Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Well done Mr Blair! - Finally - FINALLY - says what he needed to say so many years ago

Damn shame he's leaving office, this might have been the start of something - its just this kind of common sense we need - free from the fear of election she can actually tell it like it is

People entering the UK must be prepared to be tolerant or not become part of society, Tony Blair has said.
In a speech at Downing Street, the prime minister said that tolerance was "what makes Britain" and warned "we must be ready to defend this attitude".

The threat came not from "generalised extremism" but "a new and virulent form of ideology associated with a minority of our Muslim community".

The Muslim Association of Britain said Mr Blair's speech was "alarming".

Wars 'not helping'

A spokesman said the prime minister should be "investing in our society" to help the deprived, rather than investing "millions and billions in illegal occupations" which had "not helped to promote multiculturalism in this country".

"Rather than standing up and lecturing us, it's time he puts his money where his mouth is," the spokesman said.

Mr Blair also used the speech to announce a crackdown on funding for religious and racial groups, saying in the future they would have to prove they aimed to promote community integration.

Conservative community cohesion spokesman Dominic Grieve said the speech was a "remarkable turnaround".

"Many of the problems in relation to the issues he addresses are at least in part the consequence of a philosophy of divisive multiculturalism and political correctness that has been actively promoted by the Labour Party over many years at both national and local government levels."

Funding crackdown

Liberal Democrat communities spokesman Andrew Stunell said: "We must ensure that the voices of moderation have their say, but support for organisations must not be distorted by government-driven targets or Tony Blair's personal agenda."
He said: "The right to be in a multicultural society was always implicitly balanced by a duty to integrate, to be part of Britain, to be British and Asian, British and black, British and white."

Mr Blair "multicultural Britain" should be dispensed with, adding: "On the contrary, we should continue celebrating it,"

But he said the suicide bombings in London on 7 July last year had thrown the whole concept of a multiculturalism "into sharp relief", the prime minister said.

"The reason we are having this debate is not generalised extremism. It is a new and virulent form of ideology associated with a minority of our Muslim community.

"It is not a problem with Britons of Hindu, Afro-Caribbean, Chinese or Polish origin. Nor is it a problem with the majoirty of the Muslim community."

'Essential values'

But he said there was a "problem with a minority of that community, particularly originating from certain countries".

The failure of that part of the community to integrate did not mean multiculturalism was dead, said Mr Blair, but it would be useful to define "common values" all citizens were "expected to conform to".

"When it comes to our essential values - belief in democracy, the rule of law, tolerance, equal treatment for all, respect for this country and its shared heritage - then that is where we come together, it is what we hold in common."

Mr Blair also said: "If you come here lawfully, we welcome you. If you are permitted to stay here permanently, you become an equal member of our community and become one of us.

"The right to be different, the duty to integrate: that is what being British means.

"And neither racists nor extremists should be allowed to destroy it."

Race equality

Mr Blair said the Equal Opportunities Commission would be looking at concerns about women's status inside Muslim communities.

He also praised Tory leader David Cameron, saying it was "not conceivable in my view" that he would seek to exploit immigration to win votes.

Labour MP Keith Vaz MP has criticised the newly formed Commission for Equality and Human Rights for taking just one of its nine commissioners from a background in working for race equality.

Only chairman Trevor Phillips had this experience, he added.

It was a very good speech addressing a sensitive issue. Blair did a good job of it. It's a shame that he chose to get involved with Bush on Iraq, as it's going to be a glaring stain on his otherwise respectable political career, IMO.

im really not a fan of this multi cultural england vision.

The Muslim Association of Britain said Mr Blair's speech was "alarming".

Fuck them

Absolutely. One way tolerance died on 7/7/05.

Your comments are racist the Muslim community of Britain or the World are not to blame for that.

Islam isn't a race, dopey.

i actually feel sorry for tony blair, i mean he came into power everybody loved him, now he can't do nothing right, same thing happend with thatcher, and the same thing will happen with cameron, who'd be a leader? they only remember u after ur gone!

Baaaaah!!!   :hihi:

as Mr Blair says:



There are about 4 billion people in the world bloody sick of Muslim whining and paranoia.

The problem comes from within the Muslim community - not the Hindu community, not the Sikh community - and its about time free speach in this country meant just that - the freedom to address a problem and for the muslim community to start taking responsibility for its members.

Since your an idiot, here's the meaning of the word racist, for you.

http://uk.ask.com/reference/dictionary/wordnetuk/142797/racist

I wish somebody in the U.S. would fucking say something like this...

Is it to much to ask people to conform to where they move a little bit? I think not. In California some people would rather wave the Mexican flag than the American flag.. billboards are in Spanish.. ect. I just think, if your gonna move here you have to accept some of the culture.. Immigrants used to be proud to become American.. now they act all offended at the suggestion.

Whatever  ::)

You're an apostrophist.

If that were true, then the US wouldn't have had such a difficult time recruiting allies to join in on the Iraq war.  ::)

As far as I'm concerned, Christianity is just as cancerous a force as Islam in this world, and as I live in North America, I see the Jesus-heads as being a much greater threat to our rights and freedoms than a bunch of riled up Muslims living in a cave half a world away.

how about "no." The only reason why they said it was alarming is because there were deep suggestions of "Muslims" not "terrorists" to blame for this. this is a problem with terrorism not islam. I am quite confused how "islamic terrorism" can exist

Until a muslim commits an act of terror in the name of Islam, right? Then it's 'racist' to ask the 'brotherhood' to show some collective responsibility. Thanks for confirming my point.

The Spanish inquisition, the holocaust, the holy wars, the witch burnings and hangings. All started by Islam right?

Nope, your point?

What religion was primarily responsible, and should it not be criticized?

Christianity and absolutely yes. But what's the relevance to this thread?

You?re acting like Islam, is cause of the world's great Evil?

Which one of my posts suggests that?

er?

So you can only be sick of something if your prepared to join the US in economically motivated conflicts?

What happens when you have a bad day at work? You kill a guy in a suit?

You are incredibly ignorant if you believe Christians were primarily responsible for the Holocaust.  Besides, your point is not well taken, you can't justify bad behavior by pointing to bad behavior.

Oh my gawd man!

That is all you guys ever do!

hahahahahahahaha

Wow you are a hypocrite!

For the record, I don't believe Christians were responsible for the holocaust, I just kind of took in the general lack of relevant point and didn't read the individual items on the list.

Was that directed at me (since you quoted me)?

Yeah but everything really is Bill Clinton's fault   ;)

Show me one place where I have done that.  Please.  Your silence will prove my point.

No.

You guys have done that during any talk of the Iraq war........take your pick!

Nice vague response.  Quit linking me in with "you guys."? I have done no such thing, and I challenge you to find an example to support your accusation.

o dear you are full of straw. If i a muslim commits murder in the name of christianity, does that make christians to be blamed? or even if i swear in the name of islam, would it still make them responsible? No it doesnt.

What a fantastic point, no I'm really, really serious......That aside, I'm not talking about blame, I'm talking about responsibility.

this is the problem, Why should Muslims take responsibility for terrorists? Terrorists and Muslims are two completely different things. Muslims hold covenants unlike terrorists

I don't mean responsibility as in culpability, I mean in the sense of taking an active role to solve a problem. Taking the UK as the example, since that it the topic of this thread, do you seriously want to dispute that 7/7 and the other attempted bombings etc are not at least partially created by radical muslim clerics influencing impressionable young people who believe they are acting according to Allah's will? That's either Islam or it isn't - and if it isn't then the mainstream Islam community need so share some (not all) responsibility for discrediting and removing its influence.

My impression (I could be wrong) and what I believe Blair's point is - that if you choose to live in the UK of your own free will instead of in your country of birth/ancestry then you need to respect it's traditions and laws, as well as enjoying its liberty and opportunity, but the muslim community/leadership seems far more active in whining and moaning every time someone breathes wrong in their direction. People are sick on "right on" tolerance and colonial guilt that everything's always their fault, and finally Blair had the balls to voice it.

Incidentally, I'm very much an atheist so please refrain from introducing your Christ of straw into this.

there's no evidence as far as i know to suggest it was done by radical terrorists claiming to be muslims. They've arrested suspects but that means bugger all. to be honest there are a lot of things that make muslims feel supressed these days and cautious and uncomfortable.

 ??? ???

"Our religion is Islam, obedience to the one true God and following the footsteps of the final prophet messenger."
- Mohammad Sidique Khan

"We are 100 per cent committed to the cause of Islam. We love death the way you love life."
-Shehzad Tanweer

There's videotape evidence that the bombers were not only muslim but they did it because of Islam.

That doesn't mean that they did it because of Islam, I can go out and shoot 3 people dead tonight then say I heard voices in my head, that doesn't mean that I did.

That's a really, really poor attempt at an analogy, try again.....

I think he's trying to say that the "justification" for a crime is an excuse to commit the crime rather than the reason for committing the crime. 

Like when someone commits mass murder "inspired by" a movie or a band. Millions of other people may have seen the same movie and killed no-one, so should the murder be blamed on the movie or the murderer? Ergo,  is Islam to blame for muslim terrorists or is organized terrorism to blame? I'm sure there have been terrorists of all creeds, do we blame their religion or the terrorists themselves? 

I don't think that the poster "Sakib" has a valid point in questioning whether the terrorists were "real" muslims. They could have been the most devout muslims in the world, it didn't affect the fact that they most definately were terrorists. And that's how I choose to view them, by their actions not their faith.

I know he's trying to say that, and I think it's a bad analogy. An excuse (such as voices in your head) is shifting the blame, the 7/7 bombers weren't shifting the blame to Islam they were embracing it as part of their religious belief. I already said that I don't think Islam is to blame for 7/7 or terrorism in general, but if you are forming communities within nations based on a shared religion, and members of your community commit atrocities in the name of that religion, the perhaps you need to direct some of your questioning inwards rather than shifting the blame outwards.........if you want to be integrated into that society. I realize that this is probably hopeless, religions (all of them) are great at pointing out how someone isn't a "true" believer and thus absolving themselves of all responsibility.

25 if they were devout they would realise terrorism is completely wrong. its like being a hindu and muslim at once. very impossible

o dear you are lacking in true scotsmen.

I will take your non-response as a concession.

You did plenty under your other name: GNRnightrain.

sadly there are enough passages in the Qu'ran (and the Bible too) to enable you to be devout and a terrorist.

Thats the consequence of texts written in a different age

At times we must look past the actually words and see the meaning behind them - it might say to spread faith by the sword, but isnt the real message to be passionate and resourceful in your preaching?

I dont think God wanted anyone to die....and where it says other wise, perhaps its best to write that off as a typo, God's message may be perfect but i doubt the scribe was

where? Where does it say in both books to kill innocents? The error lies not with the works but in the translation. Grammar is a trick which will never be translated by man. trust me i know the trick partly. If i say "Your mum" to someone in solihull where i live, they'll know its offensive for "your mums a slag." In urdu you try and say the same thing and it wont have the same ring whatsoever.

You are back at that one, eh?  You are a funny guy SLC.  Nice cop-out.