Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I got thinking today.

I think this album is an exorcism for Axl in the sense that it's his way of proving once and for all - to HIMSELF - that he can make a successful album without the other guys. I think he's insecure (gathered from interviews he's done and the behavior he's known for) and this is rooted in his childhood. So his art is the way he breaks that, and when he does something people like he feels more confident. Hence after the leaks are well-accepted we get a tour. Note the song that a lot of people - for some reason - didn't seem to like (TWAT) only got played once twice...and others such as Silkworms, Rhiad, etc. were dropped altogether.

Here's the Al Pacino thing. Back in the early '90s Pacino directed two short features, one in which he plays a British criminal who terrorizes a man or something.

Pacino didn't let anyone see them and they are held in a museum (the original copies). Well in 2004 they were finally announced on DVD thanks to the cooperation of Pacino. However, they were then postponed to 2005. Then 2006.

Pacino started doing promotions for the DVDs and he did an interview book with Lawrence Grobelman and they printed ads for the DVD set inside the book itself with a release date of November '06.

Well, right after the book was released the DVDs were once again postponed until mid-'07 for unspecified reasons.

Pacino said in an interview that he sees them as very personal projects and he's almost afraid of releasing them for the public because of this.

I think Axl is the same way.

I think the reason the album has been delayed and re-recorded and whatever has happened is because Axl wants to make a *perfect* album and he wants to please as many as he can and he wants to blow everyone away.

I think '99 was his first attempt and it failed due to Oh My God's bad reaction. He disappeared. Came back in 2002 and got burned. Disappeared.

Came back in '06 with the leaks and - SUCCESS! So he went on tour. And he didn't cancel it this time!

And now we seem closer to the album.

Anyway, I just thought there is a parallel between these two artists and I think their motives for delaying their personal projects is both a fear of rejection and the prospect of allowing something so personal to be freely available.

I think after all these years, CD is probably Axl's most personal work he's ever done and he is probably very aware of this and sensitive of criticism, hence the constant delays.

Just my two cents. Sorry for a long post.

You can fuck my wife, you can eat my food, but YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO MY ALBUM!

I'm sorry how did he get burned in 2002?

Yeah, I understand the fear of not wanting to open yourself up for public scrutiny adn criticism, but therer comes a point when, as an artist, you have to release it.

Of course Axl wants to make the best record he can make. But at some point, the endless tweaking and re-doing, you may end up doing more harm than good. It's possible that the music may lose it "edge" and be so polished all you can see in it is your reflection.

I have no doubt that CD will be a fantastic record. Hopefully the rest of the world agrees with me.

How did he get burned in '02? Well, let's see. The VMAs were a debacle, the tour was mostly a failure (it sold out well in major cities but sold poorly in other areas), there was a major riot, and Clear Channel lost millions because the tour was canceled before it even reached the midpoint. On top of that, critics reviewing shows noted that the band's image was terrible and that Axl's voice was the worst it had ever been. It was a pretty rotten era.

I'm not JUSTIFYING not releasing CD - I'm explaining why I think it's been delayed so many times...I think he's trying to make it as perfect as possible and is totally afraid of failing.

man i thought there was gonna be a pic of axl and al together, shit...

Sorry, I changed the topic header!  ;D

i think russian roulette is right in a way.  i think axl may be kind of freaked after so long...and let's face it, you're right about '02.  he seems to be a pretty complex person, and the last thing he would want to do is release a subpar album, even if it's amazing by everyone else's standards.

now release it already!

Yeah, I was never implying the album IS subpar; but in Axl's mind, if it were to be received poorly, it would really be a major blow to him - emotionally, mentally, etc. He's trying to prove once and for all to the doubters that he "has it" and that he can make a Guns N' Roses album without (mainly) Slash (but also Duff and the gang).

In his mind, I'm sure VR's success (sales-wise) is also present.

Personally I don't care much for VR's album anymore (I did for a while) - it was OK. But there's no denying it sold extremely well and I'm sure this is even more intimidating for Axl knowing that if he DOESN'T sell as many copies as VR, the critics are going to argue this for eternity: "Haha! He didn't even sell as many albums under the GN'R name as VR did!"

You know how the idiots act...

it's all so damn true...and i was somewhat into vr when the album first dropped.  but it doesn't have the staying power, you know.  and i've already heard people saying shit about vr being more current and successful, blah blah blah.  it kills me cuz i know they haven't heard any new gnr...if they had heard it, they would shut up about contraband.

at the end of the day, though, it did sell well, and i bet you're right about axl's awareness of this.

I don't think VR's next album will sell nearly as many copies - it was more of a "novelty" thing...people were curious, they thought "rock was back" and all that nonsense. But if you look at a website like last.fm, Velvet Revolver only has just over 60,000 listeners and that's pretty low for such a group (I thought they'd have near 200,000 to be honest - Audioslave does). I don't think they have staying power, either, unless they do something musically creative with their next one (which is what I'm hoping for). I love Slash so I'm not a hater - it seems like you have to be either an Axl fan or a Slash fan to exist on these forums, and I think that's stupid.

But anyway, my friends hate VR. But then again a lot of them hate GN'R so I guess their opinion doesn't matter.  :hihi:

you may need new friends...gnr intolerance is intolerable  :yes:

and as for vr, i don't think they have staying power unless they try something new...that actually sucks for slash and duff though, cuz they really are just doing their thing and making music.  they seem like cool guys, and they deserve their own success too.  why do people feel the need to take sides?  it can seem like a custody battle sometimes, seriously.

That brings us to the reason why negative topics and posts are being censored and deleted on this board. Merck asks Jarmo to do this, but he doesn't seem to give any reason. Perhaps he wants to put a lid on as much negativity as possible until Axl releases the album so that the man doesn't freak out again and decides to do another 2-3 years of finishing touches.

I was expecting some off the wall ridiculous down right dumb fuckin post


BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


This was actually a great well thought out analogy and post.

I think u make great points and it does seem very possible.

Axl has surrounded himself with the two people he feels most comfortable with the past few years: Merck and Beta. He trusts them probably more than he does anyone else - especially Beta. He was ready to walk off at Donington and when he was back stage she supposedly told him she wouldn't let him leave, and they got in a fight. Presumably their fight right before he bit the security guard had to do with his behavior that night (he was drunk and getting really out of control, I'm ASSUMING they had a fight because she confronted him about this). She's like a mother figure and Merck is kind of defending him against the outside critics.

And yes, I think Merck is carefully maintaining a bubble right now and that's why certain things aren't being discussed.

Do you have any links to that story with Beta? I was on vacation at that time and must have missed it.

Yeah, me too.  :smoking:

But it was a good post, very good! I agree with what was said,  I've been thinking about the same thing myself.  :love:

I feel ya bro

Heat - great movie - great line : ok:

As much as I love Al Pacino...his last few movies have been poop buckets.  Simone especially.  Damn it Al, damn it.

ya but scarface was FANTASTIC!!!! :beer:

I'm talking about the last few stinkers.  Infact the only decent Pacino movie I've seen in the past 4 years was the Recruit with that turd Colin Ferrell.

 ;D

One of my favorite movies of all time...  :peace: :smoking:

De Niro's getting back on track and now Pacino's the one who's starting to "sell out." Back around 2000 people said De Niro was a big sell out and that Pacino would never resort to that, but look at his recent films -- The Recruit, Simone, Two for the Money (seriously, Al! WTF!), and now a really terrible-looking thriller later this year.

I love both of 'em but unfortunately it seems when one is doing good films the other starts resorting to crap. Why can't they both pull themselves together and collaborate again on another epic like Heat?

I know. I miss Al & Bobby, 'cause the real them, the REAL them, hasn't been around in a LONG LONG time.

Sorry it took me a couple days to respond...

Did you mean to say that Axl burned himself? Because all those factors you state are pretty much related to Axl himself, or at least under his direct control. Axl's comeback was what he made it.

I understand that 2002 was a horrible year to be a GNR fan...as was every year since about 94, with the exception of a brief resurgance in 2001-2002, and now we are where we are. I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just that the way you stated that Axl got burned made me think you meant that other people fucked him over, when I doubt that is really the case.

That being said, looks like the time is finally maybe almost upon us, and I'm happy about that. Can't wait for CD< sure it will be a masterpiece.