Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I have been a huge GNR fan since Appetite came out when I was in High School.  However, I have been witness to some bizarre behavior and strange decisions over the years.

In my opinion GNR could have been in legendary status, up there with Led Zeppelin and the Stones.  Instead their legacy is somewhere below Aerosmith in the eyes of most rock historians.  Personally they are my favorite, but there have been many, many strange decisions that have hurt GNR over the years.  Here are a few:

-Releasing "Civil War" on a charity album a year before the Illusions came out. 

I swear to God, this song was out on the album "Nobody's Child", which was a benefit album for Lithuanian orphans or something.  It was nice and all, but the song never got what it deserved.  It was played on some radio stations, but it should have been at least a single (it was never released as one) and had it been a debut on the album, I think it would have been huge.  This song never really got its just praise from the general public and it was due to the bizarre decision to throw it on a compilation album where most artists put B side quality songs.

-Releasing 2 Albums at the same time

I love the Use Your Illusions, but this was simply too much music for the public to absorb at once.  Also, there were a lot of songs that could be described as "filler".  Was "My World" really necessary?  Did we really need two versions of "Don't Cry" on the album?  If they had released one 12 song album it would probably go down in history with Appetitte.  Instead all of the perceived "filler" watered down the album in the eyes of historians.

Also, the public can't handle that many good songs at one time.  There was simply too much music and good songs didn't get their due.  It would have been a better move to release one, wait a year or two, and release the leftovers as a follow up.

-Choosing Garden of Eden and the Garden as singles

I never understood this.  Of all of the great songs on these albums, why these?  I think these songs lost some momentum for GNR, as Dead Horse and Estranged followed, but GNR kind of lost people with the Garden and Garden of Eden.  What about "Pretty Tied Up"?  That would have been and extremely radio friendly song.  Civil War could have been a huge single and video in my opinion.

-Axl and his weird Dolphin kick

The Estranged video was a little bizarre.  It went from "bizarre" to "fucking gay" when Axl was mugging for the camera with a Dolphin at the end, wearing his "Axl" high tops, with the script "There's a lot goin' on" across the bottom.  Was he marketing himself to small children or something?  This is something I would expect to see if Axl were doing a spot on Sesame Street or something.


-Too many covers

GNR had so much great original material.  Why cheapen yourselves with so many covers?  Knockin' on Heavens Door and Live and Let Die were one thing, but throwing in the Spaghetti Incident and Sympathy for the Devil was just too much.  What are you  Rod Stewart or something?  Why not put out a new song?

-The Spaghetti Incident

I'll cite it again.  I love the album.  I enjoyed it.  It was simply too much however, and for a band with the expectations of GNR it was an extreme let down to the general public.  All in all a pretty strange decision.

-Axl's British accent on "Ain't it Fun"

WTF?  He sounded GREAT live when he sang this.  Why does he have to ruin it with the gay-ass, unrealistic sounding British accent.  Again, bizarre decision.

-Giving the song "Crash Diet" to some shitty band called Asphalt Ballet

What a goddam waste.  This was a kick ass song that reminded me of Metallica's "Fade to Black" and the only GNR version of it is a terrible quality demo.  They then give it to this horrible band called "Asphalt Ballet" that butchers it.  Even Axl's backup vocals are barely audible on the song.  I'll say it again, what a fucking waste.

-The "Oh My God" release on the End of Days Album

What a fucking dissapointment.  This is one of the few times where I would say that Axl didn't wait long enough to release something.  Rock stations really wanted this song to be good.  Everyone was all over it, and then as soon as it got radio play it bombed.  I had to call WYSP in Philadelphia to get a played, and I remember the DJ saying that "it really sucks."  He was right.  Axl lost a lot of credibility by releasing this, and it fueled the "he sucks without Slash" fire.

-The 2002 MTV Music Awards appearance

I was pumped as all hell when Axl came out.  This could have been awesome.  The fucking medley is what ruined it.  He should have sang 1 new song.  The Blues would have been awesome.  Just Madagascar would have been awesome.  Instead he overextended himself and his vocals, and he was immediately picked on the next day by critics and the public.  I remember I saw a woman at work and she said "he sounded terrible," which was the general consensus of most non-GnR groupies.  Even I had to begrudingly admit that he sounded like shit, even though I had told everyone how awesome he was live when I saw him in Vegas at the HOB and the Joint.

-The Cancelled Tour in Philly

I was there.  The stadium was sold out.  There were shitloads of young people there who wanted to adopt GNR.  Then Axl just didn't show.  No explanation, no nothing.  On the heels of a performance that was hailed by critics at Madison Garden, and GNR fucked it up.  GNR was thought of as a joke yet again.

-No album to support the tour (2002 and 2006)

In the history of time, have you ever heard of a band that toured, played some of their new songs, and didn't have an album?  Seriously, I haven't heard anything like it.

-Leaking Music

Hey, I love that they leaked IRS, Better, TWAT and Catcher in the Rye.  The problem is that by leaking it, they lost a ton of excitement for these songs.  If IRS was announced as a single tomorrow, just the hardcore GNR fans alone would have given it a lot of momentum.  Instead it has been out there for 10 months and the momentum for a great song has died.

Hell, even if it was released as a single without the album, or on a movie soundtrack or SOMETHING, it would have created some buzz.  Another wasted opportunity

No album in 2006-

This is ridiculous.  After band members flat out saying it would be out this year, yet again, it isn't coming out.  How many chances can you miss before it gets ridiculous?  Half of the songs probably aren't even relavant.  China might actually be a Democracy by the time it is out and the joke will be lost.  There has been a children's movie called "Madagascar" that now ruins the title of the song written years before but not released.


That's my list of bizarre GNR decisions over the years.  They make great music, so they have succeeded in spite of these things, but damn, it is almost like they are trying to do things wrong and alienate fans.

Good list. I pretty much agree with the whole thing.

I forgot to add the dreadlock look.  His hair looked like it was weaved out of some foreign material.  What's wrong witht he old school bandana and long hair?  I think he has gone back to it, but the dreads with the little things in the end looked G-A-Y.

Dead Horse.

Good list, good read. Maybe I'm special at reading at this time of day, but did you say no new song at the VMA's? Now I'm no memory man, but I'm pretty sure that they played Madagascar, dude........

What the hell, I'm not pretty sure, I'm certain.

You can take that to the bank and, err, smoke it.

Are you fucking kidding me? Sorry, but I had to stop reading when you mentioned why it was a bad idea to release 2 Illusion albums. It was one of the most brilliant moves in rock history! Do we really need a "lets bitch about Axl" thread?

I *think* he means 1 full new song instead of the medley.

Good list.  I agree with mostly everything except for GNR's legacy.  The legacy is intact and time will tell what a brilliant band GNR was.  Remember, the fire that burns twice as bright, burns twice as fast, and GNR has burned so brightly....

- British accent on Ain't It Fun?

- Did they leaked the songs?
 

Well.....I won't talk about all of your list, you're entitled to that. Okay, ?a few yes, some definitely not.

What I will say is that your comparison to Zep, Stones, Aerosmith. POINT BLANK: The Stones and Aerosmith have been around TOO GODDAMN LONG. As there have been high pristine quality to both acts, both acts have not released good albums for almost 20 fookin' years!! 1978 (Some Girls) 1976 (Rocks). Yes, there have been some choice songs between both bands since then. But as solid as the entire Guns history? Think again.

And Zeppelin, as good as they are, are just overrated dinosaurs.

Granted, each of those bands are huge influences on GNR. But I'm sick to death of people naming these has-beens already. OK, we get it, the Beatles, the Stones, Zep, Aerosmith, yadda yadda yadda. Everyone knows about them, loud and clear. What about all the other bands since then? That don't get half the recognition? That were just as big, if not bigger, influences on GNR, or people like me?

Maybe it's just me, and that I think GNR (the entire old and new history) has more quality, warts and all, then the entire qunatity of each band you mentioned. You want your rawk safe and predictable? Be my guest.

Good list. And yes they did play a portion of Madagascar at the VMA's but only a small portion. Along with the dreads I would have also listed the football and various sports jerseys that made Axl look like a pitched tent. In regards to the no album with the tours and such.....has Axl and company really ever done anything like anyone else? I guess thats part of what makes GNR so cool. They follow no rules. Never have, never will.

Sorry-have to do this-100th POST!

YES!!!!

 :peace: :beer: :peace: :beer:

To the guy who said that releasing 2 albums for the Illusions was a good idea:

I am not being a dick, but how old were you when they were released.  I am saying this because it was just a lot for non-hardcore fans to absorb, and critics perceived it as filler.  I don't think rock historians see it as "brilliant."  In fact, I have heard many describe them as "bloated."

Obviously I, you, and most on this board would like it if they released a 10 CD set of new songs.  It wouldn't be a smart move however.

If they had released one, kick ass UYI album, it would have gone down in the top albums ever.  Instead it is seen as overblown.

As for the "Ain't it Fun" British Accent, yes, Axl absolutely sings with one, and it is lame.


And I meant that he should have sang 1 new song at the VMA's.  Britney Spears and pop stars sing "medleys."  They should have sung just Madagascar or the Blues.  Mixing the songs up with part of Madagascar was lame.

WTF is this????


if you think guns n roses got this ammount of bad points or desicions, why do you like them? ?

just start your own band and manage it your way..

Of course, we disagree with some...here are my bones to pick:

-I quite like Oh My God...though I'm aware that some people don't

-Two Illusion albums was incredible...it showed how prolific the band is

-The covers were rarely of major "hits," but were, instead, tributes to the bands inspirations. 

-My main complaint is that this seems to be a "bitch about the CD delay" thread disguised as a "biggest blunders" thread.  Your last six blunders are about new material or new material based tours.

The British accent is on "Down on the Farm."

Yep, and I actually like the British accent on that song. I think it made it stand out a bit more and made it more interesting, but to each their own.

Raven

No, no, no. ? :no: ?Au contraire mon frere. ?It's the blunders that are part of what makes this band so great. ?You never know when the nightrain is going to derail and you have to hang on for dear life. ?This is not about bitching about the mistakes. ?It's to celebrate them. :beer: ?I love the mistakes. ?Except for the following one.

Axl wearing those skimpy skin tight ball crunching shorts during the UYI tour. ? :crying: ?I can't look.

Every band makes bad decisions, and some bands make what we call really bad decisions. Old GNR only had one really bad one and that was breaking up. Axl on the other hand, well, where shall we begin?

100% ?The accent makes the song. ?Best song on the record.

Good points there, i have to say I agree with most of them.  The Oh My God thing was really bizarre and probably not the best idea.  Axl even said it was a demo at one point.
but overall it may have been good because they realized that the song's feel/vibe wasn't the direction to go into.

well 6 "blunders" seems a lot since there hasn't been a lot of new albums recently...

but only 6 for covering the last 13 years seems not enough!

i quite liked the whole list.. except maybe the 2 illusion albums. people should never never wish or say gnr should release less material!

 : ok:

i agree with everytihng there except the braids...i think it looks good. i think it would be pathetic if he was still running around with long hair, a bandana and tight shorts. times have changed.

I meant Down on the Farm.  My bad.

Wow.. Down On The Farm was pretty much the best cover they ever did.. I'd rate it among some songs on UYI, how can you say that!?!? :confused:

Fact is the amount of good legendary material these bands have produced is huge. Also, while i know a lot of people don't like newer Aerosmith, do you have any idea how many records they've sold since 76? Nevermind the consistent sell-out performances (which is also true of the stones). When Appetite was hitting big and GNR opened for Aerosmith, the album they were touring for was Pump, which i think is a quality album, and probably the best Aerosmith album of their new era. As far as comparisons to these bands, i think a lot of it had to do with Slash's guitar play, (when you talk about American Hard Rock bands, Aerosmith/GNR, Slash/Perry is easy) but also because GNR is the only band that approached the kind of legend these bands have and the kind of pure rock attitude they have. How can you critcize a band for being around too long? To me it's incredible as i hope for more GNR material.

Which brings me back on topic. While i think this is a pretty good list, i have to say i agree with some of the other posts (dotf, oh my god, etc)... it's true that we can see the mistakes, but hindsight is 20/20, and none of these things seem like big problems if we have a new cd. The fact is that's the Only thing that makes GNR not as legendary or highly regarded as those other bands - they just don't have as much material.

Didn't Metallica perform a Justice medley at just about every show in the early 90's? Dude, I know you're upset, but it's easy to nitpick and complain 10-15 years after the fact. Try making some of those decisions in those situations at that time and you will quickly realize it ain't easy

The biggest mistake GnR made was not writing and recording material while on tour for three years between '91 and '93 and taking on the grunge movement.  Izzy said it some interview, the band no longer sat around and just jammed acoustically.  GnR should have been writiing while they were toruing, regrouped after the Nirvana/Pearl Jam wave and took those bands on.  Instead Axl fled to the hills for 15 years.  GnR vs. Nirvana could have been a positive thing like the Beatles vs. the Stones. 

I think Axl wanted to sustain being the biggest band in the world but you can only burn so bright for so long.  New generations like different music.  However, if GnR kept putting out quality music their core would have stayed, there would have been plenty of new fans won over and GnR would be with U2 right now as the part of the last great relevent bands standing.

why didnt axl make out with brittany like madonna did?

give him time...

Actually, releasing two albums instead of one might not have been an artistically great move (there is some filler on there), but the fact that both albums sold pretty damn good and actually debuted at numbers one and two in the charts has put another record behind their name. In every rockumentary type thing about them they talk about their "best selling debut of all time" and their '91 follow-up albums which made them "the first band to have two records debut at numbers 1 and 2 in the charts".

I strongly disagree on that. Releasing two double albums at the same time is something that shows just how great and unique this band is. Any other band with so much material would go like "OK, we'll release half of it now and the rest in a couple of years and we'll keep feeding ourselves on the material we already have without having to write any new songs". It's called marketing. GnR didn't do that. Instead, they took up this enormous project and pulled it off amazingly well. Maybe, these rock historians should give GnR the credit that they had the guts to do something like that, somehing that no other bad has ever done, as far as I know.

Plus, the two versions of Don't Cry were part of this big project. I don't know if they were necessary like you put it, I know that when I first heard it, I thought "Well, not only do they cover mega songs like "Knocking on heaven's door" they also cover their own songs from one album to the other! That's super, that's unconventional considering the simultaneous release, that's like pulling a curtain and saying to the fans "Hey, come inside, take a look in our world, this is how we work with our songs".

And one more thing. IMO, artists with originality should not care about "what the public can handle". They should only care about what they have to give to the public. And those who can't get a grip on it, .. well... you know how the song goes  :peace:

Well, in my opinion, the fact that they haven't released a live CD/DVD from a concert from 87-91 drives me nuts.  Ofcourse, Axl probably won't push for such a release since he has a new band and is "focused" on Chinese Democracy but maybe Slash, Duff, Matt, and Izzy can do something about it. 

I know it's not necessarily a blunder, but it's something that the original band should've done.

Absolutely, big mistake, instead they did it as soon as Gilby entered the band, which in a way gave Guns a more dynamic-on-stage presence, but it was less GN'R already.


They weren't a band anymore, I mean,? in the brotherhood? they were born as a band.


I agree with this, I've always thought that Slash should have tried to record something in the direction Axl wanted, it wouldn't have been the end of the world, I think Slash wanted to be too much the same, eventually, just as Oh My God, the new direction would have shown that wasn't the right one. They would have gone back to basics, and rock the world again the way they just knew how to. As a matter of fact, and it's been said here, Axl dropped that style and he's going back to the hard rocking style, with some electronic shit, but still keeping it cool. Slash has worked with so many other people, he would have done well for an album and then just reinvent GN'R or whatever.


When it comes to this, it could be polemic, cause indeed a single use your illusion album with a perfect song list would have been killer, and would have sold as much as the appetite and with a different style, and out of topic what would that list be?? Is there a topic for this already?

because axl has some class

I guess we can disagree about "Down on the Farm."  I think it would be a much better song without the accent.

Not sure I agree on this one.  I didn't like VR's "Set me free" when it came out.  I thought it was week.  But when you listen to it in the context of the entire album, it was awesome.  Oh My God could also have been very cool in the context of an album that was all like that.  On its own, it had no legs...

Yeah, I bought that album (I think it was for Romanian orphans).  I didn't have a CD player then so I bought the cassette.  I'd always have to fast-forward to Civil War and I resented having to listen to the very end of some terrible Mike & the Mechanics song that was just ahead of Civil War.