Because even you know that Axl did not write 100% of that letter but you would not admit that because if you did then you would have to admit that I was partly write and not a liar as you claim.

I always told you and you never believed me, that I backed axl 100% of the time if I thought he was right. But esp with the maine thing I thought he was wrong and called him on it. Now that I have called him on it, all these people think that I am an axl later and a liar lol

I don't need to prove anything to you, Jarmo knows what I'm saying is right, Beta knows what I'm saying is right.

We think you're a liar because what you're doing is, funnily enough, lying.

You dont know shit. And the facts about hte maine show are on myside as much as this board wanted to hide it. But its like they say, you believe a lie long enough pretty soon in your mind it will become the truth. Its just too bad Jarmo and you cant censor the internet and censore the real truth when it came to maine.

You still have not shown how I am a liar. But that is ok, You and Jarmo dont even know what a liar is.

As opposed to yourself, who is the oracle of all that is GN'R?



Fucking hell.

I asked you a simple question and you never answered.

The template that Axl did not write was signed W. Axl Rose.

His own letter was signed Axl Rose.

So by your logic, the template was written by Axl since it was signed W. Axl Rose?


That makes no sense to me.








You are repeating a lie, which makes you a liar.

The templete is one paragraph, compare it to Axl's letter.

Please do.




I believe he wrote it.




That's exactly what you're doing you know.




/jarmo

Jarmo that means that Axl is a liar then because he said that CD out be out this year and its not.
It also means this site and you are liars because you repeated that it would be out this year and it wont be coming out this year.

As for answering your questions, merck was smart enough to know how Axl signs everything so he put W Axl Rose, the new PR who ever that is didnt thus just put Axl Rose when that person wrote it.

And I am happy that you believe axl wrote it. But if ever came out that he did not write any of it, would that then make you a liar? In your twisted logic it would. That is the problem with you now. Anyone that disagrees with Axl is a liar.

No, it's not lying when you fully believe it at the time, but then things happen, which means it's not a reality.

It's like me saying "This year I'm going to buy a house" but then my dog needs an operation so I have to pay for that which means I can't afford my house.

Does that make me a liar?

No, because at the time I said it, it was true.

Is this based on some fact(s)?

Let's hear it.




/jarmo

So then the fire marshall fully believes the reason the show was cancelled is because the band could not have liquor on stage then that means their statement is not a lie, thus I am not a liar. LOL

I already gave you my reasoning. First it was not signed W Axl Rose. 2nd most of the letter sounds like lawyer talk. 3rd its based on the blue print that merck laid out that was going to be used as teh Axl letter to the fans that axl did not write one word of but would have been claimed to have been written by axl.

That is three reasons right there why I dont think Axl wrote the letter.
Also most press release like that are always written by a publist, manager or lawyer.

No, the fire marshall doesn't believe it, because he's lying. :)

But I told you more than once that the actual template NOT written by Axl was signed W. Axl Rose.

How can you use this as evidence when you know that a template not written by him was signed W. Axl Rose?

Please enlighten me.

You know a "fake" letter was signed W. Axl Rose, and the real one wasn't. So you say the fact that the fake was signed W. Axl Rose means the real one is fake.   :confused:


Regarding the rest of your evidence, you don't think that maybe he thought this was a good time to actually write it himself and not rely on a complleted press release?




/jarmo

You are so full of it its not even funny. He ok'd the pyro and it was set to go. That was the main reason gnr gave that they cancelled because they were not allowed to use pyro. When the fact is they could not have liquor on stage if they used the pyro.

I love how we got word right from the fire marshsal yet you think he is lying, when managment for gnr have never alwyas been 100% truthful.

You did not see axl write the letter, so you dont even know if he wrote it.? You just assume he did because its signed Axl Rose. I gave my reasons why I dont think he wrote it, and they are legit reasons. All you have is I am a liar and that is it. That is not a reason to call anyone a liar.? The thing is, you know that what I am saying could be true, and that is why you are fighting it so hard. Just like the maine thing. You dont think me of all people on this board, (the biggest axl backer) thought that Axl wrote the letter I would not say I think he did. Come on now. If I thought he wrote it, why would I say he did? When I say I dont think he wrote it, there is something to it and not some person that never defended axl just saying it to say it.

Yet again, you did not answer my question Dave. Keep dancing around it.


You did not see Axl write one single goddamn note or word on the GN'R albums. Are you gonna say he didn't write them?



No way.

If somebody is right, I can say "you have a point there".

In your case, I think you're so full of yourself that you fail to acknowledge legit questions that would make your "clever" theories crumble.





No Dave, that's what you used to be.

Now even the people who always looks for negative things about the band are saying you've "seen the light".



I think something happened to you which caused you to become very bitter. You're on a mission to discredit everything the band says and you use your "online celebrity status" to make people think your opinion is more worth than anybody else's.




/jarmo

Jarmo I answered your question but you just tend to ignore the answer.

As for the people to say I have seen the light. You love to twist things just like? you twist the truth.
They say I have seen the light because I have finally crititized Axl on something which they never saw me do before. As for me becoming bitter? No, like I have always stated, if I see Axl doing something wrong I will call him on it. He fucked up the maine thing and I called him on it.

As for me thinking my opinion is worth more than someone elses that is funny coming from the guy who thinks he can just delete someone post that he doesnt like when that post statment differents from his or the bands. I just find it funny you always claim you dont delete posts with out a source and I get a source and since its not the reason the band gives you decided to delete it. You are the one who acts all high and almighty not me.

And you can run the board how you see fit, but you have no right to call anyone a liar because you dont think their source was telling the truth. Because you know damn well whole truth falls somewhere between what the band says and what the fire marshalls statement was.

By that same logic, you must secretly know that everything Jarmo is saying is correct because you are so adamantly defending yourself.

If someone wants to call me a liar, I am going to defend myself. Like I said, I already moved on with the maine thing but ADZ felt the need to bring it up again. So here we are.

It's AdZ.

For someone so anal, you think you'd get that right.

 :-*

I am talking about the logic, not the the specifics. I am talking about the statement you made about Jarmo losing the argument for doing just that--arguing. Do you not see the fallacy in your statement?

I didn't get an answer that answered the actual question about how you can use the signature as proof.

So please explain it.

How can you say the signature is proof when you know a template signed "W. Axl Rose" was not written by the man himself?



Sorry, but that's called moderation. It's what a moderator does.

Delete posts that are deemed inappropriate. Sometimes merge threads, sometime move and sometimes lock threads.




You're speculating like you always do, and when you're told you're wrong, you still keep going on and on. Because in your mind, you're never wrong.



No, I call someone who keep repeating lies a liar.

The source in this case is you.




/jarmo

In Dave's defense, he hasnt called for a reunion yet............. :hihi:

Jarmo once again since you don?t really want to hear my answer and you are still ignoring my point about the letter being signed just Axl Rose. You can get into semantics all you want, but Axl never wrote 100% of his press releases but it was still signed at the bottom W Axl Rose. So the first flag that Axl did not write the letter was it was sign just Axl Rose.


So tell me how the Merck letter or the "whole truth" about Maine is inappropriate? Id love to hear that one.
The fact is and you can?t even deny it, but you love to call it a lie, the Maine cancellation had a legit source but you think that source is a liar. I even pointed out how the gnrs camp story was inconsistent yet you still think their version is the truth.
The only liar here is you when you know the truth but just cover it up for gnrs truth.

Anyway this is my last post on this subject. It was good to vent, now lets try to all move on. Thre is no point in going in circles anymore. Everyone is going to  believe what they want and no one is going nto change the other persons mind  : ok:

No, Dave. Your answer makes absolutely no sense.


That's so funny.

Because we know all the others that he wrote were signed W. Axl Rose. Even the ones he didn't write....





Of course you would.

But the fact is, no matter what I've said to you in this thread, you've skipped the facts.

Maybe I should just make shit up like you.... The truth isn't interesting to you anyway.



And I pointed out how your theory is based on things that make no fucking sense to anybody else.

To start a show at 11PM, you don't need to fly out of NYC at 5PM.



That makes no sense.

I know the truth but I cover it up with some other truth....  :confused:




Obviously not...



/jarmo

Was Merck managing the band when Buckethead left?

lol - its incredible - I have to say, Dave is being logical and actually talking reason here

its a shame some mods here have to try and ridicule him for it

I'm not trying to ridicule anybody, his reasons just make no sense to me.

The proof he provided is in my opinion full of flaws.



/jarmo

wasnt referring to you so much jarmo

if i can chime in here, specific to Merck statement, why is that not allowed to be discussed here? is it believed by yourself to be 'lies'? I missed what discussion went on around that.

I have explained myself regarding why certain things aren't posted here.

I'm sorry, but I can't keep repeating myself because some of you refuse to pay attention.

The reason is very simple, respect for the band that we all are fans of.




/jarmo

Anybody who has that little respect for the band and its members should post somewhere else.





/jarmo

If you are ever going to know (which I doubt) it is obviously not going to be now. The industry is F?d and know one talks about it that?s the way it is, that?s the way it?s always been and as long as Oz has a curtain that?s the way it will stay. They obviously hit a snafu and no one with any sense gives out details at a time like that. Ten thousand dollars worth of legal advice at a time like this is usuallly Shut Up.

Wow...I almost feel like I'm eavesdropping here guys.  Time to start PM-ing or take this matter to a separate thread?

Axl wrote:



None of us fans here know exactly what's going on. Yet we have certain people here making bold fucking statements about things they have no idea about.



/jarmo

I've rarely agreed with Dave over the years and to be quite honest I haven't always been very fond of him, but I would have never ever made such a ridiculous accusation towards him. To say he has little respect for the band is just flat out false. To treat him like he is nothing more than a mere troll is wrong. Period. Just because he doesn't agree with your little ideals doesn't make him less of a fan.

I've always thought dave was an ass who just tried to disagree with everything, but there is always that guy in every group.

I've watched him post for years.... and just cuz' you've been around for a while, it doesn't mean you aren't an ass.

He does seem disrespectful, to me personally. It's a shame he always has to see the negative in fucking everything. I know if I worked hard on shit and then had to put up with this guy who calls everything I do a lie, or looks for the negative in it, I'd think he was disrespecting me.

Oh really? The guy basically says everything they say to us fans are lies.

That's not exactly respect.


I think he's on a crusade after he found out his comments aren't appreciated.





/jarmo

dave, let me just say, that any respect i had for you went out the window watching you post for the last fucking few days. i can't believe you started a thread about how big of a supporter you are.... are you only in this for your fucking online status?

seriously, you can try to argue all you want, but the last couple of days have really proved what type of person you are........

You know what we should do to settle this argument between dave and Jarmo? ?Both should get someone to represent them. ?We could form a jury and appoint a judge and have a trial here on HTGTH. ? :rofl:

Dave has defended and supported the new band to no end for many years now.  I think that should be acknowledged and given it's due. 

Ali

This is coming from the guy currently being puppeted by the band into controlling what fans on his message board are saying.

Get a grip, my friend.

Yeah just because he question, has his own brain and his own opinions doesnt make him any less than a fan.

For real...we're beyond off-topic at this point. ?How about a "personal attacks" thread for mods and members to get all this pent-up frustration out? ? ? :beer:

Page 35 = massive fucking shit storm!  I feel like running into the street to yell "HTGTH FIGHT!"

Well, that might be what you think but that doesn't mean your assumptions are correct.

I don't think Dave's sole purpose is to go around and accuse people of lying. He has noticed inconsistancies and has commented on them like any intelligent person would do. There's nothing wrong or disrespectful there. These type of discussions/debates are completely healthy. It's sweeping everything under the rug that does no good.

The only one using the liar word is you and beta. You dont have the respect of posters who disagree with what the band says. Getting the TRUTH is getting BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY but this board just gets the bands. When the other side is told you call that person a liar. That is not respect. If anyone is being disrespectful its you and beta esp by your comments.

God forbid for the first time (well two ) I saying something opposite from the band and now I am a ?hater and a liar? I guess I am dark vader now in your eyes eh?

That's exactly the kind of statement dave would usually make. Look for some reason why it can't be true, why what he's being told is lies.

You are the one who needs to get a grip.

Like I said in another thread. ?I think we should get someone to represent dave and someone to represent jarmo. ?Appoint a judge, assemble a jury and have a trial here on HTGTH.

I love this board.

I could seriously care less about these 'issues.'

We have a tentative release date and an idea how much of the album is left to complete.

If you people want to skirmish over the table scraps, then I wish you would go back to the thread in the admin section.

I'm not saying that anything is factually inaccurate, to my knowledge it's not.

But to discount everyone else's opinion except that of the band is terrible.

"Axl says the sky is blue"

"But I saw the sky turn purple once..."

"NO THE SKY IS BLUE DAMNIT, WHY ARE YOU DIRESPECTING THE BAND"

I've only read like 3 pages of this thread and that's the impression that I'm getting.

You (and Dave nowadays) seem like the kind of guys who'd go see GN'R only so you can yell "asshole" at them.

I go there to have a good time and enjoy the show.

That's the difference between us.



You wanna talk about respect?

Always assuming the band lies to you, that's not respect.




No, but to constantly put down the band because that's the only thing that makes sense to him.

I wouldn't call that kind of a person a fan.


What kind of a fan acts like this:

Band: We sold out venue X
Fan: No, there's still tickets left. Liars.
Then a few weeks later the box office info clearly says it was sold out.

Band: We unfortunately can't play this show because....
Fan: Liars, the papers say...
Always taking the other side. Like the press is objective. Negativity and scandals sell.

Band: Here's a press release
Fan: The band didn't write it, it's all lies!






/jarmo

It's disappointing to see so much arguing and personal attacking going on around here in the midst of the best news we've had in a long, long time.? ?Perhaps we all need a bit of a break so we can realize just how good it's been being a GnR fan this year...

I'm sorry but you haven't got a clue as to what Dave is about. Dave has always been one of GNR's biggest and loudest supporters and is pretty well-known in the GNR internet community for his enthusiasm over the band.

Dave has been looking at things with more of an open mind lately and is vocal about when he notices an inconsistancy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make him less of a fan or a hater. This attitude towards someone who uses their brain has got to stop.

He's probably getting paid.

I don't know why else someone would spend his waking hours monitoring a thread for negative comments that are only negative comments in the eyes of what the band says are negative comments.

Has

He used to be enthusiastic. I know that myself.

I remember when he was being made fun of becuse he was so into the band.


Nowadays he spends his time complaining about the band lies to him all the time.





So just because he starts thinking he's being lied to by the band he's using his brain and those of us who think otherwise aren't?

That's nice....





/jarmo

Yeah, the same dave who was using his brain when he thought Latigo Hammers was Axl

 :-X

haha

jarmo here is your problem
I disagree with something the band says and instead of disagreeing with that and respecting that you call me a liar. Gee I wonder why you think I am negative. If you just disagreed and moved on stuff like this would not happen. But to get the whole truth you have to look at both sides and not just one but you think  everything not coming from the band is a lie, which we all know its not

You obviously have your own definition of what a fan is but that doesn't mean it is correct. I used to think like you when I was a young teenager, but then I grew up and realized that my "heros" are flawed, human, beings just like the rest of us and it's okay to criticize them just like you would anyone else. It doesn't make you less of a fan. It just means you don't blindly support someone.

The fact is that GNR has been surrounded by a lot of negativity over the past decade or so. So it is completely natural for a fan to have a negative reaction when something bad happens because in the past they would have been correct. GNR are working hard to improve that image and they are doing a good job so far, but they have a long way to go before the bad memories are erased. Not to mention that the band isn't going to be 100% honest with us all of the time. I don't mean that as a slam, it's just a simple fact of the business. People in the business spin all the time. So of course people are going to be wondering what is true or not, especially

My problem is people who think they're better fans than others because they registered before them.

I called you a liar because you claim Axl didn't write the letter. That's a lie.

I didn't call you a liar because you choose to believe whatever a newspaper printed.

There's a slight difference.


I tend to think that people in (or working for) the band have a better idea of what's going on than most of us posting here. I don't assume we're constantly being lied to by the band.

I don't take what newspapers or authorities say as the truth.

I don't call people liars because something they wished for didn't happen.




Umm, I think you misunderstood what I said.

Of course they're only human. You keep assuming I'm stupid... That's nice.





Yeah, I know.

But in a time when we should look ahead and be thankful that we have gotten alot from the band during 2006. We have some people trying to bring everybody else down.

I know people in business spin things, but why can't you admit that the media isn't always telling the truth? Tabloids sell issues with gossip, scandals and speculation.

They're not always doing enough research for their "objective" articles...

Yet so many people assume the media is right, the band is lying....




/jarmo

Again Jarmo because I think axl didnt write the letter doesnt make me a liar. I love how you jump to that. Merck wrote a lot of axls press releases, that happens with all bands. Even you know that but you wont admit it because then you would have to admit you were wrong to call me a liar.

Well, it must be frustrating to support be passionate about something like he was to be disappointed at every single turn. I can't blame him for being skeptical, especially when some inconsistancies are more than obvious.


My intention wasn't to say those who disagree aren't using their brains. I honestly didn't mean it to sound that way. From where I sit, I just see Dave looking at the band in a much more objective manner than he has in the past and suddenly he is being treated like a troll. That's not right. I just don't think it's healthy for someone to blindly support anyone, but ?these people are celebrated, yet when somene tries to bring intelligent debate they are scorned and threatened. ?Why is that wrong? Why is it wrong for Dave to bring up a blatant inconsistancy he noticed?

Of course Axl didnt sit down and type the letter himself, he probably dictated what he wanted to say and then had his assistant type it all up. Thats not a big deal, it still doesn't mean he didnt write it. And why do you believe everything Merck is saying now? weren't you calling him a liar only mere weeks ago?  ::)

I could've understood his frustration in 2005...

The band is still on tour, we have a tentative release date..... Things are way better than in 2005 and he's disappointed now.

Makes no sense to me.






If you read this thread, you'll see I have tried to tell him why I think his evidence is wrong. He has failed to acknowledge any of it.




I know he wrote some of the press releases Dave.

But I have shown you more than once why I think you are wrong.


The fact still is, it didn't come from Merck, and you know it. Why would he send out a press release which states him being let go?


If you say something and it's not true, what does it make you? Your opion is based on false facts as far as I can tell.

You have no idea how that letter came to be.





/jarmo

This is great, this is better than any reality TV show.


I commend Jarmo for not dishing out any negative karma and for leaving this thread open.



Dave definitely isnt a hater or he never has been on here. He is that poster that would make u nauseous the way he'd defend Axl but now he is seriously pissed.


I think Beta is the reason Dave is so mad. the fact she called him a hater when Axl is the guy's biggest role model and hero.

To call Dave an Axl hater would be like calling me a Bon Jovi Hater.

jarmo I said I thought axls lawyer wrote the press release. Merck wrote the template.
And you can THINK my evidence is wrong but it doesnt mean it is wrong. Just like it doesnt mean its true. But its an OPINION that axl didnt write it. I dont see why you are getting so mad because I think axl didnt write his press release. He never wrote most of the ones before this either.

I can't help but make a comment.

1) Dave, you're a dumbass. Dark Vader? Dude. I don't know shit about Star Wars, and even I want to kick you in the nuts for that.

Yeah, that just about sums it up.

Oh, and you're giving me one hell of a laugh tonight. Really. All of you. I only wish I could meet Axl right at this second. Because I'm sure he'd be laughing his ass off too.

I mean, I've seen alot of shit over the years on this board, but this is just....sad and pathetic.

I mean really....


Dark Vader?

Oh yeah...and 90 percent of you need to get a life. See that fuzzy area behind and surrounding the message board? It's called reality.

The only one's that comment isn't directed to would be Jarmo, cause this is his shit, Beta, cause she's "with" the band, and gets paid for this shit, and Dave, because fuck knows there ain't a prayer in hell of that sorry bastard getting a life. And all this while I talk to him on MSN.

Oh...and Beta...nice to meet ya. I'm RazZ. Resident asshole. Don't worry, you won't hear much fighting from me anymore. I couldn't give two shits, honestly. You just let me know when that album is on the shelves, and I'll pick up a couple of copies.

Not that I'm being friendly to you or anything. I'd probably flip you off if I met you on the streets, simply because it's the courtesy I offer everyone I've ever met, period.

Have a nice day kids. Billy Idol rocks the shit..

That's not my intention. I disagree with you on this subject but I know you are a very intelligent man.


I completely understand where you are coming from but not everyone is a "glass half full person" and I don't think they should be treated like they are trolls trying to ruin the party just because they have a different view on the situation. I can understand why someone would feel disappointed when most fans only care about CD and they were let down after being told it would be out in 06. You also have to remember not everyone is getting to see the band on this tour so the excitement level may not be the same for them.

No, you're right the media isn't always correct, but the same can be said for the band. They aren't going to be completely honest with us all of the time. That's just the way the business works.

This thread is great and everything???does anybody here like hummus? I?m really digging the stuff I bought at Ceviche last night! Who ever knew chic peas could be so damn good? (Dips bread back into hummus and chews like farm animal.)

Definition of lie:

1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. ?
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture


1. ?Dave's opinion that the letter was not directly penned by Axl Rose because something seemed "off" about it, is an opinion. ?True or untrue, it is an opinion. ?It cannot be a lie because there is no intent to deceive, Dave is presenting what he sees as truth. ?Dave is NOT suggesting a conspiracy theory by saying that it seemed like Axl didn't write it.

2. ?The Fire Marshall incident - Dave did not fabricate this. ?The firemarshall's story may have been fabircated or exagerated, but Dave relaying this does NOT make him a liar. ?Dave pointing out what he sees as inconsistancies in the band's version of the story does NOT make him a liar.

Call him something else, but "liar" is a very strong word. ?Dave hasn't done anything to decieve or CONTROL anything here. ?He's been a stable force on the forums for several years. ?His posts were WORTH reading.

Why does Dave have a negative attitude? ?Probably has more to do with being called a LIAR or a "attention whore" by people on this forum than it does with being upset by GNR. ?He's rather glad they put out a statement and that they are touring - you can plainly go and read that.

How sad is it to accuse someone of being an attention whore on a web forum? That's the idea - post something people want to read, and then they can reply to it. ?That's what Dave does. ?It's usually good stuff. ?What's there to get all "I'll ban you!" about? ?

Seems to me this "conflict" has been escalated by others, and not Dave. ?Dave freaking loves this band and the music (...who took Generalship on all the lyric threads?) ?- just because he posts things that disagree with official information - NOT intentionally spreading lies, but trying to fill things out - people want to get rid of him?

It's not like he posted lies about release dates and doctored pictures or told wild lies (things he KNEW to NOT be true) about anything.

A lie is when someone says something they know to be untrue, it isn't a lie just because someone is wrong.
Gah.

You guys are taking this wayyyy too seriously.  :-*

It's not a life or death issue.  There are worse things in the world than a Maine cancellation, or a band manager getting fired.  Time to move on.

No kidding!  "Celebrity" , "liar" , "martyr"...  he's just a guy posting opinions on some band msg board.

=)

There are? :nervous: :nervous:

You're a Bon Jovi hater.   ;D

when and where did beta call dave an axl hater?
i searched through her post but can't seem to find it.
btw i don't think beta chose this board by accident, there is a reason we are privilaged to have her presence here and that is the fact that this board is run in a positive way, free of hate and negativity. 8)

Dave does not present it as his opinion, he presents it as fact; just like when he says the band doesn't play TWAT because Ron can't play it, or that Chinese Democracy wasn't released because of Slash and Duff's lawsuit. The dude has always presented his conjecture as fact. Read any of his post and you will find that he almost never says "I think" or "In my opinion." Its not so much what he says, but rather his approach. He comes off as arrogant and condescending.

Dave says he has no problem with anybody disagreeing with him, but rather with people calling him a "liar." I think he just can't stand people disagreeing with him. Need proof? Go here: http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=86782&hl=

"Dont ever doubt me again", "when I say something and people like im full of shit or its bullshit, its always proven true down the road."

Its cute that he now says it is only his opinion that Axl did not write the letter; however, two days ago he was saying it was a fact. He says, "I was proven true the next day, so I am going to point it out."

She did in a PM to me. But  Iam not going to post it on here since PMs should not be posted on the forum.

Again here you go with that bullshit I present my opinion as fact. You dont have to write IMO before every post. I also NEVER said that CD is not out because of the slash and duff lawsuit. Dont make up shit. Remember my old sign I had for two years? I? had it for people like you. I said before all my statements there should be an IMO, that way people like? you cant claim this nonesense.? That is like saying someone that claims WTTJ is the best rock song ever, them bashing them beause they are stating it as fact because they didnt put IMO before it. I find it funny I took that off a week ago and now you bring up this stupid argument again.

Yeah too bad you misssed the deleted posts in the other thread when I talked about it the night before and that person said I was full of shit and a liar when I said I dont think Axl wrote the letter. But of course you wont tell the whole story and did not even mention that. There? you go again never showing all the facts. So typically.

Also I did say that I did not think Axl wrote the letter and merck proved that I was right, but of? course that letter cannot be posted on this forum, so in this forums eyes it does not exist. That is why its so funny how I pointed out the incosisteneces of the letter, and when merck pretty much said the axl letter was taken from his blue print I am? still a Liar when i pointed out how I was right that Axl did not write it.? ::)

wow.......I can't believe this thread is still going. I just woke up, it's 9:15 am, and I'm already laughing. Thanks guys :)

How did Merck prove anything right or wrong? Just because he said something doesnt make it so. You were calling him a liar only mere days/weeks ago. Why are you up his ass all of a sudden?

Go back and read the thread

I don't need to go back and read anything, you are assuming everything Merck said was the gospel truth. Just because you WANT him to be telling the truth, doesn't mean he actually is...

So when merck was the gnr manager everything he said was gospel but now that he is not with axl anymore everything he says are lies? So I guess when he was the gnr manager everything said by them were lies right? This is the problem. Axl is never at fault is he? Look at how many managers, mixes, producers, band members (just in the new gnr)? that axl has gone through working on this album. But yeah axl is never at fault now is it?

Its Axl's fault Merck might not e telling the truth in his letter? Ok dave you just went from being annoying to completely fucking insane. You are beyond reason, no matter what anyone says you immediately go blame it on Axl. What happened at the Worcester show. did Axl turn down your advances or something?  For god's sake man get over it!

Dave's favorite mask wearing guitar player isn't in the band anymore...  ;)



/jarmo

Uhmmmmmmmmmm......... k?

I case you haven't noticed, people who's favorite band members aren't in the band anymore tend to be a bit more bitter....




/jarmo

Actually Robin was always my fave, eventhough BH was better  : ok:

i don?t get this....

i`m not that well informed about the background, but from what i can say dave definitely is NOT a hater.

what was the lie?  axl never left nyc and cancelled the portland show? is that everything?  i don?t see the big deal there....

The night of the portland show. I got info from steven who talked with the fire marshal and head of security. He was told, which I told the board, the show was cancelled because axl was not allowed to have liquor on stage and because of low tix sales. I also said that axl never even left NYC. That post got deleted and Jarmo said I was lying and this and that. The next day in the portland paper, it pretty much said what I did the nite before yet I was called a liar and I still am because it differs from what the gnr press release is.

Now Jarmo is even admitting that Axl never left NYC eventhough that nite the mods on this board claimed it was a lie

What they said was you are lying about the reason the show was cancelled. The only thing you were saying was that the show was canceled because of low ticket sales. Which was bullshit. You are believing everyone but the people who actually know what went on (the band). Of course the fire marshall would lie about the reason it was canceled, he obviously dont want to look bad in this situation and have everyone blame him. And do you think that the press don't make up shit just to sell more papers? God man use some common sense..

How am I calling beta a liar? I am just saying my friend said he saw merck a few weeks ago at one of the shows. So I asked about this. I said I will find out what show he saw merck at.  About the letter, again I said that  I thought axls lawyer wrote the letter and listed the reasons why. Mercks letter which came out the next day after I said that made my case stronger. You can claim I have not proven anything but if you look at all the evidence you can see why I would say axl did not write the letter.

Again get your facts straight. I said the nite of the show and of course the posts were deleted. That Axl was not going to allowed to have liquor on stage and because of low ticket sales.  Of course you did not see all the posts because they kept getting deleted.

You are ASSUMING Merck is telling the truth. You  were calling him a liar only a few weeks ago. You always skip that part of my post. Why all of a sudden are you believing him?

And you are assuming beta is telling the truth. And yes I was saying merck was lying about CD being out this year, and he was but Axl lied about CD being out by the end of the year also. So what is your point?

Beta has nothing to gain by lying, merck has everything to gain. Right now he has no job, so obviously if he doesn't make himself to look good then no one is going to want to work with him. That's why you cant believe everything he says.

Doesn't he manage either Iron Maiden or Motley Crue?  ???

Yes she does, she has her job to worry about. ?You really think if the truth was going to make Axl look bad that Beta would say yes Merk is telling the truth ? Of course not she would be fired. Everyone always said Axl is your best friend til you cross him. Beta has everything to lose, thus why she rushed to this board to try and not let mercks letter be allowed to be posted on this board.

No, Merck no longer works for sanctuary. Iron maiden is managed by Ron Smallwood (as far as I know) and Motley Crue is still with Doc McGhee (last I heard anyway).

Oh ok, Thanks. It was pretty obvious that GNR was his main job anyway.... and I think he needs to find another profession.  :hihi:

you make a good point here dave....

when people read the letter from axl, the merck bashing started and even the mods are now saying that merck isn`t telling the truth. at the time, when he was still manager, merck bashing was forbidden and posts bashing merck were deleted...  i`m not saying he tells the truth, as i never really liked him that much, but it`s not fair to call him a liar just because axl fired him....

merck wrote a very proffessional letter in my opinion. he didn`t insult axl or anything, in fact, he even praised him...   so i don?t understand why that letter wasn`t posted here (or deleted for that matter...).

if i were to guess, he sent it to jarmo as well, but jarmo didn`t post it, but never mind....  as it`s available on the other forums...which is kinda interesting/ironic isn`t it?

i mean he sent it to madison :rofl:

I thought his main job was Elton John

i highly doubt, merck has any money/job issues at the moment.... seriously...

i believe beta as much as i believe merck/axl or anyone involved by the way. neither of them is neutral......we have to find our own perspective, which isn`t that easy sometimes, if you`re only reading this board...

and saying axl/merck lied about a 2006 release is not true. at the time they were mentioning it, a 2006 release was still the plan.

Like I have said before. We need to get both sides to get the truth but this board on gives the gnr truth. The truth always is in between what both partys say but this board does not allowed that. Just the gnr spin

You know what Dave, if what you think is true bothers you so much, why don't you just go discuss it somewhere else?

Oh I forget the people that dont agree with axl 100% of the time should leave or be banned LOL
Give me a break. If axl does somethng wrong he should be held accountable for it. This is not nazi germany, we should be able to have an opinion and disuss things even if we dont always agree with the band.

No, it's the people that whine about the way this place is run that should leave.

You see the difference?

What has he done wrong? You still haven't proven that he has done anything wrong. Yet you still bitch and moan.

I dont whine about the way the place is run. I even defend jarmo on other boards when they bitch about how he runs it. I just dont like people like you or who ever calling me a liar or hater because my view does not go with what the band says 100% of the time.

Yeah, you don't whine about the way this place is run at all.

For one the cancelled shows. #2 the album not being out and axl passing the blame off to others and not taking 1% of the blame for it.

You and jarmo do the most whining about people that have a different opinion. You guys want to ban anyone who thinks its wrong to cancel a show.

Yeah, we want to ban people that like the colour red too. Oh! Also anyone who owns a pair of loafers.

At least you are admitting it

Axl is to blame because 1 shows was canceled due to restrictions being put on the band and 4 were canceled to get the promotion etc ready for the album? Would you rather they play those 4 shows and the album be pushed back again?

How is it his fault the album isn't out. Its quite obvious the reason it isn't out is because they are trying to renegotiate their contract with the label. They are trying to get the best deal they possibly can and the best promotion etc for the album. Again would you rather they put the album out right now and it not do well because of lack of promotion?

judging from what axl/management/beta.... says, axl is definitely a saint : ok:

i believe him when he says, people are giving him a hard time sometimes, but i doubt he has never anything to do with it...  i believe in the new axl, but in the past he wasn`t always the easiest guy to deal with...

he`s not the first person to ever release an album... the problem is that there`s lots of hate towards him out there. did anyone see michael jackson`s sad performance at the world music awards a while ago? it was really sad, if you ask me, yet lots of people were saying the king is back and stuff...    imagine it was axl.....  get what i mean?

Oh wow Dave, you really are clueless.

Right, okay, to be honest I have only read this thread up until this post and I don't exatly feel like putting myself through another eight pages of it.

But seriously, dude... You're a complete joke on this forum.

Yeah I am such a joke most people have defended me. This board has become a joke and everyone knows it with all the censoring going on. IT was never like that before. The real joke is the mods on this board getting all nuts because someone doesnt agree with the band or because they wanted to post the merck letter and calling the person that posted the merck letter a hater. Now that is a joke

So you will be deleting you're account then right? You obviously hate being a member of this board.

I'd never thought I'd see what's going on in this thread...

Yep I disgree with axl once or twice and now i am labeled as a hater by the mods and should leave the board. That is what has happened to this board.

No, most people that replied to this thread have defended you. Not most people you total joke.

(I'm guessing, of course, because I have no interest in reading your self indulgent crap)

The vast majority that would be less than willing to jump to your defence are those that make up this board... Not the vocal fucking idiots who believe that they have a majority presence because it is them who are posting sixty times a day in ever thread against this board.

And see, that's the real joke. I'm almost certain that if you asked every member of this board what they thought of the 'changes' to this place then you would find a fraction completely agreed with it, a fraction were totally against it and the vast majority, while being split between those who weren't necesarily happy and those who thought it was all right, wouldn't care! It is these people who don't come running to the admin section, the place where all the cool kids hang out.

But it's those attention seeking bitches, who make themselves appear to be much more of a majority than they are by hunting in packs, who would have you believe that it is you guys who make up this community.

Get over yourself!

Yes Dave, you have been around for one hundred years and you are the ORIGINAL, straight out of the GNR Bar, dave-gnfnr2k. But you, and those who are like you, are certainly not the reason that I'm part of the GNR online community. I couldn't care less if you old skoolers hung out somewhere else. Hell, it would certainly make my reading experience more pleasent as well as meaning that I cringed less when reading the board.

complete. and. utter. joke.

this is going way too far....

Jim the mods like you need to get over yourself and let people have their opinion. That is the problem, you want everyone to agree on everything and anything that is just a tad against your opinions, most be deleted or that person is being negative. You can spew all the bullshit you want but why do you think a lot of the old time posters have left this board and this board is not 80% newbies? You should really look in a mirror if you want to see a joke.

indeed.   all respect for dave just went rihgt out the fucking window.    dwelling on stupid shit like concerts that got cancelled over a month ago.  ::)  pathetic dude.   get a fucking life dave.   turn off the computer and come back in 3 months.  : ok:

Get your facts straght. AdZ was the one who brought that shit up again. That had not been talked about for a while until he brought it up.

No Dave, disagreeing isn't what makes anybody a hater.

Spewing shit, spreading halftruths and speculate about things you have no idea about in order to to make yourself look cool, would get you that label though.



Yeah, sure Dave. The joke is the little clique of people like yourself who keep complaining about it yet stick around.

Or the ones who say "Ban me, I don't care!" and try to come back time after time.

Or the ones who say "I'm leaving" only to come back a week later with a new username.



Maybe it had to change because there weren't so many people who love spreading bullshit before 2006?





/jarmo

isn`t speculation what we all do?  nobody knows shit.... not you, not me...  it`s your decision,  whether you believe merck or beta/axl...

If only it was the "spreading bullshit" posts that got erased.

This thread really isn't going anywhere.

Ill just put it simple:

If you like HTGTH, then stay. If you dont like it, there are a variety of GNR forums that you can check out.

Arguing here isnt solving anything.

You are aware the gnr camp are notorious for half truths right? And you talk about the spreading of bullshit, that is not it at all, much less was much censored back then and not considred bullshit.

Its funny the person who claimed the album got pushed off to 2007 by a band member was said to be spreading bullshit but now we know it to be true. The  gnr camp said it was not true and the album would be out in 2006 and that was less than a month ago. So why hasnt this board admitted they were wrong to that poster and admit he was not spreading bullshit?

Before I post my opinion on this matter, I'd like to know who are the mods like Jim...

Name them.

nuts, Damn Dave, go outside or something, lol, I and I think many others, don't even give a shit anymore, just let it go, get a life. Now, I NEVER reduce myself to calling people petty names here. But I think this time it's appropriate. You ARE a joke, you keep babbling the same BS over and over. I don't care who brought it up again, does that mean you have to keep going on and on? I don't even care who's wrong and who's right anymore, it doesn't matter. People have heard you, they either agree, or they don't, stop begging for attention by creating threads about yourself.

Now you see where i am coming from lol

Oh wow.

You need to get a clue.

This comes from somebody who believes what newspapers say.




Funny how you fail to recognize that everybody admits they had hoped to have the album out in 2006.

I believe the album was gonna be out in 2006. I hoped it would be out in 2006.


Now, does it make me a liar because it didn't?




/jarmo

Oh so the newspapers lie now jarmo?

And like I said you never admitted you were wrong to that poster for telling him he was spreading bullshit.
Its ok, I had my source and it was legit. You can claim all you want that its  not true but I was still not spreading bullshit not lying about it. That is something you will never admit.

 

You are spreading bullshit dave and everyone here knows it.

And just what bullshit have I spread? Because any unbiased person knows that is not true.

Do you really need me to point it out yet again? I've already said it about 20 times so far in this thread.

And I proved your so called reasons were wrong

Can you answer my question?

What was your question again

Like I said before, you haven't proved anything. You bitch and moan trying to get the rest of us to give up and say "your right" just to get you to shut up. Too bad, it's not going to work this time dave.

Jarmo and ADZ to name two. They should really understand not everyone is going to believe what the gnr camp tells us esp with their track record. We should be allowed to discuss it without being labeled as a hater or a bullshit spreader. Also ADZ instigated this whole thead and its tangent to get back on the maine thing. If that had been a poster starting that, that poster would have gotten talked to.

I did not prove anything? I already gave the link to the article in the portland paper that backed up the reason why manie was cancelled and i gave the info the night before it even was in the papers, because it came right from the fire marshal.
How is that not proof? That is the problem with certain people on this board. You can give them all the proof in the world but they are not going to believe it. You should know the info that gnr gives out is not always the whole truth.

What do you mean now?

They always have, they always will.

I did it because I thought you were being stupid, I still do.  Much like everyone else here.

How is it proof? Your quoting "news" from a second hand source. And like I already said, don't you think the fire marshall is going to lie so he doesn't come off as the bad guy? You should know by now that the media and allot of other people have it out for this band and want to see them fail. Yet you agree with them, are you hoping the band will fail too?

Newspapers cant lie its called slander and the few times they print things that are not true they get sued. I dont see gnr suing teh portland paper.

Of course they fucking lie.

Didn't The New York Times get busted because they had a reporter who made shit up?

Haven't you seen reviews of shows mentioning songs that weren't even played?

We just had a newspaper here that got sued (and lost) for printing lies about some Swedish celebrity.


No Dave, the newspapers are telling you the absolute unbiased truth....   ::)



I had my sources who I believe are more credible than your fire marshall (who was named in a press release).

It's ok Dave, you can think everybody who have nothing to do with the band really know what's going on. But don't expect me to believe your personal opinions are the truth, because I won't.

Especially when we get information from inside the GN'R camp. People who are there.


Remember the "security took back Axl's mic" thing?

I bet you believed that to be true too. I mean, why would a security guy lie....


Time after time you refuse to admit that the GN'R camp might be telling the truth and your souces might actually have an agenda on their own.

You failed to prove anything I asked you for in this thread. You keep answering questions with new questions when you fail to answer. That's the usual tactic from somebody who knows they're wrong but can't admit it.

Either make a joke about it and pretend it never happened, or try to come up with a witty counter question.


To all the people complaining about how GN'R don't have rules and are for freedom of speech. Look in the bands history.

Certain journalist who used their "freedom of speech" never got to interview the band.

If there were no rules, how come Steven Adler was fired?


The difference is that they made their own rules instead of following anybody else's.


Now I'm truly done with Dave because you can't get through to him at all.

It's like talking to Buckethead without the puppet present.



/jarmo

And like I said you think axl is going to say Oh I couldnt drink on stage and there were not that many people there so I did not feel like showing up. You dont think the band is going to bend the truth on that? The fire marshal cred is a lot more than axls at this point. Esp with Axls track record for missing shows

Like I said Jarmo the few times the papers print things that are not true they get sued. I dont see gnr suing the paper over the fire marshals reason the show not going on. Also if gnrs story is true about them not being able to use pyro for the show, then why didnt they post the paper worked that said they would not be allowed to use it? IF they were telling the truth they could easily do that, but they didnt because the fire marshal signed off on it.

Let me just say that if a newspaper prints something false, that's slander and they can get sued.

BUT if they print something and say "The fire marshall said this....." that's not slander because they are simply quoting someone. There's the difference.

But gnr would go after the fire marshal for lying, which they did not.

Can you read? Not once did I voice out over any given opinion, I barely, if ever, give my opinion on most of the matters at hand. What you just said has nothing to do with what I said!

I'll spell it out for you if you are having difficulty,

my major problem with all of this is the manner in which (it's to seek attention, so you know) the vast majority of those against what has happened with this board go about making their views public.

Your reply to what I said is laughable you absolute joke. You just pulled out the classic ''oooohh, yeah but like... you moderators, you admins, oooh, you know... don't like other opinions much, do you?'' because you couldn't engage with the real matter at hand. Grow up, read what you are replying to and maybe we'll fucking get somewhere.

(PS I am appreciating, greatly, your lying about lying! Oooh, I'm certain about this. Oooh, ooh... Oooh!, big man, been around a long time, eh? What a joke)

Dude, seriously. I feel like the SLCPUNK to your Randall Flagg right now. Don't fall back on a bullshit statement about me not accepting other peoples opinions. Opinion and expression are entirely different things, point me in the direction of anywhere, anywhere, that I have said something that even alluded to the supression of opinion... I dare you.

Dave, you are a laughing stock of the GNR community. And I don't mean the people who have been around the longest. I mean the people that make it worth being part of the GNR community.

total. fucking. joke.

I would have answered but I feel dead tired and I wanna watch an episode of Prison Break before I fall asleep. Far more interesting than this.

Maybe tomorrow.

You can claim what ever ?you want that makes you sleep at night. I know you think if you say it enough that if will be true, but it does not work that way. ?This board is becoming a joke and fast. Its nothing like it used to be. And you keep proving what I am saying. The people that dont believe the bullshit this band gives us, are a joke. ?I am tired of all the bullshit that goes on here and its time some one takes a stand. ?More and more people are getting pissed off about all the bullshit that is going on ?here. ?And its only going to get worse the more you guys censor this board. The reason joke is calling one of the most postive axl fans on this board a hater or a bullshit spreader because he got info that did not agree with what gnr said. Boo hoo.

My friend, you were a complete and utter joke long before any information that you did or didn't get that was or wasn't reliable. I couldn't care less about that, nor could I give if a shit if you're a hater. Hell, we get enough of them, what's one more?


Let's work in straight answers now, no more shitting about; what do I think that, if I say it enough times, will be true? I'm somewhat lost.


For the last time, engage with the fucking topic at hand. I am proving what you are saying, how? I haven't posted how I feel about the censorship, I haven't told you my opinion on what we are being by the band or anybody else. I'm talking about method, and I refuse to repeat myself for a third time if, even after this, you can't get your head around what I'm saying.


Eh? Joke?


What a man of the fucking people. You fucking hero, you.

what. a. joke.

jim, there`s no need to get personal on this....  that`s one of the main aspects, which start to annoy me. people who don?t agree with the band get called stupid and clueless (in this case, they get called utter jokes...)

there`s not one post from beta, in which she doesn`t insult someone. is that really needed?? i can only magine being in her situation and it must be hard to live with all the shit that`s being thrown at axl, but why does she have to become so defensive and insulting, when she knows the truth?  and it`s NOT like most people on this board don?t believe her when she clears something up...

can you blame a gnrfan for being dissapointed or skeptical at the moment?? ( or one week ago for that matter?)  NO, you can`t. rock am ring made me believe in this band again, but before that i was skeptical as well. and before axl posted his letter, i was pissed off as well! beta and del could only insult the fans on the internet, while axl finally said sorry.....

this board plays a major role in me being a gnrfan. isn`t it quite understandable, that i don?t want this to be destroyed??


and well....  if a fire marshall is able to make shit up in order to look good in the public, isn?t it possible that the gnr camp also sometimes likes to beautify the truth a little?

That's not why he's being called a joke.

Treat others as you would expect others to treat you.

All this bitching and censorship is madness.

It's like communism never went away.

... No. Look man, I said


as well as


so, as you can see, it isn't the case that ''in this case, they get called utter jokes.' Because that isn't the case!

As Adz said,

did i mention i wasn`t only talking about dave?

well anyways....  i`m done for today. have fun people :peace:

Actually, it's libel.

You're right, my bad.
What the fire marshall said is slander then I suppose.

wow a mod making personal attacks, if that was a poster he would? have been banned.? This is what this board has become, and jim again you can say what ever you want, I am sorry you are a loser and must make personal attacks on a message board to make your sorry life have meaning. And you call me a joke. LOL

You could always come to another board where the mods and admin don't slag their members off, censor people's posts and allow both sides of an argument to be discussed. :peace:

A loser, eh?

Taste negative karma!

Seriously though.... Personal attacks? Maybe I did. But it wasn't in this thread. And come on. It's not like it was to your face.

But, personal attacks here? Calling somebody a joke isn't really a personal attack now, is it.

(I forgot to add, dude... This is hillarious!


spot the contradiction or what! Bwahahahaha.)

why did you change the topic title? did the previous one make you look like too much of an ego-tripper?

Talk about negative karma, you should give yourself negative karma for starting the name calling. But of course because its coming from a mod its not a person attack, but if it was from anyone else (a poster) they would have gotten a warning. And who cares about negative karma. Give me -100 karma it would just make this board lose that much more cred because someone defended theirself to a mod making a personal attack. Jarmo has warned people for saying much less.

don't just say it, do it, i can count the times he has called this place a joke and people who don't agree with him losers lately on about three hands.

No because that is not even the topic of this thread anymore thanks to ADZ. Plus like 4 different threads have been merged into this topic.

i like you dave, you were always one of the most persistant defenders of axl, so i have a hard time understanding why lately you want to view everything in a negative light regarding both the band and this board. why the change?

Bit of trivia for you: we can't give ourselves positive or negative karma.

And come on now. Saying that you are an. absolute. joke. has more to do with your credibility, you know, because it comes across that you think you really are the salt of this site, or rather, the GNR community. You know, what makes it up and all. It's not the same as calling you a 'complete fucking idiot.'

Once again, you are a joke because of your method, your approach and, well... To be honest I only really said it because you were adament that you had more 'cred' (bwahaha) than Adz. Originally I only intended to reply in response to that.

Not to mention the fact that you come across as being very arrogant when it comes to your views.

(even if it is the 'view' to allow others to their views. Hey!)

Simple, attention.

Dude your a punk.

Leave Dave alone.. reading this thread is giving me a headache. People are stooping low. Dave is a big fucking fan, in the same way I am, Jarmo is, or you are. Isn't that all that matters?

You don't have to agree with the band all the time to be a "fan" or "axl lover." If we all agree with everything, why have a forum to discuss things?

It's getting out of hand.

you don't even know me, and i suggest you take a first grade spelling lesson before you attempt to insult or even address me again. good day.

I agree with Jack. This ain't a cult, we don't all have to agree with everything and ignore events outside of the sacred circle  : ok:

 :hihi:

Commenting on peoples spelling when you can't even capitalize your letters or punctuate properly?

And what did I spell wrong exactly?

Your a joke man. You have no real position to argue upon so you just comment on something as trivial as someones spelling.

Perhaps 2007what! was commenting on the word 'your'. In the UK it is spelt you're but as far as I am aware in America it's usually spelt the way you typed it?

why do you call me a joke and a punk? check my message history, not once have i insulted you, dave or any other members of this board. talking about stooping low all while you insult me over nothing? what's wrong with you? i offered my opinion and asked dave a sincere question, why don't you address your unfounded anger to someone who has actually attacked either you or dave or any other member of this board, because unlike you i haven't. now stop talking to me, it's freaking me out.

no. i believe even in america they use grammar.

Its all about respect. Calling me or anyone a liar and/or a hater because of info obtained ?(from a legit source) or an opinion that differs from the band is wrong. What they should be doing instead of censoring this board, just say, well that is not the info the band gave out, I (the mod) will believe that and you can believe what you want. If that happened then it would just end, but the mods here not have to tear into the person and claim they are posting bullshit when there is proof that "theory" could be the truth. Just because its not allowed to be posted on this board doesnt mean it cant be the truth just because it didnt come from the gnr camp. Just because I dont think the gnr camp was being truthful on maine or because I dont think axl wrote that letter (which axl probably never wrote that many press releases) doesnt mean I am  a hater or a bullshit spreader but that is what the mods like to claim I or anyone else is that post things that dont blindly follow everything this band says

Nearly all American posts I've ever read use the word your rather that you're.

Not saying they all do but as an observation it does appear to be commonly used.

Could have been it.


And yeah, actually, your correct.

I read the thread and felt kind of disgusted so my anger was misdirected. I didn't mean to insult you and I honestly apologize. I'm sorry 2007what.

Can't we all just get along?  :peace:

And seriously, 2007, you're right. My bad.

well, that just means the posters lack intelligence. simple as that. i learned the difference between "your" and "you're" when i was like 7, but that's beside the point of this thread. all i did was defend myself against this rabid person who attacked me twice over nothing.

it's fine, i have better things to do than to sit here and argue anyway. peace.

Yeah we appear to be ruining the vibe of this thread  :hihi:

I thought we could maybe distract everyone from the original issue but we failed :(

Peace

Fancy trying the straight answer path again? You ignored me last time.

Let's give it a bash. Direct me!

And remember... Mods. You pluralized it.  :)

Which means you're going to need multiple examples, buddy!

You, adz and jarmo.
You lose.

What the FUCK are you talking about? I have not once called you a hater, nor would I even care if you were!

Dude, you're a mentalist.

Thank you for illustrating my point, and showing that you are clearly delusional, would like to consider yourself of more importance (or interest for that matter) to us than you are, and clearly lack the ability to comprehend what you are reading. What self indulgent crap this sideshow is, and I think that you will find that I asked you to direct me, not list names. Wouldn't exactly hold up in court now, would it? Link me, because if you don't, well...

It is you who loses, my friend.

Big time.

False. I said you might get labeled a hater if you do certain things. I didn't say you were one.

My quote was:



So take it back please. I didn't label you specifically a hater. I explained what might get you (or anybody else posting here) the label from other people.




/jarmo

I've been reading Dave's posts for years, and it never occured to me he was a big BH fan. ?Unlike every Slash fan, who includes "Slash" in their forum handle and include it in their signature and bring it up everytime a guitar player is meantioned

I mean, I could have overlooked a bias, but uh - really, I haven't seen any. ?I think this may be an exaggeration that Dave's bitter about it. ?Or a bad surmise...because I couldn't ever tell, and I tried to read all of his posts.

Anyway, news to me that he's bitter about BH......

Then it's pretty clear to me that Dave hasn't done those things because of that list.  ?

Yep, same here. In fact, I actually said almost the opposite.

So take it back, about me too, please.  :)

Which leaves you with Adz (and this will be good), but either way you still need to reach your plural target, my friend.

It's up to you to decide whether or not you wanna label him.


/jarmo

As a relative newcomer to actively participating on HTGTH, and as someone who does not equate postcount with status, let me just say this:

Things have gotten awfullly weird around here in the past few months. ?From right around the time the RS article hit clear through now, in fact. ?Just my opinion, of course, but still - there's been a marked change in the...atmosphere of HTGTH. ?Deleted posts, lots of GnR-related things deemed "off-topic," "unavailable for discussion," etc. ?In spite of having reason after reason to celebrate and be happy about all things GnR, people continue to throw insults at one another, threads become quickly derailed by stupid, meaningless posts or inappropriate personal attacks that go on and on, many times between a mod and a poster. ?Meanwhile, other posts that do not fit into either of those categories are deleted due to discussing non-negotiable topics, whether they have to do with GnR or not. ?I'm far from one to jump on the paranoia bandwagon, (again, I've only been posting here during the past 12 months) but there has definintely been a change. ?

To those who are frustrated with the censorship/deletions/etc., I say this: ?I totally agree...it *is* frustrating. ? When I started reading this board years ago, it seemed that the main ground rule was that you loved GnR. ?All sides of issues were openly discussed, pro and con, and it was a great forum to speculate, appreciate, and connect with other fans. ?Recently, it seems that no matter how objective a post may be, or how much respect and adoration for the band a poster has, too many things that should be "allowed" for discussion are not. ?

True, much of what is said is rumor, and unsubstantiated rumor at best...but so what? ?In theory, isn't that what such a forum is for? ?Talking about your favorite band with other fans is one of the best thing about being a devoted fan, and that includes rumors. ?I assume we all care for very different and very personal reasons about the current and future success of GnR, we all want the album to be released, we all want the best for the band, etc. ?Me, I treat that as a given. ?If I get into a disagreement with someone around here, so be it - we still have that common love of GnR. ?

However, it also could be that the band is closer than they've ever been to releasing CD, tensions are high in certain circles, and there is a tremendous amount on the line right now. ?Assuming - and that's a colossal assumption - that this site is in any way working with the band, enforcing their wishes, whatever the case may be, I can only in turn assume that it's for a reason, and a very good one at that. ?

Suppose the negative spin that has resulted in the RS release date or Merk's actions have put undue pressure on the band or skyrocketed Axl's insecurities about putting the album out? ?Suppose the more negative the buzz gets, the more reluctant he is to continue working? ?And what if the Mods of this site now had to deal with an influx of "fans" who have only recently discovered GnR, and do not have a love or apprecation of the complex history behind the current band? ?And worse, that these "new fans" kept showing up in large numbers to take shots and complain? ?If such a thing were to be true, I'd do whatever I could to squelch that negative buzz myself simply because I so desperately want to hear that album and hold it in my hands, no matter how many fans or message board mainstays it might upset or alienate. ?

And if something I said on this board in any way contributed to further delaying the long-awaited album by my favorite band? ?Especially when it's safe to say those within or close to the band pay attention to what goes on around here? ?No matter how good my intentions were, or how fair and objective I was being, I'd have a very hard time forgiving myself....just not worth it.

So where does that leave me between now and March? ?On the sidelines, I suppose. ? I can't say participating on this board is doing much for my enjoyment of the band when I have to watch what I say and where I say it so it doesn't get deleted for whatever reason. ?When the band was totally silent for years, this was the place that helped me get my fix, and hope for the best in the the future.  Anymore, it seems to be only adding to the overall frustration.  So I'm following the "take a break" advice (at least from trying to post in most of the GnR threads), and we'll see how things play out from there. ?In the meantime, I hope things get a bit more back to normal around these parts...but not as much as I hope CD comes out in March. ? ? ?:beer:

Was dave-gnfnr2k banned? Bring him back!

Looks like Jarmo made Dave stand in the corner for a bit, I think he will be back. Dave was also made to stand in the corner after he wouldn't quit with his Portland cancelation theories.

Thanks for the entertainment on this laid back Sunday night!

You don't think HTGTH allows discussion of "valid" Gn'R topics? ?Fine, go to the numerous other forums that allow those discussions.

I come to HTGTH to read real discussions. ?Not questions of whether a RS Nov. 21st date is legit. ?Not about what some ego-tripping fire marshal thinks. ? jarmo and his crew here continue to uphold an ideal of having a large forum, with thousands of users, without allowing threads to turn into garbage. ?Nothing has changed in that regard, and constant questioning of jarmo and how he runs things is always putting him on the defensive.

The HTGTH forum is a huge forum. ?It needs constant baby-sitting. ?It needs constant moderating. ?The fact that certain topics of discussion are off-limits might seem excessive, but consider the alternative! ?Can you find another forum of this size that allows these so-called "objective" topics of conversations and is not bogged down in crap? ?You might want to consider how long jarmo has been running this forum. ?I believe he runs things a certain way because he knows how to run a forum like this. ?He has experience. ?The nuances might not be so obvious to someone on the "outside", but I've been a part of many large forums and never seen one run so well.

jarmo's priority is, I believe, and should be, to run a good forum. ?With a forum of this size, the little things become big things, and his constant diligence as well as discipline are what make this forum great.

So, discussion continues to be allowed. ?Bullshit continues to not be allowed. ?Cheers, HTGTH. ? :beer:

Regarding dave, I think everyone who's been here for awhile appreciates his love of Gn'R, but as Booker Floyd put it, lately, his posts have become bizarre.? It's hard to know what to think, but something is seriously wrong there, and unfortunately, his anger has just given more people outlets to be idiots.? I look forward to dave's return - the old dave.

Who the hell are you to demand that dave be brought back?  ::)

He's not demanding anything. ::)

"Bring him back!" sure as hell seems like demanding for him to be brought back to me.  : ok:

Oh really? How about this:


Here is another similar post where you blame Slash and Duff for hindering Axl music career:


I also find it cute that you put a disclaimer tag informing others your opinion; however, your disclaimer is only good for this board. Are you going to put a disclaimer underneath all your post on every board you post on? Your solution is like putting a band-aid on cancer. If you really wanted to satisfy me than delete your disclaimer and just change the way in which you write.

Also, it is obvious that when discussing preference in music that it is your opinion. However, I have a problem with you making clams like TWAT being removed from the setlist because Ron can't play it. You sate such things as facts.

As the world turns.............

Doc Mcghee hasnt managed Motley since the Russian peace Festival in 89 I think it was.  they fired him cause bon jovi got pyro and more stage time.

Well like I said I wasn't sure, but I do know their not on Sanctuary. Tommy Lee as a solo artist is though.

who the hell are you to tell him to stop saying what he wants?

It isn't his place to demand for anyone to be brought back. I'm pretty sure Jarmo don't appreciate people demanding him to do things...

depends on who those ppl are  ::)

It's not a demand, it's an expression. For some reason I thought people would understand such...... ::)

If you ever got banned, I wonder how many people would start a petition to bring you back?

hopefully no one, cause I despise those kinds of petitions  : ok:

My two cents:

I think that Dave has become bitter because he was called out by both Merck and Beta. He found out that those connected with the band didn't appreciate him saying what he was passing off as fact, when in the end it was all unsubstantiated rumors. I suppose if I were in his shoes, it would sting a bit too. However, in the end it IS Dave's own fault for passing all of these things off as true in the first place when he never had a valid source.

Dave - do you really think that a fire marshall in Portland, Maine is going to take the heat for canceling a show? I know if I were in his shoes, I sure as hell wouldn't! I'd be in fear of my life from rabid fans of the band.

And like many others, I see Dave as someone who only does what he does for attention around here. His "don't ever doubt me" post on mygnr was the kicker. Yeah, Dave, we won't doubt you when you pass things off as fact that you know NOTHING about. You called me into a chat room on AIM as soon as the letter was posted saying how it wasn't really Axl that wrote it, etc. I love how you figured it out less than 10 minutes after it was posted.

Please, for your own sanity - log off of the computer for once in your life, and go outside. I thought I was a computer junkie, but I have a job, a girlfriend, a life, friends, etc. I get out of the house at least once a day and do something productive other than posting my beliefs on an internet message board and passing them off as facts.

Axl said it best:

"Your satisfaction lies in your illusions - and your delusions are yours and not mine. We take for granted we know the whole story. We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines."

Dave - in the end, you're just beating a dead horse. You sound like a broken record at this point. You're accusing Jarmo of avoiding your questions, when he's giving you answers. You're the one that's unable to back up any of your allegations with facts.

Before you repeat yourself for the millionth time...

"The fire marshalls and the newspapers are telling the truth! They never lie! They have to tell the truth!"

There, I saved you some trouble.

Dave admitted over at the bar that the main reason he was flipping out was because he hasn't gotten laid in months. That should tell you a lot about the guy...

Link? :confused:

That should tell us what? Guys have done far worse things in that situation. A very natural reaction.


You using it as a reason to slam him tells me alot more.

http://p087.ezboard.com/fgunsnroses14385thegnrbar.showMessageRange?topicID=35999.topic&start=1&stop=20

I didnt even see where he posted it but damn I've never heard of that site but they seem to have ALOT of posts from the members post counts, weird. But just reading the front page, a site that allows that kind of bashing, isn't a good one.

Real mature.

He asked for a link and I gave it to him, do you want me to be rude and say "no i wont give you a link go fuck yourself?"

Haha, real cute. I wonder what made him ask for the link in the first place. That's what I'm talking about.

Dont you think the members here deserve to know the real reason Dave flipped out? I certainly think they do...

I don't think the members need to see you using others personal problems to elevate yourself. But hey, I'm not the one looking like a dick right now.

I'm not elevating myself, I'm letting people know what they were trying to figure out (which is the real reason Dave has been acting so weird in the past few months).

Shit, I just lost an hour....chineseblues, I'm sending you a bill ;)

:hihi:

edit after reading the posts posted while I was posting...I don't see anything wrong with posting a link to where Dave was explaining himself  ???

That's because there isn't, that pollexum guy has been following me around bitching about anything I've been posting for like a week now...

No? That why you had to include this ? Does that seem like "letting the members know"? Or is it more like "hey, look what an idiot Dave is. He can't get laid, how patethic"?

I don't even know why I bother. Anybody with half a brain can see what's really going on here.

Only when you post bullshit.

To be real mature, who posted in this thread first?

Fifteen pages of ego.  :-\

The Bar is a great place to hang out and talk about all sorts of things. I'll talk to Shelly and ask her to contact you.

Admittedly, the entire thread sucks big time but it orginated here and bled over when dave was booted.

It's been around for ages.

No need to bash the whole place because there are a few clueless people posting there.

It wouldn't be fair, I respect Shelly and Michelle.



/jarmo

stop getting so defensive :rofl:

actually over at the bar this is the reason he gave for flipping out:

gnfnr2k
Axl's #1 Supporter
Posts: 9072
(12/17/06 4:04 pm)
Reply
  Re: Congrats Jarmo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 yeah fuck jarmo
i used to defend that asshole but fuck him
he banned me because i had legit questions
he wonders why a lot of the long time posters have left his board.
that place is like nazi germany and anything that questions the band, he gets all pissy

Edited by: gnfnr2k at: 12/17/06 4:05 pm
 

Hah. Do we need that guy here? I think not. Cool post anyway :hihi:

he`s flipping out, because he hasn`t get laid in months??

that?s a little hard to believe... :-\

read the thread he is the one who said it.

Shows how clueless the guy is.

He was banned for being an annoying motherfucker.

The only thing that baffles me is why it took so long to ban him in the first place! If I were Jarmo, he would have been gone a long time ago!  :hihi:

wow, this was a crazy thread to read, I was just chilling watching Identity here , and reading this thread, I think SLC said a post eluding to a soap opera, As the world turns or something. talk about multitasking entertainment.lol Watching TV, on my pc as I surf and read or post .

   Im not into bashing or ripping on people and for the life of me I cant understand why all the aggravation. IT seems silly to me for Dave arguing about things that at the end of the day really are meaningless, and inconsequential to the whole story. And to say or claim things on behalf of people who really know , well .......ah no need to go on, but the truth is, you either take facts as they are , or not. Debates are great when there are real points  of reference, this was one long thread of egotism.

 

Ditto.  Between this and the "don't ever doubt me again" thread at MyGNR, I am just sitting here shaking my head at this guy. 

This is my last post ever on this board. Someone sent me your post and I wanted to reply.
I am sure this will get deleted but what ever.
First off Beta calling me out was a joke. First off she is full of shit.
She claimed mercks last show because he was fired was before thanksgiving  yet Look at these posts

"Quote from: ryanb964 on Today at 01:45:36 AM
Merck was standing right to the side of me when GN'R were in Minneapolis. Right side of the stage there was a little fenced off place there, and Bach's band and Merck and his woman were watching Gn'R's set.

Quote From FunkyMonkey

Interesting...Yankeeman32 was seated next to me at the Minneapolis show and he said to me "look there is Merck".  I was too interested in the band to really care to find him...but he saw him too"


OH yeah two people saw him AFTER he was so called fired before thanksgiving plus the person I know who went to the show that also saws merck at a show in DECEMBER. Again Beta has no cred. Yet I am full of shit because she claimed he was not at the shows.

AS for merck calling me out again its a joke that his words were so golden on here until axl fired  him then even he cant post here now. What a joke.  As for the portland thing anyone who thinks the fire  marshal would lie is a fucking idiot. Its his job to give a reason why the show would not go on and all these people that say oh he would never admit he was the reason the show was cancelled. OH just like Axl would not admit he was the reason because he could drink and bc the place was only 1/3 full. And the real joke is the reason meck called me out and say what he did was because of the maine thing and bc I asked if it was true that CD got pushed back to 2007.

When the Maine thing we still have two sides and CD getting pushed back to 2004 turned out to be true even tho merck said I was full of shit and it was coming out this year.

Any fan of this band knows they bend the truth and if you dont  think that then you really are cluess. Axl has never taken any responsibilty for anything. Be it riots, no shows, walking off, tours getting cancelled and the album not being out. Yeah when some one calls him on CD not being out in 2007 when all those other times getting the bennifit of the doubt, now I am not a fan anymore? That is laughable.


Jarmo never gave a legit answer yet you claim I was beating a dead horse. Jarmo claims I dont know the truth yet he claims to the know the real truth because the band told him LOL What a joke. Jamo doesnt know anymore than me or you what the truth yet I am a liar for believing what the fire marshal said.

And I am a liar and hater for posting the merck letter? The letter was postiive.  And I loved how you claim I cant back myself up with facts when the real fact is I did yet Jarmo deletes them.

OH but of course you did not think of that now did you? That is because Jarmo doesnt want to give you all the info so you can decided what you want to belive for yourself and that was my major beef about everything. Its easy to edit posts out and lose what the real story of everything is but that is what Jarmo does best.

As for the gettind laid thing some of  you really need to know what sarcasm is.

There is a reason more and more long time posters have jumped ship from this board and there is a reason why Jarmo is a joke for deleting all posts he is deemed just a tad against what he believes. The funny thing is this and Jarmo should wake the fuck up.

Axl is your best friend when you do his bidding but you just do one thing he doesnt like or he needs a new person you blame he throws you away. Merck learned that lesson the hard way. Jarmo will someday too when his board is all newbies and all the good long time posters have left, then Axl gives jarmo the boot. He will be left with his shitty forum and will wonder what happened.

Some of you really need to get a clue on this board and look at the real reason this album is not out. Its Axl not anyone else.

And one more thing. Justs wait until  Jarmo stacks hacking up your posts and censoring you, then you will be just as pissed off as I was and others. That is what this was really about and of course be disrespected because the powers that be on this board and that lackey beta want to hide all the facts so people can make up their minds. But the thing is they cant censor the internet or the news.

Bye dave, you definately made the board more entertaining. :)

lol, even in his "last post" he's still saying the same old shit, couldn't even be original, lol he'll be back, not that I wouldn't mind if he dissapeared forever though, but yeah, he'll be back and he will say the exact same things again :)

   Dave have a great one, I bet you?ll find people who can buy your crap, I just can?t ... :hihi:   and you know what?  the band doesn?t owe fans explanations honey, we love them for free... it?s free choice, not satisfied go listen to green day, Velvet or whatever else....  : ok:    bye man! Merry Xmas, happy New Year !!!!  :smoking: have

Later Dave.

Sorry to see you go.  :no:

First off, learn that you can't have 2 "first off's" in one post.



You are the clueless fuckin idiot here for insulting people cause they don't believe the same shit you do.



YOU don't know shit about what Jarmo knows.

And stop busting our balls with that fuckin fire marshal. But what am I saying... this was your last post, right?


QUANTITY DOES NOT EQUAL QUALITY. I prefer "newbies" with quality posts, than "long-time" posters who have nothing but shit to add to the discussion.



You know so much. You and Axl must have been great friends, right? But noone will answer, this was your last post...



Damn it man, you know so much. I mean, you must have been so close to the band...

And then that awfull day came when Beta called you a hater...

And what do you do?

You keep on proving her right...  : ok:

... Bwahahaha. I sincerely hope that you are not, at best considering, god forbid including, yourself amongst 'good, long time posters?'

'Infamous,' maybe. Notorious? I don't know, but the fact is that while you are reasonably well known amongst the gnr community (online behind computers, of course), that ain't necesarily no good thing. And the GNR community (online I thank ye) takes all sorts, so given your whopping post count, the law of averages surely tells us that you are going to find some people who sympathize with your cause!

You know, I did used to feel a bit sorry for you. That was before I realized just how self involved you are; I had always just thought you naive, and while I would cringe when reading your posts I would give you the benefit of the doubt, think that maybe the reason you came across as being so blindly involved with your own opinion wasn't because you were an arsehole. I guess I was wrong, son.

Anyway. I'd take a forum full of newbies over one filled with long time total. fucking. jokers. any day of the week.

Cheerio mate,

have a good one,

keep the promise.

Of course, you won't be reading this. See ya round.

There goes a clown.

(http://209.85.48.8/9775/192/emo/41.gif)

where?

Oh yeah, i know what you mean.

I cannot believe how seriously some of you take yourselves when it comes to being an expert on this band.  To call out Beta as full of shit?  Why don't you say that to her face?  Everyone is so tough when they're sitting in their underwear typing away at their computer.

I believe that's what they refer to on this series of tubes we know as The Internet as a good whopping dosage of "PWNAGE"!

Dave needs a break, arguing over whether or not GNR's manager was backstage at a certain show-come on-take a break, like Axl said-also Axl himself has only announced one release date so far, lots of bands say they are aiming for "spring 2007", and often don't make it-VR Contraband was pushed back a few times, I remember-I know it's different because for GNR it's been 16 years inbetween releases...lol, but if you are starting to overanalyze reasons for concert cancellations (which happens a lot with many artists-Gretchen Wilson cancelled a concert here in CLeve. last year due to scheduling conflicts-I doubt there is a thread in her message boards about it), or worring about what concerts Merk was at, it's time to take a break-it's GNR-if you are a die hard fan like a lot of us, you know how some things are-maybe it would be best if we could go back to 2003-2005 when there was nothng-it was a great year for them, I think-we are just waiting on an album release-if you find yourself starting to feel angry about, or hate new GNR, VR, then maybe it's best not to post on the boards anymore-not saying you can't complain about certain things, but complaining about concerts you are not even attending is a bit silly

Things will certainly be less...lively around here with Dave gone.

(c) Sante D'Orazio, L'Uomo Vogue 2006.

bye.

lol what is it with calling the board a nazi forum....

surely the moderators are communists!!!  ::)

Maybe dave knows a couple of people that saw Bigfoot too.

LOL, this was the only decent post in the entire thread, thanks!

so long dave, i used to respect you but now you just manage to portray yourself as a sorry, self-obsessed loser. you call other people losers and you want the respect of the GN'R community (and probably in your own mind axl), yet you call one of axl's best friends "full of shit" and accuse her of having "no cred", because she called you out on your blatant lies. well, i think i speak for quite a few people when i say that the online GN'R community certainly don't need that kind of shit. so so long dave, what are you going to do when CD drops and GN'R is everywhere again? will you be able to resist coming back to this board? i, for one, won't welcome you back.

Perhaps this thread needs renamed..."politics of Dave?"

Agreed.

Cracked me up.  :hihi:

Wow, I just read this whole thread, anyway here's my .02.....

1)Who cares if Axl did or did not write that letter, I'm very sure he approved it and made sure it said exactly what he wanted it to say, if he had an attorney write it, so what, it really doesn't matter.

2)The Portland cancelation, I have no clue about, sounds like that city had some donkey ass laws, Dave is a LONG time supporter of the band, if he has his own sources and says he knows there is more to the story, I guess it's on you to believe him or not, like I said, I have no clue...

3)If it is being reported as fact that Merck was FIRED before Thanksgiving, I STRONGLY disagree with that statement, I know for fact certain people had discussions with Merck on status of gnr shows/etc after thanksgiving and never once did he mention he was fired+ he also made accomidations for certain people at shows after thanksgiving.

4)I do agree it's wierd that Merck helped out this board with all the pre-sales... trusted Jarmo with running the presales, communicated with Jarmo, and now Merck's response letter is censored, people should be able to read both sides statement's and decide their own truths, I've never liked censoring of any kind unless it's just blatant mis-information like "oh my god, buckethead got his ribs removed to give himself a blowjob."

5)This thread went to far, Dave has been a long time supporter of gnr and a good poster on the board, either the mods or Dave should have took it upon themselves to just let it die...

6)This quote is a fucking gem.... "First off, learn that you can't have 2 "first off's" in one post." :hihi:

3) a) Merck would never mention he was fired because he is professional
? ? b) He probably made accomodations even for people at LA shows, but those are promised & organized months ahead

4) jarmo explained it...

5) Thank God dave is gone and it is over...

Merry Christmas,

velimir

What a totally fair take on what's gone on in this thread and around this board in the past weeks and months.  If only more posts (and board posters) were as level-headed...it woud be a refreshing change of pace!  I'm in total agreement with #3 and #4, but it appears the less said about those topics, the better, and like it or not - to participate here, the rules should be respected, regardless of whether they change from time to time or not...

And I had thought that Bucket looked more...flexible on stage than he had in the past.   At least now I know why.    :peace:

In regards to 3, the accomidations were made on the day of the 25th, for a show on the 26th, the accomidations were made by Merck himself.

Merry xmas to all here too. :peace:

I agree, you should adhere to board rules, and it seems these are touchy subjects at this time, so I will only discuss some of these issues via pm from now on as I do enjoy this board, at some point in this topic Dave just should have took some arguments to pm, when the arguments degenerate to just name calling/etc... they just need to be let die or the topic locked.

This board is like 'Nam.  Some people just ain't right, once they've been here.  ;D

Who wears underwear when they are typing at their computer?  :hihi:

Yea, im pretty sure must of us are completely nude when we type.

Cogressman Foley?

I think Foley is nude and the 16 year boys that he molests have  to wear underwear, but  it might be the  other  way around. Not sure,  the relevant info was not in the press release.

I agree.  ;)