Here Today... Gone To Hell!

i can't believe jarmo is deleting merck's message. what the fuck is wrong with you? would you like to explain yourself and why you're playing gestapo?

I think jarmo is offline. Not that it makes any difference.  :-\

I say the same but in a more gentle way.

I think most of us would like to know why Merck's statement isn't allowed here.

speaking of censorship



xBrownstonex @ - is that a real pic of you in your avatar ?

you wish :)

And you're surprised by that?, this board never allows discussion of both sides of a story? ::)

Mercks letter probably won't even get posted in the news? section :no:

simple ....


Merc is not int eh gnr camp anymore , is any letter from him even relevant?

He was part of GN'R yesterday, so yeah ::)

If Robind would quit/get fired from Guns N' Roses today, and tomorrow he would post a letter about it on his webpage, would you think it's "relevant"?

Ofcourse it's relevant, It's only fair to hear and DISCUSS both sides of the story

By your logic it wouldn't even be possible to discuss an article written by mtv because they're not in the gnr camp ?::)

If mtc posted a press release saying axl did this didnt do that but tried that then it would be rumored , and that is exactly what merck is talking about with all his mouse cliche

The cencorship on the discussion thread is outrageous and it's only getting worse!  :rant:

Get your comparisons right. This isn't MTV or some other entity not connected to GN'R. It's their fucking manager who have worked closely with the man for years sharing his view on the situation. How is that not relevant?

And what is a mouse cliche?

werent you people friends with merck (in a matter of speaking) up to a few days ago, and now you are censoring him?!

isnt that a little hypocritical? to quote Trent Reznor, "do you bite the hand that feeds you?"


but from a diferent viewpoint, isnt it kinda ironic, that merck who requested some things to get censored in the past is now getting censored him self?


ah, but who gives, a fuck...
we have 81 days till CD....

Well, since Axl has come up with a date (even a tentative one), that's good enough for me!

There's no point in sticking aroung here any longer and being cencored.

I'll take his advice and take a break.

You know where to find me.  :)

 :peace:

yea.. htgth sux. see you there

I honestly thought that they would lighten up on it, since we've had some news.

But instead it's getting worse.   My posts about Axl's letter in the thread about Axl's letter were even removed.   Not sure if someone just got carried away and in deleting the posts en-masse but it's just crazy.

I wonder how long that thread would be if they HADN'T been deleting everything but the "Go Axl my Homie" threads?

This used to be an awesome forum.   Right now it's crazy.   The policing is ridiculously heavy.

The strange thing is that Merck's letter actually was to the fans, and we are fans on this board!

Did everyone else get the "bitchslap" personal email that says to come over here to this "hidden away" forum do to our bitching about the censorship of Merck's message?

Fuck this. And I just made my own HTGTH t-shirt to wear to the Cleveland show.

"Fan Site" this is not. "Worship Site" perhaps.

Sure I'll be counting down the days to what I hope will be the release date, but I'll be doing it elsewhere.

OUT!

But it's not about being fans. ? It's about posting with the HTGTH mentality. ? As a fan you're allowed to criticize the band, just don't do it here.

I admit to not being here to see all this, but I cant see why you guys are getting so agitated.... I mean, we just got the release date from AXL's MOUTH!  :o
 

this thread is about the deletion of the merc letter censorship , not axl . And if you didn't hear Axl personally say this stuff then you have to grab it with a grain of salt.


I didnt hear axl say anything personally from his mouth

Like the 06 promise you mean? :rofl:

No, we got a TENTATIVE Date.


However - even my discussion about what TENTATIVE really means (since it's misunderstood) was forbidden. ?

I wasn't bashing Axl, or the band or anyone else. ?Just trying to discuss the Axl letter in the Axl thread and that's not allowed. ? Not unless it's a "praise Axl".

It was removed so get over it. They obviously have a reason why they dont want it posted so why bother arguing and bitching  about it? What do you think it will accomplish?

Nothing, except getting to vent.

But an explanation would be nice though.

I am going to vent here as well.  I think Merck's letter is very informational and filled with nothing but praise for Axl and the band and can see no logical reason for it not to be here.  Anyone who actually has read it has to agree with this.

This used to be a GNR discussion forum. ? And it IS GNR related.

So why are you deleting posts about mercks letter? makes no sense

I'm sure most of us do. I don't know, sometimes I get the feeling this site is run by people on a paycheck instead of fans. I know it's not, but some of the things that are happening here just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Where did I say anything about that? Read what  I said again because you obviously don't understand what i meant.

So what's your personal opinion on this ChineseBlues?

I'm asking cause you seem to be one of the few supporters of their policy. Guess I just wanna pick your brain a little :smoking:

Sorry, guess I didn't put the dots close enough together.

First of all, we got a 'tentative' release date that we hope it will be out by.

Second, Merck's statements elude to some possible issues with Axl (I like how Merck refers to the muse as "her") being unavailable to work on the album when recording sessions were scheduled and that the NA tour continued as a cash-grab so they could afford to keep working on CD, which has been speculated before. Now can I be sure that Merck isn't lying - no. Can I be sure that everything in Axl's statement is true - no. If Axl's statement deserves the benefit of the doubt, I can't see why Merck's doesn't also.

And third, I JUST GOT NEGATIVE KARMA!!!! ?:o ? I've done way more good for this band than I've done harm. I talk them up to friends that just roll their eyes back at me. I tell people how phenominal the new album is gonna be when it is released before the end of the year. I invite friends and relatives to the shows that normally wouldn't attend. And I've given free promo to this site by wearing my personalized HTGTH shirt to the Cleveland show.

Uuuuuuuuugggggghhhhhh!

Well, I usually agree with the things that get deleted I just really have to say I don't agree with this at all. ?The letter gives a real insight into what went on this past tour regarding the record and the record company and I think fans on here would like to read it. ?

Well, that is the correct way of refering it.

You got negative karma not because of a lack of support for the band. You got it for one of the posts you made, and I'm sure you know which one.

I understand that the idea of a muse would be of a woman, but the way it was used to refer to Axl, I found a bit ammusing.

so please explain why you delete these posts about the letter?

Yeah, I know which one.

Muse is just an alternate word for "inspiration" really and it is almost always used in conjunction with something feminine. ?It's not negative at all. ?

Why are my posts about Axl's letter being removed from the thread about Axl's letter? ? ?I'm not bashing the band, Axl or Merck. ? It's just discussion.

We REALLY need a list of the acceptable topics. ? Perhaps you guys can come up with all the acceptable replies and we can just copy and paste that replies into each thread rather than risk coming up with them ourselves.

Easier for you guys (not removing a million posts a day) and easier for us (not having to stress about whether we're allowed to post something or not).

I'll start:

Allowed posts:

"HTGTH Rocks"

"Axl is God"

"Thanks for the letter Axl"

You guys feel free to contribute.

It's not used to refer to Axl. It's used to paint the picture of his recording struggles.

But yeah, it could be an extremely subtle jab at him. But I think the jab lay more in his inabillity to work than the use of 'her'.

It's not a jab.   Anyone offended by it clearly doesn't understand the word.   If that's the reason that it's being removed then it's a fucking disgrace and the people that made the decision need a fucking education.

You're right, in the context it isn't a jab at all.  To work on something you need inspiration or as Merck states, a muse (which is always a word used in conjunction with something or someone feminine).  I believe that is all he meant by it. :peace:

I stand corrected.

I went back and re-read the statement and I have a better understanding now. I understood it to mean that Axl wasn't showing up at these recording session when in fact has was there, but his inspiration was not.

Since I've been on and whole-heartedly supported the band and never had positive Karma, what do I need to do to get outta the whole?

Most probably not, and I believe that too. But there is the possibillity of a jab there if you want it to be.

i think censorship is too heavy at the moment  :(

This is a GN'R site which means this is where you'll find things the band wants their fans to know, such as the letter from Axl.

I feel honoured that the band have chosen this site to be one of the channels used to reach out to us fans. It's definitely not something I ever imagined happening when I started the site over ten years ago.

With that in mind, other people, who aren't involved with the band, might not be able to get their messages posted here. They probably have other ways of getting their messages across anyway.

Like the message on VR's site earlier this year, like all the stupid digs at the band that various people have taken. I don't feel like I have to give people like that more publicity by posting their comments.

In many cases these articles and such are full of lies and speculation. The only thing that comes out of those discussions are posts filled with "these guys suck!", "what a bunch of idiots", "they're right!" and so on.

I don't feel like we need to have that kind of discussions.


I'm speaking generally here and regarding the question in this thread, I can only say it's business as usual as far as I'm concerned. You have Axl's letter here, whatever the rest of the world says is posted somewhere else.

Thank you for understanding.



/jarmo

Well put Jarmo!

can you tell us if HTGTH is still financially supported by GNR (bandwidth or your salary, for example)?

and we know that you'll be honest, right???  :hihi:

Yesterday, if Merck would've said jump, you would have said how high. Now, that he's no longer in management, you don't wanna give him publicity anymore? I'm not a fan of Merck, but your attitude is very sad...

So since yesterday he's not longer relevant to any discussion? 

I've never really openly critized you Jarmo but for fucks sake stop being such a damn lapdog? :no:

Does this new rule apply to anyone externally commenting on the band, or only those who's comments are positive? I would hope that the rule will cut both ways and encompass all positive and negative comments made by people not involved with the band, because to only filter the negative ones could be construed as nothing but a propaganda campaign. I know the integrity of this site is above that.

This is Guns N' Roses fans site. (Un)fortunately Merck & Guns N' Roses decided to go separate ways. I am sure there is a mutual respect for what has been done in past 5 years. And I think Merck has been great manager... but this is Guns N' Roses site and they chose it to send a message to their fans. This is not a Merck fans site. (Un)fortunately you can not seat on two chairs at the same time...

Not opnly that But i want to really thank jarmo for staying on that path

I wish Jarmo would answer this question ^^

.....as it gets narrower and narrower.

That is his personal business, and he does not have to answer to us. However, it does not take a genius to read between the lines about the situation. Draw your own conclusions, just leave them off the board.

Think about this phrase for a moment: Guns N' Roses

That's what this site is dedicated to.




We're doing the same thing we did yesterday, a week ago, last month etc.

Nothing has changed regarding the board. 

Merck is gone, but it doesn't mean the policies are gonna change.







/jarmo

i wish not... first of all it is totally irrelevant... second of all he already answered it few times...

Thanks for the answer Jarmo!  :)

FUCK that jarmo.

you know damn well that merck's statement is relevant. you fucking know it. you would have gotten down on your knees not less than 12 hours ago to get half as much info from him, and now you delete any and all related posts?

i read the rules and i found nothing saying i couldnt post the things that were deleted. i havent been posting as much recently, and i didnt realize how much you guys had changed.

waaaaaaaaa censorship  :crying: :crying: :crying:

theres probably 20 GNR boards out there.  if you dont like how this one is run, cool visit another one.   Jarmo is a liason between us and the band, this site was chosen as a means to communicate with the fans.   The news posted here is the news that comes FROM the band.   The outsiders view can be found elsewhere.    I for one support this band and this board.   If you dont like it, its more than understandable, but at least have some respect for the board and the fans here.

He isn't involved with the band anymore.

12 hours ago he wasn't either....





/jarmo

But you can agree that up until yesterday Merck was regarded as a member of the GNR camp and information he knows is still very relevent. ?It's not like someone who posts a biased review of a show, his statements pretty much just added some more info (from the inside view which he had until yesterday) to what Axl revealed.

I support this site and always will, it's just kind of weird to banish someone's opinion who was an important part of GNR (and is self admittedly still a FAN) for a long time and still has current knowledge of the album.

Jarmo thinks Axl will be delighted that he cleans up anything that shows him in some poor light.? Probably hopes Axl will use him as the official liasion for communication (if that isn't already true).? If it is, just come out and say it.? If not, I wouldn't hold my breath.

jarmo if you are saying that merck isnt involved and is not relevant to this band, then i challenge you to go delete every since post from the last 4 months that talks about the number of tuesday's left in 2006. cause we talked about that every single day since september and that was STRAIGHT FROM HIS FUCKING MOUTH.

and now we cant even discuss a letter he posts, obviously trying to communicate with us?

i just dont understand.

i think it's cuz he pretty much claimed to have written axl's statement. why have 2 threads saying the same thing, when in actuallity all that needs to be read is what axl says....what merck says about the album release no longer has any relevance since he is no longer involved.

his input was relevant but not any more....just like if you were fired from your job....would your opinion still be a valid one to employees of that company?

You don't know this.

i think Jarmo has made clear the situation

That is kind of where I am at with this. In Merck's letter he enclosed the two emails he sent Axl of the template for the letter he "wrote" to everyone on the board. I am not quite sure how Axl's letter template could be construed as spreading lies or chaos, but I guess the new rules about not allowing band outsiders opinions to be posted is enforced across the board. If the direct source of Axl's letter is not seen as legitimate or relevant information, then I am not sure what we should really even bother posting that won't be removed.

True, but this is my opinion based on recent information and developments on this board the past couple months.

You should not be posting things like that as "fact". If Jarmo says so, then it is fact, if not, then you should put "I believe" in front of it.

I assumed such a claims as the one I made would be treated as an opinion since I have no inside knowledge.? I apologize if someone out there took my statement as absolute fact.

You hated him when he asked us not to discuss certain things.

How things change...




/jarmo

We still do hate him for effectively trying to run the band into the ground. I think alot of the "hate" spoken of is more to the overall policy of having the site be a piece of propaganda versus a fan message board.

There is clearly a time and place for filtering out things that are completely absurd or unrelated to the band, but information such as Merck's contribution that offer a better insite into what has been going on should not be taboo on a Guns fan message board.

I also think some of the censorship frustration would dissipate around here if it was just made clear to the board and its members on the news page up front for all to see that this is a management monitored board and is meant for propaganda purposes. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but call a spade a spade.

For Christ's sake! Who cares? Get over it, it was just a fucking letter. There are more important and positive things going on now. Hey, did you guys know that for the first time ever Axl gave us an exact date? You guys were so busy bitching that it's hard to tell if you've noticed it or not.

Even if Jarmo still does whatever Axl wants or tells him to do, I must say this place (and the whole GNR world) has just gotten a lot better.

Propaganda?

Is that what you feel it is because we focus on the band instead of focusing what everybody else says about them...

Ok...



/jarmo

It's not like Jarmo's hiding the letter from you. You can still read it and discuss it , just not here.
It's no real big deal, and I dont know why people are so upset about it.... I've been on a high all day since we got that letter from Axl last night!  :peace:

I understand why this is upsetting people, but I think it's a matter of keeping things under control for the time being, and I understand jarmo's reasoning behind deleting the Merck article.


I support HTGTH, but I hate frauds.

When you were a member on MyGNR you used to slag off HTGTH all the time. When people from HTGTH posted a news item there with a link back to this forum once, you started flaming them and saying how much HTGTH sucked.

But now that you were banned from the forum, suddenly you're all about HTGTH, eh? If you hate MyGNR why do you keep coming back under other accounts such as RonWong?

Have GNR asked the Merck statement not be discussed here then?

I think you have me mixed up with someone else.   get your facts striaght before you talk shit.  show me right now where I ever said one negative thing about this website.

I am not sure what else to call it. When you take and cherry pick certain information that only advances a selected agenda, that by it's definition is propaganda.

If your policy of focusing on the band only were consistent there might be some merit to your assertion. However, when you allow the opinions of "everybody else" to filter through, and obstruct those that aren't as complimentary, ?that is not focusing on the band.

It's your board and you are certainly entitled to run it as you wish as we are just guests here, but the lack of a consistent policy on outsider opinions supports the propaganda argument. When management tells you, Jarmo, don't let certain things through; their aim is to control the flow of information and advance an agenda. We will obviously have to agree to disgaree, but I am not sure how you can consider the board anything but a propaganda piece because the focus is not on the band, but only on allowing information beneficial to the band.

Then every newspaper in the country is propaganda....

Every TV channel... All radio stations...


They all choose to go with something. There's always somebody who has a different opinion that what they said.



/jarmo

I can't show you, because your account and posts were deleted.

Interesting to note your behavior here on the open forum differs from what you just sent me through Private Message. Don't use that racist slur anymore, it's horrible. I'm not a "fucking n!g*er" and I don't think you should be using such language - it's very unnecessary.

that shows you right there its bullshit.  those accounts are still there.   i dont know what your beef with me is yo, but no need to make up lies about me.   i dont like you either but i dont post shit about you.

the only forum i've ever bad mouthed is MyGNR.   any references I made to this site on that site were defending this site.    prove otherwise or you are a fucking rotten liar and thats what i called you.

All I know is that you were banned, and usually banned accounts get their posts deleted. I've seen you slag off this forum before with my own eyes. You're trying to tell me I have you confused with someone else, but are you not Jim Bob aka Axl's Disillusion?

And no matter how you want to try and justify what you said, you still referred to me with a very racist term.


If that's what you believe, you really need to stop using that word and re-evaluate why you're using it. It's not interchangeable for "liar." If someone is a liar, call them a liar. You didn't need to call me that word. It's nasty and vile.

I don't think this needs to be discussed any further. I wasn't "going after" you. I just don't like it when people are "fake" and say things they don't mean.

do a search on my accounts and find the quotes.  the accounts are still there.  : ok:   

<< Every person has to deal with some kinda 'ism, whether religion or skin or height or weight or sex or clothing or culture or country, we all have to deal with it. There's only one true 'ism - Assholism. It can be subgrouped into racism, sexism, or any other 'ism, but it's all about someone being an Asshole. Some people are Assholes all their life, some are momentary Assholes, usually it's acquired from coming into contact with another Asshole. All you can do is try your best not to catch it and spread it. >>
 
bbf

This is just a pure guess, but I think I know why there is cencorship to the topic.

This is where GNR channel info as stated. Now, why would Jarmo jepordise that? Obviously, him being the owner of the site GNR info thats getting past has it's sentamental value with it. Perhaps, he's thinking the GNR team will notice that jarmo has chosen to withdraw mercks statemeant, and see HTGTH as a more trust worthy site? Perhaps to get more info going through this way?

Also, the fact that GNR JUST released and Axl statemeant through this site, I'm guessing there interested in response from the fans. So, if ever there reading this message board, it's today and tomorrow.


Then again, reveiws are posted of the shows, articles are posted from differant sources. They let the pigeons of shit metals statemenat be posted. That's EXACTLY the same thing with merck. Working with guns, get's fired, makes a statmeant. So maybe, Jarmo, has been told from above (gnr team) to not let any posts come through to do with merck.

Well, I apologize if I was wrong, but unfortunately your accounts cannot be accessed through the search system one way or another. All I'll say is that if what I said isn't true then I am sorry and retract my statements.

But I still think calling someone the names you called me is really uncalled for, dude. Just because you think I'm "nasty and vile" it doesn't warrant such terrible slurs.

Let's put this behind us though.

Thanks for clearing this up.

I don't think you should worry about it, jarmo has his reason, when its time, its time. The stuff you find here is not speculation, its fact (for the most part), its so fans are not confused.

Wow, people weren't kidding about the rampant censorship here! I quoted one sentence from Merck's letter - entirely praising Axl, the band, and CD - and my post got wiped. I've been to a few band sites that only allow positive things to be posted, sure, but this has to be the first one that I've encountered that will delete your posts of the admins don't like the source of praise for the band. Oof!  :P

I think that if you took a poll, the overwhelming concensus would be that there was a lot more of value - regarding insight into the past and future goings-on with the band and album - in Merck's letter than there was in Axl's (which was good to read, don't get me wrong, but it lacked the detail that Merck went into). It seems completely silly to disallow something that was nothing but a positive and insightful appraisal of Gn'R from the field of discussion. I'm miffed these rules are put in place by a Swede - quirks like this are something I'd sooner attribute to someone of Rupert Murdoch's ilk.

How do you know everything Merck said was true though?

I don't. But I didn't say that now, did I?

How do we know that everything Axl said was true?

Again, we don't. He and Merck could both be full of shit for all we know. It's rock n' roll, an industry that is right up there with politics, hollywood, and pro sports in terms of shadey fibs and half-truths. But from reading both their stories, I thought that both of them came off as being very frank and honest. Axl's was a bit muddled - I thought he came off as having visibly mixed emotions over the whole thing. Merck's read more like he had sat back and taken a deep breath before writing it so as to avoid making any kneejerk statements.

IMO, if you look at the two statements together, I think you get a glimpse of the sorts of bureaucratic difficulties and personality conflicts that've postponed the album's release for so long.

today was the worst day i think this forum has ever had. it should have been one of the most highly debated and talked about news items we have had in years - a letter from the man himself!!!!

but instead all we got was a bunch of pats on the back for axl and gnr. look at the posts in the main forum - nothing but "this is the best day of my life" shit.

for people who actually want to know whats going on in the band, thats pretty boring stuff. i come here because i want to know whats up behind the scenes, what the real story is. if i wanted to read axl's statement and get on my knees for him, i'd just go to gnr.com and do it there.

any post that would have contributed to substantive and interesting debate over the letter's release and the circumstances surrounding it was summarily deleted. this post might be deleted as well, seeing as i havent had a single one not wiped all day.

its a damn shame.

have we forgotten about the four shows that were cancelled? that like 100,000 people that just had their plans shat on right there. you dont hear anyone on this forum complaining about it, though, do you? thats because no one is getting the chance.

so axl gives us a "tentative" release date with multiple strings attached, disclaims all responsibility for past and future delays,  and cancels on thousands of loyal fans because he doesnt feel like doing the shows anymore? thats bullshit. where i come from, when you schedule a committment, be it a concert or a meeting or a fucking phone call, you keep it and you show up, on time, every time.

fuck this shit. i dont think today;s news was all that great at all!!!!

I agree completely. And I'd wager there's a good number of folks here, quite possibly a majority, that also share the same opinion of the matter. It's the stuff of farce and self-parody that one of (perhaps 'the'?) most popular Gn'R sites on the net is turning a blind eye to some of the most informative news we've had in this 13 year wait.

I like how u guys feel the need to attack Jarmo.

U guys go on about how he is this or that. Maybe he has a connection to Axl, maybe not, but put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself what u would do?

Not implyin that happens but if Axl spoke to u personally and asked to keep certain things off, u think anyone here would tell him no? ::)

This isnt? SLC's Fox News "Fair and B alanced, this is a personally owned board.

If u wanna read Merck's letter, go to Vh1 or somewhere.


U people do realize that Artists can make Unofficial websites stop using Trademarks and sorts of other references right?

Merck is gone, I am happy as hell he is gone and I personally dont want to hear nothing else from him.


Be happy, we got a release date and the YES men who in my opinion were holding Axl back are now gone.

I think there are far too many cynics on this board who won't be happy regardless of what happens.

I really found this funny... :hihi: Now Merk knows about censorship? :hihi:
He was the one asking for topics to be deleted here, now he's not welcome.
Eat your censorship.
 ;D

im 100% with you on that one.
it kills you when watchin the favorite singer of all time cant deliver the album promised for so many years now. thats the only xmas present i really wanted but instead you get a blame game between axl and merck.
and you also find out that the only delay is that this band is having so much fun with our money to bother sit down and finish the bloody thing.
 ?

so we are not allowed to paste Rolling Stone/NME/MTV/etc/etc articles about the band, since they were not written by the band?
or interviews with josh freese, paul huge, zakk wyld since they are no longer in the band?

merck was the manager for a long time. in that article he's not bashing the band, but giving some background details...

Correct.   Information from third party sources (Merck, Mysteron, NME, MTV etc. would not be allowed under the new policies.

That statement is stupid and you know it.




/jarmo

...and if the band wants us to know nothing?

I can understand you wanting to exploit this new found relationship with the band, but if they truly respected you they would allow you to run the site as you saw fit

We havent always agreed on things, but i've never doubted your love of the band and desire to create a place for all GNR fans to come together and enjoy the band

Your now undoing so much of the hard work you've put in, you built this site from nothing with your integrity and professionalism drawing in millions of fans.

When we are so close to a new album, dont let that same integrity slide now

the fact that this site has the attention of the GNR camp shows the integrity right there.   

None of you seem to get it.

I run the site as I see fit.

Occasionally I'm asked to remove something.

If I don't see why it should be removed, I can always ask. But usually I can see why.


I can give you an example: The Rolling Stone article. It contained lies and people got excited. The album wasn't released in November. Every time an article claims something about the band, and it doesn't happen, a certain person in the band gets the blame for it.




/jarmo

I'm leaving this site because of the merck issue. In my opinion site is a waste of time if we are only allowed to discuss topics that are considered positive.

Best of luck.

Why does every single person that wants to leave the forum, feel the need to post about it?

Do you think your "bye bye" post will make a difference?

It's not about making a difference, It's about letting the webmaster know that his policies are repelling potential members. In Jarmo's case, he doesn't give a rats' ass, but there are some places on the net where member feedback actually counts for something, believe it or not.

And what did removing the rolling stone article achieve?  Really?

Did it annoy people that their posts were getting erased without any feedback whatsoever?   For no apparent reason?   Yes it did.

Did it prevent people from finding out about the rolling stone article?   No it didn't.

Did it enhance the reputation of HTGTH? 


If you want it to be "The Jarmo Show" then go ahead.   But if you want to try to enforce policy like you state, then the policy should surely at least be consistent? 

Where you asked to remove the Merck article?   

Why do you keep coming back?

in the axl's letter thread, after posting a big thanks to axl for the letter i proceeded to make a post simply asking if anyone thought merck would get his old job at sanctuary back, since he decided to leave sanctuary to stay with axl, and it was deleted. that was all the post said, and yet my post was deleted. i guess this message board doesn't value it members anymore, which is a shame, because i know axl is aware of how positive this message board community is as a whole and i think he would like us to be allowed to speak freely. as a matter of fact i feel sure of it, knowing axl's appreciation of free speech. and even if jarmo didn't delete that message, i humbly ask jarmo to explain to me why such an innocent question would be deleted. btw i feel jarmo is getting too much heat and criticism on this cencorship issue, when he tries to run a message board in support of guns n' roses he is in his full right to do his best to keep it positive, so this question is excactly that, a question and not necessarily a criticism.

probably because you asked question in a wong thread... and on the wrong board... btw. Merck left Sanctuary not because of Guns N' Roses, but because of himself... to answer your question

on the wrong board? yeah, lord knows the wrong place to ask a question concerning guns n' roses affairs is on a guns n' roses board.

btw, i edited my original post to make it clear that i support jarmo in keeping this board clean (most message boards are polluted with utter shit but this one has been one of the most well-run for years), i simply want an explanation from a moderator or jarmo as to why sincere question was deleted and thus denying a true fan information about his favorite band.

Merck didn't leave Sancturay to stay with Axl, but Axl might have left Sanctuary to stay with Merck which didn't happen as Merck is no longer involved. It is like asking did Doug get his job back once he was no longer GN'R manager in an Open letter to the fans thread!

but surely you realize that my question just as much had to do with axl firing merck, which was an essential part of his letter to us?

It is very consistent as far as I know.

I explained myself, and you just refuse to get it. There's nothing I can do about it.

You have Axl's letter here. If somebody outside the band, or its organization, writes a letter, you'll have to look for it somewhere else.



/jarmo

I just don't see how it is related, but whatever... I just wanted to say that this message board does value it members ? :peace:

i know it does, i may have put that a little too harshly across. regardless, i support jarmo when he says that when merck is no longer part of the GN'R organization, it is not to be taken for granted that his letter will appear on a guns n' roses site. that is jarmo's decision as an administrator.

Maybe it's a misunderstanding on my part.

We're not going to publicize comments from outside the band (Merck).   But we are going to publicize comments from outside the band (insert magazine other than RS here).   Then we're not going to publicize comments from outside the band (Rolling Stone). 

And then my posts in Axl's Letter thread about Axl's letter and how he said tentative get removed.  Yet other people post about tentative and it stays.  And there is even a thread now about how it's tentative.    The only consistency seems that it's inconsistent.



How exactly was the Rolling Stone article a "lie"?   Are you now suggesting that Merck was never interviewed by Rolling Stone at all?   Or that he never made those comments? 


Most of us here are adults.   Many of us are even educated.  Words like "tentative" and "rumoured" often get missed by fans and I DO understand why you'd want to not spread the rumours further.   But rather than clamping down on  those posts/threads and letting them just get repeatedly posted all over again by people who don't understand or see what's happening, just stick them to one thread, make an official announcement in thread if needed and be done with it.

For example - although you suggested that the Rolling Stone article was a "lie", I think what you're trying to say is that it was a rumour, perhaps even an unfounded rumour.   If someone posted the article, rather than delete posts and threads en-masse, why not just put a disclaimer in there (even in the first post) to suggest or confirm that it is nothing more than rumour "at this stage".   Simple.   The fans can still discuss it (since this IS a GNR discussion forum) and you've done your part to remove any credence from the article as best you can.

If it was a post saying "Fucking Axl Rose sucks!!"  Then sure - I can totally understand removing the post.  Fuck, I'd support that.   Removing posts requesting leaked tracks - that makes sense too. 

But it's NOT just the negative posts that get removed.  There are SO many posts that are not negative about the band, yet they get removed due to some hidden agenda.   

People are going to discuss this stuff anyway, so if people do it like adults then why don't you want discussion here?

So no, it's not consistent, it's not about "getting rid of the haters" it's about "You'll talk about the specific GNR topics that the HTGTH staff feel are fit for discussion.   And you'll be sure to praise Axl about it".

And you didn't answer my question about whether you were asked by the band to remove any hint about Merck's letter. 

In theory - to talk about GNR.   This IS a GNR discussion forum after all.   ::)

and I don't see you are trying to discuss anything, but trying to force your views and opinion as granted  ::)

Absolutely not.  You couldn't miss the point by any further.   I'm suggesting that we SHOULD be allowed to express our own opinion (within reason - admittedly that's a sticky point) and not that we should only be allowed to have one opinion or view.

I'm not discussing GNR in this thread, because this is not a GNR thread.   

Hidden agenda?

We don't want speculation based on lies.




/jarmo

Not sure how I can make this any easier.


WHAT LIES?

Are you saying that the Rolling Stone interview never happened?  Is that why we're not allowed to discuss it?  Rolling Stone made the whole thing up?  Or are you saying that they just made up Merck's comments?   How come the band never made any public comment about this, since it's potentially pretty serious?

And even if we accept for a second that the Rolling Stone interview printed is all lies, like you keep suggesting, why are we being policed so heavily on other non-RS Stuff?   Why is it that some days we CAN use the word tentative (today looks like a good day) and some days we cannot?

Did Axl ask you to prevent the use of the word Tentative? 

And yes the agenda is hidden because it's so cloudy.   Posts are pulled one day but valid the next.   Some magazine articles are ok and some are not.  It's a bit of a lottery right now.

But hey - you want to run things in that random fashion and you'll do so.   No matter what the members say.   So be it.

But I would like to know why you're suggesting that the Rolling Stone article is all lies.   

There were things in those articles that weren't true.




/jarmo

Ok, so the entire article wasn't a lie and the interview DID happen.

What wasn't true?   What was SO wrong that the HTGTH fan base had to be totally shielded from the article rather than allowed to discuss it? 

Do you have the album in your hands?

Did that Tommy throw his bass at Axl like that former opening act claims?


Why do I have to keep repeating myself?



/jarmo

Howard, why do you keep complaining? Jesus crist, this is an exciting time for GNR fans and all people can think about is the way Jarmo runs things around here. Give it a rest already.

You're not repeating yourself.? Rather than make ONE post and clear it all up, you make 15 obscure posts and drag it all out.? ?

Obviously you didn't read the article.? ?You should have done that before deciding that it wasn't worthy of discussion.



EDIT: And just to be really clear.? The article never promised the Nov 21 release date.? ?Merck suggested 13 Tuesdays but I don't think you're psychic or you knew back then that Merck was not going to be able to pull it off and was going to get the axe.? ? So the fact that we don't have the CD in our hands does not prove that the article is a lie.

Axl said at the VMAs we would have CD by the end of the year, but we dont.
So I guess axl is a liar too right?

It's a great time to be a fan. ?I agree 100%.

I just want to know why we're so strictly policed on what we are and are not allowed to talk about. ?This isn't just a case of removing the "fuck Axl" threads. ?

There's going to be a LOT of cool stuff happening in the next few months and it'd be great to be able to talk about it all with other fans. ?

and he said something else in the letter (he didn't wrote, right? ?::)) which you fail to see/read...

Censorship blows.

I don't expect you to understand because simply you're not me.

So instead of trying to explain, when it obviously makes no fucking difference what I say, I won't bother.


I'll just keep doing what I've been doing for all these years and if you don't like it, too bad for you.



/jarmo

Then you'll be deleting your account right?  :yes:

You know, your forum wouldn't be what it is, if it wasn't for the MEMBERS. So maybe you should think about treating your forum members with a little more respect.

Just an idea though

Why would I do that?

Respect goes both ways.

You're not paying to be on a forum without ads.

Respect the way we run the forum and we'll respect you.

Don't and we won't.

We've explained everything TOO many times.

Lots seem to understand how it works. Some don't want to.

There are too many lies printed and spread. Some might choose to believe and spread the lies.

We don't.

Accept it. It's that simple.

Amusing.

There's a small clique of people who don't respect this place and think they can get away with shit. Maybe because they can elsewhere.

They think we should respect them.


We do what we do and we'll keep doing it. Whether some people like it or not.

I'm not interested in popularity contests and trying to please everybody.

That's why we'll never vote on any moderators. We won't let the majority decide on any policies on this board.


This place is here for the fans who respect the board, its rules and, last but not least, the band.




/jarmo

Just not the full truth, eh?

In short, this board is for people who are nothing but dittoheads and personal vacuums for Axl Rose and the webmaster then, eh?  That's not for me... I'll be de-registering and taking my thoughts elsewhere after this post. I can't stick with a message board that operates along the lines of FOX News.

Ah shit man, sorry to see you go!

I just got your pm and when I went to reply it said "could not find". No email either.......

Take it easy bro.

 :peace:

I totally understand jarmo and the mods' decision to remove the Merck article because they knew it contained unfounded rumors of a release date.

However, I also understand where some of the fans are coming from complaining about alleged "censorship." I think in the future instead of just deleting topics and not giving any type of explanation, it might end a lot of debate (before it even starts) if some kind of explanation - such as the one in this thread - were posted. It would have cut back on all the people crying "Censorship!"

Ultimately it's their site/forum and they can do whatever they want. If we don't want to post here we don't have to. No one's pointing a gun at our heads forcing us to post.

But I'm just saying it may cut back on the amount of backlash if, next time something like this happens (IF it happens again), some kind of explanation such as this is given from the start - instead of just deleting topics and saying "The article cannot be discussed here" with no apparent reason.

Just my $.02.  : ok:

But I knew as soon as the Merck article started getting deleted there was a valid reason, and now as everyone can see: there was.

We've had hundreds of unfounded release dates.   Even Axl's release date is tentative.   I think most of us are adult enough to decide for ourselves what we should or should not believe.

Anyway, that's my last word on it.

Jarmo - I DO appreciate having the site here, I really do.   The next few months are going to be awesome and I just hope that we're given licence to discuss all the cool stuff that happens.   Not forced to play in one or two select threads and have a strict policy of theme enforcement.   

What's so hard to understand? Censoring the Merck letter should tell you alot about who it is that decides certain things around here. Axl Rose is not consistent, so why ask for it?

I was planning on writing a big and well argumented reply, but I feel that everything I wanted to say has already been said in this thread.

just answer me this, is htgth still the unbiased and objective forum it once was?

It has never been totally unbiased.

You have to remember this is a fan forum and we are always gonna welcome fans of the current band more than people who might like the old band, but refuse to see that times have changed.

Many so called objective forums come across as breeding grounds for these so called objective fans who do nothing else than complain about the band. There's no way I'm gonna allow that to happen here.

This place isn't gonna turn into a place where we have pages and pages of "objective" discussions about how much everything sucks, how all we get are lies from the band and how the band sucks because certain people aren't in it anymore.

This place also won't turn into a place where rumors are welcomed as facts just because some people think the band is constantly making shit up.



/jarmo

I agree with that post about Rolling Stone and some of the others, I just dont want this to get so out of hand that if someone goes to a show and doesnt like something, it gets deleted.

I dont want this to turn into a Worship Forum where if u have something great to say its allowed but any criticism or negative comment will be deleted.

When CD comes out, I want the freedom to discuss it fully. If someone doesnt like a song, i want to know, I want to hear their reasoning and logic.

if someone doesnt like a concert, i want to know why.

So bullshit articles, rumors and lies are fine to be deleted. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

But when it comes to people's opinions on concerts, the CD when it comes out, the bandmembers as long as it isnt the same old vs New argument. I would appreciate it, if all that stuff is allowed.

good post, i fully agree.

I consider myself an original GNR fan a VR fan and a New GNR fan.

the only problem I have ever had with the New Band fans is when they let ignorance take over their posts.

I want to love the new band so much but when posters on here slag off the original band to try and make the new band seem great, To me that shit should be deleted.

Anyone who says Bumblefoot or Robin are better than Slash before they've even released an album of their own material to me is the type of Fan I despise.

so to me these types of posters are? just as guilty as the posters who do nothing but be negative.? cause when stuff like that is posted, I feel this need to defend the old band which in turn makes me seem like a new gnr hater which Im not.

Respect is earned though not annointed just cause u play with Axl.? They still have to prove it on the CD. So the point of this post has to do with "Negative" old fans who dont change with the times.

I change with the times but that doesnt mean I forget the past.

But Bumblefoot has been playing guitar for YEARS so we can judge it on that. I am not the type that comes on and says "oh hes better than him!" and shit like that, but it's fair to like another guitar player, becuase his work outside of Guns N' Roses. I think Robin is so fucking kickass just hearing him doing the old stuff live, and his work on the new tunes, most notably Better and his solo in The Blues.

That being said, all three rock, and it's tough to compare seeing as for the most part they are all different kinds of guitarists.

Name one piece of music he either have ever done that is considered some of the greatest riffs or solos of all time?


Sure on CD maybe they will have some but until CD comes out, its extremely premature to make that statement cause their is no evidence u can present to make that case.



I can play November Rain on guitar, does that make me better than the guy who actually came up with it?

I dont think so.

So this is my point.

The "Haters" or the people who cant change with the times get all the blame but overzealous new fans provoke the old fans and the fans like myself who love both bands.

I think we need a BBF vs Slash thread. :)

I think not.



/jarmo

Yeah but in my opinion, some of his solo material is some of the greatest stuff I've ever heard.

My point is that just because Slash has more credit than him, doesnt make him "better", it's all about opinion man.

If the mods don't want any mention of Merck, that's fine... But please, can someone (Jarmo or whoever) make a statement in the "Important Topics" section stating what topics will qualify for deletion...  I haven't been keeping up on all the stuff going on here, and I posted just a small mention of the Merck statement and it was deleted.. I don't care that it was deleted, but I wouldn't have even bothered in the first place if I had seen something stating that Merck's comments were not to be mentioned... 

Seriously? We would be allowed to discuss our opinions on the merits of the two guitar players in the appropriate forum? 

exactly.  D your opinion is bullshit because all it is hating on other people's opinions.

I like robin better than slash.   I dont feel I need a reason other than the fact that I just prefer him and  i hope you despise me.  :beer:

 :beer: exactly my thought JB

keep up the good work moderators and jarmo  : ok:

Those last two posts totally blow my mind.?

WTTJ,SCOM,PC,nightrain,RQ,NR,Coma,Civil War,Locomotive,Estranged,Dont Cry solo, KOHD solo


vs

what?

U can like Robin better than Slash that is fine. I dont think u can say he is better until he proves it with what he does on CD.

 when people say Bumblefoot is better than Slash when he's been in the band for 5 minutes, that is crazy and totally disrespectful to not only the old members but people who are fans of the original band as well.

U can have any opinion u want but that doesnt stop it from being ridiculous.

When CD comes out, u can make an argument, until then, a cover musician can never play a song better than the guy who actually wrote the fuckin thing.

It's disrespectful to the original GNR and to fans of the original GNR to like Bumblefoot?

Are you out of your mind?

I simply like his guitar playing better than Slash's. It's really as simple as that. I'm a huge fan of the original line-up, every single song is a masterpiece, but I'm not offended when someone says they like the new line-up. I fucking love the new line-up! Can't we love both? Whats the big deal? It's the same name, but its a different band, and I like both bands.

edit: And I just saw your edit.... no, we never said that they play the original stuff better. Though, you are wrong again, it is possible for cover musicians to play other's music better. Bob Dylan admitted that GNR covered KOHD better than the original. But we are just talking about what guitar player we like better. I like Ron more than I like Slash, and Jim Bob likes Robin more than he likes Slash, but I don't see how you find that disrespectul to the old line-up. That kind of logic is flawed. I guess if someone likes Scott Weiland's singing in Stone Temple Pilots, they are disrespecting Axl?  :nervous:

Dont twist what I am saying

U can like who ever u want more than Slash

But when u say someone is "Better" especially when they havent even released an album of original material yet, that is disrespecting the old members.

I like Richie Sambora better than Eric Clapton, I would never be dumb enough to say Sambora is better than Clapton though.

There is a difference.

I like Slash better than Hendrix, of course I wouldnt say Slash is better than Hendrix..... get what Im sayin?

I've heard people say that "Bumblefoot is better than Slash"

Slash the guy responsible for some of the most memorable and test of time standing solo's and riffs in music history.

I love the new band and the new guys to,but there is no need for these people to desecrate the old members historic contributions to prop up the new guys.

It quite frankly pisses me off like u wouldn't believe when someone says that.

U can like whoever u want better, but to say someone IS Better, that goes beyond opinion and straight into the realm of ignorance cause it is something that can be backed up with evidence.

U send me audio of Bumble and Finck's 10 greatest riffs, and 10 greatest solo's they've written.

Ill send u audio of Slash's.


Any drama as to who? the winner would be at this point? :no:

When people say "Robin is better than Slash" it means that they LIKE Robin better than Slash. When it comes to this stuff, none of it is fact, so it doesn't matter...when somebody makes that statement, it's just there personal taste.

I dont take it that way. If someone is Better, they are better meaning superior in talent,skill etc etc.


Can Robin be better than Slash? Sure, its possible once CD comes out and we see what he can do.

Im only stating that people should at least wait to the damn thing comes out before making such claims.

Robin has better stage presence than Slash.  He is a better performer on stage than Slash.    Neither of those things have to do with writing songs.   

how the fuck is that disrespectful to the ex-members?  some of you people are funny..

Cause when someone says that he is BETTER that means BETTER and since we are talkin about guitar players, that would mean he is a better guitar player which is impossible seeing as how CD hasnt even came out yet and Slash is the owner of some of the greatest and most memorable Rock Riffs and solos in music history.

Better performer? Have u heard his solo before SCOM?

More stage presence? Please.

are u like 13 years old?

been right there 4 times.. how many times have you seeen them?

oh yea thats right.. you aren't qualified to even have an opinion on this because you haven't even seen the fucking band!!   

This discussion has veered very off-topic.

How many times have u seen Slash with GNR........?? So I guess your opinion doesnt Count! 


I have seen almost every boot and his solos before SCOM are garbage.

John Frusciante called, he wants his look back.

This is a discussion about guitar players and how people can say one is better than the other. How do personal attacks fit in with that?

Alright, well I'm off to sleep. Hope you guys can keep it cool, I dont want to wake up to a bunch of deleted posts.

because its all he has.  it hurts his feel goods when someone likes someone else better than his precious slash.  :crying:   i'm done with him.   


all i can say D is learn to accept that not all opinions will be the same as yours.  its no reason to get your panties in a bunch.    i dont care if you like slash more.. maybe you outta go find yourself a VR board or something since you seem to like insulting the members of GNR.

Jim Bob Jimmy Joe hee haw stated that Finck had more stage presence than Slash.


back in the day when Axl took an oxygen break, u didnt even know he was gone.

Now, when he takes his oxygen break u notice.


Slash has not only some of the greatest riffs and solos but one of the coolest looks and  most original looks whereas Finck cant decide between lookin like a goth or a hippy. Its a great thing Finck dont have tits or he probably would dress like a Pussycat doll.


As I have stated. If u like Robin or whoever better than Slash that is great, fine all power to you.

But to say they are better musicians or guitar players when they have yet to release an album is premature and ignorant.

So now you're insulting current members of GNR? Last time I checked, that didn't fly on this board.

And D, just so you know... I like you. I think you're a very intelligent guy. But I think the way you see this subject is just very wrong, that's all.

notice i dont have to insult slash to make my point.   you keep making digs at Finck, who is in GNR now, Slash is not.   

try the VR Board yo.   later.  :peace:

How did i insult him?

Did he not dress like a goth? and now he looks like a hippie?  just sayin what next?


Your pal brought up stage presence which deals with appearance etc etc etc etc etc.

If someone constantly changes their style and appearance that has to do directly with stage presence and someone who seems to look however is IN, to me isnt all that original.

I find that pretty insulting.


Anyway, goodnight.

I would advise that you get back to the topic of this thread, which if I remember correctly, was how much everyone hated us :)

Any further "discussions" on Robin vs. Slash between you two, please use the PM system.

Smite their asses and they'll keep on hating us...  :hihi:

Come on now that Pussycat Dolls line was funny................. : ok: : ok:


how the fuck did we get that far off topic?


I love the new band, I love everything about the new band, I was only asking for people to at least wait till CD comes out before they say these guys are better than Slash.

Once CD comes out u will have evidence to support the claim, until then I dont think u do..........


My first post I promise was actually on topic.

I stated if posts about old members were deleted, then posts saying stuff like this guy is better than an old member should also be deleted.
not in those words exactly, but it was lingering somewhere between the lines.

I think this belongs here, are we allowed to mention GN'Rs ex-manager at all?

Yes, you're better.

And I'll delete anyone who says otherwise.

.

You're not a Nine Inch Nails fan are you?

Actually, Yes I am : ok: : ok:

I would suggest ending the Slash-vs.-Robin debate, guys. Unless you want the mods to smite you with negative karma. John Lennon would not be pleased.  :no:

First of all, the debate wasn't about Robin Vs. Slash, though D wanted it to be.
Second of all, it wouldn't be the first time I've gotten negative karma for no real reason.  ;)

My original post that got all of that started was basically:

If Posts about Slash being GOD are deleted, then equally absurd posts such as people saying so and so are better than Slash should also be deleted cause it pisses off fans of the original and starts a shitstorm.

I stated that right now none of the new GNR guitar players have done anything to prove that point due to CD not being released yet. I stated till it is released, u have no evidence to support your position.


They then make it about something I wasnt even talkin about. They then start chattering on how they like Robin better which is fine, I dont care who u LIKE better but when it comes to WHO IS Better, until CD comes out, i think Slash still wins by default.



Efish and jimmy jack joe bob then twist my words around like I am saying U cant like someone better than Slash when in fact it wasnt no where near what I was saying and it kind of went from there back and forth until I ended it with the knock out line:  "Robin was a goth, now a hippie" thank God he doesnt have tits or he'd be a pussycat doll."

Now That is Funny! I dont care who u are! : ok:

Who cares?

No one's going to remember this discussion a week from now, and you're not going to change anyone's mind.

I agree with you - comparing Robin to Slash is pretty silly since Slash is one of the most iconic guitarists of the last century and also one of the most influential, whereas most people haven't even heard of Robin. BUT...they personally like Robin more, and they're entitled to: it's a free country. They can like Bumblefoot, Robin Finck, Richard Fortus or Richard Simmons more than Slash -- it doesn't matter. They're not debating whether Slash was more influential or not (he undoubtedly was) -- they're just saying they personally enjoy watching the other guys more than Slash.

If they're twisting your words as you claim, just stop responding and it will die. They can't quote you if you don't write anything.  ;)

I'm not trying to be a prick, I just would hate to see people lose their accounts for this. You've already been warned twice on the last page and you've got -10 karma already. You're pushing your luck, dude.  ;D

i find it funny that some of the people (like dave) who got privilages from this site such as the new york pre-sale this spring, thanks to jarmo keeping the board clean and thus making the band trust and reward this site, now bash jarmo and the same site for not allowing enough shit about the band to be posted. can anybody say hypocracy?

what was mercks letter implying?

and was it Merck AKA Cheap jon or merch, gnrs management?

merck  ::) hes the reason CD has been held up this whole time

The manager option.

Even tought i still think that Jarmo is nothin' but a Double Talkin Jive, the fact that Merck's open letter has been banned to discuss in this forum is fucking delicious.

This is the only site i have seen that is as controlling over what people are discussing ..it's rather odd considering it is a 'fan forum'.

Now i understand the site has backing from GNR's people. SO if someone is throwing accusations around - that have certain legal issues around them or a poster is? constantly abusive. Then fair enough, they should be warned and then banned if they continue.? But to delete posts or censor discussions. Or to pissed that people bring up certain subjects that crop up once in a while.....? If they crop up, then people want to talk about them. New people are joining and may want to talk - to learn something about this band - they should be allowed to do so without people jumping down their throats.?

I have been coming here for years and it's these passionate views and discussions - when there was no news, that helped build this sites reputation.? ?I have never had any problems with Jarmo or any of the mods. Jarmo you have created this cool site, it must have been great for you to see this site grow so much - respect to you.? But if no one came here and no one discussed anything, it would soon go away. As other sites before it.

And to tell people they can go elsewhere is just rude.? considering they keep the board alive.? People love GNR old or new, most of us love/enjoy both.? Also the side projects and bands that have worked with outside of GNR.? If someone brings up an old subject, or frustrations - we all know where they are coming from at least.? Then maybe those who don't want to discuss it again, should simply stay out of the discussion? And let the post either fade away or be discussed as people wish.? ?

Now ok it maybe only a GNR discussion board, slightly trivial to get bothered about... but freedom of speech is such an important thing.? ?I have noticed a few threads just dissapear. There was one in the VR section last night with the photoshopped pic of Axl and Slash together.? Causing no harm, was a light hearted thread. Today it's gone? And reading this section here for the 1st time, it seems to be a regular thing.? And it's concerning? for a site we all enjoy.? If you tell enough people to piss off, then there will be no site.? Anyway respect to you all,? Happy New Year.

"Either get on board, or fuck off."

You tell him AdZ  :beer:

I'm disappointed that the guy who wrote "one in a million", now needs someone to censor his own ex manager in front of a bunch of internet geeks.

kinda makes him look like a wimp when he has jarmo(no disrespect) looking out for him.

Uh...pass the dictionary please.

Nah, but I'll lob the rule book at your face,


Yawn.