Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I've created a gnr poster using my own photos and i just want to know if i can sell it or will selling it infringe copyright

ive been told if i remove the gnr logo on it then as the photos are my creative property i can sell it without infringing copyright laws, does anyone think merck would reply if i asked him directly? (i understand thats a long shot)

Yes it does... but if you use it as your personal art, it doesn't matter... Dont go selling it! because of the logo and the name!

That depends on alot of things. Mainly you need permission from each person who took each picture. Also, if ANY of the pics were illegaly taken at a show, then that/those pics can't be used at all.

No, it doesn't.

Without the logo, pictures taken by an individual are copyrighted and owned by that individual. So if you took the pictures then you're fine.

You might have a problem with what's called the "right of publicity" - which is the right of famous people, such as Axl, to control how their image is used to endorse products. However, since the poster doesn't really endorse a product that shouldn't be a problem


(Added bonus: I'm writing this while sitting in Copyright Class in law school.)


 - SammyD1st

i took each photo

its not illegal to take photos at a gig surely, it said on the back of the ticket that cameras were not allowed, but thats hardly a legal contract

Well you better keep studying.  :rant: The fact that he's selling a product that uses someone else's name or likeness (Axl & the band) without their consent completely infringes on copyright laws.. Regardless of who took the picture. There are exceptions for news oriented material, but this would not qualify. I wouldn't bother writing Merck, they'd shoot the idea down in a heartbeat if they ever get to it.

I'm just telling you what I learned from having a "Photo Pass" at MSG. One guy was there (with a Photo Pass) to take still pics of Ron, and was STRICTLY prohibited from taking pictures of other members of the band. In fact, Axl never even came to our (Ron's) side of the stage for "Welcome To The Jungle" just because I was filming and this other guy was taking stills of Ron. After Jungle, I stepped back for "It's So Easy" and Axl came to that side of the stage... which was when he grabbed the Brazil flag from a fan.

This is all fwiw, and no one will probably care unless you end up selling hundreds of posters every month.

Use of likeness is right.  You can't sell this.  Unless you want to get sued.

And oh yes it is.. Magazines most likely wouldn't want to buy your pictures, regardless what they are or how good, since you didn't have true permission. Therefore they use pictures taken by the 'professional' photographers who had prior clearance to take photographs.

i spoke briefly to a lawyer i know and she said that i own the copyright to the photos, and so i can sell the poster.  Not sure whether its different between the UK and US, im in england btw, im guessing itd be governed by international copyright law but i dont really know

Also mags use pics taken while standing on public property with the person in view FROM that area/sky (helicopters too)

But you probably didn't mention that it said "no cameras allowed" on your concert ticket. If it were that easy, don't you think we'd see a gazillion t-shirts, cofee mugs and posters on the net for sale everywhere?

Use of likeness is hardly a right. ?Why do you think Tabloids are still around.

That's interesting to know about Axl staying away from that side of the stage while photo's of Ron were being taken. I bet things like that are mentioned to bands beforehand.

Also, you're right about no one caring.. If you make the poster & sell a few to your friends, you're ok. ?: ok: Maybe just make it to prove to yourself you can do it. However, if you're on ebay selling 500/month, then yeah they'll probably shut you down.
 

"News" exclusion..

Not to mention you have the 2006 GNR logo on the poster which certainly you didn't make. 

No, that is (like I said) right of publicity.

Right of Publicity is governed by common law and state law (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights) - copyright, however is governed by Federal Law under section 17 of the United States Code. Whether a product such as this poster would infringe Axl's Right of Publicity is debatable, however courts usually only apply this right when the celebrity's likeness is being used to seemably endorse another commercial product. Check out http://www.caslon.com.au/ipguide24.htm#Cases. However, since it is debatable Axl's lawyers would have a non-frivolous claim against you on that count.

Next, the restrictions on the ticket "no cameras allowed" is a legal contract. Terms printed on concert tickets, plane tickets, and resort cruise tickets are all legal contracts. They are, however, adhesion contracts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_form_contract) so courts often do not enforce their terms, based on a balance of the equities, ie fundamental fairness.


 - SammyD1st

How is it infriging on copyright laws? If  you take a legit poster and sell it on ebay its not illegal. So why would this be?

I see tons of homeade gnr t shits for sale esp after the shows.

Let me just remind you all of the leaflet that was passed out on the European Tour this year:

(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/banditaunit74/legal_dis_gnr.jpg)

Sorry, didn't see that part - everything I said applies only to US law. I don't know UK law hardly at all, except that I know your general Freedom of Expression laws (including copyright, right of publicity and libel) are generally more strict that in the US. So if you were in the US I'd say you'd be fine, but in the UK it might be tougher.

 - SammyD1st

i hardly know about copyright issues but from a designer standpoint, i can say that regardless of the resolution of that poster, and depending on the type of impression you're going to use, the colors are a bit tough to reproduce in print.. there's so much dark spots, it's hard to say if that's gonna end up well printed.. did you test it?

It's all so very complicated, as far as "understanding" why you can't do what you're trying to do. That's why that other poster is taking a class on it.

The illegal concert shirts on sidewalks after shows are all ILLEGAL. But those people have no life, probably already have warrants for their arrest, and are selling shitty quality shirts that band management assumes the fans KNOW are shitty shirts. There's only one reason why they don't have problems selling the shirts after the shows. The law enforcement system in most countries has broken down and no longer functions within the technological age we are living in.

Yeah but I still buy them. I have a Lollapalooza shirt from '93 where "Georgia" is spelled "Goergia"? :hihi:? I think a band is also either spelled wrong or wasn't on the tour. Still have my CD 2002 shirt too, in good shape.

I have a few $10 shirts i've bought in parking lots after a show. I guess i've been lucky, becuase i've never gotten a shitty quality shirt. Hell, a couple of them have held up better than the $40 shirts I've bought inside the venue.

I think selling that poster for profit would be an infringment. I wouldn't mind having one of them though, if it turns out good.

... just because I'm having fun talking about GnR and reviewing for law school finals at the same time... (and again, I'm only talking US law)...

To continue the discussion of the legal contract on the ticket, the above terms are a legally enforceable contract. However, the automatic copyright assignment portion "audience agrees that all recordings... are automatically and forever assigned" would very likely not be enforced by a court. Either copyrighted works are "work for hire" or they aren't, and when they aren't courts are very reluctant to enforce assignments in adhesion contracts. So, overall, you likely do not have a copyright issue - even in light of the ticket contract terms.

However, the violation of contract issue remains for the actual bringing of a camera into the concert. The damages on such a relatively minor breach would, fortunately for concert-goers, likley be rather small - at least compared to a copyright or right of publicity infringement.

But overally, I'm not interested in pissing off GnR Management - and they would be able to sue you, they just might not be able to win. So unless paying the lawyers to defend you would be less than the profits you expect to make then it doesn't make economic sense to sell the posters. 


 - SammyD1st

Who would buy this?  it is awful

Are you kidding me?  Did you ever wonder why the guys selling those shirts keep them under their jackets until arena security drives past them? 

2nd, I'm not saying I could do any better, but the poster isn't a great work of art, sorry.  :no:

3rd, wouldn't it be kick-ass if we could just get an official GNR 2006 poster? 

I don't enjoy spending money on alot of things, but dammit, I have been waiting years and years to spend money on GNR.  2 concerts and merch just isn't enough.   :peace:

I still believe we're gonna get CD this year.  Don't worry.

It'll infringe copyrights, sure, but let's be realistic.  Guns have enough to worry about and spend money on than some small-time punk selling posters on eBay (no offense).  Worst case scenario, someone will send you a cease and desist.  They're only encouraging bootleggers with their inflated merch costs at shows and a lack of an official merch page on gnr.com.

That aside, I'm going to be completely honest with you... your poster wouldn't sell anyway.

sell that shit until legal documents are served to you!!! Fuck everyone!!!!

I got one of those for selling GNR concert bootlegs on ebay 4 years ago.

Yes, it is illegal to go to a concert, take pictures, and resell them. 

no selling!!

Considering GN'R Management read this board, this is pretty dumb of you to share your plans if you intend on making a profit from this.

Even using the GNR name without explicit written approval is a violation of the copyright on the name. You would get sued so fast your head would spin.

No he wouldn't.  Think for a second.  The band would lose much more money issuing a court summons than they would just to ignore it and let the guy sell a few dozen posters (at most).  Cease and desist is really an idle threat unless something more serious is at stake (leaks, for instance).

Just hope Axl does not hear about this....or you will be the reasone we have no CD......downloadin motherfucker !!   :hihi:

This thread hasnt been deleted yet? :confused:

The bands copyright lawyers enforce the copyright to the letter of the law. Trust me when I say if they will sue/threaten to sue if you violate the copyright. They even go after some websites with the words guns n roses in the url....

how is it dumb? i posted so i could find out if it was illegal, im not trying to rip off gnr for gods sake

i dont understand why my threads been met with so much animosity, im not some guy tryin to rip off his favourite band, im just a skint student who wondered if he could legally use his photography to make some money

but thanks for bein an asshole

good job