Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I was just wonderin how much the both of them are worth. i know that suicide is being sold for 150euro. Is that good? The appetite has the tatoo on the cover but i dont think that its the japenese one and not sure if the stickers are with it either. Write back ASAP!!!  : ok:

i would just check ebay.. what ever they sell for is what the fair market value is.  Ebay has really eliminated the need for any sort of price guide ect.. haha..

Up to 150 ? for LLAS (more than that is a joke)

About 35 ? for Appetite.

That would be my advice.

If LLAS was sealed, I would gladly pony up more than 150 euros.  Of course, I'd check the person's feedback, return policy, etc.

No, no. Its being sold in a shop for 150. i checked ebay and they it is about 9.99 with bout 2 days left but i am suspicous about it. There is only a one angled pic of it and it could be the back of lies!!! The appetite is being sold for 20 euro. Is it worth gettin. I think it is!!

I paid ? 15,- for my copy of Appetite

Any "sealed" copy of LLAS is likely to be a "resealed" one these days. Very few to no really sealed ones, I'm afraid. And resealing vinyls is the easiest thing in the world.

Hence the whole feedback/return policy sentence.  : ok:

That's supposing you can prove it was resealed. Dangerous game, if you ask me.

I agree 100%. If you buy something sealed with a view to keeping it sealed, how would you know you don't have a LLAS cover with the vinyl of Britney Spears greatest Hits inside.... :hihi:    God forbid that of course.

Very true. :)

I know we've been over this before, but in my opinion LLAS is worthless. Everyone and their grandma has it, but only 10 thousand copies were made.

Either Axl spent the last 13 years shipping out a bunch more copies, or most of them are well done fakes.

The math just doesn't add up.

As I've stated in another thread, for many years it was almost mission impossible trying to get one, and then in the mid 90's you could buy one at almost any record store. I think this is when the fakes were made.

Not sure how we could prove this(probably cant), other than doing a "test" on another album as rare....

Go try and track down Metallica's original Garage Days EP(or am I thinking of no life til leather or whatever it was called)? There was the same amount of copies of this rare album made as LLAS, yet the market isn't flooded with it. This same test could be done on any other rare albums you can think of. You will NEVER find as many copies of a rare album as you will of LLAS.

Why do you have such a problem accepting that lots of people own LLAS?? I think a previous thread summed this up.? Think about it, you never saw them for sale years ago because the internet and ebay didn't exist previously.? So you would have had to be extremely lucky to find one for sale in a local record store.? But the net makes the world a whole lot smaller, that's why there are so many you see for sale.?

Once upon a time if you owned a LLAS and wanted to sell it where was your market?? You could put an add in the local paper or sell it to a local record store.? If you did that how many people do you think then saw it for sale.? If I wanna sell one today I can list it on ebay - then just about everyone in the world can see my auction.

Here's a good example.? The GNR pinball machines.? There were only 3,000 of these made, yet you regularly see these for sale on ebay.? Using your logic how is that possible, since there were only 3,000 made - are they fakes??

My GNR pinball machine seems pretty real to me when I play it, just like my LLAS!!!

I admit there are people that photograph the back of Lies and then try and pass it off as a LLAS but they are easy to spot because of the barcode in the top right hand corner.

Here is another interesting fact.? I happen to own 3 copies of LLAS.? 2 of my copies are still sealed.? I bought the sealed copies directly from Alan Niven about 12 months ago.? On one of the covers he signed it and wrote - there were only 25,000 copies of this pressed.

Well I had always thought that there were only 10,000 copies pressed, since you always heard that number thrown around.? But according to Alan Niven there were 25,000 pressed.? I tend to believe him since he did mix the record after all.

So combine this fact, with sales over the internet, I think it easily accounts for the number you see for sale.? Even if there was only 10,000 made I think it is still feasable.

Do you own a LLAS?? If not it sounds to me like you are just jealous and wanna put everone else down that has one and try and tell them it's probably a fake, simply because you don't own one yourself.? Personally I don't think it's the Holy Grail of GNR collectibles, but is still a must have for any serious collector.

I dont care if you own 20 copies. In fact, by em all. It would just be a step closer to proving my point. The thing that should make this album rare is the fact that all original copies cant possibly exist. You think every one of those copies is in mint condition 20 yrs later? Of course not.

Your 'internet age' theory doesn't hold up when putting other rare albums to this same test.

A pinball machine isnt the same damn thing as a record and you know it.

I used to have LLAS. Sold it for drugs many moons ago. Could buy it at any time if I wanted to, but why? Its a dime a dozen in my book.

Of course its not the holy grail. I never said it was.

Just because you own 3 copies doesnt mean its legit. I dont care if Jesus Christ signed it.

Go buy 3-5 copies of Metallica's "holy grail", then call me.

The fact he signed it is irrelevant, but who he is, is relevant as far as authenticity is concerned.  Alan is the guy that mixed the record he was also the bands manager until about 1990 or '91.  He retained a few copies of it for himself up until recently.  That's how I know my copies are legit.

But regardless of my copies, I agree with what you say that LLAS is a dime a dozen.  That's why I tend to think that 25,000 may be the real number for how many were pressed.

Even so, just because you see a lot for sale still doesn't prove they are fake.  I also don't think that all of the copies that were produced are still in mint condition or even still in existance.  I have seen some pretty beat up copies for sale.  Copies that the seller will try and convince you are "near mint" when they are clearly not.  So many of them I am sure have aged poorly but still get onsold.

Can't comment about the Garage Days EP, I have never really watched out for it to see how often it comes up for sale.  I knew it was rare but have no idea of the number that were produced etc.  Maybe there are more Metallica vinyl collectors than GNR?? That's why I used the pinball machine as an example, I know there were only 3,000 of those that were made and I can only assume that not all of those have survived either, yet you regularly see those for sale on ebay, plus the Mr Pinball Classifeds and other places.  So here is any example of something that was only produced in a very limited amount but is still seen for sale quite regularly.  It can happen!






 

I have posted this several times, I KNOW 100% there are copies and have seen the difference.  The copy vinyl is heavier and more matt coloured black. I believe they were pressed in Russia where they bought all the pressing equipment when CD's took over popularity.

I would love to see some photos of a fake one. (I actually wouldn't mind owning one either if it's tru- lol)

So the actual vinyl itself is heavier? 

What's more of a matt black - the vinyl or the black on the sleeve?

The vinyl is heavier. The colour of the vinyl is also a 'matt' black which is darker than the original.

The sleeve looked 100% identical with the only exception being in absolute mint condition when the likelyhood of finding an 'original' LLAS in mint condition being somewhat harder to find. The material used on the sleeve was also the same micron.

How do I know, 1) A dealer at a record fare showed me the difference. The trade had been on the look-out for people selling fakes.

2) I previously worked in a large facility which produced CD's and Vinyl for the major record labels, and whilst they were a 100% legit company, it would be have been so easy to produce fake copies of ANY album that would look to the un-trained eye original.

Interesting - I want one now for my collection!  ;)

I still don't think that the amount that you see up for sale on ebay is an extraordinary number though.  If there were like only 500 or 1,000 copies made then I would say yes, but the number for sale seems to fit with the number made and what would survive today IMHO. - maybe throwing in the odd Russian one to boost the numbers, but I still don't think these ones would make up the majority of the ones you see for sale.

I agree with you, but would ask the legitimacy of someone knowing the number of copies pressed who was just the person involved in mixing the album and would have no involvment in the pressing of LLAS. Granted he would have been given some curtosy copies, afterall, for every order there are 'make-ready' copies and other overs to ensure that there is no spoilage in the packing/labelling process.

Every piece I have ever read on the LLAS subject leads to only 10,000 copies being pressed.

The concern would be why you can find so many copies for sale in Asia where to the best of my knowledge the record wasn't even released, more so they are normally sold in 'mint' condidtion and in some cases still shrink-wrapped.

If someone has access to Ebay Japan and can speak the language ascertain how many copies are for sale?

Yeah I had always heard 10,000 copies were made too, so I was kinda surprised when he mentioned 25,000.  I will have to ask him when I next speak to him.

I didn't know there was a heap for sale in Asia?  Will have to have a look, but yeah I can't see why they would have a heap to sell.

Thanks meanmachine for the info. :beer: I knew there were fakes of this album in existence. Like I have said several times, the numbers dont add up with how many copies would be in existence.

Bailey, your pinball analogy isn't a good one. Most GNR fans dont have multiple pinball machines in their house.

If you're talking about the original Garage days EP, there are several copies for sale on ebay right now, and they're not that expensive. And "No life til leather" is not comparable to LLAS. I believe it was their very first demo recording, and the number of copies is extremely limited.


Ebay Japan doesn't exist. There is Yahoo Japan Auctions, though, and there isn't a single copy of LLAS on it right now.

Thanks for that info on Ebay Japan. I am sure people realise where I am coming from in being sceptical of so many copies of LLAS coming out of Asia for sale. (Ok, there are none right now on Ebay, but in the last weeks/months there have been several.)

Pandora, I was wondering when you were gonna jump my ass in this thread. :P :-*

I am not a hardcore Metallica collector, and havent immersed myself in their community, but I think the amount of copies for no life til leather is about the same as LLAS. I could be wrong though. Are you sure its the original Garage Days? They have re-released that several times. I'll try and dig up some info on this later this evening.

But we already have proof here besides my logical speculation that fakes are in existence. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to reach that conclusion. The only other explanation would be that 90% of fans are lying about owning it, and by some miracle from God whatever copies of LLAS that survived the 20 years keep staying in the revolving door of Ebay.

I'm not claiming every copy is a fake. Just a certain percentage. :peace:

Still paranoid about me, uh James?  :hihi:

I'm not a hardcore Metallica collector either, but I would venture to say more copies of Garage days were pressed than LLAS. Not 100% sure, though.
And No life til leather....well, it was a demo tape. Even though it was widely circulated in the underground scene at the time (which could mean anything), I can't picture a demo tape being pressed at 10.000 copies.....

[Bailey, your pinball analogy isn't a good one. Most GNR fans dont have multiple pinball machines in their house.

For what it's worth I did happen to own 2 GNR pinball machines for a few months at one time.  I picked up a second one really cheap in better condition than my first, so I bought it then eventually sold my other one off.  Maybe some people do this with LLAS too??

Well, I used to collect Metallica and I can tell you that I have never seen a real/fake/copy of No Life Til Leather in any record store, record trade show, Goldmine magazine or ebay, hence DEFINITELY less than LLAS.  Many, many, many fakes/bootlegs out there.  As for Garage Days, first you have the term "garage days" which simply referred to a time in every band's history when they were first starting out playing/practicing in garages or similar locales.  Metallica released the Creeping Death sinigle with b-sides Am I Evil and Blitzkrieg.  These two b-sides are collectively referred to as Garage Days Revisited but were never released as such.  The thing that you see on ebay is Garage Days Re-revisited which was released officially in record stores across the country(and other countries)  on cd, cassette, and vinyl.  Though I am not sure exactly how many were made, the previous mentioned fact alone tells me that there were more of this than LLAS and I ASSURE YOU, more fakes as well (one of the reasons I no longer collect Metallica plus I was priced out of that market). 

Interesting info, thanks. Any idea on how many copies were made at the time?

Yeah I have my copy of LLAS and it's in decent condition but not what you would call mint. The corner of the sleeve is a little creased and it's rough around the edges but I expect it to look like that after being around 20 years. Th sealed ones definitley do raise a question though, whther they are fake or resealed. I've never seen a record that came out 20 years ago that still has plastic shrink wrap on it have its wrap in perfect condition. The shrink wrap will begin to sag or wrinkle and even rip.
Oh, and I have a copy of it on cassette as well.

I have tried to find out - searching the net in vain.  For the best sites for collecting Metallica look here: http://www.angelfire.com/rock2/MetallicaArchives/metallica.html
http://www.encycmet.com/

Hope this helps

Garage Days revisited (not to be confused with re-revisited) has been sought after since the late 80's and is highly collectible ...as far as No Life Til Leather I have never seen anything but bootlegs, varying in their quality.?

LLAS was a 12" Maxi single and I too always thought there were only 10.000 in existence.? ?A real LLAS in mint condition usually brings around 350.00 U.S. dollars currently.? If you are ok with a used one the normal price is around 150.00 in USD.? If I remember correctly one of the things to look for in attempting to verify that a copy is legit or not is the number sequence on the "blank" part of the album at the end of the tracks.? I may be wrong on this (my copy has been misplaced during moving) but if there is interest by any of you I will try to track down that information when I have the time.? You will also find the fakes to have the album cover a little darker or lighter than that of the original.? Generally it tends to be darker.

I have been a collector for several years and I can tell you from experience to be VERY wary of Ebay.? For every legitimate "rare" purchase I have made, I have had an equal number of fakes ranging from very amateurish to quite elaborate.? I think this is what Jameslofton is referring too when he says LLAS is worthless.? The ones being sold on ebay mostly are.? Most of the ones you can readily find are worthless.

Thanks. So basically even the biggest collectors don't have it. That's impressive. There must be only a handful of those out there.....