Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Dear Mr. Rose,

I wanted to send a personal THANK YOU note to you for taking up the cause of democracy in China. : ok:

This is a truly worthwhile cause, and one which we have failed to live up to in the west.  Communism currently flourishes in China because we in the west have allowed China to become our cheap labour manufacturing base.  With the vast amount of products built in China, poverty has faced much erosion there.  Over time, even the poorest of the poor have begun to amass a modicum of wealth.  While China is ostensibly on its way to becoming a capitalist society, it should not be forgotten that it is still totalitarian, and while the people are starting to have some financial stability, they are not free.  It is important to remember that Capitalism does not necessarily equal democracy or freedom, and it is freedom and democracy that the people of China deserve.

It is shameful that our belief in freedom seems to only apply to ourselves and not to others, like the Chinese for example.  Mr. Rose, regardless of when your Chinese Democracy album hits the shelves, you continue to strike a mighty blow against the communists with all the publisity you have generated for the cause.  Please continue to carry this torch of freedom.  I am a former refugee from Communist Poland, and I remember how Americans were coming to our aid, and we are eternally grateful.  We must do no less for the people of China. :peace:

For all the derisive fans out there, I urge you to set aside your whining about the album and support the cause.  With your help, Chinese Democracy will arrive sooner.  Here are some links for you to read up on the subject.  Please learn about China and the democracy movement.  Support the cause!  Fight tyranny!  Believe in freedom of expression!  Even with an "iron fist", the time of the oppressors must come to an end.  If anybody knows of any good constructive ways to support the cause, please post them here.

Chinese Democracy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_democracy_movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Support_Network

http://www.chinasupport.net/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

http://www.hrichina.org/public/index

http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/147/

http://www.freechina.net/2006/index.htm

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7288/fifth.htm


Falun Gong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

http://www.falundafa.org/


Thanks you Mr. Rose!  For the music, and for the cause.  Freedom will come soon!

 :peace:Bang Bang :peace:

By any chance is your name Ted L. Nancy?

Delusions of grandeur. I like Axl and all . . . but naming the album "Chinese Demoracy" does not a philanthropist make.

Bono and the war on poverty is one thing. Axl is something altogether different.

A stretch my friend, a stretch.

i never get what falun gong is, can someoine explain it an easier way?

I can try... the really simple version is that Falun Gong is nothing more than meditation.

Their beliefs are no more threatening than yoga. It's like a club for meditating.

The reason that the Chinese Communist Party doesn't like them is that one time the Falun Gong leaders decided they would all have a big meditation party, and got like 20,000 people all together the next week in a square in some town (I don't remember the details, stay with me here).

When the ChiComs saw that the Falun Gong leaders could assemble 20,000 people in a week they basically said "oh shit, anyone who can get that many people together can topple a government, let's repress them." So the ChiComs arrested some Falun Gong leaders and told people to stop doing Falun Gong.

So of course as soon as a government actually directly represses thier people, the people start resisting. And thus you have demonstrations by Falun Gong members.



 - SammyD1st

And here's a much more informed answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Suppression_of_Falun_Gong

(I was decently close, off the top of my head)


 - SammyD1st

Did Axl take up the cause? because the lyrics to CD sound like "It dont really matter....gonna leave this to yourselves....no it dont really matter...leave this thing to somebody else" Im not sure that is taking the cause aggresively.

oops...i think i missed the part of this thread that speake about gnr

If I?m not mistaken Axl said something along the lines of he doesn?t know why he using the name Chinese Democracy, he just likes it.

Maybe because like the real thing, Chinese Democracy the CD will not be seen for along time, if at all.

i like this thread

you do know axl probebly will never read your letter right?

Maybe he just thought it sounded cool.

LOL These long thought out threads...

Ha ha,  :rofl: that's pretty funny.  I just looked up Ted L. Nancy on Wikipedia.  No that's not me.

I am really a huge GNR fan from way back in the summer of 1991.  I still remember my days in college during the mid 90's when I was cranking out some GNR and most people weren't into it.  My, how things have changed.

I recognize that Axl is a vocal genius, but there is a lot that I don't agree with regarding Mr. Rose these days.  Not that it makes any difference, but I am so disappointed in the long wait for this album that I think I would have just ignored it if not for the cause of Democracy in China.  This is a cause I can get behind.  As I said, I come from a country that was annexed by Communist Russia during WWII.  My family fought against the Communists and so we were exiled.

I guess my message is as much to the fans here as to Mr. Rose.  If Axl really cares about freedom in China, and he feels that his massive delays are just a publicity stunt to get the issue the publicity that it needs, then he should just go for it.  I as a fan would honestly forgive the delay if that were the case :yes:

When I started this thread, I guess I was curious about if GNR fans actually care about Chinese Democracy, or freedom at all.  After yesterday's lackluster performance, I thought that no one would touch this thread.  Now that would would have been an ironic shame.  All these fans clamoring for Chinese Democracy who couldn't care less about democracy in China.  I am pleasantly surprised to see that some people have posted a few replies.

It is an interesting question if Axl really cares about democracy in China.  He seems to.  When he was interviewed at the MTV Video Music awards, he said so.  Has anyone actually transcribed this?  If so, please post here.

If he doesn't care about Chinese Democracy, then that would be even more disappointing than no album at all.  One might suppose that the way Mr. Rose runs the Guns N' Roses operation might be a sort of "Chinese Democracy".  I certainly hope that this is not what he is trying to imply with the title. :no:

Anyway, if anyone can think of a way to support the cause, or for people to learn more about it, please post that here too.  That would be a truly constructive usage of time for the betterment of the world. : ok: :peace: :beer:

Peace, out,

Bang Bang

P.S. Oh, and free Tibet!

sounds like hippie talk to me

Well I guess it takes one to know one my tree-hugging, granola-munching friend. :-*

Remember, hippies stand up for peace not for freedom.  I say stand up for freedom.

I have worked in an industry for nearly a decade that produces virtually everything in China.  It is because of China's human rights violations that manufacturing has been able to flourish there.  As a result, it is impossible to manufacture products domestically because we cannot compete in terms of cost.  And so the west is in a state of decline as a result of its diminishing manufacturing base.  If you don't care about China's freedom, at least you should care about your own wallet.  Put that in your peace pipe and give it some thought.

Does everybody here really not care about democracy in China?  Do GNR fans really only care about their own freedom?  You know, the National Socialists believed in freedom as well.  Only their own freedom.  I don't mean to be slagging anyone here.  We all have the freedom and the right to do what we please.  But, if Mr. Rose is a true supporter of democracy in China, can you see why he may have contempt for his fans?

Here is an excerpt from Axl's interview with John Norris at the 2006 VMAs.  It sounds to me like he cares about China.

John (in reference to the Chinese Democracy album:
"Keep 'em guessing, but it'll happen before democracy comes to China?"

Axl Rose (Nods):
"Unf...  Probably unfortunately."

John:
"I know it is an old tired joke, I've just heard it so many times."

Axl Rose (Laughing):
"Unfortunately."



Bang Bang

http://www.freetibet.org/

By the way, here is the interview with Axl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqKKo8QEqaU

Bang Bang

Your contradicting yourself. It's because of China's low costs that make our products cheaper and hence our wallets are in better shape. Our wallets benefit from China's misfortune. That doesn't make it right, but a democracy in China would make consumer goods more expensive here, so its got nothing to do with caring about your own wallet.

I believe Axl cares about democracy in China (as evidenced in the quoted MTV interview) but its not the point of the album. "Chinese Democracy" is a metaphor for a time in his own life. The song itself is autobiographical. The album has nothing to do with Democracy in China.

WORD  : ok:

Hi Estrangedpaul,

That's a very good observation. ? :yes: ?In the short term, we are saving money by manufacturing in China, but if we keep losing our own manufacturing capabilities, then work shortages will continue to increase in America. ?You're not saving money when you're not making any. ? :no: ?It's the middle class that will suffer here.

China is poised to enter the North American market with their own cars. ?They have the potential to be very cheap, but will this be good for America and Canada or even Europe? ?The moribund American car makers could be wiped out. ?This is the stuff that recessions are made of. ?Anyway, we don't have the same access to the growing Chinese market as China has to the rest of the world. ?Good luck importing your products into China.

Anyway, the main point is that the people of China deserve their freedom as much as anyone else does. ?China's lifeline at this point is the money that it draws from their exports. ?The best way to achieve freedom in China is for their export market to demand it. ?We are their customers, and we should demand that their people be free.

Progress is being made. ?China is more and more running a free market, and it has been very successful at it. ?In a bizzarre twist however, this success is what has been propping up the communist government. ?Even many Chinese people now believe that their version of Communism has worked for them. ?The main reason China's Communism appears to work is because it is capitalism in disguise. ?But like I said, this doesn't make the people free. ?Everyone deserves their human rights. ?That is the main issue.

No one can really speak for Axl. ?He may have 2000 different intentions with the Chinese Democracy theme. ?I personally hope that he cares and is taking the Bono route. ?His art needs no validation, but if he chooses to validate his work with this good cause, I'm all for it.

Bang Bang

didn't axl actually say the song chinese democracy was inspired by the movie kundun?  i remember he spoke about the film in 02.

Good post and I agree China deserves to be free. It's interesting in the last paragraph you said he might have 2000 intentions with the Chinese Democracy theme. 2000 intentions was an alternative name for the album (i believe) so maybe he was tryin to tell us something. :hihi:

Kundun was actually on TV here (Toronto) about a week ago.  I was too busy to watch it, but it looked very interesting and I made a point of writing down the title so I could rent it.  That's very interesting you should mention it.  It was released in 1997, so I guess it was in Axl's "wilderness years" and it is highly probable that it was an influence for Chinese Democracy.  I will definitely rent and see this film now.

Do you perhaps recall where Mr. Rose spoke about Kundun?  Does anyone have a video clip of this?

Bang Bang