Here Today... Gone To Hell!

TONIGHT'S GUNS N' ROSES SHOW IN PORTLAND, MAINE IS CANCELLED

***

Tonight's show at the Cumberland County Civic Center has been cancelled due to limitations imposed by local fire marshals.

A band spokesperson commented, "Axl and the band are very unhappy about not being able to play for the fans in Portland but have been advised after several meetings with local fire marshals Nelson Collins and Bob Cadigan that they have made it impossible for the band to perform their show to the usual high standards that their fans deserve.

More importantly, we have been informed that officials intend to enforce rules and regulations that should not and do not apply in this venue. Our production manager and crew have been in this building with Clay Aiken and Green Day and none of the restrictions imposed on Guns N' Roses were experienced by those artists. It is our opinion that they are going out of their way to target and single out Guns N' Roses and the band's loyal fans. Following consultation with the band's manager, agent and promoter, it was felt that it was best to cancel the show. It is a regrettable decision, particularly at this late notice, but it is of paramount importance that our fans have the best experience possible without being harassed and threatened.

We look forward to continuing the tour in Worcester on Wednesday."

**PLEASE NOTE THAT TICKETS CAN BE EXCHANGED AT THE DCU CENTER SHOW IN WORCESTER, MASS THIS WEDNESDAY NIGHT - NOVEMBER 8TH. TICKETS WILL BE EXCHANGED FOR BEST AVAILABLE LOCATIONS AT THE DCU CENTER.

If you are unable to attend the Worcester show, refunds will be available at point of purchase.
   
 
Source(s): Sanctuary

already is a thread for this, dont you use your search button :hihi:

Heeeeeees back!

From the PR, they imply they feel they were being singled out for being Guns N' Roses.

Good enough for me.  No love lost here.

 there is always a legal paper saying why they cancelled thats signed by both partys or agreed to. If the statement is a lie. The "Venue" or Marshall company will call GNR's managment out on lieing in an offical statement. the reason statments take so long to post sometimes is because u gotta be VERY careful when telling the facts. The part where they inquired that GNR was being singled out was an opinion. But they were listing the cancellation reason as fact. and if its false. thats a HUGE no no.

Im not saying anyone is lieing about what they heard. But in person anyone can say whatever they feel to get you off there backs. But in a Offical relase NOPE.

Search function, PLEASE.

I am going to give you negative karma!!! ?:hihi:

Just joking.

that sucks for the folks that were supposed to see the show tonight.

sounds like those firemarshalls up in the northeast are being overly cautious since the Great White incident. ?why can't they (firemarshalls, etc) go over the plans ahead of time?

at least they've offered to let folks swap tix for the wednesday show. I know that may not be much consolation for the people in ME and northern VT and NH that didnt want to make the trek down this way, but its still better than a complete fuck-off.

well, reports suggested that worcester was selling really well. i just dunno whats going on.

Legally the Sanctuary can't put out gross lies. So stop making it sound bad or something else.

SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN:

Whats the advantage of canceling the show hours before, because of low ticket sales??? I just dont buy it..... GNR gains nothing(they'd still have to pay for the venue for the night)... If that were the case theres NO WAY the PR would name the Fire Marshall, for something he was not involved with!!!

Well if there is a reason beyond their control (such as the one they are presenting with the fire marshal as the scapegoat) it is possible that one could consider this incident an accidental "loss".  Therefore, they could invoke their business interruption insurance policy.  Insurance would cover the expected returns from the show (or at least tie up the whole thing in an investigation for a while) and the band can try to consolidate sales in Worcester.

The sales wouldn't be low if they'd release an album.

How long before GNR pulls the press release lol ????

I had to say it ?;D

GREAT POINT>>>> AXL HAS TO PAY THE BILL>>>> THIS MEANS THE FIRE MARSHAL STORY IS CORRECT BECAUSE AXL ISN'T GOING TO WASTE THE MONEY IF HE DOESN"T HAVE TOO>>>>

Yeah, I don't really get it why at the last minute they decided certain aspects of the show couldn't go ahead?

And where did this rumour come from about the ticket sale? It doesn't seem to have any bases in facts, or to come from anyone reliable. Where we actually have an official press release stating the reason for the cancellation.
I don't know how I feel about it all.

Personally, I believe they should provide bus travel to and from Worchester, but seeing as there are 1000's of fans, this would get VERY costly. Easily 25-40 grand.

what harrassment / threats were anticipated?

 ::)At least already there is something official

At least there were no riots, no one got hurt and there was an official statement.

But I do reccomend the Chinese Democracy frustration thread in Dead Horse. Its quite theraputic :hihi:

Dude, it says HARRASSED and THREATENED. They make it sound like GnR fans could've been in danger or something.

They've fed us so much BS in their press releases over the years it's hard to tell when they're telling the truth.

I thought Merck and GNR weren't with Sanctuary anymore.  This press release says its from Sanctuary.

That joke just cost him a karma point? ????

I have a question (cause I've not been in this situation before) - what happens if you go all the way to the show in Worcester, only to find that it's sold out, they can't fit anyone else in? You are just sol and have to go home?

Get a refund...

That's not what i'm saying. To avoid gas, time, ticket price, etc. ... just go ahead and get a refund. Don't bother going to Worcester.

I'm sure it was removed because of all the rampant speculation.

Okay... I can see that they say harrassed and threatened. ?You'll find in life that both words have various meanings. ?To one person, being harrassed requires a person to be raped in a dark alley somwehere. ?In an office setting, someone that constantly turns a coworkers chair around while they're in the bathroom can be considered harrassment. ?Poor example, but I don't think that explaining the difference is worthy of a substantial amount of my time. ?You can threaten anything, including the quality of an experience.

Sorry man. That is a damn shame.  :-\

Why do I get the feeling the Town Officials just didn't want GNR there :no:

GNR pulled a classy move with their press release and by allowing tickets from the cancelled date to be accepted for the next gig.  :beer:

I think they are doing a wonderful job of taking care of this the best they can.

I 100 percent expect them to be in Worchester, and I just bought more tickets for friends for MSG on Friday.

the band will be there.

People like you are so sad.

It's pretty sad that so many people don't believe a thing GNR tells them, but they still stick around and "get abused."

They will absolutely play the garden.. if anything went wrong there, it would be career suicide for anyone.  It's always been about NY - Axl said so himself.  Can't wait to rock out there!

hey man, thats grossly unfair. i've been defending the offical reason for cancellation for the last 4 or 5 hours. but to accept that explanation fully is something that i think would be foolish to do - there is a history of bullshitting the fans with this band. you cant believe every single thing that comes out of axls mouth.

Most things don't come out of Axl's mouth

and most of the time, when they do come out of his mouth, they are true.

yes, though, i read the rest of your posts, and i apologize for being a little harsh on you personally.

Read the press release again until you realize who's fault it was.

The band wanted to play the show, but some people decided GN'R weren't welcome at the venue.


/jarmo

where is the other press release thread??

Well, um, the San Francisco shows had no pyro if i recall. i don't remember anyone complaining that they felt the show suffered because of it. You go ahead and believe what you want though.

This little incident reminds me of a few years ago when Tool was supposed to play a show nearby. 6 hours before the show it got cancelled. the reason given was that Maynard had a severe throat infection. Within minutes of the press release being read on the air, an employee from the arena called in and said the real reason was that there had only been 2700 tickets sold in a 10,000 seat arena. That was pretty much verified when Tool played the very next night in Ohio. Some severe throat infection.

Anyone that lives in the Portland area should probably listen to the radio tomorrow. Maybe they'll interview the fire marshall and get his side of the story.

i don't think it'd be a flat out lie... because GNR knows that if they blatantly lie in a fucking press release people are gonna see adn the real truth will come out... im going with the press release.

I will be interested to see if anything is printed in the local paper or on local radio in Maine about the show's cancellation tonight. It seems awfully hard to believe that GNR's management booked a show with a venue without discussing the issue of Pyro with them. To just have it come up that it is against local rules hours before the show seems somewhat unlikely. I could be wrong, but it just seems a little odd.

(http://www.upper-makefield.com/images/departments/publicsafety/fire/photo-fire-marshal.jpg)


"He he he.  Guns N' Roses will NEVER play this town!  He he he."

Not to offend those who didn't get to enjoy the Maine show...but this is a fucking hilarious post.

The press release doesn't say what the "rules and regulations" were that made GN'R feel so unwelcome at the venue that they decided to cancel the show. Without this piece of information it's hard to know whose fault it really was.

EDIT: since then both Bach and Beta have explained it, and I'm happy with the explanation. Thanks.

Now i know what Jarmo means when he says everyone is so negative.  Oh yeah, lets not believe the press release.

You guys know if the press release has any false information, the band could get sued, right?  yeah, i'm sure they would risk that.

Of course people know this but some will always believe whatever they want to.

my thoughts:

if you weren't going to this show in the first place, you have nothing to bitch about.   This show wasn't being played for you.  : ok:

if you were going, i'm sorry to those who did have tickets and didn't get to see Guns tonight :( 

best wishes for Worchester.

Man I feel for the people that took off, drove all that way, and then got turned away at the door.  Just a HUGE let-down.  I really hope Guns makes this up to the fans. 

It does seem odd, but I think there was more to it than just the pyro stuff. I think Jarmo is right in saying GnR didn't seem welcome.

""Axl and the band are very unhappy about not being able to play for the fans in Portland but have been advised after several meetings with local fire marshals Nelson Collins and Bob Cadigan that they have made it impossible for the band to perform their show to the usual high standards that their fans deserve."

That is from the press release from GnR.  Notice how they state the actual names of the fire marshals.  Do you think for a fucking second they would do so if it was all a big lie and Axl just wasn't in the mood to play?  I don't fuckin think so. 

1.  It would be creating a false document

2.  It would be slander

3.  They would get their asses sued

So yes it sucks that this has happened.  I can understand why people who had ti ckets to that show would be very pissed.  I know I would be.  However in this case I would say that this was a venue issue.

Yeah releasing that to the press with names would not be a good idea if its a bold face lie. Might as well hold up a sign saying sue me if they did that.

hey jarmo,
 ? ?if YOU read the press release again, you'll realize that the band cancelled the show because they were not willing to comply with restrictions imposed by the fire marshall.

 ? ?the fire marshall is looking out for the safety of guns n' roses fans.

 ? ?what is axl looking out for? himself, apparently. after all, he's willing to put the lives of his fans in danger so that he can set off some lousy pyrotechnics that will drown out his band of posers for a few seconds. indoor pyro can be extremely dangerous, as we have seen in recent years. a lot of venues won't allow it at all - i would be surprised if the baltimore show does, as that venue is verrrryyy old (they don't even let you smoke inside!!)

 ? ?anyway, you ought not criticize a public servant such as a fire marshall for doing his job and enforcing the law. he is looking out for the safety of the public, and the safety of people like us.



 ? ?i wasnt going to the show tonight, but i WAS there in philly in 02, and i know how this kind of thing feels. if axl wasn't a little bitch he would be able to play a show without all the fancy dramatics and effects. whatever happened to some good old rock n' 'f'n' roll?? zeppelin didn't need fuckin pyro (or a multimilliondollar production crew) to rock out...

- moons

Damn! Moons went off though I must admit, I agree.

In this case, it's like the boy who cried wolf.  Axl and co may be completely correct and honest here.  But how many instances can one band have where you just can't believe them anymore? How many bands out there miss dates, cancel dates, show up late, walk off stage, miss the first date of a tour, rearrange dates, etc. over and over and over. And there is always an excuse. And the reason is NEVER the fault of Axl or GnR or management. It's always the city officials or promoter or fire marshall. You can give someone the benefit of the doubt once or twice but not every single time. It gets old.

I just wish the original thread had simply been locked and not deleted.? I got sucked into making several posts on this board because there was some wrong info I felt compelled to correct based on my rather extensive? experience working in the concert industry, and poof!? ?There it was.? Gone.?

Fans attending the shows complain about the time and money wasted attending cancelled shows.? I want to add the lesser but still irritating waste of time (and time is money) posting in cancelled threads.? I guess I just can't post here any more at all (unless it's duplicated elsewhere, anyway).? :(

Edit: This is another good lesson why everybody should make a point of their saving their 'pithy' posts on their harddrives or posting them on another forum somewhere as backup.

no concert is a gaurantee... everyone should know this.

shit happens... get over it.

atleast everything is still in high gear w/ the tour. so be happy.

Moons, it is clearly stated that other artists on the same venue have not had to comply with the restrictions GNR were imposed to. It was also stated that the issue is not in a law or a code applicable to the venue. If those arguments are true (which they hopefully are or someone is fucked for making a public statement like that), that is either abuse of his power now or negligence of his duties before. Either way the actions of the FM are fucked up.

I bet he's Christian or some other "Dubya voter" category...

Also, fire safety issues aren't just pyro related. They can extend all the way to having the stage '5" too close to xxxx' or something equally ridiculous (which might not be possible to comply with). We don't know what it was so don't assume Axl pulled the plug when he couldn't have his pyros as high as he'd like.

edit: small correction

Let me get this straight..... the show is cancelled because the VENUE people are singling Guns n Roses out and treating them differently to the other bands who have recently played their.....

..... why do I find that extremely hard to believe?!?!?!!?

The press release again looks like its written by a 5 year old ....

 "It is our opinion that they are going out of their way to target and single out Guns N' Roses and the band's loyal fans. "

Whoever wrote that needs to grow up...  ::)

How can you get that from what the lead singer of PR said?  All he said was when they come back on their own headlining tour they'd play.

just a note this is the 1st show in 41 played in 2006 that has been cancelled that isnt that bad a record. The switzerland was postponed and the Germany dates dont count as it was the Rolling Stones that cancelled so i wouldnt get too worried yet. :hihi:

Cancellations for concerts happen all the time its just magnified cause its gnr and with their history.

And another comment from Papa Roach, here :

AOL Music | Papa Roach set watches to GN'R time (http://www.aolmusicnewsblog.com/2006/11/03/papa-roach-set-watches-to-gnr-time/)



Sounds cynical to me ...

He keeps it up his time on tour with the band will end sooner than its supposed to.

The press release sounds valid to me, as there were rumor floating around from people at the show talking to civic center staff and got similar responses; but the only thing I can't understand is how did Axl and company not know about these "restrictions" until day of. Certainly, when they booked the venue they were told about said "restrictions" they didn't just arrive there and get a laundry list of things they couldn't do.

And to say clay Aiken was allowed freedom? COME ON, what is he doing up on stage so risque, blowing kisses?!

Feel sorry for the fans last night...Axl probably won't be booking that place ever again.

Oh well, on with the show

As someone who would have attended Monday's show, it is hard not to feel conflicted about this. Of course I don't want to assume the worst, but the bottom line is that Marilyn Manson, NIN, Tool, APC, Iron Maiden(serious pyro), Green Day and Fallout Boy have all played here without a hitch. Disturbed is playing in another week, with Stone Sour opening. Given all of that, it's easy to wonder why Guns couldn't find a way of working this out. I have to hope that there is more to it, since I can't see why they would move all the gear and stage props up here if they weren't planning to do the show. All the same, it was pretty late to be notified of this kind of change.

well, i suppose they thought that they could make terms.

Makes no difference to be me but sure as hell feel sorry for the fans who were attending   :no:

http://www.wgme.com/NewsWeather/streaming/newsE.shtml

I have yet to see you say ONE positive thing all day!

That press release was vague enough to avoid a lawsuit.  It's more opinion than fact really.  It is a lie nonetheless.

Dude, what is positive about this incident?  What is positive about less than half empty arenas?  What is positive about a tour starting with no release date or promotion to speak of?  What is positive about  a band like Hinder basically telling Axl to FU?  What is positive about a press release filled with obvious BS?  What is positive about Papa Roach now bagging on Axl?

I saw this band in Tampa last month.  the show was better than average, but no where near what i saw in 1991 and 1993.  I love their music (recorded), and their live shows are decent, but right now what is so damn positive about the GNR scene?  You think just because we finally get some live shows after a million years of inactivity we should all be satisfied?  Bullshit!  I won't be satisfied until the album comesd out.  And then only if it lves up to all the expectations.

this board is full of negative creeps :hihi:

Well,no matter what, the show was cancelled, no one is happy now.  The best thing the band can do is continue to kick ass through the rest of the tour and put on CD

Youd have to be pretty foolish to believe the press release....

There are naming two people in it. I don't call that vague. They could get sued for that. Maybe they're not lying ?

I believe Mr Bumblefoot more than the press release. He said all is well. Then all is fucking well :D

Welll maybe the band's management and crew thought his demands were unreasonable......

It's a rock concert, it's worked in many other places except in this county civic center....


/jarmo

hahahahahaha

yes!

It doesn't matter what they do, there will always be complaining. Even if they perform a kickass show in front of a superb audience... someone will still complain about the setlist, how Finck's own interpretation of the November Rain solo isn't as good as Slash's, why the old members ain't there on stage, why they're not playing more new songs, why Chinese Democracy isn't released, why is there no single, why Axl has cornrows, how the nickname Bumblefoot isn't as cool as Slash, why Tommy Stinson isn't a fashion consultant...

So let's just support the band. Constructive critiscism is great, but is there really a point saying: "slash isnt ther, dey suck so much nao. ktxhbai" ?

I hope Worcester rocks!

 

I can't believe the shit you post.


You can't see how full an arena is before the doors open. Go figure.

The band didn't have to offer Portland fans the opportunity to exchange their tickets to Worcester. They could've just said "get a refund".

Axl didn't cancel the show. There's a bunch of people who work for the bands that tour. It's these peoples' job to make sure the tour works. It's not like Axl is handling every job on the tour like some of you believe.

Axl does not hook up Dizzy's keyboards before the show, Axl does not send out tickets, Axl does not drive the trucks with equipment to the shows, he does not book the gigs himself etc etc. There's lots of people on the crew who do these jobs for the band. Time to realize that.




/jarmo

Sorry but wouldnt that be some funny stuff to see Axl walking up you driveway delivering the tickets, then when you get to the arena the trucks arrive an Axls head popping out the window backing the truck into its allocated space, and then while your standing waiting seeing Axl running about doing all the equipment checks etc.



Lets face it the show didnt happen we got a press release, a lot of us believe it like me, others have to think there is always another reason and that every thing the band says is lies, because the press never lie do they.  ;D

Agreed. Believe it or not Axl is not the only person in the world. As jarmo said, there are a bunch of people who are on tour with them. Also, as was said before, the fire marshalls were NAMED in the press release. You can't just go naming people that didn't have anything to do with the cancellation. That's called libel and it is an offense worthy of a lawsuit. If GNR are sued for libel then they made it all up, if not then we might have to accept that there were strict regulations at this particular venue that the band and the suits were not willing to accept.
 ? ? ? ?So we could believe in a huge conspiracy that involves Axl seeing the future and knowing that no one will buy tickets the day of the concert, cancelling the show, paying off two completely innocent individuals to take the fall for him, and offering exchanges for the next show in order to appear as if he was genuinely sorry for what happened (when in reality he's really laughing maniacally while reading our comments on the board) or we could believe that GNR felt they were being treated unfairly and could not put on the show they wanted. Isn't the simplest explanation usually the right one?

I'm sure Jarmo didn't mind the 5 hour bus ride for a no-show: ?hey, it's rock-n-roll, baby!  :rofl:

I won't bother re-posting all the stuff that got deleted by the unceremonious dumping of the entire other thread (which, by the way, is really disrespectful of people who take the time to contribute and post on the board, and aren't just posting personal insults or empty negative stuff). ?All I can say is that I have yet to see any evidence that the so-called restrictions placed on the band were severe enough to warrant calling off the show (or were not severe enough to justify the show going forward). ?Given that just about every other major artist has played the venue with no problems, I suspect -- but don't know, obviously -- that the restrictions were not ridiculous, and were probably pyro-based (which is understandable in the New England area).

I love GnR, But why then does this stuff happen all the time to Guns n Roses and their fans. It happened in the 80' the 90' and in the 2000's. Look at the constant varible.Im just stating the facts. It is wrong to cancel a show hours in advance. The things they claim killed the show are worked out weeks/months in advance they have to be. It is an unrealistic excuse, and even if it was true then play the show without the pyro, im sure the fans would rather that than no show at all ...its about the music not the fireworks.

i think it`s definitely part of the truth, you know what i mean?    it`s not the main part though...

i don`t know what happened and i hope everything is well, but the possibilty of axl jumping the gun should not be dismissed...

Thanks for your concern.

It was a seven hour bus ride.




/jarmo

Yeah, it's weird how he has a whole new crew for this tour, and they still will blow off 3000+ much needed fans just to be able to win some pissing contest with some authority figure -- just like all the other crews. ?I think he needs a new Human Resources Deptartment. ? ::)

And while the 'all or nothing' attitude may look good on paper, I think that if the 3000+ fans milling around the venue or in transit would have been asked, they would have opted for a slightly less bit of staging rather than no show at all. ? Hell, he could have played AND given them free tickets to the next gig to make sure they got the 'best' show. ?I bet you would have agreed to that one.

I do agree with you that the crew wouldn't be blameless. ?If it really was just a flat out ego clash or the FMs unfairly throwing their weight around, the crew should have been able to totally shield Axl from the drama. ?He didn't even have to know there was an 'issue' until he was already on stage and performing. ?Let him throw a hissy fit AFTER the gig. ? "Gee, Axl, we didn't think they were serious but they put their foot down mid-set, what could we do?"

(BTW, where exactly was Merck?)

This stuff happens to other bands and their fans alot. You just never hear about it because the press and "fans" don't blow it out of purportion.

That probably means they were threatened with fines or maybe a show cut short if they didn't do what the fire people asked....

That's how you enforce rules. Or send people to jail......


/jarmo

I believe the press release. These two fire marshalls could have been on some bizarre power trip.

yikes -- that's a long ride. ?Seriously, that's no fun (although maybe it turned into something fun).

As long as the tour remains unaffected in the long-run, It doesn't really matter that this show was cancelled.

I do too. ?And I don't think Axl was sitting there having anything to do with the negotiations. ?Instead, it was management versus the fire marshals, and then Axl made the ultimate decision. ?Fire marshals can sometimes be very unreasonable, and they may well have been extremely unreasonable last night. ?BUT the issue for debate is whether the restrictions were such that GnR could not provide a worthwhile show. ? We need to find out what specific restrictions were imposed.

Tomorrow night ;D

Was it the pyro during Live and Let Die and NR that caused the fire marshalls to go a bit nuts?

Well, you have to admit, there is a sort of precedent. I mean, either Axl really has the absolute worst luck of any rock star I've ever heard of(not entirely impossible), or he plays some role in this kind of stuff happening - GNR has more negative coincidences taking place than any other band I've ever heard of.

However, I'm no more pissed about it than I would be with any other band. It's just disappointing because I bothered to take a day off from work, etc.

I'm not sure if it's just about pyro.

Fans don't get harrassed or threatened about pyro issues.

The fire marshalls probably had a list of things that weren't allowed to happen.

This quote is what I'm talking about:



/jarmo

I can't see the connection between fire marshalls and harassment, unless the venue's policy is that marshalls must be drunk and beligerant at all times.

Well that makes us even because I can't believe the shit you censor here sometime nor can I believe the degree to which you (and others) just drink the coolaid that's poured for you. ? :P


You act like this is an act of kindness. ?He did it because he wants to fill the arena in Worcester. ?He has no control over this either. ?When he changed the Jacksonville date, I got a refurnd and then purchased my Tampa tickets....without Axl's permission. ?Imagine that. ? :o


Believe that if you want, but we all know Axl is the one with the final word on what gets cancelled. ?We also all know that Axl is an incredible dick sometimes and can pull some pretty petty and stupid stuff (this isn't even arguable).


Jarmo, I'm not sure why you only want one point of view here, or why people who might have a differing opinion are pretty much outcasts with their posts deleted and threads removed, but in case you haven't noticed, there are sometimes thinsg in the gNR world that are worth questioning. ?Like that bogus press release for instance.

That's pretty hard to believe.  A power trip?  Come on.

You really come across as a clueless negative whiner with your posts.

You have no idea how things work if you think Axl himself cancels shows.





/jarmo

They key point is that you haven't heard of the other issues with other bands. People just don't blow things out of purportion with other bands like they do GNR.

Actually, it's not all that hard to believe, in my opinion. Officials can be like that, anywhere, but especially in out of the way places like this. ?They want to feel all big and bad.

Typical. ?Someone with a different view of the situation who dares to question the honesty of a GNR press release is labeled a clueless whiner. ?Yet those that blindly believe in everything Axl says are held up as model members here. ?

Jarmo, just look at some of the Papa Roach quotes or even past behavior. ?It is Axl who has the final say on when they go on stage and if they go on at all. ?I think you'd find very few people who believe the concert last night was pulled by anyone besides Axl. ?I'm sure he had input, but ultimately it is his call. ?I don't see the road crew going to Axl and saying, "we're upset with the fire marshall, you need to cancel tonight". ?

It sucks for the fans, I'm glad to see they can use the tickets tomorrow.

 ? They put out a press release which is progress from 2002...we still don't know what happened then...

 ? so that's positive and what was written seems like there is no reason not to beleive what the GNR camp is saying. I'm sure since the Rhoad Island incident fire marshalls (especially closer to that area) are not fuckin around.... I mean that was horrible.

 ?BBF also said everything is fine so...positive

 ? Sometimes I wish Axl would use a little different approach to handling these problems (even though I don't even know if it was him who made the final call). I mean guns could have said ok...fuck the pyro, let's get on stage at 10:30 if possible....after Jungle Axl ripps the Fire Marshall a new asshole in a fuckin' wicked rant saying how they wanted Guns not to use the pyro but instead of cancelling we are here and we're gonna play all fuckin night... Give the fans a wicked set list like in Greensboro or even 1-2 more songs just as the icing on the cake and you know really win over all the naysayers.

 ? Cancelling is so easy, and so fuckin' negative that's the last thing they need....anyone still deciding to but tickets for the upcomning shows has probably just had their mind made up for them. ?

Why is it so hard to believe that the show was not cancelled because of tickets sales? The fire marshals and the building made it impossible for GNR to play. Everytime we agreed with something they found something else and that went on for almost 3 hours. Our crew were been threantened every 10 minutes that if they would light one cigarrete they would get a 1000 fine. If any of the fans coming to the show and would be cought smoking they would get a 1k fine. If anyone would look intoxicated they would be arrested. If anyband member would look intoxicated they would be arrested; if they felt that the pyro would cause any danger, they would stop the show and the list goes on. This incident has nothing to do with nybody in axls camp. promotores, our team and management came to the conclusion that cancelling was the right thing to do. Axl and band were not part of their decision at all. so please stop jumping to conclusions. is it better for the tour to continue or hv them arrested and maybe a cancelled tour? is was one show and lets blame the right people. stop jumping axls throat over this. he was going to do the show and got a call from management saying that the show was cancelled.

Now this I can understand. I completely agree that they could've taken the chance to do something completely different all the way across the board. Like you said, do everything in their power to get on stage early. Cut the pyros, hell even break down for some acoustic jams or something? Make it a special show and really show the "powers that be" who's boss.


In the end, I'm glad the fans aren't completely screwed out of a show if they choose not to be or at least they can get a refund. And overall the situation just sucks but as long as things pick up tomorrow night as planned (and I get my show on the 25th) I'll be happy!

If the show was cancelled because the fire marshals were on a power trip, the venue would have reason to sue. Seeing as the venue have placed the blame upon the band, I'd guess that it's not the case.

ther you go from Beta... more proof that all is well.

TKS BETA !! :peace:

YAY Beta!  Thanks for speaking up about that.  NE officials can be assholes

man so all these gnr shows we did , we weren't safe?
i saw guys smoking dangeroulsy near the pyro set ......

damn you gnr :)

Beta in the house....... ;D That was a fairly logical explanation.

I've been to concerts at CCCC many times.  I have seen lots of smoking and drinking without people being fined or arrested.  Why on earth would the rules change for GNR?

I think some places GunsN'Roses will get special treatment (harassed) related to security.

The band has sadly in the concert- history events that invloves deaths caused by riots, lawsuits, vandalism etc -
-and therefore GunsN'Roses and the fans being "singled out" maybe :P

C'mon Jarmo, everybody knows that Axl is doing everything from stage construction to lighting equipement, to business transactions, hell, he's even taking care of Robin's hair & beard.

It's funny how the haters are so willing for this tour and band to fail. It's like a goal or something. Years ago, when there was no communication at all, people were complaining. There was no news, no tour, no Axl, no events (VMA's, Axl here and there, Trunk, ...) there was no official website, there was no communication arround CD coming out (It is this year -> Can't be clearer than that).

Now, it's 2006. We had a successfull european tour, with good reviews. We have now an official website that gives us videos (no, I'm not aiming at the last one that never came true), a site that introduced the band.

A band that has played more than 40 shows, sometimes infront of angry crowds (Download festival) but won them over. We had (intentionally or not) a few tracks that leaked and that sounds very promising.

We have Axl all over the place, he looks fine & happy (VMA's, children hospital, post-show parties, Formula 1, swedish jails, ...)

But ... people still have to complain because one show was cancelled.

Now, management says it was because of issues with fire department regarding the arena and shit. They are even naming the people !

But no, somehow it's still Axl's fault. Maybe he wanted some roasted chicken, maybe he wanted to drink champaign on a virgin's body. Oh no, wait, it was because he was denied the permission to bring alcohol onstage.

Now I get to read that they (sorry, not they, Axl) cancelled in order to fill the next venue. Come on ... You can't be serious.

Fortunatly we have Ron Thal stating that everynthing is fine. But that won't be enough for the haters ...

has anyone heard a statement from the fire marshalls?

Some bands get singled out like that.

For example:
Many venues has diffrent standards for security on Heavy Metal concerts that other genres.
Exactly what i think too, and GunsN'Roses has taken offense it seems. :hihi:

I just can't see how this is sooo hard for people to grasp?? I'm sure the band and the organization as a whole are just as bummed as everyone else on the subject.

Thank you Beta for clearing that up. Now maybe you whining motherfuckers can get your moaning done to the people who fucked up the show causing it to be cancelled, but oh wait no you wont do that because it doesnt really affect you that much, you wasnt going to the show and now the Band are innocent you dont really see the point in moaning about it. So lets just pretend its all still the bands fault, cause all they tell us is fucking lies eh.

Fair enough.  But I am curious.  Don't they have an advance team that goes out, say the day before, and works out these issues, so if there is a problem, they don't have to cancel right before the show?

hey, at least Beta provides some concrete information, and, unless the fire marshal rebuts, it does sound like they were being very unreasonable to the point where a show perhaps couldn't -- or shouldn't -- go on. ?very interesting stuff. ?Sounds like the fire marshal and the GnR road manager did not get along and things just escalated so this was different than restrictions for other bands. ?That doesn't mean that GnR was necessarily singled-out: if the road manager was being difficult, the fire marshal's response might not have been unprovoked. ?But it does suggest that the restrictions were more than just "no pyro"

Trust me if it wasnt Beta she would have been banned a long long time ago and she is still here so its her.

Why does everything have to be a Conspiracy to some of you guys? Did you watch that Oliver Stone movie JFK too many times? Perhaps spoonfed that crap on the net about 9/11 being a big plan by the govt?

They gave us a press release explaining in english why they cancelled, yet that is not enough for some of you . Explain then, what WOULD be enough? '

Hell Axl could make a video and put it on YouTube and tell the whole story and you would say he is lying. He could have the fire marshells themselve say it , you would say he paid them off. Face it, your just looking for ANY reason to blame the band for everything that ever happens and some of you blame Axl for anything and everything no matter who says otherwise.

I am proud to be a GnR fan and have been so since 1987, but I am truely embarassed at times to be associated with some of the other so called " Fans" .

See you in Quebec City on the 18th!!

I agree with you man, alot of people will find ANY excuse to blame not only the band but Axl himself. ?OH of COURSE it's all his fault ?::)

You just get to the point where you have to start giggling at them. ?Getting angry will only make them happy :hihi:

Look, that statement I made was only meant as a joke - bad as it may have been.

I have been a fan of this band since the second I saw SCOM on MTV for the first time. I feel really bad for all the people that lost out last night. Unfortunately GnR (because if I say Axl you'll say it isn't always his fault) doesn't have the best rep when it comes to timely notification for cancellations. I try to be positive, but it sure can get hard sometimes.

I just kinda feel that Axl doesn't hold the fans as important as a lot of artists might. If he wanted too, couldn't he have said "turn the friggen pyro off and lets rock this half-empty arena's doors off. We'll blame the FM tomorrow in a press release"?. If he wanted too couldn't he have said "let the drunks get carted off - we don't need 'em. If they can't stand, how can they jam with us"?. Can't he say "publish the release date of CD and let our fans breathe a sigh of relief"?

Does anyone think that if given the choice, the ticket holders last night wouldn't take a pyro-free, smoke-free, drunkard-free show over a cancellation?

Does anyone think that keeping the release date a secret til the last possible second is gonna help sell more?

Sorry, I want reasons not to bitch.

Green Day cancelled their tour in 96 in mid tour. Claimed Exhaustion on the lead singer's part.

June 26, 1995

Pearl Jam cancels the remaining seven dates of its tour after a pair of San Diego dates are cancelled by an overzealous sheriff, a Utah show is rained out, and a food-poisoned Eddie Vedder is unable to finish a San Francisco date.

Metallica cancelled shows  http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=16191

From AudioSlave's own website     San Diego CANCELLED for TONIGHT

The Audioslave show tonight in San Diego has been postponed. There is currently no news on when the rescheduled date will be. We apologize for the late notice.

[posted 5/17/2005 U.S.A.]


I do not know what AIC is so I couldn't google it.

BUt as you can clearly see... ALL bands have to cancel on occasion. The problem is only GnR gets wide spread media coverage when it happens. Why is that?

They're at a point where each and every time one of their shows get cancelled - it sends a major negative message to their fanbase. If this was one of the first times they dropped a show - it would be no big deal. What makes matters worse is that they've never really made any attempt to make ammends towards the masses of disapointed fans who had cancelled shows ..beyond the point of simply refunding their tickets. Usually this is accompanied with vague or nonexistent explanations.

So now it's more or less a matter of them crying wolf. Crediblity is history. Each subsequent cancelled show will have a severely detrimental effect on future ticket sales - regardless of reason or issues beyond the band's control.

...this is a conformity that cannot be escaped with the usual "Gee it wasn't our fault" mumbo jumbo.

I'm starting to hate this board now.

I'm not posting until after the MSG show and only will after the HD advert has been shown and theres a release date announcement.

cut the crap... you just have no clue. I don't see how fans would loose anything... go read PR again...

Are you f'ing kidding me?!! Just when I was going to stop writing in this thread!! I was talking about the fans who showed up to the concert. Axl took the whole night away from them, imagine if you were going to attend, myb even scheduled off from work today expecting to be out until 2am etc. People who drove several hours to get there. And you're going to say "I don't see how fans would loose anything"

so?

and since when does Beta the speaking for Axl and his management...i find this so hard to believe, i even doubt that this is really Beta

there is no winning with you guys. wow...you cant just drop it. the show didnt happen, not bands decision, not axls. if axl would of performed last night and that were no pyro, no drinking and people getting fined for smoking or band members getting arrested and other shows getting cancelled over that, you guys would of complained about that too. its always something to bitch about. i understand the frustation, but fuck...stop it already. lets look foward to the next show .
anyway...im done. most of you are just freaking complainers anyway and there is nothing that can be said that will make you stop.  for those of you who are coming to worcester, see you there.

beta is smokin.

give em hell Beta...time to move on.  : ok:

I'll see you there!!! can't wait to party and eat backstage! I can't wait to see everyone. I'v met tommy in Providence afew years ago so it will be good to see him.

Beta, no offense meant here, but there are two things could be said to stop the "whining". ?First, issue a release date for the album. ?Second, and just for once, have Axl take a small bit of blame for something. ?Seriously, if all i did was read and believe GNR press releases I'd think he was the second coming of the virgin mary and everyone else was the devil out to get him. ?I'd think Slash had a bit role in the original band. ?I'd think Buckethead was to blame for missing RIR4 (or whatever number that was). ?I'd think the security guard in the hotel lobby in Europe threw his skin into Axl's mouth. ?I'm exagerrating, but you see the point.

Issuing statements that make it sound like Portland officials are out to get GNR is a bit hard to believe.

Have fun in Worcseter. ?I went to undergrad there and met my wife there. ?I also saw GNR for the first time there on back to back nights in 1991. ?Armpit of America, but I still love the town.

I hope your not trying to make it look like axl is a premadonna!

Watch out, youll get a nasty letter put up on the gnr website about you! :P

so what you are saying is that now you want axl to take the blame for shit he had nothing to do with? ????

Beta dont even waste your time with these stupid people. They are all disrespectfull whiners who think that Axl is to blame for everything and that they are owed somethiing. They think Axl is here to slave to their needs and all this shit. Fuck em, they are never gonna change. It's just sickening coming on the board reading all this negative shit from so called fans when there is so many positive things happening at the moment, minus last night.

It never ends, pretty soon they will be bitching about what songs the band decided to put on the album when it gets released.

Beta Some trolls on here are assholes, they will never get it , do not waste your time.

Rest assured the majority of this board supports GNR and are not haters or whinners.

What happens as the band gets momentum and succeeds the haters come out of the woodwork to always try and keep them down, but as we all know this train is a rollin and there si no stoping it now.

GNR will rule the world again. Count on it.

Speaking for myself, this is definitely not what I want. I don't want Axl to take blame for anything that he isn't responsible for, and I don't lay this incident at his door. I do feel that it could have been handled better, and that a clearer explanation could be provided - not necessarily by Axl, but by someone in the organization(Axl if he wanted to). There are some hardcore fans here who are feeling let down and disrespected by someone, and they are looking for someone to blame. Obviously, Axl is going to be an easy target. I don't support that, but I just want to point out that I walked by the CCC 1/2 an hour ago, and "FUK AXL" is spray-painted on the building in 2 places. Again, I don't agree with that at all, but it is how some people feel after last night. There is/was a lot of love for this band here, and I'm sorry to repeat myself, but no one who has been to any other concert(of which there have been more than a few) at the venue has experienced the so-called threats and harassment that are being described in the press release. That doesn't mean that it was the band's fault, but we need something more concrete to work with. I don't think that is an unreasonable request, but I'll shut up about it after this.

It seems the closer we actually get to CD release the more people fucking complain about the same stuff over and over again!

Jonx

Or the closer we get to CD not being released. If we had definite sings that it was coming I believe the backlash from yesterday would be alot different.

That's cold, man. I'm not a hater or a whiner. I'm very happy that the band is out playing shows, and I'm just as excited about the new album coming out as anybody. Off the point, but relevant - I have been into this band AFD came out - well before their videos were on MTV- because I saw a feature on them in the back of a Hit Parader magazine and thought they looked cool and dangerous. I bought the album and it basically changed my teenage life. Axl is probably my favorite rock star of all time. I'm only trying to portray the situation from the perspective of people who live in this town, and ask for a more detailed explanation.

Axl is a cog in big machine, ahbiet a big cog, but at the end of the day the tour is run by a management team, that's what they are paid to do. ?Axl will have the final say on lots of things but the H&S of putting on a show must fall squarely on the shoulders of the promoter and the venue. ?If common ground is so far apart then the shown doesn't go on - period.

Axl may be the man when it comes to music, but believe my Axl or any other sane person won't own a dog and bark themselves. ?Thanks Beta for coming to the darkside, you didn't have to but your imput does clear things up for most of us. ?

On a plus side, the right decision was made, unlike Leeds 2002, it seems that sticking by the book is an issue with the bods in charge. Just like Leeds 2002 common sense pervailled and no gamble on peoples lives (and I don't just mean the breething bit) was taken, the band don't need a St Louis or Philly, they've done that shit and obviously just wanna play music, give the fans 100% -that doesn't come without going the whole 10 yards

What i dont understand is why they didnt still play?

The stage is set, pyros or no pyros, drinks or no drinks, smokes or no smokes---- who gives a fuck!

People come to see the music and their band, no one really cares about pyro, drinks can be put on hold till after the show so thats no biggie, im sure people can hold off smoking for a few hours to see the band they paid and traveled to see!

Beta01, you dont see he fans side of things, your all bought and paid for by axl so money is not a problem for you.

The fans came to see the show, so play it!

Unless there were  `other` reasons which are being covered up like poor ticket sales or axl still hungover from the night before?

It seems it was a choice between two evils from the people responsible. Play the show with a chance of picky officials throwing a hissy fit, and knowing Axl would simply not stand for that (ie. Leeds 02) and have a midway cancelled gig and a riot. Or you cancell the gig, take the short mediabacklash and move on.

I think the GN'R camp are extremely cautious of not having another riot on their hands. I mean, how the fuck do you recover from that shit on your second comeback tour?

Right on polluxlm.

I can understand why the band cancelled if the allegations are correct.
How much fun would it to be to have hundreds of fans carried out by security or fined for smoking/drinking/sneaking in airport liquor bottles?
And who tells a band they can't drink or smoke during their show? That's crazy.
And who was going to judge the danger of the pyro?!
They were being set up to fail.
And with this news, obviously, management should come out with the total truth before the news media starts blaming Axl again.

Wow...I had only read the PR this morning and just browsed through the thread to see what the ruckus was about.

Trust me guys..take the PR at face value....this one wasn't Axl and crew's fault. ?The show you would have gotten, given the buildings "demands" (which, FYI, would have more appropriately been made when they signed the show), would have sucked anyway. ?If I were Axl's managment, I wouldn't want a sub par show being put on, simply because of the venue being dicks, either. ?I actually think it's a pretty stand up showing to let people do free exchanges of tix to the DCU. ?I know the travel time isn't ideal, but....at least they're trying to make it right..even when it isn't their fault.

See I see it differently. ?Maybe it's because I once worked in/for a venue. ?I think they had the fans best interests at heart. ?They could either play a crappy (through no fault of thiers) show that everyone would have slagged on and, most likely, had a bunch of their fans, and possibly crew members, ?hauled out in handcuffs all for the FULL admission priceOR they could cancel the show and offer a make good opportunity at the DCU, and offer ticket refunds.

If I were an artist, making my living by the quality of my work, I think I'd prefer the limited backlash of show cancellation, especially since I can explain the situation of WHY the show is cancelled. to the alternative: A show that does not live up to my standards.

They are, and I respect that. Maybe I'm just frustrated by the situation in general - especially when expressing that frustration gets you labelled a "hater" and "whiner."

I think it's the direction of the frustration that is bothering people. ?Being frustrated is completely understandable...just direct that frustration at the place it deserves to be directed: The venue. ?Heck, maybe write them a letter and send it to their marketing department explaining how disappointed you are, etc. ?They'll respond, of course, that they were just trying to make sure the show was in a "safe and welcoming environment" (ie: we were worried about the "element" gnr would bring, and about gnr's repuation, so we decided to fuck with them)..but at least they might think twice if enough people express being ticked off.

And on beta's words....remember, beta's frustrated, too. ?Frustrated at the show cancellation, and how it went down. ?Frustrated at the venue. ?And frustrated by some of the fan reaction because she knows the band WANTED to play that show for you. ?So maybe cut her some of the slack you all want to be cut (and that's not just directed at you, requiem...but at everyone in general).

Axl is a perfectionist ( as we all know). If he cant put on a show at the level he wants it to be, than why do a half ass show? The pyro & effects make a difference. Seems logical to me.

Yes, GN'R have a different mindset. But it's not because they're irresponsible, unproffessional, cynical or simply lazy. It's because they have to deal with Mr. W. Axl Rose and plan their strategies based on his wishes, behaviour and possible behaviour.

You think it's easy going on tour like they did in 02 and deal with god knows what in the background? If this was a normal band with a normal frontman they could very well have done the show anyway. It would have been a subpar show and there would have been some critisism. One could also go this route with a person like Axl, but with him there's also the risk of something going seriously wrong. No pun intended, that's just the way he is.

When you as an employee, with your client and your own job in mind, has to take these things into consideration, you might end up making decisions others wouldn't.

i see it differently, people paid for their tickets
paid for their travel either by air/car/bus/train etc...
take a day or 2 off work specifically for this ONE show.
Build up all day waiting for the gig.
Queue up hours before the show to get a good spot in the arena.
And the band fails to take the stage because of some lame excuse?

Surely before the gig was arranged they were given site specific snags on procedures such as pyro use and alcohol.
I dont believe for one minute that the management couldnt have known about this days before the event, even the day before would be something!

The band could have still played a show without all the dressings.
and why not, wouldnt it be nice to see the band actually just play music?
Do you really need all the bangs and flashes to make a show?
Do you really need to drink at the show when u can drink before and after?

I got no beef with axl or the band, I will always hate management because it honestly seems like they do nothing for us period.  The band puts on the shows, writes the songs, etc...   Every thing else is up to mgmt, you would think that when they first booked the show they would see something about this in the contract or maybe ask them if the explosions are ok.  Then again maybe they did and the venue dropped all this on them at the last minute.  Either way we really get nothing from them, for example we found out through ticket master of the first few shows of the tour, I think they were about 3 weeks behind on that.

I wasn't gonna post in this thread anymore, but I had to respond to this one....

If there was no drinking allowed at the show, there would be some SERIOUS complaining...fights and all kinds of bad things. ?I don't drink and even I know that. ?Some people who go to the show want to get totally shitfaced doing it.

and I'm done, I swear

;D

There goes the answer, you don't agree which is a fair game i guess :peace:

I'll have to agree with this one. When I'm going to a rock concert being shitfaced drunk out of my mind goes with the territory. But maybe that's because I'm stil in my 20s. :hihi:

If others think the way I do, there could easily have been problems during the show just because of that.

 :beer:

Well, I think in every post, I've said I'm not definitely laying blame. I'm only curious why it was so different for GNR than other acts that play here - for the band and the fans, since this type of thing is not de rigeur, or standard, for concerts at this venue. If someone answered that question, I'd happily write letters, make phone calls, or whatever needed to be done.

I appreciate that Beta is trying to supply us with some connection to the band, but her posts have been mostly directed at people who are attacking Axl, not people who are looking for ways to defend him.

The best experience is surely a show or anykind rather than a no show?

Isnt that the right decision?

It's not always that easy.

Why isnt it that easy?
explain?

As far as i can see its simple.
you turn up, you play you go.

Guns N' Roses were NEVER about doing show of anykind... I think Axl explained in a billion of statments that all the time he takes before the show is for him/the band to come to right frame of mind and give the audience 100%... and that is only fair, in my opinion.

When you go to work in the morning you have to do some things first. Some days it takes less time and some days it takes more time (partially dependant of the food you had the night before ?:hihi: ).

Read my earlier post on this page

risking someone (no matter if band or fans) would be fined for smoking or drinking or playing/dancing with too much passion... or even ending up in jail and risking million things that would become out of it... oh really fucking simple.

When is anything in life that fucking easy.

Life is not easy and surely planing and playing at a concert is not that easy. ?

There is plenty of room to disagree or be skeptical at times or have hardcore discussions. ?The facts are GNR put out a press release about why the show was cancelled so until the 2 guys called out in the press release make a statement we have no reason to doubt that press release.

And the fact that beta comes on here is great, people should show some respect for her and Jarmo. Stupid post on this board make him look bad and the rest of us.

It is sad this is the biggest fan site out there and ?lately it has been polluted with some garbage posters. If your angry with the band find another fan site post the shit there.

Do you people really think the band wants to risk losing the tour. NO FUCKING WAY.

I BELEIVE THE PRESS RELEASE AND BETAS COMMENTS 100%

This has been the best? year since when. Long time ago. Enjoy it stop the bitching.

Also if axl did play last night  some would? still find something to bitch about.

And that is my lat post in this thread, I'm not going to feed the trolls anymore in this one.l

 

That's really nice- much appreciated.

I think what you meant to say, though, was something more like, "Also, if Axl did play last night, you pathetic whiners would have still found something to bitch about." The differences are subtle, but if you look real hard, you may see them. The devil is in the details! : ok:

I agree 100%

 Like I posted before thak you beta

For way of information...I've been there, to some extent.

The band likely was NOT informed about the strict enforcement of certain policies (or new restrictions by the fire marshall)....probably because while they are part of every single venue contract they are usually not strictly enforced beyond what is needed to ensure the safety of the venue, the concert goers, and the band OR they are local ordinances that are rolled out by the local government only when they see fit.

I've worked in a venue and have heard the stories of venues that spring, by way of an agreeable fire marshall or building supervisor or whatever, all sorts of restrictions on a "dangerous" act (rock bands, especially)...and they absolutely get sprung the DAY of the show (that's the venues leverage in all this...the time deadline). I've heard the same stories about local governments engaging in similar tactics.  They're all perfectly legitamate, to a point, but they're the kinds of things nobody actually enforces because they know it will kill a show or drive a band out of town.  Usually, some sort of compromise is able to be worked out where everyone comes out relatively happy.  It looks like, this time, the venue bluffed, like some venues do, and GnR management called their bluff.  And rightly so, I think, given the ramifications of some of the restrictions being applied.  I'm assuming the late notice was because they were all working to come to a compromise until Mangement decided they'd had enough.

I'm obviously disappointed the show was cancelled, but I don't hold a grudge against Axl.  The next opportunity I get I will do everything possible to go see them.  Unfortunately, a cancelled show is the last thing they need during a comeback tour.   The general public, not the diehard fans or people who check on updates daily, will blame Axl no matter what because of past.  The majority of the people I talked to had no idea what they were talking about.  I heard that Axl was a "spoiled rich kid" and that "barely anyone has been showing up for the tour."  The misconceptions are just laughable.  Sadly, he is going to need to win over a lot of these people and this, even if it wasn't his fault, is not going to help.

I agree with Phase1. ?You don't cancel a show a few hours right before. ?You can't tell me the bands people don't know the rules in advance of a show? That's such b.s.

I was just checking other bands forums im part of and i remembered the NIN also canceled their show in portland earlier this year, just a few hours prior to the begining of the show. Can it be a coincidence? Heres the message

tonight's nine inch nails performance at cumberland county civic center in portland_me is postponed due to illness. in the next few days, we will be announcing a rescheduled date during the upcoming summer tour. please hold onto all tickets as tickets from tonight's show will be honored at the rescheduled performance. we apologize for any inconvenience and thank you for your understanding.

well if people told me, that users on this forum can't read i wouldn't have believed them untill i got into this topic and read half the dumbass responses in it.

beta has explained everything and so many of you fuckers have just ignored it so you can bitch and whine some more.

Did anybody lose bets that they would play ALL the shows?

Now that's a bet you just don't make :hihi:

I don't understand why nobody reads the PR. It said that the crew was already there with other bands and there were no such restrictions. Also, usually technical check is done few hours before show... so... it is b.s. to say that you don't cancel a show few hours before.

Maybe they could cancel it a day before, while still in NJ so the fire brigade wouldn't have to get all upset...  ::)

but it is pointless to explain to ones that don't want to listen.

Actually...that IS a coincidence.

Trent was deathly ill the previous night and postponed a Mass. gig for a week. He tried to recover for ME and couldn't. They rescheduled the show for the summer tour, and not coincidentally, played one of the longest shows of the year during that make up show.

I've seen tons of shows in Portland, many with huge pyro (Megadeth last year comes to mind...i could feel the heat from the back of the hall. Ditto Green Day.) Seems odd that GnR were restricted from doing the same thing.

Either way, the NIN thing is not indicative of the venue's issues. Just Trent's dire illness in Feb of this year.

MG

+1 - I had tickets for that show which were honored in June, and the show was great.

It sure was! I've seen NIN on every tour since 91, and this was as good as they've ever been (and a spectacular stage show).

OK, not quite up there with the tour they did with Bowie in '95, but really close...

MG

Lets say the sanction is Pyro. Thats still pretty damn lame reason to cancel. There a rock and roll band, all they have to do is play music.

Wasn't  nashville cancelled or should I put my joint down ?

I don't think that show was officially cancelled yet.  It still stands as postponed without a reschedule as of right now.

Cool....I was just thinking this stuff is stronger than I thought it was  :hihi:

As a point of information, a radio station in Portland, 104.7 WBBX(?), is stating that they spoke with the fire marshall's office who is claiming that the issues that they were not able to agree on were related to stagehands being positioned over pyro, and a spotlight which could not be positioned so as to allow heat to dissipate. I'm not sure if this relates to some physical characteristic of the building itself, or what.

To me that adds to the fact that the officials were being unreasonable picky.

It also points to the fact that the press release is true.  They probably are being overly picky and I would like to think they know exactly what this building can and can't handle.  I mean there had to be some discussion beforehand on what can be done in the venue. 

They clearly know since other bands have been allowed to play with similar stageprops before. Maybe the wrong guy was at work, woke up on the wrong side of the bed, in fact has a thing for GN'R or he were on a plain powertrip.

I totally believe the ones who say smalltown people can act like this sometimes. I'm not American, but that view keeps popping up wherever I go.

Or MAYBE the firemarshall is a huge GN'R fan and tried to blackmail Axl to give him the album before he would let them on stage :rofl:

Even if there being picky, its still a lame freakin exuse. Prove that you dont need that shit to put a good show on. There a rock band not a circus act.

Who would be stupid enough to make that bet?

The bottom line is that somebodies ass was on the line other than GnR and the old adage " Cover your ass" is being applied here!.

Like it or not, when its your ass on the line you do what's best for you - ain't that so mr fireman

Did you even read Beta's comments on the other reasons why? ?They were threatening arrest to fans who were drunk and planning on imposing $1000 fines to anyone who lit a freakin' cigarette. ?What kind of rock show doesn't have drunken fans? ?Sorry, but if I was GNR I would have cancelled too.

Trust me when I say small town officials are the absolute worst. ?They are almost all corrupt, want payoffs and live on a power trip because they have a big title in a small town. ?

This is a little funny - sounds kind of like smalltown officials are the mafia or something.

FYI, the civic ctr. was scheduled to serve beer until 10 pm. No intoxicated person who was not at risk of causing harm to themself, or someone else would have been arrested.

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3364/barneyhb8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

That's an awesome picture!!  : ok:

 :rofl:

I was thinking more along the lines of this:

(http://photos.artechtopia.com/images/FireMarshallBill3.jpg)

I work with doctors. Some people have huge egos and will go out of their way to make things difficult for other people.

Thanks Beta. I know you guys really care about us fans! I had a security guy at Soldier Field be so rude to me at a Rolling Stone's concert that I almost left.

Thanks to Beta for giving us a little more information, though I'm sure those that didn't believe the press release will not believe her either. My experience with cancelled shows is that when an actual reason is given that actual reason is true. When they say something along the lines of "The show has been cancelled due to illness" then it is for some reason that we'll probably never know. If the illness is specifically defined like "so and so" has "something" then it is usually true (especially if one or more dates are cancelled as well). When there is a press release naming two people who management feels are responsible for the cancellation, I would assume that to be true. Libel people, libel.

Sounds totally legit to me.

Like I said in another post, if anybody has ever had to work with any inspectors or city officials before, it can be a nightmare.

That goes double for the North East. They love busting out city/town/village ordinances from the 1800's just to be ball busters. Christ, if they really wanted to dig deep I'm sure they could have found a Puritan Law that would have named Axl a witch based on the Pyro display. We haven't had a good burning at the stake around these parts in ages.

 :rofl: at Puritan Laws and burning Axl at the stake. ?They really are horrible, the officials. ?Someone wrote before about them being like the local mafia and sometimes they really are. ?When 14 of them show up on your lawn because you built your deck 1 inch further into your yard than you should have then you know what I am talking about. ?This behavior is nothing new for these people.

Why do some of you believe Beta? ?Is it because she is connected to GNR? ?She is hardly someone who would be objective. ?She would say anything she is told to say by management or Axl. ?Does the word "agenda" mean anything to you people?

They just showed the interview with Papa Roach from the CCCC. ?You want to get a clue as to who's to blame for this mess. ?Just look at that interview. ?They basically blame Axl for this. ?They apologized to their fans and went out of their way to let them know that they had nothing to do with this and that they should have expected shit like this to happen with a GNR tour. ?They didn't rant and rave about the city officials, they blamed GNR.

Some of you are so damn gullible. ?To believe Beta of all people who is the only one here with an agenda. ?SLC, I'm surprised that you beleive her. ?You are politically sauvy enough to know when an agenda is in play.

Wake up guys. ?Try to separate your love of GNR from reality. ?Axl is a great song writer/singer, but if you ask 1,000 random people what they think of him you'll get 890 "asshole" replies. ?That's his MO and you guys drink the coolaid every time.

I'm sorry, but past experiences have made most of the fans schizophrenic and paranoid when it comes to any statement made by the band.
Rarely anything is answered, and when it is answered, it's quite vague, and ambiguous.
A big factor is the constant anxiety because the album release date has not yet been set,
and there's less than 2 months till the end of the year, and people are starting to get jumpy, and are afraid that after this fall, the band might not release the album as previously announced, or even worse, go underground once again(as in 2003-05 period).
 

Also, many questions have been left unanswered in the past,
So fans tend not to believe the band as the band would want them to. (Example, the 2002 tour cancellation).
the fright that the band might cancel the shows is always present, especially if people are traveling to the venue from other town/country..., and shows starting hours behind schedule are not making fans eager, but exhausted, especially for those on the arena floor.

This is a small rant of mine.
Things I brought up might seem small individually, but together they are quite annoying, and I guess is the reason behind the lack of trust.

Man you people are sad!! Get over it. Bands have to cancel shows all the time. Why is it when its gnr its always Axl's fault??
Then Beta comes in here trying to help everyone understand and she gets bashed!!!! Beta is on the inside and is just trying to help out!!! Damn people!! Let it go and move on to the next show!
And Beta! Peace!
amyl

Because what she say sounds reasonable. Axl has also proven to be alot more flexibile with these kinds of situations than in the past. I don't think he would risk his comeback tour for some bullshit this time around. He just doesn't come off as that type of person anymore.

Still an asshole, by all means, but a slightly reasonable asshole :hihi:

[/b]

Thank you.

I agree with you there.  He seems more stable. 

Your welcome Jack. Sometimes you just have to speak up.
amyl

If it was 2002, I would not believe it.

This time things seem different and much more solid. So I am giving it the benefit of the doubt.

I usually give one "get out of jail free card" first anyways...........

Where is that damn kiss ass icon......

Well it is nice that we got some clarification from Beta, good to know that somebody cares.... Reading the post it makes some sense indeed....I mean why cancel a show when you already set up the stage?? I mean the cost was already produced, the band would not gain anything from it, in fact by cancelling the show they are financially even worse off, since they might have to refund tickets!
We should all hope the best and look forward for the rest of the tour... I mean it is bad for the people who had tickets but I survived 3 cancellations in the gunners world and this is the only time when somebody really cared to give an explanation!

Because she knows what hse is talking about and is too classy of a woman to come on here and make up all kinds of shit. So show her some respect.  :rant:

Honestly, if you are just going to keep posting negativity I don't even see why you are here. ?Obviously this is a different situation than 2002 which was left with no words. ?Now you get a press release and a personal response from Beta and it STILL is not enough for some. ?It is obvious that nothing the band is doing is going to make you happy and I can't see staying here if you are this unhappy. ?

REAL classy when every other word she drops the F-Bomb  :rofl:

only classy ladies drop the f-bomb  :P

You're so boring and predictable it's not even funny anymore...

LOL, I was thinking the same thing.

I love the "why are you here" line that creeps up when someone doesn't think the coolaid tastes good here.  I could set my clock to it.

Allow me to explain my existence here.  I'm here (and have been for 7 years) because I love GNR's music, I am anxious to hear the new material, and because this site has the best news section for GNR on the web.  I am not here because I think Axl is some great guy (he is not a great guy people).  I am not here to kiss Jarmo's ass (which many of you do with great effort).  I am not here to believe the words of someone with no credibility (referring to Axl not Beta here).  I am here to discuss GNR folks.  I used to love to post in the Jungle as well until the politcal threads were banned.  I'm here to discuss the good and the bad of GNR.  It may seem like I discuss the bad all too often.  That's because we already have a huge alotment of ass kissers here, so I feel compelled to provide a counter arguement on many occasions.  As much as you all hate to see negative posts, some of us here hate to see the blindness with which you swallow the coolaid.

I could ask a bunch of you why you are here if all you're gonna do is discuss the good and not the bad.  I mean what's the point of coming here and kissing Axl's, Beta's, Tommy's, Jarmo's collective asses all the time?  Without counter arguement or without some perspective, you wopuld all be just creaming all over yourselves with nut- huggingness.  This has never been more evident than when some of you read a press release and start bagging on Portland city officials.  Who do you think is more likely to have been the asshole to start a problem?  Axl and GNR management or some city official?  Why do you think Papa Roach blamed GNR and not Portland officials?

How's the coolaid?  Grape tonight?

You predicted I would say that?? Wow, you could be Axl's next psychic....? ?::)

I'll drop it so as to not offend you all anymore.

Maybe Papa Roach aren't really aware of the reasons why the gig was cancelled...  :hihi:

Well... anyhow. Yawn.

Charity Case, ?get over yourself and go do something else....seriously. This thread is beyond ridiculous at this point. You have valid arguments, but really...what are you proving? Nothing. Idiots are idiots, especially in Gnr's world.

Amen to that? :beer: best post in this whole thread

I'm done Madagas.  This is what happens when someone has too much time to kill on the internet and it rains all day.   :hihi:

I totally understand your sentiments. However, short and plain comments is not the way to go. I can't comment on your previous posts, but the one on this page is absolutely subject to critisism. If you want to counter the goody good people on this site, write something well thought out and constructive. They can't touch you on that. Believe me.

I think it's pretty simple...
The locals set a higher standard in security for GunsN'Roses and the managment took offense and also wouldn't have a show with said conditions
It's all a big conspiracy mr. case
-sebastian bach, merch, bumblefoot, jarmo and many board-members are a part of it too... :hihi:

They might kill me now for revealing this to you, but the truth is out there!!!

At things like this, an official statement is enough, I believe in it. If the band gives an explanation, it should be enough for all of us, come on people... The tour is going well.. why not to believe in their words.

Beta is right, about time to stop in this topic.
I have criticized the band when I feel so, I'm not ass kisser and in this situation I think enough is enough !

cut the crap
 :rant:

Whoever you are... DAMN!!! THAT WAS GREAT... Thats what the doctor ordered...
But the sad thing is, you can only suppress it for so long before it comes back... 

What about the guy who claimed the fire marshall had OKed this concert long ago?

I smell more bs coming from the GNR camp.

I think some people just need to move on and stop over analysing everything...shit happens...deal with it. 

The vast majority of the members of this board are so fickle. You've been complaining for 4 years about not getting a Press Release regarding the Philly show and the 2002 Tour in General. As soon as you get a PR regarding the Maine show, you begin complaining by saying it is a fluff piece... then a member of Axl's camp comes forward and explains in greater detail what happened and you attack her?

In two days you have gotten things we have waited a decade for... imediate response and direct contact from the inner circle and you piss on it.

I don't get it.

Your post sums it all up.

Some people need to just move on. Like Ive said before, by MSG we wont be talking about Portland anymore.

Yes, I was thinkin' the same, if they don't say anything about it people will bitch, if they do... well, people will bitch anyway.
 :drool:

Amen, brother.

this is bullshit. lame, axl, lame.  that's why the venues won't sell out- not because people wouldn't love to see the music, but because axl is so unreliable.  at some point people say to themselves, eh, why bother?  and i don't blame them.  axl is too high maintenance.  maybe he thinks it's ok to push his fans to the limit, but you know what, axl, most people can't be bothered.  what, so axl can't have pyro and he's going to throw a temper tantrum and not play.  i've accepted that everything in my life can't go the way i want, why can't axl?  it's time he learned that he needs to suck it up and that everything in life can't be the way he wants.  he seriously needs better advisors.  he needs someone to say, "axl, whatever they are asking you to do or not to do, just go out there and give those people a good show.  if you can't handle that, don't book a tour.  just stay home and be a big fucking baby."  he's not punishing the fire marshal by not playing, he's punishing the fans who want to go see him perform.  he should get on his knees and thank god there is anyone left to want to buy tickets to see him play.  next time they won't.  when was this cancelled, the VERY day of the show?  that's too late.  it's a terrible mind fuck for the fans. 

Don't forget the fire marshalls! They are in on it as well. Why else would they let their names be used unless they were paid ridiculous sums of money? Who else could be in on this conspiracy? Probably some of the complainers are plants. The more we focus on them and yell at them the less we can focus on the conspiracy. WAKE UP PEOPLE! My god, pull the wool from your eyes! This is a conspiracy just like 9/11 (South Park anyone?).

Oh, so you're not whinners... It's just that everything coming out of the GN'R camp is simply a lie...

And I kept on wondering why can't these people shut the fuck up...

If you trully believe that every PR we'll be getting from GN'R in the next months or years IS a lie, cause all I see here is some people who don't believe shit, then you should go and get your heads examined.

Doubting somebody is logical, but you've reached paranoia...

Check out your posts...


Your first post on this thread... Funny...


Second post.

Oh, we'll cry so hard if it doesn't live up to your expectations...


You're free to leave.




We do? I'm sorry, last time I checked you're just a poster on a board, not Axl's manager, not Axl's friend, not Axl's family.


Worth questioning? Ok, I'll accept that. You question the cancellation and the PR. Beta posts here, she explains what happened and you're talking about agendas.

So, it's not about questioning here, is it? You're reached a verdict. It's all Axl's fault. It doesn't matter who explains things to you, even if it's one of the closest people to Axl, you still don't care. It's all a lie, just cause you say so.


You? Negative? Come on... You're just questioning things... I mean, where in the world have you heard of authorities being on a power trip... Right?


Well, ofcourse, the bad ass-kissing forum and its model members and the rebel who had the guts to stand up to his beliefs...

You're not having a different view of the situation. You're having a negative view of the situation and noone can change it. That's what seeing things in a negative way means. Noone can change your opinion. You won't accept anything. Once you believe it's Axl's fault, no PR, not Beta, not anyone can convince you it's not like that...

And let's not forget Papa Roach... They're always right...


Cause they've been singled out? But no... That never happens. It's all Axl's fault.


So, what you're saying here, is that once the album comes out and it lives up to your expectations, and if the same shit happens again, it WILL be the official's fault? All Axl has to do is take some blame for it and you'll believe him? Not all of the blame...

And we were wondering what would make our special board member happy...

Check your pm's, the album's release date is in there.


Well ofcourse Beta, if Charity Case says so, Axl should do it... I mean, if he doesn't, then he doesn't care about his fans.  :hihi:


And why should I believe Papa Roach and not Beta? You choose to believe Papa Roach, I choose to believe Beta.

Maybe you should join a Papa Roach forum, since all the "legitimate" news about GN'R are coming from that camp...

But still a liar...


You can find it on various Papa Roach forums...



No it doesn't. We've just posted a PR from GN'R and you don't believe it.


We are allowed to have a different opinion, right? But, no, you've reached your verdict, after so many years of friendship. He's not a great guy, you ALWAYS know better than the rest of the ass-kissers on this board.


Yes, that's the reason I'm here, to kiss Jarmo's ass. I hate GN'R.



But ofcourse... Have you mentioned the size of his... you know... I mean you know so much about the guy...


In a very positive way... of anybody else BUT GN'R...



AHA, that's where I remember you from, my favorite political threads...




Naaaaaaaah... You? The bad?


THANK YOU SO MUCH... YOU'RE PROVIDING SUCH A GOOD SERVICE ON THIS BOARD...



Kiss Jarmo's ass... I think we've talked about that.


Cause it tastes good, don't it?


Cause Papa Roach ROCK man... They really rock. I mean, that's why they're the headliners. And the city officials, they're good people. Really. They're NEVER on a power trip...



Great.


Actually, I did predict that. And yes, Axl asked me, but I'd rather be Jarmo's psychic. You know, ass-kissing is a lot easier when you're close to the person and not from another country...

Offend me? You? I could be laughing for days with this comment...

All I see here is a bitter person, who can only whine and moan on the internet about a person he doesn't even know. But the press always tells the truth, right? Axl is an asshole...

If you're really Beta (sorry, I've just seen so many Axl etc. imitators around), I'd just like to say that it is great to see you here. I think we all really appreciate this kind of direct communication. Thank you for everything you've done for this band and hope to see you all on tour next year.

It really is Beta.

how the fuck do you know this is beta. Anyone can make a name Beta01 and say its therm!

Just lock this thread...seriously. It will never end. >:(

sigh.... if a mod is telling you that it is Beta genuinely - do you not think that he would know? for god's sake. Of course he would check this out before stating that. ?

What would make those who complain happy? Would going along with the show in question make you happy even though that the consequences would be so and so? Wouldnt you actually complain about THAT instead? If they had put on a half-assed show you would be all over it. There's no way GNR or any other will win you over because you will always find things to complain about. When Chinese Democracy eventually shows up you will start complaining about that too. Mark my words. I have no idea why you wanna base your interest about GNR on negativity. It's ok to be critical and suspicious but oh my god people, some of you are incredibly dumb.

There are always things to complain about....there's always ways and I suspect some of you really think Axl runs a conspiracy or something.

You guys are weird.

Uuuuuuuum... Cause I'm a global moderator on this forum and I know things.

I know things and I got skills.

That's how the FUCK I know this is beta.

Now, back the FUCK off and believe her when she posts...

I think it's interesting that the they decide not to play because they can't have their precious pyro technics...boo hoo :crying:  You're a fucking band, you play music...going to a concert is not about putting on this huge pyro show, it's about the band playing music...you do not need booze and pyro technic's to play music live...This goes to show that Axle, his management and promoter have no faith in Axle's musical talent...if they did, then the show would have gone on minus the pyro technics and the booze!  Of course they named names in the state fire marshal office...they want to deflect the attention to those people and not themselves because they KNOW that they still could have done the show if they really wanted to.

Hey Axle....why don't you go bite your own ASS!

I think you better re-read the statement posted.


It's spelled A-X-L, Einstein.

DCK...That's what I shoved down your moms throat last night!

Oh you won't last long here. Have fun at school tomorrow junior.

Judging by your first 2 posts are like that you won't be here for long.. Go read the rules if you wish to stay longer than a day.

Whhhaaa my heart is really broken now.  Enjoy your powertrip while it last.

hi eva! :D

There've been many reports about uncool securities, a smoking ban and other nuisances confronted fans at some venues.
this is from a NJ concert thread.


In talking about powertrip....Awful. Sorry to hear this.  :no:
This kind of harrassment / threats were anticipated, I guess.
more fans would have been treated this way at the portland venue.

This isn't really related but it reminded me of something that happend at the 3rd Hammerstein show.  I was right up front and everyone was trying to get pictures/video with their phones, and security was blocking and smacking people phones down.  This one guy was just in front of me and the security guard was getting pissed and finally grabbed the guy's phone from his hand.  Axl was right in front of us and saw the whole thing.  The guy looked up at Axl with an "Aren't you going to do something?" look and hoping Axl was gonna go all St. Louis on the security guard.  All Axl did was give this "You should have known better" smirk kinda laugh and shrug, then continued with the show.  It was pretty funny.  I'm pretty sure the guy got his phone back after the show.

Security has always been tough at GN'R concerts.

Just follow the rules. I know it's lame & conformist, but unless you want your $80 ticket to be washed down the drain, i'd comply.

Don't know what else to say...

 :beer:

God damn....when this thread gets new posts and goes toward the top, at first glance I thought TONIGHTS, show was canceled as well....what a load off.....haha

Guns N' Roses canceling a concert in Portland, Maine Monday, after being told they could not drink on stage. A spokesman for the Maine Public Safety Department stating the band had wanted to drink beer, wine and Jagermeister while performing but were informed it would violate state law. Apparently, GNR doesn't have even a little patience for teetotaling.

I'll say it again...AXL is fukin' loser!  I will never support Axl or GNR after this bullshit. 

I think it was the drinking amoung other things. I think the firemarshall was being a total dick to them, and threatening to arrest fans for smoking/drinking...get you facts straight first, dont just listen to what the press tell's you.

How do you know how the fans at Portland would have been treated? Do you live in this area?

There has NEVER been a problem before at any concert or games at the CCCC by security or police.

Yeah, and GN'R played how many shows at how many places this year without any problems at all?

hey, here's a letter i sent to various news outlets including the associated press in defense of gnr, hopefully it won't piss anyone around here off!

Guns N? Roses: Setting the Record Straight
To Whom It May Concern:
   Upon Guns N? Roses? cancellation of a show in Portland, Maine Monday night, various TV news outlets and online news websites began reporting the cause as being ?low ticket sales? and accusing the band of trying to combine the audience with Wednesday?s crowd at the DCU center in Worcester, Massachusetts, where tickets from the Portland show would be honored. One newscast alleged that Rose ?didn?t even show up in Portland.? This was done without regard to the press release from the band?s management explaining restrictions by fire marshals as the cause for the cancellation. 
   Approximately two hours after the announcement from the Cumberland County Civic Center that the show had been canceled by the band, Guns N? Roses? management issued a statement on the band?s website, specifically naming local fire marshals Nelson Collins and Bob Cadigan.  ?We have been informed that officials intend to enforce rules and regulations that should not and do not apply in this venue. Our production manager and crew have been in this building with Clay Aiken and Green Day and none of the restrictions imposed on Guns N' Roses were experienced by those artists. It is our opinion that they are going out of their way to target and single out Guns N' Roses and the band's loyal fans. Following consultation with the band's manager, agent and promoter, it was felt that it was best to cancel the show. It is a regrettable decision, particularly at this late notice, but it is of paramount importance that our fans have the best experience possible without being harassed and threatened.? 
   Over the course of the next day, there was an overwhelming number of negative posts criticizing the band and management and accusing them of lying on the popular Guns N? Roses message board on the website ?Here today? Gone to Hell!.?  This website is known to be monitored by the band, and has more than one source close to the band who post messages on it, including Axl?s longtime assistant Beta Lebeis, who responded: ?The fire marshals and the building made it impossible for GN?R to play. Every time we agreed with something they found something else and that went on for almost 3 hours. Our crew was threatened every 10 minutes that if they would light one cigarette they would get a $1000 fine. If any of the fans coming to the show and would be caught smoking they would get a $1000 fine. If anyone would look intoxicated they would be arrested. If any band member would look intoxicated they would be arrested; if they felt that the pyro would cause any danger, they would stop the show and the list goes on. This incident has nothing to do with anybody in Axl?s camp. Promoters, our team and management came to the conclusion that canceling was the right thing to do. Axl and band were not part of their decision at all, so please stop jumping to conclusions. Is it better for the tour to continue or have them arrested and maybe a cancelled tour? It was one show and lets blame the right people. [Axl] was going to do the show and got a call from management saying that the show was cancelled.?  (This was also confirmed by the band?s guitarist Ron ?Bumblefoot? Thal in both another online message board post as well as in person after the Worcester show.  While Thal signed autographs, a hurt fan confronted him about the cancellation.  Thal?s mood sobered instantly as he explained: ?They were going to arrest you guys.?) 
   This post was widely ignored and discounted, so for the first time, GN?R manager Merk Mercuriadis and Axl Rose himself posted a message directly on the board, ?They made it clear that they intended to harrass our fans, crew and the band through enforcing rules and regulations that are 200 years old to an extent that has not been applied to other artists and that we believed would make the gig a potential time bomb that would explode. Our Production Manager Chris Gratton is a seasoned pro who has worked with everyone from Korn to R. Kelly and has terrific relationships with Fire Marshals and authorities all over the world. This is the first time he has ever come to us and said this is a dangerous situation and these people intend to use their authority in a negative way against our fans, our band and our crew and I need you to do something about it?We take our responsibility to the band seriously and we take our responsibility to the fans seriously. Now if you want to vent your spleens about this do it to the people responsible i.e. the fire marshals. We named them for a reason. They are the reason why the Cumberland County Civic Center did not rock last night.?
   Following this, an AP article surfaced Friday further condemning the band as canceling because ?they couldn?t drink booze onstage.?  This article, which appeared on over 150 news websites and in countless newspapers nationally, even went so far as to use quotes from the portion of the second statement given directly from Rose (which had been reprinted on the band?s official website and included a personal apology to the fans), completely out of context, to make it appear as if he admitted and acknowledged indirectly the alcohol ban as the reason for the cancellation. ?I agree with and ultimately take responsibility for the end decision not to jeopardise the safety of the fans, the crews, the bands and myself as a result of the methods of these particularly draconian authorities.?
   Now, although I am a longtime fan of the band, I have never been one to blindy jump to Axl?s defense when negative stories surfaced about him or the band, and I never really understood it when he claimed to have been ?victimized? by the press.   However, in this instance, I finally see what he means.  These stories all have a common thread:  They pick and choose their facts, and insert blind speculation and assumption, to paint a picture of Axl Rose as the media usually does:  A zany, eccentric, arrogant alcoholic who doesn?t care about his fans.  The original stories made the assumptions about ticket sales, without acknowledging that it cost the band quite a bit of money to cancel the show.  Nor did it occur to them to note that the band would have been aware of the amount of tickets sold well in advance of the show and would have no reason to cancel on such short notice and generate negative publicity.  According to the second statement from Mercuriadis, ?Most bands do not go to Portland, Maine because it is what the music business calls a "soft market" but we had a lot of letters from fans in the area and we were determined to play there regardless of whether it was ?only? 3500 people.?   
   The AP article was even worse; it quoted a Maine fire official in a positive light, and twisted Axl?s words in such a way to make it seem that he may have considered being unable to drink on stage a significant safety risk for everyone involved in the concert, as it gave absolutely no explaination of the band?s side of the story: ?After the cancellation, a band spokesperson blamed fire marshals for ?making it impossible for the band to perform their show to the usual high standards that their fans deserve..?  The press release, however, did not give a specific reason for the pullout.? ?But they are obviously insinuating it had something to do with alcohol.
   I am not a band insider, or a journalist.  But it makes me angry as a fan to see this.  It hurts a band that a lot of people  have stuck with, despite all the negativity and lies that seem to follow them for some reason; a band on the verge of a new era.  Aside from that, its just shoddy journalism.  Stories that don?t even attempt to present the truth or get both sides.  Why did they not include this part of Rose?s message?  ?Thanks for even trying to see us. It sincerely is much more than appreciated.?  The answer is that it does not fit the image of Axl Rose that they have created.  And it makes the story less ?juicy.?  I know I am not alone when I say the Associated Press has lost my respect and lost credibility with me.  Its one thing for one individual writing for one local news outlet to spread disinformation and damaging lies, but it crosses a line when its done by a major respected news organization and spread via the internet and in print to nearly every corner of the earth.
            Sincerely,
               C. Vines

I think that was a pretty cool effort on your part, C.Vines.
Did you get any responses/ replies?

FYI, the penalty for a first violation of smoking in a public place in Maine is up to $100, not sure how the "pattern of conduct" is interpreted., but if a fan was fined $1000 for a first offence with no prior knowledge of the rule I would be surprised if it was upheld.

http://www.mainelung.org/learn_with_us/advocacy/laws_brochure.htm

Its a week later, but for what its worth, note the following Maine Statute

?17. Enforcement of civil violations
 
? ? ? 1. A law enforcement officer who has probable cause to believe that a civil violation has been committed by a person must issue or have delivered a written summons to that person directing the person to appear in the District Court to answer the allegation that the person has committed the violation. The summons must include the signature of the officer, a brief description of the alleged violation, the time and place of the alleged violation and the time, place and date the person is to appear in court. The form used must be the Violation Summons and Complaint, as prescribed in Title 29-A, section 2601, for traffic infractions and the Uniform Summons and Complaint for other civil violations. A person to whom a summons is issued or delivered must give a written promise to appear. If the person refuses to sign the summons after having been ordered to do so by a law enforcement officer, the person commits a Class E crime. The law enforcement officer may not order a person to sign the summons for a civil violation unless the civil violation is an offense defined in Title 12; Title 23, section 1980; Title 28-A, section 2052; or Title 29-A.

 
? ? ? 2. Any person to whom a law enforcement officer is authorized to issue or deliver a summons pursuant to subsection 1 who intentionally fails or refuses to provide the officer reasonably credible evidence of the person's correct name, address or date of birth commits a Class E crime, if the person persists in that failure or refusal after having been informed by the officer of the provisions of this subsection. If the person furnishes the officer evidence of that person's correct name, address and date of birth and the evidence does not appear to be reasonably credible, the officer shall attempt to verify the evidence as quickly as is reasonably possible. During the period that verification is being attempted, the officer may require the person to remain in the officer's presence for a period not to exceed 2 hours. During this period, if the officer reasonably believes that the officer's safety or the safety of others present requires, the officer may search for any dangerous weapon by an external patting of the person's outer clothing. If in the course of the search the officer feels an object that the officer reasonably believes to be a dangerous weapon, the officer may take such action as is necessary to examine the object, but may take permanent possession of the object only if it is subject to forfeiture. The requirement that the person remain in the presence of the officer does not constitute an arrest.

After informing the person of the provisions of this subsection, the officer may arrest the person either if the person intentionally refuses to furnish any evidence of that person's correct name, address or date of birth or if, after attempting to verify the evidence as provided for in this subsection, the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has intentionally failed to provide reasonably credible evidence of the person's correct name, address or date of birth.
[2003, c. 657, ?4 (amd).]
 
? ?? 3. If, at any time subsequent to an arrest made pursuant to subsection 2, it appears that the evidence of the person's correct name, address and date of birth was accurate, the person must be released from custody and any record of that custody must show that the person was released for that reason. If, upon trial for violating subsection 2, a person is acquitted on the ground that the evidence of the person's correct name, address and date of birth was accurate, the record of acquittal must show that that was the ground.[2003, c. 657, ?4 (amd).]
 
? ? ? 4. Any person who fails to appear in court as directed by a summons served on that person pursuant to subsection 1 or to otherwise respond in accordance with law on or before the date specified in the summons commits a Class E crime. Upon that person's failure to appear or respond, the court may issue a warrant of arrest. It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this subsection that the failure to appear or respond resulted from just cause.[1991, c. 459, ?5 (amd).]
 


So fans fined would have been removed from the show - and not necessarily without force or being searched
Its not like they would have appoached the fan wherever they were and stood there in the dark taking id's and writing tickets as the fan was allowed to remain in their place...? ? the fans would have been pulled out of the crowd... one after the other..? ?for smoking , for public drunkedness, for standing, for who knows what?? for profanity?!? any civil offiense etc.

and the officer could detain them for up to 2 hours to verify the identity!?
and what if they didn't have ID?? The statue says the officer is within his rights to arrest them!

(see the account ppbebe posted about a fans being removed from the NJ crowd)

this is was the threat to the safety of the fans
GN'R did not want to risk this
for this they should be applauded

Further... for those who can't fathom why such enforcement might be threatened.? Perhaps the officials became aware that management was willing to absorb any fines imposed for playing too late, or drinking in the building, or smoking in the building or whatever... so they advised *cough*threatened*cough* of other consequences they could impose.

Sounds exactly like what Nelson Collins told Eat My Silkworms in their exclusive interview.  Wow!  What a major scoop!  CNN, Fox, MSNBC, Yahoo and the AP all picked it up a few days later!

And how could the Portland people know things that were averted? 
Did the poster I quoted go to the NJ show knowing he was going to be kicked out by cops just for standing, beforehand the show?


Can you not at least read the topic and the post you're replying to?
anyways, More proof that the management was on the right track :yes:

far from that. telling letter. : ok:
Your forceful writing proves that GNR fans are not a bunch of rowdies or illiterates. I'm proud of you!
Those shoddy-ass journalists should be ashamed of themselves, if they still had an ounce of pride. At least they should learn they can't just fuck the readers. We are watching.

And I find this article, which is not so sloppy.

GNR Under The Gun
Updated 02:55 PST Tue, Nov 14 2006

Guns N' Roses has been the subject of some intense media scrutiny following a recent concert cancellation in Portland, Maine.
 The band's November 6 gig at the Cumberland County Civic Center was canceled hours before the show was to take place. Almost immediately, fan and gossip sites were awash with theories as to why GNR backed out, including poor ticket sales and the band not being allowed to drink on stage.
 Steve Crane, GM of the Civic Center, said it was up to the band to explain the reasons for the cancellation.
 "We were set up. We were ready to go. The stage was all set. All the technical and logistical requirements that we were asked to fulfill as an arena were fulfilled." Crane told Pollstar. "I just received word from the band and the promoter that the show was canceled and they issued a press release."
 That press release, and various statements posted on numerous fan sites, revved up the rumor mill. Some blamed ticket sales, some blamed clashes with fire marshals over the band's setup and pyrotechnics, and still others blamed the cancellation on an old state law that prohibits performers from drinking on stage.
 A representative for the Maine Department of Public Safety said in a statement November 9 that the band was informed by fire marshal inspectors during a pre-show pyrotechnics test that it could not drink on stage, and the show was consequently canceled a few hours later.
 "The band had wanted to drink beer, wine and Jagermeister while performing," according to the statement.
 But representatives for the band said it wasn't all that simple.
 "Axl doesn't drink on stage," said production manager Chris Gratton.
 GNR manager Merck Mercuriadis told Pollstar that during the setup, he was informed by Gratton that the fire marshals were intent on harassing not only the band, but the audience as well.
"They made it clear they were going to harass the fans and that they were going to give $1,000 citations to every fan that was smoking cigarettes during the performance, that if anyone was caught drinking that they would be arrested on the spot," Mercuriadis said. "That they were going to basically do everything that they possibly could do to make sure that this Guns N' Roses performance was as compromised as possible.
 "At the end of the day, this is a band that has had issues in the past, and we're very, very careful not to put the band or put Axl in the situation where there's going to be a problem."
 But Mercuriadis denied that the real problem had anything to do with ticket sales nor the band's mercurial frontman, who's had his share of last-minute no-shows in years past.
 "Ticket sales didn't come into it at all. We gave up $200,000 to do what we thought was the right thing here," he said. "We went into Portland, Maine, knowing that it was a soft market, knowing that whether it was 3,500 people or whether it was 5,000 people that was what it was likely to be. And we would have played for those kids. You know, 3,500  kids are important to us." Fans were given the option to use tickets at a Worcester, Mass., concert two days later or receive refunds at point of purchase.

Dana Parker-McClain / Pollstar
http://www.pollstar.com/news/viewnews.pl?NewsID=7440

Good job creepingvines...? ? : ok:

I'd like to see this circulated.? ?;)

If you believe Axl and Merck's take on the story, then you'd have to believe that those two fire marshall's had something personally against Axl, his band and their loyal fans.  Do you really think that's the case?  If you do, you're just as paranoid as Axl.

All one needs recognize is that that figure(s) in authority feeling said authority challenged will resort to whatever means available to them to assert said authority.

Also helpful in regarding the AP release is consideration of the relationship that the local Maine AP writers wish to maintain with local and state officials. ;)

Dude, WTF is your deal. 2 days ago you were jammin your nose up Axl's ass. I could pull up some quotes, but i'm sure you know what i'm talking about.

Looks like someone/something gave you dose of reality. congrats! :D

What was the point of bumping this thread?

The last post in this thread before I 'bumped it' cited that following penalty for smoking in a public place:


So I replied to cite how officers issuing the summons for the violation could/would have created an unsafe environment for the fans in attendance.?

Also ppbebe wanted to share an article that was published by Pollstar on the 14th....? and this was the appropriate thread to post it in.

And if I receive any replies from the correspondence i sent to Foxnews, USAToday, CNN, or The Associated Press, I will be bumping again to share it with the board.