Here Today... Gone To Hell!

So...   I don't think that we will just have CD be released without any notice.

As crazy as it sounds, I think in order for it to come out this year we'll likely be getting only a 2 week release notice.

Does anyone think that this could/would happen?

2 weeks notice? ?It's not like quitting a job. ?It might show up with no promotion. ?Whether that will happen remains to be seen, but it is possible.

No and Yes.

That would be a disaster IMO.  :no:

It could be, but every thread turns into the same debate, so we'll leave it at that.

Anything might happen... but this album is one which DESERVES promotion.  Not everyone in the world knows this album is 13 years in the works.  The record company wouldn't pass up the opportunity to promote that.  So no, there's no way it's going to just show up on the shelves with no notice.

However, TWO WEEKS, is something that might work.  Condense all of the promotion into two weeks and people see it everywhere they turn for a little while until it strikes their curiosity and they think that the album is worth checking out.  It's unusual, but so is the band and album.  I think that if it does come out this year it will have the 2 week promotion thing.

2 weeks, 2 days or 2 months prior to release and promotion is sort of a joke...or a punchline to one.  That's not to say they shouldn't/couldn't premote the album before release....I'm just not convinced how effective the promotion would be (and thus, how effective the $$ spent would be). This album is not only legendary in status, it's legendarily LATE and legindarily POSTPONED.  The best thing, IMHO, for GnR to do is release it THEN the label should spend the bulk of their promotional dollars earmarked for it.  Because then, and only then, will consumers believe it's out and actually pay attention to the hype.

I already reported it to the mods.


Anyways, though, when you think about it..... the tour itself is a kind of promotion, too.  People all over Europe and the US are suddenly hearing the new music live: the best way to hear it. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to drop the album towards the end of the tour instead of the beginning?

It's unusual but since the stance is still that the album will be out this year... two weeks notice seems like it could work, and damn well.

I dunno about that... there's never been official promotion for the album before.  If I saw best buy promoting it and commercials on TV and all that junk, I'd think most would believe it's finally coming out.

Now... if they promote it and then not have it come out.... i can see a reason why people would be skeptical it's really coming out the next time they promote it.

Why would you report this to the mods? ?There's a billion other topics on here talking about the same thing, and I guarantee that this thread will be deleted later tonight. ?Sorry, but it IS a dead-horse!

"Why would you report this to the mods?"
According to the rules you are not allowed to post "simply to complain about a thread"

"I guarantee that this thread will be deleted later tonight."
Then why post??????  If you're so sure then why not let the mods do their thing and stop spamming in threads like right now.

There were flyers printed, with a mass market retailer (best buy, actually, I think, maybe Fry's?..someone can refresh on the specifics), a few years back ('02? I can't remember the year now....old timers brain), with CD info in them.? ? I'm sure someone here can wake my brain up with the specifics.

In addition, there have been numerous reports from within the GnR camp that the album would be out "soon", "this year", etc, etc dating back to the late 90's (and Axl's infamous MTV fax).

While it has rarely or never been done, I think the "no promotion" idea would work with this album.  I mean, cmon, everyone has heard of the fabled "CHINESE DEMOCRACY". 

And just think what would happen if, say, next Tuesday, it just showed up on the shelves when the stores opened.  Within an hour, it would be the talk of every pop/rock radio station in the country.  There would be a mention on every newscast on the evening news.  And the press on MTV/VHI/and every cable entertainment channel would be enormous.  There would be stories of people leaving their offices to rush to the store during their lunch hour to buy this album ( I know I will).  It simply will spread like wildfire.  And it will create a curiosity beyond anything an advertised release has ever done.

Would it work?  I don't know.  But the concept is interesting enough that I would love to see it tried.  It could ONLY work with a band that is a big name, and had unusual circumstances surrounding the album (maybe U2, Rolling Stones, not many other bands could even ATTEMPT it).  Add to that the fact that it is the most talked about NON-ALBUM in history, which now has come to fruition, and this would work.  I truly believe it.

I think this album could be released with no prior promotion, and I think it could succeed with that strategy.
I'm sure we'll be told the release date beforehand, but I'm not expecting a major advertising campaign. I think it's much more likely, especially considering recent events, that we'll see a cross-promotion strategy where GNR/CD are featured in commercials or promotional activities for other products (such as, for example, say, Harley Davidson). And if the album proves to be successful, then we might see the label pump some money into advertising it. Since we've already heard the label whine about how much money the album has already cost, and since the public responds better to "the #1 album in America!" commercials than "Coming Soon" ads, this seems like the obvious, cowardly, "best fit" strategy.

Doubtful...here's what is left...

November 7th...too soon...never happen

November 14th...still too soon...maybe internet only or single

November 21st...we've already been told by Merck this is no (unless he's being deceptive)

November 28th...possible...but going up against Jay-Z's return would be tough

Decmeber 5th...doubtful...Eminem is also interscope.  There's no way they would put their two biggest artists up against each other.

December 12th...still plenty of time for holiday shopping...would give ample promotion time.

December 19th...coincides with their LA appearance...would be a perfect opportunity to make plenty of radio and TV guest appearances.  at this point the most likely...

December 26th...day after Xmas...what would be the point?

2007?

If it's 100% sure that it's coming out, then what do they have to gain by not letting anyone know the date?

In my opinion, they gain nothing...they could release the album at 3AM on Easter Sunday and everyone of us would be there to buy it...

but the general public needs to have information pounded into their heads to remember what they want...

I agree..... yes, many have heard of chinese democracy.  But most, I'm sure, know little if anything about it.  We live in a materialistic world in the united states, at least.  Most of what we buy is based on what advertising tells us to buy, as sad as it sounds.  People who arn't even interested as of now need to think "hmm I'm in Target, there's the CD section.... oh yeah that GNR album everyone's been talking about is out now isn't it?!?  I'll take a look at it/perhaps buy it."

That's what advertising does here, and that's how it could be done.... within like two weeks time.  I mean.... yeah there would be some attention gained from dropping an album out of nowhere, but that's a 13 million dollar gamble that may not work out.  The record company won't want to take that chance IMO.

Excellent reasoning. I like this line of thought. I mean, I'm hoping like HELL we get the album before then, but this is still a good case for that date.

Hell, this *year* is good at this point.   Whichever week between now and year's end is becoming less and less important, but the sooner the better...

Exactly, that's why I think CD won't come out this year either. If everything was going 100%, then we should have a release date. I think were just fooling ourselves here guys. CD just to drop out of nowhere? Wishful thinking (used to stay sane? :D) Naw, the reason we know NOTHING about it being pressed etc, is because it isn't. So, let's hope we get it, but, don't get your hopes up too much!

I totally agree that "the #1 album in America!" commercial would get more of a response than "coming soon", but in order for it to get to #1 in the first place it does need SOME promotion.  Otherwise there would be a slow response to people buying it in the beginning, followed by more after people realize that it's out there and like the music.  A great single and a few weeks advertising could achieve that, saving the bulk of the money for turning success into a huge success.

Hmmm...nobody is hoping for anything. But at the same time, anything is possible by this band. They have many avenues and options to keep this kind of information under wraps. I'm the last person who would have a definite idea how the final stages of album production/release are; this is GNR we're talking about though.. the last band to do anything in a conventional manner, and the last band to, as we've seen, give a shit what we expect or demand, fans or not. As others have reflected, I don't think they care about people's expectations or hype or anticipation or anything like that. We just have to wait and see.

Look, heres what I think... GNR name is big enough to sell, this is one of the most anticipated releases of ALL TIME!!

the record companys have already lost $$ making it, so why promote a cd thats gonna sell first week anyway??

why does axl want his cd to come out debut at #1 and then quickly drop off???

hes doing the unconventional, drop the cd and let it slowly climb up the charts until it is #1 when more people find out about it.. its brilliant actually

Totally plausible. But "brilliant" is taking it a bit far. I don't think there is a strategy right now. Most likely, the record company wants one thing and Axl wants another. Merck's stuck in the middle. Axl's on tour now, so he's not focusing on CD. If he is, that's awesome. But I don't think that's the case.

You've definitely hit another consideration in the post as to whether CD will come out this year..

Axl is doing shows at the moment, so we don't know exactly how much time he spends on business aspects of things especially where there are gigs that are successive days in a row, and he'd need to rest. Unless in that 1-2 week period prior to the tour kickoff they did indeed put 'the final touches on the album', we can hope that its either in the hands of someone other than Axl (management/label etc), or Axl is indeed taking time during the tour to co-ordinate the release of the album in between shows or on a day off or whatever (but if thats the case they better start making progress a bit faster). thats just my speculation (unless theres a extended break in the tour coming up before December)

but this is a pointless post! every week that the fabled album doesn't come out someone says..."i think its going to come out this week and here's the bullshit to prove it"

please, lock this before it gets any more absurd

Nobody's proving bullshit. It's just ongoing speculation. There's no new information to validate our speculation week to week, and that's all it is.

Why is that I just can't see this album coming out, ever?

because your always negative

It's not coming out this year, they just kept the speculation to propmote the tour. It won't be coming out before March now. Fact.

I for one am starting to lose interest.

Please explain how that is fact. ::)

What is wrong with us specualting?  Right now...that's all we have.  If you don't want to speculate...then don't read this post.

well,gnr don't want to be #1 in first week,they want it after cople months

apetite was number 1 on billboard 1 year after they were realising it

Democracy in China will never happen.

Chinese Democracy will never happen.

Get it?

Axl's trying to be cute and philosophical and stuff.

yeah it's gettin pretty damn close... standard promotion is not possible anymore...

how is this a fact??

Dropping the album out of nowhere would be a huge gamble. ?For the first week, it would be a novelty...BUT if the album doesn't at least crack the top 10, it will be a total joke. ?The media outlets will have a field day with it calling it a total bomb...then the people who didn't buy the album will hear only..."chinese demcracy is a bomb" and think it was because the album sucked and won't buy it.

The album out of nowhere tactic has been tried before...

Remember Limp Bizkit's Undisputable Truth? ?Yeah, neither does anyone else.

Contrary to popular believe this isn't "THE MOST ANTICIPATED ALBUM OF ALL TIME" and will sell itself by it's name alone.. GnR's had alot of churn in it's fanbase and possibly lost selling power in it's name. Have you read the links to other forums people here have posted (Howard Stern, Metallica, Pearl Jam etc) It's close to laughable amongst those outside the GnR Community. "Who is it, just Axl? No Slash" "Is that Buckethead still in it?" etc. We've heard all the comments. Also, while it is high up on the Anticipation scale, do you remember seeing promotion for the final Star Wars film? Yes. LOTR III? Yes. Spiderman 2? Yes.. And those were highly anticipated movies.

And the comparisons to Appetite are useless, a record company has hundreds of new bands each year, some become a success, the majority fail. Therefore, they usually (There are exceptions) cannot select a debut album to promote, so debuts do not get much promotion. They basically throw spaghetti to the wall & see what sticks (Nevermind, PJ 10, Appetite). When a band is a success, these are how the record companies try to make their money back for all those bands who failed (Over 90%). To have a album like CD and think they'll try to go the 'grassroots' way of word-of-mouth is laughable..

Hey look, I'm not saying FACT here, but I feel what I've stated is pretty rational, especially from a business perspective. IMHO I think Nov 21 or 28th will be the release dates, but I will say I'm losing faith in that we haven't heard anything YET. They have shows in NYC soon, and while I don't think he'll announce it DURING the show, I could see them (or at least I hope) issuing a press release the day of.. So it'll be all over the radio, web etc.. Just my guess/hope. If next week goes by without anything, the WOW, I'll have really lost hope. ????



EXACTLY!!? : ok:

well said, pasnow.

Again, I don't disagree with your logic.? However, there are some things to point out:

You can't, in one breath, say CD is a laughing stock album to most of the world and in the next say it's the album the label NEEDS to capitalize on to offset other losses. It's either an album the label needs or it isn't.? It's either well known and anticipated or it's not.

If it is anticipated and well known...no real "paid" promotion, pre-release, is going to raise it's awareness level ("Q" quotient) all THAT much in the general public....the press it's getting now will take care of that, to a large extent.?

If it's not anticipated, then it's just like Appetite: A risk for the label that they can afford to not promote prior to release.? THIS incarnation of GnR might well be considered an unknown entity, by the label, and they MAY be willing to treat it like a debut album.

Now, certainly the "standard" promotional cycle would yield predictable results, to some extent, maybe. Assuming they could overcome the negative stigma associate with the album simply by promoting it.? But there's not evidence that a non-traditional, alternate strategy won't yield results, possibly longer term, and without having to confront the stigma head on (the material, if good, would do that...in fact, it's the ONLY thing that might do it).? We just don't know, because we don't know what's up their sleeves yet.

What you're saying certainly IS rational.? It's just not the ONLY rational opinion to have.? It doesn't seem like you're getting taken to task for believing as you do....what's questioned is why you don't offer the same sort of acceptance of the alternate viewpoints.? They're pretty well reasoned and rational, too.? We won't really know who's right until a) we get word from management/the label about release and see ACTUAL paid promotion going on or b) the album drops.

I'm not sure I follow your logic...

A.  The album isn't a laughing stock...but it is some what of a joke...that doesn't mean the label doesn't want the album to sell well....or by that matter need to re-coup their investment.  Waterworld was a joke before it came out and the studio hyped the crap out of it.  If you invested 13 million into something you would do everything you could to earn your money back.

B.  This is not the most anticipated album of all time.  UYI was more anticipated because more people were waiting for it to come out.  The GNR fanbase has waned considering the soft concert sales.  the Fleetwood Mac reunion album was pretty strongly anticipate with about the same amount of time inbetween releases...AND... it didn't sell all that hot.  FM's reunion concerts were selling out everywhere...GNR's are not.  If Slash was in the band...this would be a whole other story.  But instead we hae Buckethead.  And regardles of his talent, he's not the same draw as Slash.

C.  We already know there's going to be major promotion (ie the Harley ad and the Football game).  No one's saying that alternate strategies are possible.  But dropping the album without promotion has been done and its failed...so no, we don't have to give creedence to that strategy.

Why?!! >:(? ?Cause I'm PASNOW that's why!!? :rant: :rant: :rant:


(j/k Pilferk. Had a rough week at work, needed to vent.)

Do people get a medal and/or a plaque for being a wanna be mod?  Are there courses one can take to become one?

Fuck its where I stand so rp

I have been through this from the beginning and have seen as this whole thing has gone. But I can't imagine at this point, that it will not come on one of these next 6 Tuesdays in light of what Merck said to Rolling Stone. This would completely make GNR look like fucking jackasses if the CD doesn't come this year. I have never heard the things that have just recently been said (and so confidently) before. It has to come this year period. For the first time I will be fed up with their shit if it slips another year after what has been said so sternly by Axl and Merck. Seriously. I have great hope they haven't lied to me, Sebastian Bach, and every motherfucking GNR fan and reader of Rolling Stone online and magazine. Its coming this year. Im a believer. And I believe its coming this year.

Become a good kisser and take pleasure in people hating you :hihi:

Being serious and dedicated should take you a long way. It certainly wouldn't hurt befriending some of the existing mods either, like everything else in this world.

What football game?  ???

I'm believer still too, but I must say that clock ain't got much more than 7 days to go.

For it not to come out this year is a truly horrifying situation. What are we then to believe in the future?

Haha, thanks.  Just seems like half the posts are on how the thread sucks and should be moved and/or deleted. I figure there are plenty of mods along with Jarmo to make that distinction.

I don't want to get banned but two weeks back on Sunday night Football one of the announcers mentioned upcoming acts this season and GNR was one of them.

I'd believe you if you had not stated

"If Slash was in the band...this would be a whole other story.  But instead we hae Buckethead.  And regardles of his talent, he's not the same draw as Slash."

Where's Buckethead?

He's not performing with the band...but his parts are still on the CD as far as we know...

what?? I definitely missed this... what do they mean??

Sounds like BS to me.

Exactly, thank you BKinNYC. I've seen about 6 threads with the exact same thing - some people saying it would be good without promotion, others saying it would be a disaster. It gets a bit tedious talking about the same thing over and over...

It was the same night as the Green Day/U2 performance...

Then don't. Go post in other threads that interest you, or even switch off your computer and go do something less tedious. You make it sound like you are obliged to read and respond.

Yep, fair point.

2 weeks notice??? LOL are they quitting and telling us within that they will put it out with 2 weeks notice?? that's ..just...stupid.. sorry.but come on...   there will be promotion.... if they're on a harley ad, they have MLB partnership... they have been getting great reviews from everyone.. every other person that is going to help promote the album will do it just by talking about it... even the negative publicity they will get from it (v.r. camp bashing axl) come on...... it's bound to be a media bomb.. which will give the album all the promotion it needs..... back in the day they used to get extra negative attention from the media.... way more bad than good..... now it's sort of the opposite..... just ride it out.. it's his career on the line, not ours...

Because no record label would be naive enough to drop an album that has cost this much at this time of year without any prior promotion, and similarly no record company would release such an album before March. No evidence is needed to know this is the way it's going to pan out now. The ship has sailed for 2006.

How do you know if they are even willing to drop another dime on this thing for promotion? With the enormous production costs, they may have cut off for publicity. Record companies do pretty stupid things... just look at Kevin Federline.

i think it will be 2006, if not man, big mistake, too many previous let downs and BS etc etc. it has to be this year or i think this place will go fucking nuts! :no:

You'll be eating crow. ?I hope.

the record companies have already lost MILLIons of dollars so far on chinese democracy.. you think they want to put their loss into more millions with promotion??

they figure to just release it and hope they recoup some of their losses

It's Guns N' Roses. Expect the unexpected.

Right now, i'm guessing it dropping with no publicity. I know it's mind-boggling, but even the biggest masterplan in the world, isn't gonna ramp up publicity this late in the game.

i'm pretty sure it will be out on december 5 2006

I'm not sure but I think 5/12 2006 rings right too. as 1+2+5=8 and I believe in the 8.  :yes:


whatever. they already did so with GH and it seem to have recouped their losses or more.
I guess now GNR is pretty much free.

once again, I dont think axls goal is to have a cd that debuts at #1 because it has huge promotion for it...

my guess is that It will drop sometime during this tour..unexpectadely probably... my guess is wed get an announcement on the morning of, or night before... ?the promotion will start ONCE IT IS OUT.. in an age where most cds debut ?and then drop, how different would it be for axl to have a cd that slowly climbs the charts to #1??

I believe the cd is done.. we have proof that its been mixed, that the coverart was being done last month, that axl has played it... its just a matter of when...

Its GNR it could be out any day without promotion and still going to be on #1  there are millions of people waiting for this, that is why the quote only aplies to other kind of bands but not to this one.

I'm kinda worried about the 19th date.
that would mean that some places of europe/rest of the world would be getting it on 26th, after Xmas, and
I dont think that would quite help the sales in those countries.

In my mind, dec.12th is the last possible date to make a success.
also, it's also a nice number, 12.12.2006.

I am a die hard football fan and I have watched all the Sunday Night games and this is the first I have heard of this. ?You sure you heard it right? ?

Besides 2 weeks back there was no Sunday night game because of the World Series.