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Title: Christianity declining in America Post by: Walk on November 04, 2006, 07:46:49 PM http://www.wsmv.com/family/10210202/detail.html
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Booker Floyd on November 04, 2006, 09:44:53 PM Hopefully
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on November 04, 2006, 10:13:22 PM ...and I thought all the news lately was bad. :) Just kidding, I could care less if it was thriving, as long as it's not shoved in my face or down my throat. :peace:
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 04, 2006, 11:34:02 PM America was built on Christian values and morals.. as long as the values and morals are around.. I really don't care.
However, theres been a dangerous trend recently... anything remotely Christian has been shunned like the plague.. including the original values and morals of the country. We need to find a nice balance. And btw, I don't mean Christian morals as in "Gay's are against god!"... that's actually pretty un-christian if you ask me and only held by a far right "Christian" minority. (Sadly it effects the world's perception of all American Christians..) Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on November 04, 2006, 11:53:37 PM -Jack-? return to the original values and morals of this country??????????????????????
We had this thing called slavery.? We had this deal where we could even bang the female slaves!? Even our great founding father Thomas Jefferson, great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather of George Jefferson from The Jeffersons, had his, I think her name was Sally. We had this deal where we could beat the shit out of our wives.? Yeah, it was alot tamer than what the Bible tells us to do to our wives if when we marry them they turn out not to be virgins.? Yeah, I do believe it tells you to stone them to death.? I really wish we'd return to the morals and values of the 1st century current era. What's with all the seafood houses in this nation of ours?? I do believe the good book, in the very same passage that says homosexuality is an abomination, tells us never to eat seafood. (edit, that's shellfish, sorry!)? ?:rofl: Let's see, what else...Salem, Massachussetts.? We were dunking witches!? Women didn't have the right to vote. "Christian morals and values," what a crock.? Good morals and values are universal across all beliefs and non-beliefs.? Be a good person.? Be kind.? Be tolerant.? If you disagree with a lifestyle, keep it to yourself.? Be a shining example of your faith and/or belief, and if you shine brightly enough, folks may just want to be like you, if that's what floats your boat.? Keep your holy book at home and not in my court room.? Keep your holy book at home and not in my child's science classroom.? Thank you.? ?:peace:? ? Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: SLCPUNK on November 05, 2006, 12:49:25 AM The sooner the better...............
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Bud Fox on November 05, 2006, 01:10:53 AM The original US Constitution was a failure. It made a mockery of the phrase "All men are created equal", and allowed the South to set up a proto-Nazi state, complete with a Master Race and concentration camps. In 1865, this was corrected. Unfortunately it is under attack again by the current administration. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Guns N RockMusic on November 05, 2006, 12:35:47 PM The original US Constitution was a failure. It made a mockery of the phrase "All men are created equal", and allowed the South to set up a proto-Nazi state, complete with a Master Race and concentration camps. In 1865, this was corrected. Unfortunately it is under attack again by the current administration. God forbid if people actually believed in state rights.? Your statement shows how little you know about the civil war and society at the time.? Grant had slaves and he was the leader of the Union Army.? Lincoln didn't even free Northern Slaves in the Emancipation Proclamation.? And you know why, because the American Civil War wasn't about slavery.? That's the bullshit they feed to children to prevent them from looking at the issue objectively.? Everyone is against Slavery, so if Lincoln was freeing the Slaves, whatever he did must have been right.? It doesn't matter how many times he broke the constitution or the fact that he single handedly increased the size of the government more so than anyone else, save maybe FDR.? ? ?Nazis were socialist with a strong central government, they were fucking fascist.? The South was anything but.? This just goes to show how ignorant you are and how certain catch words like Nazis are thrown out to discredit something with out any real understanding of what it means.? I'm just shocked you actually supported a war Republicans got us into.? Maybe in 140 years you'll support the war in Iraq too - with your revisionist and simpleton history of course. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 05, 2006, 06:58:35 PM -Jack- return to the original values and morals of this country?????????????????????? We had this thing called slavery. We had this deal where we could even bang the female slaves! Even our great founding father Thomas Jefferson, great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather of George Jefferson from The Jeffersons, had his, I think her name was Sally. We had this deal where we could beat the shit out of our wives. Yeah, it was alot tamer than what the Bible tells us to do to our wives if when we marry them they turn out not to be virgins. Yeah, I do believe it tells you to stone them to death. I really wish we'd return to the morals and values of the 1st century current era. What's with all the seafood houses in this nation of ours? I do believe the good book, in the very same passage that says homosexuality is an abomination, tells us never to eat seafood. (edit, that's shellfish, sorry!) :rofl: Let's see, what else...Salem, Massachussetts. We were dunking witches! Women didn't have the right to vote. "Christian morals and values," what a crock. Good morals and values are universal across all beliefs and non-beliefs. Be a good person. Be kind. Be tolerant. If you disagree with a lifestyle, keep it to yourself. Be a shining example of your faith and/or belief, and if you shine brightly enough, folks may just want to be like you, if that's what floats your boat. Keep your holy book at home and not in my court room. Keep your holy book at home and not in my child's science classroom. Thank you. :peace: I don't remember slavery, forced sex, wife beating/stoning, or witch burnings mentioned anywhere in the bible, or by Jesus... In fact, didn't he save an adulterer from being stoned? ???. Your confusing the acts of so called "Christians" with actual Christian teachings. And your also confusing the teachings of Jesus Christ with Hebrew laws from the old testament, which by the way, Jesus came to change. You just seem to be confused... "Christian" is really just a label anyways. And yeah, I agree it's sad that "religious" right-wings and twisted people have taken their hidden agendas and put the label "Christian values!" on them... but, really it's just a label. God does not hate gays.. Jesus does not hate gays.. it's one verse in the stupid old testament that millions upon millions of people get hung up on. Ridiculous. And you know what the problem is? So called "Christians" pick and choose shit. "Oh, well, we don't like gays.. so that verse counts... but we do like sea food and we don't want to stone our wives... so, that verse doesn't count!"... it just makes real Christ followers look bad. Last time I checked, Christian values were forgiveness, humbleness, tolerance, and love. That's what Jesus taught. And yes, you are right, good morals and values ARE universal, but in America, these values were brought by Protestant Christians, so, most people just say "Christian values" instead of "Universally taught values." The point is.. if Christianity is declining in America, I feel like MAYBE it's a sign of declining moral decency. I mean, Common decency. (Not just Christian decency ;)) Living in LA.. just seems like people are more restless and violent. I don't know. Maybe that's just here. I understand why you got upset.. but understand, I'm not some preacher guy.. I think most people on the forum would tell ya I'm a pretty cool guy. And this is the first time I've mentioned religion on this forum.. so, don't think I'm trying to be all "Im better than you are cause I'm a saved Christian, HEATHEN!" :hihi: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyways, about the US. Constitution, it was pretty revolutionary.. shame that people were too cowardly to add "no slavery" laws to it. Oh well. But, seriously.. check out a government class if you haven't already, you really get an understanding for all that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -jack Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: The Dog on November 05, 2006, 08:10:55 PM Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for :no:
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 05, 2006, 08:16:59 PM Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for :no: I hope this isn't directed towards me right? And yeah, it's not at all. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Mama Kin on November 05, 2006, 08:56:31 PM America was built on Christian values and morals.. All men are created equal, except Indians and blacks and women, huh? :love:Those Christian morals!! :love: Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Mama Kin on November 05, 2006, 08:57:01 PM Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for? :no: Read the Bible, actually, it is! Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 05, 2006, 08:59:59 PM America was built on Christian values and morals.. All men are created equal, except Indians and blacks and women, huh? :love:Those Christian morals!! :love: Did you even read my post? I understand Axl4Prez2004's responce to my post.. because I really didn't explain.. but your's is just refusal to read. Ignorance actually... Quote I don't remember slavery, forced sex, wife beating/stoning, (EDIT for you Mama Kin: Native American and African American discrimination,) or witch burnings mentioned anywhere in the bible, or by Jesus... In fact, didn't he save an adulterer from being stoned? Huh. Your confusing the acts of so called "Christians" with actual Christian teachings. And your also confusing the teachings of Jesus Christ with Hebrew laws from the old testament, which by the way, Jesus came to change. You just seem to be confused... "Christian" is really just a label anyways. And yeah, I agree it's sad that "religious" right-wings and twisted people have taken their hidden agendas and put the label "Christian values!" on them... but, really it's just a label. God does not hate gays.. Jesus does not hate gays.. it's one verse in the stupid old testament that millions upon millions of people get hung up on. Ridiculous. And you know what the problem is? So called "Christians" pick and choose shit. "Oh, well, we don't like gays.. so that verse counts... but we do like sea food and we don't want to stone our wives... so, that verse doesn't count!"... it just makes real Christ followers look bad. Last time I checked, Christian values were forgiveness, humbleness, tolerance, and love. That's what Jesus taught. And yes, you are right, good morals and values ARE universal, but in America, these values were brought by Protestant Christians, so, most people just say "Christian values" instead of "Universally taught values." The point is.. if Christianity is declining in America, I feel like MAYBE it's a sign of declining moral decency. I mean, Common decency. (Not just Christian decency Wink) Living in LA.. just seems like people are more restless and violent. I don't know. Maybe that's just here. I understand why you got upset.. but understand, I'm not some preacher guy.. I think most people on the forum would tell ya I'm a pretty cool guy. And this is the first time I've mentioned religion on this forum.. so, don't think I'm trying to be all "Im better than you are cause I'm a saved Christian, HEATHEN!" hihi ------------------------------------------------- Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for :no: Read the Bible, actually, it is! Point me towards this verse oh great bible scholar. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Mama Kin on November 05, 2006, 09:08:15 PM America was built by land-owning slave holders who suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote. They fled to Britan to escape such pesky laws such as slave ownership. Yes, they were Christians, but the idea of "Christian morals" is fuckin' laughable. As though they were no decent people before Christ.
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Brody on November 05, 2006, 09:09:10 PM Hoping for more blood shed in Iraq certainly isn't a very Christian thing to hope for :no: Read the Bible, actually, it is! Point me towards this verse oh great bible scholar. Quote Yea I would like to find this one too! All those days at Sunday school and bible camp never once had i heard anything like this! Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Mama Kin on November 05, 2006, 09:13:57 PM 2 Kings 10:23 And Jehu went, and Jehonadab the son of Rechab, into the house of Baal, and said to the worshipers of Baal, Search, and look that there are here with you none of the servants of the LORD, but the worshipers of Baal only. 10:24 And when they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt-offerings, Jehu appointed eighty men without, and said, [If] any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escape, [he that letteth him go], his life [shall be] for the life of him. 10:25 And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt-offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, Go in, [and] slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword; and the guard and the captains cast [them] out, and went to the city of the house of Baal. 10:26 And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them. 10:27 And they broke down the image of Baal, and broke down the house of Baal, and made it a draught-house to this day. 10:28 Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel.
1 Samuel 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember [that] which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid [wait] for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. Deut. 2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones of every city, we left none to remain. 2:35 Only the cattle we took for a prey to ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took. 1 Kings 9:21 Their children that were left after them in the land, whom the children of Israel also were not able utterly to destroy, upon those did Solomon levy a tribute of bond-service to this day. Rev. 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, who hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven, because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. There's a few. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 05, 2006, 09:25:21 PM America was built by land-owning slave holders who suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote. Have you ever read any of the Federalist papers? Anything by the founding fathers? I'd like to see some proof brought up to the table, and then perhaps I can change my mind. If by "class" you mean property owners... then yes, it was suggested that only property owners could vote. But, certainly not SLAVE OWNING property owners only. And even then, who cares if they SUGGESTED that only property owners could vote? In the end, as you may know, they chose to allow others voting rights. Not all.. but its not like you suggest. Anyways... I still don't understand what this has to do with Christian morals or values.. as, it wasn't very Christian. They fled to Britan to escape such pesky laws such as slave ownership. Prove it. Last time I checked they left because of religious persecution. Yes, they were Christians, but the idea of "Christian morals" is fuckin' laughable. As though they were no decent people before Christ. Your putting words into my mouth. If you read my last post you would have READ what I said. It just sounds like you yourself have an agenda... I never said you couldn't be decent and non Christian. Looking forward to your responce. Last time I checked, Christian values were forgiveness, humbleness, tolerance, and love. That's what Jesus taught. And yes, you are right, good morals and values ARE universal, but in America, these values were brought by Protestant Christians, so, most people just say "Christian values" instead of "Universally taught values." 2 Kings 10:23 And Jehu went, and Jehonadab the son of Rechab, into the house of Baal, and said to the worshipers of Baal, Search, and look that there are here with you none of the servants of the LORD, but the worshipers of Baal only. 10:24 And when they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt-offerings, Jehu appointed eighty men without, and said, [If] any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escape, [he that letteth him go], his life [shall be] for the life of him. 10:25 And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt-offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, Go in, [and] slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword; and the guard and the captains cast [them] out, and went to the city of the house of Baal. 10:26 And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them. 10:27 And they broke down the image of Baal, and broke down the house of Baal, and made it a draught-house to this day. 10:28 Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel. 1 Samuel 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember [that] which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid [wait] for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. Deut. 2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones of every city, we left none to remain. 2:35 Only the cattle we took for a prey to ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took. 1 Kings 9:21 Their children that were left after them in the land, whom the children of Israel also were not able utterly to destroy, upon those did Solomon levy a tribute of bond-service to this day. Rev. 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, who hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven, because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. There's a few. All your quotes prove what? That Christians rejoice in killing? ::) I don't think so... Also, notice where all your quotes (except one) are from.. the Old Testament... I really don't put too much into that. Even then, they don't show any rejoice in the killing. As for your quote from Revelations... what does that have to do with Christians rejoicing the bloodshed in Iraq? You seem misinformed.. I don't know what eles to say. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: The Dog on November 05, 2006, 09:34:59 PM I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as:
love they neighbor don't lie don't steal dont' kill be a good person be forgiving etc.... I don't think he means the religous rights version of "christian values". those nut jobs have hijacked the religion and turned it into something bad. I think thats where all the anger is coming from in this thread. whether you are religous or not, you can't argue that the values i listed above are bad. I think thats what Jack was referring to. Correct me if I'm wrong of course. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Stones on November 05, 2006, 10:23:45 PM 1. You base too much of your opinions and view of the world on these polls and message boards.
2. This poll was an online poll, and didn't account against people clicking twice. so basically this poll is useless. 3. Wonder what a poll taken of all the residents in hell, I wonder how many of them would believe. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Dr. Blutarsky on November 05, 2006, 11:24:53 PM Just wait a few weeks when christmas is approaching. Should be interesting to see when someone gets offended again by a nativity scene.
Let people make their own judgements and choices without shoving religious ideals down peoples throats, but to allow a public display in observance of one religious holiday and not another is wrong. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Kid A on November 05, 2006, 11:47:34 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity.
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Dr. Blutarsky on November 06, 2006, 12:01:12 AM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. Blaming the Holocaust on Christianity has no basis. Blame Hitler for that. Hitler was into the occult, not Christianity. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Kid A on November 06, 2006, 12:29:25 AM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. Blaming the Holocaust on Christianity has no basis. Blame Hitler for that. Hitler was into the occult, not Christianity. Is there a souce other than comedy/horror and Christian made films? Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 06, 2006, 12:35:58 AM I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as: love they neighbor don't lie don't steal dont' kill be a good person be forgiving etc.... I don't think he means the religous rights version of "christian values". those nut jobs have hijacked the religion and turned it into something bad. I think thats where all the anger is coming from in this thread. whether you are religous or not, you can't argue that the values i listed above are bad. I think thats what Jack was referring to. Correct me if I'm wrong of course. Yeah exactly. I'm not talking about the hidden agenda "Christians" who play off emotion and guilt trips. The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. The Holocaust thanks to Christianity? The holocaust is thanks to a crazy bastard named Hitler. And don't "Hitler was a Christian" me... I can say "I'm a llama" and not be a llama. As for the Holy Wars.. I'd blame that on The Roman Catholic Church... which, well... really just another example of hidden agenda "Christians." (That wasn't a bash against Catholics.. just the institution and administration of the Church in those times.. talk about corruption and lies. Really not Christian at all..) Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Chelle on November 06, 2006, 02:40:54 AM It's very sad to me, personally.
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Bud Fox on November 06, 2006, 02:50:03 AM The original US Constitution was a failure. It made a mockery of the phrase "All men are created equal", and allowed the South to set up a proto-Nazi state, complete with a Master Race and concentration camps. In 1865, this was corrected. Unfortunately it is under attack again by the current administration. God forbid if people actually believed in state rights. Your statement shows how little you know about the civil war and society at the time. Tell Bud Fox that "all men created equal" was not a complete farce leading up to the civil war, and he'll call you a liar. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Dr. Blutarsky on November 06, 2006, 08:14:35 AM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. Blaming the Holocaust on Christianity has no basis. Blame Hitler for that. Hitler was into the occult, not Christianity. Is there a souce other than comedy/horror and Christian made films? Study your history. Youll find a source there. Christians are not responsible for the holocaust. Maybe the Iranian government would tell you the holocaust never happened. Dont use them as a source. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: The Dog on November 06, 2006, 10:15:00 AM Dudes, don't even responsd to this nonsense that christianity led to the holocaust. just retarded.
I am no fan of the radical right christians/evangelicals - but nobody can argue and say that "christian values" are a bad thing. If you are PRO murder, lying, cheating, stealing, etc.... then maybe you can argue it. haha. I think this thread is geting off topic, its not really about christianity but the "decline of moral values" in america..... keep that in mind before you start blaming christians for shit that happened decades or even centuries ago..... For all the bad things religion has done, there are plenty of good things. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Izzy on November 06, 2006, 02:00:03 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. .... Wow. Just....wow Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories? Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire? Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote.... Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on November 06, 2006, 02:20:38 PM I just got back this morning from the Jersey show. ?For some reason, being on 3 1/2 hours sleep, post-show, I feel really good! ?If you get drunk, drink plenty o' water like me boys!
Now, for -Jack-, I apologize for being a dick. ?You sound like someone I consider to be a "cool Christian." ?I mean that out of respect. ?You made some nice posts in this thread, and I'm sorry I lumped you in with all the intolerant right-wing Christian nut-jobs. ?I have all the respect in the world for Jesus. ?Personally, I believe he was a very good man who for the most part did his best to help this world. ?Unfortunately, many have used his message to further their own agendas, their prizes being power and money. ? HannaHat mentioned these values earlier: love they neighbor don't lie don't steal dont' kill be a good person be forgiving etc.... Those are great values regardless of your spiritual/religious background. ?Now I'm no expert on the Bible, not even close, but weren't the Ten Commandments Old Testament? ?Whenever I punch up a ridiculously silly Old Testament quote I get the whole, "well that's old testament before Jesus came and made it al b etter in the new testament." ?Isn't worshipping false idols #1 because the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway??? ? ??? Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: pilferk on November 06, 2006, 02:40:01 PM People need to realize that religious extremists are just that, and not representative of an entire set of beliefs or an entire culture.....there is nothing inherently wrong with Christianity...just as there is nothing inherently wrong with the Muslim religion or the Buddhist religion or...any other set of core values that attempt to preach being good to your fellow man.? The problem is taking any of those doctines to an extreme, and attempting to force others to live "their" (meaning the extremists) way of life. Not every Christian advocates the bombing of abortion centers. Not every Muslim advocates blowing up buses full of commuters.
And that goes for BOTH sides of most of the political arguments, I might add. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Mal Brossard on November 06, 2006, 03:12:55 PM I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as: love thy neighbor don't lie don't steal don't kill be a good person be forgiving etc. So why exactly are these CHRISTIAN values rather than Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or Pagan values? Someone care to field this one? Could it be possibly as Axl4Pres2004 said "the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway"? Just present it as "Christian" values and say "well see, we have the same values, just go along with what we say, it's all besically the same" when really they aren't the same. That's why Christmas is in December rather than the more historically likely date of mid-February-- it was made to coincide with the festival of Saturnalia when the Roman Empire converted to Catholicism. I have no problem with the decline of Christianity as the religion has come to be in the present times, marked by anti-gay, anti-porn, anti-abortion, pro-war, pro-school prayer, pro-Israel extremists, ones who equate the Christian religion with morality. And before you go saying I'm lumping the bad in with the good, ask the average person to name some Christian leaders. They'll likely name off great folks like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, James Dobson, Randall Terry, and Tim LaHaye. Maybe even Bush, Santorum, and a few politicians. Frankly, if I were a true Christian, one who is opposed to the religious right, I would be happy to hear about a declining of the religion in this country. Maybe it would lead to an increase in the good Christians or even an increase in other religions. The world needs an increase in spirituality and morality, not necessarily an increase in religion. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: The Dog on November 06, 2006, 03:26:25 PM I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as: love thy neighbor don't lie don't steal don't kill be a good person be forgiving etc. So why exactly are these CHRISTIAN values rather than Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or Pagan values? Someone care to field this one? I agree with you, those values are not restricted to only christians and are present in all of the major religions in the world. Again, I think some people are focusing too much on his use of the term "christian values" rather then what he was really trying to get at.... i also agree with your take on the religious right, they are assholes. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 06, 2006, 05:45:31 PM I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as: love thy neighbor don't lie don't steal don't kill be a good person be forgiving etc. So why exactly are these CHRISTIAN values rather than Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or Pagan values? Someone care to field this one? No, you are right. And yes, you are right, good morals and values ARE universal, but in America, these values were brought by Protestant Christians, so, most people <edit: most people in the U.S> just say "Christian values" instead of "Universally taught values." I was only calling them Christian values because the thread was "Christianity declining in America"... but, the values are universal. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Kid A on November 06, 2006, 08:21:33 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. .... Wow. Just....wow Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories? Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire? Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote.... Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 06, 2006, 08:24:56 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. .... Wow. Just....wow Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories? Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire? Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote.... Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil. Well.. show your proof. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Kid A on November 06, 2006, 08:29:09 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. .... Wow. Just....wow Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories? Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire? Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote.... Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil. Well.. show your proof. Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 06, 2006, 11:40:25 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. .... Wow. Just....wow Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories? Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire? Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote.... Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil. Well.. show your proof. Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then. Well if you can't back up your claims then why is anybody going to believe you? Seems like you just avoid answering the question by being all defensive and moody. And like I said, if you can show me something that backs your claim up.. then I'll have to reconsider. Interested in seeing your response. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Surfrider on November 07, 2006, 11:48:51 AM I think Jack is referring to Christian Values as: love thy neighbor don't lie don't steal don't kill be a good person be forgiving etc. So why exactly are these CHRISTIAN values rather than Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or Pagan values?? Someone care to field this one? Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: WARose on November 07, 2006, 12:42:47 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. the holocaust?? :hihi: you`re mixing something up there.... believe me : ok: if you read the source, it says only 11% say there is no god by the way... Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on November 07, 2006, 03:28:37 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. the holocaust?? :hihi: you`re mixing something up there.... believe me : ok: if you read the source, it says only 11% say there is no god by the way... I think it's incorrect to put all the blame on "Christianity" when it comes to holy wars. It's religion itself, in all of its organized forms that sets the stage for war. The 11% that say there is no god are just as misguided in my eyes as the % that says there definitely is a god or are gods. Nobody has proof so a definitive yes or a definitive no are both incorrect. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: kathryn2662 on November 07, 2006, 04:39:13 PM Those are great values regardless of your spiritual/religious background. ?Now I'm no expert on the Bible, not even close, but weren't the Ten Commandments Old Testament? ?Whenever I punch up a ridiculously silly Old Testament quote I get the whole, "well that's old testament before Jesus came and made it al b etter in the new testament." ?Isn't worshipping false idols #1 because the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway??? ? ??? well to clear up what -Jack- means by that is that Jesus was the filter to the old testamant and new. The Bible is an overall respresentation of what life is life, it repsents a life that was brought down to be re-born again into new life. The new testament is new life, the reason because is the fall of mankind after the first sin led us to old testament laws, God didnt like not being able to have direct relationship with people so He tore the veil that was between, which was Jesus. We are to get taught and learn from the old testament, but we dont live under the law of the old testament, whatever we get from the old testament you have to always trace it through the "filter", some things remain the same, some things alter in small way, some in big, all to better existing way that was. So yes, the ten commandments were made in the old testament, but crossed through the filter and they still remain the same. It's like when you dig up gold, you have to sift it and let things fall out and then you have to rinse the gold even chip it into it's most valuable look like a ring for instance, that doesn't mean it wasnt gold along- you just have to sift it to it's best potential to where it's better valued and desirable to those who will want it. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Communist China on November 07, 2006, 04:44:23 PM People are fed up with the polarization of religion and politics. They aren't voting because the only candidates that get nominated are the crazies and they aren't going to church because only the wackos get publicity.
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Kid A on November 07, 2006, 04:50:54 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. .... Wow. Just....wow Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories? Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire? Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote.... Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil. Well.. show your proof. Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then. Well if you can't back up your claims then why is anybody going to believe you? Seems like you just avoid answering the question by being all defensive and moody. And like I said, if you can show me something that backs your claim up.. then I'll have to reconsider. Interested in seeing your response. Well since you will just deny it anyway here?s something else: The Inquisition was started and maintained by the Catholic Church during a time when Catholicism was the only Christian denomination (that is, if you were Christian, you were a Catholic). Christians were responsible for the expulsion and deaths of thousands of Jews and Muslims throughout Europe, many of which died of being burned at the stake, poor prison conditions, starvation during expulsion, and other types of torture and execution. According to historical records, non-Christians who repented where strangled and then burned and those who didn't repent were burned alive. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on November 07, 2006, 06:27:36 PM Those are great values regardless of your spiritual/religious background. ?Now I'm no expert on the Bible, not even close, but weren't the Ten Commandments Old Testament? ?Whenever I punch up a ridiculously silly Old Testament quote I get the whole, "well that's old testament before Jesus came and made it al b etter in the new testament." ?Isn't worshipping false idols #1 because the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway??? ? ??? well to clear up what -Jack- means by that is that Jesus was the filter to the old testamant and new.? The Bible is an overall respresentation of what life is life, it repsents a life that was brought down to be re-born again into new life.? The new testament is new life, the reason because is the fall of mankind after the first sin led us to old testament laws, God didnt like not being able to have direct relationship with people so He tore the veil that was between, which was Jesus.? We are to get taught and learn from the old testament, but we dont live under the law of the old testament, whatever we get from the old testament you have to always trace it through the "filter", some things remain the same, some things alter in small way, some in big, all to better existing way that was.? So yes, the ten commandments were made in the old testament, but crossed through the filter and they still remain the same.? It's like when you dig up gold, you have to sift it and let things fall out and then you have to rinse the gold even chip it into it's most valuable look like a ring for instance, that doesn't mean it wasnt gold along- you just have to sift it to it's best potential to where it's better valued and desirable to those who will want it. Rocket Queen, Thanks for the response...my only concern is with who's doing the sifting. ;) In 2000 years we've learned alot about our origins, the animals, the plants, even the planet and solar sytem itself...some sifters would have you believe that science is wrong. I find this unforgivable and flat-out ignorant. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 07, 2006, 07:02:04 PM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. .... Wow. Just....wow Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories? Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire? Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote.... Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil. Well.. show your proof. Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then. Well if you can't back up your claims then why is anybody going to believe you? Seems like you just avoid answering the question by being all defensive and moody. And like I said, if you can show me something that backs your claim up.. then I'll have to reconsider. Interested in seeing your response. Well since you will just deny it anyway here?s something else: The Inquisition was started and maintained by the Catholic Church during a time when Catholicism was the only Christian denomination (that is, if you were Christian, you were a Catholic). Christians were responsible for the expulsion and deaths of thousands of Jews and Muslims throughout Europe, many of which died of being burned at the stake, poor prison conditions, starvation during expulsion, and other types of torture and execution. According to historical records, non-Christians who repented where strangled and then burned and those who didn't repent were burned alive. Well, yeah I know about the Inquisition. Terrible thing for the church to do. But it was really just power hungry corrupt Church leaders. So while, they technically represented Christianity.. it's not really "Christian" or Christ-like of them. Like I said.. "Christian" is very much a blanket label... just like "liberal" "conservative" ect. It's not a real descriptive term. You can say your a Christian.. and really not be much of a Christ follower. Anyways.. it seems as if, once again, you have no proof for your earlier accusations (Christianity causing the holocaust and The Holy Wars) and have tried to take the attention off your claims. Are you going to admit you were just spouting out shit with no basis? Or do you have some proof? Because I'm still waiting for some evidence. Looking forward to you saying "Well you'd never admit it anyways" or something to that effect. Show some evidence and I will. I think I've been more than reasonable during this conversation. So put up or shut up. : ok: Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: kathryn2662 on November 07, 2006, 07:47:18 PM Those are great values regardless of your spiritual/religious background. ?Now I'm no expert on the Bible, not even close, but weren't the Ten Commandments Old Testament? ?Whenever I punch up a ridiculously silly Old Testament quote I get the whole, "well that's old testament before Jesus came and made it al b etter in the new testament." ?Isn't worshipping false idols #1 because the writers wanted to send the message that it's either christianity or the highway??? ? ??? no problem :) .... I should have mentioned that haha- the One who did the sifting was Jesus, that's who I meant by the One who tore the veil and the One who is the filter, He did the sifting with the blood He shed on the cross. It was His sacrifice so that we may have life and have it more abundant in all things, so we can have a direct relationship with God. All we have to do is take that gift, He already did the work- He already did the sifting and the cleansing. Now where people screw it up is they fail to actualy get to know the word, you have to grow in God's wisdom (which you dont get wise, it's an action word in this case that is daily given to you as you ask and read and live), in order to really understand all the hidden meanings that so many people only look to the surface of- that's why God's word has been twisted so much, time after time you hear verses that have almost become cliche' because it's been twisted into something horrible, people start listening to "christians" as apposed to growing in the Word themselves and hearing it straight from their Father themself on what the Word IS and MEANS. It's the people who put it through the filter and sifter who fail to realize that you dont make up your own conclusion, that Jesus already has the final answer written in the new testament, where people screw up finding the fresh new piece of gold is when they have lack of knowledge and wisdom and just point to any verse and make up their own conclusions. God wants us to practice the sifting so we can grow and understand His word, but the One who has already done the sifiting Who already gave the answer, is Jesus, finding the answer is part of growth and it becomes easier and easier to understand the more you grow in Him and the more He comes alive in you showing you and revealing Himself to you, and that fruit is evident in people. Im a christian, and I as well as any christian I know can be the first to admitt that the reason why people turn away from God and and get a bad image of God is because of "christians", at the same time the reason why people's lives have been transformed into the most amazing loving fufilling lives with a vibrant relationship with their Saivor- is because of christians. If you dont know your word and what God says about YOU, then you will never know to recognize which christian is really not and which is. It's all the religious mean christians out there who arent walking and serving in the way christianity is supposed to be that turn it into a disgusting hippocritcal look- and unforunatly real followers get the penalty as well as Jesus, it's the ones who turn a relationship into religion. People arent intresting in what people have to say, they look at how people live, and it's unfortunate that it's people who have stopped others from knowing God just based on how they live and how they treat people, it's sad that people base their own christianity resting on the faith and life of someone else's- see their hypocracy- and choose to leave it, when your own faith should not be based on someone else's faith because all people are human and christianity is not God-like- it's God-living. The numbers right now might show a Christianity decline in America, but I can fully and strongly say that that is changing NOW, my church as well as so many across this country see an average of 30 people giving their lives to Jesus per service. Our college career age holds over 2000 with rapid growth, coming from a church who's influencing and changing the world- hillsong, who holds a congregation of 22,000 on the weekend service alone. All because people are catching on the realness of God instead of that fake garbage that "christians" are feeding people, God's raising up a generation who walk in who He is, not TALK in who they make up. Sorry to go on and on, haha christianity just happens to be my favorite topic. :) well to clear up what -Jack- means by that is that Jesus was the filter to the old testamant and new.? The Bible is an overall respresentation of what life is life, it repsents a life that was brought down to be re-born again into new life.? The new testament is new life, the reason because is the fall of mankind after the first sin led us to old testament laws, God didnt like not being able to have direct relationship with people so He tore the veil that was between, which was Jesus.? We are to get taught and learn from the old testament, but we dont live under the law of the old testament, whatever we get from the old testament you have to always trace it through the "filter", some things remain the same, some things alter in small way, some in big, all to better existing way that was.? So yes, the ten commandments were made in the old testament, but crossed through the filter and they still remain the same.? It's like when you dig up gold, you have to sift it and let things fall out and then you have to rinse the gold even chip it into it's most valuable look like a ring for instance, that doesn't mean it wasnt gold along- you just have to sift it to it's best potential to where it's better valued and desirable to those who will want it. Rocket Queen, ? Thanks for the response...my only concern is with who's doing the sifting.? ;) In 2000 years we've learned alot about our origins, the animals, the plants, even the planet and solar sytem itself...some sifters would have you believe that science is wrong.? I find this unforgivable and flat-out ignorant. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Kid A on November 08, 2006, 01:32:38 AM The Holocaust and the Holy Wars, all thanks to Christianity. .... Wow. Just....wow Dont ya think maybe the Holocaust had slightly more to do with the Nazis looking for a ''solution'' to large numbers of jews in occupied territories? Dont ya' think the Crusades might have been a response to Islamic forces attacking the Byzantine empire? Please tell me you aren't allowed to vote.... Sorry forgive my blasphemy, the idea that I would even suggest that Christians are guilty of any crimes is obviously evil. Well.. show your proof. Why bother? I give up; I'll just believe all the stuff Father Ted tells me then. Well if you can't back up your claims then why is anybody going to believe you? Seems like you just avoid answering the question by being all defensive and moody. And like I said, if you can show me something that backs your claim up.. then I'll have to reconsider. Interested in seeing your response. Well since you will just deny it anyway here?s something else: The Inquisition was started and maintained by the Catholic Church during a time when Catholicism was the only Christian denomination (that is, if you were Christian, you were a Catholic). Christians were responsible for the expulsion and deaths of thousands of Jews and Muslims throughout Europe, many of which died of being burned at the stake, poor prison conditions, starvation during expulsion, and other types of torture and execution. According to historical records, non-Christians who repented where strangled and then burned and those who didn't repent were burned alive. Well, yeah I know about the Inquisition. Terrible thing for the church to do. But it was really just power hungry corrupt Church leaders. So while, they technically represented Christianity.. it's not really "Christian" or Christ-like of them. Like I said.. "Christian" is very much a blanket label... just like "liberal" "conservative" ect. It's not a real descriptive term. You can say your a Christian.. and really not be much of a Christ follower. Anyways.. it seems as if, once again, you have no proof for your earlier accusations (Christianity causing the holocaust and The Holy Wars) and have tried to take the attention off your claims. Are you going to admit you were just spouting out shit with no basis? Or do you have some proof? Because I'm still waiting for some evidence. Looking forward to you saying "Well you'd never admit it anyways" or something to that effect. Show some evidence and I will. I think I've been more than reasonable during this conversation. So put up or shut up.? : ok: You can't keep saying there not really Christians cause that?s a lame argument, you have the Internet yourself so if you want to see proof use a search engine. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: kathryn2662 on November 08, 2006, 09:01:54 AM I've been tryin to read yalls posts and make some sort of sense out of them, even the smallest amount. I think, which I could be wrong, are you trying to say that it's in the christian belief to kill and do horrible things like the haulocost and stoning and backing those statements up with examples of people's actions who claim to be christians? The christian belief is a relationship, not rules- those are a choice you make, the christian belief is and ONLY is the life of Jesus, who christian are to aim to be like and we try and the only way for that to be successful is by having a relationship with Him because the more you draw near the more He comes alive in you and that reflects out of you- where some how along the way people have mistaked that for 'if you arent doing EXACTLY what He did and would do then you arent a christian', being a christian is being HUMAN making mistakes and confessing your need for a Savior, look at every person in the Bible, all misfits chosen by God to do His work. King David was an adulterer and murdered an innocent man to cover his mistake, but He was fit in God's eyes because He said "he's a man after My own heart", the christian belief isnt to committ adultery and murder BUT by grace He is forgiven to overcome and live for God.
Abraham was old, Jacob was insecure, Leah was unattractive, Joseph was abused, Moses stuttered and had a temper, Gideon was poor, Sampson was codependent, Rahab was immoral, David had an affair murdered and all kinds of family problems, Elijah was suicidal, Jeremiah was depressed, Jonah was reluctant, Naomi was a widow, John the Baptist was eccentric to say the least, Peter was impulsive and hot-tempered, Martha worried alot, the Samaritan woman had several failed marriages, Zacchaeus was unpopular, Thomas had doubts, Paul had poor health and murdered christians in the past, and Timothy was timid. This is quite a variety of misfits, but God used each of them in His service. Because the christian way is not about doing or being perfect, it's about being human just like everyone else, making mistakes, then forth confessing your need of a Savior, growing in relationship with Him to be more like Him, doesnt mean you cant screw up along the way. So you cant use peoples mistakes and bad living to define what christianity is. Some people stop their christianity at salvation, and dont grow and live in it, those are the christians you dont want to look at for example of christianity- they are going to Heaven but arent doing the call and will of God on their life. You can look to real christians on what's is like to be a christian, but you are to look to God to see how to be a christian and what it means and it should be. So those examples of "christian murderers" dont work, christian is what they so call happen to call themselves- and they might or might not go to Heaven, but it doesnt mean that that is what Christianity beliefs are. It's like saying, Im a white theif, yeah Im white- that's true, but doesnt mean all white people are theifs and doesnt mean it's in the heart of all white people to be a theif. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Annie on November 08, 2006, 03:25:06 PM I really like that Texas preacher Joel Osteen, he preaches from the heart. I like to listen to him but I still believe in reincarnation and talking to dead people.
Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: kathryn2662 on November 08, 2006, 10:48:47 PM I really like that Texas preacher Joel Osteen, he preaches from the heart. I like to listen to him but? I still believe in reincarnation and talking to dead people. I love hearin him preach too :) .... he's an amazing pastor Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on November 08, 2006, 10:52:40 PM Rocket Queen, I think you summed up alot of the problems I have with Christianity in your post unfortunately. ?Call me crazy, but if there is a heaven and hell...I don't care if you "give your life to Jesus Christ," or "repent for all your sins," if you kill somebody or lie, cheat, and steal a whole hell of alot, you'd be in hell. ?
But...and a very big but...I'm talkin' a J-Lo size butt...how do you wrestle with the confounding problem of how we become what we are. ?Is it a murderer's fault that he or she was never taught impulse control? ?Is it a sexual molester's fault that he or she was taught to fondle from an early age? ?Is it a cold, hateful man or woman's fault if he or she is from a cold and unloving home? ?In my eyes no. ?It's just one of the reasons I personally do not believe in a heaven or hell. ? I believe this is the only life we've got, and dammit, you've got to use it wisely. ?Try to make the most responsible decisions you can. ?Plan for the future. ?Think things through. ?Try to do the right thing based on how it will impact your fellow man. ?Be nice. ?Be tolerant. ?Be strong to prevent others from taking away your rights. I'm always amazed when I ask a religious friend of mine what he would do if there was no God. ?To him, with no God, there is no reason why he just couldn't act on every animal impulse he ever had. ?If nobody's looking, why not take what you want? ?In his eyes, God is always watching, and in the long run heaven's the pay-off. ?Looking at it from a political perspective, the concept of God becomes an ally to order. ?I think it's a shame most people haven't matured enough to realize that being a good person doesn't have a damn thing to do with belief or non-belief in God, or worship or non-worship of God. ?I don't know if there's a or are God/s or not, but I live a good life. ?I actually think it's more noble to lead a good life without the expectation of a pay-off (heaven) at the end of the road. ? :yes: ? Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: -Jack- on November 09, 2006, 12:03:03 AM You can't keep saying there not really Christians cause that?s a lame argument, you have the Internet yourself so if you want to see proof use a search engine. What a cop out. You just make big claims and then can't back it up. Like I said... prove it. Back up your talk with substance. But I see you've deleted your account. Anyways, in the real world when you say something like that you better be able to prove it or you end up being looked at like a fool. Later bro. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: kathryn2662 on November 09, 2006, 08:32:34 AM Rocket Queen, I think you summed up alot of the problems I have with Christianity in your post unfortunately. ?Call me crazy, but if there is a heaven and hell...I don't care if you "give your life to Jesus Christ," or "repent for all your sins," if you kill somebody or lie, cheat, and steal a whole hell of alot, you'd be in hell. ? But...and a very big but...I'm talkin' a J-Lo size butt...how do you wrestle with the confounding problem of how we become what we are. ?Is it a murderer's fault that he or she was never taught impulse control? ?Is it a sexual molester's fault that he or she was taught to fondle from an early age? ?Is it a cold, hateful man or woman's fault if he or she is from a cold and unloving home? ?In my eyes no. ?It's just one of the reasons I personally do not believe in a heaven or hell. ? I believe this is the only life we've got, and dammit, you've got to use it wisely. ?Try to make the most responsible decisions you can. ?Plan for the future. ?Think things through. ?Try to do the right thing based on how it will impact your fellow man. ?Be nice. ?Be tolerant. ?Be strong to prevent others from taking away your rights. I'm always amazed when I ask a religious friend of mine what he would do if there was no God. ?To him, with no God, there is no reason why he just couldn't act on every animal impulse he ever had. ?If nobody's looking, why not take what you want? ?In his eyes, God is always watching, and in the long run heaven's the pay-off. ?Looking at it from a political perspective, the concept of God becomes an ally to order. ?I think it's a shame most people haven't matured enough to realize that being a good person doesn't have a damn thing to do with belief or non-belief in God, or worship or non-worship of God. ?I don't know if there's a or are God/s or not, but I live a good life. ?I actually think it's more noble to lead a good life without the expectation of a pay-off (heaven) at the end of the road. ? :yes: ? well that's kind of exactly, in a way, the point I was making. Doing good or bad things is not what makes you a christian, you can kill and steal and ect.. and still go to Heaven, and being a christian isnt about how good and how many rules you can follow, christians do good because of DAILY choices they consciencely have to choose to do and work on through a process. In a sense, no it's not those peoples faults that they werent raised in a way that they werent able to control their actions so they murdered, that's where mercy and compasson come in, and a provided way to renew the mind and take accountability for their actions to change. Heaven is not the ticket it to all the good and righteous people, God recognizes we are human and our nature to sin, Heaven is for all those who call on His name in faith, it's as simple as that. We have become as we are because we are at a fallen state. When man was first created we were sinless and had open relationship with God, but when man sinned was the fall of mankind, so God understands that it is in our nature- by human nature to sin, but it's up to us to take accountability to DAILY choose the right way, when we slip and fall a thousand times God has mercy enough to pick us back up as many times as we need, it's not about where you are on the road as long as you are moving forward. He doesnt look at a sinner an think "oh my gosh! Im shocked!" He knows what mankind is like and that is why He is compassionate to forgive a murderer even if they murdered 1000 times, just how He called Paul to do His ministry and called him WHILE hew as murdering christians, it was Pauls CHOICE to leave that life. As far as your beliefs, Im not referring to that, Im just saying what is fact in christianity. And Im not religious, that's the whole reason why Jesus came, to kill religion. Baisicaly you can sum up christianity into this, Love God, Love life, Love people. Title: Re: Christianity declining in America Post by: Mr. Dick Purple on November 09, 2006, 09:03:24 AM Things like this thread is the reason why religion sucks, I only hope people behave better with or without christianity, islam, budaism or whatever other religion you want to be part of.
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