Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Not to beat a dead horse, I know people have been bitching about whether it'll be out for real or not this year. I've been totally stoked and when people said the album wasn't coming this year, there was always the successful tour to fall back on. People said it's another 2002, but there was always the fact that, hey, they aren't canceling... But now after only eight shows they are. Knowing Axl's behavior, I doubt it has to do with pyro limitations. Someone on another website claims Axl was pissed that there weren't enough tickets sold, and as a result refused to play for a minimal crowd.

I think he only has himself to blame - he maybe felt a surge of confidence because of strong overseas ticket sales, but that's Europe. He should have learned from 2002 that America is different and he can't rely upon the name alone to tour. They need an album to promote or mainstream America won't be turning out like the Europeans did.

My concern is that, as an employee at a music store, I know it's impossible for an album to drop and not give stores a month's notice at least. ESPECIALLY around Christmas. At our store we have a music catalog system which is universal and is updated months in advance of when an album is going to be released. For example, we have all new releases listed up through early 2007, and those that are undetermined have a listed release date of "2025," but this means they are confirmed as upcoming  releases without a solid date. CD doesn't even have a 2025 release date, which means it hasn't even been verified as an upcoming release. One would imagine if they want to keep the exact date a surprise, Merck still would have at least confirmed the album 100% for release this year. The fact that it's not even listed at all is hardly reassuring.

The thing is, you can't drop an album with a week's notice. The reason we have album releases dates up through Feb 07 is because stores require advance notice. Shelving and promotions are scheduled. You can't announce an album a week in advance - there will be no room for the album in stores and it will get shelved somewhere where it isn't even visible. And the new releases won't be shelved under Guns N' Roses because you can't fit more than a few albums under an artist header card - stores don't devote an entire wall just to GN'R. So they're going to get stuck with three copies of Chinese Democracy under the GN'R section and the rest will be in overstock.

Everything was going great, but first the thing with the website happened. They promised video, it wasn't delivered, and then they just completely removed it. And there haven't been any significant updates in weeks, save one, which was swiftly deleted for no explanatory reason. It doesn't look too good when the official website fails to deliver promised material, the band cancels a show for curious reasons, and - as trollish as this sounds - they honestly aren't selling out tickets as expected. There's no album confirmed yet and we're nearing the middle of the month already. We have a month and a half left before the end of the year, and if they're going to release it this year it's almost guaranteed that they would do so before Christmas, which really just gives us mid-November through early-December. If this is happening stores will have to receive notice I'd say within the next week - or else stores will refuse to carry stock, and those that do agree to last-minute stock will have no room for the album and multiple copies will be shoved into overstock.

I just thought I'd add a different perspective to this. I want you all to know every day at work I search our catalog database for Chinese Democracy. It's not just connected to our store, it's basically a universal database powered by AllMusicGuide, so it's completely up-to-date. We don't have GN'R scheduled on any print-out sheets for the end-of-the-year promotion - other albums are already reserved spots on the floor and New Release shelves.

I always search for CD in the hopes that, one day, it will be listed. But as every day passes, from a realistic standpoint it becomes less...well...realistic.

that what I think and that is why CD will not be released this year, it is just not possible. let's be realistic..

I'll give you all another quick example. I'm a big fan of Tom Waits. His album is coming out November 21st in the US (rumored release date for CD).

We've had it listed for preorder with full details, cover art and technical credits for the past two months or so in our system. It leaked onto the Internet a week ago, has been listed on Amazon.com for months and there are full details on it there, also. Waits already released full previews for the album AND three tracks were officially released last month as samples.

We have it scheduled to be shelved under the Waits section in our store and to have numerous copies filed on the New Releases display.

CD hasn't even been confirmed yet. If it's out ANY time in November (21st or not), how are we supposed to - as a store - make room for it last minute?

We'd have to re-do the New Releases, move everything around, create new floor plans in relation to the albums, update our database, update our ordering system, update our scanners which tell us where the albums are located in the store, etc., etc., etc.

I'm sorry, but as each day passes it's becoming more fantasy.

I hope to God it's out this year, I really do. But I'm becoming doubtful for the first time in many years.

Last week i was getting tattooed and my tatooist best mate came in, he owns the local independant record store where i live. so i though this was my chance to get some info on releases. he said they get stuff turn up out of the blue. they can get a box of cd's with a press release attched stating day for the cd to be sold. it's not unknown for products to turn up on a friday afternoon that are to be released the following monday.
maybe it works differntly for you hmv's /virgins etc but why should they get more info than any other store selling cd.
just what i got from this guy anyway....


 :peace:

Yep, you're presenting a very realistic situation. Thanks for doing so. The media backlash, even if it comes out in 2007, will be insane. Seriously, they already hate Axl in the first place. I'm sure a lot of diehards would never forgive/trust him again either, even if it comes out in '07. He's said numerous times this year that '06 is the year and Merck has confirmed it a couple of times as well lately. Their credibility is already in the dumps with the public, and it will be essentially ZERO if this album does not come out this year (even if it's the last Tuesday of the year they'll still be keeping their promise).

Hmm, all I can offer is that perhaps if he runs an independent record store he is not as corporate and therefore can individually make room for albums. If he gets in a shipment he can do whatever because he's his own boss. Furthermore, if he's getting in non-mainstream records - e.g. self-produced albums by artists, or regional albums from local bands - it's not uncommon for stuff like that. We get in unexpected shipments, too, sometimes; but when you have a NEW RELEASE you still have to have that album in your store's system or there will be nowhere for it to go. If CD is in the store's system they can get a random shipment on Friday morning for it to be shelved Monday, but if it's not listed in the system THEN there's a problem.

Also, if this guy literally means he just gets new releases in randomly with little notice, it may BE because it's an independent store and they are not a priority. In the mainstream it doesn't work like that. The major sources for albums - Amazon, HMV, Virgin Megastore, Borders, Barnes & Noble, iTunes, etc. - are given releases well in advance.

This canceled show is going to hurt them more than they might think, NOT because it's necessarily a disgrace (although I think they could have sacrified their pyro for one evening for the sake of the many fans who had purchased tickets), but because - and I'm wondering at this point whether Axl/Merck understand this - every time you cancel a show, or fail to deliver a promise (such as website material or an album), you are lowering people's confidence.

When the Euro tour started I had no reason to doubt them. It was a clean slate in my mind, and they didn't get into anything except for the whole arrest incident - and even then, they sacrified Axl's ego (he apologized) in order to meet their agenda. When Axl was sick he played a full set and only left at the last song. That was all well and good and helped rebuild a lot of faith in the band which had been crippled by 2002 cancellations.

But now this. It's not a matter of whether we should consider it terrible or not - it's a matter of realizing that to the outside world it's going to be misconstrued as another GN'R let-down, and a lot of people are going to instinctively lower their faith in the band's promise that the album will be released this year.

A single being dropped right now would help immensely.

Right now, I'm just fearing the critical backlash that Axl and co. are going to receive for tonight's canceled show. It's going to be a playground for the haters, and it has the potential to really destroy the band at this point.

hey we can do our own music video  (Still no links to the leaks - Skeba)
maybe we can do our own album ?


come on guys
chill out.
there are a lot of things to worry about beside cd.
lets just enjoy the music we have, the concerts, and when cd comes, cd comes. no big deal.
2007 is fine with me :)


on the "technical/timing" issues.
i usually want to hope and dream that they have a secret plan, in terms of marketing / promotion? / delivering the album.
but i just realuze they are just not interested in the classical way the industry works.
good for them.

a cd can be announced and released within days. alot of bands do it all the time on 2 week notice

Same here, I was asking that to my local store here in Brussels. It's kind of a little shop that sells only RN'R records, but he said that sometimes they get boxes with records that weren't announced, along with a PR regarding the artist.

Or, in they database, a record can sort of 'pop-up' out of nowhere ...

I dont understand this cause there have newer been an official announcement that it would come out in 2006?.

The only things that has been said is:

Axl: You will here music this year (it could be a singel or anything)

Merck: There are bla bla tuesday left in 2006 (does that mean that a album come out this year?)

The new gunsnroses.com is a very good and simple site, that keeps you updated on the tings that are important.

That can be done within aweek.. but I understand what you're saying.. who knows??

It doesn't sound trollish. It's just the truth. They aren't in Europe anymore.

Thanks for your great post. Let's wait and see what happens...

There is also the idea that the stores DO know about it and they just arent putting it up for "public" display (by which i mean inputting it on the system for YOU to see ;D)

if it's 2007 then we have at least to wait till march...

I work at a music store as well, and I check our system every day for any new Guns and Roses info and there's not. Even if Axl wanted to album to just "show up" music stores would need to put the UPC in their system to sell it. So I can't see this album dropping with out some sort of information about when it will come out.

Either ther is a huge mystic masterplan that is involving basicly every record dealer on planet earth ( meaning that  no "normal" employee gets to know anything) or CD will not drop this year...
What abot this: Eminem also has a new cd in the next weeks, right? I think the amount of cd's that will be placed in the stores will be equal to the amount that will be placed for Guns ...
What "IF" they just say Eminems album will be released on xxxxxx and instead thy 'll drop CD and the Eminem album close before christmas?

ahh forget it.. just a dumb thought

Expect anything from GN'R and Axl. Hold on, we'll see...

 :peace:

Yeah. I mean if they went as far as feature a RS article with Merck confirming that "it could drop on any tuesday", it seems pretty definite, at least that they've got something in the works. And if this is due to change, again, considering this information has been printed in a large scale publication from an official source, they really need to put some sort of statement out if there are any changes to this schedule.

I posted a new thread..'in light of.........', i was hoping it would get some answers from a band source to try to ease all this negativity down and stuff like that

If theres a 'two-week notice', something should pop up today.

Hmm that's the general expectation..But if their plan is to have notice prior to the release of the album, really they need to give notice as much as possible, but if there is an announcement they may only do it at short notice prior to the release of the album whenever it is...I don't know though the possibilities are endless.. fuck knows what their plan is or what they want to pull off

just a thought, like some of the others, what if the details are in the system but under a different name?
im not sure if this could be done but say some details such as artist, albu etc were changed to some 'fake' names.
wouldnt this solve the problems od shelving etc as last minute details could be changed and 'bang' the selving etc is already available?

I think CD needs to be looked at in a very different light to other releases 14 years and $13+ million on an album is unheard of in the music buisness today! The Guns campe wont want this to leak and the best way to go about doing this is to keep everything stum until the last minute, we all know they are good at doing that. Universal, who took CD off Geffens hands in late 2002 will be using their top people to get this out, it wont leak once its pressed because they will use their own CD houses, it will probably be shipped to stores and the first anyone will know about it will be when they open the blank boxes on Sunday evening. They have made it clear that there isnt going to be any heavy promotion, its not how they want to do things. By not telling stores all they are going to do is miss out on instore promotion on the first day of release, that doesnt really matter in the itunes world. CD will be a slow seller, management have probably settled on that. Axl has done all the hype of a major album release, UYI was such a huge seller on the first day of release, maybe he just wants to do something different this time, or maybe he realises that the music buisness has become complete shit these days and just wants to put out a CD in his own way. I for one am in favour of that!

Jonx

No one will not buy it  if it doesnt come out in 2006. We'll be pissed, but we'll still buy it.

For it to still happen in 2006, it'd have to just drop in stores with no promotion.

With this band, I wouldn't be shocked if that happened.

with GNR, you cant expect stuff like "well we dont have it on our list"

gnr is gonna do the unconventional...

Exactly. With Guns N' Roses, ALWAYS expect the unexpected.

The OP doubts CD will be released this year cause...-
- the record-chain he works for won't be able to put it on the "New releases" shelve this year :P

It is perfectly possible they relase the album when planned anyway I assure you :peace:

Everything is different with this album...so I do not really think that we can expect a "regular" campaign. CD is most likely the most expensive album and Geffen/Universal has 2 opportunities: Write off the money, put the album out whenever and see how it sells.
The other opportunity would be a blitz campaign and I do think that Universal has the market power to do that and push CD in the stores on very short notice. Lets hope for the later.

Anyways...in the end we just have to wait (for another 13 years:):):)) and see...

the album is not coming out this year...it was just a load of crap they fed us so that we'd get exited about the tour...fuck them

If Universal want to push Chinese Democracy at short notice(1 week) the record stores will have no alternative but to give it 100% support and promotion. For example, virgin records plays hardball, says that they can't give floor space to a GN'R Promotion. Universal tells them that they don't get the special limited edition CD release of one of their other artists for a forthcoming release.

Its not like that. I have friends in some important stores and they all say 2 weeks notice is enough for the stores to be prepared for a special release like CD

now that would be a way to pressure the record stores  :hihi:
Actually i could imagine something like that to happen but i am not familliar with the procedure of "how to release a record" anyway.....
All that stuff is so confusing.....

what if chinese democracy "IS" on music stores upcoming albums list but its not down as chinese democracy or even guns n roses.they might just use a fake title in the industry just to get space on the shelves for its release.itd make sense and probebly wouldve stopped the release date being leaked up until CD actually arrives in the stores.can anyone look on those lists to see if theres any dodgy looking albums due for release on the 21st 

:hihi: sometimes i make myself laugh reading the tripe myself and others come up with on this board

I agree with the poster.
Working in advertising for a large US retailer, I can tell you that there is NO mention of a new GNR CD in any of our sunday circulars through mid-december. Everything in November has been printed, and our December ads are getting close.
The only way a "surprise" release date could happen, would be if it was digital (with iTunes).
I'm still holding out hope that they have something in the works, but I don't know what it could be.

touring in support of an album that doesn't exist seemed silly in 2002. Doing the same thing in 2006 (with the same supposed mystery album) is ridiculous. If I wasn't a diehard fan, I would be skeptical and/or laughing along with all the other naysayers.

They did that for UYI, i guess it could happen again!

I agree that Guns doesn't want CD to leak, but I don't think that has anything to do with this situation.  Announcing a release date doesn't mean that it's easier to leak a CD....  Leaking goes by the same process regardless if there's a release date or not.  And it's not impossible to prevent leaks with a release date.  A recent example is Bob Dylan's Modern Times, which was way more anticipated than CD is (yea, i know a lot of you won't agree with that but it's true).  I was searching for leaks all week before it was released, and they weren't available until the weekend before the release.  I'm assuming that once they were delivered to the retail outlets, they were leaked.

But, what I'm saying is that none of this has to do with preventing a leak!  There are other problems here, like someone in the band said "someone could sneeze and delay the album" or whatever.  I'm sure the band is trying to release CD as soon as possible, but they don't want to confirm a release date because anything could happen and delay the album.

I agree with the thread poster and have only one thing to add to the conversation: I don't get this huge fear that the album will leak a week or two before its release.  ???  Since everybody who's interested in the album will buy it sooner or later and every casual listeners who have no intention to buy it, just want to hear something off the new GN'R-record can easily download the whole shit the day when it gets released.

its just gonna show up in stores one day

maybe it willbe released 01/01/07 in the UK thats a monday just to piss us off lol. it does seem like it isnt come out, but i do say here and now, if it doesnt come out this year, i will be abandoning GNR as much as i love them, too many lies and deceit has come from axl. this is his last chance for me.

not that he needs my support lol

Why not be conventional about this release like EVERY OTHER BAND in the world?  Why is there ANY secrecy involved here??

Obviously, the less people who know about the release, the greater proportion that buy it.

There is no secrecy. The album just isn't coming out. All of this masterplan speculation is just something people on these boards do to make themselves feel better about being lied to (again).

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to be posting this in, but I figured some of you might be interested in this... especially considering the GNR/Merck/Universal connection.

Cheers,
W.R.


11/03/2006 3:00 PM, Yahoo! Music
Dotmusic

Elton John has launched a furious attack on his record label, who he claims have made no attempt to promote his new album.

The pop legend used the words "f--k Universal" from the stage at his show in New York on Wednesday evening for their perceived lack of support.

Sir Elton claims the enormous entertainment company has not backed The Captain And The Kid since its release, and wants the label to drop him.

He told the crowd at Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum: "Nobody would know the album has been out since September. My record label isn't doing anything to help. F--k Universal. Please drop me. I'm 58 and I don't care anymore."

Universal has not yet responded to Sir Elton's comments.

http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/36886776

Yes, but we were given details and preorder info on that album about two months in advance, too. There may not have been promotion but if people knew it was coming out they had a way of looking up information on it.

Someone in the thread suggested that perhaps the album is listed and we, as employees, just aren't "allowed" to see it because it's hidden or under a different title. Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Reality doesn't bend for GN'R. This isn't a system for my store - it's a worldwide music database that is updated constantly and an album would never be able to be "hidden" in the system. Furthermore this renders it obsolete because the entire point of it is so that we can gather details and customers can have the option of preordering if we are not modeled for a copy on the stands.

As for the "It'll just be in the stores one day" comment - Merck was joking when he said that, trying to take the piss out of everyone who was trying to guess release dates. It would never be able to happen, because the stores get shipments in on Friday because the people in receiving have to have time to receive the boxes, unpack them, and forward them to music departments.

If the album drops Tuesday and we get the shipment in on Tuesday it wouldn't be out on the floor till days later.

So even if it drops some random Tuesday, people in receiving would know by Friday, which means word would spread.

The reasons why and why not for this album are getting reallly old but on another note. Does your computer system say anything about when the new stooges album is supposed to be released?

Me too!

Hey, I went into an FYE store today, and I asked the people running the store if they new anything about it.  They check the computers, and it said "Coming Soon."  Of course there wasn't a date, but still! lol...  And the one guy's opinion was that it will come out after the tour is over.  That would mean the beginning of next year, wouldn't it?

Yes, but he's hardly going to know more than anyone else is he?
I mean, I keep seeing posts from people who work in record stores but who cares? It's not as if the information they get is special and exclusive just to them.

i think we'll hear about the release date before record stores, unless the boxes just show up in shipping/receiving one day.

Yep, thats for certain :peace:

The independent store near me often let me buy albums before release day.
I bought the Alexisonfire album as they were taking it out of the box when it arrived around 3 days before release. So hopefully I shall be getting the GnR album a few days early!

At this point, I seriously don't care anymore. The album is never going to come out. We all need to wake up.

Too many of these posts - whatever we think will happen does not happen - He cancels gig last night - thinking the 19 people in attendance are going to be pissed? Fire Marhall or not, let's move on - Yes he's to blame for small attendance - but let's not forget, if they decided to play 10 shows in MSG instead of charging up the coast playing smaller venues, they would have made a lot more $$$$$$$$ - Be thankful they booked the smaller places ( if you live there) whatever -  Going Friday - As long as they show - all is well in my world - I refuse to rake my brain about CD releases, singles, videos, Fire Marshalls - Just show up and play the shows you booked and make last night a one time thing

BULLSHIT. Have you heard Axl's interview with Eddie Trunk before the Hammerstein shows? He said, "DEFINITELY this year...fall or late fall." And then again at the MTV VMA awards, John Norris interviewed him backstage and he said, "It IS this year."

He also said in 1999 that it was going to be released. Take everything that Axl Rose says with a grain of salt.

They could just drop it on Itunes and their website to sell, without much notice. Then release a special edition physical copy early next year.

To the person who started this thread, I don't know you personally so please don't take this to heart......you've wasted alot of your time with all your faithless thinking.

Yes the cd can just show up at record stores.  It does not need months worth of promotion or notice.

Artist have released their cds prior to their intended/announced release date to avoid leaks.

You're wrong...Yes, CD's can come out prior to their release date, BUT, music stores run on CPU's and information about CD's including those CD's barcodes, need to be uploaded. CD's are SCANNED when you buy them....you can't just sell a CD, it doesn't work that way.

PLUS, consider the fact that stores all around the country ORDER product...product doesn't just drop on their lap.

It's no use arguing facts with the blindly faithful. To them, anything that points to the album not being released is just part of the "masterplan" to keep a secret.

your concerns certainly are valid, but remember there are 2 months left in the year...alot can happen

If that's really what you believe, forgive my telling you this, but you are a rather ignorant person. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all or implying that, as an employee at a record store, I'd have more info than any of you. But the simple fact is that it is impossible for an album to be released a couple days before its intended debut for the simple fact that outlets (a) need to be able to SCHEDULE the album for release, (b) update their systems, and (c) as a result include bar code info.

When you buy a CD the PLU is scanned. Do you know why? Because it contains information on the album, including its price.

If an album drops as a "surprise" on Tuesday, November 21st, stores would need to know ahead of time.

Maybe this works differently for independently run, smaller stores - but unless Merck plans on only having Chinese Democracy sold in willing indie stores in the middle of nowhere, it won't work.

The major outlets - HMV, Virgin, Amazon, B&N, Borders, etc. - don't work that way. And no "master plan" is going to change that.

Oh I do. I was just responding to the person who claimed that Axl never even said that it would be released this year.

MAn, if it doesnt come out this year...I think im going to do some coke and shoot someone. I havent been phazed at all by all the hope that has come countless times, but this time...it has really gotten to me. I am not going to be up for playing anymore if it doesnt come this year.

Fuck Axl, don't let me down.

One month and a half, six Tuesdays until Christmas.

GNR is in no way conventional.

They will not go about releasing the album the same way as other artists.

If that causes inconvenience to music stores, i doubt the band would care all that much.

here's a thought...maybe they WILL drop the album with no notice...but on iTunes or for purchase from their or licensed websites...not necessarily to achieve some grand master surprise, but to maximize the money the record company gets back...cut out the middle man. After all, they've dropped 13 mill on a guy who quite frankly, ain't gonna sell 15 million albums...

Talk about needing to "reconnect to reality."  ::)

It's not an "inconvenience" to music stores, it means they can't sell the album.

If an album is dropped without the PLU bar code being in systems then the album literally cannot be sold. That is one of many problems.

The only outlet that they could pull off a surprise release with would be maybe on iTunes, but I can't imagine that happening because as soon as people download the songs through iTunes they'd start sharing them. I think if anything they're going to want to discourage downloading the music and have copy-protection on the album.

I've been saying for a while that there is a lot to releasing an album, and the artist doesn't have a whole lot of say in a lot of aspects. Merck just can't go into Interscope and say: "Okay. We're ready. Release it today."

It ain't coming out in November and I'm having major doubts about December. That's reality. Anyone who wants to hang on to the fantasy is setting themsleves up for major disappointment.

I'm glad someone else can balance reality against expectations.

I mean, I want nothing more than to hear this record by the end of the year, but as a reality it's slimming more and more each passing day.

What is not comforting is that so many aspects of the band seem to be neglected or contradictory. Stuff is posted and then removed from the official website with no explanation, and Axl hasn't actually said the words "Chinese Democracy" for as long as I can remember.

When you're on tour to help promote an album that's coming out in a month and a half it may be a good thing to remind the casual fans at the shows that, hey, this year is the year.

By not even mentioning it to all the people who are out of the loop, he's ruining great potential.

The news report of the Maine cancellation interviewed fans of the old GN'R who weren't even aware of a new album being out. Imagine if Axl closed the show by reminding them that it's coming out soon.

It's the little stuff like that which makes me feel uneasy about the album's release...it's like Axl is ignoring it altogether.

I can understand him growing weary of CD concerns, but he has to expect that a lot of people are going to be curious after more than a decade.

I'm not being negative or anything, but GNR fans have been let down so many times before I've just become immune to it. I just hate to see the rest of the fans being let down... again.

It would be nice for someone "official" to just say "Yes. It is coming out this year. Plans are set"

I've never understood what advantage can be gained by keeping fans out of the loop. To be honest, I haven't understood many things in the workings of GNR.

Franz Kafka wrote that sometimes the most intelligent tricks and stratagems turn against the person who conceived them...

Maybe someone in the newgnr camp should meditate on that.

I personally think it's kind of sad how far people are willing to go on "blind" faith.
This is 2006 people...Corporations work in a certain fashion....as much as we love GN'R...HUGE corporations could CARE LESS about Axl and company...

MAJOR RETAILERS work in a certain format...They are not going to jump through hoops for CD....If 99.99% of albums are released in a certain fashion.....That is how they are released....

Please understand how a business works...There is a lot more to it than the CD just showing up, slapping a $11.99 sticker on it and putting it on the shelf...EVERYTHING is automated and done through computers....IT HAS TO BE IN THE SYSTEM, and space given for it on the shelves....Thats just the way it works guys....

We are all eagerly awaiting the album....but sometimes you have to think sanely....as much as WE love GN'R....major corporations are not going to bust their own balls to give Axl full reign on how they do business...

When you buy a CD the PLU is scanned. Do you know why? Because it contains information on the album, including its price.-Very true. However, this can fixed in a matter of seconds. I used to work in an electronics store, if something was suddenly deleted off the system, it could be added again in mere seconds.

If an album drops as a "surprise" on Tuesday, November 21st, stores would need to know ahead of time.

Again, the only reason they'd need to know ahead of time would be to make purchases of the album from their vendors. Otherwise, no notice is really needed. It may be a bother to try and work in the "Guns N' Roses" section of the store or the new release wall, but this can be remmided by simply pulling copies of AFD from the GN'R section or reducing the amount of facings of the new, amazing P Diddy album (just an example, he doesn't have one, as far as I know). While certain rules will differ from store to store, a release that's huge enough, rules can be and would be tossed out the window.

I hate to tell you this, but a GNR album release with no promotion would not be considered "huge" by any means.

Maybe not, but everyone's acting like the store would need 8 motherfuckin' months notice to figure out where to put the damn album.

That's not realistic. An average shipment of new releases for most average-sized stores is about 80 - 120 depending on the demand. (Example: Sam's Town we got many of, whereas Fergie's CD barely any.)

You can't make room last minute for this many CDs. Pulling AFD out of the GN'R section will result in maybe two or three album slots.

As for the New Release spots - yes, they are all modeled deliberately, and most stores have the exact whereabouts of albums in their systems so that they can find something. Our store has a floor layout, a database, and a monthly print-out with revisions listing the location of every new release in the store.


Retailers don't care about GN'R more than any other hot, big new release. To them it's just another album. Next Tuesday there will be more.

It's Universal who cares more about GN'R, and they are going to guarantee a $13 million album is promoted to its full extent.


Puh-lease. No one ever said that or implied it.

But they do need more than a week or a month. The world doesn't bend over for Guns N' Roses. Stores nationwide aren't going to all change their policies to make room for a single album.

That's not realistic. An average shipment of new releases for most average-sized stores is about 80 - 120 depending on the demand. (Example: Sam's Town we got many of, whereas Fergie's CD barely any.)

You can't make room last minute for this many CDs. Pulling AFD out of the GN'R section will result in maybe two or three album slots.

That's true. However, the store can always change plans. Not sure when you're store or each store for that matter, will do it's Tuesday New Release set-up, but it can easily be accommodated. We used to get shipments of things all the time we weren't expecting with notes from Head Office "This MUST go here and be displayed this way". We didn't get a week's notice, we might get a day or we got any at all and that would just be, "So and so is arriving, instructions are gonna be Fed-Ex'd and should arrive with it.

As for the New Release spots - yes, they are all modeled deliberately, and most stores have the exact whereabouts of albums in their systems so that they can find something. Our store has a floor layout, a database, and a monthly print-out with revisions listing the location of every new release in the store.

Yes, so did ours, but again, if Universal gives the word to stores, CD is coming and you'd better find a space for it, the store will find a space for it.


I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just arguing the point that the album doesn't need a huge promo to land in stores. I don't really believe that it will be there Nov 21, but it could be.

Maybe CD will be released secretely, selling as few copies as possible to prevent too many people from listening to it.
Maybe CD has already been released under a different name, and we don't know. Stupid people as us aren't able to understand management's and record company's stratagems. Those people went to college, you know. There's a master plan going on...

Why is this date of November 21st popping up again. Did Universal Music say something about that day?

I think it would help if he actually had musicians playing with him that were better known. I mean the average G n R fan has no idea who some of these guys are like Robin Finch or whoever else he has playing for him. I mean come on Axl get some decent musicians with somewhat of a name and that will help out alot. I hope the album is decent and il check it out but to expect another UYI 1 and 2 would be far fetched.

Can we screen new posters before we allow them to post nonsense like the above?

I don't want to misinterpret or misunderstand your post, but I'm gathering your criticising the current musicians in the band just because they aren't "decent musicians with somewhat of a name"?

The people in the band are world class musicians not only in their own individual rights and background and achievements but collectively and most importantly they work very well together. I don't know exactly how long you've been following the progress since they started touring in 2000 but, especially this year, the lineup have proved that, yes, they're not the old GNR, but that does not, in any way, make them any less in terms of their musicianship. I'm not biased to anybody, but Robin Finck for example, may not be a virtuoso guitarist but he plays with soul and passion. Bumblefoot is an amazing guitarist who is in a league with Slash if not further ahead in terms of technicality. Don't discredit these people because they don't "have a name". They're fucking amazing musicians who bring new energy into GNR. If you miss the old guys, fair enough, but there's Velvet Revolver..

hahaha, yeah.

i think what we have already heard is a match for UYI songs.

The blues- absoulutely killer, a stronge "chart" single!

Madagascar-like something off pink floyds the wall, whcih is widely regarded as one of the best albums ever.

Better- nuff said, have you actuallly heard this! awesome especially the outro.

IRS- good song, rockin, big time! the finished version will be heavy as fuck imo.

TWAT- think estranged or coma, but better!!!

CITR-the version thats "ahem" avaialable is excellent but the sound quality is poor

Chinese democracy- i think this will be much better recorded on the album, but its already strong.


so i think the new songs are a match for even the great greaty songs from UYI

That's absolutely right on. The old songs are exactly that. Classics.
That I have absolutely no doubt, will at the very least, be matched, if not excelled.

When these killer, groundbreaking, amazing songs, which we've only heard in odd live bootlegs and rough demos, surface in their final versions in all their polished and blasting glory, it's going to make some of the older stuff sound irrelevant. I can honestly tell you that I listen to alot of GNR's stuff across the board, stuff off "Lies" through to "The Spaghetti Incident", but the absolute truth is that I keep going back to the newer stuff because I feel it alot more and I love it.

I am an ingnorant person, huh??  Or, are you saying I am ignorant on this particluar subject??  Clarify....or your ignorance will indeed have shined.

Nothing is impossible.  Period.  You see the world as limited then you are limited.

Axl has broken ALL the industry rules around this album.  Ten years and 15 million dollars in the making.  What makes you think he will "follow your industry rules" when it comes to the release of the most anticipated cd release in the history of rock 'n' roll?

Granted I'm sure the system works as you've explained.  If the cds start showing up in boxes, they'll be sold from the boxes if need be because I and all my fellow army of gunners will be following them around the store saying, "I know you have copies of CD, please release them!!!!!!"

 :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Fact is record stores want our money.  And if your record store won't get them out of the box than I'll go to the next......and to the next.......shit, Barnes and Noble is customer friendly to the max.  They'll pull it out of the box for me and scan it in without delay.  They've done it in the past.

What's to stop them from relesaing it on itunes or are you not an "expert" on itunes??

Well, then itunes novice-boy......I'll answer that for you........"Nothing".

I agree with you. The fact that Axl isn't talking about CD anymore is quite strange.

Look i love G N R and im sure the new players are all world class and will kick on the new CD. I was just saying that there are alot of people out there who would rather have some familiar and well known faces to go with the music and not just Axl. Didnt mean to sound like a jerk.

Not sure that GN'R will really require a lot of the publicity or marketing "stunts" that other acts require. I'm sure that stores will conform to any "special" wishes of the band and management. Only time will tell though, no need to spend life "philosophizing" over it.

a.

Yea but this isnt really G n R its just Axl and a bunch of hired GUNS so i think a little extra marketing would help alot. I know il buy it the second it comes out but im sure alot of people will be skeptical.

Is it so hard to believe that Universal tells all the major retailers "We've got an album by (insert fake name here) that's coming out on (insert date), 2006. ?Please add it to your catalogues."? ?Didn't GNR do a similar things with some music awards back in the day, by going under the alias "The Frogs" or something like that?

Given that we've seen most retailers in the past add CD to their computers with nothing happening, i doubt that it's so much to expect that they'd hide it under some fake alias. ?I doubt this would happen, but concievably, they could market the album under another major artist's name (with their permission) so that the stores get enough stock.

As for stores not being able to find space to show the album: gimme a break. ?If Universal calls up Virgin and HMV and says, we want this album in stores in 3 days, make it happen or we don't give you limited edition copies of xxx artist's stuff (like Jay-Z for instance [if he's on universal]), the stores will fall in line. ?Record companies have been doing this sort of shit to promote new artists with magazines and radio stations for years, doing it to stores is just another step in the same direction.

It's so silly to argue that the reason there's no more talk about a release date is because it's a "secret" now. I'm not singling you out. This is directed to anyone who has bought into this ridiculous theory. Conspiracy theorists have the easiest point of view to argue from.... any evidence against the conspiracy is just part of the conspiracy.

The reason Chinese Democracy isn't found in any music store computer is because it's not coming out, period. That's the only logical conclusion. Why on earth would a band keep the release date of their album a secret? Do they not want anyone to know when they can buy it? Ridiculous!

i think that the new songs are toal kickass stuff, i like them even more then the illusion era stuff!

I agree that it is very far fetched... But I don't believe that 'stores CAN'T accomodate it' is a good enough reason to dismiss a 2006 release date. ?My thinking is that if GNR wasn't planing on releasing CD in 2006, they should tell people. ?We've had multiple statements from the band/management that it should be coming out this year and as 'recent' as the RS article/US tour press release, Merck has said it was coming out in 2006. ?

Unless they aren't telling us it's delayed because they don't want to hurt potential ticket sales (let's face it, there's a better chance of selling tickets if people think the album is coming out this year), there's no reason to keep this charade up. ?

While this doesn't really apply to the GNR camp, if I tell you I'm doing something in the future (6 months away lets say), just cause I don't mention it in a while doesn't mean that I stopped planning on doing it. ?

BTW Jim, I know it's not personal ;).  Unfortunately, too many board members are taking comments way too personally and creating a negative environment.  This board should be for discussion and debate, which is why personal attacks are against the rules...

Actually Slash, Duff, Steven & Matt were hired GUNS.

Axl & Izzy founded the band.

I think you hit the nail on the head. It probably would hurt ticket sales (as if they need more of that) if they said Chinese Democracy is going to be delayed yet again. I mean, if they had to cancelthe first two dates of this tour so Axl could add "finishing touches" on the album; realisitically, how could it possibly be ready by now?

On the subject. That is what we are discussing, yes?


Did you get that from one of Merck's press releases?


Those are record standards. Not retail standards. Every single thing you find in a store follows a procedure to find its way to that shelf. There are laws that retailers must follow regarding how merchandise is distributed, received, etc., because if it's done incorrectly then money can be lost on both ends and lawsuits can be filed and so on and so forth.


Please. If you think it's the most anticipated release in rock n' roll history then maybe I take back what I said above and you really are just an overall ignorant person.

GN'R fans are looking forward to this. The general public still thinks it's a punchline to a bad joke and the press uses Chinese Democracy as a running gag, too.

I'm not dissing the album - I can't wait to hear it. But not many outside of the GN'R bubble share our unadulterated enthusiasm.

Retail stores aren't going to collectively gasp and shriek, "OMIGOD! CHINESE DEMOCRACY!!! GET IT TO THE SHELVES, NOW!!! IT'S THE MOST ANTICIPATED ALBUM IN ROCK N' ROLL HISTORY, IT...MUST...BE...DISPLAYED!"

They won't treat it any differently than any other album release. That same Tuesday other albums will be dropped and the Tuesday afterwards more will be released from other artists.

What if this is the real Jake E Lee?  He could replace one of the gunners.....  Maybe he is asking for the gig?  In case you guys don't know, Jake E. Lee is a major badass.  Played with Ozzy after Rhoads and in a band called Badlands.

Why did we know in great advance that "Greatest Hits" was coming out?  It was released by the same record company...  Do they now have a different policy when releasing CD?  They even had commercials for the Greatest Hits album.  Why wouldn't they invest in new commercials.. Cause it is not coming out right now.  That is why.  I hope it does, but with no hype, it will sell less then VR.

You heard about the GH, because it was being released AGAINST the wishes of the band, including Axl and Slash & Duff, whose lawyers teamed up to sue, in order to bar it's release.

Neither party wanted it to be released, but if it was imminent they wanted to have some say so in the tracklist. The GH was basically thrown together and put out to make money on the GN'R name.

You heard about it, because Axl didn't have a hand in it's release. Otherwise, it might've been different. Also keep in mind, comparing a compliation release of previously released material is not near as big of a deal, as putting out an all-new record.

Please. If you think it's the most anticipated release in rock n' roll history then maybe I take back what I said above and you really are just an overall ignorant person.

GN'R fans are looking forward to this. The general public still thinks it's a punchline to a bad joke and the press uses Chinese Democracy as a running gag, too.

I'm not dissing the album - I can't wait to hear it. But not many outside of the GN'R bubble share our unadulterated enthusiasm.

Retail stores aren't going to collectively gasp and shriek, "OMIGOD! CHINESE DEMOCRACY!!! GET IT TO THE SHELVES, NOW!!! IT'S THE MOST ANTICIPATED ALBUM IN ROCK N' ROLL HISTORY, IT...MUST...BE...DISPLAYED!"

They won't treat it any differently than any other album release. That same Tuesday other albums will be dropped and the Tuesday afterwards more will be released from other artists.


i think you're probably right, i think hardly anyone gives a fuck outside the GnR community because they dont believe its gonna happen. the press makes jokes about the album when reviewing shows.

i think until the album is actually available to buy, then not a lot of people will care.

i think it will be on MTV news (if that still exists, i dont watch MTV anymore), with a "oh yeah, remember that album, the one that cost blah blah blah blah blah, its actually out now"

then they'll start saying stuff like "rose and his hired guns".........and we'll all get pissed off, honestly, thats the way its gonna be! :hihi:

Unfortunately im not the real Jake but it would be great if Jake and ol Axl hooked up wouldnt it. Jake put out an album of cover tunes ealier in the year called Retraced and hes still got the chops.

<~~~ this statement makes me laugh so much.... Axl gave a bunch of people during UYI tours a name.....not the other way, teddy zig zag??? tracy and roberta?? the guys that were in gn'r gave themselves a name while IN gn'r... slash?? pffffft he was a nobody, axl??? a pompous young kid with a very wide eyed view of the world?? duff?? izzy??? izzy didn't even want to be world famous..... steven?? come on ..... learn to be a little smarter, Mr. Finck is supposed to be Slash's replacement, bumblefoot is supposed to be a 2nd lead, and fortus is supposed to be rhythm, from what axl said a long time ago when paul huge/tobias was still working with him... ?and having a UY dual albums would suck... it wouldn't work well in the current events in music right now..

EDIT: i forgot to mention the horn players who had no name and still don't.

You should see what those morons on Blabbermouth say about ol Axl ?:rofl:some of that stuff is hillarious ?:rofl:

Dude trust me most people still have no idea who Bumblfoot or Zig Zag are. And i was refering to the current members of the group not the original 5. Look im not trying to argue with anybody all im saying is that IMO he could have chosen better musicians thats all. But like i said il be buying that CD no matter who plays on it the second it hits the stores  :beer:

There's a reason Jake got replaced by Zakk "GOD" Wylde.

Stop this nonsense Axlite bullshit.

Yes, Axl, Izzy and some other guys founded GN'R. They played together for like 3 months. Then Duff, Slash and Steven joined the band. GN'R haven't done jackshit before Slash & Co joined. These 5 guys made Guns N' Roses, not Tracii Guns or Robert Gardner. They wrote the albums we all love. (I guess you still like the classic records otherwise it's hard to call yourself a GN'R fan.) Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven were members. The others (from Dizzy and Matt to Robin and Frank Ferrer) are employees. Hence the name 'Hired Guns'. Get real and stop posting insanity.

Ummm, I like Zakk, but Jake smokes him... ?Most players know this. ?Jake E Lee is a major bad ass..

http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/bios/Lee.shtml

Wylde is a good songwriter though. ?

Facts are facts.

They were all hired Guns except for Axl & Izzy. If you Slashites really want to make this argument, we can play.

Dude, that's not the argument people maintain. I'm not a "Slashite" at all but I've never heard any of them argue against the fact that he was hired after the band was formed early on.

However, that's not the point. Who was in the band when they recorded and released AFD? Who was in the band when they peaked at number one, became popular? Who was in the band when the solos for SCOM, Estranged, November Rain, Paradise City, Don't Cry, and other hits songs were written?

Axl and Izzy founded the band but they didn't become popular until they hired new people. Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven became Guns N' Roses in the public's collective consciousness because that is who was in the band when they succeeded.

Until new Guns N' Roses release an album that succeeds well there will always be people who complain about the new lineup.

The fact that the primary lead guitarist for the album - Buckethead - has left already won't help much, but at least once the album actually drops people will realize what they're capable of.

Yea because Ozzy is a drunk and Jake was to good to be playing for that clown anyway. In Zakk Ozzy found a fellow boozehound who would kiss his ass and do what he was told. It is well known that Jake was tired of Ozzy's drunken bufoonery and had enough of him. So your right there was several reasons why Jake was replaced and skill or talent had nothing to do with it.

Jake E. Lee, jamming on such crapsics as Shot In The Dark.

Aww man your missing the boat here. Its not Jake's fault Ozzy writes crappy songs. Check out Voodoo Highway and Badlands (ST) and youl see what i mean dude. And hey i like Zakk i just think that Jake is a better axeman.

Jake is a better Axe man.  Players know.  Zakk is awesome and I love Pride and Glory.  Jake is the real deal.

Izzy said some years ago that Axl and SLASH earned more than him, that's one of the many reasons why he decided to leave.

So, the "employee" Slash earned more than "founder" Izzy... And an even stranger thing is that "employee" Slash earned as much as "mastermind/superboss/God" Axl... Very strange...

The truth is that until Slash came in, Guns N'Roses was nothing.

I loved Pride and Glory as well and Zakk did his best work on that CD. I wish Jake wasnt such a recluse but i guess some people arent into the whole rock star thing.

True enough. I'm in a position much the same. But then again, depending on what kind of a music store you're an employee of (independent or big box) you could very easily set up some last minute, night-before-the-release display. We did that (not at all by choice, I assure you!) with the new DVD release of the original Star Wars trilogy at KMart. We put up a few of those cardboard displays, and that was the only stock we had out on the floor: about 20 of each format of each movie. If others wanted them, we could easily get to the stockroom and bring stuff out.

I was actually fairly suprised the other day, because we were putting out more seasonal specific merchandise on the floor, and I came across boxes marked DO NOT PLACE ON SALES FLOOR BEFORE_____ . I thought to myself, "Ooh boy!" And I popped the box open, just to find some gay Sopranos game. My point here is: The Sopranos game was online, and it was slated for a release. We at KMart (for whatever reason), didn't have it on any kind of manifest, and we didn't know we were 'supposed' to have any until we looked in the Sunday morning ad, in anticipation for Tuesday.

Also: releases are subject to change. Some hiphop/rap album was advertised in the paper, but it was pulled two days before it hit shelves. I forgot who it was. So, the converse of that: knowledge of a product can be distributed two days before projected dates of management. Just something to think about....


Well. I was thinking this might have something to do with the chick that was flashing the camera. Maybe they decided not to run it, or any other footage, because of that... Just an idea, because I doubt that's a good enough reason. It's GNR for Christ's sake!

/Kevin

BTW- What is the music store you work out of? Independent? Big Box?

Eveyone is entitled to believe what they want to.  I just don't see how not having shelf room in a store would be any kind of problem.  If you go to Best Buy for example, there is always at least one dvd/game/cd free standing unit devoted to a particular title.  So yes, there are many reasons that one could point to, that point to no imminent release.  But I for one don't buy this excuse at all.

It is curious.  For fun, I called about 6 record stores about CD release date.  As expected I recieved some chuckles and sarcastic comments. The funniest comment was the clerk saying...."wow, its finally coming out?"....um, bud, thats why I am calling you, and you're asking me if it coming out?

 After they were unable to tell me a release date, I would then ask them what is the time frame "needed" for a release date. They all told me it could happen as instant as a box of the CDs showing up at the door, so timeframe would not be an issue.  They told me it is very pheasable to get a quick release date and put the cd on the shelves. Maybe who I spoke with doesn't know shit, or it can vary from record store to record store. I got the vibe that a "surpise"  release would be no issue for the store...who knows. Grasping for hope and straws here.

Other than Merck's sarcastic comment about the album dropping with no promotion, what evidence has there been that's pointed to a "surprise" release? So many people seem to be jumping on this. I don't get it. Why would a band drop an album and not give fans a day when they can go buy it?

Three quick points:

1.  I don't see how it would be impossible for a single to drop on the 14th with notice that the album is being released on the 21st.  Wouldn't that give record stores ample time to order the album?  I don't work at a record store, but it seems logical that inventory could be ordered quickly.    ???

2.  It makes sense they wouldn't give a release date.  Think about how many people that you've told chinese democracy is coming out on xx/xx/xx and then laughed in your face.  If they did give a release date, in advance, nobody would believe it anyway!   ;)

3.  Whoever said Chinese Democracy isn't the most anticipated album in rock history clearly doesn't know rock history.   I challenge anyone to offer another album that has been anticipated as much (if you say Brian Wilson's Smile, you're wrong).  Think about it, whenever anything relating to chinese democracy comes up it's all overt mtv news and rollingstone, as well as every other online music reporting organization.   : ok:

I didn't mean "surpise" in that the album would drop with no promotion, but rather more that the time the release date is announced and the time it is actually released does not have to be subtantial according to the record stores I spoke with, meaning that just because a release date is yet to be announced, doesn't necessarily mean the album can't come out in November.

Quite honestly, Chinese Democracy is not even the most anticpated album in Guns N' Roses history.  Anyone that knows G N' R history and lived through it knows that the Illusions were much more anticipated.  There is evidence of that fact as well.  Almost every major record store was opened at 12:01 AM on the Tuesday of the release and more than 2 million copies were sold in one week. 

yeah, UYI were obviously huge, but the landscape of music was very different.  Rock ruled the day and old Guns were the kings of that scene.  Today, hip-hop consistently outsells rock records and many rock fans simply download...  Overall, though, to say that CD is less anticipated is false.  Whether or not it will sell as much is a totally different issue, but just the 13 year delay, alone, makes it more anticipated.  Just look at Rolling Stone, the apparant quintessential forum on music.  When describing CD, they use words like "mythical," etc...  When you talk to any casual rock fan, they may not know who plays lead guitar in gn'r today, but 99% of those casual rock fans have, at least, heard of chinese democracy.   This mini-debate we're having is obviously off-topic. ;)

Face the facts.

They were equal members, Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven. The others are and were well paid employees. That's the huuuuge difference between members and hired guns. If you can't understand this, I can't help, live in your own world.  : ok:

Agreed. The dude probably wont listen to the Beatles either because Pete Best isnt on the records.

And until he joined GN'R, Slash himself was nothing! That argument is pretty weak in my opinion. The 3 were all very important to the band's success and if you really wanna argue that Slash was more important than Axl, then I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

  better musicians?? umm not sure..who you have in mind, this incarnation of gnr is SOOOOOOOO more technically adept that it's like..... all of them could play in circles around slash and izzy or gilbey (not that they are no good, just not as technical) and they all play with great feeling... so i dunno. btw, i know people in real life that can play like zakk or jake or even slash.. but none that can play like ron or richard, or buckethead

Exactly.


Slash was on the rocket when it took off.



Mmm, okay. Thanks for contributing...  :P

This is getting exciting finally.

If we were to have a single on Monday the 13th of November, how soon would it need to be in the hands of the radio stations?  Do singles get trasnmitted to radio station now electronically (mp3) or are they still shipped out on a cd?

I assume its electronic now, but have no idea.

We are not doing this again!

If you want to talk about the current Vs. the former member, their ability and contribuition to GNR, there's a nice little section we call "Dead Horse".

thats a good point. I think maybe they can do it electronic now. But that would mean no promo singles? I want promo singles  :hihi: :hihi:

earlier this week, I asked (again) about the album to a guy working at Virgin Megastor on Champs-Elys?es in Paris and he told me there is still nothing yet about it. Then I went to FNAC (for the 10th time at least within the last 2 years, lol) and they told me the same thing (still nothing, they don't know when it's comming out). The guy ( working in the Rock section) smilled and told me "Maybe next time!". lol.
I don't know where you live, but nothing has changed in Paris? :hihi:

I emailed one of my contacts at Universal late last week and got this reply back last night for what it's worth:



"Hey Russ,

 

How?s it going?  Yep, pretty crazy that I?ll be dealing with the G N? R record now that I am over at Universal.  So far, I haven?t heard anything that says the record will be out this year.  It might pop on to the schedule at the last minute, but I would think that they would want to make sure they have this record properly set up.  ******* and I will definitely let you know whenever we get a release date.

 

Enjoy the show!  I?ll be out of town for the holiday weekend.

 

Hope all is well!

 

**

The difference being that Tom had an unexpectedly successful album last year, and with his new album looking like a big 3-discs-and-a-souvenier-booklet closet-cleaning exercise (retirement? another decade-long hiatus?) ANTI needs this to be a huge money-maker. And it's hardly as if such an expensive package from a cult artist is going to turn a profit on word-of-mouth alone. ANTI does pretty much all it can to pulblicize their new releases, with all kinds of updates, samples, etc, usually more than a month in advance, for obvious reasons.  Comparing Tom Waits to GNR or  ANTI to Universal/Geffen/Interscope is mind-bogglingly spurious.

What amazes me is that we've heard absolutely nothing from GNR's label confirming or denying that the album is due this year. You'd think that they'd be the one party with nothing to gain from keeping quiet on the issue.

Regardless of whether he's a 'contact' or 'insider'-type, I highly doubt someone that could e-mail you that easily with info, is going to know anything about the album's release.

jmho...

I love the running misconception around here that somehow Axl Rose and Guns N Roses are above the record industry. Like somehow wasting 13 million dollars of record company money is the key to the castle of never having to do anything according the rules. The label is a big business and big business doesn't sink tens of millions into a recording without putting the proper promotion and advertising and planning in place to recoup that money.

so you are saying is correct ......13 million and the record company adds more money to that in promotion?If i was record I would tell axl ...yeah you can put it out , but we are not promoting it.Let's face it , with all the assumned insider information that everybody claims to have and not one lick of truth or tiblit to any album coming out this year.

exactly. what people dont understand, is that it costs LOTS of $$ to promote a cd... just to get a SMALL single on the radio it costs $100,000 I doubt the record company wants to sink MORE $$ into this thing...

they want to get it out and try to make as much $$ back as possible... but promoting it will make them lose more $$

They'll stand to lose a lot more by not doing that. ::)

by not promoting ?I thought 10 + years of saying it was coming out , plus a eddie trunk interveiw , and countless fan websites such as this one , would be enough promotion . If this album drops just imagine the craziness

exactly MrRedfield. and they (interscope/uni/ geffen) most likely know it.
Look at the GH sales. 7 million worldwide and counting despite that little promotion.
That sounds like they have recouped their whole investment in cd already.
Now, the choice is GNR's, I guess.

no one said there wouldnt be promo.. the question is whether or not promo starts when the cd is released or before...

I doubt it will be before because they dont want anything to leak...

I have no idea!
It is all really really interesting though, if only because the Chinese Democracy tour is ongoing, and we haven't heard any statement to contradict that it's coming out this year. Everyone points out the difficulty in this, but it makes you wonder WHY something wouldn't be discussed when we got direct response about Portland AND deleted threads. I have to assume there's a reasoning behind silence about CD. It could be they really just find us all amusing.

who said you were saying there wouldnt be promo. Do you even read my post?
Basically how can you be so sure about what the band think?

this album will get leaked.

jay z's new album got leaked today , and that's not released until 28th (i think).

If the album is coming out this year, Axl and Merck should say it clearly. Axl should say at a show : "Yes, it's coming out this year !" Or if it's not coming out : "No, it's not coming out this year !"

Axl and Merck know that the hardcore fans have been waiting for years, they know we are scrutinizing any sign as maniacs.

At this point, Axl and Merck know if the record will be released this year. But they are not saying much, I think it shows a lack of respect for the fans.

That isn't a lack of respect! That's simply a marketing strategy to avoid leaking or something...

And Axl and Merck stated several times that the album is coming out this year! So why are you complaining?

Axl didn't say anything about the album for a long time now. And Merck is being quite evasive.

Marketing strategy ? Come on ! There are hundreds of people making the albums, printing the booklet, doing the adverts, etc... Everybody knows what's going on, except the fans !

I agree even if it will be 2007 JUST TELL US!!!

Silence is golden. sometime it even glitters.
I still think a silent release would be wicked for a very anticipated album. especially for a loud and grand one.


well after ~ years, you call a couple of months a long time?  :o "One of the tuesdays before jan" evasive?

Axl was clear.

You just have to wait now.

He happens to be a good friend of mine who works for Universal and has been assigned to the album promotion in this area. So yes he would have access to the information and yes he would share it with me that easily.

there it is there, it may not even be out this year , hell it may not even exists , i am lost more then a 2 year old without his binky

i would hardly consider you a 'fan'

If its coming out this year, then im a 2two bit whore. i think it wont be out.

Axl did say that it would be out this year, he said it would definately be out, im so fucking tired of ppl saying that we havent been promised anything, if thats not a promise, then wat is

He did say the album will be out this year at least twice. However he has never in anyway made any promise about a specific date.

clearly http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=83943

Irs logic guys.  They dont want to do any promotion before the album is released because they dont want it to be leaked and downloaded before its released.  Theyll lose more $$$.  I can totally see Axl being VERY anti illegal downloading.  He would hate to see his money go to the internet losers.

Guys. Whether or not it's coming out, I think we've beaten this horse as dead as it'll ever get.

Don't get me wrong. I'm the first guy in line for the album.

BUT...........

People have been played like decks of cards on this forum for years.

Nobody here is an exception.

If they want people to buy the album, people have to know that the album is out. And after the know about it they have to be convinced to buy it. I don't think the first part is hard so they don't have to spend huge amounts of money on it, but the second is tricky.

The people that don't want to buy the album can still download it anyway, even if they have to wait like everyone else. Also keep in mind that unlike record companies would have you believe, the internet actually helps getting people into music.

The concern in people's minds (even the most optimistic ones) is that we don't have a date yet not because they're keeping it secret, but because they still couldn't figure it out. It's not normal to do things like these on extremely short notice, but I still believe anything can happen. This year has been very exciting and it's still far from over as far as GNR is concerned.