Here Today... Gone To Hell!

2006 is out, people, lets just deal with it. 

A secret album release would be a doable idea in 1986, but today it is impossible and completely unrealistic.  A secret release would be impossible because of THE INTERNET.  Think about it- a secret but WORLD WIDE release, all happening on the same day- someone, somewhere is opening that box early and posting their findings on the internet. 

Which brings us to the OTHER reason a secret release isnt possible- THE INTERNET!  Lets use some common sense here: CD is released secretly, only a handful of people know about it the first hours it is on store shelves, someone uploads it to the internet, people start downloading an album THEY DONT EVEN KNOW IF FOR SALE. 

Record releases have to be swift, and HEAVILY PROMOTED to do monster first week sales or the internet will rape the record company of profit.

Chinese Democracy needs MONSTER promotion, and the higher ups at the record company who dont give a fuck about merck, axl, or bucketfoot KNOW THAT.  Chinese Democracy needs to be AN EVENT (like the release of a blockbuster movie), not a scheme to trick fans.  We need to see a SOLID date and HUGE ads, a rolling stone cover, a single and video, an interview with kurt loder, guitar world/kerrang/metal edge covers, a larry king appearance, etc.etc.etc..... The record execs KNOW THIS and we WILL NOT SEE CD WITHOUT IT !

Thanks for the info  ::)

Just as impossible as a successful tour with little or no promotion. Why would the album need monster promotion if a rock band with only the lead singer as the original member did just fine on their world tour? If it was about the money, things would have been done differently for the tour.

The reality is, the actions and official statements by management DO point towards a sneaky release. Just my oppinion, of course.

Correct. Finally, someone with some sense. ?:peace:

Of course, a secret release is all we can hope for at this point...

You say a secret release would be impossible because of the internet. A secret release would only be possible through the internet. But I agree with pretty much everything else you said.

Man, I just can't get enough of people posting the same old shit like they were the first ones to think of it. The next time you want to post something, how about asking yourself if you've seen 100+ posters saying the exact same thing this week. If the answer if yes, please spare us. You're just cluttering the board.

The tour is doing "fine" yes, but not "great" by anyones standard.  One or two sell outs?  For what was once the BIGGEST ROCK BAND of its time?  Of course, if the album was out, and the tour was promoted, maybe it would be a sell out across the board and be a "hot ticket" (the goal of any rock tour).

That just makes you warm inside right :'(

Unfortunately, I agree with alot of what you're saying.

I still have yet to see anyone claiming to work for a cd manufacturing facility announce that they've began pressing CD. Of course, without proof we'd all say they were full of shit.

I'm starting to think this whole tour and everything is just a cash grab. In 02 when Axl said soon isn't the word, tickets didn't sell very well, with only a few exceptions. He knew he couldn't do that again, so put out a few demos to get people talking, then promised not once, but 3 times that cd is coming out this year. Ticket sales are much better this time around too. I hope my assumptions are wrong, but if Jan 1st rolls around with no new cd, then i'll know my assumptions were correct.

You know what, I see more people clammoring about a "secret release" rather than thinking about it in more realisitic terms, if it really even is POSSIBLE to do- so I thought, why not present the arugement AGAINST a sneaky release in its own thread, to really spark the debate.

Hey, it's a MESSAGE BOARD, isnt that what it's for?

just realx everybody....geez some record stores dont even hear about albums until a week before release....have patience both axl and merck have difinitively said it'd be out this year so lets take their word on it :peace:


the cd will sell itself and after release the promotion will come

Is there ANY commitment to this "surprise release" theory that keeps being repeated over and over and over?   


It's an out of control rumour isn't it?   Perhaps started by Merck's statement in RS magazine which has already been confirmed as sarcasm.

Main Entry: sar?casm
Pronunciation: 's?r-"ka-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwar&s- to cut
1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm

Has Merck said this since he nixed us being able to discuss the RS article? If he has, i missed it. If he hasn't, maybe it's because his comments in that article are no longer valid, and that would explain why all talk of said article was nixed.

You think you're going to be the voice of reason? People believe what they want to believe. In any case, the argument has been presented repeatedly - I am not exaggerating when I say that I've seen 20 threads with similar intentions and content in the last two weeks, and that doens't even take into account the number of people who have said the same in other threads.

You know, I've never believed this myth. I've heard it for years...

 :-\

Neemo, don't be naive. You can listen to Merck and Axl all you want. I'll wait to hear from the record company at this point. Just because Merck and Axl want it released doesn't mean the record company wants to release it-at least right now. A lot of parts to this equation...some of them more powerful than our little fiery redhead.

what else do we got ...axl and merck have talked...the record company hasn't :P i agre there is lots we don't know i'm just goin by substantial evidence....that being the interviews we've read and heard with axl and merck :peace:


yeah well how does the band sell thousands of tickets to shows all year from a few thousand online fans (they have prolly played in front of nearly a million fans this year by now) ...when people see a new gnr album on the racks they'll buy it :peace: after the initial week or so promotion is bound to start hot and heavy IMO :yes:

I'm with Neemo on this one...

There's been little to no promotion for this tour (aside from a poster here and there) and the tour has been successful.  An album with little to no promotion should logically appeal to the same fanbase.

I'm going to start counting each time I see a new thread started about how either CD will be out by the end of 2006 or will not be out by the end of 2006.
























1

YOU have not figured out how to secretly release an album.

Somebody else may have.

Granted I never listen to fm radio, but I never did hear/see a single commerical or flyer in the Baltimore metropolitan area ... period. ?So people who are basing their opinions on whether or not Chinese Democracy is due out soon off of the "secret" or no promotion theory, that truly may or may not be the scenario this time around. ?In fact the truth is, I don't think anyone around here knows what to think anymore as far as the release date is concerned. ?Those of us who are optimistic for a 2006 release are at this point just a right are us who are pessimistic about a date. ?It seems like speculation is the fuel that feeds the GnR fire anyways, so who knows... ????

That doesn't make sense. The cd usually has the band name and sometimes album name, tracks,etc on it. Then there's the cover art. Somebody in a warehouse/manufacturing plant would know something.

You may be able to ship them out under a false name, but you can't manufacture the fuckers without somebody knowing what they're working on.

isn't it just a bunch of robots anyway :)

sure, you just sign into a website, upload your tracks and cover art; the robots do everything and it's in crates, ready to ship before the next person touches it... oh, it's not? damn.

anyone ever think that the record company is not prepared to spend even more cent on the record, and if it flops 'guns n roses' will be in debt for the advance....

record companies don't just give the artist money, the lend it to them and they have to pay it back out of their portion of the product sales...

Universal or whoever the label is not... may have washed their hands of it and left it up to axl to do the rest. Afterall I think they've given enough. Why would they spend more million to recoup it. Legally they can go after 'guns n roses' for the cash... or another label would have to buy them out.

So its really up to axl to deliver a master piece or else that is so good it sells on merit alone... otherwise the entity of guns n roses may never put another album on record companies dime... it will be up to axl. In which case we may get the next albums sooner because Axl will need the money... or he'll say fuck it.. he's still a millionaire even if guns n roses is bankrupt

its funny people say that they need promotion to sell it cuz nobody cares about gnr anymore but then turn around and say that regular joes at factories should care enough that they'll join a forum and tell us they are pressing the album....c'mon which one is it ::)

to those in a factory they do it they back a bazillion albums a year what is one more? they get a memo saying shut up and they do or they lose their job .... simple

I'm not saying it is coming out for sure but it still may IMO :peace:



yay sombody else gets it :beer:

Have you noticed that ALL the positive signs about the release of CD are coming from Axl's camp and not from Universal (GN'R tour dates are not even mentioned on their sites unlike other artists) ?

That says a lot imo.

FYI, although I dont like this band "Limp Bizkit" released that "unquestionable Truth" EP with ABSOLUTLY NO promotion or any word on the internet, it just appeared in the shops, so this topic is just ANOTHER pointless topic. ?If it happens it happens, it happens, if it doesnt then it doesnt, I'd like to think am a fan who will wait until the album is ready. ?I'd love it to come out next week or week after without any promotion, am sure with all the GNR fans woldwide it'll still sell alot without massive promotion, ?but ive been let down before by GNR so when it happens Ill get my copy(or two) and take it from there, hopefully another gig in Glasgow ?8) :).,
I love the new band just wish there was an album out to stop the doubters/haters from their mindless attacks on Axl and the way he operates, anyway, ill just keep checking in here every day checking what the updates are, cant't be bothered with any more "its not coming out this year" posts or "my mate who works in HMV says Nov21st", unless anyone has word from AXL himself or maybe Merck then no one on this board knows any more than the next person.
I do wonder if Jarmo has heard it though....Jarmo.............just wanna know, simple honest question...yes or no ?:peace: :beer: :beer:

On the other hand, Merck said clearly that it could be a "secret" release, without any annoucement.

But can we trust Merck ? We'll see.

didnt mysterion dub the secret thing as sarcasm?

I could give a shit if they choose to promote it or not.

No gag order or confidentiality agreement is going to shut up a factory worker,IMO. Prove they blabbed. If I worked at one of those places and just spent my shift pressing that cd, i'd just either mask my IP address or i'd go to a public pc somewhere and post the news. I'd try to use a cell phone cam or something to take a pic as proof, cuz i know i'd be ripped to shreds without the proof. That's just me though ( i know- good thing i don't work in one of those factories ;) ?)

The only way i can see a secret release actually happening would be to have it pop up at gnr.com and/or iTunes for download.

If they can pull off a secret/suprise release otherwise, then more power to them. They'll have other bands coming to them wanting to know how they did it.

umm its going to be a secret release, and the album will come out this year...whats so hard to understand about that? and by "secret" i mean no promotion, all of us on message boards and people who follow mtv.com and rollingstone.com will know about it, but the AVERAGE person who doesnt really follow anything will have no idea....its going to be a secret release, but not secret to us, im sure we will know about a week or so in advance....im still checking the store this tuesday.....thats my opinion...

If this is the case, the album would have needed an announcement by now to reach a 2006 release.  My thinking is that 2006 was the year in Sept/OCT; notice NO MENTION has come of CD since then, out of either Merck or Axl. 

Explain why this is realistic in a profit driven, capitalist society? 

oh so now we're gonna go there? :hihi: :peace:


you are asuuming that the people that work there are fans of gnr....i'm sure other albums have leaked and reprocussions have followed...whats more important to these peopel? their jobs or letting a couple thousand freakish fans getting the album a couple weeks early? not everybody is as hardcore as we are :peace:

How is that possible in a profit  driven capitalist society??

I'll be happy to explain it to you..it is because Axl Rose has NO interest in money, fame or anything else that goes along with it.? If he did, he would not go 15 years between albums, and he wouldnt spend thousands of dollars a night in curfew fees....The guy cares about making the best record he can possibly make, and putting on the best show he can possibly put on...After following this band for the last 15 years it is obvious that he is not a money driven person..he does what he wants, when he wants, and if he says the record is coming out this year, we are just going to have to take his word on that...

I realize that, but i just thought that given the 10 year hype surrounding this album somebody might get excited and blab.


That's what i said. Something may have changed between the time Merck made the 10 tuesdays comment and the time it was printed, and that's why we were silenced about it.


Yeah, i could see that being the excuse they give IF it doesn't come out this year. "We made every attempt to put this record out, but it's been a struggle with Universal" or something like that. My answer to that would be: Axl shouldn't have went on record 3 fucking times saying it would be out in 2006 if he wasn't 110% positive about it. Especially considering how a majority of the media/press/world in general like to portray him as an asshole,flake,and liar to begin with.


If 12-26 comes and there's still no news, there will still be some people saying "there's still 5 days left". I'm still hopeful for a 2006 release, but i'm doubtful at the same time.

well if you mean the RS article he said "might", so it's like who knows?.


Maybe they did so and it was GH. Once again assuming the report is accurate, the GH sales of 7 mil copies and counting worldwide should be more than enough to recoup the invest for the label. I bet they'd love to promote CD.


Madagas is right.  A musician is not almighty. A huge label is authoritative. You can't fight city hall.
But I'm with Neemo. They've made a secret of the album so far. Why not keep the way till the end?

A "secret release" might be improbable but not impossible :hihi:

come on axl n' co im sure you'll pull thogh before the end of the year : ok:

For those that have been away from the Internet for a while - it's been confirmed that Merck was being sarcastic.   

Welcome back to 2006.

LOL...the person who started this thread is utterly clueless.

Why?

BucketFOOT is awesome :) hehe, just messing with you.

I see your point but in my opinion its not GNR thats said its going to be a secret release, its us on the forum. They have said its going to be out this year and I still hope and think its coming.

positive thinking goes a long way

here hoping 4 2006 : ok:

I read someone here on the forum wrote something like "The silence the last days indicates something" and I think we all should stop speculating until November 21th, ok I dont think the album will be released then but SOMETHING will happend that day, right?

Something could happen on that day.  But something may NOT happen.

forget about the 21th. Rs one was denied by merck.
the other one was taken back by the rumour starter I think.


You mean In 2006 merck is mysteron and the words "would have been"  imply a confirmation? ???

Anyways, what kind of sarcasm it could be if he was not certain of 2006 release?

look, lets just wait and see what happens after the 19th... when better takes over :yes:

good points... alll very reasonable...

Uh, no. He is using his common sense.

Yeah, very reasonable points about a secret release.. The thing is though, they may very well go ahead with a plan and strategy for a secret release. Somebody leaking the info will probably be the only advance notice we get

I think you guys are misunderstanding the word "secret".  All secret means is that it will not be promoted, but everyone and their mother will know about it because of the internet....

Yeah, I agree, the word "secret" doesnt mean that the management does everything in their power to cover up the release date. I think they either just like you say just not gonna do any promotion because it will be promoted anyway by every news channel. I think they havnt set a release date because if they would miss it people would get pissed , I guess they will do everything in their power to release it this year. Thats the latest word we heard, that it would come this year so I guess it will arrive.

Axl said in the interview with Eddie Trunk that the 2002-thing went down because maybe he wasnt ready but some people were pressuring him to do it so this time we will let him take his time and I guess we will get CD soon.

The 19th will come and go without anything happening. The "Better" release was only inferred by debatable choice of language used in the Harley Davidson press release, never even remotely "confirmed."

well, we werent allowed to talk about it before, and now we are, so management mustve given some sort of confirmation that it is airing soon...

the harley ad is still showing "better" coming soon....................so this must indicate atleast a single soon.............right?

GnR are both mopre and less important than we believe them to be. more in the sense that they will sell many albums once it is released based on the name alone. but less, because they will never be as big as they once were, both in relative and real terms. the record company has many other big artists so they are ok for money. so the probably simply cant be bothered to promote GnR more.
The album will be quite "big" either way. So a "secret" release where we dont know bout it til it is released (more or less) is perfectly feasible. people from record shops have confirmed this. we will know bout it of course thanks to HTGTH, buit that mnay be all. the rest may be post release promo only, combined with word of mouth. there is no reason why this isnt possible.
and think how great they will look when CD goes to no. 1 in many territories with little or no release! itd just be a very happy "accident".

seriously...

Are you serious...?!? :confused:

Regardless, even if Axl has no interest in making a buck - the record company certainly does.

Why? It means that a butchered version of Better is being used in a commercial. Nothing more - anything else is just GNR's best friend. And by that I mean speculation.

He may not care about fame, but yeah, he cares about money to some degree. Take the money away, and he can't have Ferrari's, Mansions, and paid "yes men". Anyone who thinks he doesn't care about $$ to some extent, IMO, is sadly mistaken.

I think the one thing that matters most to Axl is artistic respect. He wants to be great, and to be remembered. Why else spend years and years making something perfect.

...or a fanboy. Axl cares greatly about money, as do most of us.

I was simply saying that he doesnt care soley about money, like some people were saying....if he did, he wouldnt wait 15 years between records or dish out thousands per night in curfew fees...can any of you argue that?